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I have did some research. I base alot of my stands on modern satanism. Not 100% but alot. Modern satanism is after Laveyan. However today i runned over an article on Temple of nox that somehow got me to think. I post it here.

Dogmatic Satanism by Reverend Astaroth



The following is not meant to slander the Church of Satan or it’s affiliates but to put into question what it currently teaches and it’s ideology. Dogma as defined in the dictionary is something held as an established opinion esp. definitive authorative opinion. And this author is sure many of you are familiar with “…no stifling dogma shall encramp my pen!” But how many of you, including Lavey take that to heart and thought. Also how many times have you heard or read a article or essay by the Church of Satan, or its affiliates dictating some nonsense about the “true and only one” Satanism, is this not dogma? The definition I previously stated in simple terms says a preexisting opinion that is dictated by a church or other religious establishment, but is this not what the Church of Satan does? But I guess they think that since their under the black cloak of Satanism that automatically makes the infallible to xian traits and qualities. Lavey may have wrote and preached about no dogma, but why did he then turn right around and dictate rules and laws to be followed and state that his way was/is the only one and final way to become a “true” Satanist? Again is this not dogma? Satanism is an individualistic religion so why is the Church of Satan dictating who is and who isn’t a Satanist? Are they scared that there may very well be other Satanic Church’s that have there own opinion and thoughts on the religion and they might not be the one and only definitive Satanic church? Seems to be the cause and reason as to why they are so defensive. The Church of Satan teaches and advocates that there is only one and true ways to be a “true” Satanist otherwise any others are labeled as “sheepish devil-worshipers.” But in reality the express no individuality or there own opinion, how can they be individuals when the get all their opinions and thoughts from what the Church of Satan dictates, and they have no opinion or thoughts on Satanism that is their own. Are they not sheep in wolves clothing? And there are countless of Satanist view Lavey as this “great awakener” or this grand adept founder of “pure” Satanism, so in other words a Satanic messiah. But many choose to ignore all the faults he had and see him as infallible. When the truth is I’m sad to report this to the “Satanic lemmings” reading this, is that he had many faults, nor was he the founder of Satanism, he was just a Satanist like you or I, and his thoughts on Satanism shouldn’t be the only thoughts. Satanism predates Laveyian Satanic thought by thousands upon thousands of years. In actuality the first or original satanic “churches” is the priesthood of Set in ancient Egypt, or the priesthood of Hades in ancient Greece, so really the Laveyian satanic church is just an offshoot of traditional Satanic covens. So what right does the Church of Satan have to dictate what is and what is not Satanism? Truly the answer is none. There is also amazing similarities between Lavey and Christ. For example Christ said his way was the true and only way right? Did not Lavey say his Satanic way was the only one and true Satanic way? Also the Church of Satan affiliates and the Church of Christ affiliates also share some traits. For example the Church of Christ followers believe there was is the only right way all else are false ways and doctrines and to follow them is out of ignorance, does the Church of Satan not express the same feelings when saying all other religions are “spiritual pipe-dreams” and they are all false doctrines and to follow them is to follow them out of ignorance. So truly the Church of Satan and its affiliates are no different from the Xian’s they accuse if the maintain this thought pattern. So in closing this essay wasn’t meant to insult or offend the Church of Satan or it’s members but to point out their faults and show them that they are expressing xian traits and qualities and are not infallible, as to hopefully change their close-minded ideology. And the only true path I feel in Satanism and the LHP, is the path you set out for yourself.

Source: Temple of nox

What are your opinions over this? Do you think Laveyan base it´s stands wrong?

This topic is not meaned to offend anyone.

Isnt really sure about what you mean about dogma..But i am a Satanist and The Church i follow does follow some of Lavey but not all..I do have my points and beliefs on things and i will be following this thread, if it is still here..I want to hear all ov what Others have to say about this

The wikipedia says this about dogma.

Dogma (the plural is either dogmata or dogmas, Greek δόγμα, plural δόγματα) is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization, thought to be authoritative and not to be disputed or doubted. While in the context of religion the term is largely descriptive, outside of religion its current usage tends to carry a pejorative connotation — referring to concepts as being "established" only according to a particular point of view, and thus one of doubtful foundation. This pejorative connotation is even stronger with the term dogmatic, used to describe a person of rigid beliefs who is not open to rational argument.

I think all religions have dogma more or less. But satanism shouldent really have it considering it is builded on the free mind and every human to be their own god. In this way i dont really understand why the chourch of satan may put up rules it somehow go against what they says.

Doesnt really read CoS much..I have been there a time or two but I follow CoA..Church ov Apeiron..Or read the things my Master sends me along with my lessons..

