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Can good exist without evil (or evil without the good), or is both needed to maintain a balance or has mankind just not evolved to a state of harmony yet?

As much i would like evil and chaos to overtake the world like a flood, there must be a balance and no, one cannot exist without the other.

What is light without darkness? when there is light, there are shadows. When there is darkness there is the light of stars and moon.

What is good without evil? they are opposites, they define each other. both good and evil are the absences of each other.

what is order without chaos? chaos is what causes people to try and use order, order is what causes some to cause chaos to upset order.

All is natural to keep the world spinning, too much chaos will destroy the world, too much order will stagnate the world and perhaps even destroy it as well since population and cities all over cannot be healthy.

The answer to the population is killing and the answer to cities is kaboom.

I don't believe in pure good or pure evil.
Everything in existence is capable of both and contains both. They are not always in balance but they both exist and work together. A co dependence sort of thing.

Nothing can exist in a state of total balance, even the universe itself was born out of the ultimate fight - matter vs antimatter and matter won.

Balance may exist for a time but will tend to decay, at least in any world we know of.

In order for good to be "good" there has to be something to judge it against aka evil. You don't know what's bad unless you've seen good.

Light is the obliteration of dark, dark the absence of light.

Basically, no good can't be without evil.

And while attempts to "harmonize" humanity may be noble it's a bit naive and just isn't going to happen. Partially, sure, in totalis never.

Exactly, you can't have one without the other and while balance is needed, there is a constant fluctuation that makes it so that it never settles dead in the middle.

well thats a subject thats has many different views and interpitations...but its how u view evil...to me true evil...is all the darkness thats posionin the all groups and creatures to control and destroy...not sin or morols as those r rules made by the ones on earth to enslave mankind and have a eden on earth but with freev will but the price is animism. the spirits chained in body and is a prosittue..god to me is a supreme being sumthing thats to much for us to even graasp as it can destory us...many names atum ra etc...and the mother of all aether or however u may cal it...and then it goes...the problem is too many have banished the ancient ones for it to have a big diferent as we r put here for a reason our energies hav the power to banish and giv power to a deity or god...so if the world prays or gives powee to sumthin its in control in this plane and all we have is our mind and spirit..to ascend..and fight to awaken others ..the ancients r pissed and r gonna come bak..til theres no religion that governs n control socety and etc..its gonna b a neverendin story as history proves it...god cnt ezist witout evil as its part of his other side and its a duality that will come to its roots and b whole again...houses undivided

"Concepts of infinitely large and infinitely small are both relative and symmetrical."


If we believe that the universe is symmetrical in nature,then its pretty self explainatory in that one couldnt be defined without the other.

evil cant exist in itself as its anti good.its an element of non existance basicallydestructive rather than creative

Neither can exist without each other because they define each other.

Though while sometime i'm would prefer an all evil world, it is way more fun to attack those who are good and they have it coming but yeah, one needs the other.

For good or evil to exist. There has to be both.

"it is way more fun to attack those who are good and they have it coming but yeah, one needs the other."

Seriously? "they have it coming" ?

Why is that ?

Maybe because good people just have targets on their backs to us evil folk. Evil can fight evil since not all of us can get along and often don't, never can agree on....some things but goody two shoes are most certainly our opposites and well, when you put a line through something and make one into two, then those two can and will war. Same with some countries, their differences in culture and law etc is enough for them to fight others. Well i don't know about my brother up there but it is very amusing to bring someone pure down to their knees.

You ask why? simple. Because we can, beauty of free will.

The concept of good and the concept of evil, are merely that, concepts. There are no mystical forces at work to make one or the other prevalent in everyday life. It's more of a way to maintain our morals. We want to be good people, do the right things and so on and so forth. They are simply words, nothing more.

But, as it's a man-made notion, good cannot exist without evil. It's yin and yang, fire and ice, light and dark. Opposing forces that are, more or less, connected and dependent on the other. You cannot have good without evil. You cannot have light without darkness. You cannot have one without the other. Opposites thus only exist in relation to each other.

