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What ethical debates would you imagine, or speculate using existing popular sci-fi, and fringe science.

if time travel was possible, i would have to say that to interfere with anything in the past to change anything in the past would result in or could result in a catastrophic time paradox that could undo the very things that hold this world together. but also Einstein said it best in his theory of relativity, the time paradox could also very well just be for the person who caused it in the first place. but we will never know until if such a time where time travel became science fact instead of science fiction.

I can see a review commity for time travel permits. Of course Spider Robinson, and Ben Bova both present some time travel crimes of oppurtunity. So a time police was inevitable in Sci fi, it would take a person with the character equivlent to the Pony Express riders, and Test pilots.
To advance into such speculated frontier.

The "Time Paradox" would be the simple answer of...

If you traveled back in time to change something,then you wouldn't have a reason to go back.If you had no reason to go back to change,then never went back to change it.The paradox of time travel is one of many.Either you change time so much the time line from that point would be different.Or you change something about your past that,that version of you no longer exists...making it impossible to have changed the past because that version of you never existed.

The grandfather paradox is also impossible...you travel back in time and accidentally kill your grandfather before he meets your grandmother..in turn making you never born.So if you never existed...you couldn't have traveled back in time to accidentally kill him.

it would still be relative to the person or the family going back in time. but that is if such a thing could ever be done.

Einsteins theory states that it would be impossible for you to travel back in time and change something.Like the remake of The Time Machine..If his girlfriend had not been murdered he would never have invented the time machine.In essence she had to die before he could create the machine.No matter how many times he went back to save her from dying,she still died.Everything happens for a reason and if you try and change that event,something happens to take its place.At the same time...lets say when you were five you cut your face on a wire fence and you now have a large scar.Years later you discover time travel and want to change that event in your life.You travel back to that moment in time...and you stop yourself from cutting your face...at that second you save yourself,that adult version of you would cease to exist...why> because that version of you never was.Why?? Because he never got cut on the face by the fence.Now..that is the paradox of time travel...because if you never cut your face...you had no reason to travel back in time.

i agree with you on that one. but for every person the paradox would be different which would then only be relative to the person who went back in time..... so in a way i guess you are right with what you are saying.

The preserved time traveler, in sci fi it is statisis, I use a variation using this,
A person lives the number of years in a controled monitored, and fully connected to a sensory recorder, they are then preserved in a "brine" and the seal is opened, of course this is presented in Demolition man , minus the
Memory feed, imagine how disassociated a concioud mind would be, an induced coma.

but that was the same in said movie. he was not aware of how much had changed in the world while he served his time the world was peaceful, war and what not was no longer an issue. this is off topic..... would the resulting paradox from any of the said mention problems or what not cause more then just him or her to not exist it could spiral and unravel the world and history all together. time travel brings to mind a quote i heard, with such power comes great responsibilities as well. (i know i know its from spider man but it fits )

In fiction you can do anything with time travel...in reality no one has broken that barrier so you never know what it could cause.Now watch The Sound of Thunder..that shows what one minor thing changed during time travel causes.In essence the butterfly effect.

Your on the trail DarkWolf, so good to see people speculating, rather then confabulate how possibily it is, all the while denouncing creative speculation as incorrect to " facts". Imagine, this is a Sci- fi sight as well. Not all things speculated need to be psuedo academic, there is no absolutes in fiction.

Sci-fi movies are always using the time travel theory and a paradox of changing the past, that eventually catches up to the future, Whether it is back to the future or shock wave. paradoxs that could erase the existance of life and you itself.

Specualtions from science is always looking to the clues for this. With space travel and going to distant plantes and setting the wrongs of history.

Even today stories of the time travel seems to be privalant. last cse was the plane flying in the Bermuda traingle and entered a circler cloud formation and he swears that he leaped 30 minutes in time.

No clear defining answer on this, yet I ponder that our lives are made up of intertwining circles of points we effect yet take that point away than the effect does not occur changing the balance of the life or situation at that given time.
I' am sure others shall bac this, but all theories of the unknown.

very well put wolf i couldnt have said it better my self. most of the paradoxs would be relative to the subject who caused it and then it would ripple out from him or her like the ripples in a lake when you throw a stone in the lake.

True we would assume that the ripple affect would infact take place if we leaped back in team, for our lives are made up of the situations in which we encountered. take one thing away it would logical change the outcome of the life we have had.

Thats the Butterfly Effect.


The beating of a butterflies wings in Asia could cause the wind to change in Hawaii and it would turn into a tsunami.

