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Supposedly soul loss can occur if a soul has had to disassociate itself from its body alot. If a person has suffered because of abuse,chemical abuse,or some other traumatic situation the person couldn't cope with parts of the soul may disassociate. Leaving a person "fragmented". This may lead to depression and anxiety or the general feeling that something is missing. Has anyone out there heard of a similar situation? Can a Shaman fix this?

It's called, "Soul Retrieval."

There are shamans doing this kind of work. But believe it or not, it is not native to native America but Peruvian. So be careful of who you go to. This stuff is a money maker to them and a favorite of the New agers too. Also called "silver Soul Retrieval."

Not saying that it doesn't work though.

I do not believe in either soul loss or retrieval. If the body is still living, then the individual still has their soul intact. Its not like that dead person is walking around, soulless, going to a shaman who escorts their soul back into the body.

Metaphysically it is impossible for the soul to be severed from the astral cord. This cord is what keeps the soul attached to the physical body. IF this cord is severed, then the body dies. There is really no question, if's, and's, or but's about it.

Thus, I do not believe in the romanticizing of any sort of soul loss to bring on any theoretical retrieval at all.

But, if the soul is tampered with by any outside force and is forced to reside side by side with another soul that has strapped itself to the body (this is possible), then I can see where demonization can come into play. If the soul is severed from the astral cord while this other soul is taking over, then an "exorcism" could come into play to retrieve the other soul and banish the one that has taken over.

Unless of course, the soul that was severed automatically dispersed as in no longer existed because it was severed, therefore being null and void, to where it would be impossible to retrieve it. The remaining soul would have the physical body to itself if this were the case.

If they charge money they are not legitimate. If they have not a teacher who went through the apprenticeship, they are not legitimate. You don't just wave a magic wand and proclaim it to be so; or read a book. There are many trials and tests that one must endure.

I completed a 25 year apprenticeship of what is called the Turquoise road,in the Native American culture.
The Green road is a 15 year apprenticeship, and the Red road is the way of our people, culture,and spirit. The red road is the one everyone hears about. The term Shaman is Russian, but describes a 25 year apprenticeship. So, that word tends to be thrown around as a catch all. There are over 500 Nations in the Native American culture, each with their own language,so the words for the different paths,like Shaman vary from Nation to Nation. Most Nations have lost this knowledge. I know many reservation and traditional full bloods that tell my there are VERY few of the Turquoise road left. And that many reservations have lost that craft all together.

To answer you about soul retrieval, yes it is possible. It depends on if it is their soul, or their spirit that is lost. They are two different things. Also, if the loss has been 10 years or more, it could be permanent. I am willing to speak with you further on this matter if you wish.

"It depends on if it is their soul, or their spirit that is lost. They are two different things."

thank you ~Realthing~, this is what I was trying to get at. The soul and spirit are two differant things, but not in the romanticised notion.

The soul is a living entity, whereas the spirit would be where the individuals emotions, empathy, etc are and what keeps that individual alive in that sense. If the spirit is lost, then it would lead to great anger as well as a lot of negative effects on their life. Without the spirit intact, the body will simply be a shell of its former self with great depression in swarms within the individuals life.

There are Native American rituals especially through the Navajo, Cherokee, and Sioux or Dakota. But don't get me wrong, plenty of other Nation Tribes have these rituals, but those certain few as ~Realthing~ has already explained... have a better understanding of those rituals and ceremonies because of the Ancestors teachings that have not been lost over time.

I think we need to get to the bottom of what "soul" loss is compared to what "spirit" loss is, for the sake of the wanderers coming to this thread and romanticising about their "souls" actually being lost. Rather then any other excuse for being lost in a fit of depression, being unable to cope with traumatic lifes experiences or something along those lines.

Last thing we all need are people coming up and posting that they need their souls retrieved because some yahoo told them that they stole it or some nonesense. Oh, bother...

If the soul is still in the realm of the living, maybe it can be retrieved, but I don't really believe in it.