I think Good can exist without the interference of Evil and vice versa. However, it would be difficult to draw boundaries and limitations without the other. The opposite or Why not? enables us to understand. This is the age of reason and always will be. Perhaps not to do with what constitutes reality, but more of understanding. It's just that, I guess.

Good / evil...... without one none could be defined....and even then it is a matter of opinion.

I see things in grey not back and white. I don't believe things are as simple as good and evil. After all who are we to judge what is right and what is wrong but I will say this.

Light and dark must coexsist in Balance. Like Ying and Yang. Forever circling in balance.

What is the meaning of good if there is no evil to give definition?

That would be ideal,Sammantha.But with "free will" and all,and due to actions of some,it can never be truely balanced.

I see things as positive, or negative. There will always be people who behave rationally (humane) and people who behave irrationally (inhumane).

Thats a good way to look at it Dabs.
My question is,if we did our works..whether they be chaotic or for "good" and remained within our own .."realms" for lack of better word right now,I wonder if balance between the two would,or could be maintained?

Like most things in the universe, good & evil exist along a scale. A hydrogen atom is made up of a particular number of particles all made up by bundles of energy, the more energy you put into it (in the form of particles) the more the atom chances and you end up with something like uranium.

A person is not gay or straight as in 1 or 0 but mostly, partially, somewhat, etc along a scale.

The same can be said about good and evil. There are differing degrees and a lot of it has to do with those involved.

If I were to venture a guess I'd say that they were connected in a similar way that magnetism is connected to electricity and it's pretty darn hard to have one without the other.

Of course good can exist without evil. But we would not be able to recognise it. For example how would we know hot without cold, if things are always hot than hot wouldn't be hot, it would be regular. so we wouldn't be able to rcognise hot, but it would still be there.

"Of course good can exist without evil. But we would not be able to recognize it. For example how would we know hot without cold, if things are always hot than hot wouldn't be hot, it would be regular. so we wouldn't be able to recognize hot, but it would still be there. "

You've contradicted yourself, you say they can exist without each other and then say "it would still be there."

The understanding of good/evil or the lack thereof does not preclude the existence of one or the other, only the perception of it.

In 1900 the entire known universe was the Milky Way and yet now it includes 100 billion galaxies and stretches for over 13 billion light years in any given direction. Does that mean in 1900 the rest of the universe didn't exist? No it did.

The question is can good exist alone (singularly), as the only nature of the universe without evil in any form? And the answer is emphatically, no.

The only thing that changes is our perception and understanding but not the real existence of it.

Exactly.

Evil and good are not really man-made concepts, one of the definitions of evil is purposefully doing harm to another, which is what the predatory non-human animals do to others, a cat for example will toy with it's prey. So depending on how you look at it, good and evil is everywhere and just in mankind.

Good and evil are concepts of mans invention, and a subjective one at that.

Interesting and complex question. For some, evil only exist in the eye of the law, for others, good doesn't exist, because always there is something that make the person evil. So, to answer your question using my only opinion, both, exist and there has been fighting for a long time. Do you know about the influence of evil in today society? why do you think so many crimes are happening? Per example, the Teen, who went to his High School and started killing class mate. His excused, Voices told him to do it. Now, that is intriguing because how many people are walking the earth listening to voices and what are the voices telling them. Well, is good want to win the battle, then, good need to get a little dirty and start wiping evil, not with reform, but, total elimination. This is the war of the unknown.

Man only gave name to it dabs, they did not invent it, killing, maiming and all sorts of bad has been happening before man even existed. Again i say it all depends on how you look at it and define evil.

One cannot exist without the other. This is fact and really cannot be disputed.


I think a more important question would be, which is more dominant in humans?

We don't have to teach our children to do evil i.e. lie, cheat, steal. However, we do have to teach them to be good.

We don't have prison-like institutions for people who do extraordinarily good deeds. Yet, we have jails and prisons for those who break even the most miniscule of laws.

Is it easier to do evil rather than good? Is it easier to harm rather than heal?

