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I have heard so much about Lilith supposedly being the mother of all vampires, but where did that assumption come from?

I have found this:

"Lilith is a female Mesopotamian night demon believed to harm male children. In Isaiah 34:14, Lilith is a kind of night-demon or animal, translated as onokentauros; in the Septuagint, as lamia; "witch" by Hieronymus of Cardia; and as screech owl in the King James Version of the Bible. In the Talmud and Midrash, Lilith appears as a night demon. The idea of Lilith as the first wife of Adam arose in the Middle Ages."

But really this doesn't say much about her being a vampire. Is it just an assumption that people are claiming based on the word, "night-demon?"

Have you by chance looked into the archives here? There are alot of threads pretaining to her and this very question.Im sure you will get feedback here,but I would suggest looking into the archives as well.

There is also something I remember about her that might have been one of the reasons she is considered a vampire.And that is that she is a Goddess in the form of an Owl.She wouls supposedly come in the night and drink the blood of children.
Another thing I might point out is that in cultures other than Hebrew she wasnt seen as a bad Goddess.It was the Hebrews who gave rise to the fact that she was evil,in attempt to draw away any worship or praise from her,towards their Ultimate God.

this is actually a very controversial subject within the vampire community..i think at least there are many forms and views of Lilith and this is what i know.

Lilith dates back to the bird-serpent goddess of antiquity. In Sumeria, she was portrayed as having both the wings and claws of a bird. Some reliefs show her lower half as being the body of a serpent or she is shown as a serpent with the head and breasts of a woman.

There are many possibilities as to her early goddess names: Belil-ili, Belili, Lillake [7], or Ninlil [12].

She was a goddess of agriculture as well as the "hand of Inanna". She was said to dwell in the trunk of the Huluppu-tree:

"Then a serpent who could not be charmed
Made its nest in the roots of the huluppu-tree.
The Anzu-bird set his young in the branches of the tree.
And the dark maid Lilith built her home in the trunk." [11]

Lilith also helped women in childbirth and nursed infants.

Recent translations of her name are varied and range from "screech owl"[13], lilah which is darkness or night in Hebrew, to Lilitu which is said to be the Babylonian word for "evil night-spirit."

Her symbols are the crossroad, owl, serpent, tree, and dark moon.

lilith however i do not belive is the first vampire she only has been labled such because in Jewish superstitions it is said that Lilith drank the blood of children while in the form of an owl.

this was claimed In a Rabbinical frenzy to drive Lilith's worshippers away from the goddess, they made up lies such as this which contradicted her earlier functions as a protectress and helper of birthing mothers and infants.

however each vampire may tell you differently..my suggestion...find one of the ancients and ask them...

if you wish more information on this i suggest you check the following link... http://www.sacredspiral.com/articles/lm/lilith.htm

And where do you suppose I find an "ancient?"

~chuckles~ that is the ultimate question is not...

I ask you, what is an ancient?

I am by no means uneducated to the topic at hand. I just want to know what all the self-proclaimed "vampires" think of the origins of lilith.

Something I found online:

"Drinking blood doesn't make you a vampire; it makes you a person with a blood fetish. As the original meaning of a "vampire" was an animated corpse, it's hard to be one and still be alive. Being a vampire has now become something that is equated with a religious experience."

As far as ancients go, there are the vampires of ancient Mayan, Aztec, and Indian civilizations, and can be referenced in the different pantheons as back then they were similar to gods.

As far as having to find an "ancient" and ask one, well, this is not the movie, "Queen of the Damned." sorry.

We vampires, who are out there we live in human bodies we are immortal through reincarnation and "Awaken" at a certain point in time..the most general time frames are at age 6 and on..or during puberty if not before when you are a child, as for finding an ancient vampire from that time period...i have to say good luck as one such as old as that may not be willing to reveal themself, Me personally...well i don't divulge my true age to just anybody *smiles softly* however in relation to your topic..as lillith being the true start of all vampires..based on the research i have done and of those i have conversed with it's highly unlikely she is...like said in that link..she got that description from a superstition that she fed on the blood of infants...however if others know more well...we are always up to learning about more knowledge.