I believe that it is possible for the soul to partially disconnect from the body and that the spirit and soul are the same thing. As was mentioned in the original post, the soul might be constantly disconnected from the body because the mind is suffering from depression, or emotional instabilty.
After all the years that people have put "mind, body and soul" together as a trio, i think it would make sense that if the mind becomes fragmented, the soul might partially detach itself from the mind. However, of course it will never leave the body, it's just ... attending the meeting without really being spoken to or looked upon. Perhaps that is how the inability to feel emotions or appropriate emotions is created. Or the need to satisfy an emptiness or inflict pain comes from?

The fragmented term is a 'catch - all' term. Don't take it so literal. It generally means; scattered, hurt, multiple planes of existence, attached to other things, cords, past lives, etc..

Anything that prevents you from being the whole complete you in this present state of 'now.'

The general belief is that you are not all here . It may help not to think as a white-man. You'll only over think it.

billy the just said:
"it's called, "Soul Retrieval."

There are shamans doing this kind of work. But believe it or not, it is not native to native America but Peruvian. So be careful of who you go to. This stuff is a money maker to them and a favorite of the New agers too. Also called "silver Soul Retrieval."

its not native to native america? need to make a confused scooby noise here. no idea what that ment.
oh...and peru, last time i checked was part of america...south america. and anyone born there (or anything created there) would be native.

all in all, i agree with soul shroud. if there is life, there is a soul. i think there might be one exception to this: if a person is in a comatose state, i think there might come a separation of the soul and physical body.
~W~

For clarity: I meant North America since many believe here that it is a native American Indian system of healing - it is not. But for some reason it is the native American Indian shaman (or so they call themselves) that is using this practice. Better?

actually, a real"shaman" where they are russian or whatever, would never say they were. The rest of the village calls them that, but they don't call themselves that. It is very strict protocol. the flip to that is that they can say their name but the villagers can not. It is about humility and preventing abuse of the word/title. there are alot of wannabes giving the real ones a bad name.but that is like anything.plenty of people go around saying they are rich or successful or whatever,and they aren't.

"if a person is in a comatose state, i think there might come a separation of the soul and physical body."

I agree partially with this. But only partially because during the comatose state, anything can happen with the body, though metaphyically speaking, my point is that when the soul seperates from the body, the body dies.. No if's and's, or but's about it.

About that 2. grams of weight being lifted from the body, I am wondering if this happens before going into the coma or not. If it does not, then the partial point is a bit moot scientifically.

I have an interesting twist to add to this post. I a liong time ago had a tramatic incident, It was well over ten years ago and I attempted suicide, in doing htis I experienced something I rarley speak of. However I was out with freinds one day and we all decited to get a picture of our auro taken. It was facinating whatching as everyone had it done and seeing the parts of the aura on screen. Everyone had a bright white light on the top of their aura's, which I was told is the crown to the aura, or the spirits link to the heavans. Well when mine was taken, there is no white light in mine. I have always had some issues with depression since my incident. I was wondering if maybe its possible this has happened to myself and curious to see if anyone else has further info on the potentail of the soul leaving the body?

That white light has nothing to do with the soul leaving the body. It is there because those individuals are connected in a way to the "heavens", theologically speaking.

The white light connects the body to the higher self or the soul. If someone does not have it, it does not mean that the soul is lost from the body, but that the souls field is damaged. It needs to be healed with chakra cleaning or some other form of spiritual healing.

If a traumatic event occured in your life that made you expierence some ethereal behavior, something that you witnessed that others would find arcane or "other worldly", then this could have damaged your field to a point where your soul would be a bit transparent from you, but not missing. There could be a hole in your essence.

Per Billy: "The fragmented term is a 'catch - all' term. Don't take it so literal. It generally means; scattered, hurt, multiple planes of existence, attached to other things, cords, past lives, etc..

Anything that prevents you from being the whole complete you in this present state of 'now.'

The general belief is that you are not all here . It may help not to think as a white-man. You'll only over think it."

This sounds like every crazy person I've seen wandering the streets talking to themselves.

