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whilst i was at work the other day my boss asked me to type some dementia awarenss stuff up for her and i stumbled upon depression and as i was typing it made me wonder is some of the symptoms of the vampire awakening actually a medical condtition.

for example lack of energy, feeling alone etc needing company all these are signs which can appear in the vampire awakening but also in depression.

but what do you think?

I strongly suspect it would be just that, much like "indigo children" are nothing but hyper active children.

that is true but depression doesn't account that some people get heightend senses, stregnth etc and in some cases blood lust

It kind of does^ There are alot of other possible ways that these people could have a lust for blood without them believing they're "awakened".

fair enough and how would some of those things be?

Anemia, Porphyria, Renfield Syndrome, Celiac Disease(To name a few). There are reasons behind what they may say their "awakenings" were like, and ways to scientifically disprove them. I know some people truely believe that they can be awakened, but there really is no(concrete) proof. As for the strength thing, they could've been having an adrenaline rush, or never had to use their strength fully before being awakened.

there are many many things that happen with a vampire awakening, yes, depression is a common symptom but it wouldn't be mistaken unless the person was a human and just really wanted to be a vampire. As they say vampirism is a curse, those who are didn't want to be cuz it kind of sucks sometimes

yeah i now being a vampire does suck at times especially since i cant really tell any of my friends because they would think i was insane

Also.. (not to offend) most people that are "awakening" tend to be teens, so it could be puberty.

I agree with you on the teen issue Nikki.Also,I guess when people cant come to grips with the fact that vampire or not,they ARE HUMAN,they can get depressed....the world can be very depressing these days.

I just find it hard to believe people when there are other reasons that make logical sense rather than jumping to the conclusion that they're a vampire.

As I said before in another thread, people like to claim or pretend to be something else other than themselves to escape from their miserable lives thus they are simply depressed and cannot accept their lives. Fantasies about another life are bound to happen at some point.

Someone above explained conditions for needing blood very well but another answer is that some humans are twisted enough to believe they need blood when what they need is professional help. Some serial killers were known to drink the blood of their victims. Heightened strength could be due to adrenaline or steroids or muscle hypertrophy.

Excellent posts, Nikki and Maleficus...well said!

As regards the topic question...and speaking from a purely historical evidentiary perspective... no... depression (nor any of the medical/psychological conditions previously listed) has anything at all to do with Vampiric Awakening. All such are unrelated conditions that people attempt to twist into some comparison with Vampire portrayals found in Western fictions.

a very good post UpirLikhyj this has set it straignt for me because when i left work the other day it left me quite complexed shall we say and i thought to my self the best place to put this is here and it is good to see there is quite a few different views on this subject and for me i agree with you after reading what everybody has put so far.

There isn't just one belief in the vampire community about the awakening. You will hear a lot of people talk about that but then there are those that don't believe in an awakening. I am one of them. Just because a person cannot put a name on what they are feeling initially and some may never put any fringe name on it, doesn't mean they go through any physical awakening or recognition that they may be different. There are many beliefs in the actual community and some are nothing like fiction or historical what little information there is in that area.

I can tell you that all of this is a bickering point. I mean very heated debates up and including name calling and threats have happened over this topic and also blood drinking which is a minority activity at least in the American community. There are many communities throughout the world and many of them interconnect but have different views on things.

This is only my opinion but I don't think depression is a trait of a vampiric but more a reaction to feeling different and not being able to talk to other people about it without them thinking they are suffering from mental illness. If you are a teen most likely those in the community will not talk to you about it because of laws in regard to adults and children.

There are no more anemic in the community than any other group of people. Porphyria is rare and I have run into people who say they have that but who knows. I have only heard it once from someone. There are a few types of it. Renfields Syndrome isn't exactly recognized and is kind of considered iffy at best. People who recognize themselves as vampires get ill like anyone else but it seems more to be organ failure or systems that are affected and many get diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or fibromyalgia, but that is the explanation the doctor has for it even though it may not truly be that but they get lumped into that category.

I have been in the community for a long time and I can tell you not everyone is down in the dumps or going on about being dark, etc. etc. etc. That is a stereotype and not everyone is Goth or even involved with fetish pursuits. You would not recognize a difference unless you were a sensitive most likely and they do. I have been asked outright before and I answer with another questions like, you think so and I will get a yes and then I say...OK. In a sense it is a matter of perception and there are factions within factions. I'm connected more with the Merticus people but I was around long before he came out of the woodwork and our organizations embrace most all beliefs and we try not to get judgmental. Then you have the Stregoi Vii beliefs and although people mix with these people the mainstream thinks of them more as a cult sort of. But they intermix and again I doubt if any of these people along with the rest would think any true awakening dealt with a mix up with depression. Every generation that comes up has different ideas on the symptoms and what an awakening really is. It is accepted but like I stated I don't believe in them. I think it is normal changes at puberty that some have and happen to be a vampiric and not the other way around.

Because of the internet there is more information out there and some very erroneous information I might add. I feel some are just impressionable people who yearn to be what they think is something more and yes, they could misinterpret depression because some person has that on their website as a symptom.

As a Mentor it is their responsability to know who is an Awakening soul and who is not. There are many social, medical, and phycological disorders that mimic Vampirism.
Knowing those who you choose to mentor and bring into the community is of the utmost importance. We have no disre to feed and impower any one who is not honest in there motives, fair balanced in the judgments, and ready to become one with their nature.
We work with them over long periods of time in order to understand who they are, where they came from and what their true motives and nature are.
Ultimately a Mentor is just as much a teacher as they are a sponsor and they are expected to uphold the standards and process we use to determine if some one is having an actual awakening.

We choose our students wisely and that standard does not include guess work... Trust me, we know if you are or if you are not.

I find that Humankind...particularly the males thereof...thrives on establishing secular, religious, martial and philosophical organizations propounding their own invented teachings and enforcing all such indoctrinations through hierarchies by which to gain power and control over others. This seems to always be the ultimate goal: power and control... not true enlightenment, which is always an internal journey of personal development and inner realizations requiring no membership in or subordination to any outside organization or group.

Seek no "mentor"... but yourself. And then be always honest to and with that "mentor." Flee from those who would be "mentors" over you, for such usually have yet to learn humility, themselves, which key virtue is always the single greatest prerequisite to actual learning and, thus... true wisdom.

... as for Vampiric Awakening, of course, such exists. My experience...and that recorded historically by others... is that it usually occurs in two phases:

1. Self realization... when first you "connect the dots" explaining the actual Vampiric uniqueness you possess and what its portents for your future development are, both personally as well as the far-greater and more important potentials awaiting you in your future relationships with others; and,

2. Communion... with another who is equal with you, who is just as fully capacitated as yourself and with whom you are truly able to bond...to truly become ONE. This second phase is the only true and ultimate Awakening...for only then are you able to enjoy to their full potentials all that you are, all that you can become...together. I speak of true historical Slavic Vampirism... not the fictional versions found in the West.


"He/She Who Has Ears to Hear..."

Upir
Seek no "mentor"... but yourself. And then be always honest to and with that "mentor." Flee from those who would be "mentors" over you, for such usually have yet to learn humility, themselves, which key virtue is always the single greatest prerequisite to actual learning and, thus... true wisdom.

Upir I am Stunned!!
So what you are implying is that you have always been your own teacher?? You have never followed in the foot steps of another in order to discover the knowledge and wisdom they possess... never read a book or followed someone else's option??
You are truly your own original huh.

Mentors are not leaders of a cult, and anyone with such power hungry goals can be seen for what they truly are in much the same way as anyone else with false motives whether they be mentors or students. This is why there is a long and slow process of building... because you are constructing a foundation of trust and understanding as you learn and grow.
Real mentors don't fear scrutiny because those who follow do so based on previous tests of which their mentors character and wisdom with stood such tests. If the mentor is not tested and challenged then the student could be mislead... no true mentor or teach would dispute the testing of themselves or their students.

But as we all know "scrutiny" can be misused and abused as well, leading to witch hunts and unrealistic representations. Some times orders and organizations need to be formed in order to protect a process and to protect that which would and can be stolen, misused, and abused... including knowledge. That facet of society as a whole is a normal function, whether they be unions or skilled trades. Trying to demonize Mentoring in a specific domain because you want to devalue the importance of that group whether they be vampires and or our sub culture is as shameful as it is harmful.

This post truly saddens me. :(

Dont be sad or depressed Sev.You,Upir,Dabs,others and myself have been debating for years here about all this.Sometimes we will agree on posts or parts of them...sometimes we dont.
Whether we agree or not on all or even most things,it doesnt mean we are not enlightened in some way by even a post we might disagree with.
Btw,some actually are self taught about ...pretty much everything in life...I am one of them.It is known as being an Autodidact.

I dont believe in self appointed "Mentors" either,but maybe some people really do need them for a certain period or point in their lives..

Sorry,had too post that and continue..

Anyway,its always a good thing to bring to light dangers which might be lurking within the guise of "guidance" in mentorship or vampires.

You know, when a horse gets hurt out here,when Im out of down or something and I get here to fix it,I have to try to picture what might have occured to cause the injury or sickness in the first place.t

My point is,sometimes you can have an abundance of things that will cause the same symptoms ,so honestly?trying to determe whether depression is caused by an vampire awakening is going to next to impossible.
I do know that dpression could be caused if someone wanted to be a vampire so badly..with all the bells and whistles only to discover that it isnt at all as it had seemed prior.

Teachers, yes. Mentors (would-be authority figures seeking subordinates/disciples)... no.

I have to agree with Upir on the mentor thing.. If you listen to yourself and take the time to learn off of everything around you than you will know. Of course, everyone has teachers and such that they pick up things from, but ultimately, you have to learn for yourself, teach yourself.

Same thing with awakening. You can't ask others what's going on, you have to ultimately access the situation and discover for yourself.
The answers are out there, you just have to "see".

Also when it comes to corrupt or power hungry leaders, chances are that their "group" or "cult" is not going to know their leader's true nature due to indoctrination, as the way of getting that power is to deceive people into following them ergo its simply clever lies. Just look what that Charles Manson managed to do.


Not saying what you follow or believe is false Severus, I'm just using cults as an example of how it can be twisted or used for power. What we choose to believe or follow is completely and rightfully up to everyone but take in mind that every human mind is different and not everyone is going to believe in the same things as you and they should not have to if they don't want to, so when mentioning your beliefs or claiming to be a vampire, you should not really be offended or defensive when someone questions it as by simply choosing to talk about it, you are the one asking for it to be questioned. If I was a vampire, I would still question someone if they claimed to be one....not to mention bitch slapping and nutting a goth/emo if they asked to be turned nor would I be on a site life this....too stereotypical.

Upir is correct in saying that one should teach themselves because what one person teaches you is not the same as another that will teach you, so one or both could be misleading or false.
History is not truly accurate as its the victor that decides history and so Its best to choose one's own path and find their own truths but even then, a person can actually deceive themselves as well.

What you must understand is there are different groups within what is loosely called the vampire community. Severus is one segment, Stregoi Vii another then the one people just called the "vampire community," the TOV and their group, those from the Temple of Set and many others. Many have directly opposing ideas. If you merely use the term awakening to be realization then yes but I don't believe everyone calls it vampirism from personal experience. More people have a direct link to information with the invention of the internet. I went a different direction than actually talking to people and looking for those who had a similar experience. The spiritual side of things for the most part in the one I called the "vampire community" is somewhat shunned. Those who go off on vampire gods and things like that are considered fringe.

