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Someone convinced me to make a forum thread about one of my journal entries. Here goes.

I would like some seriously thought out responses to the following contemplation.

I, myself, have been thinking about this for a while. I am no closer to a decided viewpoint.

I would cherish thought out responses and explanations for same.

***

At what point is knowledge no longer power? At which point does it begin to hinder?

Does the metaphor of the fruit from the tree of knowledge refer to self-conscious and self-filtered knowledge as opposed to knowledge for its own sake?

Is it a specific kind of knowledge? Is it a surfeit of knowing? Is it an incomplete or skewed knowing?

If one assumes that the knowledge is pure, is absolutely correct, then are certain kinds of knowledge (going into judgement call area) detrimental to mental, spiritual or ethical development?

Or, is it the application of said knowledge which taints?

***

Thank you.

i think Knowledge can be a hinderace when you believe that you've reached a point that you think you have nothing else to learn and that there are no other possibilities other than the ones you have already learned off.

i ment learned of

Arkadis is very right, knowledge is no power, very true, and a person can be seen as a weirdo cause he/she has some knowledge that other people ignores.

That's an angle of which I had not thought.

=)

I agree - once a person believes he or she knows everything, they cease to learn anything. I wonder ... does that somehow lessen the value of the knowledge they do hold?

It does because of arrogance,and no matter how old we become, no matter how books we read,share opinions, analize, exirience etc...we never know everything, there is always something new to learn!

its true that there is allways something new to learn i don't think anyone can ever truely gain to much knowledge but unfortunatly some people do get to the point where they "know everything"

personaly im always up to learning something new no matter how small of a fact it may be

Here sre some of my thoughts..

Knowledge is always power, it only hinders when it cannot be applied and expounded upon therefore expanding it and it's base purpose.

I would say knowledge learned remains intact and is indeed self conscious and self filtered simutaneously.

I believe knowledge falls into all three catagories, specific to the purpose and intent. Incomplete and skewed depending on the application of it.

Knowledge also can enhance and hinder all areas of our human psyche but without it we are blank and unfulfilled.

Application of knowledge can taint but can also enrich.

All across the board, knowledge learned, applied and expanded covers several layers of our conscious.

You've asked a very multifaceted question. The answer will depend upon which side you look at.

Generally speaking, there is no circumstance under which knowledge will hinder. There is some truth in the phrase knowing enough to be dangerous, but this implies limited knowledge and a resulting ignorance (the remedy of course being more knowledge).

If you ask the wise, they will tell you that the more you learn the less you know. This is not meant to be taken as any type of geriatrical condition, but rather that as you educate yourself more fully, you are more fully aware of areas within yourself that are uneducated.

Before I were to go any further, I would have to understand what you mean by hindrance.

often with enhanced knowledge eventually comes greater wisdom...now you know how tpo do a thing.....but you also know why not to do it.....this can become the hinderance.....as the more power you have....the less a wise man will want to use that power.....thus accomplishing less....
risking less
simply doing less...
out of the understanding of what could possibly go wrong

Personally, I think that at times all knowledge is a hinderence. If you have a perception of what is going to happen with everything, nothing in life becomes new or fresh. It becomes dull and boring.
Which is a conundrum because we are placed here to learn. With that learning does come great power, but not for everyone.
Think about it, how many truly intelligent people do you know that do not have some form of mental disorder? How many are not considered to excentric, or strange, odd wierd?
Knoweldge is the preverbial double edged sword. Without it we perish and with a majority of it, we become outcasts.
I also personally believe that once we do truly know everything, we die, because this realm is not meant for someone to know everything there is to know.

LadyEslaina, you are confusing intelligence and education. Knowledge, as Requiem has put it forth, is in regard to education.

Yes, some things can loose their luster when overly indulged in.

We live in a mechanical, mathematical, 3 dimensional world. One must be careful not to restrain one's learning to these more obvious things. That would be like the guppy only observing the dolphins and whales and missing the eagle.

