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Ok, so a lot of people like to label themselves Wiccan. And that is totally fine. Its just, I dont think most people who practice Wicca really understand the history of Wicca. For instance, see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Iv6osghY8s&feature=channel_video_title. Granted, it is long, but it is well worth the watch. It really explains what I am trying to say.

So basically what I intend this thread to be is a debate. I want people here on VR to present how they feel about Witchcraft Vs. Wicca.

My personal beliefs regarding Witchcraft Vs. Wicca:

I think a lot of people see Wicca as "modern day witchcraft". But that is not what Wicca is. Wicca is a sex and fertility based religion, whereas Witchcraft is a nature based religion. Wicca is relatively new on the scene, created by Gearld Gardner in the 1950's. Granted, Wicca is more of a "modern day witchcraft", many covens still practice the way it was intended. Witchcraft, which Wicca is heavily based upon, predates Wicca by a few centuries, if not millenia.

I don't know entirely what you base your opinions on, but I will tell you this.

Wicca, as it is taught and presently presented in the world today, has very little to do with actual witchcraft.

What we are shown today is often a hodge-podge of beliefs cobbled together to fit what the "solitary" practitioner feels comfortable with. The actual craft was never called Wicca, and had none of the fancy trappings that Gerald Gardener or Alex Sanders decorated it with.

This isn't really the best place for this discussion..as this is NOT a forum for the discussion of one's faith. That being said - it's almost like discussing the beliefs for a Freewill Baptist as apposed to Revivalist, Fundamentalist, Traditionalist, and other factions of the faith.

Wicca is a very broad based name for a lot of different tradtions and circles.

Witchcraft - is another faith entirely. It's similar, but only in places.

I'll leave it to you to discover. I've had over 50 years exposure to it. I wish you the same luck.

My opinion, and what I have observed is that "Wicca" is more of a generalized term for ancient arts associated with certain cultures, time frames, and numerous pantheons. If you pick up any book on "Wicca" Ive found there are a list of different Gods and Goddesses that can be fallowed, or used in select rituals. That is because Wicca is what ever the practitioner needs it to be. Alot of practitioners who practice now days dont have a name for what they do. Those names have been lost for some time. Im sure every form of craft, witchcraft included once had their own name.
Every "Witch" has their own veiws, ideals, moral standards, ect. Which in my opinion, is perfectly healthy.

I label myself as a Wiccan because I live in the "Bible Belt" of USA, and if I flat out said "witch" i fear the consequences. I call myself a "Kitchen Witch" which I know is a cute sounding term, but Im serious. I enjoy making people feel good with food and drink. Im very good with herbs, and natural remedies, whish is considered part of "The Craft" as people call it. No, not the movie you internet trolls. Im three quarters Irish, and back about 4 hundred years ago my family was fabled to be descended from the Fey, or the Sidhe. (look it up!)

I dont know about magic in the way its portrayed in stories, and movies, but I do know for a fact that the power to heal people is in the earth, the plants, the water. There is a cute for everythng, even cancer, we just dont know it yet. and thats how I practice "Wicca" and i have two deities that I fallow. Male and Female. The fertility figures. I could babble on and on about this, but I wont.

And no I wont be offended by dissenting opinions.

Wicca Vs. Witchcraft, let see, Do you want the differences between both? In my opinion, Wicca is a derivation of Witchcraft. The same as many others religion which are the follower of Jesus, but, do not consider themselves as Catholic. Witchcraft is more deep, in the concept of spirituality and closeness with the Goddess and Gods. ( Yes, some of you will hate me for saying this). Don't get me wrong, many Wicca people that I do know, follow almost the same creed as the follower of Witchcraft, but, keep a distance, when come to the realization and concept of the religions.

In my opinion Wicca is just a more general form of witchcraft. Both have the same techniques and goals to a very similare point. Wicca is simply another way to get around to your goals. No problem with me how you do it, as long as this provides the balance you desire.

as has been said Wicca is not an ancient religion it was formed in the 50's



Witch - Well, to me this word means a person who can worship the old Gods and Goddesses, someone who attunes themselves to the tides of the moon and earth, and lives their life in accordance with their True Will. What does True Will mean? Other than having cool capitals it correlates with the idea that each of us had a higher self and this self is more in tune with Deity and the world than we are. Why? Because our higher self doesn't have the weight of everyday problems, setbacks, joys, and happiness that we mortals swing through in a day. All that means is that our True Will is going to make decisions based on what we truly need and not on what will make us feel better right now. Or, we will make an ethically right choice, one that will be in harmony with life, the universe, and everything.

i am proud to be a witch

Witchcraft: Is the Art of Magick

Wicca: A Earth Based Religion which does not always include Witchcraft.