Also the movie Butterfly Effect explains what would happen if one person could change something in their past.It would affect them to where they would know the changes more then the people around them but in turn would affect the people around them in sometimes drastic ways.

To revisit the past as an observer only, unseen by current time. The applications that could be concocted, what would you peek at 5 years ago, keeping in mind relative location in the past sharing that of the future ( current departure) All this .. You never know anmbiut unknown things.. can you ever just accept something as creativity, rather then " it could be."

ButterFly effect movie is was an eerie chiller on ones life with the effect of time travel, after shock movie was what would happen with live altering the planet. there is also a Kris kristopherson movie on the ripple effect wish i could rmember the name was a great movie

Darkwolfman love the analogy of the butterfly beating wings.

A pardox in all logic we would assume happens if in fact we could travel back in time, yet would this efffect also occur if we could jump forward in time.

Millennium is the movie Cadre.

Thanks darkWolfMan

Many great posts have given some insight of the pardox of time, and the effects of humans within the realm, but logical thought would be asked if the physical being of a person be altered when jumping through time, we would assume that a great deal of energy would be needed to make this effect happen.

Well in the film The Butterfly Effect the main character had a brain defect that caused him to jump through time.It caused him to have nose bleeds and massive headaches.The more he jumped back and forth and changed things...the worse the damage was.So in essence he was causing damage to time,the people around him and himself.

the butterfly effect is also the basis for most chaos theorist they.... there are never ending ways for a paradox to take shape. it could be a simple change in our history in our past that could change the face of the world.....

Look up the twin effect in relativity theory.
I think wormholes are possible for time travel, and they can fit into Einstein's theory of relativity, because gravity can warp space and time, and this is a great issue to make for time travel in the future.

if I was limited to an etheral presence, able to observe but not be seen, I would read headlines. I would go back and witness events, and then consults with struggling researchers.

Very well said, but we must assume to bend time and space we must have a force greater than what is present in todays society. philedelphia expermint is on that lines, yet science is showing that it is plasible yet we do not have the knowledge or capacity yet to create such distortion to rip the fabric of time.

Maybe there are plasible worm holes located around the world, a theory that has shown some promise, but for us to create that would now be a fictional aspect of science.

So just as the alien beings visiting terra firma, time travel is sci- fi speculation, all the potential paradox.

One in the same, i am nott saying some day we will achieve the technology to do such a feet, But logically at the state we are now, Could not be done. Now if aleins landed tomorrow and gave us the secret ok I shall by it.

rips in times are said to be a phenomun in the mixture of energy and surroundings, worm holes in the essense of scattered rips in time all over the planet, but can we duplicate this no.

SCI-FI dabbler.

there would have to be rules to time travel, like the obvious: no matter how funny the song is resist being your own grandpa. also you may bring only one thing with you there and back, be it clothing, another naked person or an object -- choose wisely. etc.

A possible quarantine would be needed in dome cases. One could not return to a time that could jeopardize the "landing zone".

If time travel will be possible, it already is!

I remember reading about this sect , I just found them quite interesting in their approach to time travel .

The federation of Damanhur is a cult founded in 1977 that claim to be able to time travel .To try and cut a long story short , their experiments are carried out in a time cabin thats driven by devices called "selfic spheres" . The time cabin allows selected members of the community to travel through a multiverse of alternative universes . " One goes by the name of Gorilla Eucalypto . Reports of his many voyages of discovery are available for scrutiny and are found under equally unlikely titles such as " Plant matter brought back by Gorilla" - filed after a trip to the year 2727bc "Gorilla meets local people and eats blueberries"- filed after a jaunt to 4719bc . One fascinating report details Gorila,s journey to the year 61,000 bc where he encountered an advanced civilization carrying out similar experiments to his own . Other members of the community are said to be able to witness these expeditions by taking over the senses of animals in ancient times "

This is a quote from one of the Damanhur,s time travellers called Gattopardo Tek .

"My journey was one of my first ones . We wanted to see how many events we could stimulate by doing an action that was not foreseen in another time period . In this case it was to develop commerce between two villages . So we stole a little boat and put it in another village so the boat builder would build another as a result of the theft . So i found myself on a riverbank in this which , using the spheroselfs, we calculated at 6140 years ago... So I enterd into the body of this primative lady . As i did so , her head became dizzy and she fell down . She fainted for a while because she was overwhelmed . This made it easy for me to take control of the body... The sensation of putting on a body , as you might put on a dress , was incredible - it was like gaining her feelings as i got into her arms" .