Knowledge is always power. thats a main rule thy lives by. there is never a situation where it is not. thee only think thats a hindrance is lack of knowledge

An applicable corrollary can be seen in tech support. Users who know just enough to operatore their computer, but who can't understand why they get all these viruses when they keep clicking on popups and trying to run the "snow white screensaver" that they just got in email.

Oh yes, a little knowledge can be dangerous. Tech support staff find chasing after these users to keep their machines running to be a hindrance to getting OTHER work done.

:)

well I still stick to the idea that the more knowledge you have the less you do with it do to an understanding of possible consequence that would not plague a less intelligent man..

Hi Requiem....ok..I will give this a go...

please be gentle with me if I go off on a tangent...thanks...

At what point is knowledge no longer power? At which point does it begin to hinder?

IMO...when the understanding of said knowledge becomes self effacing in order to shield the mind from the harsh realities which have become apparent through learning....i.e. self deception in order to prevent insanity...the mind will strategically 'forget' terrible things in order to protect itself.

Does the metaphor of the fruit from the tree of knowledge refer to self-conscious and self-filtered knowledge as opposed to knowledge for its own sake?

I believe so, yes...the fruit is the representation of the awareness of the universe and the ability to ask ourselves 'why?'...I dont see that animals question their existance, they simply live it...

Is it a specific kind of knowledge? Is it a surfeit of knowing? Is it an incomplete or skewed knowing?

I do not believe that knowledge can ever be complete but also, that it will always be understood differently by each and every mind that learns it anew...I am not sure what you mean by specific?

If one assumes that the knowledge is pure, is absolutely correct, then are certain kinds of knowledge (going into judgement call area) detrimental to mental, spiritual or ethical development?

I cannot see that it is truly detrimental, except that in learning one path, you must automatically exclude another by consequence...until you come upon that path...i.e...you could not learn two diametrically opposing philosophies and the associated paradigms simultaneously, so one must suffer a lack of knowledge in one area until one learns it seperately in time...er...I think...

Or, is it the application of said knowledge which taints?

I do not believe that the knowledge itself can be tainted, only the mind which conceives it may taint it's application into reality...


I hope to discuss further...thanks.

Knowledge is both, depending on the lesson learned, and how it was taught, and how you respond to it.

Everything you know can be seen in a new way with influence of your own experience from another's point of view.

Knowledge gives you the experience of consequences. Something taught by someone else may be considered more opinion than knowledge, and there's no power in thinking you know.

I believe there are two forms of knowledge and is most powerful if you experience it first-hand. Your response to this will then be educated enough to respond to it accordingly on whether it's the POWER of knowledge, or if you were better off not knowing at all.

[And all that you know can be proven wrong, or seen in a whole new light with a new perspective.]

"There is no knowledge that is not power."

One of my favorite quotes. All knowledge is in and of itself beneficial. There is never such a thing as too much knowledge. Life is a constant learning experience. Nobody will ever know everything and those who think they do are deluding themselves.

The application of knowledge is where we have our problems. Too many times do people act without thinking. It's the old "can I?" vs. "should I?" situation and that can set things back, making the knowledge seem to be a hinderance.

Knowledge for its own sake is the hindrance for it does nothing. Whenever knowledge is gained, but is not used, that knowledge is no longer power, but a potential that may never be.

For instance, I read a great deal--accumulating knowledge from all the books that I read. But, because I don't pay attention to the world around me, I fail to act whenever my world comes falling down all around me. If I had been paying attention, observing, and using my newfound knowledge to circumvent any calamity, I wouldn't be in the situation I am now. By ignoring myself and my environment, the knowledge that I hungered for so greatly ended up being nothing more than my death sentence.

THank you all so very much for participating in this thread. =D

Cancer:

By hindrance, I mean when the knowledge one gains no longer serves the learner, but retards the learner's capacity or drive for learning.

