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what's everyone's take on them?
do you believe in them? what do you know about them (other than the War, Death, Famine, and Pestilence part)?

i'm actually really curious on this topic. so far the best information i've found is obscure pictures and such, though i've had my share of "visions" about them and riding among them. i'll try to get some of the pics up soon... i've gotta google them again.

I believe in them.....it was drummed into me at an early age.

And as for interesting facts....

There are three schools of thought on the rider of the first (White) horse.

1: Its the Anti-Christ, this is supported by the fact that the rider wears Στέφανος, which is greek for Victor's Crown.

2: Thats it is in all reality Jesus. I dont believe this myself....as inthe fact that jesus would never wear a crown. Victor's or Royal, doesnt matter.

3: Theres others that believe there is no identity to the rider. Thats the most common perception.

The only thing I know is what the bible says about the 4 horsemen. The 4 horsemen, if memory serves, are called upon at the end times of the world and are sent out into the earth to destroy, bring pestilence, and to conquer mankind in his pride.

Whether the second coming of Christ occurs before or after their appearance is unclear. The 4 horsemen are allegorical I believe, just as the 7 seals of heaven and the 7 bowls. I don't think that they're real at all. The book of revelations is highly image oriented. More than that, they are the last ravings of the most loved disciple who has been isolated for years prior to the occurrance of his "revelation".

Some skeptics (in a show I saw about revelations) speculate that this is John's last attempt to reach an already corrupting and poisoned church, and some of the vision was meant to intimidate and scare. This is speculated based off the short, apocalyptic letters to the struggling churches, which were the largest in christendom at that time.

Going off the post about the horsemen being allegorical visions, a dream about riding among them is VERY interesting. I've never met anyone who dreamed of them, and really never thought I'd meet someone who had ridden among them.

If you like, send me a message and tell me about the dream? It sounds interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Apocalypse

good artical

They are a biblical metaphore, War, Death, Famine, and Pestilence personified. In Revelations the Apostle John was having a divine revelation (obviously). God was showing him things that were to come, but EVERYTHING in that vision was a dramatized metaphore for something else. The four Hoursemen were the agents by which civilization the rulers of this world would be brought to there knees. On a side note, according to the bible the second coming of christ would be before this, it's the jumping off point, and it would only be known to a select group or the "true" followers of christ in modern days.

The four horsemen...like most items of prophecy in the bible....are metophorical.

They are the embodiment of all the fears and vice of humanity as seen through the eyes of one who was, to himself, thought to be pious.

In all reality, i agree that they might have been a last gasp of damnation towards an otherwise horrible populace. Its hard to say that "John" did or didnt see them in a vision. As visions are both hard to interpret and even harder to prove.

The 4 horseman relate to the 4 arc angels, Gabriel, Raphael, Oriel, and Michele (please forgive me if I miss spelled any of there names). The reason they are called the 4 horseman is because in the end of times they will bring with them the 4 disasters of this world and will destroy it.

well... after a brief one on one convo with Jenova... i'm willing to dismiss alot of the information that surrounds the four, as symbolic over-exaggeration created through misinterpertation... a common thing in reading ancient texts... especially when they've been through so many translational differences like the bible. not trying to shut down everyone's input though... because for all i know i'm misinterperting my own dreams.

the new idea that i have on the four horsemen is that they aren't celestial spiritual beings. but in fact are very powerful spiritual humans designated to defend against demon uprisings either in a certain period of time... or maybe even certain periodS. kind of like the whole this happens every 1000 yrs things... maybe the riders show themselves only once in awhile, to defend the world, not necessarily destroy it... who knows... just something else to think about.

Actually Ty, your not entirely right.

The Four Horsemen are akin to the Seven Seals.

They are not meant to destroy the world. Only to weed out the unbelievers.

Its much like a reverse "rapture". Except unlike the Rapture....you die and are done for.

I also have a problem with referencing the ArchAngels. As there are more then just the four archangels in the Bene A El'ohim.

And a few of them are more important then those mentioned.

4, like 7 is a number of power in ancient times. If 5 was a power number and 4 wasnt..it would have been the Five Horsemen. It doesnt directly correlate to the 4 "commonly known" archangels

BB:> the only problem I see with your idea of the 4 horsemen is that in original texts, as mentioned, they were part of the end times plagues that God would unleash upon a disobedient earth. The 4 horsemen were sent to kill and destroy the unfaithful and as mentioned, like the 7 bowls, they are part of the process of punishing the unfaithful and sending their souls to damnation.

However, and as a counter to what I have said, the 4 horsemen are also symbolic and allegorical and their meaning is vague at best. Commonly accepted interpretations of prophecy are, at their very best, pure conjecture based off the whole of the work being interpreted (in this case, the bible).

To work with your symbolic dreams, BusterBlade (BB), you might also consider looking for other horsemen in other mythologies. While I am personally unaware of any others, there are many symbols that are repeated throughout different world faiths. I find that when wanting to expand upon a repeating symbol based off of mythology, it's best to try and find other parallels.

Remember, my current views hold that individuals have a portion of the truth, and though they might not be 100% correct, they may be pieced into a larger picture by adding the opinions and images of other traditions.

Along with what Jenova said abou looking in other myths for horesmen, horses and horsemen are featured in a lot of myths. In many cultures horses are considered sacred animals, i.e. the Bedouin, the native Americans after first seeing them imediately decided they were sacred, and many early European cultures thought the same way.