Apparently the mission was a great success The boat builder built a new boat and people from the other village also learnt to make boats .

All quotes are from a book , The unexplained, chapter on ancient and modern secret sects .

I just find this facinating that people could be travelling through an inner space , rather that manipulating space/time . And a small group of philosophers could be evolving history in this way . If they did change history , how would we know ? Would the change just be assimilated into our understanding ?

That's just it, there is no real way to know how or what happened if said time traveler did change something.

In relativity theory to be a time traveller you would have to go off in some rocket almost at the speed of light. Moving at speed of light your body clock would slow down, and so would time in your frame of reference. Everybodys frame of reference on Earth, the clocks would run faster. When you return back to Earth, you have been away for many years, and everyone you know would have aged. Clocks slow down at the speed of light and even if you move at half the speed of light, so clocks would slow down half as much. The rate of clocks would slow down depending on how fast your moving.

clocks.... smocks.... dirty socks

the gravity would atomize you if you could travel so fast or "went thru a wormhole"

Theory free thread, Creative Specilation please. Read Dark Wolfs Post For examples.

Now,you have to take into account what could happen IF time travel was possible.I doubt very much it would be like in movies and books.You would have to have a very powerful device to rip a passage way in time and space.Opening a corridor that runs trough the barriers of time and space.While keeping the traveler in one piece.and making sure that he/she doesn't rip into many pieces before settling down in the region of time they set to visit.At the same time,you have to realize that if you were successful in breaching the time/space barrier and traveling forward or backwards in time,what would it be like?

Now,to steal from another movie/book...would it be like The Langdoliers where the past is slowly fading away as it is eaten by large teethed creatures.Where the future slowly comes into existence.Where everything but people are there but the people have to catch up??The past ceases to exist once we leave that point in time and there is no way to travel back.Where the future can't exist til we make it.

What I would love to do is go back like to see what would it be like to see if we chose differant decisions how life would be and the chose what we would do change it or leave it to be happy with our decision if it is what made us who we are.

But if I could change anything would be to change things in my childhood that harmed me now , the trust issues I have could be corrected I think.

Thank you charkiss the application, and utilization is very much part of the creative speculation process. Even if to observe, and not be able to interact with the past would have potential for gaining an over view of past events.

The idea of fringe science is really up to the "beholder", now isn't it?

Of course being a scientist I may not know as much as your high school teacher, Gene Roddenberry or your psychiatrist but I'm willing to bet that in as far as physics is concerned I've got the upper hand. So don't start trying to pull up Wiki links or "facts" from "crystal links" in an attempt to argue lol.

This is NOT my personal opinion. It is what decades of scientific work, including my own, has come up with. It isn't perfect but we have yet to find a better explanation or a way to disprove it.

Of course there are other scientists who have their own ideas/theories but over all, the scientists who would even touch something like time-travel generally agree with the following. Of course different people might use different words but the idea remains the same.

We live in a universe where time, normally, flows in a linear fashion. That is to say there's a past, present and future and that they follow a line, P - Pr -F. Now at the quantum level time starts to do some funny things. Basically there is a point where time(P,Pr,F) are pretty much all connected, but thats really a story for another time.

Now there are also multiple dimensions and realities, in fact each time you do something that requires a choice, left turn or right, go to the store or not etc you actually spin off an alternate/parallel reality that beings with the choice you didn't take. In reality each day there are literally trillions of new universes being created and destroyed...every day.

I had to say all that to say this.

Let us use the Grandfather Paradox (Gf). The time line your GF existed in, before you were born, did not contain you right? So by the action of going to your GF's time you actually create a new, spin-off reality. By just going back into time you have created and entirely different universe.
Now what that means is should you kill your GF you're not killing YOUR GF but the GF of someone who will, now never exist, in an alternate reality. No matter where you go or what you do you can NEVER change the universe you were originally born in. In this reality, Hitler will always be in our past, Lincoln will always have killed and you will never get to pick up gold from the real past of our universe.

Our time-line is set. You might still be able to go back in time and do things but it wont be "our" past.

People can debate all they want, they can give opinions and fantasies (what if's) but the facts as we know it (what I put up there) stand.

Should you want to discuss my reply (any part of it) from a sci-fi or opinion perspective please say so.

I get so annoyed with people trying to hide their opinions as fact, it's dumb, it's wrong and in the end they're the one's who end up looking a fool.

X is an actual scientist and has more knowledge on the topic,compared to our theories and opinions.