Everyone gets down one time or another but I don't see that this group has anymore people who are depressed than any other cross group of people. I have very strong opinions and I don't go along with what I consider a lot of the nonsense of what some think about vampirism. I also allow others to believe what they want because I can't nor can anyone else prove their ideas are wrong except for a few. As for mentors, the idea of that is prevalent in the overall vampire groups. It isn't a matter of control, it is merely a teacher that is usually dedicated to a few people or one, that depends. Some like hierarchy and others find it anathema. BUT even so they keep creating organizations and some of them directly in opposition to others. The depression end of it usually pertains to interactions within the various communities and not something that is mistakenly thought of as vampirism. I don't see the connection personally to depression.

It's actually a very complex group of people with a lot of different ideas from many places with many different backgrounds and beliefs. It is so diverse that it sort of makes the question a bit moot.

That would be a first for me to equate depressions with Vampire awakening

I've said this before and I'll say it again for the point of this discusion.
When it comes to Vampirism I like to think of it sorta like a trip to the supermarket. You have a store with all of it's products lined up on the shelves think of that stuff as data - information.

When you pick it up and you take it to the check out and you pay for it, then that information becomes your personal knowledge.
When you get it home and you cook it up and consume it that's when your knowledge truly becomes understanding. Only once you have used the information in this way, had the ability to reflect on the understanding of how it fueled you... can you see if it was empowering or not. That "knowing" is the moment information and knowledge become wisdom.

The problem is that if you start out with junk information you end up with junk wisdom.

So when you go into the market looking for the meaning of vampirism and you walk out with Materialism or Darwinism, or any other ism you are already walking down the wrong path. So the key is to know who has right information in the first place and listen to what they have to share. That exchange is teaching and mentoring... and that's not a bad thing.

You all have this David Koresh/Branch Davidians religious sect idea in your heads when you think of Vampire mentor and our community is nothing like that. Because of the delicate nature of what we teach most people never learn very much and simply stop attending. I say Coven and you think occult, I say underground and you think of something shady. You ascribe meaning to the words you hear based on your own view as an outsider. Thus the "malice" you see is placed there by your own doing and if you want to talk about an awakening or answer a question you should probably speak only for that which you have personally experienced.

If we did a show of hand here how many of you are or have been a member of a coven, had an awakening of your own, our have been a member of a cult??

I'd bet the number is pretty low, yet everyone shares what they learned "personally and first hand" without the benifit of a teach or mentor... Right!! ????

When you put it that way Sev,the thing that comes to mind when it comes to this topic,is possible "buyers remorse."

Excellent logical progression, Oceanne. And therein lies the issue: all such groups contain there own "dogma", there own "orthodoxies" of how to view and define and act as "vampires." All wrapped up, pre-packaged and then publicized and marketed to the vampire-wannabee masses by all the would-be "mentors" out there...such as you, Sev.

In one area, though, you are absolutely correct, Sev: you must seek out the correct information. However, you won't find it on any store shelf our waiting in any coven. You must research it out. And if/when you do, you will find that being a Vampire has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with being a member of any "coven" or aligning oneself with any "sire" or mentor.

Again... all such groups with their vanity-driven hierarchies and inherent continual power struggles are mundane Human pursuits appealing only to mundane Human insecurities and petty Human (primarily male) pride.

Over the years here,I have heard time and time again how the vampire awakening is more of a spiritual event more than anything else.
With that said,I find myself a bit confused,because most of those I know personally,experience spiritual awakening alone.Many times when alone on a walkabout or equivilant.I know during my time in this,I actually,didnt want anyone else around because my awakening had naught to do with anyone other than myself .It was strickly my own communion with the cosmos .And it was then,I set my own standards of beliefs and rules that I,myself would follow from then on.
See,it doesnt take another person besides ourself to awaken spirituality.At least,I didnt believe so.
So in the vampire community,to me any "guidance" would be more about rules and regs ,or some other protocol ,as opposed to spiritual guidance.Henceforth,it would repeat itself with periods of enlightenment or transcendence..which,I also do alone.I kindof thought everyone did.

"If we did a show of hand here how many of you are or have been a member of a coven, had an awakening of your own, our have been a member of a cult??"

I have been a member of a coven/cult, I resisted indoctrination and challenged the leader's beliefs and found holes in his "beliefs" which were just deception to control the flock and I outed him to the others. Cult was over, though it was not done so quickly, brainwashing is something not easily undone and even succeeding in shattering those beliefs can cause mental breakdowns as you are taking away what they came to embrace almost fanatically.

Point is folks, if you dare ever claim to be super powerful or even a human vampire, demon, lycanthrope or any other preternatural being, you are automatically giving us permission to ruthlessly question you, don't like it? then don't give us a reason to ask questions. Either provide proof to satisfy us or keep your claims of being supernatural hush hush so no one can question you.

My view on the matter is simple, "put up or shut up". Its the same excuses too when you ask them about it, If they say "I can't tell you because its a secret" then you have to wonder why they mention it in the first place.
Another excuse is "we are not like hollywood vampires, we are not undead" then you're not vampires as according to the folklore, vampires were ugly, skinny walking corpses that sucked blood while visiting their living, sleeping relatives and thus they are undead.

Upir and Oceane, you are both correct, one should seek out their own knowledge but they must not invest in it too much as it can be for nothing or not satisfying as then they will come to regret what was sacrificed to get it.

A lot of covens and so called magic groups ask you to join before revealing anything and sometimes there is "conveniently" a subscription to pay for. Either way you don't really learn much but find yourself sucked into their beliefs and then they keep telling you to be patient over and over before knowledge is given to you, by then you have been in it for years and you still don't know much.

Depression can have many causes, just ask a few members here, since this site attracts goths and emos, they know too well of depression but it does not make them a vampire. As someone said above, fantasies can be used as a means to cope.

Human vampires claim to be able to gain energy from others and seem to believe that slightly stronger and faster.

Two problems with this. One, vampires feed on blood not energy, that is a succubus thing so when they (the group) are calling themselves vampires, it seems they are trying to get the attention and fame that vampires have that the succubus doesn't have, sad really but one can't truly blame them because vampires are indeed much more popular than the succubus despite sharing some similar folklore. Just think about it, someone simply claiming to be able drain energy won't get much attention but if they claim to be "vampires" then everyone flocks to them like a moth to a flame.


Two, they are not so strong, they can easily be beaten to a pulp and they will not rabidly heal or drain energy from their attacker.

We've had this debate a billion and one times here in the forms... and when asked I do answer the who, what, and why about real vampirism.
Unlike many here I do active work in the community and not just mentoring. I work with real researchers who are attempting to find the "proof" and the "answers". I have even given the names and institution of these folks so that they can be looked up for anyone who wishes to, but repeatedly adding and dropping names over and over again become a bit taxing. Upir and Occean have been here long enough to know this.
My Record is here for anyone to look up by simply typing my name in the form search box... you'll get ever form conversation I've ever commented in.

Secondly, For some people to pass me off as a snake oil sales man out to hurt and lie to people is more than offensive. I try very hard to deal within facts and real history. I never try to blur the lines and in fact at great personal risk to myself I often defend the clarity that Hollywood and other medias have crossed over in the view of the general public.

People talk about researching the truth for themselves but when you speak to them what you get is the same old rehashed story about what is and isn't in the folklore.
Vampire is a German translation for the Slavic word Upir Just as Vampyre is the French translation for the same word. The western European word comes from a large cross section of legends of which only part is Slavic. So anyone who rushes in with the idea of that a Vampire can only being a creature that is an undead blood sucker is someone who simple followed the pack and knows diddly-squat... or worse is flat out lying to you.

Well,one thing is for certain,we all are together in our desire for the truth,or proof about Vampires.

Oceanne... as always... great points. Very true re: the personal nature of actual spiritual realizations, discoveries and "awakenings." And as for actual teachers...absolutely we need them. However, all such who are legitimate do not aggrandize themselves...but, instead, teach on subjects they are credentialed to teach.

And, Ahmet, whether you are a charlatan or not I don't know. But at least you know enough to have learned that the modern word "vampire" has as its actual historical origins the Slavic word "Upir." The actual historical vampire...and thus the actual historical meaning of that term...is only to be found in carefully studying Slavic vampire lore. Anything else only follows later and is, thus, increasingly separated from the original truth of who and what an actual Vampire was... and still is.

And you are also correct that they did not drink blood... or "feed" off psychic energy.

Thank you Upir.
Your last sentence I believe might be at the root of many a Vampire "awakening" depression too.As there could absolutely be depression caused by the stark realization that vampires are not what they had believed or hoped they would be.
And lets face it.If you stay in the house all day and dont get enough Vitamin D,you are going to get depressed!It is medical fact.As long as you do that,you will stay tired and sad.So yes,I guess if you believe you are going to fry like bacon in the sunlight or your circadian rythym is out of wack cause you stay up all night on the computer or partying..well? Depression and lethargy is a sure thing.

Once again I am Stunned!!

Not really sure why people are taking this so personally but it's clear that you have an already formed your opinion Upir... of the community and of me. I will address your remarks by simply saying that Ahmet is correct in the idea that there are many legends and regional tails which make up the folklore we call vampire. These stories date back thousands of years and have many places of origin from around the world. Even the Slavic interpretations have missed origins in that is some tails the Vampire is a mist or an animal which takes human form to feed. There are many tales of vampires being harmed by crosses and crucifixions, holly water and garlic... all are, as you state "dogma" injected to turn the masses to Christianity and have nothing to do with real vampirism. So there are truths and fictions even within the lore it's self. I personally believe that those who claim to know the history and then say that vampires have to be dead do so because they don't believe in there existence and use this singular part of the legend to empower there argument by boldly stating... " If you're not dead then your not a vampire".
Sounds a lot like... how did you say it??

"vanity-driven mundane Human pursuits appealing only to mundane Human insecurities and petty Human (primarily male) pride."


As for the VALUE of mentoring, I find it to be the most important thing you can do in an actual awakening. Like the analogy I used in past thread with Martial arts, I can tell you a lot of things but without the experience of hands on training you'll never understand how many facets to it there really is. I'm not sure how many people will understand that but guiding someone and mentoring them is nothing like a class room teacher, although that setting does some times happen.

Mentoring someone again is a lot like learning anything, in that some people will get some aspect right away and not others. So mentoring someone in an Awakening is a tailored experience for both mentor and student. There are many types of knowledge which can be learned. There are spiritual aspects, ritual and magical aspects as well as Esoteric and Arcane historical facts.
I would start out learning about you and what your strengths and weaknesses are and work within those to help you grow and understand our ways. This approach spares the student many years of random research... of which not all is fruit full. I build a personal relationship with those I mentor, the process is empowering to the student and that is what validated me and what I do. If you are told what to do and have no control then that would be a cult and again if your paying attention would spot easily.

---------------------------------------------------------------

ThexDarkness,

There are so many things wrong with this Posting I'm not really sure where to get started... so I'm not. Whatever you believe is what you believe, my trying to point out the obivios would be a waste since you haven't seen the obvious by now.

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Occeane,

I want you to know that as with Upir this is not a personal attack, just a response to your comments.
You are 100% correct in that an awakening is a spiritual experience, an understanding of self and surroundings. But just because an awakening is an individual experience does not necessarily mean that one must be alone to have that experience. Many cultures use a spiritual ritual to gain enlightenment.