I am curious as to what you all think on this...

Definatly not life is all about balance

Maleficus - Good and evil are man-made concepts. You talk of cats and mice, but in reality, that is merely survival instinct. It's neither good nor evil, it's what one must do to survive. Animals don't distinguish between good behavior or bad behavior because that is life to them. It's the human animal that gives good and evil it's definition and imposes it upon themselves.

You're just proving my point, it is just life to them i.e pushing an old lady down the stairs would be completely normal in my view as would any other violent behavior and again i say it is how you look at it, you can view evil as either "i want to rob a bank and take over the world etc" or "i kill, i enjoy it, i hunt, i enjoy it, i toy with my victims, i enjoy it" the latter is natural behaviors of many creatures. Cat's toying with mice is hardly survival....that is just fun for them. Eating it is another story though.

Humans may have named evil and good but they did not create it, they may have "expanded"on it but good and evil was always here.

Good:
Empathy.
Compassion.
Protecting.

Evil:
Killing.
Conquering.
Stealing.

All the above is something non-human animals are capable of, apes have been known to murder one another or other animals that they were supposed to "protect".

It is all how you define evil, if you think it is robbing banks etc then that is man-made concept of evil, if it killing, maiming, toying etc then no, it is not man-made but natural behaviors.

Humans are animals, i should not have to tell you that unless you believe you are so superior that you are above such classification.

*sigh* Humans are all the same "oh we are not animals, we are humans" yeah, that is just the name of your species, just like tiger is the name of well, tigers.

Sorry about that (well, not really) but human's egos and their belief that they are a super race is just irritating, they get beaten and eaten by most other animals and still believe they are the top of food chain.

Back to the point.

Good and Evil is completely natural, it is mankind that made a big deal out of it and made it out to be some force or unnatural behaviors. Good and Evil is just instinct and behavior (instinct to kill or protect or behaving in a caring manner or aggressively)

so...the question is;
if a person is going to risk their life to save someone from dying, there must also be someone that loves to kill?

to me its like saying that if an apple exists, there must also be oranges.

some people want to help, some want to hurt, but if all people that want to hurt others were just thrown into an incinerate today, would that mean that all the people that want to help others would suddenly stop?

~W~

No because it is impossible to get rid of those who seek to do harm, doing so is actually an act of doing harm so it's hypocrisy and as long as there is life, then conflict will always exist.

Lordwolf, I think you're taking this a bit too literally in almost a physical reality type of thing.

It isn't, there must be *someone* who likes to kill if I like to save lives. This isn't about people but the concept of good and evil itself.

Can one exist as the only option, anywhere, without the other? And in a complete universe (planets, us, heaven, hell, whatever) both must exist.

One cannot exist without the other because as others have said, they define one another and yes, i believe that at the core they are just behaviors and instincts as everyone is different, it would be a crime of nature to view those who are evil as the unnatural scum of the world when in fact we are closer to nature than moral or controlling-type people. People like to think they are normal and the criminals are freaks.

I totally disagree, "controlling" type people are just as important to the survival and evolution of a species as any other type.

Without self control even the animals would end up killing themselves in one form or another. To suggest a bear doesn't stop eating tasty flowers or berries that may be poisonous in large amounts out of the knowledge that limitation is the key to survival is a bit silly to me.

Wolves fighting each other, the lesser knows when to stop out of self preservation and the alpha knows when it is ok and not ok to kill based on the reality that to kill the challenger isn't always right for the pack as a whole.

Self control lends itself to survival. A lack of self control, well, it only makes you the "weak" one in the scope of evolution...if you want to get honest.

I don't think he is saying controlling types are not needed, of ourse there needs to be some order and i cannot i believe i just said that, i think he meant, evil doers are more intinct driven then moral people as they go with what they feel like doing rather than doing what is right because it is right.

course*

Order is as much of nature as chaos but chaos is needed to be more as a natural balance is not 50/50 but like this 40/60 or 30/70.

