I have been fascinated with Nephilim since I was very young, even before the Prophesy movies. I'm not sure why. I have been drawn to them. Nearly every culture has some mention of Nephilim. According to a number of Bible passages, Nephilim were Earthbound Angels born to human mothers. They were brutal, giant beings of incredible strength and power as well as the human gift of free will. But, what if they really did exist? What happened to them? One belief is that the Titans were Nephilim and through inbreeding, they spawned children (the Gods) of weaker power which eventually overpowered their parents by vast numbers alone. Like those who came before, the Gods also took to incest as well as mating with humans. In time, the Gods power grew thinner and thinner till they were were no more. Their ancestors continue to survive, some possessing unique abilities, but nothing compared to the Titans and the Gods. I would love to hear what you think?
I have heard of them before, and I believe that they still do exsist, though their abilities have probably dropped dramatically to fit in better with the close- minded society we have today.
Here is some more information about the Nephilim on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
There's two great book that talks about then from a biblical stand point through the book of Enoch. The other book is called Fallen Angels.
The amount of misinformation and disinformation on this topic is almost as pervasive as it is regarding the term "vampire."
The "Nephilim," the actual word used in Genesis 6:4 (not "Giants"), is derived from the Hebrew "naphal" meaning "to fall." Thus there is no correlation at all between "nephilim" and "giants." Additionally, there is still much uncertainty whether the term "nephilim" refers to the original group of males who descended and mated with Human females, or whether this term also refers to their descendants.
As for the demonizations of both they and their descendants... yet again, all such contradict the earliest Biblical statement regarding them in which they are specifically called "mighty men as of old, men of renown", which describes them all in quite glowingly positive terms.
As for their descendants... yes, they are indeed with us still.
- Upir'
I want to bring an interesting visualization(article) of an individual in her realization of the topic given here, It is not completely viable in some direction, its reasonable for a un-awared or uninformed individual about certain impractical events outside the mainstream datum or the interpretational hystory, but it has validity in various conclusions in my understanding of few links in her reasoning.
http://alternativeapproaches.com/pnuke1/Article1612.html
*Chuckles* Here we go again, excuse the banter.
This next response was posted by a former member known as ~Revenous~, taken directly from a post this member has in the forum thread entitled Biblical Vampires? .
"The story of the Nephilim is chronicled more fully in the Book of Enoch (part of Ethiopian biblical canon). Enoch, as well as Jubilees, connects the origin of the Nephilim with the fallen angels, and in particular with the Grigori (watchers). Samyaza, an angel of high rank, is described as leading a rebel sect of angels in a descent to earth to have sexual intercourse with human females:
And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it...
According to these texts, the fallen angels who begat the Nephilim were cast into Tartarus/Gehenna, a place of 'total darkness'. However, Jubilees also states that God granted ten percent of the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim to remain after the flood, as demons, to try to lead the human race astray (through idolatry, the occult, etc.) until the final Judgment.
In addition to Enoch, the Book of Jubilees (7:21-25) also states that ridding the Earth of these Nephilim was one of God's purposes for flooding the Earth in Noah's time. The Biblical reference to Noah being "perfect in his generations" may have referred to his having a clean, Nephilim-free bloodline, although it may be inferred that there was more diversity among his three daughters-in law.
These works describe the Nephilim as being evil giants.
There are also allusions to these descendants in the deuterocanonical books of Judith, Sirach, Baruch, 3 Maccabees, and Wisdom of Solomon.
Some individuals and groups, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, St. Augustine, John Calvin, and the Latter-day Saints, take the view of Genesis 6:2 that the "Angels" who fathered the Nephilim referred to certain human males from the lineage of Seth, who were called sons of God probably in reference to their being formerly in a covenantal relationship with Yahweh (cf. Deuteronomy 14:1; 32:5); according to these sources, these men had begun to pursue bodily interests, and so took wives of the daughters of men, i.e., those who were descended from Cain. Not only is this unequivocally stated in Ethiopian Orthodox versions of I Enoch and Jubilees, but this is also the view presented in a few extra-Biblical, yet ancient works, particularly the Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan. In these sources, these offspring of Seth were said to have disobeyed God, by breeding with the Cainites and producing wicked children "who were all unlike", thus angering God into bringing about the Deluge.
~http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim~
Sounds more like aliens that were "seamed" as coming from heavens above directed as Nephilim=" the fallen ones/giants" in sacred text, mixed by intercourse with the "daughters of God" and made the hybrid race of watchers upon Earth ( with vampiric characteristics of Rephaim="the dead ones")..."
I would read through the thread itself to gain a better perspective regarding said "Nephilim. ~Upir~ offers some wonderful insight within the thread.
Since this site is a reference piece in regards to vampire bibliography, I would check other threads as well to see if they have useful information since this subject tends to come up quite often within the forum.
Yes indeed -Soulshroude, quite insightful approach. The mixing of races did made a man of renown, The watchers are in fact that ( watch over the race), I have said this somewhere else, they look like us, they are not like us, we derive from them, and the other hybrids, derive from that event. The Gods wrath wasn't the direction of the universal being assimilated in modern Abrahamic rootings, They are not god but seamed as one for the mysticism involved in the technology to well instruct a new species in the fundamental way of erect a civilization and the understanding of their creation, furthermore they are not gods but assimilated as such for the tasks involved in the period, although their are more "higher beings" involved in the creation of human missions in the world, and is required the other "alien" crafts to mechanize the spiritual dimension involved in this creation. The flood was the cleansing of the master plan and of us all, by Enlil mission with us( the creation of a new inferior race to execute the labor required in the mining, since animals nor our natural hominids werent capable), the plan was the use of the humans until it was to hard to handle, so it came down faster than anticipated as some "higher beings" or "angels" (whichever fits your interpretation) viewed the mission a failure given that the bloodline was getting tainted by the orders(oath) of not to mix with humans were broken, and he did not wanted the humans to have the same level of divinity and traits, not equality as in his creation with a singular purpose, so the plan was executed( to eliminate all even the watchers). But we were seen as potential group, among Enki and others followers so they spared the human bloodline via a family not adherent to the events ocurring in this popularized version of Noah's story and the intermixing of mortal and immortal race, which in fact was the same story in Sumerian texts in Gilgamesh( later Sumerian king) flood myth. Afterward it may seem that Utnapishtim later was granted with immortality by the gods, and it was passed through generations to follow, people who lived hundred to a thousand years or longer yet it has nothing to do with the hybrids which some still were around even after the disastrous event. They weren't giants, the "gods" were giants, the hybrids were relative to us, in some translations Nephilim were interpreted as - "Taller", "powerful", "Champion" or "Stronger", possibly all of the above. I goes way more,so I will no longer bore you more, as I focus on explaining the subject placed on topic.