What I do find Curious is that in the same forum The vampire can be described as being The undead and that is accepted and a few posts later it can be described as a spiritual process and again no one questions it. How can the walking dead have a spiritual anything?? If you take the folklore at face value then vampires are soulless and can't have an awakening at all... so the question that should be asked is which is real and which is just a story??

Perhaps I am not the one who need to do some more research??
By the way. Albert Einstein was once quoted as saying that "research" is what one does when they don't know what they're doing... Now if you want to argue with Einstein be my guest.

"Once again I am Stunned!!

Not really sure why people are taking this so personally"

Sounds like you're the one taking it personally when you really shouldn't. As I said before, claim to be a vampire, prepare to be questioned ruthlessly. If I was a vampire, you can bet your ass I would still question you and your beliefs, and If I was silly enough to blurt my vampirism out on this site I would not take offence to skeptism or constant questions and I'm pretty I would feel great not depressed as anything more than mundane is a plus in my book. I am very tolerant of religion and people's beliefs as everyone has a right to it but throw it around in presence then I will question it as should anyone who is not a blind unintelligent sheep

As Upir has posted before, vampire predates some folklore and had different meanings and translations, I did not ignore that, But where it all somewhat became more "familiar" with people is the tales of the emaciated walking corpses with ocd, visiting their sleeping family to feed, and as you pointed out, superstition run amok and lots of stories got spread so in one way the origin of the "popular" vampire is folklore, not what came before it and thus its where certain groups like to emulate one way of the other.

The question you should ask yourself is why call yourselves vampires? if its not for attention then you should avoid the word "vampire" even if its what you truly believe you are as it draws far too much attention for such a mopre or less private coven/group If you drain energy non-physically or sexually then that would make them something different.

I am an open minded person and I believe there could be more to this world than meets the eye so don't get me wrong but I will not take someone's word and instantly believe it.

Oceane, good reasons there.
Depression has many causes, unfufilled life, clinal depression, loss or feelings of powerlessness and loneliness. As I said before this does not automatically equal vampirism.

One should not forsake mentors or teachers but one must not remain with them for long as mentors knowingly or not, influence their protege to certain paths and beliefs which takes away the individuality and original mind set of the protege. Best thing to do, learn from a mentor to a certain point and take your own path.

Sev,Dont worry ,I dont take anything you say to me as a personal attack.You always post great posts,whether I agree with them or even part.So,lets get that issue out of the way.I respect all that you post.And I always learn from them.So thank you,more than anything alright?

I am sitting here contemplating what you are saying thruout the thread,knowing you teach and train in martial arts.Sooo,I am trying to use that rationale somewhat when it comes to the whole awakening thing.We have known and debated here a long time.you know I am going to pick everything apart before I accept something at face value,brining up things Ido not see addressed with said posts..Again dont worry.

I can absolutely see where a percieved awakening could be mistaken for depression,and this is all Im trying to say.

Sorry for the double post..

Especially so if that awakening did not include enlightenment..a "student's" personal awakening/enlighenment is not going to be the same as the teacher's...ever.And thats where things get tricky.

In my mind anyway.

I once encountered a group of people who claimed to be vampires and I can't recall if they mentioned an awakening but according to them, there are some signs that can let you know if you're a vampire i.e a dark ring around the iris. Its been awhile since I was in contact with them, maybe I will question them further about it but I had ages ago, posted info about them or at least about their site and chat room in the database. Though one should not simply believe them right off the bat and without proof, especially since they also believe in "slayers", its mentioned on their site.

To clarify any misunderstandings:
Sev, please be aware I was not saying you or your beliefs/claims are fake, fraudlent or false. I am merely telling you that you and others must be prepared to be questioned or asked for evidence and proof when publicly revealing your affiliation or status, especially when it is about vampires and you should not really take offence about it as its always has and is going to happen.

LOL ..nooo,Not the ole Iris ring shpeal!



Im not sure who came up with that one,but let me help clear this one up quickly.
It is known as the Limbal ring and it serves humans as an honest signal of health and youth.
It has everything to do with repoduction and absolutely nothing to do with being a Vampire. It fades with age and it fades in those with medical problems. This ring is there to signal potential mates and most will make the decision to take or reject a person based on this ring without ever even realizing it.

But it only takes a little knowledge or research to debunk most of this type of junk.Not a mentor.
Seriously.

Mordrakus... excellent point re: that anyone claiming to be a vampire deserves to have such an improbable claim challenged and questioned. As Dr. Carl Sagan stated so decisively: "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

You are also correct that any real Vampire would not reveal himself openly as such...much less seek recognition, fame, or the adulation of would-be disciples. The most he might do openly is perhaps provide verifiable information regarding the true nature of actual "Vampirism" for the intellectual study and consideration of those capable of appreciating it.

Of course, were such an actual Vampire to be revealed somehow...he most certainly would possess the singular defining characteristic(s) separating him from all his Human counterparts...and would be able to produce the actual empirical evidence proving such the case.

Oceanne

I'm not offended as much as I am shocked by the attitudes of some people's postings. Considering Upir stated that a real vampire at most would "perhaps provide verifiable information regarding the true nature of actual "Vampirism" for the intellectual study and consideration of those capable of appreciating it."
Which is what I try to do when I can!! I speak about things like as directly and intellectually as one can when it comes to Spiritualism. It's not any easier to provide proof of what I believe in that it is to provide proof of Creationism or Darwinism. I attempt to show how science is realizing threw real studying the relationship between what I do and science. Things like Quantum entanglement and the DNA Phantom Effect. This isn't ritual arcane magic... it's science.

I so I will say this...
Catholics partake in a ceremonial ritual every week. Where by which they believe that a human priest has the ability (via ritual) of transmutation. They believe with out any proof needed that an inanimate object can be turned into the very real physical and spiritual embodiment of a 2000 year old dead prophet. They believe that this spiritual energy can be then absorbed into them by symbolically consuming the object. And this idea is excepted by Billions of people and is more than likely what some of you believe and practice yourselves in your every day lives.
But I tell you that there is a way to absorb a person's energy via touch or blood and suddenly I'm a crack pot cult leader hell bent on "power, recognition, fame, or the adulation of would-be disciples."

There is a ritual or believe like this in every culture and religion on earth. With science making head way in the direction of these beliefs and not away from them is the belief in energy exchange and what I do that far fetched??

No one called or thinks you're a crackpot cult leader Sev, so don't put words in our mouths, you are being defensive and you are taking it way too personally which I'm afraid, is the typical attitude of someone who is unwilling or unable to provide proof or evidence of their claims, Those kind of people will shift the topic from the "investigation of the claim" to claiming they are being "bullied and victimized" by the questioner, not saying this is what you are doing Severus but it is a common stance for those kinds of people, so don't follow that path.

It would be so much simpler and easy if something like this happened:
"I'm a vampire" "do you have proof?" "yep. *gives info, details, demonstration videos etc*"
and then that is that, all finished and resolved, though do you notice that the exchange above has not happened much or at all? Instead we get situations like this.

There is no attitude here, I say these things in a calm and collected manner, I am merely just brutally honest and blunt.
It would not be nice or respectable of you if you truly thought that we all should believe everything that people say with no proof to back their word, that would make us gullible morons.

Severus' post:
"Let me ask a question if we where on a website that boasts it's self as being the home for real Christian across the globe and the Forum Topic was the transmutation of bread and wine to the spiritual energy of Christ. Would you "Ruthlessly question their beliefs" and state how "silly" they are form expressing these beliefs on a christian website??

And for the record, We are on a website which promotes itself as being a home for "REAL VAMPIRES".
If you don't have an open mind and aren't willing to hear from those who do believe themselves to be real vampires then why are you here??"

My response:
Easy question to answer, if this was indeed a christian site then I would still absolutely mercilessly and ruthlessly question anyone who claimed to hear or see god/jesus, have visions and prophecies or transmutation powers, hell I would still question them even if I had those powers myself because that does not mean that they have them as well. I would provide proof of any gift I had that I mentioned.

And as for this site, it was originally an archive before it evolved into what it is today and you have the member who designed or wrote that intro to thank for the "real vampire" part, it does not speak for all of vr. Think about it this way Sev, there would not be much members here if it simply said "place for goth/emo wannabe vampires and posers", though there is lot them here anyway.

Having an open mind does not equal this:

"I'm a vampire but I won't provide proof" "ok, I believe you".

No, that is just blind stupidity. Open minded means you are open to the possibility of the existence of the paranormal but not an automatic believer. We are willing to hear and we did, now we ask for proof.


I will repeat myself again here and say I am not saying what you are saying is false, just don't expect people to believe you at your word and don't think that people will not question you. Remember, by claiming to be a vampire or part of a group of vampires, you are automatically given us permission to question you. You are inviting it. You should be used it by now if you have been on this site awhile.

Mordrakus... It is a rare delight to read posts as logically succinct and comprehensive as yours; it is a pleasure to have you here. Your points and concerns concisely and accurately mirror my own.

I am curious, however, given his recent posts, as to how Severus defines Vampirism.

Sev... As you have compared Vampirism with Christianity (a religion), is it your view that Vampirism is, therefore, also a religion, thus explaining your comparing the two? And if so... who are the actual "vampires"? Those "converted" to and instructed in that religion? Or those adorated in such a religion (as is Jesus in Christianity)? Or perhaps those mentoring the students/disciples of that religion?

You are correct... It's not personal.

It is how ever extremely taxing for people like me when every other post that we make is put under a microscope and requires a 6 paragraph response, which must also satisfy everyone or some how what I've said is some how invalid.
Upir you obviously have studied and researched vampirism.
I take that fact at face value based on your level of personal knowledge. But has anyone ever asked for proof of how you obtained what you now?? Have you ever been "ruthlessly grilled over how you gained your information, where you studied and what makes you an expert??
I mean for all we know your nothing but an unemployed couch potato with to much internet time on your hands.

If you folks would apply the same set of standard you require of people like me then nobody would make a posting in here... ever!!
I could very easily say what was said in this thread... I could say that if any of you were a "real scientist" doing "real research" why would you be on a website like this, arguing in forums about what is or isn't a vampire. You would instead be taking notes and observing the conversation not shaping it.
That could be a counter argument, but I choose to focus on the subject and not the resume of everyone who posts.

So when someone says "I Can Bet My Ass" that it's open season on my posts, simply because I say I'm a "Real Vampire" I do take it some what harshly. Especially when I have been on VR for 4 years and post all the time in the forms, I am on the friends list of a lot of the same people in these forums. My profile is very descriptive as to who I am and what I believe in. I have stated for the record many time what I believe the true nature of vampirism to be.

Many of you know that I have worked with a small portion of the scientific community on several occasions to help bridge the gap between science and vampirism. I am currently involved with a long term study for the University of Buffalo and have worked closely with people like (Author) John Edger Browning on subjects regarding the vampire community. I've been an active member of the vampire community for over 15 years and know most of the key players of our community personally. I own a real world coven ... which is listed among the top 20 vampire covens in North America.
If there is an expert on vampirism and the vampire culture/community I'd say I qualify!!
Yet if I don't bring that resume to every thread I post in I'm treated like a teenage Twilight fan who has to prove the validity of every word I say.

So if you really want to know the truth then perhaps you could try listening to what is said, study it for yourselves and then comment... because this default, Prove yourself stuff is getting old really fast.

Upir:

Sev... As you have compared Vampirism with Christianity (a religion), is it your view that Vampirism is, therefore, also a religion, thus explaining your comparing the two? And if so... who are the actual "vampires"? Those "converted" to and instructed in that religion? Or those adorated in such a religion (as is Jesus in Christianity)? Or perhaps those mentoring the students/disciples of that religion?


