That is a beautiful story and a true told one. But am I clear as to what you are saying, that vampires then came from satan. Hence the idea that vampires once again are evil... I do not want to put words in your mouth by any means, just trying to understand.. Wasnt it satan that took lillith and cain and gave them all they wanted if they listened to him as well.
well the was I see it is that as in humans we to have the capacity for good and evil aswell we make our own path in life.
well once sin was created, we all were given that path to chose.. Nothing was perfect anymore. Now we were basically human.. But I dont find being a vampire a sin.. thats where the trouble lies with me. Are you hurting anyone or do you have a willing partner ? In a way it comes down to ethics. Wouldnt the only way you could think this way would be to believe that vampires are evil...
my dear brother,
i commend you on such a well written article love. a very interesting story, one that i have heard many people believe in.
in my path, its similar in a sence just involves different gods/desses and theres no devil casted away for not believing...
*hugs* but i do not ever say that one story isnt true while another one is..because everyones belief is true.
I agree with Frankie on this one in that if what youre saying is vampyres are evil then I have to disagree with you
this story is intriging very true i believe not stretched out
My personal experience as to what I have seen on this board are the most unevil people i have ever met. I belong to alot of places and this one is the best. I hate to think people thinking that vampires are evil or those that believe in vampires are evil. I dont believe that for one minute..
I loved the story as a story. Pretty good alternative and it could catch on as such. My only little problem with the whole things is that I personaly cannot relate to a 'god' or 'devil' and much less to the whole concept of 'original sin,' I don't believe in those things, so I cannot apply it to myself.
My 'story' would go so far back in time and history that the concept of a ' creator god' would not even exist in the general population's consciousness.
The vampires I relate to are soooo 'primal,' before good and evil, before god or Adam, Eve, Cain, Lillith... Like animals in the wild, beyond sinning... they just are. But then again, I think that would zap all the fun out 'falling' from some hihger spiritual plane. I don't know.
I loved the story, though. Pretty cool! Keep it up.
My main problem with that is that I do not believe in god or satan. I dont believe in creation stories because that is just what they are, stories. However, it IS a good story. And from what I gathered, you were no implying vampires are evil. Maybe I read it wrong or something but i didn't see that. Just my thoughts. Kool idea though. I never really though of vampire origins.
I agree with BloodhEll, I think that it is a good vampire creation story and worth developing further! Keep at it. You never know... :)
not too sure that i agree with you there ,but good story and very interesting... makes you think
ok ok no I am not saying that they are evil look evil is a point of view in lucifers eyes he was right and in the eyes of God he was wrong one persons view of good may be anothers evil.
look at the war in Iraq to them we are the evil ones but yet our boys see it as they are fighting for those who cant fight for them self. who is to say that Lucifer is evil , just like all kidd some are like there parents and other are them self...do you understand? were I am coming from if not just tell me and I will try to help you see it from my eyes
This is an interesting story, but I'm afraid I only view it as just a story and nothing else for I know there are other theories out there.
Brother Ryu,
Thank you for sharing a well considered interpretation of the legends, in such a way I had not heard before.
Scripture always brings the awesomeness of it all to me.
I feel that there may be many ways to come to vampyrism, all of them seemingly effective.
your post was very insightful and full of much thought i applaud you greatly. of coarse i as well as others have different opinion which is okay for what a boring world this would be if we all agreed. :-)
well i follow the path of the wicca so i believe in more then one god. but i do agree that lilith was one of the very first and ancient in her right but also a sort of goddess imbodied as well.
I think vampires were created also for balance. for a firmly believe that all the world is a scale that a balance keeps everything in harmony and that if the scale is tipped chaos insures. that you must have dark to have light for what defines light if you have nothing to compare it to. same with love and hate lust and need all that. i believe vampires were created with chouces some choosing good others bad. ordinary humans can't be the only such species on earth where would the balance and diversity be. we need everything. where would the mystery and magick be if we did not have things also living that we ourselves can't explain or begin to comprehend in one lifetime?
oh well now im babeling like i do to often so now im shutting up lol oh and forgive my spelling im terrible at it :-)
always
S
thank you all I am trying to do is show there are more then one view on how we became.
Moonwitch my sister you see things the way I do. thank you all I hope it enlightens you all some.
wow, that really *is* a good story... i agree with many before me, however... it maybe should be taken as simply that: a story. i *also* want to give you a hug!! ::hug::
Nice story. As in Genesis 1:1 to 2:3? I can't tell exactly which words differ from the original, but it's nicely made up.
