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When you hear the word "Belief", first thing to probably surface in your mind is "Religion". So naturally you might feel inclined to think of "Freedom Of Religion" and suggest everyone has the right to believe what they want. After all, we should, right?

Well, individually yes, but when a belief becomes a set belief in which others follow simply cause they don't have the ability to create their own beliefs, then what we have is a belief system that begins to brainwash the masses with nonsense so it can achieve a hidden agenda.

Censorship is a perfect example of how religion and law both go hand in hand. By accepting a belief system, you give power to an all controlling unseen power that will dictate how we all live. Though not all religions do this, by the simple fact alone they are still religions keeps the religions that do do this in power.

Nudists believe we should have the right to go without clothes. Regardless of what we think, laws impose their own beliefs on us all, such as to wear clothes.

All animals piss outside so why can't we?

Most will say everyone has a right to their own belief, but are quick to scream and point the finger at anyone shown guilty of non-conforming!



So my questions I now ask all of you:

1. What makes any Belief different from that of a Religious Belief?

2. Why Freedom Of Religion and Not Freedom Of Belief?

3. Why does Law contradict Belief?

4. Would destroying all religions be the answer to real freedom of belief?



Then there's the other view on beliefs. Such as a need to know verses thinking you know. If you had to hire an engineer to build a freeway bridge that went over a river, and you had to chose between an engineer that went by measurements and calculations or by an engineer that went by what they believed would work, which would you chose?

Also, if everyone is entitled to their own opinion, then we subconsciously build everything we know on some kind of belief, much like the game we played as children where we get in a line and whisper something to each other in a chain to see if the last person understood what the first person said. It's never correct, is it?



5. Should there be a line drawn between Facts and Beliefs?

6. If we only communicated Facts, and stated Beliefs as (Opinions), would we have perfect communication?


There are some brilliant minds on this forum so I'm looking forward to your feedback.

That's a lot of questions and I've forgotten most of them. Maybe narrow it down? Ha.....

The church doesn't like thinkers, for the most part.

I have thought about the notion of us all being molded by society and by their rules of what's right and wrong. I mean, by nature, we are not so civilized.

If we were born on an island, not governed by these laws, molded, then we would be very different. People are shamed into behaving quite a bit. But if we didn't, it would be chaos. Not very many would be "good" for the sake of being good, if there wasn't a threat of punishment of imprisonment or hell.

Another thing is that the "laws" are different around the world. Some places it's ok to behead lost hikers. Ew. Other parts of the world you can screw your family members. Another ew. And some places you eat guinea pigs running around your house.

Oh and then some places you are looked down on if you don't have a big bone in your nose or loops around your neck. Can't be a man there, til you beat yourself senseless.

So whose laws/beliefs are right? "Truth, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder".

1. What makes any Belief different from that of a Religious Belief?

There is something to be said in understanding what is the core of religious belief, in regards to belief in general. Religious ideals tend to force the life style choice and cultural development of the individual towards something greater then themselves.

I can believe a bullet isnt gonna hurt me if im shot, and id be wrong.

I can believe that ill go to heaven if i get shot and killed by a bullet and id be a christian.

Its a matter of extremes, and what thinking guides your life in this instance. If you dont hold to religion and conformity of ideas, and so no giving over to acceptable belief, you will have a different set of "beliefs" and religious foundations.





2. Why Freedom Of Religion and Not Freedom Of Belief?

Religion isn't just a belief structure, it is the entire way of living a life. It is from the simple gardening of plants, herbs, and hunting to the principals of morals and ethics surrounding that if your wiccan.

Beliefs that do not force the individual towards a greater purpose, or principal of evolution is nothing that can be regarded with any respect towards those who have complex scenarios set up around their belief patterns.






3. Why does Law contradict Belief?


Law binds behaviors. Belief is just ideology and so unfounded in the natural world.


4. Would destroying all religions be the answer to real freedom of belief?


Ignorance spawns prejudice. If you can find a way to deal with ignorance then your in the right direction. Also not going around waving your crucifix or ankh at anyone on the street is a good way to not have to worry about beliefs interfering in your day to day.


Then there's the other view on beliefs. Such as a need to know verses thinking you know. If you had to hire an engineer to build a freeway bridge that went over a river, and you had to chose between an engineer that went by measurements and calculations or by an engineer that went by what they believed would work, which would you chose?