I think I said that right. =/ I may not have.

i feel knowledge has never been power, because from the moment you start "learning" you are also forgeting. forgeting how to make your own action to make your own decisions. the learning process just teaches people to be the same. to follow order and do wht they say is the best path to follow and lose your control. from the moment we are tought how to speak and read we are being controlled, pushed to learn things we never wanted to know, pushing our very humanity away throwing it to the wind. we have come this far in life and still we have learned nothing. thaths what i think.

Sometimes old knowledge can hinder the acquisition of new knowledge is the old is ingrained enough into the mind of the individual. We have all experienced this at one point in time. Computer programs are an excellent example for we learned how to operate one, but then becomes obsolete and replaced with another program and we have to relearn all the operations again. The initial foray into this learning can often be hindered by the information we already have stored. In psychology, this is called proactive interference.

Knowledge is prostituted all the time.

Take for instance the theory of evolution, look at this article and tell me who we should trust. Knowledge always under hurry and pressure by business, has those temptations to hardheartedness which always overcome frail human nature when the
prospect of sudden and rapid gain is weighed in the balance, with no heavier
counterpoise than the interests of the helpless and unprotected.

Long live creationism.

NINETY-NINE THINGS YOU NEED TO KNOW.

Number One: There are more than ninety-nine things you need to know.

Number Two: Nobody knows how many things there are to know.

Number Three: It’s more than three.

Number Four: There is no way of knowing how many things you need to know.

Number Five: Some of the things you need to know are things you already know.

Number Six: Some of the things you need to know are things you only THINK you know.

Number Seven: Some of the things you need to know are things you used to know and then forgot.

Number Eight: Some of the things you need to know are things you THOUGHT you forgot… but actually still know.

Number Nine: Some of the things you need to know are things you know but don’t really know you know.

Number Ten: Some of the things you need to know are things you don’t yet know you need to know.

Number Eleven: Some of the things you need to know are things you probably don’t really need to know.

Number Twelve: Some of the things you need to know are things known only by people you don’t know.

Number Thirteen: Some of the things you need to know are things nobody knows.

Number Fourteen: Some of the things you need to know are unknowable.

Number Fifteen: Some of the things you need to know are things that can only be imagined.

Number Sixteen: At any time the list of things you need to know can be abruptly suspended.


Now You Know.
*******************

A little George Carlin for your day, kids.
:-D

Following up George Carlin. Tough act, indeed. In fact, I seem to be following up a lot of great discussion.

Knowledge as a hinderance in respect to preventing you from learning more... Well, that isn't the fault of the knowledge, but the person who receives the knowledge. Human beings are incredibly logical and rational creatures; this being our major fault. For we are quite adept as a species to believe the information we received is accurate, concise, and irrefutable Truth. We logically understand mutual exclusive relationships, even when said knowledge may indeed be complimentary to other knowledge. We then rationalize any action our logic dictates to be necessary for processing the knowledge.

You can't blame the human mind for this, as it is our senses that give us our perceptions of the knowledge we find. The mind is a great "delusion generator", as Scott Adams put it. It does the best it can to process the knowledge it receives. If the information is pure, and it's reception is clear, then that knowledge has less of a chance of being a hinderance. One thing remains left to prevent this tragedy: keeping an open mind. Then it cannot be a hinderance to know a fact, because it isn't the knowledge that makes it so. It's us and our willingness to remain critical of information.

That brings me to using the knowledge. Even if we remain critical of knowledge, we still have to use judgement in processing the knowledge. This is what leads to heavy hearts and scattered minds. "Ignorance is bliss" is the cliché aspect of this. In this respect, knowledge can be a burden. You have a choice in handling any and all knowledge. Choices are hard to make. If you fail to remain critical of the knowledge, then you lose confidence that you have all the info to make a choice, or the wrong info altogether.

The universe is infinite (so we think, to the best of our knowledge), but knowledge is still finite, as is our capacity to learn. You can't know everything about everything.

Even if, as I believe (but do not know), we reincarnate in order to learn more, we still would need many, many lives, and would need to SHARE our knowledge together in order to know what is knowable.

higher up it was said that you cannot leard diametrically opposite philosophy's at the same time......
of course you can.....learning a philosophy and agreeing and using it are two totally separate things.....