Are the insane souless?

Then why does taking their meds seem to restore their souls?

Okay soulshrowd. I'm not saying that I believe any of this stuff at all. I'm wondering if its possible is all because I feel a sense of dullness due to traumatic events. At least I think thats why. Would this be what you are referring to as spirit loss? And if so, how does one get it retrieved? You can message me if you wish.

Some people do believe that the soul can be temporaily separated from the body

And how does this happen?

at the point of dying like when a surgery is going south
u feel like u r watching the entire operation from above
at that moment your soul is on the verge of leaving your body or is already gone

i think the soul never leaves . but this happens to one i think it develops the soul into the person you see before you . it creates you . you have the choice to let it consume you or control you . i believe if your in control it creates more power for one .

sometimes the will to die or the will to end the suffering results in the release of the soul and whether or not the soul of the person makes the decision to enter the "light"
Enter-bye bye soul
Doesn't enter-the soul goes back to the body

It is my belief that a body possess many souls. When we take into consideration alcohol, drugs, mental illness, dreams, unconscious thought, ect..., these many souls take their turn steering the vessel. My example would be the numerous studies on individuals with mutiple personality disorders.

if we take into account the belief of past lives, then it would be appropriate to say that we have many souls

Not hardly, many past lives... One soul, many bodies. Thought this was understood.

I might be too skeptic, but I think that no other but oneself is able to deal with one`s soul problems.
Of course, shamans could offer you a more spiritual view of the method, but in my opinion, it is all based on communication with the self, on a larger self-consciousness and awareness. Your soul is yours to mend :)

I think there is a misconcept here between issues. People that disassociate themselves during abusive senerios is known as "Split Personality Disorder or Syndrome"
They delebrately force their minds elsewhere as someone else to escape the humilation and trauma.
"Sybil" being one of the highest documented cases ever in history.

But as far as electrively leaving the body in a physical sense, vVsoulShroudVv is very accurate. The body would die.

Mind Scire into another form or being is very different, and must be done carefully, cause you could lose your soul and thus die in reality.

I'm sure you yourself have experienced this during REM sleep, when a dream seems so realistic and even feels real and a sudden mishap occurs and you JOLT awake.
Your soul just jumped back, cause if it didn't, you would die.

It can be done electively with self restrait and control, but you have to come back always to the physical Plane/Realm.

"Dissociative identity disorder (DID) is a psychiatric diagnosis that describes a condition in which a person displays multiple distinct identities or personalities (known as alter egos or alters), each with its own pattern of perceiving and interacting with the environment. In the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems the name for this diagnosis is multiple personality disorder. In both systems of terminology, the diagnosis requires that at least two personalities routinely take control of the individual's behavior with an associated memory loss that goes beyond normal forgetfulness; in addition, symptoms cannot be the temporary effects of drug use or a general medical condition. [1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissociative_identity_disorder

1. Mental Health: Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality Disorder)". Webmd.com. http://www.webmd.com/content/article/118/112901.htm. Retrieved 2007-12-10.



This is considered a very rare condition. Others might suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder rather than multiple personalities due to circumstances.

I have to agree about the soul as far as a faith based belief. The soul leaves in beliefs of some due to severe depression and other things of this nature. This belief is connected to what some refer to as "Walk-ins". The original soul leaves and another soul steps in. In Spiritualism a body cannot live without a soul present and that is their explanation for SIDS and still borns. The soul either doesn't stay or never enters the body. All beliefs that are not substantiated other than anecdotally through regressions and the like. My personal belief is one cannot lose their soul, for want of a better word, and the idea is just superstition.

If I have repeated anything someone else has posted I apologize because it takes forever to read all the posts, lol.

When did the soul ( psyche) become supernatural..

Spirtit is more referenced by occult/supernatural believers.

The soul.. Mind.. Will.. And in part Emotions though not tangable.. can be invested in varying degrees. What is returned/or not returned on those investments taxes, or enriches the soul/ psyche . To lose ones soul .. As mentioned not literally so.. is perhaps to be left with only the bare esstenstial. To allow ones soul/ psyche to be corrupted, or tainted has an equal determental effect.