You live in human bodies. What else would you live in?

Through reincarnation you say? Reincarnation has nothing to do with being a vampire. One does not reincarnate into a vampire.

Not divulging your age is nothing new for young people that are into the vampire and goth fashions.

I am 35. Human (as we all are). I enjoy watching scary movies with blood and guts and gore and violence. I could easily become an embalmer, mortician, coroner, surgeon, etc,. because I like the sight of blood and would not flinch if I had to rip out intestines, hearts, etc. Any of us, if put in a situation where our lives were at stake, would divulge in things we wouldn't normally do otherwise. When you do not have weapons to kill animals, you kill with your bare hands. When you do not have food to eat, you find something if you do not want to starve. When you are in a situation where your life is at stake, you do what you can to protect yourself.

It is human nature to act on impulse. It is mere immaturity to lay claim to something you truly are not.

It is okay if you do not want to divulge your true age (since saying you are hundreds of years old would get you nothing but laughs), but your true age shows in the words you write, when claims are made that are most fraudulent.

~Chuckles~ oh..I do assure you everything I say is true, weather you believe it or not..now that is up to you.

Nope, definitely not buying it. There are so many out there that claim to be this and that but they have no proof. They cannot provide evidence. They can only share their corrupted philosophies.

To my understanding In Jewish mysticism Lilith is the first wife of Adam, who is eventually cast out of Eden. she refused to comply with Adam's demand that she submit herself to him, and in the end fled from him by using the Name of god to undo what god had made. Adam then complained to God about his loneliness, and the creation of Eve followed, together with the "Fall" - and the Expulsion from Eden.
Adam, blaming this on Eve, separated from her, and for a time reunited with Lilith, before finally returning to Eve. Lilith bore Adam a number of children in this interval, who became half demons.

One of the origin beliefs of Vampirism is the children of Lilith and Adam were actually the first Vampires. And that Eden, Is actually referring to the spiritual plain, the expulsion is the transcendence of the spirit to the physical world. Therefore, when Lilith bore the children these demons were actually vampires.

There is some classical Hebrew text that is the basis for this theory.
It is a controversial ideology to say the least.

Wikipedia is not the greatest of resources but for what it's worth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_folklore_by_region

Mesopotamia segment:

I responded to the topic of Lilith in the thread What is this Symbol...but here it is again for this one...

"Lilith, according to Jewish mysticism was Adam's first wife made more in line as the angels themselves were...called the men of fire...whereas Adam and his descendents were men of the red earth. Lilith being made of fire was not "meet" for Adam and thus she went her own way and was demonized in later literature because she refused to be subservient to Adam. Adam rejected her, and God created Eve as a more obedient helpmate. She is also associated with the winged goddess of Sumeria and ancient Babylon, Inanna-Ishtar...goddes of heaven, the underworld, and earth."


There is a lot more in-depth conclusions I've come studying the "Fall of Man" and the "Angels"...but essentially, Lilith was also considered by Judeo-Christian writers as a sexual deviant, aggressive in her lusts thereof, etc. and the mother of all succubus/incubus spirits. However, in the literature that evolved on these demonic entities, it is apparent to me...perhaps it is just my interpretation, that these illustrations regarding Lilith, Inanna, the Mother Goddess, etc...are early propaganda used by conservative religious zealots to suppress the orgasmic qualities of women.

The development of church propaganda taking lead from these Judaistic legends/mysticism took the form of vampire and werewolf later on...vampires being predominantly male while the werewolf was the lustful animal represented by the female half...aka the incubus and the succubus...again..the one thing they have in common?...sexual deviance and overpowering lust..."feeding" upon the innocents of men and women (who incidentally got the blame for encouraging vampirism and were accused as being werewolves and witches back in the day) exhausting and devouring their ejaculatory life force through orgasm, leaving them to appear "wasted and dead"...