"when you think you really know something-is when you dont really know it at all"....i try to keep an open mind at all times in every situation,when you beleive you know all there is to know about something than your mind closes on that subject...go into every situation fresh nd you will keep learning,i beleive that knowledge is power,not a hindrance,as long as you use it and accept it correctly

Excellent topic!

Looking at it from a Taoist perspective, which I try to do, all knowledge is both hindrance and power.

It is a hindrance in the sense that thinking we "know" stops us from experiencing the magic that is life. Once we know how something works, how its made, what its strengths and weaknesses are, we tend to file it away in our minds and take it for granted from that moment on. The appreciation and fascination for life leaves with knowledge.

On the other hand, if we choose to use oour knowledge in a positive manner, we can help others appreciate our world.

*sigh*

So much to think about...

In regards to opposing philosophies however, it is very much possible to learn about them simultaneously. I started studying the Tao philosophy at the same time as I was studying Satanic philosophy. If there have ever been 2 opposing philosophies......:)

Knowledge hinders when you stop yourself from doing things because you know too much or too little. Or if you refuse to learn because you're afraid of what you'll find out.

Knowledge depending on what you are taught can be a hinderance at least for myself because what i am taught isn't known by many others, so i teach it in a group of mine. Either it will be considered or shoved aside by people, but what matters to me is that is it shared and not kept to myself. Not to burden others but to empower.

Hindrance, as defined by Requiem, is only a negative factor of education under one condition, and it will be limited to certain individuals. I will give an example of such an individual.

My Great Aunt Lena learned of Jesus Christ. She was taught Christian philosophy. Since gaining this education, she forsakes certain additional education. Her religious training is hindering her ability to study other religions, science, philosophies, political ideals, and the occult (I am sure there is more. This is a quick short list).

However, even in this case, the hindrance is actually caused by the individual, not by the education. I have the same religious training, yet I am not limited in the manner that my Great Aunt is.

So now I must assert, there is no circumstance under which education is in and of itself a negative factor on further education. If hindrance occurs it is because of the individual.

well considering that the individual IS the one getting the learning....then how do you separate the two ideas?
in every instance it then becomes the individuals fault....not only select instances

There is much more for anyone to learn and when that is understood and accepted then it becomes powerful. Mabye not powerful as in a way as some would think.

some knowledge is told to remain hush hush about and THAT is a burden on one's shoulders.

I would have to agree with Cancer--and at the same time, reminded of Plato. Human beings often misinterpret or downright abuse the information they receive at times. Pure knowledge, however, is incorruptible, but only contained piecemeal in the hands of mortals. As a result, the Truth is often distorted by our limited views and that is what makes knowledge a hindrance.

I find these all to be very good questions that streack our imagination of the world around us to new lengths... That is exactly my answer... There is no answer to the questions, it is only what you find in the spectrum of your life to be true... To think of power as knowledge is obsered... Knowledge, in itself, has nothing to do with power you gain... Obviously it helps, but to truely understand the power of knowledge, you must look wihtin yourself... Knowledge is only powerful within you... Knowledge is not power against the world, but a power for your self... Knoiwledge is just a way of testing your outer limits...

lol i totally disagree with that. knowledge IS power depending on what you are taught.

I agree, Gylanah. Knowledge by itself is nothing. It is only what you do with it that makes it powerful. That is easily proven by the fact that there is tons of knowledge out there that no one has any access to and so it is nothing. But, once we find it, and start applying whatever that insight might be to our everyday lives, then it becomes power.

oh but it IS something....

Knowlege as a hinderance? a damn to the mind?

It's the water behind the damn and the damn is damned dogma and the narrows of the channels of the mind which the knowlege must be channeled through....

knowlege is water, it is life, it can be heated so that it can escape any bounds as steam or be frozen to turn mountains to powder by breaking them slowly appart. And yes you can drown in it..... but that's why we have scuba gear and flippers.....