Are you equating chaos to evil, bad, dark etc? Because chaos is simply a lack of order within a given system. Morality would be chaos in say Nazi Germany.

No, i am not equating chaos to evil, chaos can be good as well as evil just as order can be evil as well as good. What i am saying, is that in the natural world, chaos has more % than order as the latter is usually within animal ranks, packs etc.

Gotcha.

I would agree that over time chaos is more apart of the universe than order. In science it's called entropy and it's always increasing. Only periods of relative stability exist, a truly stable universe is a myth.

Within the behaviour of living forms true chaos is a creation, we decide to be chaotic. Otherwise any perceived chaos is really just entropy and the natural tendency for mutation (beneficial or not).

Both are part of himan training. No-one is born evil, or good. Good and evil are learned behaviours. You grow up making hopefully conscious choices.

No, mastermel, while some can pick up on evil by learning, it is not entirely a learned thing, evil is more or less instinct and behavior.

One might and could simply just feel the instinct and need to harm, kill and rape....no one taught him or her this, he or she just "felt" like it and enjoyed it so.

Same with good people, they feel the need to protect others and make laws, while good behavior can be taught, it can also be behavior that is there from birth i.e a person who had monsters for parents and knew no good can grow up to be a saint. A person who had a brilliant home life, lovely parents who was nothing but good can be a monster and torture animals for kicks and become worse as an adult.

Xzavier, yes that is right, the world and the environment is ever changing and thus "chaos" and animals like humans and wolves etc have a hierarchy, which is "order". Of course humans have long gone overboard with it and have tried and still do try, to control the world and the environment along with all the life in it. (mostly other humans) That is a serious issue as things need to change to keep the world spinning, some things need to stay wild and uncontrolled. Nature has it's own way of keeping control, it does need mankind making things worse.

Both are needed. It's kinda like love and hate. In order to hate something you have to first know how to love something or someone. You have to know good to know what evil is. But both are needed to maintain balance and harmony.

The words "good" and "evil" are simply just descriptors. you can't have one without the other. Each one defines the other. Therefore, without one of them, the other would not even exist. They are both understood concepts that reach in deep depths that a single person cannot fully describe.

What is good, it is defined by a person, everyone has a different definition. Evil is the same.

Therefore, there is only morale values and those are human concepts. If we are not the only ones out there, then we are probably wrong to see things in good and evil terms.

I think they are great concepts, but not definitive things. This means they can exist without the other.

Well i doubt anyone knows how to balance it since they all about control, control and oh..control! government's fault that is. it is what happens when the weak pathetic mankind grabs power, they just want to dominate everything, now you see in the old days when there was just tribes, things were different and balanced because it was small and they warred with other tribes and killed each other off. Now these days we have big countries and power hungry politicians taking away freedom.
Fact of the matter is, that no matter how much you try and "erase or delete" evil, it will keep coming and it is very persistent, i know i never get tired of doing things. As long as there is life then the potentially for morality and immorality is forever there.

Maleficus as an empiricist I believe that good and evil are learned behaviours, although different cultures have their own spin on it.

To be fair, you're partly wrong. While people can learn bad things as well good things, there are people out there who are good or evil from the start, venables was just 10 years old and he killed a baby, there was no excuse for it and as far as i recall, no bad parenting or influence was involved and it was not an accident, he and his friend took the toddler and killed it in another place.

if good and evil was a taught behavior only, then there would be no such thing as good people because how would the very first group of people ever know how to be good if they had nothing to teach them about it? Simple because people can be born to either be moral, empathetic and compassionate or immoral, apathetic and ruthless.

Here is my stand point on this subject: who is to decide what is right and what is wrong? What is good and what is evil?

Human may think it is black and white but in truth there I'd a lot of grey.

Did Lusifers' parting from heaven make him evil because he wanted free will? The point is who are we to judge others when ourselves are not ominisent. After all it's always the victor who rewrites history to make another look bad.

Questions?

Uhhh...If I remember the story correctly and I'm pretty sure I do...Lucifer didn't want free will; he wanted to take over and was cast out.