Well I dont know much on the subject, however I have in my possession a book that deals with ghost stories and other related things in western New York. In that book it says that they found skeletons that where as tall as 9 to 12 feet in height and were clearly human. It is a debate whether they are from a creature like bigfoot or that they are possibably from something from the bible. I am not at home other wise I would give the title of the book. I will add it as soon as I get a chance.
I prefer my "angels" to be asexual. Not as good of a story, no drama, but more logical than some wayward beings with powers in their penises who couldn't resist the nasty neanderthals, or more likely their lustful missing link predecessors. Just cause someone imagined it and wrote it down doesn't make it any more true than the bible, the koran, or a fortune cookie.
Bloodmother -
Agreed... were the stories of the "Nephilim" only the imaginings of a single culture.
However, when extremely similar accounts are found in unrelated cultures worldwide (e.g., Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, as well as North and South America) of a small group of Caucasian-looking men with blue eyes and beards having visited those cultures, taught them the same skills and philosophy, and exhibited this identical (or very similar) trait of marrying and mating Human females and, with them, siring children... well, it's not quite so easy to dismiss all such as coincidentally imaginings.
Should such be of interest to you and/or others, I highly recommend Graham Hancock's wonderful book on exactly this subject: "Footprints of the Gods". This provides a wonderful primer on the topic of the similar and, at times, near-identical accounts of this small group of men who descended from the skies anciently and first founded most if not all of the world's most prolific civilizations. And you can pick it up used for less than $4.00, at present.
It is not the point of this entry to disrespect your view nor to dissuade you from your opinion, of course. I am simply providing a bit more information of which you might not have been previously aware. But... to each their own, of course.
- Upir'
The book's correct title is "Fingerprints of the Gods"...
... my bad.
- Upir'
I used to have a copy of the book, Upir, and while I enjoyed it on a certain level, it didn't convince me any more than reading Bullfinch's Mythology convinced me that there were indeed Gods and Goddesses on Mount Olympus.
More convincing is recent research on ancient trade routes. Our predecessors traveled far more widely than we would have thought possible. I'll post links to this info later.
The evidence comes from burial sites containing non-indiginous seeds, animal bones, and the pottery (style and markings). There were also land bridges that could have made the process easier. Neanderthals traded widely, kept on walking. Stories were shared.
Go here and click on the map for a larger view of ancient trade routes:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/trade/hd_trade.htm
"Long-distance trade played a major role in the cultural, religious, and artistic exchanges that took place between the major centers of civilization in Europe and Asia during antiquity. Some of these trade routes had been in use for centuries, but by the beginning of the first century A.D., merchants, diplomats, and travelers could (in theory) cross the ancient world from Britain and Spain in the west to China and Japan in the east."
Since an oral tradition of storytelling continues to this day, I think it's reasonable to assume that the same stories were passed to new societies, who then added their own colorful nuances to them.
DNA was extracted from the Neandertal-type specimen found in 1856 in western Germany. By sequencing clones from short overlapping PCR products, a hitherto unknown mitochondrial (mt) DNA sequence was determined. Multiple controls indicate that this sequence is endogenous to the fossil. Sequence comparisons with human mtDNA sequences, as well as phylogenetic analyses, show that the Neandertal sequence falls outside the variation of modern humans. Furthermore, the age of the common ancestor of the Neandertal and modern human mtDNAs is estimated to be four times greater than that of the common ancestor of human mtDNAs. This suggests that Neandertals went extinct without contributing mtDNA to modern humans
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pbio.0020057
Yet is inconclusive by some "variant" explanation of this, but is quite humorous how they find more traits on a earlier hominid for both species link to (homo erectus) than on a sub specie in our own "genus" or genetic "family" in some of scientist approach to this scientific inquiry. So it remounts either the H. Neanderthanelesis were to be our currency as natural hominids in this earth, or something happened in the intermediary process and intermixing early hominids with alien genes to create H. Sapiens, while scientist debate on Neanderthals' being another genetic make up not so directly similar to H.Sapiens but both holding genetic relations with H. Erectus, the information is not out there for the holding. But Neanderthals' weren't that capable (intellectually) of executing an specific mandatory task other than natural reactions of survival and protection, so making a civilization and exchanging information (As Bloodmother theorized) wasn't on the natural programing of this group, The creation of a new species with conscience is made by manipulating the DNA of alien and H.Erectus possibly if not H. Ergaster, so we are made by "image and liking" in terms of physical proportions yet the natural hominids share a great part in our primitive reactionaries as well as why our "Daughters of men" are seem as "sexy" to them hehe. This chain of event led the H.Neanderthals' to extinction. We as natural event became part of an binary hand of creation for a subpurpose.
(To whomsoever might be monitoring this thread... please delete my prior entry and keep this one.)
Deleted previous entry. ~Bones
Bloodmother -
Those are excellent points and not without precedent; there are other examples... many in fact... in which one culture's beliefs, myths, and values are amalgamated into others. Thus, such is certainly a distinct possibility.