No my friend... Vampirism is not a religion.
My comparison was not to Christianity, but to the ritual of communion. The ritual process by which wine and bread are tranmutated in the living energy of Christ. The individual then takes that spiritual energy into themselves by consuming the object. The belief is that an object can embody spiritual energy and that energy can be taken in and absorbed by another being. This believe is excepted by billions of people and practices weekly around the world. Vampires have a belief that the body it's self possesses spiritual energy as well and that this energy can also be absorb through consumption of an object. In our case it isn't the blood of Christ but human blood in general.

My point was that a billion Catholics share a similar belief, yet they aren't required to prove or validate their rights and rituals at every turn. Their ideology is taken at face value, it is known and fully understood by those entering into a conversation with a Christian. That Ideology is either excepted or rejected by the individual and it doesn't need to be validated for the conversation to take place.
Like wise if your on a website for vampires about vampires debating whether someone is a vampire or whether they are depressed is... well pointless. Like in my original posting when I discussed the fact that most mentors or coven masters are aware of the signs and what to look for.
So if someone is depressed then the signs of a medical condition will be present, if they are vampiric the signs for that will be present as well. It's up to us to know which is which.

Thats just it Sev,those millions of Catholics have been going on with the "fight" for thouands of years.Why? Because there is no "proof" that God exists.
And so,what has become accepted is their faith in God.
Shoot,I have to go but will be back to finish this post.

Hi Sev, and thanks for the clarification. I see your point now and hope to perhaps add a clarification of my own regarding it.

The rite of communion is a religious rite that offers the adherent no actual physical benefit; it's all belief driven and with any benefit occurring after death. Thus, there is no way to know whether such belief is at all justified (the inherent "beauty" of religion in that while adherents must "pay" now in both tithes and offerings as well as submission and obedience to their religious leaders, yet those same leaders aren't required to give anything back in return). Yet where vampires are concerned, according to the Western fictions that invented the "psy"-feeding trait, the vampire requires such energy to stay "alive." This, were such vampires real, belief alone would not suffice given that there would indeed be hard evidence of whether the "vampire" becomes literally medically weakened and/or does without it...or not.

Does = dies! Damn swype!

Additionally, the Christian does not take communion so as to evidence identity as Otherkin (a preternatural being). Yet this is exactly what those purporting to be "vampires"do. Thus, this is not an expression of faith or humility to a higher power, as is the rite of communion, but instead an expression of extreme vanity in deluding themselves and others into believing that they are, themselves, a form of "higher power" in being... "vampires."

Of course, the greater dilemma for all such wanna-be vampires is the unfortunate and undeniable fact that "psy"-energy feeding by vampires is a trait never mentioned in any Eastern/Central European vampire account and is the sole invention of Western fiction writers ... same as the even more recent fictional vampire "traits" such as sparkling skin (Twilight) and snap-down fangs (True Blood).

Occeane,

You obviously had much more to say so I will wait until you have had that opportunity to submit a proper reply... after all it should be ladies first.

------------------------------------------------------------

Upir,

My use of the ritual of communion was an example by comparison only. I doubt any group would be 100% suitable for a line by line, side by side parallel to vampirism.

And you assume that there is no physical gain from either practice. The body is not simply a physical thing. Mental and spiritual well being or a lack of them can have severe and profound medical affects which in the long term do manifest physically.
Please don't have me post the "soul test" practice again. lol
As I have stated many times before there is no current testing standard which would measure one's soul, Ka, Chi, or spiritual fortitude... But the effects of living like a vampire are very present scientifically.
Most of the science we have done to this point shows that we live longer, look young, heal slightly faster and rarely become sick even when we are deliberately exposed to sicknesses. Take away our ability to feed properly and the opposite transpires, we quickly become sick for no discernible reason. We become lethargic, weak, and if left to this status even become mentally unbalanced.

Yes many of these negative side effects can be faked given enough of a preset level of medical knowledge, but that is not true for the latter.
Never the less we are working on it, and I'm not saying that you should believe my every word, but most of you should at least keep an open mind to the scientific process... some things simple require a measure of belief based on the facts we do have.

Sev... the scientific process (Scientific Method,as it is actually called) requires an open mind; an open mind to actual evidences and/or logical argument based on such. And I find no such either offered in your words or inherent within them. Instead, I find belief-based dogma masquerading as such.

You offer obviously heart-felt beliefs that, again, have you composing vampirism with religious fervor and faith. For you, living like a vampire (as you interpret such) helps you live longer and stay healthier. This is belief, only.

As all such self-forbiddend "vampires" like you, such beliefs ignore the facts regarding vampire origins and even later Western permutations on the Vampire legends. According to their actual Slavic origins, vampires neither feed off blood or energy. Yet your beliefs ignore thus.

And in the West, Vampires eat NO food but subsist entirely off the feeding they do of others. Do you?

(How swype got "self-forbiddnd" out of "self-forbiddend", I can only imagine!)

Obviously, Sev, you are free to believe whatever you like. However, believing it doesn't make it so. And, more to the point... it doesn't make your beliefs vampiric. Neither in their Slavic homelands nor in Western fictions have Vampires ever acted or lived as you do.

Swype did it again! the word is not "self-forbiddend" but "self forbiddend"... s t y l e d, just in case it changes it again after I post)

"My point was that a billion Catholics share a similar belief, yet they aren't required to prove or validate their rights and rituals at every turn. "

Well Sev, if a religious person killed someone and told the police god told him to do it, they would not go "oh if god told you then its ok, you're free to go, may god forgive me for holding you"

Would not happen like that at all, they would simply arrest him and probably deem him mentally ill. Religious people do get questioned a lot of times, especially when they are very vocal about their beliefs or use them to explain certain situations.
Since religion is usually not a topic allowed in forums due to flame wars, there is not going to be much questioning going on about it which is why you haven't seen any of it here.

Oceanne said it perfectly, its the faith in it that is accepted. Take that silly star wars stuff for example, they have literally made the jedi a religion and I believe I read somewhere its even legally recognized in some areas as such but we all know a jedi is just fictional.

Upir probably does get questioned, I have read his profile and its very interesting stuff but I would not automatically without proof believe it but I think he had links and a few references on his profile (can't recall at the moment, let him confirm it)

As Upir of said, the whole energy absorbing thing is more or less a new thing. Which begs the question, why call yourselves vampires if its not for attention or what you are or something you can't prove?
The very word "vampire" draws attention and if upir is correct, its not what you lot are.

if your group/coven is private then don't pull people's eyes to it, if you don't like getting "grilled" then don't give us a reason to. No self respecting "vampire" or one who wants to keep his/her and their coven secrets, would ever reveal themselves and if they do, then they are asking for it.

If I made such claims I would prove it. I would make a video demo of it etc.

As I said before I am not saying you're a liar or a fraud, I respect you and your beliefs but words are not enough, we have all listened and now like any other with a good brain, we want proof i.e video demonstration of your energy draining capabilities.


My questioning of you and your coven is not really about whether you are right or wrong, but whether or not you can actually prove it to be true and be willing to do so.


We are not being harsh at all Severus, we are just not being gullible to believe someone at their word.

Lets make an example shall we?

Say I have unique gifts, I then ask you to jump off a cliff and I will tell you I will safely lower you down to the ground via telekinesis.

Now would you jump immediately or would you ask for proof or a demonstration first?

Ok I can see that I'm going to have to do this, break it down in order to respond to everyone properly, Upir and MordrakusxMortalitas in specific.

So prepare yourselves for a "really long" posting here.

The idea of the vampire is not new... it's Ancient!! And as Ahmet and our resident guru (even though he appearently hates mentors or masters) Upir were correct in their understanding of the Slavic/Western European to Eastern European translations.
But the term"Upir" does necessarily translate from Slavic lineage alone there are Similar terms in turkic as well as Bulgarian and Macedonian (vampir), Croatian (vampir), Czech and Slovak (upír), Polish (wąpierz), and perhaps East Slavic-influenced (upiór). Ukrainian (upyr), Russian (upyr'), Belarusian (upyr).

Again Note that many of these languages have also borrowed forms such as "vampir/wampir" subsequently from the southern portions of Western Europe, these are distinct from the original local words for the creature. The exact etymology is unclear because we are attempting to trace the lineage across several centuries, where by 90% of it's existence is passed down through verbal usage. Among the proposed proto-Slavic forms there is another theory (although less widespread, that the Slavic languages have borrowed the word from a Turkic term for "witch" (ubyr).
If we look at the the historic etymology of the term we know of as Upir it clearly goes threw several transitions and cultures prior to is popularization in Eastern Europe... which occurred after Austria gained control of northern Serbia with the Treaty of Passarowitz in 1718. Officials noted the local practice of exhuming bodies and "killing vampires". These reports, prepared between 1725 and 1732, received widespread publicity and is among the first written mentions of the word Vampire. But the idea of the vampire clearly is in use long before the word is popular.
Futher more the fact that the English term was derived (possibly via French vampyre) from the German Vampir in the early 18th century from Serbian, when Arnold Paole, a purported vampire in Serbia was described during the time Serbia was incorporated into the Austrian Empire does not mean that the vampire as a humanoid creature didn't exsist prior to then either. In fact the Slavic rendistion is a very small accounting of the vampire folklore as a whole.

Tracing the word itself is extremely difficult which is why we use the Slavic version as the corner stone, but that doesn't mean that the hunt ends there... Well it seem to end there for some anayway. But the two current lineages that come from the ideology we know today as vampire can be traced back much farther if we search for the idea of the vampire in connection with the terms. If we look for the attributes themselves what we see with the lore it's self is very distinctive and tracable. Like those of a dead corpse reanimating to drink the blood or life energy of the living, fangs, and blood drinking. These "traits" are mainly tracked from the north outward via Mongolian Russia. These folklores can then be loosely traced back to China and the legends of Jiang Shi, (Geongsi) in Cantonese, (Cuong) in Vietnamese, (Gangshi) in Korean and (Kyonshi) in Japanese. The characteristics of all are extremely close.

If we trace the lore to the south we see the other common traits of vampire folklore... Like the ability to seduce the opposite sex, night time visitations or creatures of the night, traveling in mist form or as an animal like the wolf or bat. There is also the idea of being in league with demons or witches due to being able to visit someone in their dreams, spirit or astral form. If we trace the similarities here unlike the northern route, we can see a clear genealogy all the way threw written history.
The Persians were one of the first civilizations to have tales of blood-drinking demons or creatures attempting to drink blood from men, which were depicted on excavated pottery shards in Iraq.
In India, for example, tales of ghoul-like beings that inhabit corpses, have been compiled in the Baital Pacisi; a prominent story in the Kathasaritsagara tells of King Vikramaditya and his nightly quests to capture an elusive one, Pisaca. The Pisaca are the returned spirits who bear vampiric attributes.
Ancient Babylonian and Assyrian tales have the mythical Lilitu. Synonymous with, and many believe this to be the very story which gave rise to Lilith and her daughters the Lilu from Hebrew demonology. Lilitu was considered a demon and was often depicted as subsisting on the blood. This story is also connected to the Estries, female shape changing, blood drinking demons, who were said to roam the night among the population, seeking victims. According to Sefer Hasidim, Estries were creatures created in the twilight hours before God rested. An injured Estrie could be healed by eating bread and salt given her by her attacker... if it was not given salt would kill the estrie. Many scholars believe this to be the root for the idea that a vampire must be invited into your home.
The current data shows that the Esrie is possibly the root for the ancient Greek and Roman mythology of the Empusae also known as the Lamia. The lima is thought to be a crossing of lore between the Esrie and the Lilitu or Lilith. According to Zohar and the Alphabet of Ben Sira, Lilith was Adam's first wife who later became a Succubus. The Incubus and the Succubus legends give rise to the idea of the spirit or demi god who came to sleep with men and woman to steal their life force. Many people hold a modern view which has Lilith as the very first vampire do to this folklore.