I would have the calculations, belief is irrelevent when it comes to knowledge. You do not have to believe in it, you just have to know how it works. To know, is better.


Also, if everyone is entitled to their own opinion, then we subconsciously build everything we know on some kind of belief, much like the game we played as children where we get in a line and whisper something to each other in a chain to see if the last person understood what the first person said. It's never correct, is it?

People are lazy, and ignorant.

5. Should there be a line drawn between Facts and Beliefs?

there is a line, its your awareness of it, that makes you unable to see it.

6. If we only communicated Facts, and stated Beliefs as (Opinions), would we have perfect communication?

no.




So yea i was bored, happy posting. interesting questions.

You're heading in the direction of free will. A human who had no exposure to other humans and lived in the wild, and who had never had any exposure to other humans, might make choices based on free will.

As for the rest of us, it doesn't exist. We influence one another from birth and may think we're independent thinkers and do as we want, but that's a delusion.

A religion is an institutionalized set of beliefs and/or rules/laws meant to control people. The difference between a religion and say, a document like the constitution is the absence of Mystical/Supernatural/ explanations cloaking the rules.

1. What makes any Belief different from that of a Religious Belief?

Well belief can mean many things does not mean it has to be a religion for example;

1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing

2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group

3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence

synonyms belief, faith, credence, credit mean assent to the truth of something offered for acceptance. belief may or may not imply certitude in the believer . faith almost always implies certitude even where there is no evidence or proof .


credence suggests intellectual assent without implying anything about grounds for assent . credit may imply assent on grounds other than direct proof .

belief is what is in ones own mind whether it was put there or they truly do believe whatever it is.


2. Why Freedom Of Religion and Not Freedom Of Belief?

Because it does not always have to do with Religion, to believe in something, and belief is basically freedom of speech/opinions. yet, that is not always the case or we would not have lawsuits that are about slander..

There is no true freedom of everything, because we have boundaries for everyone in order to protect us or them.


3. Why does Law contradict Belief?

Ok this question to me can have a spin on anything that has to do with the Law, such as belief in what category are you referring to? Belief that I can fly or that I believe little green men run the government etc. so please elaborate on this question if you will. Thanks.


4. Would destroying all religions be the answer to real freedom of belief?

Myself I do not think that all beliefs are religiously connected, I mean just because soemone is a vegetarian what does any religion have to do with having the belief that they should not ever eat of meat? it is a personal habit not a religious habit.

There is not true total freedom of anything anywhere. no matter what, you have to have *order to maintain civilization, or everyone would just kill or destroy who or whatever they want to and well then we have complete chaos in the world.



5. Should there be a line drawn between Facts and Beliefs?

Well again fact of what religious beliefs, or Beliefs with true facts, such as I have strong belief that I will not live forever because that is a fact.

Where does one draw a line between the 2. I know that there are religions who have no facts just a faith and a want to Believe so...

6. If we only communicated Facts, and stated Beliefs as (Opinions), would we have perfect communication?

Not in the rel world. There is no such thing as Perfect to me so therefore no such thing as Perfect communication. peole are all different why would you want to all be the same and not have discussions, debates etc. This is how we learn from one another, opinion or belief. You cannot always have true facts on everything and if we did then we would be a very boring planet.

just my 2 cents worth.

Belief and religion should not be connected in this discussion.
I have many beliefs that have nothing to do with religion.Laws are created and written by man not some higher power.You have the right to believe in anything you choose,there shouldn't be laws written to say other wise.

BushidoWarrior,

Religion is based on belief and all of it was written by humans and laws were built upon religion.

Group Belief = Religion

Religion = Law


but I think...

Individual Belief = Freedom


so to get this freedom....
well, you know



I suppose another way of looking at the word "Belief" would be having a belief of what one can do instead of what others cannot do. However, this is just another way of saying...

A. Never harm others, without their consent.
B. Never kill any animal, cause we are all animals.




Not all laws have to be written. Most laws that are upheld are "Common Laws", laws assumed to be laws because of common beliefs.