There are, however, empirical scientific evidences that also lend credence to the theory of the sudden arrival anciently of this small group of blue-eyed, light-haired males who taught Humankind, established the first of Earth's civilizations, and mated with Human females... while in possession also of the same "insatiable" sexual capacity only females are known to possess.
Should this not be known to some, the Sumerian Annunaki (the Sumerian equivalent of the Canaanite Nephilim) were depicted as having blue eyes, and such was apparently considered such a significant trait to them alone that in statues made of them, the Sumerians exaggerated the size of the eyes and used lapis lazuli stones to specifically accentuate the blue of their eyes:
http://www.book-of-thoth.com/ftopicp-237285.html
http://www.iranian.com/History/2005/March/Gutians/Images/sumer_asmos_blueeyesa.jpg
In ancient Egypt, also, the Wedjat Eye of Horus was depicted as, again, blue in color.
Thus, blue eyes was considered a trait specific to the Annunaki / Nephilim.
Well... only last year, In January 2008, the "The American Journal of Human Genetics", Volume 82, Issue 2, 424-431, published the DNA results of a new study that revealed for the first time ever the scientific origins of blue eyes.
As published also in many leading scientific magazines worldwide, the results of the study are as follows:
The mutations responsible for blue eye colour most likely originate from the northwest part of the Black Sea region, where the great agricultural migration of the northern part of Europe took place in the Neolithic periods about 6,000 to 10,000 years ago," the researchers report in the journal Human Genetics.
(Dr.) Eiberg said that brown is the "default" colour for human eyes which results from a buildup of the dark skin pigment, melanin. However, in northern Europe a mutation arose in a gene known as OCA2 that disrupted melanin production in the iris and caused it to become blue.
"From this we can conclude that all blue-eyed individuals are linked to the same ancestor. They have all inherited the same switch at exactly the same spot in their DNA."
Men and women with blue eyes have almost exactly the same genetic sequence in the part of the DNA responsible for eye colour. However, brown-eyed people, by contrast, have a considerable amount of individual variation in that area of DNA.
Eiberg has analyzed the DNA of about 800 people with blue eyes, ranging from fair-skinned, blond-haired Scandinavians to dark-skinned, blue-eyed people living in Turkey and Jordan.
"All of them, apart from possibly one exception, had exactly the same DNA sequence in the region of the OCA2 gene. This to me indicates very strongly that there must have been a single, common ancestor of all these people."
- http://www.thespec.com/News/CanadaWorld/article/317579
I personally emailed Dr. Eiberg almost a year ago and asked him whether the DNA evidence only supported his sudden mutation theory... or if likewise the evidence might support the theory that a small group of blue-eyed individuals might have suddenly arrived to the northwest region of the Black Sea between 6,000-10,000 years ago and began mating with the indigenous populations there.
According to Dr. Eiberg, the evidence supported both theories equally. As he opined, "that would be the only other possible theory for such a sudden appearance of a trait never seen before in the genetic record," he replied. He then proceeded to further state that if I was going to forward such a theory, it would need to be explained from where such blue-eyed individuals might have arrived to that area. As he pointed out, they would have had to suddenly arrive from some place as yet undiscovered.
Absolutely correct, of course; so they would.
And yet... why the northwestern shores of the Black Sea? This location is neither Sumer nor Egypt nor Canaan. However... this site is the most scientifically considered location of the ancient "Great Deluge" recorded in Genesis chapter 6... not coincidentally the same chapter in which the "Nephilim" were first reported as having descended immediately prior to that very flood.
The Black Sea Flood has been dated to.... 8,000 BCE, smack dab in the timeframe given in the blue-eye DNA evidence as the arrival (either by sudden mutation or... the sudden arrival of a small group of blue-eyed persons into the gene pool) of blue eyes here on Earth.
As for their "insatiable" sexuality being equal to that of females... simply research the Sumerian "Hieros Gamos" ceremony enacted once a year for approximately 2,000 years, which was how Sumer selected its kings... and during which the male heir apparent was required to demonstrate that which, for a normal male, would have been impossible: he had to orgasm "50 times" non-stop so as to prove himself "worthy" as an actual descendant of the original "Annunaki." As this would have been impossible for a normal male... yet as this was how Sumer selected its kings and required this trait of them to do so... well, this was obviously not mythology if actually enacted annually.
While the argument can continue on and on... and as we can never definitively know for sure... yet my only point is to indicate that we do have quite a bit of growing scientific evidence that lends credence to the common myths found in so many world cultures of those alternately called "Nephilim," "Annunaki," Watchers, Fallen Angels, etc.
- Upir'
Oh... and by the by... anyone looking at a map will quickly notice that the "...northwest part of the Black Sea region" is, in fact, occupied by that area of Romania formerly known as ... Transylvania.
And yes, should it have been forgotten, in the original mythology of the Slavic cultures, blue eyes as well as an "insatiable sexual appetite" were two of the most key traits originally ascribed to the Slavic "Vampire."
Quite a growing list of coincidences for something that is just... mythology. ;)
- Upir'
Ahhh exquisite point UpirLikhyj; I believe you have found something interesting that stems more than most individual think;
Thus this doesn't mean everyone is part of the royal bloodline, It just assimilate a trait we all hold inside but others catch from a range of DNA gene pool within ancestors- from the process of creating the new creature, Us. Not stemming that blue-eyed people are more related to them than other chromatic colors, that is an error well made by Adolf Hitler himself in the conveyance of re-establishing the Arian race of the pure race.
Let me put it like this, eye chromatic blue isn't the only trait the individual DNA can catch or activate in that individual gene pool structure. Some can in fact activate: the eye color, other can have the sexual trait, others can acquire special abilities (mental), others can be tall-very tall, others can activate the blood drinking need, and they are all humans, thats when individual think they have a relation with this "vampire" image (when it all comes to be a specific trait passed and activated in genetics for that individual). of hybrids,- which are in fact the described as "vampiric" by many traits. This is only a genetic bits of our relations between early hominid and them.