Creative Spectulation, don't be afraid, or too proud to say ," I imagine.."

Creative speculation etc is all well in good and without it we couldn't progress. The problem comes when people start thinking that an idea or the speculation is truth when it's not. Fact is fact but speculation has no real authority or strength to bring to bare.

There is a saying that goes "Ignorance is to be willingly stupid. If you deny what is fact then you are in fact, stupid".

Ok please fogive my ignorance here , i,am just trying to understand what X is saying . So if i went back and killed my grand father my time line would still exist , but by going back and changing the past , i would have created another alternative existance in which i could not possibly exist . I,ve heard of this "Many worlds" hypothesis , if you split a deck of cards there exists a alternative dimention for each of the 52 cards .

So such examples as the Baghdad batteries that has suposedly been dated from 200ad and the complex navigtional machien discoverd in 1900 which dated from the first century AD, (two examples of "out of time " objects ) could possibly be explaned , by someone traveling out of their time , and into the same time line , but indoing so creating an alternative reality in which these things exist . So in theory they could return to their own time line and there would be no actual change in history as they know it. And the other reality would come into existance because they effected a change . So is it possible to disprove what the Damanhur cult is doing ?. So by traveling back in time they are in fact creating alternative realities . So is there
no such thing as a time ripple ( sorry not sure if ripples the right word ) , I mean , can our reality not be changed ?

Wow what a great thread , this time things emence , my brain likes it , but sorry if i,ve totally misunderstood.

No worries, and always feel free to ask me questions on here or in private to try and clear somethings up. Your first paragraph is pretty much right, there are alternate worlds for just about everything.

As for the Baghdad batteries I don't think it was anything other than those people progressing along (in our same time-line) and making new discoveries. However, through war, natural disasters and even religious intolerance the future of those progressions (inventions) were stopped and it's only until the past 250 years that we've been able to rediscover these things and move beyond them.

Does that help any?

Hey X:

I know I pretty much explained this in PM's, but what are your thoughts on, if you consider the universe to be an expanding circle, that were it pulled down in the middle (of course, there is no "Center" of the universe, but anyways) would there be a way for that, the bending of the universe, to lead to a way for time travel?


e.g. if you take that whole wormhole thing into account.

;)

Hmm since this is a creative speculating thread, let me see if I can word this out correctly...What if we travel in time back and forth many times in past and future histories, and our very ancient past was very destructive and in order to make a better balanced future for the human species many of the actions led to our present blurry/un-concise theories and beliefs which can hold “the key” for a balanced designed future?...In other words what if all of our creeds, scientific acknowledgements, holy texts, monumental constructions, Astronomical knowledge, and theories are product of a intelligent plan/design by our own race with the ability to travel in time/space looking for the best path of our controlled survival and prevention of self impending doom...really sci-fi shit, good for a movie lol

The fact is time travel has not been acieved. Any " alterative realities" have not been demonstaratable.

Passing ape tulsrion as fact or opinion is rather pompous, as if imagining is so barbaric.

Correct time travel has never been achieved, it is only theriozed that infact it may happen.

Yet therios once more are abundant about the Bermuda traingle and other possible worm holes located through out our world. Yet theorized.

Blah.. Blah.. This is also a Sci-Fi Site, let the whole self important theorizing go.. try if it is not to beneath you to imagine. Exercise your imagination.. "Why So Serious?"

Me seious my friend never, yet beliefs in science fiction or beliefs in myths, what is the difference. We all rationalize the beliefs to hope for fiction or dispell it like garbage.

Hehe No serious persona here.

wasn't it stephen hawking who said something along the lines of "if time travel were possible (or ever achieved at any point in the future) then why haven't we seen any "tourists" from the future yet?"
with einstein's theory about approaching the speed of light slowing and eventually reversing time for the person/object travelling at said speeds, i dont really have a problem with the concept of travelling backwards in time, rather it's the jumping forward that i cannot wrap my brain around.
in other words, "terminator" rules are okay, but "back to the future" rules dont make sense to me. i mean, i can "allow" it for a story telling device, but as an actuality?
i suppose it is possible that at some point in the future of man kind time travel has been realized only either 1 these future tourists are trained to be perfectly blended into present society or 2 there is some reason why it can never be used.
if it were possible to use it strictly for "observational purposes" and never to send a human person or object into the time stream, can you imagine how accurate and advanced history education would be? no more "history books are written by the winners" nonsense. everyone would know how events actually transpired through first hand observation. this would also make catching criminals really easy. we wouldnt only look back at famous historical events, but we could also see, say last tuesday when the bank was robbed and two security men were killed and identify the perpetrators! crimes would be very hard to get away with as well as lying. "where were you last tuesday?" could be confirmed with no doubts. but of course this leads to the question of personal privacy and the abuse of such technology by people of authority.