A very good question indeed. All I know was what I was told as a child in church . They are the warning signs of the last battle, before Jesus returns.

the four horsemen are a physical manifestation of four destructive forces that will destroy the world (allegedly). for anything to exist, there must be the idea of it, which is it's spirit. if that spirit is strong enough, it is believed that it can become a sentient force, and eventually take a physical form. some people think that pestilence is just the ancient interpretation of pollution. there are those who believe they will forego horses and turn up on motorbikes or in cars.

the so called fifth white rider is generally taken to be Death (the grim reaper) himself. presumably his job will be to ensure that the other four get the desired results, and to mop up any leftovers.

they were also the inspiration for the Four Dark Judges in Judge Dredd

Not much to do on that Island of Patmos. It is recorded John ate locusts and other leaves and berrys...I think he was psychotic. The book itself barely made it into the New Testament and folks have run withit since then.
The "Hoursemen" have been with us sine the beginning, war, plague, pestilance, and other unpleasant experiences are the human condition. The "Apocalypse" contains visions of a demented enforced hermit, it is not prophesy, it is like eating mescaline when you are paranoid, Its only use is to terrify people into living continually in fear of the "end times". We have had previous end times in the last 2000 years, but we are still here. Well not all of us, the great flood, the endless wars. the bubonic plague, the ebola virus. Wait till the Avian flu jumps fom chickens to humans, then we will see some "end time".

though i cringe at the thought of agreeing with anything stabb says..j/k, i agree with what he says and i believe it as well.

From what I have seen the Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse are not referred to that much. The only bit of information that I could tell you is that which I found in Biblical References and even that isn't too defining.

Everything about the 4 horsemen is in the book of revelations. I also understand that the horsemen are War, Famine, Pestilence & Plague (one horseman), and a false prophet or god.

The teachers of the bible would have us to believe that these are things that come into existence as a warning to the end of the world. Any scholar will refute this by stating since the begining of recorded time each of these things have always been present.

Symbolism.

A way to put faces to events and happenings, it is what we do best. This list also includes "the grim reaper" or "muse" etc

The bible especially has a tendency to be very dramatic to make its point, this is taken literally by people, and the point of the story is often lost. We need to learn to find the point of the story and quit taking something such as the bible word for word. One can get far more out of it when they suppress the urge to do so.

But, opinions are not against the forum rules. They are what comprises a post. As long as there is no bashing- we can talk about it.

To off on a tangent.............


The Four Horsemen was a term first used by Grantland Rice to describe the backfield of Notre Dame's football team in 1924. The four players were quarterback Harry Stuhldreher, left halfback Jim Crowley, right halfback Don Miller and fullback Elmer Layden. All but Layden were All-Americans, and all four are members of the College Football Hall of Fame, being inducted in 1958, 1966, 1970 and 1951, respectively. Stuhldreher, Crowley, Miller and Layden led Notre Dame to a 10-0 season in 1924 and the team's first national championship.

The term first appeared in the New York Herald-Tribune on 19 October 1924. Rice's story about the previous day's win by Notre Dame over Army began:

"Outlined against a blue, gray October sky the Four Horsemen rode again. In dramatic lore they are known as famine, pestilence, destruction and death. These are only aliases. Their real names are: Stuhldreher, Miller, Crowley and Layden. They formed the crest of the South Bend cyclone before which another fighting Army team was swept over the precipice at the Polo Grounds this afternoon as 55,000 spectators peered down upon the bewildering panorama spread out upon the green plain below."

Upon returning to South Bend, the four took publicicty photographs in their uniforms, riding borrowed horses. The pictures were sent out over the wire services, and the name stuck.

Stuhldreher went on to a brief professional football career before taking a coaching position at Villanova in 1925. In 1936 he became head coach at the University of Wisconsin, and retired from football in 1947. Crowley also played briefly professionally, before coaching at Georgia (1926), Michigan State (1929) and Fordham (1933), where he coached Vince Lombardi. Miller coached at Georgia Tech and Ohio State, before entering practice as a lawyer. Layden, who also lettered in basketball at Notre Dame and was elected president of his senior class, practiced law before coaching at Columbia College in Dubuque and Duquesne. In 1933 he was hired as Atheltic Director and head football coach at Notre Dame.

it is more about the story itself than the characters involved.

Metaphors teach lessons just as effectively, no one is discounting them here. But it must be stressed that many many if not most or all things in the bible have deep symbolism and when interpreted literally make no sense whatsoever. Things can be taken so many different ways and in the end we choose which version of the story the story is even about, for example the story of Sodom and Gomorrah.....we seem to be hung up on the fact that it was about the wrath of god, and sins. When perhaps it was about the value and importance of hospitality and the defence of ones neighbor or guests. Which was oh so important back then.

We take from things what we want, not necessarily what needs to be taken. The same can be said for refusing to see things as being non literal.

I totally agree with stab, that what was told pounded in to me as a child. My parents would use it to keep me going to church back in the day.

I agree with Stabb . You worded it much better than I did . But I meant the same samething.

Another accepted christian interpretation of the 4 horsemen holds that they are already upon the earth and symbolize the wars, disease, famine and destruction that is happening now has been growing in number and severity. The belief is supposed to be supported further by scriptures of Revelation that discuss the first battle with Satan (which according to the above beliefs has already taken place in heaven). It's believed that they lost the first battle and were cast down to earth where they sow wickedness for their short time before the 'final battle' (the coming of Jesus). That wickedness and suffering which is meant to turn mankind against god is the symbolic four horsemen.

Now again this is just one more interpretation by yet another christian sect but for the purposes of a more complete discussion, I thought I'd add it to the mix.

Hello,

To some people it might be a figure of speech but to answer your question...Yes.

kronos, methos, azrak, and the fourth name escapes me as far as their real translations.