You can say that many of the diagnostics of various interesting diseases are activation of strong genes that could be awakened or activated in various generations later and their chemical imbalances could be treated as a disease as well.
Nephilims in some cultures believed to be the children of the fallen and of the human race. The mothers were said to have died giving birth to them because of how brutal the birth was.
They walk around like any of us until the 18th birthday then they receive what some people to believe to be their powers they still walk around like any of us but the only difference is they have wings, but unknown to the human eyes
Some believe them to be from the sons of god and the daughters of man. As said in the bible. They were strong and had superhuman strength but think about it your a half breed who breeds with more humans the superhuman stregnth would soon die down. Because that specific gene in your blood gets watered down. Though that gene could still arise as are the recessive genes. This would be unknown to the human he would just assume he had some kind of ability. The children are usually beautiful, smart and quite strong.
They could look like one of us and wed never know
Agh, ~Upir~ damnit man! I rather loathe it when you hit the nail on the head at times... Since my research into "conspiracy theory" regarding said specie, I have been thrown into a sort of loop where historic fact mixes with falacy. And yet, neither are contradicting the other. They both seem to support the same beginning, and that would be the "fallen from the sky" statement that is oft times used.
Now if said blue eyed species does indeed still exist, and we all know it does. By taking a look at the blonde blue eyed humans we have in society at this time (not nessessarily alluding to any of them being vampire mind you), who is to say that they are not far removed from said specie?
As far as the conspiracy theory goes, it could be interpreted that an alien race ( follow me here) actually introduced humans to the world via DNA manipulation and put them on Earth for the sake of a sort of "testing ground." This would be in tune with the myth of the two brothers... Enki and Enlil which in Nibiruan, an alien race means God and Lucifer respectively, but is changed accordingly by the religions of human kind to said people such as the Egyptians - Osiris and Set, Greek - Zues and Poseidon, Roman - Jupiter and Neptune, Hindi - Vishnu and Shiva etc.
Just has I have researched, more and more information pertaining to the same subject, but with differant variant backgrounds seem to always come to the same conclusion. That the Nephilim are not of this Earth, quite literally in all texts and translations and not just metaphorically.
wonders when i was a child my eyes where light blue and white blonde hair, but has i grew into a teen my eyes deepend in color and my hair got darker? where would that put me.. will have to do more research in order to see where all of the above comes together..
blessings to all!
It would put you no where fast. Dont think yourself special because of this trait. Most individuals when they are infants take on a blondish tint to their hair as well as eye color. It is normal.
It can take time for genetics to kick in he is right it is pretty normal
Okay... I was born with black hair and blonde roots, then it turned red, and i have blue eyes... where the heck would that put me, lol.
That puts you all in the abominable section of the nephilim's genes hehe, just playing!
Just have to say, as I have said before;- Sumerians held the knowledge of this stories, doesn't directly mean they(the myths) happened in their time frame, their are other root races-eathlings(civilizations) not even documented in our knowledge but retrieved by clairvoyance, secret societies and some limited scientific approach in regards of Geneticists and Geographers- cartographers linked with historians and our technology to acquire precision, some things don't come in the conventional way, but Nephilims, "angels" or as you direct them- are way older platforms and myths than Sumerian times itself and probably older than even Atlantian times as well, which remounts other sources alienated from us, or in regards of general public, thus the main keys and leaks could be found on Indigenous groups that may hold key to the puzzles in tidbits of their genetic makeup, that why their prophecies are quite interesting to take in consideration in the advent of the new cycle of aquarius( the whole thing about the root races, the golden ages[conscious generation] falling-concluding to the iron ages[ the ego based deterioration of generations]) and the whole astrological cycles of the zodiac).
A regular human who is just growing up color can change at any time
Yes, yes, yes... Such as Lemuria, Atlantis, Shambhala.. Etc.
Now, if these ancient civilizations were never recorded, then how the hell do they exist during present time with little to no archeological foundation for research? Hell, there are plenty of ruins from these places that are no where in the media... Why would this type of information be suppressed for so long?
Let me illustrate you, as I say everything is connection, when you have one you keep puzzling everything; thats the beauty of the universe, first we got mythologies that can expand in some focal points, then we have hear-says of indigenous groups that can be founded by the same without generations of knowing, then we have maps, cartography, astrology, then we have a civilizations with knowledge of the previous race, then we have religions that translate and edit the past, then we have secret societies protecting them from being destroyed, then we have conspiracies hiding the truth from spilling, then we have genetic science and advancement that can decode us all with a single cell, little by little we enlighten more, everything by experience our sole purpose here as physical entities, trapped in physical forms for our level of conscience, it is logistics, you cannot be in universal power and knowledge if you are a spring of negative source.
Here is a piece of the puzzle:
http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/05may/atlantisDNA.html
After that explore the myth of Indigenous groups of North America. You will find interest specially in the predictions of the future with the limitations of the zodiac.
I believe you are alluding to the Native American Ley Line connection. Am I right?
Not exactly, Im talking about the conenction between NAtive Americans and Atlantean in the destruction of the Iron Age moving into a new world(place) to start the Golden Age ( the beginning of a new root race, where everything remounts on harmony and love, degrading into Silver Age, then Bronze, and consecutively degrading into Iron Age, where we are situated presently. Now they know this, they know about the root race, they know about the prophecies that await us, and is all passed down from stories from generations to generations.
....
-When investigators compiled the genetic data on the distribution of the X haplogroup in the America's what they discovered sent shock waves through the conventional and alternative history camps. The X lineage was only found in a handful of tribes scattered across the country, the Yakima and Sioux in the northwest and the Navajo in the southwest, in about 5% of their populations. However, the greatest concentrations by far occurred in the Ojibway, Oneota and Nuu-Chah-Nulth tribes where almost 25% of the tribal members fell into the X lineage.