Sanguinarian aspects developed later as literature got more creative and the original "devouring" characteristics of the vampire/werewolf image took on blood-letting...yet more physicians of the day drained the blood of innocents than any accused vampire or werewolf that was burned at the stake...their fires started by "faggots" (which means "starting wood" and yes, this is where the slang terminology for gay-bashing began) accused of being familiars.

The question still begs to be asked as well, in all this propaganda handed down from one bad translation to another, what two things remain a constant theme? The suppression of women and the Mother Goddess and the suppression of sexuality as a whole, being a part of sensual spirituality...actually demonizing and casting the orgasmic quality and pleasure of sexuality as being "sinful" or "evil." Is is any wonder that Lilith would be demonized as well considering her well-described orgasmic and lustful potential in Kaabalah?

I choose not to opine on this topic as regards how those who claim to be vampires may or may not feel or interpret this topic.

What I will do, which is the same as I would were I a vampire or not, is share the facts regarding the actual origins of the term "Lilith," which has absolutely nothing to do with vampires or even their mythology.

No... instead, "Lilith" was purely a medieval rabbinic creation concocted to resolve a sticky scriptural contradiction that, at the time, had no better solution.

Okay... here follows the twisted and somewhat amusing historical reality of how we ended up with "Lilith," Adam's supposed first wife... and, as I usually try to do, I'm going to use and provide quotes from my source material to punctuate the facts about to be provided:

For over 200 years, most Bible scholars have believed that the Bible did not originate with Moses, but instead, was written over 600 years later around the time of the destruction of the Jerusalem temple in 589 BCE. The “Five Books of Moses” is thought to be composed of at least four major sections – often called the J, E, P and D documents – which were combined by a redactor around 500 BCE. (See, Who wrote the Bible by Richard Elliott Friedman, Harper & Row, 1987.)

- http://www.cs.umd.edu/~mvz/bible/callahan.pdf

Here is one example of the many found in this book – creation of man. The book of Genesis begins with “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth …” and proceeds to discuss the six days of creation, ending on day six with “So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them” (Gen 1:27). It is this passage that fundamentalists use to attempt to discredit evolution.

However, not everyone realizes there is a second creation story beginning with verse four in chapter two of Genesis: “These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens.” In this version in the Garden of Eden, “God formed man of the dust of the ground” before every beast was created and before Eve was created out of his ribs.

- ibid.

Even the early rabbis of 2000 years ago recognized this contradiction. How could God create the animals first and then create man and woman simultaneously in Genesis 1, yet create man first and then the beasts and Eve later, as stated in Genesis 2? They got out of this problem with a Midrash, a story to explain a missing or unclear statement in the Bible. According to this midrash, apparently the woman in Genesis 1 was not Eve, but another woman, Lilith. Lilith would not let Adam be dominant over her, so she left him and consorted with demons, preying on unsuspecting men at night ever since. That left Adam alone in Genesis 1, so God had to create Eve to alleviate his loneliness in Genesis 2.

- ibid.

I dont find her to be a vampire at all...
If she drinks blood, good for her, but that really doesn't say much... You can have someone drink blood right here right now and that wont make them a vampire either... but ... people will believe what they wish to believe...

and um... some of these posts where begging to sound very RPGish.... if you get what I mean. LMAO! Try not to make TOO MUCH of a fool of yourself, as most of these threads are archived and never deleted. hahaha.

there are many stories of Lilith many of them are from different role playing games. and then there are also some who say that Lilith may or may not be a fallen wife to adam as who i wish i could remember the whole story of this or if it was even from actual biblical texts of sorts. but from what i do remember it was said that Lilith was the first wife of adam who defiled the garden of eden or did not listen to gods commandments and so her punishment was to be cast out of the garden of eden and to thirst for human blood or something to that idea.