His sin was vanity and yes vanity can be evil when one believes they are greater than everyone else. Especially when one believes that they are greater than the one who created them.

I concur with ~Sammantha's~ post, she seems to have hit the proverbial nail on the head with her speculation.

In the end, it is all a simple frame of mind. Order vs Chaos, good vs evil is all in the eye of the beerholder (beholder). One man's fun is another's hell, after all.

Indeed, all cultures have their own morality and law.
so what is good to one is evil to another. Same with individual people too obviously.

The problem I have ,is that so many times,peeps claim to love evil,and declare its "fun" or "good"to do evil to others.
That is,until that same evil is done to them.Then its not so "fun" or "good"anymore.

I won't be so sure, fighting others like you can be fun and a good challenge and game. Some even go into competition with each other to see who can outdo the other. in a world full of all sorts, evil can comes across evil all the time, and sometimes evil is created due to the actions of another evil.

Hmmm,I cannot equate going into the ring against someone as evil.
And seriously,what I do find amusing is when those who make the claims I spoke of, cry like babies when the same (evil)actions are taken upon them or theirs.

I do however agree that some "evil" actions can generate evil actions,just as "good" actions can do.

The above statement was posted not to open this to debate persey,but is actually based on my own obsevations.Also,I have noticed before that when many come face to face with TRUE evil,they no longer find it attractive,and upon doing so,go the other way with things in their lives..for the good.So either one can promote both.

Not sure if this has been posted, but the concept is simple and it dates back to old asian philosophy of Yin and Yan...

From wikipedia:
In Asian philosophy and Chinese philosophy, the concept of yin yang, literally meaning "dark and light", is used to describe how polar opposites or seemingly contrary forces are interconnected and interdependent in the natural world, and how they give rise to each other in turn. Opposites thus only exist in relation to each other.

Yin yang are not opposing forces (dualities), but complementary opposites, unseen (hidden, feminine) and seen (manifest, masculine), that interact within a greater whole, as part of a dynamic system. Everything has both yin and yang aspects as light cannot exist without darkness and vice-versa, but either of these aspects may manifest more strongly in particular objects, and may ebb or flow over time.

Yin is characterized as slow, soft, yielding, diffuse, cold, wet, and passive; and is associated with water, earth, the moon, femininity and nighttime.

Yang, by contrast, is fast, hard, solid, focused, hot, dry, and aggressive; and is associated with fire, sky, the sun, masculinity and daytime

This is how I associate good and evil...neither can co-exsist without the other as stated in previous posts there has to be a balance.

The gods did not create evil, but they do allow evil. If the gods had not allowed for the possibility of evil, mankind would be serving them out of obligation, not choice. They did not want “robots” that simply did what they wanted them to do because of their “programming.” they allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve them.

Would we know what good is without knowing what evil is? If we did not know what actions were evil, would we know what actions are good? Can good even exist without evil? Could evil exist without good? Wouldn't taking one away be taking both away?

Well one can know by "feelings"
Do you feel good helping others or by destroying them? do you laugh when you see someone die? or cry and feel sorrow? These can help determine your place in the world, sadly mankind does not believe in freedom or allowing one to live their own life, to them; everyone must be forced to obey the law.

Good as a concept can not exist without the concept evil.

Good does not need evil. Good does not require evil. Good is independent of evil. Good can exist without evil. Good does good because doing good is of good. Evil performs evil because it continues evil. If someone believes that good is satisfied by evil, then that individual does not know what differentiates good and evil.

They define each other, you can't know what good means with knowing what evil means. the word "moral" comes with "immoral" They are opposites.

No good cannot exist without evil. Otherwise it would be a neutral, plain, and boring existence. The lesser side of good is evil in a matter of perception.

In reference to -VxZOMBIExV- there are so many different stories about the morning star lucifer. It all just depends on the one you believe. Like I said the victor rewrites history.

If there was a victor then there had to be some sort of victory. So, there had to be some form of struggle/competition.

Thus proving that Lucifer already had free will.