Well then you will have to calculate your trayectory year, months, minutes and second way before the day or year you want to appear in order to get there as time backsdown as you are on your voyage...like if you want to appear in Jesus times you will have to aim for dinosaurs periods or something.

first off you cant go back before your own date the shock of it would kill you...
and think you did not yet come in to being so you would not be there , so that in it self would do something to time...
as for go forward into time people do that all the time its about moveing to different places on the planet or moving into different time zones.

Not if you have a forcefield repelling those gravitational/pressure counters shocks, dude we are speculating let me dreammm..='(

On my time line future we already have a pill for short trips, and slow release patches for longer trips just like dreaming only from designated observers perspectives. A brain fluid discovery made it all possible.

I'd say that if we had invisibility cloaks or the like (and yes I am a fan of Harry potter lol) then we could use time travel more efficiently. We could see what the cloathing is like and create it before coming back to examine for real. I'd love to go back in time though :)

Now the speculation of time travel and parodox has hit the rams of fictional nonsence.

Forcefields or invisibilty cloaks. I am sure we have tried on all aspects of science to get this sort of technology. yet has failed.

Time travel would put a lot of pressure on the human body and some form of reaction we must face to compensate for this chhallenge.

would be like putting you in a capsale and the next second be on the surface of saturn. now that would be fast. the structure of the body and its innerds would be scrambled.

Let go if formality Cadre, I am rather offended by you saying sci- go speculation is nonsense.. As if imagining is beneath you. Pompous actually pompuos. You are aware that this site now has a Sci- do section? Psuedo fringe science is wash, your just so self impressed saying Hollywood is so fake, man it is so cliché. Imagine, I invited people to post pseudo science claims, find a link. But if " anything is possible" cones up again I will scream bloody foul!

*Throws yellow Flag,*

Specualtion is on this post is the same as well as others. theories based on time travel and the what if"s.

Yes I know this has a sister site for science fiction. I have been there remeber I am in your House.

I was saying I believe more in the theory of projecting in time and the inbalance that may concur, than a clock of invisibilty. Come on I played D&D as a youth..

You called someones post nonsense, as if yours is any less speculation, one based on psuedo- unsupported " research" adaptations of grant grubbing no credetial hacks. Dark wolf, as I stated shows fringe sciences take on the matter very well, I invite you to read in my journal about what is truth, and what is belief.

I did read your Journal, Dabbler quite Exceelent

And I just Stated that I can speculate as much as you or anyone on plasible ideas and fictionally ideas. And yet I digress that looking back and if someone else had posted that you would ask for a link, I rationalize time travel as happening at some time in our society. yet specuaaltaion of invisibilty, to bend the laws of physics and cause invisibilty is a little farther out.

I believe that the only bearer of Time Travel technology, are the Andromedans. If our government ever possessed this technology, would be on behalf of highly advanced beings. There are multiple universes, other worlds, life forms does exist. Scientists have confirmed it. There's a book called 'The 12th Planet' by Zacariah Stitchen. Also another reference source is the dynamic Alex Collier. Brilliant man. So, this technology does exist. Whether we (united states) is in possesion of it is another matter. Just my belief, thats all. Don't try to pick me apart.

Dab, have you seen the movie Primer?
I think you'd like it.

Perception at once shapes the mind and the rules over time. Time however erodes human perception, and then in turn warps the mind. The mind is Capricious, having various effects on perception, time, and the mind itself...with harmony progress is made. Chaos like the mind, can be understood only through scientific process. order, however is only as good as the perception there of. Time is the key that links the two and bears witness thier ebb & flow.

Thinking about X's post on how changes to the past start a new timeline, lets look at the ethics of starting them.

Let's say that terrorists launch a biological weapon. A new incurable disease. Millions die, millions more are suffering. We launch our time machine to the past, find the terrorists and prevent them from launching the disease. We now started a new time line without the disease. But in the old time line people are still dying.

What if the cost of the time machine is very high. We spend public funds on the time machine instead of on a cure. Now our new timeline is healthy, but the in the old timeline we spent all our funds on the time machine instead of on a cure.

Could we live with ourselves, knowing that our son or daughter is still dying a horrible death in the other timeline, while we are perfectly save in this one.