Since in many myths she was a wind and storm demon,it is hard to see the Vampire connection there,but if you check Lamia,the vampire like creature,you might see quite a few cross reffs.

All yous Player Hatas' can Ot' me but I want to show, and tell this, because I really like it, and I am a VTES playa'.

CLICK HERE!

Here a few of the other Character uses of White Wolf.




Arikel, the Rose
Childer: Toreador, Toreador antitribu

Ashur, Lord of Death

Childer: Cappadocian (not yet introduced to the game), Giovanni (can be considered his bastard children), Harbinger of Skulls (many thought to be former Clan Cappadocian)

Caine, the Dark Father

Dracian, the Wanderer

Childer: Ravnos



Ennoia, the Beast

Childer: Gangrel, Gangrel antitribu



Enoch, the Wise


Haqim, the Judge
Childer: Assamite

Ilyes, the Scholar

Childer: Brujah, Brujah antitribu, True Brujah

Irad, the Strong




Laza Omri Bara, Master of Night

Childer: Lasombra



Lilith, the Dark Mother



Malkav, the Moon

Childer: Malkavian, Malkavian antitribu



Troile, the Diabolist

Childer: Brujah, Brujah antitribu

Typhon, the Serpent



Childer: Follower of Set

Tzimisce, the Shaper

Childer: Tzimisce


Ventru, the Monarch



Childer: Ventrue, Ventrue antitribu



Zillah, the Beautiful

Lilith to me is a misunderstood woman who wanted to be equal to the man.

Now if you think about it....anyone that goes against God's will, or rather the man's will, is going to get the evil titles. Why would God create a night-demon for Adam?

Sounds kinda fishy right?

Just as "Lucifer" got a bad rep for not wanting to be God's side boy anymore, he got his bad rep for opposing said God and became the father of all evil. Yet, he was the most beautiful of all the Angels.

Still pretty fishy if you ask me.

If we were to look at all figures of the opposing team, they are often given bad boy names and reputations according to the one perceiving them to be.

It's just the way of the religious world.

If you think of Satan's "creation", according to the Christian religion, it does make sense... he was second in command right after God.... not only did he disobey god.... he took 1/3 of the angels in heaven and tried to over throw God's command and become God himself.... God then banished him and the 1/3 angels to hell. The angels then became known as demons. He left Satan his beauty, because God still loves his Angel Lucifer, even though he turned against him. Lucifer then became known as the Anti-Christ because of his actions. Its not fishy at all.... it is actually a believable story.... someone in high power wanting more... is very common...and it showed an example of Gods infinite love.

But these are all just stories.... it doesn't take much to come up with a believable story every now and again.... Lilith has many stories that are believable.... but she has so many off the wall random stories that it's OBVIOUS no one knows what she is, they just wanna make up a story.

Most of her myths where developed in the 13th century...as opposed to the "Eve" who was in the book of Genesis and actually was written in scrolls. The only mention of anything even similar to the name Lilith in the Christian Bible is in the Book of Isaiah 34:13-15..... the only reference that Lilith was ever Adam's wife before Eve, is in the Jewish religion.... But like I said this was all created well into the 13th century, and there is little to no consistency about who or even what she is.... She seems to me, to be a myth,

Well i'm sure back in those times whenever religion was becoming more organized and formed, it was becoming so much of an issue that it threatened the one's already in power. Kinda like Jesus who was gathering so much of a following, the Sanhedrin didn't like that very much and had him slain Roman style.

So in this example, the Sanhedrin would be like the God-head and Jesus being the one going against the power.

It's all a matter of perception.

If the Christian God was completely a "good" entity which most perceive it to be (but if one reads the bible completely knows he is capable of much destruction when things doesn't quite go "it's" way), then you have to question, "how did the "bad seed" get put into Lucifer?" Which actually Lucifer really meant Venus, the morning star or a being that shined so bright that they described him to be such.