When speaking of belief, all aspects must be included...
a. Personal Opinions
b. Organized Religions
c. Laws



Of course I have noticed all religions express freedoms, and it is only the followers that express beliefs against others, so then religion would be used as an excuse for the problem and not actually the problem. However, as long as religion exists, it will give something for everyone to hide behind while they wrongfully persecute others as an outlet for their hatred of others beliefs. If we were to take away religion, everyone would have to stand and be judged for their thoughts and actions with nothing to hide behind. They would only be allowed to think positively, not negatively. Of course you could still be angry and speak your mind, but no one will be suppressed like they are now so most of that would fade away.

Take marriage for instance. It is merely a belief and nothing more. So why is this tied into laws? If people want to share and come and go as they please, then this should be allowed.

Most ideas and concepts are pushed on everyone at an early age and most go along with them without ever questioning them. Such as "Dating". It's a word everyone seems to use, but with very little understanding of what it means or how it works. In much the same way, those that reject religions will still fall victim to this by getting married, and so it appears to be more of a concern with how people think rather than what they think.

Oh no, I'm talking in circles again..... I'll shut up now :)

ThothLestat,

Yeah, anyone can believe what they want....

That's what I'm getting at.

An individual Belief is not a set/group/religion Belief.

No one would have their individual beliefs taken from them, it would just be the power for them to impose on the beliefs of others.

When I say religion, I'm referring to Organized Religion and Groups that act politically to dictate how we believe.

Ones belief has nothing to do with religion again I say.

One man can believe there is a god yes.While another does not,ok then.Now,where does it say that you HAVE to belief there is a god.There is no law that I know of written saying you will break this "law" if you do not believe in a god.Other then the Ten Commandments,which are just written by man.Written to keep people in check 2000 years ago.I am a free thinker and do not follow any "laws" written by man in a work of fiction.

There is a big difference between having a belief in something and having "faith".Many people believe in aliens,I do not,as well as a belief that when a person dies they become a spirit or a ghost,I do not.

Remember the definition of belief...

be·lief (b-lf) KEY

NOUN:

1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/belief

At the base of most religions is doctrine. Misconceptions about religions is often the fault of that religion. Education is the key to clarity, as well as the behavior of devoted members.

Beliefs are one thing, Practices relating to beliefs is often a cause for concern, example, some splinter sects of Mormons taking minors as brides.

The more engaged a religion with the affairs of non-believers the more cause for concern.


To impose ideals (religious or political) on others is indimadation, plan and simple.

Often pious people will Claim physical manifastations relating to their religionous beliefs, these same people are often ingnorant of any core doctrine of their faith, they are incompatant devotees, that are componsating for lack of docterine study. These same people are often the most vocal, and thus they become the default representative of the faith. Jehadist, to some is all that Islam produces, this is not the case.. but their is a default.

Then to many assume what others think of their faith.

Again this is where education comes in.

The other way people establish opinions on the faith of others is the candor of Devotees.

to me it is imple, maybe bacause I like things to be clear and simple.

belief is not religion

I got the belief that everyone has good inside and that we have a reason for our existence. I belive the sun will go down tonight and then up tomorow. It is not religion.

That has nothing to do with religion, my religion is something deeper thena simple belief. It is in imprint in my soul, in my heart, my essence.

A belief is simply something that is there. Nothing more.

A religion is something you think about, you have taken the time to analyze to choose to learn to carry to let sink in, that has called you, that you have gone to.

Again, this is my view of things. Does not mean it is yours. That is a belief that you see the way you choose to see. Not a religion. ^^

well I have to disagree as to the comment on the 3rd question, animals piss outside so should we be allowed to do it.. Myself I am not an animal and do not feel that I needto piss outside LOL sorry we have evolved to become intelligent and not act like an animalmy opinion.

plus you say all laws come from religion .. where did you get that information?

I do not feel that religion and belief are the same. yes you have to believe in order to follow a religion yet, you do not have to have a religion to believe something. So technically they are different.

I wanted to say that when I think of Religion I think of FAITH, not Belief yet, that is just me. I feel to follow a Religion you have faith in such Religion to help you through life. having faith is the main stay with religion. just an opinion.

MasqueradeDoll, thanks for your views but I noticed one obvious mistake you made.

Us being animals is not an opinion or a belief, it is a fact. Unless you are a fish or a bird, then you would be correct cause those are not animals. Well, birds might still count as animals, but I thought they were in a different category.