Is it right that we save our new selves at the cost of our old selves. What dicotomy do we present to ourlselves knowing that we, ourselves, are dying in the old timeline while living in this one. Can we accept it. What do the world's religions say about this.

Could we prosecute the leaders of this effort, since instead of finding a cure, they spent the money on a time machine and left millions to die.

A slightly different angle. Lets look at international policy similar to our current nuclear policy of non-proliferation.

If the countries that have time machines band together as the nuclear powers have to keep nuclear weapons from proliferating, would we try to keep nations from developing their own time machines.

What if time machines are used as weapons themselves. Going back in time to kill leaders or otherwise attack other countries. We would probably end up with a timemachine deterrent policy just like we did with nuclear weapons. Would we have a time machine arms race?

Yet looking at that theroy of alternate timelines, we would assume their would not be a second timeline going on the samer time as us.

So leaping back in time we would not have two times at one given point, so altering the time line would infact create a new line and end the one previously know. Thse are therios and speculation on pardox results.

Watch sound of thunder great movie of pardox and the time travels of the future. By setting the point the time must go forward and not split, than two of us would be living different lives at the same given point.

The now defunct TV show 7 Days is a good example of limited time travel.You can only go back in time seven days...the traveler is the only one that realizes the time travel and the changes he makes afterwords.The subject of the thread was originally the scientific and ethical thoughts on time travel and the paradoxes of said travel.

Instead of throwing in fantasy and science fiction terms and ideas of possible time travel,we should stick to the science fact ideas.Yes everyone has their own opinions on the topic and want to share them...but at least use known facts on the subject and not "Harry Potter" fantasy gibberish.

This subject has been a passion of mine since childhood and I take everything I say and share to heart.I have no time for the off the top of your head crap.Alternate realities are possible,according to actual scientists in the field.Every step you take is an action,every thing you decide to do or not do is an action.You decide to cross the street and get hit by a car,is one action.You decide to not walk across the street is another action.Watch the movie Next...he can see all the possible actions he takes and what happens because of each action.

Every choice we make has an affect on the world around us...no matter if the choices are good or bad.We all have an affect on everyone else as well.IF and that is a big IF...if we could break the space/time barrier and actually travel through time.Besides the paradox of time travel...what would it do to the planet and everything on it?Would it be like The Sound of Thunder...who knows...but would it rip the frabric of time/space apart.

You are right darkwolfman, but depending on the jump if the fabric of time is not torn, would effects change the outcome of the world as we know it,

We Know every action there in some way has to have a similiar or oppisite reaction. True. changing the past would change the futre as we know. and changing the future would change the points from there on.

I do think the fabric of time would shred slowly causing a chain reaction through out we know as time. to a multiple disaster of everything that is and maybe what was. a pool effect forward and back.

Technology being sent to the past is a matter of material artifacts being left in a time stream, for example a flake of paint containing an alloy used in cloaking technology to cloak the time machine. Those paint chips are found in the interevened tinestream, and sets a reverse engineering project to duplicate that alloy paint that permits an object to appear invisible. Years later a team develops a time machine, and contacts the manufacter of the cloaking paint. So time steams could be speculated to over lap, and what of linear models of time, vrs. Cycle models? The universe is cyclical Correct?

i think that the question has to be asked:
would you really want to control time?
because if you didn't control it, why would you want to mess with it? also, think about the reasons behind the desire to want to change time. i think that if you were to really think about it, you don't want to change time. there are too many things involved, too many things to account for. there are good things that happened that might be reversed because of the change. i think that most people just wish things wouldn't have happened the way they did, but is that such a bad thing? how are we to learn if we don't make any mistakes?

Come to think of it most people I know that profess to have no regrets, really want time travel to be applicable theory. I find creative spectulation much more believable then all the psuedo junk science pitches combine, and millions if sci- fi fans support my belief. I will day the few applied scientist that speculate with fringe science ( not to be confused with junk science) comment on time travel it is rather concise, and free of hyperbole, and psuedo scientifclic jargon.

Many travel in and out of time frequently. I live in Southern California and someone in England or Australia are ahead in time. If we fly from one place to the other we either travel forward in time or back in time. It is small amounts, a couple of days or a number of hours. I would guess in my opinion a paradox wouldn't be the major worry but health options. There is a suggestion due to "lag" that someone might get very ill. Perhaps your paradox might be death.