So then we go back to another question...Why would this God give a night-demon/succubus to Adam? Which in turn was not happy with him and left?

That alone says that this God is not exactly the master of match-making, and maybe these things should be looked at a lot more closely. ;)

According to Kaabalah, Jewish theology, the Ein Sof aka The Creator is neither good or evil in origin, but both...and at the same time, neither...exacting that there is no classification of the Ein Sof and for a simpler expression that is most popular these days..."It is what it is."...or as God would say in the Old Testament..."tell them I AM sent you."

It was not until the influence of Zoroaster, an Iranian prophet born between the 18th and 10th century BC influenced Judaism and later Christianity in subscribing to a dividing line of "good and evil." His philosophy based that the human condition was a struggle between the truth and the lie....but upon whose truth?...and what was considered lies?

Just as with the origins of Lilith are marked by these later theologians as being a "demon," yet the problem still denoted in the earlier writings for these good vs evil conservatives is that in the basic concepts of the Ein Sof regard the faces of God/dess (as The Creator is also considered both male and female, one and both..equal parts) as neither good or evil...a great example of this is the creation of Sammael, The Poison of God...an archangel of the Presence that is neither good or evil but both and neither.

In the Zoroastian line of influenced philosophy on good and evil..evil has no place and is unable to come into the Presence of God...if that is so, then how was an angel such as Sammael or even Lucifer, being both good and evil was able to? There's a few holes in the stories there as the centuries of religious beliefs evolved and tried to explain things or change them rather...to fit their own doctrines.

Essentially...it pays to know your history and research things a bit further than take them at face value.

one thing to consider is that myth is always evolving.

evidence supports that originally jehova was a relatively minor deity before his cult took control of a section of modern israel and stated the systematic destruction of the worship of the other semetic gods and goddesses.

so the mythology of the vampire continues to evolve today. yes, some of the sources of it are shady in my opinion (games and such), but what causes the evolution of the way we see our gods?
and are not vampires a sort of god of darkness?

lilith is shown early as a demonic entity. a vampire in the modern sense of the word would have been considered as a dark god or demon as well.

while there may be no lore from 2000 years ago that would say she was a "vampire", i dont have a problem with putting her in the category of "things vampiric".

but i freely admit that for me personally the category is a very inclusive one.
~W~

Yeah i agree that it is the question asked and it is a good one because i have yet to see any writing or any evidence that indicates that she falls into the vampire catagory. There are many sort of twisting the old Gods into figures that are unmentionable yet being defined as something else completely. I don't understand where this logic comes from or how one can pin the word "vampire" apon them considering there is no written evidence to support it.

by Scott D. Hurley (10 Oct 93)

Throughout the ages humanity has seen and known the supernatural to be around and among them. It has often reacted in fear, horror, shock, wonder, and, occasionaly, jealousy to these beings. But one question has always troubled the minds of those mere mortals as the seek to come to grips with the existence of such forces--why are these entities so marked, so different from us... at once graced with power we can barely comprehend, and cursed to their fate? There have been many answers given by countless numbers of those who ask, but some find elements of the Truth...

This is the tale given by the Order of the Amaranth, a most ancient cabal of sorcerers that remembers the dim reaches of humanity's origin...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the beginning of all time, when humans first arose and were given divine life, we were but beasts, driven by the same urges and instincts as the animals, and little better. But then one Power, perhaps Prime itself, shaped from the earth certain fruits, and charged them with the power of Change. From all those humans extant in that day, it selected two, a male and a female, to shape and guide towards Awakening, such as it knew. To make the two worthy of the Change, it embued in them the awareness that would allow them to make conscious choice...and it bade them to give it the respect that was its due. It then presented to them the fruits that were the instruments of its Change and declared to them, "Know my creations that these fruits are of me, and that should you consume them, you take me into yourself...but be warned, you must chose which of them you would partake of--one will grant you the power to last through all of time, as do I. The other will grant you the ability to know why things are, but will instill in you a desire to master all, which will be denied to you by your short time in this world. Or you may chose to partake of neither, and remain here with me." Sensing the good fortune and the protection that they would have with the One, the two were reluctant to eat either of the fruits before them.