A robot designed without free will cannot struggle/compete against it's creator/master of its own accord.

*Example: Your computer doesn't have free will. It's not going to turn itself on in the morning and just up and decide to leave your house.


If it is your argument that Lucifer wanted his own kingdom, that is a totally separate argument.

Lesser? Evil is not lesser than good, that is just how moral and good people like to view it.

Good and Evil is determined by what is acceptable by the masses

I would have to say I dissagree with that statement Angelick,and I will explain why...

Example..if there are two tribes and one commits genocide on the other,killing every man,women and child ,would that be considered good simply because the the tribe who commited the genocide" en mass" might consider it so?
Or would it be considered "evil" because the tribe's actions were detrimental to the other tribe's existance?

I feel it would be the latter.Anytime we commit an action which detrimental to another's well being, or say hurtful things to someone,causing them sadness or trauma,then regardless of how many consider it ok,its really not.

I would have to say I dissagree with that statement Angelick,and I will explain why...

Example..if there are two tribes and one commits genocide on the other,killing every man,women and child ,would that be considered good simply because the the tribe who commited the genocide" en mass" might consider it so?
Or would it be considered "evil" because the tribe's actions were detrimental to the other tribe's existance?

I feel it would be the latter.Anytime we commit an action which is detrimental to another's well being in some way, or anytime we say hurtful things to someone,causing them sadness or trauma,then regardless of how many consider it ok,its really not.

I would have to say I dissagree with that statement Angelick,and I will explain why...

Example..if there are two tribes and one commits genocide on the other,killing every man,women and child ,would that be considered good simply because the the tribe who commited the genocide" en mass" might consider it so?
Or would it be considered "evil" because the tribe's actions were detrimental to the other tribe's existance?

I feel it would be the latter.Anytime we commit an action which is detrimental to another's well being in some way, or anytime we say hurtful things to someone,causing them sadness or trauma,then regardless of how many consider it ok,its really not.

Well Oceanne i say this because again that viewpoint or perception is based on what YOU view to be acceptable of what is good and evil. To some Vlad Dracula was a crazy sick man who took enjoyment in killing his victims but his country's viewpoint, he was a great leader and victor correct? There is chaos and there is peace and they both work well together as a whole. We are continuously taught what we view to be "bad" and "good" by law, by our taught moralities through tradition, religion etc, and really it's a 2 sided coin. One may believe they are doing a good thing by doing away with one tribe, call it barbaric if you want but life has always been about survival, we are surrounded by everyday things such as religion and it's killings but yet the masses seem to accept that as a "good thing" by an act of "God". So really , I am not too far from the truth and still stick by what i said previously. :)

"everyday things such as religion and it's killings but yet the masses seem to accept that as a "good thing" by an act of "God"."

Your statement drives home my point.Again,simply because the masses say it is good,doesnt mean it is.

I have to agree with you Oceanne on that point. Not all religious people think that one person killing another person in the name of God is a good thing.

Now if we're talking Old Testament and let's say that (for the sake of argument) that set of books does happen to be true and accurate...

If God ordered a nation of people to utterly destroy another nation of people and they did so by His direct order; I personally have no problem with that.

Why?

Because, if those books happen to be true and accurate then God is the creator of ALL things (human beings included). He would go by His assessment as to what is good and evil and who are we (the creation) to question that?

Thus, our opinion of what is good and evil really doesn't matter.

*Again, this is just for the sake of argument.

"Because, if those books happen to be true and accurate then God is the creator of ALL things (human beings included). He would go by His assessment as to what is good and evil and who are we (the creation) to question that?"

Exactly Zombie.So in that respect as well,the majority rule really doesnt determine whats good and what isnt just because a majority might follow that guidline.


I do understand AK's point as far as the laws etc..but that has more to do with order as opposed to good and evil.

Exactly, it would be like saying Hitler was correct in his actions because he had the support of the majority in Germany.

That would be (to me) an absurd statement.

However, many nations on Earth believe the United States is the world's largest terrorist organization. From their point of view I would suppose this is accurate. But is it?