Moreover, the vast majority of tribes contained no X members. In fact, it was not found in any native tribes in Central or South America. Again, what did these patterns mean? Independent researchers associated with the Edgar Cayce Association (A.R.E.) quickly pointed out that the data supported some of the material found in the Atlantis readings that the 'sleeping prophet' had given in the 1930s. Cayce noted that some Atlantis refugees had immigrated to the northeastern region of the United States and later formed the Iroquois nation. It was in those tribes that the highest concentration of the X haplogroup was found.
The Cayce readings also claimed that some of these refugees went to the American southwest and others migrated to the Mound Builder region and formed that civilization. Odd that his psychic information would so closely parallel the distribution pattern of the X lineage. Cayce had also given the dates that these migrations had occurred and they too agreed with the DNA findings. The plot was surely thickening in a most fascinating way. If the story stopped here it would be enough to hold interest and provoke thought however it goes farther, much farther.
The apparent widespread presence of the X lineage across what is now known as the United States appears to show a wide initial dispersal. One could postulate a west-east migration of this haplogroup from Siberian Asia. But that scenario poses two serious obstacles:1) the greatest concentration of this group is found in the northeastern region of the United States and 2) X is virtually absent in Asia.
Like a good detective novel, all of the clues had not been uncovered in the late 1990s when the X group had been identified and was being hotly debated. Geneticists pressed forward and launched a probe into the Altai tribe located in the Gobi desert and found the X lineage in small numbers. This is the only population in Asia that exhibits this haplogroup and as such they comprise a tiny, isolated genetic island. Orthodox anthropologists were elated when the news reached their ears. They seized on this finding as smoking gun proof that the X group in North America had its ancestral roots in Siberian Asia, end of story.
To say that this was an unscientific rush to a final conclusion that just happened to agree with their long held beliefs is an understatement. Let us pause and use logic and commonsense and try to walk through what we are being asked to accept. The Gobi Desert is about 8,000 miles from the northeastern section of the United States. We are being told that this tribe trekked that distance and transferred their genes from their ancestral homeland to the Great Lakes without depositing the X group genes in any other part of Asia, Alaska, Canada, and the region between Washington and the Northeast America.
On February 16, 1932 Cayce related some information during a reading that is extraordinarily cogent to this unfolding genetic mystery story. When asked about the position of the continent of Atlantis he replied:
"The position the continent Atlantis occupied, is that as between the Gulf of Mexico on the one hand - and the Mediterranean upon the other. Evidences of this lost civilization are to be found in the Pyrenees and Morocco on the one hand, British Honduras, Yucatan and America upon the other."
Now, we must pick up the trail of clues on the other side of the Atlantic. Let us keep in mind that when Cayce gave this reading DNA had not yet been discovered and there was no such thing as mtDNA analysis. Nevertheless, he mentioned "evidences" in two specific locales, the Pyrenees, a mountain range sandwiched in between France and Spain where the Basques live, and Morocco where another ancient group, the Berbers resides. Astonishingly, these two populations contain the highest frequencies of the X lineage found in Europe and North Africa.
The Basques have long puzzled anthropologists, linguists and historians because, although they are Caucasian they do not fit in with the rest of the European populations. Their language is not related to any other tongue in the world. Prior to the advent of genetic research tools investigators used the ABO blood groups to study the relationships between human populations as well as their migration patterns. The Basques turned out to be unique in terms of blood types as well. As a population they contain the highest levels of Rh- 'O' negative blood in the world and among the lowest type B.
Now, what Cayce was suggesting is that some of the people that fled the sinking continent went west and settled and became the Iroquois. Others went east to the Iberian Peninsula then the Pyrenees (Basques), and the West Coast of North Africa then the Atlas Mountains (Berbers). Turning to the Berbers we find yet another group that contains the highest frequency of haplogroup X in the world. Is it a coincidence that these disparate peoples share a very rare mtDNA lineage?
Please expound on what this has to do with the Nephilim in your perpsective? For the audiences sake.
Simple as I responded before everything conencts, and our creation myth or this whole angelics and "higher beings" remounts on things that might've happened before than even Sumerians, just mix archaeology of human evolution, the link between H. Erectus and Homo Sapiens override over H. Neanthertalis meaning we are here before possibly 30,000 years as civilizations, as cycles of civilizations, that comes to an end and restart, and all this I brought explains the beliefs of this Natives Americans "the refugee of Atlantis" to state on present times by stories of here says since back then on the dawn of that Golden Age, and into the present today and the new shift approximates. I really don't know how to express my absolute thoughts because it requires conversation to reach fully acknowledgement, few links will not simply do it.
This is the prophecies of Indigenous Natives Americans
American Indians are a diverse ethnic group. Their languages, customs, social systems varied greatly. One common characteristic found in many Indian nations was an affinity to the spiritual side of life. Out of this came man prophecies.
One of the most fascinating set of prophecies comes out of the Hopi nation located in the Southwestern United States. Many prophecies foretold by the Hopi appear to have come true. Some of these are:
"The Fourth World shall end soon, and the Fifth World will begin. This the elders everywhere know. The Signs over many years have been fulfilled, and so few are left.
"This is the First Sign: We are told of the coming of the white-skinned men, like Pahana, but not living like Pahana men who took the land that was not theirs. And men who struck their enemies with thunder.
"This is the Second Sign: Our lands will see the coming of spinning wheels filled with voices. In his youth, my father saw this prophecy come true with his eyes -- the white men bringing their families in wagons across the prairies."
"This is the Third Sign: A strange beast like a buffalo but with great long horns, will overrun the land in large numbers. These White Feather saw with his eyes -- the coming of the white men's cattle."
"This is the Fourth Sign: The land will be crossed by snakes of iron."
"This is the Fifth Sign: The land shall be criss-crossed by a giant spider's web."