In time the female grew pregnant, and with that came the quickening of knowledge--the One would shelter her and her mate for all of time, but it would not protect their children. Something within her rebeled at this, and then her eyes came to rest upon the trees that bore the fruit that was offered to them. She considered each of them in turn, and rejected eating of them--should she partake of the fruit that would forbid her from withering and perishing, and protect her from all the forces of the Earth, she would lose what wisdom she had gained, and become but a beast again...one that would remain so for all time. The other was no better, for what gain could be had by knowledge that would be scattered to the endless wind?

She dwelled upon it for a much time, then, later that night, while she was contemplating it, she felt the other heart beating within her, and she came to a realisation. Quickly, lest she falter, she moved to the trees and plucked one fruit from each. She then ate of the fruit of knowledge and wonder, and, with it still fresh in her mouth, declared, "Even as I eat of one fruit for myself, I eat of the other for my child!" She then partook of that which would hold one safe from all earthly harm. The two merged within her, and in that instant she did Awaken and Change, and became immortal.

The One felt the transformation from afar, and was troubled by her deed. It came before her and said, "What have you done, creature? Why did you choose other than I gave you?" And she replied, "I am not a creature, I am as thou! My name is Lilith, and I am both Awakened and Immortal, as shall be my child!" This declaration touched something within the One, and part of itself that it had never considered seperate resonated to her cry. It's pattern had been disrupted, and this could not be had! Yet it could not destroy it's creation, and this began to drive it mad. In anger and fury it declared, " You would be as me, and have all of thine do as they would? *NEVER*! Though earthly force can harm you not, I cast thee out of this world, find the endless wastes beyond as your home!" With this the One cast out Lilith, and turned back to its work, even as it felt it's essence begin to frament. Suddenly, where before there had been but the One, now there was the Triat. Weaver continued to weave the pattern of the One, though now without purpose and inspiration. The Wyld new inspiration and creativity without end, but could give none of it form. And the Wyrm began to feed itself, and was perverted from what it's purpose was, seeking to undo all and begin again...

And now only Lilith's Children can set the balance right.

So for the record, this is material from VTM

I have heard people believing that the Book of Nod has some hidden truths in it...but if it's part of a "game", then how can one take such stories so seriously?

I have actually heard people claim that it is a document (artifact) from the Library of Alexandrea, that confirms the Existance of Vampires..

It does, as far as the story line goes.

Hm ok so it says she has become Awakened and Immortal.....

Why do people assume that an awakening or being immortal for the matter equates vampyr? What i have just read, still does not define her as a vampire. She is simply a being that was created by said "high power". Given rules to follow by it, and was given a choice to either abide or rebel basically.

So how is being soulfully Immortal have anything to do with vampires? I do not see the relation for there are other beings that have existed according to storyline which are demonic which were apparently already on Earth for Lilith to go to whenever she left Adam and the Garden.

So who's to say that Immortals aren't simply the one's define as Demonic? Why can't those called vampire and demonic and angelic, be the very same things?

That is a work of fiction.

I often ponder that myself Dabs. Nice posting though and thanks for sharing it :)

I have had people try to explain to me how they traced their ancestry to Ventrue, I simply asked what sources they used for their genealogy, and got scorned as a meddling fool.

could Lilith be a demon , an angel turned to evil when God banished Lucifer? just asking .. please no lectures.. just a curious cat getting her feet wet... LOL

Well... as, again, Lilith is solely the creation of a Jewish midrash (commentary written by rabbis to try and explain scriptures that don't otherwise make sense), I don't see how she could be anything other than what she is: a purely fictional character made up thousands of years later by clergy to try to explain seeming scriptural contradictions long after the events they claim to report.