Animals are land creatures that need to drink and eat, piss and shit, and sleep. You do none of these?

Anyway, the point I was making with being able to piss outside wasn't "Should We?", it was "Can We?". And if you were traveling and couldn't find a restroom, which would be more civilized? "To piss by a tree?" or to "Piss yourself?".

Even if you don't agree with being able to piss outside, would you condemn another for simply having this belief?

...and many laws do come from religion. Marriage is one of them. How people live should never be dictated.

To think deeply we must all think of the thought of the thought of the thought of the thought of the thought of the thought of the thought of the thought of the thought of the thought..... and forever so on.....

Seeing things at face value would be the same as being blind. We must see the larger picture, or else we do not see at all.

I am going to make this post as short as possible, but providing an adequette response to each question. I know how I like to ramble on with subjects of intellect.

Your questions are really well thought out, there are certain degrees with which each question is answered in my upcoming book. But by the perameters of a differant guise.

The questions and answers:

1. What makes any Belief different from that of a Religious Belief?

Belief is belief plain and simple as a few other posters have already stated.

I can believe that the light will go on, sure. But this does not mean that I am worshipping the energies that control the on/off switch.

I can believe that a video game may be very well made, but this does not make me want to go to a church of graphics.

I believe that this subject is very well thought out, but it will not change my philosophy or belief system.

The point is, there is casual belief and spiritual belief. This is where I think the title of this thread left out the main term of which form of belief is understood.

2. Why Freedom Of Religion and Not Freedom Of Belief?

This would be a control issue. I am sure that common sense was not in question when the founders of (religion here) were thinking about where the rules are based. For example, many follow the "10 Commandments", but those who do not follow the Commandments themselves have nothing to worry about since they may not "belief" in that religions philosophies.

Again, religion is a spiritual aspect for those who think there may be something beyond the veil of death. In my perspective, there is a freedom of belief both spiritually and casually. I have yet to have anyone tell me what or who to worship or where to go to church.

Nor have I ever had someone tell me what to believe in, contradicting my train of thought on either the spiritual or casual levels. Sure the media does a fine job at taking jabs at all players in the religious game, but this has nothing to do with the way I think as I am not manipulated what others tell me, or try to preach at me. You may claim that there is one God, but if I were a Polytheist, I would simply walk away from the conversation politely, while the individual kept spouting out what I "believed" to be was nonesense.

In my view, I have on a personal level a freedom of choice, whether it is from a religious perspective or otherwise.

3. Why does Law contradict Belief?

Law governs local cities and populations. No one is above the law on a physical level. So no, law cannot contradict belief in anyway shape or form. Spiritual laws may come into play, these laws would not contradict themselves, but may contradict others spiritual belief systems.

4. Would destroying all religions be the answer to real freedom of belief?

Again, this would be based off of spiritual belief. If all religions were "destroyed", then the individual would see with a clear mind without all the naysayers ripping them apart with manipulative tactics, ie join this religion and you will gain a spot in heaven "mumbo jumbo." The individual would realize that religions are a philosophy that may give them an awareness of sorts, but without religion, philosophy would remain. Thus going back to the good old days where metaphysics were the life and philosophy was the conversation of the day rather then the hypocrisy of this day and age. Spirituality would again prevail without needless politicing and money laundering.

There you have my perspective eye, in a nutshell. Thankyou for this thread. It goes well with what my book will encompass though no words will be put into the book from this thread. But it gives me a better perspective as to where to go and what to write.

vvSoulshroudevv

I think you clarified the first question very well.
casual belief and spiritual belief

casual belief being any personal thought and spiritual belief being more with spiritual concepts, what if's, and life after death.

But they both share one thing in common, neither of them are fact. Regardless of how different they are, they are both still beliefs.

You gave very good answers, I just feel there are answers within answers. At the moment I'm pondering how Laws have their part in all of this as to so cunningly deceive billions with one simple word.

1. What makes a belief different from a religious belief is that a belief is when you have a formed opinion about something and you feel strongly about it. Whereas a religious belief is the basic same concept the only difference bein that a higher power or being is believed in.