This information is not hard to find for anyone wanting more truth about the history of vampirism than the Medieval European folklore. But anyone who knows this much about the vampire lore will tell you that the one common thread in all the folklore through out the whole genre is the idea of removing spiritual energy from another human being... that is Vampirism whether you like it or not!! The common thread here is that blood is not what is being taken, it is life force or energy.

I have shared with you parts of my history and what I've done in this area, It's not a game or a hobby... it's not even my life s t y l e... it's my life period. (sorry but VR seems to have trouble with that word)
I have done a lot of work in this area and many of the people I work with are not internet trolls with cool or interesting and informative profiles, or people looking for disciples because they want to have their own little cult... but they are true academic specialists.
Specialists like John Edger Browning, who is a Ph.D. and an Arthur A. Schomburg Fellowship partner at the University at Buffalo's Transnational Studies Department. He has done field work all over the world and only recently decided to move to Buffalo from New Orleans to work on a clinical study with ladyKem and myself on the true nature of vampirism.
There is also Dr. Benita Blessing, who is a professor at the University of Ohio. She is an expert in European history and studies vampire literature, subculture, and there themes throughout the genre... not just the Slavic stuff.
They are both very talented and regard their work in the field as a serious academic study.
So you can believe what ever you want to about what a vampire is or isn't... whats new age and old school, but don't say I didn't try to inform you folks. Everyone says they want proof but when you try to talk with them they don't respond or they simply move on to the next thread.
Hell a few months ago I even said that I would mentor anyone who wanted to find out the truth. I would give them access to these types of people, those doing cutting edge research and access to everything I have ever learn about Vampirism all you had to do was walk the path...

Not one person on VR took me up on that offer... Not one!!

I obviously can't post everything on the internet and if your not willing to even listen to what I do present here then I'm not really sure what more one man can do than that??

We listened as I have already said numerous times now, you have not provided proof nor seem to be willing to, instead you are getting defensive. You have no need to be. We are not mocking you, we have no intention of insulting you but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If I was in your shoes, I would not hesitate to prove my claims (though I would not have revealed myself in the first place) I would make a video with a fully energized animal shown which I would suck the life out of and I would do it a few more times with proper controls in place to show that no cheating happened.

I noticed you have not answered the two questions I asked either.

1. Would you ask for proof if I claimed I could use telekinesis to catch you after getting you to jump of a cliff or would you just jump without asking?

2. Why call yourselves vampires? why not a succubus or energy drainers, siphons or sappers?
Vampire is a word that will always draw attention to it, you must realize that.



Definitions of Vampirism:
vam·pir·ism
/ˈvampīˌrizəm/
Noun
The action or practices of a vampire.
1. Belief in vampires.
2. The behavior of a vampire.

vampirism [ˈvæmpaɪəˌrɪzəm]
n
1. (Spirituality, New Age, Astrology & Self-help / Alternative Belief Systems) belief in the existence of vampires
2. (Myth & Legend / European Myth & Legend) the actions of vampires; bloodsucking.
3. the act of preying upon or exploiting others.

vam·pir·ism [vam-pahyuh r-iz-uh m, -puh-riz-] Show IPA
noun
1.
belief in the existence of vampires.
2.
the acts or practices of vampires.
3.
unscrupulous exploitation, ruin, or degradation of others.
Origin:
1785–95; vampire + -ism.

1. A reanimated corpse that is believed to rise from the grave at night to suck the blood of sleeping people.
2. A person, such as an extortionist, who preys upon others.
3. A vampire bat.

1. belief in the existence of vampires.
2. the actions of vampires; bloodsucking.
3. the act of preying upon or exploiting others.

Vampire [ˈvӕmpaiə]
A dead person who is imagined to rise from the grave at night and suck the blood of sleeping people.

Obviously the definitions above are based on the folklore of the ocd vamps.


Wikipedia links for modern vampirism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychic_vampire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire_lifestyle


Medical Definition of VAMPIRISM

: a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the drawing of blood

Medical Vampire syndrome (information from medical) dictionary:

Vampire Syndrome
A term that has been applied to a broad array of conditions and situations that the original authors of various reports linked to some aspect of mythical blood-sucking human vampires, or the fictional Count Dracula
Lab medicine Anaemia of investigation, iatrogenic anaemia, nosocomial anaemia, vampirism A fanciful and completely unnecessary synonym for hypochromic anaemia resulting from multiple phlebotomies, which is especially common in ITU/ICU patients
Anaemia of investigation can be reduced in frequency and severity by using paediatric—2.5–3.0 mL—instead of adult sized—4.5–10 mL—blood collection tubes
Medspeak A term coined in 1995 referring to the decrease of serum proteins—hypoalbuminemia and lipids-hypocholesterolemia—which was linked to sufferers’ frequent sale of plasma
Medical history Porphyria has been proposed as an explanation for the vampire legend, based on certain real or perceived similarities between the two. The similarities between porphyria and vampire syndrome include (1) photosensitivity/sensitivity to the sunlight, resulting in skin pallor in both; (2) congenital erythropoietic porphyria is characterised by very high levels of red-brown or burgundy-red porphyrin pigments with an affinity for calcium phosphate, resulting in incorporation into the teeth during odontogenesis. Permanent teeth range from pink to rare cases of red-brown or purple; (3) madness, sober moods and depression; (4) its occurrence in royals—e.g., Mary Queen of Scots, her father, James V—and, farther east and more linked to the legend, its occurrence in Vlad III the Impaler, aka Prince of Wallachia, aka Dracula; the alleged occurrence of porphyria in George III is far from proven. Systemic lupus has some vampire features, but is not traditionally linked to the vampire myth
Psychiatry Clinical vampirism A deviant behaviour in which blood is ingested, variably accompanied by necrophilia, often in a background of schizophrenia, psychosis, sadomasochism, cultism—e.g., voodoo rituals, cannibalism, fetishism or drug intoxication. See Necrophilia
Psychology Psychic vampire A morose person who, Dracula-like, sucks the life out of others because of his/her negative attitudes. They are gloomy, self-centred and can’t be helped
Sexual health A term of art referring to what some regard as a myth of male child sexual assault, i.e, that boys who are sexually abused, like the victims of Count Dracula, will go on to bite—i.e., sexually abuse—others.

Another:
The practice of drinking blood Clinical medicine A quasi-facetious term for excessive blood tests, which causes iatrogenic anemia. See Anemia of investigation Psychiatry A deviant behavior in which blood is ingested, variably accompanied by necrophilia, often in a background of schizophrenia, psychosis, sadomasochism, cult–eg, voodoo rituals, cannibalism, fetishism or drug intoxication.


As you see, most of the definitions of vampirism say "bloodsucking" not psychic energy which probably only came about in the 1900s and according to upir, vampires did not drink blood or energy, so not to jump to conclusions but its seem the vampire idea that your coven took or is based on knowingly or not, is not the original one but the one based of the folklore from which the modern fictional vampires eventually evolved from.

I don't know why you are letting this bother you so much, we have all said that you are allowed to believe what you want and I have also said its not about who is right and who is wrong but whether you can prove yourself, little to no one who has claimed to be a vampire has proved it yet.
You seem to be perceiving our questioning as an attack, which you are mistaken. If we automatically believed in what everyone told us that what would that make us?

You must respect and acknowledge that we have our own minds and views and we have no obligation to believe you at your word, you want us to believe you? learn from you? show us then and prove it. I would expect the same questioning from you (all of you) if I made such a claim.

You said no one took you up on that offer, well offer it to us now. No time like the present.

Also if you can, show us the links and messages of when you gave that offer.

From evidences that I have come across,at this point in time,I feel that psy vampires are simply very empathetic people and are very practiced at entraining into other people's emotions.

I really do hope that science can and will find something solid on vampirism.So Sev, I certainly wish you the best in all of the research you and your group are doing.

You are correct, Sev, that the information is not hard to find if one seeks to find it. And when one does, one finds the term Vampire is not ancient, at all. It began with the term Upir/Upyr, originating in western Russia and eastern Slavic lands in or about 900-1000 CE (that's a full millennia after the time of Jesus). From there, the term spread west, changing linguistically as it went. Yet still, the term meant and described the same type of being. Then with the advent of Christianity, a slow process of scapegoating occurred.

While originally worshiped throughout the area, thus indicating they were revered and highly esteemed (see "Russian Primary Chronicle")...and absolutely no blood drinking reported. Yet within a few hundred years of Christian domination, they were vilified and literally demonized. Only then were ancient demonizations of leaving the grave pronounced upon them, as well. By the time Western Europeans began to truly infiltrate the area in the early 1700s, do we find the sensationalism of blood-drinking Undead

continuing on...

It was during this early 18th-Century Eastern-to-Western metamorphosis phase that the Westernized term "Vampire" as well as its equally unique Westernized definition as the blood-sucking "Undead" were both born. Prior to this... no such existed.

My profile explains this in some depth and provides hyperlinks to the resources documenting same. And those resources, as anyone will find, are from either primary sources or from actual doctorate-level experts in Slavic history and/or Vampirology.

The notion of the Western term, Vampire, or the Western definition of same somehow being ancient... is absolutely false.

There can be no doubt of this once the history of the term and its changing definitions over time as the term has been continually reinvented in the West are examined. Everything from the 18th-Century notion of blood-drinking, to the far-later 20th-Century Hollywood additional re-inventions of them having fangs, intolerance to sunlight, and... later still... having no reflection in mirrors, and most recently the late-20th-Century-early-21st-Century traits of having sparkly skin in sunlight and, later still, snap-down fangs ... have further fictionally re-invented the Vampire into something entirely alien and unknown to the actual Slavs who intimately knew and revered this very real race of beings.

So why is it you, Sev, ... and so many others... believe the Vampire is of ancient origin? Simple! You look at the modern, pop-culture, Hollywood bastardization version of the Vampire and then look into ancient history trying to find anything even remotely matching it !!!

This is as ridiculous and an exercise in futility as trying to find the origin of the Santa Claus legends by seeking throughout ancient history someone similar to a jolly old White guy wearing a red suit, living at the North Pole, riding a sleigh driven by 8 flying reindeer and saying "Ho ho ho" to everything. And while you might find some ancient parallels on one or another of these traits, yet if this is your definition of Santa Claus ... then you are NEVER going to even come close to finding Santa's actual historical origin: Saint Nicholas, a 4th Century Greek bishop!

Same with the Vampire, who... ironically... has as his earliest actual known personage, "Father Vampire Insatiable" (Popa Upir Likhyj), the 11th Century Eastern Orthodox Christian Priest who was a highly educated scholar and translator of ancient texts in the personal employ of Prince Yaroslav (son of Yaroslav the Great).