That was alot to read but yet very good. I have heard alot about lilith on here but was unsure as to who she was. Now i know
well this is just one way it might have happend. lol I am glad you all like it
This is one of the best theories I have heard yet, brother. But does no one else see a minor connection between the Grigory and our kind? That aside, congradulations of another well thought out idea, LordOfNoctemAeternus.
What bible are you reading from the part where you say let creature dominat rize and he saw it was not good I have never either heard of it nor read it from any bible that I have seen. at least not from the ones I have seen at the least.
very well said...if you dont mind i would like to copy and share that with some one...
yea baby great post this is a good topic that really isnt discussed on here... but i feel like the origin of everything is not a story but merely a theory... if you dont like how someone else intereprets and believes something do not belittle it by calling it a story. Lord Ryu was sharing something with the site that he found in a church bible... i guess you could call it a portion of the unedited version of Genesis... take that how you will, but refer to it as a theory, not a story please.
forsaken who was that comment ment for? For some reason maybe I am wrong but thought it was to me ;)
vampires were the ones that hid in the dark and never spoke to a soul then evolution occured
i get to reveal two opinions in one swoop: first, i don't really believe in the theory of god, the devil, or heaven and hell. i believe in some sort of source of life and power and ultimate design, but i don't think of this as one being, more as the collective power of all of us.
that being said, if there is some sort of over-all power that's guiding us all, then i suppose that it could get credit for "creating" vampires, but honestly i feel that vampirism is just one of the many, many roads of evolution that humanity has created for itself.
that's my two cents.
princessnix well said. Nice to see one with an open mind. And If it's from a Church it's a Story.....
no the comment wasnt directed towards you but take it as you will... In the Pillars we are to respect everyone's beliefs and beliefs system so I will not comment on the last comment about everything from "church" being a story. That is your opinion. I personally have discovered by reading some books that the Bible has left out alot and so it makes we wonder what the church fathers [the Watchers] are covering up and if that does explain alot about creation that we arent supposed to know?
well i have heard this one before and as it did then it mae me puzzled which i dont like to be but i like some of the other ideas about it becasue i dont like to think i am decended from someone unholy
my son there past is not ours we make what we are. the sins of the fathers are not the sins of the sons we make our lives what they are not them we can sin or not that is up to you not them....
great story it was well writen, it made me look at the vampire creation in a different view.
would it be fine with you if i copied your storie so that i could prove a point...?
I don't study religion much, but this is a very good story. It does make you think.
well i agree with you Ryu but i try to be pure of heart but i perfer some of the otherreasons for our existance
It's an interesting concept LordOfNoctemAeternus
But to believe in it one would have to believe in the Christian God and I do not. Nor do I believe in Satan or Lucifer as the devil for that matter.
I believe in a higher power, male or female. That our vampiric traits came from life forms who colonized earth and through inter breeding, genetic alteration and evolution they shared their traits with the human form that inhabited earth at that time.
If you dont believe in "God" or "satan" but a higher power then there is still a creation story
my beleave is vampires have a incubus or a sucubus in them to make them so senshule
It is of a ageless past...A form of Energy and Awareness that manifest differently in most...each mind has different memories and gifts...Some it comes through in a almost pure form...
very interesting I must say. It is a means to an end for the orgin of us.
- Sin
I look at it this way... THe bible is considered infalliable (meaning without error for those that dont know), however it was cannonized (or edited) by the Septuagint XI to included only the documents that they believed were inspired by God (this is if you believe in such). But what I dont understand is how one verse is considered but the next isnt when it was written at the same time by the same man. If this is part of the infalliable bible that Lord Ryu has revealed to us then what else is missing?! Maybe God (or a higher power) created both species (human and vampyres) one to rule the day and one to rule the night.. but like humans, the vampyres became corrupted in sin (this is assuming that you have a belief structure where "sin" is an issue) and thus the gap between all of God's creations grew.
I apologize for the length but its a point to be further developed
Well I have made my own seperate thread with my ideals of our beginnings. Yet since no one has posted in it. I figured it might be wise to just share it here. So here is my biblical version of Sep Tepy, which is our beginning as I see it.
-------------------------------------------
It wouldn’t be shortly after the conception of Adam and Eve and their fall from Grace that Cain and Abel would come about. It would be during the fall from Grace that God would continue to make others in his Image, it would be from this, that the races of the world would be brought about, yet the language would stay the same.
Yet it would be during the time of Cain’s Murder of his beloved brother Abel that the aspect of us, the awakened, would take place. As Adam and Eve began to pro-create our society as a tribe would slowly form and eventually we would come together. As this time goes on, during the curse of Cain for his murder, we would begin to form as a strong tribe, growing powerful with ideas and thoughts.