There would have to be an absolute moral authority in order to decide what is TRULY good and what is TRULY evil.

I agree.And whats ironic about it is how one can propagate the other at any given time.By this I mean..lets say someone is ready to go on a murder spree for one reason or another ,and is really laying into everyone around them.Up walks some dude and smiles,saying something that somehow hits home and changes the persons thoughts from killing his co worker, to instead,doing something nice for his wife or something..and visa/versa.Someone can be in a great mood then comes across some schmuck who has a bad or wicked attitude.The schmuck opens their mouth or kills the guy standing next to them and VIOLA! Everything goes to crapp in a handbasket.

So what you're saying is, if a "God" says it's OK to do a massive killing then it must be right because it's our maker/s will to do so? That sounds pretty contradictory. Also if you are the type to not question what anything does, be it higher power or no, that to me is simply accepting that perception of it being OK, when it's not according to those that say "it's not". So really again, my point is still being made here that it is defined by what is acceptable by the masses.

Then again i can see why my opinion was chosen to be played as devil's advocate here but it's still an opinion and one isn't more right over the other so keep that in mind.

Um,AK,youre the only one who seems to be having a problem with whats being said here ,so Im going to clear things up for you.

"Good and Evil is determined by what is acceptable by the masses"

That was your own statment.And I disagreed because the mass of millions or one single person doesnt not "determine" what good or evil is in their essence.As I explained quite clearly above.



AS far as perspective,thats for the individual to decide.Not "en mass" but alone.

Now,if lets say we ALL believe in God,then again,the masses would not determine what os good or bad,but only God would.

Well, even if we all don't believe in God. If there is a God, that beings opinion would still be the only opinion that truly matters.


"Not believing in the Devil won't save you from him."

This is how I would sum up good and evil....


You could be the nicest, kindest person who ever lived; done the most good for your fellow man....yet, all that "good" could be erased in a matter of one act; say molesting a child for instance.

However, you could be a child molester and then save the lives of 20 people...that still doesn't change the fact that you are a child molester.


Yes evil is merely a concept. But be careful when defending evil as a whole; child molestation is evil.

There again Zombie,the irony.And youre right.They are tightly woven,yet of their own essence.This is a great thread subject.
Classic Yin/Yang.

Yes, I do believe good could exist without evil as an act. The concept of evil can never be done away with, but evil doesn't have to exist as an act.

Killing someone is the most evil that can be done to a person. You take away all that they have and all they would've had. Then, the evil that can be done to that person is over. But, you could never do enough good for a person.

good point



yin/yang


simple explanation

would man exist without woman no
would dark exist without light
simple terms but easy to understand

no opposite can exist without its counterpart

Thinking about this has brought something to mind.Mortilitas,I have a question.
"Well i don't know about my brother up there but it is very amusing to bring someone pure down to their knees.

I have to say,while not amusing,it does feel pretty good to bring some dude who just tried to rob or kill you to their knees too, while they cry for their mother.This I can tell you from experience..so,my question to you is,because of that fact,would it make the "good" victim evil also?

"So what you're saying is, if a "God" says it's OK to do a massive killing then it must be right because it's our maker/s will to do so?"

Not sure where youre getting that impression AK.Ive never said,nor have I even indicated anything of the kind.So my answer is no.

Is there somewhere in scripture or something where GOD has told people to kill en masse?Or is that just another one of those embellishments that man threw in there ..

@Nell..seems like mankind hasnt reached harmony quite yet..and may never.

I stand corrected AK on that,previous post and see your post concerning the "order to kill"wasnt directed to me at all.

Ouch Zombie,thats a tough call.Im not so sure I would go for that if God told everyone to take down a nation or race.Especially if he supposedly states thalt shalt not kill...

Good? Evil..Evil ?good.
Samantha brought up a good point earlier.Concerning history, in that the victor writes it.
Theres truth to that, and sometimes when we start thinking about good/evil in the aspect of God or the devil,and it can get pretty interesting.
But,thats another thread for another time.