It's a possibility. In my own opinion, I don't know why the whole "dark and dreary" thing always needs to correspond with vampires. I don't really think there is an excuse for depression but I don't think people should be all blah to be a vampire, either. I find myself to be a cheery vampire but I'm not the cheeriest person out there lol

Upir,

You're not even being remotely consistent... or fair. So much so that I'm starting to think someone hacked your profile.
You have repeatedly stated that the only true version of the vampire is the Slavic version, i.e. Upir Likhyj... That is the Slavic, popularized, undead version.
Yet you post this:

It was during this early 18th-Century Eastern-to-Western metamorphosis phase that the Westernized term "Vampire" as well as its equally unique Westernized definition as the blood-sucking "Undead" were both born. Prior to this... no such existed.

To say that the idea of the vampire as "the blood drinking undead" only came into being in the early 18th century and no such incantation existed before then is misleading at best. History clearly shows that this "metamorphosis" (as you call it) was the result of Austria gained control of northern Serbia in 1718. That is when Austrian Officials noted the local tradition of exhuming bodies and "killing vampires". These reports were prepared between 1725 and 1732, and received widespread publicity. We know this is among the first written mentions of the word Vampire/Vampyre... That is historical fact!!
Well, Logically they couldn't have documented something that was a tradition if the "practice" wasn't being done before they got there, further more "traditions" don't usually start over night... other wise it wouldn't be called a tradition. Which means the region had a belief in the creature we call Vampire for a very long time prior to the 18th century.

Secondly, To say that a creature like the vampire can't exist because the term vampire was not present before a certain date is just stupid!! That's like saying a cave man couldn't have had fire cause the word fire wasn't used until thousands of years later... or that because called it "ugh" instead of "fire" that the are two seperate things. If you look at the traits of fire now and the traits of fire 10,000 years ago you still have fire despite the term being used. The same is true for Vampirism in that if you know and understand the real traits and not those of a fat white guy yelling ho,ho,ho, then you will see documented cases of vampirism through out history. If you go looking for a undead blood sucker as the true definition of vampire then you are correct you won't find it because that image is unacurate.
Further more, you also state yourself that the term Upir was first documented 800 earlier in 1047??
If we follow this ideological path, then the vampire is little more than a misunderstood Russian priest.
An Idea for which I know you personally don't subscribe to being the truth.

Lastly, The belief for which I know you do hold to be as a possible origin for the vampire myth lies within the Nefilim. Which is in ancient lore involving fallen angels. Yet here again we have an inconsistency... you state that there is no ancient vampire belief, and any such connection people attempt to make is false and yet you go into great length to credit this theory.
Although admittedly, Godly Angelic beings who sexually feast on mankind isn't very scientific it does hold some provable merit when one looks past the surface and into the material that is presented.
In fact I hold this belief to be a possible source myself... hence my avatar.
In the end the vampire is either restricted to European Folklore or it is something more.
I'm not sure what your goal is here Upir, but as I have stated many times in this thread... I'm stunned and saddened by some of these postings. I thought I understood you better than what I've seen here.

MordrakusxMortalitas

First off, "sucking the life out of an animal" and video taping it isn't necessary... these types of tests have been done already, many times over.
Those experiment and all of the test subject in them have agreed that they felt weaker or less active afterwards... all under scientific controlled environments. The data had no discernible source beyond the test subjects own personal feelings and was quickly dismissed as a placebo effect.

Secondly, if you had been listening, you would have heard that what is being taken is Spiritual energy... If you have a test which can measure this kind of energy then I will be happen to let you test me.

Third,
"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"...

Oh how you guys love that Carl Sagan quote. lol
You use it like it was the holy grail, throwing it up in peoples faces any time you want to challenge someone. So if it's a challenge then lets talk about good old Carl and the universe he loved!!
Did you know Carl sagan also believed beyond the shadow of a doubt that life existed elsewhere in the universe, He was also quoted as saying:
“The universe is a pretty big place. If it's just us, seems like an awful waste of space.”

Someone who made a statement like thee "extraordinary evidence" quote surely has mountains of proof to back up such a claim. So where is the proof which supports the logic behind his believe in alien life... Where's the Video??
If we take his quote as it is written, then the reasoning behind his belief is based on the size of the universe and the mathematical numbers involved.
Ok, so I tell you what if his belief lies within the mathematics and we are going to be scientific about our approach to the size of the universe then show me the math which proves the universe was created by an intelligent design - a.k.a. God.

Don't have any??

Ok then lets do the math...
Fact:
If the expansion rate of the early universe was just a trillionth of one percent higher than it was, the universe would have expanded too rapidly for solid matter to form. If the expansion rate had been just a trillionth of a percent less than it was, the universe would have collapsed back in on itself very quickly. In either case there would be no stars, no planets and no life.
But supposing it did result purely by chance, it certainly wouldn't’t have been spot on the first time, in which case we can assume that the universe kept trying again and again until it reached perfect balance. Here we have a situation whereby trillions and trillions of attempts would have needed to get it right. Unless the universe could some how learn from its mistakes – then it would be able to achieve success much more quickly and easily. This scenario suggests that the universe must either be self-consciousness or have been designed by some intelligence that exists beyond the universe.

Fact:
The eminent mathematical physicist Sir Roger Penrose calculated the chances of a life-supporting universe happening by chance to be 1 in 1010^123.
Now Let me try to put that number into perspective:
1010^3 is a 1 followed by a thousand zeros,
1010^6 is a 1 followed by a million zeros and
1010^9 is a 1 followed by billion zeros.
These numbers are practically impossible to imagine, but 1010^123 is so big that it is totally inconceivable to the human mind and computers even have a hard time calculating it.

Fact:
So with odds of only 1 in 1010^123 it can be said with absolute mathematical certainty that a life-supporting universe could never have happen by chance.

There I just proved to you that there is a God.

Don't believe in a God yet MordrakusxMortalitas??

Well Carl Sagan did...

"Science is not only compatible with spirituality; it is a profound source of spirituality."
"The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition... Discovery happens at our creator's pace."

Carl Sagan understood that proof of anything rests in the eyes of those looking at it, and that people will see what they want to see based on what they choose to see regardless of the level of proof you present.
You either understand or you do not... Carl was enlightened enough to know this.

MordrakusxMortalitas, everything I have stated up to this point has been an attempt to allow you to see what I see.... not to agree with me line for line on it but to simply understand.
If you don't wish to see it - then that is the choice you have make and no amount of evidence will change that.

"First off, "sucking the life out of an animal" and video taping it isn't necessary... these types of tests have been done already, many times over.
Those experiment and all of the test subject in them have agreed that they felt weaker or less active afterwards... all under scientific controlled environments. The data had no discernible source beyond the test subjects own personal feelings and was quickly dismissed as a placebo effect."

Then you should not mind doing it for us on video...with an animal, why so reluctant?
I would do it in a heartbeat if I was in your shoes.


Also one does not have to be a psychic/spirit sapper to make someone feel weak or depressed, if you're in a room with a boring person then chances are you are going to be bored to tears yourself.
If you're in a room with a goth who is constantly saying how life sucks etc then you are likely to be depressed just by listening to it all. Humans are animals and like their instinctual counterparts, they can detect mood changes and it can effect them. A dog will sense if its alpha is angry and will be submissive and scared as a result.


No, you have not been posting stuff to allow us to see, you have simply been on the defensive and saying how saddened you when you have no good reason to be because if you're telling the truth or at least can prove your claims then you have nothing to worry about then do you?

please provide info and demonstrations of your claims. simple really, an animal will do as they cannot be paid to lie.
Instead of talking about origins and who is wrong or right, tell us everything about your "kind" and then show us. give us that offer that you say you have given us before.


The only "god" for lack of a better word I believe in is me. (bit of a Mal-Narcissistic and I am the only boss of me.) I am open minded but I am not and never will be, a stupid sheep.

Also you did not answer the questions again. I will be repeating this until it is answered one way or the other.

As I said before, claim to be more than human....prepare to be questioned. I would absolutely expect the same from you if I said I could do preternatural things. its not personal and you know it.

Example:
If I said I was a 3977 year old perpetually hungry entity that lived through the bronze age, would you believe it? only an idiot would.
Though that was too obvious, so maybe even an fool would not take believe that.
So lets be more subtle, say I claimed to be an energy "vampire" similar to or like you and have drained many people, would you automatically believe that or would you question it and ask for proof?

The best C.O.A would be the latter obviously.


No idea why you are surprised and shocked really, you have been here for four years same as me, so you should be used to this by now. We have no beef with you sev, I don't know about the others but my questioning is just whether or not you can prove your claims and not if its true or false. its simply a "put up or shut up" situation, either prove it or keep your claims to yourself.

Also to explain one of your excuses from a few posts back about "why people come here then if there is no vampires", well the reason people come to vr, is not just about vampires ("real" or fictional) some come for knowledge of the occult, others because they are goths/emos and others to find like-minded individuals with the same goals. My reasons are the latter and more. For those who came here for the "real" vampires, they would (if they are smart) question any one claiming to be so just like we are doing.
Also this site was just a vampire material/media archive first.

Fire is not a good element to compare vampirism with, first off, fire can be proved to exist. psychic/spiritual vampires? not so much. Still waiting on that video and info.

Depression depending if its the manic kind or not would not really be mistaken for a vampire awakening unless its what that person believes. Not to be stereotypical here but if one wants to know more about depression from a personal view just ask one of the goths on this site or you know, a medical website which would be better. Vampire awakenings from what I know, is when realizes what they are, well if these "vampires" are slightly better than humans then I have no idea why it would be depressing, unless of course they expected fangs to sprout and their eyes to red.

Sev -- You're not even being remotely consistent... or fair. So much so that I'm starting to think someone hacked your profile.

To say that the idea of the vampire as "the blood drinking undead" only came into being in the early 18th century and no such incantation existed before then is misleading at best. History clearly shows that this "metamorphosis" (as you call it) was the result of Austria gained control of northern Serbia in 1718. That is when Austrian Officials noted the local tradition of exhuming bodies and "killing vampires". These reports were prepared between 1725 and 1732, and received widespread publicity. We know this is among the first written mentions of the word Vampire/Vampyre... That is historical fact!!

"Vukanovic, whose Serbian Gypsy vampire beliefs is one of the most detailed studies that we have, never once mentions blood-sucking. This supposed trait seems to be merely a folkloric means of accounting for two things: unexplained deaths and the appearance of blood on the mouth of a corpse."
(Vampires, Burial, and Death: Folklore and Reality, pg. 100)
- Dr. Paul Barber

As for your fire definition analogy, Sev, this falls flat on its face the second one considers it.

Fire has always been defined as it is worldwide for all the hundreds of millennia since its discovery. There is nothing the least mythological or regional about fire. And if anyone doubts what fire is... one has only to re-create it so as to study its components.

Can the same be said of the Vampire?


That's why my Santa Claus analogy is a far better analogy and reflects far more accurately the cultural context changes to definition of this term that have occurred down through the ages. Yet you ignored this entirely, didn't you? Why is that?


And finally, ... yes, the true Vampire, the Vampire by my definition, as a literal bloodline descendant of the equally scapegoated "Fallen Angels" (their true name, by which they were worshiped and revered... as also were the Slavic Upyri [Slavic word origin of "Vampires"] was the "Sons of God") were truly most ancient! However... that definition is NOT your definition, now is it, Sev? Your definition of "Vampire"... which is the bastardized Western fictional definition, was invented in the early 18th Century (1700-1749 CE, just in case you weren't paying attention earlier). And that definition is, of course, not at all ancient.