"This is the Sixth sign: The land shall be criss-crossed with rivers of stone that make pictures in the sun."
"This is the Seventh Sign: You will hear of the sea turning black, and many living things dying because of it."
"This is the Eight Sign: You will see many youth, who wear their hair long like my people, come and join the tribal nations, to learn their ways and wisdom.
"And this is the Ninth and Last Sign: You will hear of a dwelling-place in the heavens, above the earth, that shall fall with a great crash. It will appear as a blue star. Very soon after this, the ceremonies of my people will cease.
"These are the Signs that great destruction is coming. The world shall rock to and fro. The white man will battle against other people in other lands -- with those who possessed the first light of wisdom. There will be many columns of smoke and fire such as White Feather has seen the white man make in the deserts not far from here. Only those which come will cause disease and a great dying.
Overall, the theme of Hopi prophecy is that the Earth is going to soon go through a great purification and that humanity can make the decision as to how extreme this purification will be. Their belief is that the world goes through a period of destruction and renewal and that we are about to enter into a new age, the 5th world (or 6th depending upon the source).
Other Native American Prophecies
Mohawk Prophecy of the Seventh Generation
According to the prophecy of the Seventh Generation, seven generations after contact with the Europeans the Onkwehonwe would see the day when the elm trees would die. The prophecy said that strange animals would be born deformed and without the proper limbs. Huge stone monsters would tear open the face of the earth. The rivers would burn. The air would burn the eyes of man. According to the prophecy of the Seventh Generation the Onkwehonwe would see the time when the birds would fall from the sky. The fish would die in the water. And man would grow ashamed of the way that he had treated his Mother and Provider, the Earth.
Finally, according to this prophecy, after seven generations of living in close contact with the Europeans, the Onkwehonwe would rise up and demand that their rights and stewardship over the Earth be respected and restored.
According to the wisdom of this prophecy, men and women would one day turn to the Onkwehonwe for both guidance and direction. It is up to the present generation of youth of the Kanienkehaka to provide leadership and example to all who have failed. The children of the Kanienkehaka are the seventh generation.
Deganawidah: The Two Serpents
American Prophecies by Scott Peterson
When Deganawidah was leaving the Indians in the Bay of Quinte in Ontario, he told the Indian people that they would face a time of great suffering. They would distrust their leaders and the principles of peace of the League, and a great white serpent was to come upon the Iroquois, and that for a time it would intermingle with the Indian serpent as a friend.
This serpent would in time become so powerful that it would attempt to destroy the Indian, and the serpent is described as choking the life's blood out of the Indian people. Deganawidah told the Indians that they would be in such a terrible state at this point that all hope would seem to be lost, and he told them that when things looked their darkest a red serpent would come from the north and approach the white serpent, which would be terrified, and upon seeing the red serpent he would release the Indian, who would fall to the ground almost like a helpless child, and the white serpent would turn all its attention to the red serpent. The bewilderment would cause the white serpent to accept the red one momentarily.
The white serpent would be stunned and take part of the red serpent and accept him. Then there is a heated argument and a fight. And then the Indian revives and crawls toward the land of the hilly country, and then he would assemble his people together, and they would renew their faith and the principles of peace that Deganawidah had established.
There would at the same time exist among the Indians a great love and forgiveness for his brother, and in this gathering would come streams from all over -- not only the Iroquois but from all over -- and they would gather in this hilly country, and they would renew their friendship. And Deganawidah said they would remain neutral in this fight between the white and red serpents.
At the time they were watching the two serpents licked in this battle, a great message would come to them, which would make them ever so humble, and when they become that humble, they will be waiting for a young leader, an Indian boy, possibly in his teens, who would be a choice seer. Nobody knows who he is or where he comes from, but he will be given great power, and would be heard by thousands, and he would give them the guidance and the hope to refrain from going back to their land and he would be the accepted leader.
And Deganawidah said that they will gather in the land of the hilly country, beneath the branches of an elm tree, and they should burn tobacco and call upon Deganawidah by name when facing the darkest hours, and he will return. Deganawidah said that as the choice seer speaks to the Indians that number as the blades of grass, and he would be heard by all at the same time, and as the Indians are gathered watching the fight, they notice from the south a black serpent coming from the sea, and he is described as dripping with salt water, and as he stands there, he rests for a spell to get his breath, all the time watching to the north to the land where the white and red serpents are fighting.
Deganawidah said that the battle between the white and the red serpents opened very slowly but would then become so violent that the mountains would crack and the rivers would boil and the fish would turn up on their bellies. He said that there would be no leaves on the trees in that area. There would be no grass, and that strange bugs and beetles would crawl from the ground and attack both serpents, and he said that a great heat would cause the stench of death to sicken both serpents. And then, as the boy seer is watching this fight, the red serpent reaches around the back of the white serpent and pulls from him a hair which is carried toward the south by a great wind into the waiting hands of the black serpent, and as the black serpent studies this hair, it suddenly turns into a woman, a white woman who tells him things that he knows to be true but he wants to hear them again.
When this white woman finishes telling these things, he takes her and gently places her on a rock with great love and respect, and then he becomes infuriated at what he has heard, so he makes a beeline for the north, and he enters the battle between the red and white serpents with such speed and anger that he defeats the two serpents, who have already been battle weary.
When he finishes, he stand on the chest of the white serpent, and he boasts and puts his chest out like he¹s the conqueror, and he looks for another serpent to conquer. He looks to the land of the hilly country and then sees the Indian standing with his arms folded and looking ever so noble that he knows that this Indian is not the one to fight. The next direction that he will face will be eastward and at that time he will be momentarily blinded by a light that is many times brighter than the sun.
The light will be coming from the east to the west over the water, and when the black serpent regains his sight, he becomes terrified and makes a beeline for the sea.
He dips into the sea and swims away in a southerly direction, and shall never again be seen by the Indians.