2. Freedom of Religion and Belief are two different things. You can have an opinion on anything and everything. Freedom of Religion is the choice to choose what religion you want to be in. Freedom of believe is the choice to have an opinion and think like everyone else in the world.

3. Law contradicts belief because Law does not want people and general public to be free thinkers therefore they take away and put in one forced religion.

4. “Destroying” all religions would cause more tension and more risk to everyone and IS NOT the answer to Freedom of Belief. Like i've stated before in this same post Religion and belief are two different things. The freedom to believe in something and the choice of religion are two completely different choices to make. Therefore, “destroying” all religions would do anyone any good. Everything should be worked out instead of “destroyed”

5. Should a line be drawn between everything in every situation? Everyone comes to know facts from falsified things and between right and wrong. A line drawn between facts and beliefs would in a way be stupid. A line has been drawn in the past any time in the future will be no different. Facts and beliefs are two different things and people have the choice in each.

6. No because then nothing would be solved. There have been and always will be times when beliefs will be required to be backed up with facts. If we kept those instances seperate along with everything else then how would we prove those beliefs? It wouldn't get done because we had to keep the facts serpate from the belief.

Destroying all religion would give freedom but not completely,you would have to destroy the government as well, both are controlling factors in this world and both have forced their beliefs on humanity,well the government does certainly and religion did in the past,and perhaps today through fanatic parents.

well I did not say I could not ever do my business outside, in fact i do it when I am camping. I was stating that we are an Intellectual species and should not just piss in someones yard or in corner of soem resturant etc. LOL

your very good at twisting words my dear and I am sure you understood my comment very well.
As to birds and such as far as I know if it lives outside and is of Nature, wild and free it is animal same as our pets they are animals also we all are animals in a certain degree. Yet, some have evolved and improved themselves over the years.

just my observation. but, I am just 1 small fish in the pond.

as far as Marriage being a law, I do not see where it is a law, I mean people live together for many many years without being married, there is no law that says* YOU HAVE TO MARRY YOUR PARTNER*.... Freedom of choice is still in effect last time I looked.

this can be discussed till the cows come home and people will still have a different opinion or view on it, it is what makes us all who we are.

To believe, is to expect. Every person that I asked about their religious believe, always come to the final "punch", Heaven. Yes, they all expect to go to an eternal place, where "bad" things doesn't happen. Is it a misconception? may be yes or may be no. There is no fact in religion, period.

Well stated Markus, it is often the people who proclaim divine confirmation that insist they have something more relative then faith (belief without evidence), yet to
inquire (even sincerly) about their experience, often incites them, commonly they resort to accusing the person inquiring of "Offending their belief." It is not uncommon for fellow believers to question such claims of divine confirmations. A fact that is often lost on those that would convince others that they had an experience.

Thanks to everyone for all the great feedback

I think we can all agree now on (Destroying All Religions) would not be a solution to freedom of belief like I thought it was before posting this topic.

Mischka, I think you answer number 3 very well. You said "Law contradicts belief because Law does not want people and general public to be free thinkers therefore they take away and put in one forced religion."

So if Law uses Religion to control people, why do people still insist on having any religion? Why not create religions and deny them being religions?

Could people simply be clinging to Religion because they are told it's a freedom, much the same way people are tricked into buying a home they'll never own because even after it's paid, the city can still take it from them at any time?

How is Religion used? I'm just brainstorming here, searching for an answer to how we might break religion away from Law.



BitchFromHell, hehe you got me on the marriage issue. I guess people aren't forced to marry, so you got me there. However, once a couple is married, many many many laws begine to dictate everything you do and how you live, but you are right.... it's not forced.

Oh.... and the belief people should be able to piss outside, I forgot to add, only if it's one of these two options. On grass so it can go into the soil or in a sewer drain which is where toilet piping goes anyway.


hmmmm something I said much earlier in this topic.... "the problem isn't what people think, it's how they think". I get the notion Law uses our own misunderstandings against us and uses religion as the scape goat. In Law, they are not taught to think at all, only to be robotic and do as ordered. They read rules from books and obey them without asking why.

Seems here, we the people have always had the full control to change the world. So what held us back?

a. Being Disconnected From Each Other.
b. Having Different Life Styles.
c. Having Different Interests.
d. Being Controlled By Money.
e. Removing Liberties Through Beliefs Instead Of Embracing Them.