In actual Central and Eastern European lands (the Slavic homelands of the actual historical Vampire) and also in Turkey and western Russia, the actual Vampire was known for only two things:

a. His "insatiable sexuality" (i.e., natural multiorgasmic capacity... a trait he shares fully and equally with females, those later falsely called his "victims"); and,

b. Being scapegoated as the one to blame for any unexplained calamity (e.g., unexplained crop failure, unexplained fire, unexplained act of vandalism, unexplained death of either animal or Human).

And both of these universal Vampire traits mirror exactly what was said of the "Fallen Angels" and, more specifically, their descendants. The first trait ("insatiable sexuality") is the first to have been documented and, thus, the likeliest actual Truth regarding them. The second... the scapegoating process... is quite obviously the result of deliberate vilification and demonization by less sensually capable jealous men (hence, also, why the Old Testament likewise vilified women for possessing this same "insatiable" trait, as found implied in the "Adam and Eve" story and women's continual portrayal ever since by Abrahamic religion as being overly sensual and, thus, devilish and disobedient to God, and its general vilification of sexuality, also).

And from there, hundreds of years later both with the "Fallen Angel" descendants and with the later Westernized definition of Vampires, the ultimate vilification began of turning them into blood (and flesh)-eating monsters. This happened both to the "Fallen Angel" descendants in the Books of Enoch, Jubilees, etc. (which were written over a millennia after these same descendants were being praised in the Book of Genesis as heroes, being "mighty men as of old, men of renown" [ch. 6:1-4] ) and then later to the Vampires, who were originally worshiped and revered by the Slavs... until they were likewise villified hundreds of years later for blood-drinking, too, despite no actual evidence of this.

The historical parallels are astounding and undeniable when fully explored.

I agree, and I'm vampire because I studied and understand the philosophy, and not as a means to get back at societe and peoeple. There are too many people on these social networks for purely shock value

And it falls flat because then no one takes them seriously, I have read too many profiles that say "I'm 1,000 years old" etc.

If an animal or human is deficient in some way and NEEDS a certain substance or "energy" to function even normally,other than what is required for the species to survive,then there is no way it can be any kind of "super" anything.


I think where we have it all wrong ,is in the definition .

Either way,vampires ARE human and are subject to ailments just as humans are..including depression.

Well there are:

Sang vamps. Blood drinkers who believe they have a real need to drink blood. There are medical conditions for this of course.

Psychic vamps. Energy suckers.

Living vamps. Vampires that do not feed on energy or blood, but use vampirism as a means to achieve spiritual evolution. Ordo Strigoi Vii are connected to these.

Transcendental Vamps. These ones believe they have immortal souls which they use to possess other souls to achieve their immortality.

They all have many things in common, they like to claim to be vampires, they are very mortal and have provided little to no proof that they are any more special than normal humans.

Upir:

The early 1700s is the early 18th Century... Yes!!
And again, if you have a report being made in 1725 about a tradition involving vampires then the vampires themselves would need to have been in the region a lot sooner that these first written records.
Other wise there's nothing for the officials to report about!!
You can't have a report written in 1725 about legends involving vampires if the just showed up.

I mean seriously Upir, how can someone like yourself who uses the subtly of linguistics to put together and support a theory on Slavic vampires have the inability to look at words like "legends" and "traditions" and some how miss the fact that the very creature they are describing must date back much farther than the time of the reports themselves??


---------------------------------------------------------------------

MordrakusxMortalitas:

As expected you're Not Listening, and the evidence is in your response.
Your asking me to demonstrate something that is the Hollywood version of the vampire and you know it.
I never claimed to be a million years old, or superhuman, nor did I claim to be any other mystical non-human. So egging me on by saying "why won't you do it, huh??" is an attempt to discredit me by throwing down a challenge you know can not be done. The notion of what you are asking is as absurd as it is theatrical.

A.) It clear to most people that we don't "drain" people. The idea that you could drain someone of anything even blood is just stupid. The human body has 5 quarts of blood in it, the human stomach can't hold more than 3 before it would rupture. When it comes to energy, the same would be true, there is only so much one can draw and it's not a lot.

B.) Even if I could "drain" someone in the manner you requested of all their blood or energy, you expect me to film myself Murdering a person or some poor helpless animal to prove something for you?? Again, That's just Stupid!!

C.) The tests I mentioned were done on people... because we "draw" energy not "drain" it and the test subjects had no idea what they were being tested for outside of the knowledge that human contact would take place in some form. There was no talking or chatting, just some form of touch. They were then asked a series of question of which the target questions where mixed in.

D.) I did answer you question!! As I said if you have a test that can measure the level of spiritual energy in someone's body I would be happy to let you test me. Unfortunately for now the test subjects feed back is the only way to measure the effects that are taking place. Again That's why people were used... How is an animal suppose to explain to the researcher how it's feeling?? More stupidity!!

E.) These were real scientific test, done by professionals in a controlled environment, not three people lock in a room with a whiny emo kid... as you seem to suggest as the source for how and why people can have a "mood change." More absurd theatrics on your part.

I have been on Vampire Rave for more the 4 years now and I have posted in countless forum threads, have discussed many of the concepts and ideas for which I believe vampirism to be... in full. I have gone into great length about the physics of energy exchange, broken down and explained the process and given example of it. I have use as much of a scientific approach to what I post as I can and all of this is information is still here. Sorry you missed it... but I'm not going to have the same old debates and rehash the same examples over and over again or repost 4 years worth of context every time somebody new decides they want me to jump threw a hoop for them...
And since none of the people in this particular forum thread (who have read what I've shared) are willing to speak up on my behalf, your only other choice is to try searching the archived threads.

"MordrakusxMortalitas:

As expected you're Not Listening, and the evidence is in your response.
Your asking me to demonstrate something that is the Hollywood version of the vampire and you know it.
I never claimed to be a million years old, or superhuman, nor did I claim to be any other mystical non-human. So egging me on by saying "why won't you do it, huh??" is an attempt to discredit me by throwing down a challenge you know can not be done. The notion of what you are asking is as absurd as it is theatrical."

Actually my friend, it is you who is not listening, I never said you were superhuman or million years old, I was making an example of someone making common claims, you gave pretty much the same response when I was talking about cults that are frauds, you made it seem I was talking about you and your coven. Also, I never said you could drink blood. So pay attention and calm down. I am asking you to demonstrate your claims, no one else's.


"A.) It clear to most people that we don't "drain" people. The idea that you could drain someone of anything even blood is just stupid. The human body has 5 quarts of blood in it, the human stomach can't hold more than 3 before it would rupture. When it comes to energy, the same would be true, there is only so much one can draw and it's not a lot."

No one here said that you claimed you could drain blood.

"B.) Even if I could "drain" someone in the manner you requested of all their blood or energy, you expect me to film myself Murdering a person or some poor helpless animal to prove something for you?? Again, That's just Stupid!!"

Did not say you had to kill anything or anyone Sev. If you can drain or draw out psychic or spiritual energy then just drain it to the point of unconsciousness.


"C.) The tests I mentioned were done on people... because we "draw" energy not "drain" it and the test subjects had no idea what they were being tested for outside of the knowledge that human contact would take place in some form. There was no talking or chatting, just some form of touch. They were then asked a series of question of which the target questions where mixed in. "

Then do it for us on camera, you seem to be very reluctant. I would not be.


"D.) I did answer you question!! As I said if you have a test that can measure the level of spiritual energy in someone's body I would be happy to let you test me. Unfortunately for now the test subjects feed back is the only way to measure the effects that are taking place. Again That's why people were used... How is an animal suppose to explain to the researcher how it's feeling?? More stupidity!!"

Ah ah ah, watch that anger. No you did not answer my questions. the two questions are about why you call yourselves vampires if its not for attention, and the other is would ask for proof if someone made a claim to have TK.
Animals cannot tell a lie, so they are better to use, you find out the effect by watch them.


"E.) These were real scientific test, done by professionals in a controlled environment, not three people lock in a room with a whiny emo kid... as you seem to suggest as the source for how and why people can have a "mood change." More absurd theatrics on your part."

Hmm interesting, I do not recall saying that there were three people locked in a room, someone is trying to put words in my mouth, not a good thing to do.
Your anger and your attempts to put words in my mouth is a sign that you should probably walk away now, this debate is obviously too much for you. Either post with a calm mind and disposition or not at all.

"I have been on Vampire Rave for more the 4 years now and I have posted in countless forum threads, have discussed many of the concepts and ideas for which I believe vampirism to be... in full. I have gone into great length about the physics of energy exchange, broken down and explained the process and given example of it. I have use as much of a scientific approach to what I post as I can and all of this is information is still here. Sorry you missed it... but I'm not going to have the same old debates and rehash the same examples over and over again or repost 4 years worth of context every time somebody new decides they want me to jump threw a hoop for them...
And since none of the people in this particular forum thread (who have read what I've shared) are willing to speak up on my behalf, your only other choice is to try searching the archived threads."

I am not new, I have been here for as long as you have and if what you say there is true then why not explain it again? If you know what to say, then just say it or just copy/paste your old stuff. As the one trying to convince us, its your job to do the digging. Also its not countless either, we both know there is a post number underneath your avatar so don't exaggerate. If I had to combine all my profile posts, it would likely be well over 10,000 but I don't post for the count, I only post when a thread interests me. Also a high post count does not mean you can get away with explaining things.

Also I am going to say it again as I have near infinite patience, If you have been here for more than four years then you should be used to this, don't like it, don't say anything to provoke the question simple really.

You do know no one here is forcing you to keep posting here, if you dislike the questioning so much and you are getting too angry, then avoid posting in this subject. All we are doing is questioning you. Nothing insulting or offensive about that at all, it happens to nearly everyone here who makes claims of being different to normal people in one way or another.

Your mistake is that you are automatically assuming that we are doubting or outright calling you false by simply questioning you, when in fact, we just want explanations and perhaps proof of it from you, I am aware of certain groups that call themselves vampires but do not practice any blood or energy draining, nor are they true vampire lifestylers, they just adopt a predatory mindset to help improve themselves, spiritualism is involved though every member can choose which path to follow, its about shaking off the shackles of what humans were indoctrinated with by society and going their own way in life.

Sev... This becomes somewhat tiresome. Of course vampires were around prior to 1725. I have repeatedly stated they have been reported in Slavic lands since at lest the 11th Century (700 years before the 18th Century). And no reports of blood drinking in all that time.

And when finally reports of blood drinking begin, it's not from the Slavs but, instead and as I have stated all along, from Western sources (the Austrians, according to you) about the Serbs. Yet, as Dr. Barber points out, the Serbs, themselves, whose vampire accounts are the most detailed we have, never once mention blood drinking.

The actual Slavic Vampire... from whence all later Vampires and takes regarding them derive... did not drink blood nor "feed" off psy energy (a far later Western fictional invention). That is what actual history indisputably reveals ...

... much to the dismay of those like you, Sev.

MordrakusxMortalitas:

Also I am going to say it again as I have near infinite patience, If you have been here for more than four years then you should be used to this, don't like it, don't say anything to provoke the question simple really.

You do know no one here is forcing you to keep posting here, if you dislike the questioning so much and you are getting too angry, then avoid posting in this subject. All we are doing is questioning you. Nothing insulting or offensive about that at all, it happens to nearly everyone here who makes claims of being different to normal people in one way or another.

Occeanne, Dabbler... are you listening??
There is your answer!!
You ask all the time why people like me won't come forward and share our ideology and ways, why we are so reluctant to provide an information... this gentlemen is the reason why.
Here we have a member who claims to want the truth, says he believe there is more out there than what we have come to know but when you look at his posts and then his profile you find that he is little more than a self admitted anarchist who gets off on causing others to fight, argue and flame each other for his own enjoyment.