I would beg the question if you have no knowlege of your life have you truely lived? have you even existed if there is nothing to be known? Even the most primative life knows things that there is light and warmth. They respond to this knowlege and continue to exist because of it.

I would beg those who don't like the water to get out and walk in ignorance... for I hear it is is bliss.... but I would not respect you at all for your choice.

I believe that knowledge is power as long as it is used intelligently and with an open mind. When people close their mind and let their ego take over I believe they hinder their ability to learn. Knowledge is what you know, intelligence is what you do with it and how you use it. When people believe they know everything is when their wisdom becomes inexperienced.

There are two different kinds of knowledge. "Secret Knowledge" and "Knowledge of the Secret." Either one can become a hindrance, if you start doubting yourself.

So don't.

sorry Daermon, Oblyvia, what I was aiming for was that the knowledge that you are learning cannot be defined as 'pure' in its essence if you are also learning something which contradicts that knowledge, at the same time, which would then be detrimental to its overall concept.

so, I would not be able to 'know' the truth of satanism if I was reading on christianity, as one would automatically detract from my understanding through seepage of conceived thought...or some such thing...gah...how to get this out clearly...if one said to you trees are brown and green and the other said trees and brown and red, most minds would accept the general consensus that trees are at least brown, but would have subsequent doubts about the other colour..until self experience occurred....we could know that both are true in the perception of the teacher, but which is true for the learner?

Sometimes the teacher and the learner can be one and the same.

"So now I must assert, there is no circumstance under which education is in and of itself a negative factor on further education. If hindrance occurs it is because of the individual."

Unless one LEARNS that the President is in the middle of some large conspiracy theory and THAT cause your life functions to cease... by way of the CIA.

O_o

Sorry... couldn't help that.
Call it a Tourette's tic if you will... >:)

I refuse to let this fall off the front page.

-_-

knowledge is power that the stupid fear. they gather in groups in a vain attempt to destroy those with that power. it is only a hinderence if you make it such.

I think knowledge without application is useless, that's when it hinders. However, if you use knowledge in the wrong way I think it can get very ....messy.

Knowledge is opnly power if employed by those who us ewhat knowledge they have gained to manipulate and reconstruct things to thier will. If the knowledge is unused it cannot be powerful...
and yet knowledge can hinder by causing judgemental errors of a person or religion based upon previous information from or about that person or relgion so in the end knowledge is useless when inuse.

Lost:

Generally that translated to "Knowledge is power unless the person with the knowledge is an absolutle idiot."

Street smarts -vs- Book smarts.

;)

i like street smarts!

I felt the sudden need to bump this.
-_-

Knowledge hurts! I'll just say that....well of course not...that would be silly, though, it does make sense, to me at least.

Knowledge is evil, it's a necessary part of evolution when it comes to how we interact and how our minds develop in the world we live.

Personally, I would say it hinders most of us. The more knowledge we seem to gather, the more ignorant we become of what is lost in the process of gaining the truths or lies of what the world shows us and how we interpret inner struggles, and how we attain knowledge. Though, what sort of knowledge, spiritual, emotional, physical, or mental? It's hard to distinguish the true meaning behind it all.

Perhaps survival drives us in pursuit of knowledge, even if it's to gain some sort of power over others, ourselves or something trivial.

Knowledge is pure only in the fact that humanity has endured years and years of chaos and supposed chaos, that we harness the feelings that the pursuit of ulitmate truth breeds in us, driving us to make good or bad use of what is learned on a personal and global level.

Knowledge is useful. But, evil because once you've exhausted all the questions that really get on your nerves, it's complete insanity to find your head again and question everything once more.

Hmm...I probably didn't answer the question at all..but I had to say something...

i am so confused about this thread

I think its a question of wether you believe that 'What we don't know cannot hurt us', or 'We should be in full possession of the available information in order that we may make an informed decision on the correct course of action to execute to obtain the best results for us.'