Here is the link to CoA..Suppose o have opened to public and just celebrated their 6 yrs the 27th ov Oct..

http://churchofapeiron.org/

I think the problem in this is the statement “…no stifling dogma shall encramp my pen!”. When he was referring to that he was saying that you can not base your opinions solely on other peoples view and was referring to Dogma as the main base of religion "Christianity" Lavey tried to help people find a way that would work for some and also made guide lines with basic rules. If you read the rules they are pretty general and you can still practice and live how you would like. Satanism today is very Dogmatic when it comes to groups but that is why you choose to be in a group is to have others of like minds and thoughts. This is only my opinion but I think Dogma is looked at as a bad term because of the way the history of it has been but Dogma (have rules and order) is not a bad thing in most situations just do not let take away your free will or make you believe things with out thinking them through.

i can understand groups are more dogmatic in order to grow in same direction as a group i think. But yet the belive itself should be same or? Isent it a high risk it be a satanism based on other if you are in a church that is dogmatic? I mean Levay says himself satanism is to make yourself a god over yourself and freedom to the induviduals. But then in groups it maybe be based on someone else anyway because of it´s dogmatic way?

i dont think that you have to be a cardholding satanist to agree with Anton Lavey's writings. Well he DOES write laws so does that mean that the governent is Dogmatic?

Im having trouble explaining my thoughts, drats.

To me being a member ov CoA isnt like that at all..I am a proud member and doesnt mind sharing my information with anyone..To me one who respects all aspects ov a Church isnt bad..I am happy and thats all that matters

Okay the rules that are laid out are not rules that tell you how to live your life. t tells you how to give and take respect and not screw up the balance of nature unless you want the pay back. His rules are more about the Karma of things. I am a Satanist. I do not belong to a group because I know my opinions differ to much. I will hang with different groups for good discussions and debates to see if maybe there is another side I did not originally see.
Here are the rules



The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

by Anton Szandor LaVey ©1967



1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.

2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.

3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.

4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.

5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.

6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.

7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.

8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.

9. Do not harm little children.

10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

That is one ov the things CoA follows also...But because we are Satanist doesnt mean we are bad ppl

In no way does satanist mean bad person I am the first to help most people and to do what I can to help people. I do demand a level of respect and for people to be nice in return but good and bad is all dependent on point of view

Just because someone believes in something doesn't mean that makes them a bad person, it's their actions that constitue who they are

satanists is not bad people im in many ways satanist myself but i dont is member in a church. As i see it so do christians use satanismen as a bad guy to keep their flock on track. The world is pretty much builded up after christians ways to see things. I have readed the rules but thanx for posting them it was kinda long time ago i readed them.

and i agree..but to me and from what i see is xtians are worse than us..i do not mean to bash a religion, that isnt my point at all..and why being a member is a bad thing? i too help when ever i can, i am respectful and honest but i am a Satanist

Winter what I think he is saying is that if you follow the church Whether Satanist or Christian with blind faith and do not make decisions are your own it is a bad thing. The religion can be dogmatic but most satanist are not. If they disagree with a rule they will not follow it

Seamus. Exaclly what i try to say. I dont say it is so. I just wondered if it is a risk a satanist starts to follow somekind of a priest rules instead for to go to himself as the satanic bible says? If you see what i mean? I dont say it is wrong to be member in a church.

nods..Master teaches me good and i am lucky to have found Him..CoA's rules are almost like we do daily..Thank You Seamus for pointing that out

I agree completely I have met people who were Satanist because ot was cool and followed all the rules to a T and that makes them not a very good Satanist when they can not tell you why they do it

If you can not tell I think this is a really good discussion and glad you did it. I have thought a lot about it.

There is also the Posers out there who claim satanism, you know the true ones and the ones who just use that as an excuse..Those kind are not true to Our beliefs, which pisses me off...They are the ones who give us a bad name

well i try my best to learn myself it is not so easy all times.

And i agree with that..At the moment i am on suspension from CoA so i am continuing my studies by myself..I do have lesson plans and rituals to learn, but it isnt the same as when i am learning from Him

Can you be both an atheist and a satanist?

Master is both..So i guess yes would be the answer

Never heard of such

Well i have and i dont see why you cannot be both

I would say you cab be what ever you want but by most satanist ideas I have heard have some basis in religious belief. Atheist is have no faith. Now agnostic Satanist would work well. Me I am more of a Satanic Buddhist.

You rock, Seamus.

Interesting question Bloodmother i did little research on it and found this.