Your theatrics may cause other to jump on the bash bandwagon as a source of entertainment but our conversation will be ending here. I'm not going to empower you, especially now that I know you're little more than a power hungry thug who is exactly the type of guy we were discussing above, the type that would gladly form a cult just for the sake of having his own followers.
One look at your profile reveals all of who and what you are. Your intentions are clearly stated by you... And you say I'm silly for exposing what I claim to be. I doubt anyone who looks at your profile could take anything you say seriously from this point forward.

I know I sure won't.

"You ask all the time why people like me won't come forward and share our ideology and ways, why we are so reluctant to provide an information... this gentlemen is the reason why.
Here we have a member who claims to want the truth, says "he believe there is more out there than what we have come to know but when you look at his posts and then his profile you find that he is little more than a self admitted anarchist who gets off on causing others to fight, argue and flame each other for his own enjoyment.

Your theatrics may cause other to jump on the bash bandwagon as a source of entertainment but our conversation will be ending here. I'm not going to empower you, especially now that I know you're little more than a power hungry thug who is exactly the type of guy we were discussing above, the type that would gladly form a cult just for the sake of having his own followers.
One look at your profile reveals all of who and what you are. Your intentions are clearly stated by you... And you say I'm silly for exposing what I claim to be. I doubt anyone who looks at your profile could take anything you say seriously from this point forward.

I know I sure won't. "

So you have resorted to name calling now eh? and accusing me of purposely causing strife. Not civil at all, I may be an anarchist but when it comes to getting certain goals or staying here for my reasons, I can easily work with and respect the rules. however you haven't since name calling is not something that is allowed in forums if I recall correctly. Show some etiquette and be civil. if you didn't want to answer our questions or explain and show proof, all you ever had to say was "sorry, but I don't feeling answering any questions or explaining," simple really.

I will always be taken more seriously than anyone who calls themselves a vampire because power hungry sociopaths and thugs (as you say) exist.

Of course I am the type to become a leader of a cult and I am very power hungry, I have never denied it, difference is, I would not deceive my members...or ask for payment or claim to be anything more than I am. It would just be a clan of like-minded individuals.

As I said probably for the third time now dear sev. I don't care whether you are right or wrong, I am asking if you could or would be willing to prove it or discuss your beliefs. All you had to say was yes or no. You act like questioning is a form of attack.

Like I said a few posts back, a typical attitude and response from people being questioned about their claims is it to turn the situation around on to their questioner, the situation goes from the "investigation of the claim" to suddenly saying their are being "bullied and victimized" by the questioner. I did tell you not to follow those types of people's footsteps but you went and did it anyway. Shame I had some respect for you.

You are the one doing this to yourself, not us. we only asked for explanations and in my case, I asked if you could prove it. You are now trying to twist the situation to seem like a victim or at least being cornered by a bunch of jackals.

No one here ever forced you to be here, no one asked you to perform miracles. One of us talked about origins, while I asked you to explain your status/group and if you could provide proof.
And you call that flaming and saying that I enjoy it? no Sev, now you are making false accusations, I am still completely calm, neither loving this or hating it. This is just a debate to me, you're the one getting angry and trying to make it heated. I won't let you do that.

I admit, I am a sociopath who loves a fight....but in the real world and not pathetic name calling online. I enjoy bashing people's teeth in, not causing hissy fits online, that is what trolls are for.

p.s you never did answer those very simple questions.
Never post angry sev, as your posts can be negative then.
If this was getting to you, then you should of stopped. I am civil...on here anyway, so I will agree to the ending of this.

No proof or explanations was given. Well all I got to say to this is that you should keep it all to yourself in future. You acted like you were against the world when I have told you dozens of times now, that this happens to nearly everyone who makes such a claim. Four years here Severus, you should know the drill. Good luck with your coven and future posting.


I think I will go back to explaining the groups associated with living vampires.

Ordo Strigi vii was one but there are others, one was called The Black Order Of The Dragon, also known as the order of the black dragon. Before anyone says it, I am not sure if it is the same group Aracon was affiliated with as the symbol she used is not on its website. Her sanctus ordo site is gone anyway. This coven is actually a sub-coven of another, basically they take on a predatory mindset and find ways to improve themselves as well as unlearn any christian indoctrination that they may have. The main group is about self improvements and spiritualism, they use the left hand path. I guess the "awakening" is those that take it all to heart. They seem to welcome everyone, even atheists.

The best bet is to get checked for everything at doctors and then investigate other theories. Many cases it is indeed both.

If you are doubting that you think you are a vampire because you came to the conclusion that you are one only because you are depressed, then yes, it was confused for vampirism. And like some others have said, not everyone that us a vampire is depressed. Not are all vampires Goth (gasp).

And because it was deleted THIS HAS GOTTEN WAAAAAAY OFF TOPIC. It is about depression, not what makes a vampire.

True but the "kind of vampire" is relevant because if people think vampires are super human with extraordinary strength and speed, then it would beg the question why be depressed about it? I sure wouldn't. But this is the real world and there has been lots of "versions" of vampires but they all have something in common....they are completely human and only vampire in lifeforbidden (which some think is gothic and so act as such) and practice vampirism by drinking blood. To those expecting something supernatural or paranormal, then they would likely be disappointed.

I don't think it could be mistaken for depression because it is probably just depression, if you take the average depressed joe who would want to be more than he or she is, then being a vampire would likely be better than being nothing as even if vampirism is just something people adopt, it has a community and so people can find an identity by joining them.
Worst case scenario its just delusion vs depression and sometimes both since a depressed person would fantasize about having a different life, one in which they are superior.

Well also to ponder that we battle depression among other emotions always

Not everyone has depression, it depends on how your life has been.

In my experience awakenings are different for each person..I know for a fact that Males will incur their awakening in their late teens to about early 20's, females however usually do not experience their awakening until about the mid to late 20's. Each experience is different for each person, be it smells, taste, hearing, highenened awareness, empathy...each person does experience one or more of these experiences. The drinkling of blood to me is a fetish...I however do like to bite, but do not drink human blood as it is dangerous in this day and age to do so with so many blood borne diseases. My cravings are held back with the drinking of sweet red wines and eating medium rare steaks. I am more of a Psi vamp than anything. I hope this answers your questions.

Depression is an emotional, and medical condition. The real issue here isn't what's a Mentor verses a Cult or even what a vampire is or isn't. What the real issue is our need to place titles on everything in an attempt to classify things. What ever description you want to use everyone of us is human and being human itself is apparently never enough.

We willing separate ourselves by these titles... gender, race, nationality, even income. We are willing to hurt each other and even kill one another because of our most basic of differences. We even pick and choose what we want to believe in based on certain groups and who's in them. We place our faith and our lives, even blindly sometimes on nothing more than what we need to believe in just to feel comfortable with ourselves. Science and facts rarely play as big of a role in what we except and reject as we like to tell ourselves.
Black people are biologically no different than whites, yet we also know that genetically Blacks, in general are athletically superior to whites and Asians. We call woman the weaker sex yet outside of the physical tasks woman are generally better at most things then men are. We know these things are all around us yet we selectivly and individually choose to either except them or reject them based on our own little group.

Growing up my family told me that I needed to keep who I was a secret. For this reason alone, they were convinced that if the world was to discover that humans beings could be as different internally (on a spiritual level) as we are different externally that we would be rejected. They believed beyond a doubt that our need to group things came from Mans need to place himself above every other living thing on the planet... not just as a race but as individuals too.

They believed that our need to group would see us as dismissed or demonized because that's what humans do to each other... That's our nature.
Now it maybe that I too am simply getting old, but I'm starting to believe they were correct... the world isn't ready for such an Acknowledgment.

I have clinical depression and insomnia. I take meds for both. I don't think it has anything to do with being a "vampire". Just a product of a faulty human body.

On the other hand,I certainly believe that depression can be mistaken for a vampire awakening.

I agree with Dabbler and NikkiAiden; there are plenty of explenations. I know from experience how awful depression can be, and trust me, it gets bad. I've gone through times of depression where I had boughts of absolute rage, and trust me, although it was only twice, blood lust could have easily been right around the corner.

On a semi-random note; all people truly interested in other explenations, try reading a book called Sweet Blood. It's just a short novel, mostly for teens, but it does offer a pretty interesting train of thought. I'd actually like to talk to someone else whose read it and get an opinion. ((Basically it offers that a lot of the older vampire legends come from Untreated Diabetics; hundreds of years ago when no one knew what the deasease was or how to treat it.)) Kind of cheesey but a quick, interesting read that might make you want to put more serious thought into the concept.

Indeed there is plenty of explanations, though someone with fantasies or hope would likely like to think its a vampire awakening. There is actually a medical condition about vampirism and even lycanthropy, its where the patient believes they are supernatural creatures, they are sometimes violent.

in my opinion if someone actually sees awakening as depression there are obviously other problems involved

I must admit I did skim through most of the answers toward the bottom of this thread but I will say I believe that is is a psychological disorder depression can manifest itself in many ways. All of which can explain the delusions that can be associated or attributed to vampirism. My personal belief there for is that all that claim to be vampires most likely have a sense of powerlessness in their life, these people, most have anger issues as well as a result of it, these often manifest in a need to be powerful, dangerous, mysterious in an attempt to stave of would be abusers, and if hurt should not be held accountable for there actions, after all it is in the nature of a vampire to hurt. These manifestations are usually a cry for help, someone that is extremely fragile, whether from, being harmed themselves, or because of and underlying mental defect. That is just a few of my thoughts on the matter.

Well said Agora, however those people are not viewed as a threat but as attention seekers and are never taken seriously.

I am not so certain that is was well said as there are quite a few linguistic mistakes in that composition of the sentence. lol But, yes, attention seekers is another, more commonly used, term for such individuals. It is true that most of them are harmless, because as I said before they feel powerless. Often time the feeling is actually very true. They are powerless in some significant way, as such are harmless. However, that all depends on the length that these people will go to obtain some sort of power or control. This can manifest in sadism. I know what some many be thinking, sexual sadism is fun, lol. It doesn't always manifest itself in a sexual way. If coupled with delusions and a need to prove them to others, and yes even to themselves, they many resort to drastic measures to do so. In those rare cases it can be dangerous. Most of those people that are dangerous however are institutionalized long before the do any real damage. Still, there are some.

I think the internet is a perfect example of what you are talking about Agora.
As far as powerlessness manifesting itself in unsavory ways.
Right here on VR,it is rampant.

Lol I meant well said as in you were accurate in your understanding of them, people who felt powerless when young seek to be powerful one way or another when they grow up, and can be dangerous in some cases.

Feeling powerless growing up and wanting to regain control is sometimes a motive or deep seated desire of some serial killers.

There are positive was in which it can manifest itself too, often the arts or creative writing can be attributed for a need to be in control. Steven king is well know for his God complex, where in his books he is actually a profit, or God like figure. In truth the one with the pen, or brush is effective God. What they make is brought into being. That is also why most of the time you will find that these same people are often very creative, not always good, but very creative.

Yes, I feel that way sometimes, I make my sims starve to death or cause fires and electric shocks, its a good feeling to create something and then have its "fate" in your hands.

That is a little disturbing but I guess it could be worse. lol

Yeah done worse in real life but I use the sims as a substitute. Disturbing but fun. Restraint is an annoying trait of humanity.

An annoying necessity, more like, as we are social creatures.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.