(just more brainstorming) most laws are corrupt so there must be a way to change them.

note: All Laws were created because of beliefs.

The fact is, I know the light will turn on because the electric bill is paid, therefore I believe it will turn on because I have electricity.

The fact is, the video game is very well made, it has excellent graphics, but I am not about to go to the church of scientology if they say they invented graphics themselves.

The fact is, I believe this subject to be very well thought out, but I am not about to change my point of view or philosophy because of ass backword ideas that may come from posts within this thread.

I can play at this game all night, since fact is being a bit misconstrude with belief and this game is being based on the individuals perspective, which in my mind, makes little to no sense what so ever. In my mind, definitions are being a bit miscude.

1.What makes any Belief different from that of a Religious Belief?

I guess because a belief is your own, while a religion one is like a set of rules that a group believe in them.

2. Why Freedom Of Religion and Not Freedom Of Belief?

I think because since a religion includes practice, people think that by not practicing anything, you don’t believe in anything, which is not true. I think a philosophy should be free to be expressed as well and counted as important as much as a religion. I also believe that someone can believe in a religion but decides to practice it differenly or not completley agree with everything or decides to connect it with another religion. Therefore I'd include: and why not freedom of practice?

3. Why does Law contradict Belief?

I can’t answer to this, because the laws of my country are Christian influenced. This question applies only to certain countries. Example Islam countries have laws based on their religion. Honestly I see more contradictions in a religion belief itself.

4. Would destroying all religions be the answer to real freedom of belief?

No people would always find excuses to kill and don’t get along. People will stereotype and discriminate anyway. Also, if a religion is the only way for a person to find hope and a goal in life, they’re free to believe so, like anyone is free to have no religion and/or beliefs.

5. Should there be a line drawn between Facts and Beliefs?

There’s already a line but not everyone gets it. To have faith means to believe without asking for facts, so some just believe without facts because that’s what they chose to, or that’s what they were taught to do, others prefer to believe in something that has facts, others don’t believe in anything even with facts.

6. If we only communicated Facts, and stated Beliefs as (Opinions), would we have perfect communication?

That is if perfection exists and still it won’t resolve anything. Communication is ruined in many things. Example, it is not always easy to express a thought with communication. Thoughts are more complex.

I think I figured it out!

It's not the belief that's the problem, it's when a belief is accepted, thought of, and spoken as fact... then that's the problem.

Just as I said earlier, it's not what people think but how they think.

This just dawned on me while remembering something Albert Einstein once said. He said "We cannot solve problems at the same level of thinking at which we started them."


So I think all Belief Systems which contain any hierarchy must be changed at the same time all Laws associated with any of these said systems.

Furthermore, there are no rules saying what a religion has to consist of so under Freedom Of Religion legal section, will have to be something saying "No groups or communities consisting of any hierarchy"

Not destroying any religions, just how they manipulate and control people. Instead of letting them influence Laws on us, we will create Laws to police them and keep them in line.

If they do not comply, they will fit the perfect description of a Cult and be shut down faster than Wako.


What do you all think?

Am I on to something here?

Yes that's it, a religion is definied as a religion when it gets popular and accepted by someone of power. There is always someone powerful behind it otherwise it won't get accepted.

Now your speculating a conspiracy theory ~Selective~, I would leave this part up to the shadow governments agenda. As they have been doing this for years now. I think your frame of mind started in or around the early 1900's.

Going good so far with the speculation process within this thread, keep it up... It has peaked my interest.

"No groups or communities consisting of any hierarchy"
That's insane. EVERY group has some sort of hierarchy. It isn't necessarily a bad thing. Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, rotary clubs, chambers of commerce, homeowners associations, Vampire Rave, etc.

You'd outlaw everything that doesn't fit your definition of what's an acceptable community.

That's Totalitarianism.

What's this 'Freedom' word anyway?

We are all prisoners of our own ignorance and the saddest part, we are the ones that build the walls that keep us.

Such valid points everyone makes here. I respect such thoughts and wish the world would take off it's blindfold and let us go.

that is a lot of questions and its late so maybe i'll answer them another time, i just wanted to say bravo!! that fits my sentiments exactly. i'm glad to know that other people have the same thoughts as i do and recognize the....conformity and hypocrisy of our culture.