The white serpent revives, and he too sees the light, and he makes a feeble attempt to gather himself and go toward that light.
A portion of the white serpent refuses to remain but instead makes its way toward the land of the hilly country, and there he will join the Indian People with a great love like that of a lost brother.
The rest of the white serpent would go to the sea and dip into the sea and would be lost out of sight for a spell. Then suddenly the white serpent would appear again on the top of the water and he would be slowly swimming toward the light. Deganawidah said that the white serpent would never again be troublesome to the Indian People.
The red serpent would revive and he would shiver with great fear when he sees that light. He would crawl to the north and leave a bloody, shaky trail northward, and he would never be seen again by the Indians. Deganawidah said as this light approaches that he would be that light, and he would return to his Indian People, and when he returns, the Indian People would be a greater nation than they had ever been before.
Iroquois Prophecy
It's prophesied in our Instructions that the end of the world will be near when the trees start dying from the tops down. That's what the maples are doing today. Our Instructions say the time will come when there will be no corn, when nothing will grow in the garden, when water will be filthy and unfit to drink.
Then a great monster will rise up from the water and destroy mankind. One of the names of that monster is "the sickness that eats you up inside" like diabetes or cancer or AIDS. Maybe AIDS is the monster. It's coming. It's already here.
Our prophet Handsome Lake told of it in the 1700s. He saw Four Beings, like four angels, coming from the Four Directions. They told him what would happen, how there would be diseases we'd never heard of before. You will see many tears in this country. Then a great wind will come, a wind that will make a hurricane seem like a whisper. It will cleanse the earth and return it to its original state. That will be the punishment for what we've done to the Creation.
http://www.2012endofdays.org/more/Native-American-prophecy.php
So indeed Im deviating from the main subject, but you got to remember you asked the spring of my idealization, i will continue sending you the other connections to it as well.
I thnk that's how the rest of the worlds population came around.
There is no information stating the fallen angels were "male" because they mated with females and quite frankly we don't know if the information is valid. From what I can tell over long years of research they may very well have been hermaphroditic, meaning they could mate with either gender depending on choice. People of this nature have been in humanity for thousands of years and many revered them up until more recent times. I have an article in one of my journals and I will come back and give the link and it is not on the gender issue but on what the words mean. I have the book Fallen Angels and it is a pretty good one but no one has the definitive answer and much I have seen near the beginning is part of the debates and neither has been proven correct but the person who wrote the article I have worked on translating the Dead Sea Scrolls and is a scholar in the languages. When they speak of fallen it means fallen in battle and not from something like Grace. I think something happened but due to the oral traditions that later are written and sensationalized by culture who knows what the real story was. You can go into meanings of words and a whole lot of things but that doesn't make it factual. All it means is that is the way the writer chose to describe what happened and the words they used. How do you think a person back then might describe a microwave? The person who started the thread I think might be pretty close to the answer somewhat and the rest is just who the who were and who wasn't apart of them. Be back with a link to the article if I have it.
I apologize for length. Here is some of the information.
Petros Koutoupis, a full-blooded Greek fluent in the language, has been a student of Septuagintal Greek and Biblical Hebrew for quite some time now; with additional knowledge in Aramaic, Ugaritic, and Akkadian grammar. His work focuses specifically on the Iron Age of both Mesopotamian and Levantine history, leading to a quest to find the origins of the Holy Scriptures called the Old Testament.
In his recent research, Petros has been focusing on the Documentary Hypothesis and has made a courageous attempt to place a clearer date to the writings under the author we refer to as the Yahwist (J). As a result, our modern understanding of biblical history had to be re-evaluated for future scholarship. The author does all of this successfully. In fact the start of his research has been published in An Adopted Legacy: Neo-Assyrian Origin to Hebrew Lore (2007); which has done successfully thus far.
For a short while, Petros had also taken an active role in the Open Scrolls Project to aid in the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls with an end goal to make it freely available to the general public.
Basically what he is saying and I have found this elsewhere when people really go back is a Yahwist Scribe called J did some tampering with writings.
"It would seem that most of these authors attempt to link the root word for the nephilîm with the Hebrew word of נפל (nāphal). Nāphal means 'to fall' or 'to fall in battle, by the sword', 'to be killed', 'to be fallen' and also 'to fall unto/upon'; all of these definitions display characteristics not held by the nephilîm or, as I make the argument in my book, the sons of God.
We first read of the nephilîm in Genesis 6:4. This is one of two verses to mention the nephilîm three times throughout the entire Pentateuch. These three occurrences have been credited to the Yahwist (J), a scribe from the Southern Kingdom of Judah to whom a good part of the Pentateuch has been attributed. In my research, I have personally dated J from the middle of the Neo-Assyrian Empire to just before its decline; starting just after the fall of Samaria and Exile of the Israelites at the hands of Sargon II [3] .
Taking an interpretation of the nephilîm as the 'people of the fiery rockets' again holds no credibility when examining the term itself and the surrounding grammar of Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33. Historically, the Hebrew word was left untranslated by the Revisers, the name of one of the Canaanite tribes. The Revisers have, in fact, translated the Hebrew גברים (gibbōrîm), in Genesis 6:4, as 'mighty men'; which will be a key point in the coming conclusions. When the Old Testament was first translated to the Greek language, the word for nephilîm read γίγαντες (gigantes), the Greek word for giants. This is confirmed in Numbers 13:33 [6] with the description of the Israelites when compared to the race of giants.