Some are blurring the line arrbitrally between " Spirit, and soul here.

I think I understand what "Soul Loss" is. If I follow the definition of the term, then yes, I would say that I've had lost my soul a couple of times thus far. The feeling that something is "missing" in my life has always been there. Questions like, "Who am I?" "What am I here for?" "What do I want out of this?" runs through my mind all the time. I think it's simliar to the discussion as to why some people "lose" their psychic abilities, or maybe the ability to "see" things. In the end, it's the soul that is the essence of a being. I am not sure as to how one gets back the soul that one has lost. I think that meditating, prayers, rituals, or just spending time by oneself, like maybe discovering hobbies, music, art will help one in "finding" oneself quite fast. It may take years for some, or even a day for the lucky ones. Thing is, it's not a smooth road. Like life, finding oneself is a bumpy trip!

Thanks Roma...that explains a lot :)

BTW, Sybil was a great movie! I thought that was one of Sally Field's best performances.

The soul can become lost if you astral travel improperly or in cases of possession.

But feeling like something is missing can come from being traumatized can occur, in which, it damages the soul & can be put back together, which is what shamans do, it can cost an arm & a leg by most shamans in todays society, I have become an adept in this matter but all I charge for are the materials because I do not believe in using my gifts for profit.

astral projection?

Again, the soul can never become "lost" or misplaced during the state of astral travel. The physical body would "DIE". Period.

I do not know where you people get the idea of a soul being lost, when considering the silver string theory that connects the soul to the physical body. If this string becomes severed, the physical body would die immediately. Without retrieval, it is called death. There is no way around it.

The physical body could become possessed, the soul that owns said body could come into contact with an entity that refuses to disengage contact with it, thus a small fued would begin, causing physical possessive traits.

But it is again theological theory that if the soul that owns said body looses the fued, then the entity would gradually take over. This has yet to be proven. Too much horror movie watching, me thinks.

The only way I can think of that the soul can be misplaced with the exception of possession, is astral travel. I'll explain, if you astral travel without somebody there as an anchor to this plain; because you can't anchor your astral self to your body; then you could get lost in the astral plain and it could take anywhere from a few days to a few years, or never, to find your body, but when this happens, you body doesn't die, it enters a comatose state for as long as the soul remains separated from the body.

I dont think its a matter of the soul losing pieces..but the soul just being damaged...but I suppose if that were to happen..and you did lose parts of your soul-it would not be an easy task to retrieve the pieces and theres no telling you ever would anyways.

What about astral sex? Has anyone experienced this?

I have tried on occasion to find out where the idea of the silver cord came from but it is vague. I know I heard a lot of this when I read about NDEs and belonged to IANDS for awhile. There is no real proof except from those who have had out of body experiences whether spontaneous, purposeful or near death. Many, many state this so I believe there is something attaching our soul to the body and when detached we die. Some metaphysical people state if the soul doesn't enter the body in the womb or shortly after birth the baby will die. I have also read over the years about walk-ins who very often change places with those who are contemplating suicide. Ruth Montgomery wrote a lot on this topic and coined the term but it was known before her time. She just made it a popular topic. Personally much of the information comes from word of mouth so it is dependent on belief really.

Some mentioned Sybil. Her name was Shirley Ardell Mason and she died in 1998. You have to remember that movies sometimes aren't as fact based as the real thing. She was an artist and art teacher as an adult. You can find her in Wikipedia under her real name. You can also read at this URL about the controversy regarding her case.

http://www.astraeasweb.net/plural/controversy.html


You can read here on a website created by a friend of hers where she talks about things she experienced knowing Shirley. She has also written a book about her.