A guy named Tim wrote
Atheism vs. Modern Satanism - There are also those in life who consider themselves an Atheist. They claim no god, no Satan, no deity what so ever. Ahhhh, so you say, why is Satanism called Satanism and not "Atheism" if they both denounce Satan/god?!?! Both of them are Atheistic in Nature... But, here is where we are not the same... Satanists claim themselves to be their own god, Atheists do NOT. Satanists do NOT have a problem bearing the name Satanist, Atheists refuse to have any label what so ever. Satanists live a certain lifestyle which is outlined in The Satanic Bible, Atheists do NOT. Satanists for the most part do NOT go around looking to cause fights, and put everyone down. Satanists attempt to exercise religious tolerance, and of course, Atheists love to try and blame everyone for the world problems but themselves. Atheists love to argue/debate and create havoc!

Well said Seamus but as i have said my Master is both..Doesnt make Him a bad person, in fact He is kind and caring..If that is what He wants then it is His business..Doesnt make Him any less of a High Priest...He rocks and i am very lucky to have found Him..

As I stated I believe entirely that everyone can be whatever they want and nothing makes them "bad". I just think we might have different definitions on our beliefs on the two which is very possible because religous words have emotional attachments that are different for every one.

I understand that but to me and from Other's i have seen and met, Shane is a true Satanist..I feel this in my very soul...I was called to Him for He is my answer..Seamus You seen His site, does that seem like a Poser? One who isnt true in His beliefs? I will stand beside Him anytime, anyplace...I gave my self to CoA and i am very happy to be a part ov The Church on Apeiron and yes Shane's friend

The site is very nice and I figure he knows what he is talking about we just must have different points of view on the Satanic part of things. As I stated earlier that is what Satanism is all about. Free will and no Dogma. We could probably learn a lot from each other

I'm a Laveyian Satanist. I'll admit that Satanism is just a religion, just like the rest, having its faults, contradictions, etc...

The religion doesn't make the individual, it just sets some standards. A religion can't strip someone of their individuality, anyway.
I'm sure Anton LaVey had his faults, but he's dead now. I guess it doesn't matter =p

monetary, oh, and in response to your previous statement...No, most Satanists don't worship the devil or even believe in it, maybe except for some people who want to be evil so they say they're a Satanist....[which works pretty effectively cuz most people won't even bother to do the research]
Devil-worshipers are Luciferian amongst other titles.

very interesting

This is just abit about CoA..

The Church ov Apeiron has existed for over six years we are a legit Left Hand Path religion that embraces the dark currents of Eastern and Western doctrine. Read on and explore this site as you might find our philosophy opens the gates to your inner most being. As the serpent dances within the hades may you join its enchanting call to enlightenment and freedom where all things move within the fourth dimension.

The Goals ov CoA


The Church ov Apeiron is a offline organization based upon principles designed to create dynamic change within both the individual and within society through forms of lesser magic and greater magical workings. To understand our objective aims and to illustrate a purpose of focus the Church ov Apeiron gives these statements to further our cause in showing what we strive to achieve and work upon in the real world. We hope you the dear reader looks at these statements and the Nine statements of Apeiron to conclude if we are what you are seeking, as these goals should resonate within as logical statements that will bring progress within our Church as also within our society. We make it a imperative rule that each member must agree with these statements before they decide to apply for membership status as they represent our main tenets of objective exploration of the obscurus.
#1. The elimination of egalitarianism and the promotion of a Nietzschian based aristocracy thus providing the seeds of a Elitist state of nature to be born upon the earth.
#2. The separation of Church and state based upon the decrees laid forth by founding fathers and the Constitution of the United States that is suppose to free us from a state of religion based law.
#3. The further exploration of EUGENICS. This goes along with the first statement above and gives food for thought on the principle of quality over quantity. Far to long has society produced simplistic minds the ten watt type that is over populating the earth with repressive states of consciousness. This must be layed to rest unless we envision a utopia filled with fools.
#4. The further exploration of human dynamics and the potential for Deification when one has reached that point of establishing their will upon the world and proclaiming I rejoice in all that I am and all that I have become.
#5. To correct the misconceptions of Left Hand Path and Right Hand Path and join together the polarities of opposites that are one and all. The rubbish that has come from Western dualistic minds have closed the gap between something that was never meant to be pitted against the other just like nature and humanity. It is time to bring balance between both aspects.
#6. To support and work with the Pagan community for political progress where at least they have a agenda to bring change in that field more then we can say for some short sighted Neo Satanist out there.
#7. To expose any and all inverted Xtian based organizations that use the identity of Satanism for Illegal activities. To quote Lavey there are Satanist and there are nuts, this must be shown for what it is.
#8. To provide a state of magical unity between our Church and the members who make the Church for what it is today.
#9. To provide Initiation to our members and give them the tools they can work with to make their life enriched within their potential if any exist.
#10. To teach not one form of magic but to give a complete system of all valid concepts we believe can be adopted into one personal system of magic that can open the door to success.
#11. To work with other like minded groups that hold similar interest that can be to our best interest as a whole community.
#12. To escape the current Judaical-Xtian paradigm and look beyond into our past and future for greater resources then Satanic themes that cant move past a influential dogma that destroys all positive interest and innovations.
#13. The legalization of all drugs. Yet another point of interest that provides a tool that exemplified the Slaves from the masters, and gives us the upper hand when it comes to manipulation of the herd. When we become a slave to something that controls your thoughts and your actions that is not very Satanic ideal. When over indulgence becomes a reality we must see it as a poison apple that will surely lay us all to rest.