It is extremely important for the reader to understand that in Hebrew grammar the singular nāphal cannot form the plural nephilîm. If we were to follow grammatical rules within the language we would end up with the plural nōphelîm. Clearly this is not the same as nephilîm, and we can now see that it is impossible for nāphal to be the root word used. A detailed analysis of the characteristics held by the nephilîm will further prove this in the section below. One other area of concern is that nōphelîm is not in the plural passive form but instead a plural active indicating that these beings are 'falling' and have not 'fallen'. Now what have the nephilîm fallen from? The answer is nowhere. If a link were to be established for someone(s) falling from God's grace it would have to go to the sons of God as is apparent in the Post-Exilic and not in the Pre-Exilic literature. The biggest clue to the identification of the word's root can be found in Numbers 13:33. In the Masoretic Texts (MT), the word nephilîm is used twice in this verse, but oddly enough is spelled differently. Many have wondered what this could mean.
it can easily be seen that anything going against the supreme YHWH was evil, including those very sons of God that came onto the daughters of men, bringing forth their "evil" offspring, the nephilîm . Coincidently enough, the angels spoken of in the post-Exilic literature are described as pure and bright as Heaven; they are said to be formed of fire, and encompassed by light [25] . Could the scribe have seen this and taken the once heroic warrior demi-gods and demonized them? Mankind couldn't have been at fault, the scribes would have thought; evil forces must have been introduced to influence humans to commit evil things. The reader must also understand that before the Post-Exilic period and the introduction of Zoroastrianism into the Levant, Hebrew lore never incorporated any evil entity. You had the corruption and introduction of Sātān and his role to God, Belial, and Mastema; all evil spirits opposing the great YHWH, a role never assigned beforehand.
Now the question is, aside from the famed mighty warriors looked upon to such a high degree, as seen in Genesis 6:4, were there any surrounding and now lost mythological stories concerning these nephilîm ? Were they instead divine kings who ruled mankind at its earliest stages of civilization, as is seen in the Sumerian King List, the Epic of Gilgameš and in more historical stories?"
(I don't have the link for this from my journal)
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The Nephilim and the Sons of God are not the same thing. IE: The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bore children to them; the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown. Genesis 6:4
All it is saying is these two groups of people were there when the Sons of God mated with the daughters of man. One has to assume it is meaning angels and because it was a patriarchal society they wrote it male but there are instances that refer to the female angel and that they really had no gender which makes me again think they were of both we recognize or could assume either form.
A quote taken from Andrew Collin's book, From the Ashes of Angels, shows that some confuse the nephilîm with the sons of God and use the term interchangeably to signify one and the same race:
This implies that nephilim, a word meaning the 'fallen ones', or 'those who have fallen', was the original name given by the Israelites to the fallen angels. Strange confirmation of this suggestion comes from rereading Genesis 6. Verse 2 speaks of the Sons of God coming unto the Daughters of Men, while in contrast verse 4 states firmly that: 'The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men.'
It would seem that most of these authors attempt to link the root word for the nephilîm with the Hebrew word of נפל (nāphal). Nāphal means 'to fall' or 'to fall in battle, by the sword', 'to be killed', 'to be fallen' and also 'to fall unto/upon'; all of these definitions display characteristics not held by the nephilîm or, as I make the argument in my book, the sons of God.
We first read of the nephilîm in Genesis 6:4. This is one of two verses to mention the nephilîm three times throughout the entire Pentateuch. These three occurrences have been credited to the Yahwist (J), a scribe from the Southern Kingdom of Judah to whom a good part of the Pentateuch has been attributed. In my research, I have personally dated J from the middle of the Neo-Assyrian Empire to just before its decline; starting just after the fall of Samaria and Exile of the Israelites at the hands of Sargon II [3]
http://www.grahamhancock.com/forum/KoutoupisP1.php
This is the website of Petros Koutoupis:
http://www.petroskoutoupis.com/author/news.html
He does reviews of various religious writings in Amazon.com as well.
Mr. Koutoupis shows in various writings that are the same but from other times where they have gone from a female or neutral identification of things to a "he" or male identification and many times that was done by this Yahwist. So did they exist, I think so but I think the stories most believe are not quite right due to tampering by scribes and others due to cultural biases. What they were it is hard to say.
"Fallen" as most of you redirected, did in fact meant as fallen from power to the designed system of the "sons of god", which means they disobeyed an order which could in fact impact the test subject in many things as well as ways, and it did: (intermixing with the daughters of men [test subject] was seemed as heresy), the broken oath that had a price and that- brings them to excomunication from their elite powers and positions to scavenge earthrealms with us in our long journey, so they were somehow "damned" by their own people or exiled from their race. It doesn't have that much of science to interpret ignoring the tainted things each group edit to it: they were seemed as evil for disobeying the command of the "God" in abrahamic sacred text rootings, when in fact was the disobeying of the oath made by Enki and Enlil- to instruct, control and observe the human race and not to intercede in the process of the purpose of creation, but I guess it wasn't that easy when it came to our mortal appeals hehe.
And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.
And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.'
And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.'
And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.'
Then sware they all together and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it.
1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters.
2 And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men
3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not
4 indeed agree to do this deed, and
I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations
5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves
6 by mutual imprecations upon it.
And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn
Chapter 7
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms
2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they
3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed
4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against
5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and
6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.
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As in the Bible:
They knew what they were doing was wrong and that it would remount on exile by their actions and they took the risk, forever seamed as evil for disobeying God plan with mankind .The Enki or An and Ki, as creator(s) gods, was the biggest problem of them all, since the only creating that took place was sex between angels and humans that resulted in the pollution of the human gene pool by angelic beings [or as Sitchin would have you believe, "Aliens"]. This is why it says Noah was perfect in his generations. His gene pool had not been polluted by the Annunaki. His family line was the only one that hadn't participated in the fallen angel orgy, as it were, from the time the Annunaki arrived on the planet. I propose to prove that An-Ki and Enlil [the Annunaki] didn't arrive on the planet at all until the sixth generation of Adam, after which they began to corrupt the human and animal genome and the planet as well.
Where is this descendants of nephilims? you might ask.Well thats another story, go figure.
Hello,
I believe they could still exist. Perhaps they did not die away, maybe we just forgot how to look at them.
Maybe the want to be hidden you know as a person we are smart but as a group we are stupid