http://www.sybilsfriend.com/

Interesting topic. IAW the creator, the soul is mentioned as a living thing attached to a body, if I am reading it correct. And as the body go to a metamorphic, due to substance abuse, alcohol or drugs, then, the soul go away and become loss in a different plane. Correct. Well, I don't think that the situation is like that. For me, the Soul, (if It exist), only can manifest itself after the body cease to exist due to death. The after life of the soul, who really can tell, nobody. There is no scientific evidence to prove that the Human body contained a soul. The soul was created by...who??? there is no answer!!!!

a shaman...possibly...


a psychologist...also possibly.

hard to know without seeing someone tho.

some shamen (what is the plural of shaman anyway?), might be helpful...some not ...depends on talents and ability.
~W~

I believe that a soul could become lost but only upon death. And that it could be put back on track so to speak with those that know how to do it.

And yet, no one possesses the knowledge, we can only speculate to the outcome.

You could possibly help the soul back to the deceased persons body by having some sort of ritual? But then again, if a person died before finding their soul it would be impossible for the soul to reach the body because the body was no longer living. I think that a soul maybe can be damaged, but never lost. Your soul is the thing within you that gives you faith, love, compassion and makes you the person that you are. Impossible to lose it.

Well if you believe in the soul, no one has any proof that it even exists but...
The soul is considered the essence of a person right, it decides on how we should behave, so if something traumatic happened to someone, it would change the way that they behave, is that soul loss or life experience, every event we come across in our life changes us, for the better or worse.

Also your theory would suggest that if bad experiences remove something from the soul, good would add to it.

A serial killer could then argue that its not their fault they kill, life has been bad to them and their soul has been lost. They had no control on their actions.

umm call me stupid but isnt the Soul supposed to be made up of energy??? and if so why could it not lose some of that said energy?? I mean energy transforms all the time into different things doesnt it??? I mean how can you prove that you die if your soul seperates from your body and who is this expert that states this???and who says we have a silver cord???? this is all just hearsay a far as I can tell. i mean its interesting and all and am game to learn more??? but would really like some answers to some of those questions. I mean who's to say i cant just write a book and get it published and say look i have proven it, its published right??? wheres the evidence for it?? if there is none then its all opinions and speculation and anybody could be right. I mean who is really to say what is right or wrong on this subject??? and i dont know about that dying thing in your dreams because i have had very realistic dreams of death once it was a fall to my death and i experienced the actually hitting and dying part yes white light and all. saw people that were dead and visited with them for awhile then i woke up afterwards i felt bad for days hurt from head to foot as though i had hit the ground hard so who is to say my soul didnt seperate and went somewhere else then i never saw a silver cord ~shrugs~ just was curious and had some questions is all. for it is a very deep subject that seems to deal with many more areas and fields..... Thank you ~gets off my soapbox and awaits answers to my ignorance~

Soul to me, as in psyche is not a corpreal form, or some emboding energy.

The Will is the " substance" of soul. To assign quantity to every concept is a curious behaviour.

I suspect that some here are entwineing soul, and spirit.

Spirit is the " product" of personality, again people objectify a concept.

Ever been to a Spirit Rally?

Ever eaten Soul Food?

A rally to bolster spirit.

Food to fortify the soul.

Why invest so much of your personality, or Will to anything?

To me there are Shiny people, and Dim people.

seems this thread has suddenly died i wonder why??? i was awaiting some answers from the community to help me understand this i wasnt hammering anyone just curious with questions i thought this is what the forums are about

I find this thread to be informative of peoples ideals of the elusive Soul.

most people see the soul and the spirit as two names for the same non corporeal aspect of what it is that makes someone who they are.
seem that the only way one could lose ones soul would be to actually die.
~W~

See.... i was unaware someone could lose their soul, or any part of it, since that is the vital will of someone, the "man behind the curtain" so to speak. It's you stripped of all your tools.
So to lose yourself? Or part of yourself? i didn't think they could break.
i'm not sure i understand.

a body without a soul...wouldnt it be basically catatonic then? alive but completely unaware?

if someone was truly without a soul, it would seem like it would be without will, or intellect.
~W~

It'd be a zombie, highly influenced by anything that didn't go directly against instinct, i think.