I am confused about what type of answers you are looking for because I don't understand the difference of your response:

Theory signals 'speculation'

speculation: the contemplation or consideration of some subject

Theory: dictionary.com
6. Contemplation or speculation

Could you clarify?

Whether you want to go to 1920 or to 2009 April 11, from where I am, I am in April 9. I see no difference in traveling forward or backward for two days as opposed to a hundred years...time is time. This is a consideration. If I do something where I attempt to change something where you are in a two day period there should still be an effect. This makes history dates moot because they could only relate to where they actually happened and wouldn't be viable in other countries that are two days ahead or hours, etc. ie, Australia/United States. There is a difference in time. We do travel in time zones but why do we have them because in different areas of the earth time is different. I feel to be able to solve the problem of time travel one must start small. If you were in Australia and travel back to April 9, what you would be experiencing and what I am experiencing would be different. This is inherently another problem because time is not the same everywhere. I don't think I need to be told what the thread is about, this is a paradox of difference on a small scale which must be solved before anyone can think of traveling within time. Experiencing things within time I believe would be different depending on the starting point because it would not be the same time on returning as somewhere else. I think perhaps someone might find a way to do something similar to remote viewing but physically, that remains to be seen. It is an interesting topic though.

Traveling through time zones isn't time travel, sheesh. Official Times Zones were designed, at first, to help regulate rail travel and commerce and serve a similar purpose today. Times Zones (and for that matter Day-Light Savings etc) have no other legitimacy than what each national governments' organisations of standards and measures say.

Going from New York to Sydney is no more time travel than going from your front door to a local deli. The only time travel that has gone on is that of the passage of linear, standard, time (with respect to relativity of course). Meaning, it's not time travel (in the sense that's being discussed) if the only time that has passed is each moment, be it a second or a week.

To "travel through time" is go against linear time. As for paradoxes as I and any number of other scientists have said before they can't and don't exist. We now know that violating causality isn't possible and that to travel back in time is to create an altered time/reality. In other words, you CAN NOT travel back to a specific time that has already occurred. The very act of doing so changes the time-line and will always prevent you from going to the actual period. Just because "Stargate" does it doesn't mean it's real.
Traveling to the future is a bit different but not with respect to the idea of paradoxes.

Also, as a note, temporal science is not a fringe science. Causality, relativity, the study of black holes, the Big Bang and how fast your car goes all play into and have a part in the science of time. I get so tired of hearing opinions portrayed as fact especially when they come from sci-fi or people who haven't taken a single course in physics and passed.
If something is an opinion state it as such and don't try to pass it off as anything else.

well time travel is natural for our 4th dimension in dream or in astral. it is uncontroled but with practice it can be controlled. the vision itself s part of time travel or breaking sphere. nostrademos is the example of debate and time travel.

If you wish to time travel. you dream of time travel. :)

Coming from Xzavier, I have faith in his logic and agree with his post.

Yet the mind and Tv has put these ideas in the mind of us and even scientists, on experimenting with th fact of traveling to distant planets at phenomanl rates. A purpose of travel without the possibility of aging while this travel is going on.

my belief, sound or not is that some accurence would be caused, whether minor or not. much like a boat through the water or a plane breaking the sound barrier. something at that high rate of speed would or could happen.

Cad- Thank you for your confidence.

The possibility of time travel is very real and possible however some of the main questions are about possible paradoxes. My point is simply that there isn't much need for concern about them since, as far as we know, they can't happen.

As for your analogy of slipping through water that's a fairly accurate way of thinking about it and a common thought among folks like Einstein and Michio Kaku. Especially when talking along the lines of time and multiple dimensions, not just time itself.

The time travel can be seen in both either in quantum science or in specter of wormihole. wormiholes makes mockery of lightspeed and this meter of counting distance or time... if controlled wormihole created, it can shift the thing in any part of universe as well as time passage. its diagraam is matching with the symbole of infinity. its such a speedy that one can go to other part of gallaxy or universe or across the universe into parallel universes in a part of moment and even can throw s to padt or future of same place. wormihole is the name of passage created in the spheres of unverse. you can say they are stargate. And wormholes long ago invented at the time of einstain chandrashekhar and there are many civilization ancient time human used to make these stargate to meet them. Its even mentioned in Indian epics.

if someone said this, im sorry,
but you cant have paradoxes. if you go back in time and kill your mom when she was preggers with you, you just changed the time line your currently in. if you go back to your own time, nothing will have changed....in your time line. obviously you were born or you wouldnt be alive.
there would be infinite numbers of time lines due to that very thing.
~W~

Your speaking in absolutes LW.