So yes their is a huge difference in this. You can be a Witch without being a Wiccan, and Not all Wiccan's are Witches.

~High Priestess Bellatrix Lestrangle~

i am a wiccan and have been addressed as and persecuted as a witch my whole life. while yes as you all are sayin the same thing there is a difference. i do practice some forms of magick but not as much as a witch traditionally does. i come from a long line of witches and just never went all the way with the magick but more towards the attunement of my inner self. this is an arguement that has gone on for years and im afraid that the one that started this forum just unleashed a conversation that will never end.

See, I'm neither. I'm a pagan. The magic comes from the deep connection we share with nature. Just call me a modern day hippie. :)

I have an article which I compiled in my journal on this very topic. These two are not the same. Wicca bears little resemblance in my opinion to actual witchcraft. I don't want to list all but they were more involved with the elements in nature such as earth, air, fire and water rather then nature itself. They don't use the same tools and some use none at all. In olden days they wouldn't have referred to themselves as witches. It wasn't what they called it but what the church called it and it was a derogatory term. It isn't so much in modern times but still they used mostly other names, Pellars being one of them. They don't have Priests and High Priestesses. They don't follow the Rede or the threefold law and they leave what might be thought of as bad to the discretion of the individual. They didn't keep books of spells and such. If found they would be put to death and everything was handed down orally. Coven isn't a very old term either and not sure what they may have called groupings if anything beyond a gathering perhaps. Another point is they never did anything skyclad. It sort of got incorporated into certain forms of Wicca and have read it is because Gardner was a nudist on that detail I don't know and didn't think it significant enough to research farther.

They didn't have all the observances the Wiccans do and they didn't believe in reincarnation but another idea. Some of that was added into what Gardner created. I would say he was inspired by what he knew of what he thought was witchcraft as it is termed in modern times since the repealing of the witch laws around 1951 in England. There are a lot of differences and quite frankly I think now after so many hundreds of years that people should just call themselves by whatever name they choose. No matter which you belong to one is a revival and the other is a modern religion with some if you stretch the imagination, similarities.

Did anyone by any chance actually watch the video?

Wicca (as it was created; not how it is practiced today) was a sex based religion. Nothing to do with nature. Skyclad and the Great Rite are just two supports for that statement. Sure, Gardner did bring in some witch craft, but Wicca (as a lot said) does not equal witch craft.

As far as Witchcraft and witches go, Witchcraft is a way, or philosophy, of life, rather than a religion. There is no standardize belief among the Witch community. Thats why beliefs are so varied in Witchcraft.

Wicca is the preservation of the Earth and all the Goddesses' children. I believe that fertility has something to do with it. That is why there are skyclad rituals. But thats not what its all about. We accept everyone, we don't force our way on people. 3 fold law= Whatever you put out into the world, it comes back 3 fold.

They are not the same thing. I wouldn't call Witchcraft though, only a magickal practice. Europeans don't exactly state that, those that are practitioners but it is different. Its a revival for the most part.

I didn't watch the video because it is stated that it was removed. I watched a lot of others and have them in my e-zine on this topic. In this day and age, it doesn't matter what name you call things. Everything is pretty much forgotten from ancient times and witchcraft which didn't have any particular name was what everyone believed. It was the way of life and thought of as natural. Magick was natural. They venerated gods, etc but they didn't believe they were greater than man and they don't incorporate the god/goddess concept in their practices or the stages of the goddess with the only similarity coming out of Turkey. As far as I researched, any information regarding what the church called witchcraft doesn't exist any farther back than the 1700s authorities state. So what they do and know, is based on orally being handed down if the information was available still in certain families. The Celtic calendar was only divided into summer and winter if I remember right, so they didn't have all the observances that Wiccans generally have and mostly not in any ritualistic rote way. They do not have solitary practitioners.

Others such as Mike Nichols, sees no difference in the two but there is a difference. Wicca, according to accounts, is much more popular in the United States as opposed to anywhere else. I personally don't believe one should be considered better than the other but just different points on a spectrum in modern times that vary from one sect to another. Wicca as one video states was not that popular in the 50s and it sort of reinvented itself. I have researched the word coven and it wasn't used back that far either and is doubtful that any of the people labeled witches used the term, the church most likely used the word because of source meanings of that word.

I think people shouldn't worry nowadays about the technicalities of things. I never came across Wicca being a sexually based belief system and I did find things stating the only reason for skyclad was Gardner himself. They do not do this with witchcraft. There could be some groups that did have activities of this nature because Gardner was a friend of Aleister Crowley and why calling the Watchtowers was incorporated into this ideology. Despite what some write, is not used in witchcraft. Gardner pinched it from Ceremonial magick and a few other things. Even though magick doesn't have to be used in either Wicca or Witchcraft, in my opinion from what I have researched, it is much more prevalent in Wicca than Witchcraft. Since I don't practice either, I would suspect it is another area that could be debated.