I believe AK was referring to my post.

And the answer is yes; IF there is a creator to all things (including humans) and that creator told one nation to totally annihilate another nation and that nation did so, I AM ok with that.

Reason being, if everything was created by that God (including humans), then everything (including humans) belongs to that God and are that God's to do with as He/She sees fit.

Example: If you were a potter and you created 2 pots and you used one pot to destroy the other pot; what or rather who are the pots to tell you you were wrong to do so?

I think so too Zombie.

AK,I apologise for the miss post,I had not seen Zombie's post before writing that..Thus my confusion.

I do understand your point Zombie,and its valid for sure...but damn,that really would be contradictory if we consider things as they stand right now concerning killing another human.
I guess its another example of good/evil coexisting?

people have been using religion for centuries as an excuse for war and killing

regarding history being written by the victors that is a extremely valid point it is only in the last hundred years or so that the world as a whole has had the abilitly to convey the truth worldwide through advances in technology etc

an interesting point i was told years ago was that in germany the 2nd world war was not part of their history lessons i dont know how true this is

without good we wouldnt understand the concept of evil

No, because there needs to be a balance in the universe. If only one existed, there would be chaos no matter what. Take into account the one episode of Charmed, where evil was taken out of the equation and even though the world was all good, evil was still happening. chaos was everywhere.

I read once in a chaos magick book by Grey I think that good and evil are relative. Meaning to a mouse the cat is the devil. That being said are we truly the moral authority to set the standards? We are children of our mother nature who is both cruel and destructive as well as nurturing and creative.
Can good exist without evil? Since you want to use the dichotamized Phalllic archetype to separate the two into opposites that oppose each other eternally, then no.
I personally like to take in the panoramic view. Seeing the daylight in its splendor knowing the light blinds us to the beauty of the night starry sky. Intersesting is how Lucifer the bright morning star heralds the coming day.

How would you know what the difference is if they both didn't exist? If evil did not exist, how would there be room for improvement on anything, or corrective action? Just like with any other opposites, and just as everyone else has said, there must be a balance.

So, what's being said here is...No one would know what a good thing is if there wasn't evil, right?

Thus, we need things like rape, murder, theft, cheating and lying in order to balance out the good things?


That's a pretty messed up way to look at this.

How can good define itself as 'good' if there is nothing to contrast it against?

- if, of course, we believe that 'good' and 'evil' are equal and opposite forces in a constant struggle for balance, then, 'evil' is the privation of 'good'.

So I agree that one cannot exist without the other.

I understand where you're coming from, VxZOMBIExV. However, would those things exist if they weren't meant to? How would the world work if they didn't exist? There would be no justice system. There would be pretty much no need for government. The world works the way it does for a reason.

To live in a world where there is no need for a government or a justice system.

And you believe that would be undesirable???

Oceanne's post

"Thinking about this has brought something to mind.Mortilitas,I have a question.
"Well i don't know about my brother up there but it is very amusing to bring someone pure down to their knees.

I have to say,while not amusing,it does feel pretty good to bring some dude who just tried to rob or kill you to their knees too, while they cry for their mother.This I can tell you from experience..so,my question to you is,because of that fact,would it make the "good" victim evil also?"

Answer.
If the victim became evil, that will be a victory. To twist the good and pure into something they won't recognize in the mirror is absolute brilliance.
I guess the "good" victim will be evil if they were twisted enough, however, revenge is a natural response that nearly every talking monkey in the world does, it does make the person evil...unless they were already evil or got twisted into it.

@zombie, killing is not the worst thing done to a human, i find that rape is very effective, death no matter how slow or painful it was, will result in the same thing, death.

Torture, rape and psychological mind games however, can do wonders to a human's future and present life, why simply kill someone when you could make them what you want them to be? make them insane, make them kill themselves, make them kill others, make them choose between two people's lives or make them....become like you.

Death is not the ultimate evil, no where near actually.

and some of the above have good points, certain cultures do view good and evil differently. What is evil to one area, is good to another.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.