Nice to have you here gettin' your "feet wet," btw. :)


- Upir'

With all things said,I would suggest reading the King's list and the epic of Gilgamesh.

The text is based on copies which were prepared from an original draft some time during the Isin Larsa period (c 1950-1700 B.C.). The original itself must be appreciably older, and it is believed today to date from the 40th century B.C The passage relating to Lilith reads as follows:

From S.N. Kramer: "Gilgamesh and the Huluppa-Tree. A Reconstructed Sumerian Text," in Assyriological Studies of the Oriental Institute of the University of Chicago. Chicago, 1938, p. 1f
"After heaven and earth had been separated and mankind had been created, after Anu, Enlil and Ereskigal had taken possession of heaven, earth and the underworld; after Enki had set sail for the underworld and the sea ebbed and flowed in honor of its lord; on this day, a huluppa tree (probably a linden tree), which had been planted on the bank of the Euphrates and nourished by its waters, was uprooted by the south wind and carried away by the Euphrates. A goddess, who was wandering along the banks seized the swaying tree and--- at the behest of Anu and Enlil--- brought it to Inanna's garden in Uruk. Inanna tended the tree carefully and lovingly; she hoped to have a throne and a bed made for herself from its wood. After ten years, the tree had matured. But in the meantime, she found to her dismay that her hopes could not be fulfilled. Because during that time, a dragon had built its nest at the foot of the tree, the Zu-bird was raising its young in the crown, and the demon Lilith had built her house in the middle. But Gilgamesh, who had heard of Inanna's plight, came to her rescue. He took his heavy shield, killed the dragon with his gigantic bronze axe, which weighed seven talents and seven minas. Then the Zu-bird flew into the mountains with its young, while Lilith, petrified with fear, tore down her house and fled into the wilderness."

How on can derive Lilith being a Vampire,or mother of all Vampires from this,I really dont know..

she was a parasite.. Living off of another person? I know.. I'm reaching..

Not a bad stretch at that Dab actually.
Also,I was thinking about Utnapishtim's wife,who is un named.But anyway,she is the one who persuaded Utnapishtim to tell Gilgamesh about the plant which restores youth...Im reaching too..

lol

I was under the assumption they were one in the same.
Since there is a version of the Lilith myth in EVERY religion known to mankind. There are over a hundered of them having different names, such as Marilith or Lilitu, but all of them connect with the common theme... A demon woman, many times with wings, who kills men and sometimes children.Basically, a succubus.
The embodiment of a wicked women?

What about Lamastu Upir? Isnt she the same as Lilith also?

Dab,I do remember reading something a while back about Cain meeting her at the Red Sea .According to the story,he was roaming and hungry etc..Evidently,she took him in and showed him the power in blood...or the tree of life.Maybe this is where the whole Vampire thing comes into play?

It would seem, Oceanne, that Lamas(h)tu is older than Lilitu. According to what I can find, Lamas(h)tu is the daughter of An, the head deity of the Sumerian Pantheon whereas Lilitu is a later wind spirit/demon of lesser importance.

I found some information about her here.


- Upir'

Thanks Upir. I cant help but think that they are one in the same..one being derived from the other.Everyone of them ,while there are some small differences, are still ,in the end represented by same attributes.A woman who terrifies, seduces and devours men.

a dragon had built its nest at the foot of the tree, the Zu-bird was raising its young in the crown, and the demon Lilith had built her house in the middle

This sounds very bird-like in nature. What if Lilith was their word for Owl?

"The Sumerian word for owl is ninna and the name Nin-ninna given to the goddess in her owl form meant 'Divine Lady Owl'. The ancient texts also give the Akkadian word kilili for Nin-ninna, and this name was one shared by Innana and Ishtar. (Perhaps kilili is the original derivation of Lilith, who, much later, in biblical times, is called 'night-owl or screech-owl'."
http://analogicalplanet.com/Pages/ContentPages/Sidebars/BurneyRelief.html