You may go back to time travel but can't change any thing against the formulation of the things and happening written and formulated on the first organ came out of point zero as begining or birth of unvrse and the formulation is on each matter and things and even prana too is controlled by cause and effect.

Thanks I just need to be able to read the fine print, that is nifty, and applicable.

Well because of the cause and effect factor, I'd rather not ever time travel. Go far enough back in time, the most microscopic change could effect our present in ways we could not imagine. Like if we go back to the time of the dinosaurs and accidentally kill a small animal, we might return to find that humans never came to be.

If time travel is real then, why couldn't go back into time and bring along a recording type of device and docoument the event, then go back to where he/she came and check to see if any changes were made and see the recording device. THEN! if the person whent back abit more past the first time he/she whent back in to the past recorded the same event twice, then secretly used the machine the first time the person whent forward to the future. So! If by then the first time machine the person used the second time he whent back to the past would affect the future? What about the first time the person whent back and used the second machine to go foward. If by those two events the two people that are really one person, would a time travel would result in a paradox of sorts? (If you could understand what I wrote above without being confused)

its said that the further out into space you travel away from earth the further back in time you will go, i wonder if the key to time travel into the future if its even possible isnt in traveling into the quantum demention of space.

Then the real question should be asked first would be: What is time travel?

If it is possible or was possible I would have to say that it would be best not to mess with such a dangerous thing.

Too many things could result from abuse or mistake.

much like any other forms of science or bio, abuse and mis use could always result. yet we as humans push the limits and sometimes things do go array.

i agree with obsidian fury it would undo everything in this world. i think that we as man aren't meant to time travel.

Cadrewolf, what you would see as a result is government regulation of time travel. Could you imagine the discussions in Congress about time travel.

- Let's make it leagal and tax it.
- It should be stopped, it is immoral.
- Everyone should be able to time travel. We should subsidize time travel for the masses.
- The goverment should regulate it.
- Extremely large time travel organizations may be too big to fail. We will have to subsidize them to keep the world spacetime continuum intact.
- Turn in your old time travel machine and get a $4,500 credit towards a new one that doesn't affect the timespace continuum as much. Only thing is you have to do it by Nov 1st, and only with a licensed dealer that is signed up to provide the $4500 credit, and then only towards a brand new one.

We will probably end up with a time travel non-proliferation treaty. Those countries that attempt to develop time travel that don't have it already would face economic sanctions.

I am still waiting in line at the Time Travel License Dept.

I think it would be rather insightful to time travel but like many here I believe if you did something to try to change the past then it could affect the present, not just yours but everyone's.

I agree Dab that you could only observe from afar and maybe learn something to prevent possible mistakes in the future.

I think some of the other issues would be econonic and business related.

Gambling would take on a whole new slant. If you could jump forward in time to determine the winning lottery numbers you could win. Except everyone else will be doing the same thing. Instead of winning $100 million, you might win $1.

You could travel a year in advance at a time and buy or not buy home owners insurance. For that matter any type of insurance. If find a need to file a claim, you would travel back and buy the insurance. I would guess the actuaries would find a way to account for that.

The stock market would sure be different. Or maybe not. If stock traders were continually travelling forward in time to determine stock prices, so would the management of the companies. The management may go back and change their business strategies, thereby changing the stock price in the future. It would be an arms race between investors, brokers and management.

10241024..I do think if this happened it would literally end the world as it would totally crumble economically and thus warring would result from neighbor to neighbor and country to country. Total Chaos would ensue.

Ethics, into the future to simply read the obituaries.

Once you return to your departure time you would have however long to intervene in the cause of death.

but then again Dab you are changing the future and if it is that person's time to go do you not think if that is the way in which you believe that it would still happen regardless of how much you tried to intervene?

it also allows for the potential case scenerio of you or another relative person becoming the replacement obituary.

I could see how a holographic ( AL in Quantum Leap) would be least potentiallt intusive on " The Time Stream".

All in all this is Sci- Fi spectulation. A more serious thread would disect such
spectulations.

You have an interesting paradox Dab. We some some self destructive behavior now and people don't act in the present to change it. Would they bother to act in the past.

Some examples may be drug and alcohol addiction, over eating and obesity, smoking and lung cancer, sunbathing and skin cancer. How many people change their behavior even when they know the results of their actions. Granted that affecting change in some behavior is much more difficult than others.

But in general, what would someone go back to change. If they were dying of lung cancer, would they go back in time 30 years and stop smoking?

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