I believe though, that Wicca was inspired by Witchcraft and to fit more appropriately into the new eclectic forms of beliefs cropping up in modern society. I don't think it matters what the differences are, just follow what you believe. Time changes lots of things. Look at other beliefs, they weren't always the same in the 1700s as they are now, but some use the same overall name for it. I don't think I need to use a name, it should be evident what I am meaning. There is a lot of variance. The same goes for Wicca and Witchcraft but Wiccans really should call themselves, in my opinion, by that name to keep them separate and more accurately set them apart. It is a Craft unto itself with various beliefs and practices incorporated into it not from just one area but for some, many. The average person didn't read or write back then so a lot of things now in modern times have become common practices that weren't then because people were just trying to survive.

My family are generations of witches and I was brought up that way. Our familys traditions include worship of gods and godess', using magic and ritual to balance our lives and souls, its neither dark nor white and has no restrictions regarding karmic effects and three fold rules ect.

Wicca as I know it is a religion which has some but very few elements of witchcraft, it is full of rules and regulation, power and control like all religions and of course many will say wicca is from ld and ancient witchcraft but it is most definately not,

it was created in the 50's and is a modern day religion.

Whilst I respect anyone who follows wicca it offends me when people refer to the lame idea that wicca is a modern witchcraft

Well in my opinion it's a newer version of witchcraft that borrows from the ancient practises and sort of mingles both. no harm in that, really. Witchcraft as I stated earlier is many things to different people.

I believe they relate to each other on some levels. Depending on how you study and practice wicca will determine your point of view. wicca is a religon and does have Gods and Goddesses. Depending on how you are involved with the religon will will deside if you are one or both. Example Psi,Sang, or simply both. Personaly its reallr just depends on your involvment and views.

I mean no offence to anyone and apologize if I offended any one

Paganism is a wide umbrella with many paths under it Wiica was a great way of simplifying a witchcrafting practise

I call myswlf a Witch, and I do practice spells. I don't have a singular "type" of witchcraft. This thread has been really informative, and very interesting. I agree that there are many different "references" to magic and witchcraft. Who's to actually say what is the "proper" definition of Witchcraft, Wicca, or Pagan. I believe they are all intermingled beliefs.

By definition a Pagan is : An adherent of a polytheistic religion in antiquity, especially when viewed in contrast to an adherent of a monotheistic religion.

So basically anything with more than one deity is pagan. Including Wicca.

I started reading about Wicca when I was about ten and it was a nice little stepping stone but everything I read about it was very duo-theistic, a goddess and god. Usually Irish or Scottish in origin.


It was a nice stepping stone but didn't fit my personal beliefs. I began looking more into my Nordic, Swedish, roots and found something closer to my tastes. Many gods, goddesses, and the like.

I call myself a pagan because I am polytheistic.

A witch by definition is a person, usually female, who practises or professes to practise magic or sorcery.

I also call myself a witch. I perform spells, herbals, rituals, and ceremonies.

The terminology in most cases can be very blended while some people do use specific terms to describe their practices, and that's fine. You do your craft as desired, and whatever brings balance, harmony, and happiness is key.

I was always raised to believe that Wicca was a belief system and that Witchcraft was a craft...and that those who practiced witchcraft didn't have to be Wiccan...and that Wiccans didn't HAVE to practice the craft....that although similar, were two separate things.

Well, think of Wicca as a specific path within witchcraft. Witchcraft has a big umbrella. Actually, you can mix and match aspects of both quite comfortably

Okay well it all to do with magic and the self and balance of your soul and spirit. Doing spells and ritual is all dependent on the person or persons. Wicca is more structured and has very specific rules and rites. Witchcraft is what I practice but I also use some of the Wiccan reed do what you will but harm none. I do believe in Karma as well. With all magic there is responsibility and you have the choice to do what you will but have to be prepared to get what you put forth back at you. If you wish to use magic to change a persons will be prepared to get karma back at you, if you choose to use it for helping others you will get that back as well.

Witch means wisdom and we all need that when we play with magic and know what it can bring to you and your life.

Wicca and Witchcaft are both the same in a lot of ways but they are very differerent in other ways as well. The most similar and important is to be responsible with it and remember what you do with it might come back to you either bad or good.

I do credit Wicca with opening my eyes to witchcraft. Although I briefly knew Anton Lavey, I wasn't really sure how to approach Satanism.