Yeah freedom does not exist anyway.

If it existed there'd be an Utopia and that can't exist.

Selective..if someone believes in God,but they know nothing about religion.lets say they never even heard of anything in any religion.They have their own ideas of God taken from their own imagination..What would it be considered then? Religion?Religious belief?

Good question, I also wonder why people want to belief in something.

It appears to me that mankind has a need to believe in something of a "Higher power"No matter if it falls under the form or religion or otherwise.

Hmm... which I guess makes the person hope in something, help her to survive.

A common denominator of beliefs is Socialization, a set ideal brings people together.

I agree, that's why churches to bring people together.

I agree in part.I only say in part because personally,I dont seek out others when it comes to that and I am sure there are others who feel the same.It is a deeply personal thing,that privately brings me an inner peace and comfort that no social activity can.But hey,everyone is different.

I know, for me too beliefs are personal too, others prefere to share.

In fact when I was religious I preferred to pray alone.

I think it is a bit weird that some would impose their belief upon another to the point that many religions have.I mean seriously,no one on this planet knows if theirs is the right one or not.And to be honest,some of the behaviours associated with many religions are far,FAR from behaviours I would deem desirable.But I think Im getting off the subject with that statement.

If your personal belief makes you feel good or right with yourself,strengthens you and helps you face each moment(or most) in a manner that is productive,what does it matter what you are believing in your heart to anyone else.

That's how it should be.

Socializing is not the sole element for people joining a religion, just one common denominator.

There are people who pretend to convert for a chance to exploite a congragation.

Motives range from personal emrichment, to seeking assurance during death, or to cope with grief.

People that predominatly seek socialization are likely to be stretched between many different religions as well.

Plenty conflicted folk.

A belief seems to me to be very generic. This is a philosophical question and it will ultimately deal with the one thing you are asking about and that is "belief".

Religion is usually organized with a "belief" in some sort of higher power than man. Whereas a belief in general, could be about almost anything. We are free to believe many things depending on where we live but the law regulates how far we can go with that belief. For instance, we regulate certain rules of conduct because society at large has set certain standards. Sometimes we don't all agree on them but they are supposedly created for the benefit of the majority.

Belief is not just religion, belief is in a person perception of everything, society, politics and science. belief is structure of ones life and what they seem to conform too.

Well stated mollidew, and Cadre

Too many want to be considered as exceptional for having a particular belief. Not everyone is against religion, or beliefs, some are rather indifferent.

every persons beliefs are different. It comes down to what and how they feel.

Some beliefs (such as religion) can be what someone is looking for.

The law is there to protect us. Some ppl would find it offensive if they saw nudist walking around. That is why the law is in place. It isnt to break our beliefs but to protect those who could be effected.

the human race has to have soem kind of belief/faith/religion whatever you want to call it because it offers up hope to them that there is soemthing better than what they currently have.

Without hope of any kind then we would just wander around in a stupor, why even exist, if there is no means to the end. Hope that makes sense. I mean I donot care who they are they do have belief in soemthing or soemone even, it gives them the purpose of hoping that in the end they will be rewarded into a better place than this hell on earth as some may call it.

Without you have only depression, despair, anger,hatred of everything and each other. I mean why do you bother to even get up everyday to live your life in any form? the hope to have something better, maybe I am wrong yet.

there are so many different reason for *Belief* and also many misconceptions of it. Belief is within each individual.

We all have some Conviction of something or another
just my opinion.

Yet beliefs are sometimes pushed on others with different structure and this is just immoral. for everyones belief is a sacred item in our own lifes structure.

I agree some are forced to believ a certain way, yet it is still our choice as to if we really do believe something. I mean I have my own convictions about certain things and many are like well that is dumb ok maybe for them yet, for me it is my own feelings on the subject.

I guess I'll have to dissect religions and expose them for the lies they are, set up to control everyone with fear, hatred, and ignorance.

If churches only exist as a place for people to gather, then the internet is now the new church to replace all churches. Unlike the churches of religions, we actually get to speak with others and avoid the brainwashing speech that so many mindless zombie sheep appear to be attracted to.