Well I don't believe your soul ever leaves you. You may check out emotionally or mentally, but you still have your soul. Your soul has that soul memory of what you are here to do. Traumatic events suck ass but they are part of our soul's evolutionary purpose.

Exactly if you think of your soul in terms of your personality, bad events don't remove your personality, it may just change it, depending upon the kind of person you are, some can deal with traumatic events better than other, doesn't mean their soul is larger or better somehow, its just the person they are.
Soul loss would kind of say, if you believe in any afterlife, then you could possibly move on with half a soul, half a personality.

~W~

Well stated, regarding a noncorpreal asspect.

In that context, a person can resign their soul, and spirit to a cause ( positive, or negative) the cause then benifits from the collective investment of participents, returns, or deplition very by cause.

So it isn't an actual loss of soul, just a trait that is laying dormant from what i'm gathering.
Ok i get it, thankies

Me and my mom were just talking about this the other day..
My mom has been through so much more then most peopl have in their life, and suffers with extreme depression due to these events.. After my dad was killed my mom just wasn't the same..
My mom is on alot of medications due to the fact that she had polio, scoliosis, Fybro Myalgia (I believe that is how you spell it) she also has had three back surgery's which because of the injuries to her spine she now has six rods and eight bolts holding her spine together, as well as five cadaver disks. she can't remember much or think straight alot of the time... Anyway to the point...
The other day I looked into her eyes, and I got the coldest feeling down my spine and in my heart..
I looked at her and she looked soulless. Even talking about this upsets me greatly.. She seems just a shell. Tho she can walk, talk, function normally. She's not like my mom was.. When I look in her eyes, hug her, whatever.. I feel no soul there.. Its just a body..
So to experience this first had.. I believe in some cases its not just laying dormant. In some cases, the soul dies before the body does.
With everything that has happened to her, and what meds she has had to take in her life, how many times she has actually died.. Its truly amazing that her body hasn't died yet, but she has died and been brought back to life many many times.. I think sometimes the soul can't get back into the body, and it either gets lost or it dies..
Bc when you look in the eyes of your mother, and don't see the soul inside that you have seen for the past 19 years of your life, and everyday for the past year since then looked into those same eyes, and have seen that same sense of nothing. You start to believe the way I do..

Soul retrieval was never meant for the general public. In fact, very few needed it for healing in the past. Since we have more ancient and older souls being embodied (born) today, you are hearing more about this technique. But still, not THAT many people need it.

A fragmented soul does NOT happen because of drugs or too many out of body experiences or any other mishap from living but it MAY be indirectly a result from having a fragmented soul from birth. Yes, a fragmented soul comes from birth. A person is literally born that way.

It is believed that when a strong soul is reborn into the physical, it doesn't take its whole soul with it. The soul is determined to do other things and experiences at the same time as this one life-time. It fragments itself!

This is why a Shaman is needed to bring ALL parts together. A Soul retrieval.

Too bad none of this is taught anymore. But then again, it wasn't meant for the masses anyway.

Its probably best its not practiced anymore, people now seem to abuse power so much.. I mean of course you had your power crazy people from day one, but now it seems any random person can abuse any power they know or hold.

well im still not sure about all this but it seems possible to lose part of your soul i had a very traumatic experience when i was younger and my lil bro died am not going to get into the details but after his death i was no longer myself im told still to this day im told that i have a huge black spot where my fun and joy used to reside and its like i just lost it it was there then it was gone poof and try as i might i have never gotten it back is like a whole side of me disappeared i feel a part of me is empty and not by choice like i was violated and had something stolen from me.. then i had a time i was in ICU for 13 hours i am told i came out of that changed almost back to myself after all those years but i still have this spot that seems gone that i dont seem able to recapture like im not complete any more and no its not the same feeling you get losing a loved one I am no stranger to losing friends and family and accept that things must change but again who is to say it isnt possible to have a piece of your soul leave you under certain circumstances

I've had people sell me their souls... Does that count?