Eventually we would begin to play with Magic and energy which would help us grow and speak to those within the spiritual realm. Eventually through our playing with this energy we would find the grounds to perhaps surpass the forgetful mind that death brings to the soul as the soul is shocked as it leaves the body permanently.
It would probably be during the time that Enoch, the Son of Cain would be brought from Earth into Heaven without the aspect of death that we would finally find the means to perform a ritual that would help give us the edge we need. The edge to remember what we have learned in life after our spirits pass into the Spirit realm.
It would be during this ritual that our tribe created that we would be successful, yet also, it would gain the wrath of God as well. It would be do to this God would curse our souls to hunger for the energy of the living, even while we live within the physical flesh. With this we suffer and hunger, now feeding off each other, slowly killing our own tribe without meaning to do so. Yet, no matter what, we would survive as we now begin to understand the functions of Magic and the energy about us.
Now we would begin to pull this energy, not just from the physical form as in the beginning that we once did, but now through focusing our minds and spirits to attune themselves to the aspect of the energy about us. Eventually we would gain the strength to realize the potential this gave us, finding a strength within the curse that was laid upon us.
Finally after centuries of surviving this tribe would only be wiped cleaned from the earth as the great deluge took place. Yet, unlike those that died do to God and his desire to wipe the world clean of sin, we would live on within the spiritual realm, hunting, feeding, living just as we did when we were alive in the tribe.
After centuries have passed and humanity regained its strength we would slowly begin to emerge from the spiritual realm. Reborn into the physical, yet less able to remember everything of our past that we hoped the gift would have given us. Now as we continue our search for the lost knowledge of ourselves and that of the tribe we learn more and more about the energies about us and begin to find more strength as we ascend into an era of knowledge and technology.
- Sin
I have a good article in my Teachings Journal that will give a logical alternative view for a biblical origin of vampires. It is entitled, "Vampires According To Enoch."
Fucking awesome just awesome I agree with that sin and to brother Angelus you know I love your views aswell. I am happy to see that this thread is opening some minds.
We all have our own ideas on how we all came about. Just some of us do not believe that Cain, Lilith or Dracula were our pregnators.
- Sin
maybe not pregnators but definately had a major role in our history (if you believe that such people exist)
I think that the original Vamp was Kain ables brother. When kain killed his brother he would not take Gods forgiveness. For this he damned him for all times to only drink blood andall that he touched would also become damned.
Heres question that just poped up, why anyone would want to know how a non-existing creature even came to be, to beging with is not even real?
are you eluding that vampyres are not real? If so, then I do believe you are on the wrong site... You need to do some studying before asking such close minded questions
Great story....I am still undecided on who was the first and also where vampire originate from
There are all sorts of ideas. Yet, none of them are probably right. All we can do is press onto the future and remember what we know as the past and keep exploring ourselves and the condition.
- Sin
Ahh, but the creatures created before the humans, could be anything. I enjoy pieces that make me think.
I am what I am Fire and understand your disbelief but and I am sure that the otrhers on the site see things way diff. then you friend....
I do believe in what I am and in myself. So unless I'm a Nihilist, I'm not going to no believe in things that I have a connection to.
- Sin
I posted to the origins of souls....along the same reasoning what I posted there says there is NO good or EVIL....people were humans were created for one purpose to show god how magnificent he is (which to me seems kinda evil) and the fact that another is jealous and condemed for it (well that is tyranical)....GOOD and EVIL are terms man created to describe things....we were given free will if it is true free will why would god persacute you for the choices HE gave...Hell is the outcome of your choices on earth.....
I commend you on a well writen article. I find you thoughts delightful and interesting... well worth looking into further. Once again good job.
I did this so you may see some views on our beginings and to see what you's think
VERY interesting theory. not my bleiefs but intriging pint of veiw.
very interesting point of view...thought i had heard something similar to it long ago...but i can't quite recall
As with many things, I suppose this could be quite possible.
Wasnt this theory originaly written by Brian Augustyn in the comic book Crimson.
I just finished reading it and by reading the first several lines of what was posted reconized it right away. Even thought in the book version her name was Lissith not Lillith as its most commonly know.
Also you didnt finish the entire beginingthe way it was written.
But I always found this theory very interesting and if you read throught the story even more the origins get better and reason behind betrayal are well thought out it really is a very good take on the subject.
Lillith is supposed to be the mother of all demons, vampires, etc., etc. but no one knows who the father is supposed to be because i believe that the angles were not fertile and couldn't bear children