One should chose the line with own conscious. NO matter religions are of fool peepal. they all are having goodness among its line. but living the life your own way one must not ignore goodness. its the base of religion and mankind and alongwith this you should think of the Universe's Superpower what it may be which controlling everything.

I am humble and make correction

Please replace this statement (wrongly typed it was error)

NO matter religions are of fool peepal.

with

No matter religions are not of fool peepal.


right phrase:

No matter, religions are not of fool peepal. That is prevailing from thousands of years and consists major population of the state.

there are beliefs...there are facts...

i would say that one should not let beliefs cloud facts, ever.
that said, there are alot of beliefs that we have come to think of as morality (dont steal, dont kill, dont lie, etc) that are pretty good beliefs.
some things will always be subjective (such as those beliefs above).
if i were to have a neighbor i would rather he or she be one that held such beliefs so that i could feel i trusted them and wouldnt have to watch my back quite so much.

that said....
if someone believes that pi equals 3, i dont want that person to build my house, or a bridge, or ...pretty much build anything.

do religions force beliefs on others? ofcoarse. once christianity did it (very little now regardless of what others might say), now islam does it constantly (travel to any muslem country if you dont believe me).
if you outlaw religion, arent you then just forcing your belief on another? your belief being that their belief is wrong and your belief is right.


so...my thought is one should be objective when working with the physical world, keep ones beliefs more to oneself rather than try to change the minds of others, and dont try to force others to conform to your own thoughts and opinions.

at some point one begins to have to discuss how much of belief creates a culture, and it becomes a very sticky discussion indeed.
~W~

I understand what you have said completely. I think in a perfect world everyone should be free to follow there beliefs, but should that ever be the case then you would be allowing people the freedom to steal, murder and generally have a lack of regard for human life and/or there surroundings. This especialy would be apparent in teenagers.

Even if you could legally piss against a tree, would you like to see it? Would you like to have to step over it? Smell it even? I dont think so.
Its the same with spitting, I dont like seeing people spit, its disgusting.

Without laws the world becomes dog eat dog and in that world Street Law takes effect. It would only do more harm then good.

When i speak of people being free i mean in the sense of not having to work 40hr weeks to survive on the breadline. I mean not being finanicaly crippled or socialy dejected because you dont follow pre-set notions. The ability to think for yourself without being told you are wrong from the get go and most importantly, the freedom to stand anywhere in your country and say whatever you like, so long as its not geared to cause harm.

The freedom is beleif is impossible. It will only ever exist in a perfect world were everyone is sensible and equal.

Great thread btw. :)

that perfect world will prolly never exist. people will always worship something in a way that will have a negative impact.
they might worship jesus or allah, they may worship the earth...or just humanity in general. they may worship logic and reason (and at the same time become very illogical and unreasonable! lol).
whatever it may be, perfection in my humble opinion is out of our grasp. so i repeat, many of our beliefs then help humanity be less offensive to each other.
~W~

that perfect world will prolly never exist. people will always worship something in a way that will have a negative impact.
they might worship jesus or allah, they may worship the earth...or just humanity in general. they may worship logic and reason (and at the same time become very illogical and unreasonable! lol).
whatever it may be, perfection in my humble opinion is out of our grasp. so i repeat, many of our beliefs then help humanity be less offensive to each other.
~W~

.. too many questions.

But, it is my belief, 'man can do good.' so.. I try to.

Why is a belief different from religious beliefs? [or something close to that]

There exists a psychological theory that suggest there are 3 types of "beliefs'. There are attitudes, beliefs and values. in this system, an attitude is something you think and have a side you take but it is not that big a deal with you. You can change your attitude when face3d with evience to the contrary. Cognitive dissonance theory works on attutudes. it does not usually work on changing the other two.

Beliefs are a bit more fundamental. They are based on strongly held information and are very difficult to change but, given good arguments and facts to the contrary; they can change.

Values, the third part of the system are those "beliefs" that are so fundamental to your core being that NOTHING COULD EVER CHANGE THEM. When someone attcks your values, you respond irationally. If they are your friend, they become your enemy.

So, to answer your question. Other beliefs differ from religious beliefs because for most people their religion is part of their core being and they cannot change what they believe and become irrational when you try to do it.

But then again, you will become irrational when your core values are attacked.

food4thought

I chuckle at this, because something is a upon to happen.