I don't pretend to know anything about Satanism so I guess I'm just gonna read more about that.

i dont know much but i am learning..i am truly happy knowing where my destiny leads me

I can see where this article is going. This is because I was once a satanist and followed the ways of Lavey and others. However, as I grew to know the fundamentals of this religion and all of the dogma that surrounded it, i grew weary of the Lies and decided to branch off into a field less dogmatic and with no religious context of any kind.

Please know that i do not mean to offend anyone, nor do i mean to attest that satanism is full of dogmatic principalities. But my path led me to a place that I a happy in.

Mener

Mener, i can understand how you feel..I feel the same about CoA..Call it whatever You wish but i know it is the path for me...Magister Shane is awesome and i have learned alot from Him, and one day i will become what He sees in me..

Well I have to say I have learnt a little from what has been posted here.

I never gave a thought to satanism being overly dogmatic etc....especially as that is what is usually said about some forms of christianity.

Thanks for sharing.

Winterdarkmoon.....I did read your post about CoA and i find it very intruiging.

Would i be correct in assuming that a witch who practises chaos magick would fit in very well?

I still dont understand what dogma is..But i know in my heart that CoA is the answer for me...dogma or not

This is only my opinion but, If you read the rules they are pretty general and you can still practice and live how you would like. Satanism today is very Dogmatic when it comes to groups, but that is why you choose to be in a group is to have others that believe and think the same as you.

I have read the rules..But i dont see the big deal..My Church or Group as some say is different than Lavey..I well never mind, i will shut up because ppl will say what they want no matter what

Winter, Your great stick by what you believe.

Dogma = Following rules in a religion

Very few religions have no rules and with no rules or order at all there is no point in the next generation trying to progess in the same religion because why should they have to learn everything that everyone before them did on there own. Passing down things like "You should not do this or you should do that" Is a form of dogma because it is rules. Church of Satan would be Dogmatic followers of it are not automatically Dogmatic. Most I have met are not. They know they have free will and can choose to do what they wish.

Thank You Seamus..As You can see CoA does have rules but not like CoS..Every religion has rules to follow..You know this..I stand by my Master and Family 100 percent

Seamus. Very good writed. This topic have learned me alot. Theese church example coa is them only for amerikans? Just wonder.

No it isnt..It is for the Ones who are true in their beliefs...Link is on my page

It is very interesting reading that site winter. However satanism seems to have a larger amount of forms and that make it even more complex i have a feeling of. Some forms i have seen on the net is so far.

Traditional satanism
Modern satanism
Laveyan satanism
Rebel satanism
Goth satanism (this seems be kinda same as rebel)

Im pretty sure it is more forms then that to. But for me i find modern and traditional satanism most interesting and feels that is most for me.

I am still wondering as to why this frame of mind learning tool of morality needs to be called "Satanism". I mean, Satan is a Christian diety of whom stands for evil, yes? If this is why most of the world deems satanists evil, then why is the name not changed from Satanism to let us say...Levayism? Or something which closer resembles what you are wanting to muster??? Not an arguement, but a conjecture for understanding your dogmatic ways.

I tryed to find out why satanists call themself satanists so i did some research on the net and founded this. I think it describe it fair enough.

David Shankbone interviewed Peter Gilmore, the Church of Satan's high priest. Shankbone wrote an excellent synopsis of Church beliefs and practices:

"LaVey's teachings are based on individualism, self-indulgence, and 'eye for an eye' morality, with influence from Friedrich Nietzsche and Ayn Rand; while its rituals and magic draw heavily from occultists such as Aleister Crowley. They do not worship—nor believe in—the Devil or a Christian notion of Satan. The word 'Satan' comes from the Hebrew word for "adversary" and originated from the Abrahamic faiths, being traditionally applied to an angel. Church of Satan adherents see themselves as truth-seekers, adversaries and skeptics of the religious world around them."

Sometimes satanists are just people who want the find out the truth, who believe in the opposite of what the normal is considered because it's different and provides them with individuality

It is something that i am interested in researching myself