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What does it take to be a human being?

Is it form? if so what about maniquins?

Is it mental faculties? if so what about microencephalatics and those in comas?

Is it moral? Is Pol Pot less human because of the killing feilds?

What does it take to be no longer human?

Is simply being born to a human make one human in every sence forever?

or is it deeper than that?

Human is another of those fuzzy words with so many meanings as to become a catch all. I think Being human is having the general shape of a human within natural variants as well as the ability to be completely self aware.
To be fully human is to me the knowledge that you are going to die.
Once you remove the possiblity of death from the human he or she is no longer human.

My cats socialize, work in groups, and surely communicate. It is only my own arrogance that I call them mine.
:laughing: I have no idea where I am going with that one.....

In my opinion, this has something to do with spatio-temporal continuity.

For example, if you take something apart, and then put it back together again, is it the same object? It looks the same, it feels the same, but it’s been re-made. This can be the same for human beings... we mainly look the same, act similarly, but if we left a human in a confined room, alone for a few days, and then took them out, would they still be the same human?

I think for the question to be truly answered we would need to define this 'human' as you rightly pointed out about the form of a 'human.'

In our cognition, we can be seen as the brain and 'mind' being a program, and the body is the system it runs on; cognitive psychologists take the view of the mind being the brain... but what if this is not so? If the mind and the body are two separate entities for example, one may see the mind possessing the body to give it a movable form, then which part is the human?

Apologies. I am speaking in riddles. I know what a 'riddle' is, and how to define the world, because I have been taught to do so. If, when I was a child, I had been taught that yes meant no and so on, then I would not be the same... I would be somewhat out of touch with society, because we cannot understand each other.

society- this is where people interact with us every day, and we see people when they talk/move/react as 'the person, as in What You See Is What You Get

I digressed :). So in society, in order to connect with others, we have to be taught the rules of how to talk and so on, and if we break those rules, for instance if we murder someone, do we really see them as equally ‘human’ to us? This would suggest that Society defines what a ‘Human’ is, because society is a collection of those we ‘accept to be Human.’

I think to continue the question, we would have to define all these things… and who can? After all, we are only Human…. Or are we!?

if you ask a science teacher he will show you, by pointing out what class your in, Phylum, Kindom, etc. ya know the stuff you learn in Biology.

Aside from the physicality of having a human form .. to me I think one of the main "ingredient" to being human is that one must have emotions, wither they be happy, sad, angry, or all of the above. Even if one does their best to try and hide their emotions, or to look or portray themselves as nurtural to everything around them, they are still showing that they have emotions.

well does that mean that if one can't have emotions that one ceases to be human?

if that is the definition then Pol Pot and the coma victim both are in the same boat devided off from humanity....

and as for the biological definition that only means that if you are born from a human that you are human.... which is a possible awnser but it's sorta disatisfying and leaves an unpleasant taste on the palate

No I'm just saying that I feel that is only one of the things that makes a human, human. Of course there is the whole blood running through the veins, brain activity bit. Even in a coma I tend to believe that there is still somewhat some sort of brain activity. Even with machines controlling parts of the body, I still think that the brain is functioning on some level.

In regards to Pol Pot and his actions, or for that matter anyone similar to him, they are still human, because their actions are still formed or controlled by their ideals and emotions. (Having only recognized the name I looked deeper to understand who Pol Pot was, still trying to understand it) But I believe that he too even had emotions which controlled his actions.

My basis for saying that is that no matter who or what we are, what we do, there is always some emotion taking place. Some emotions go along with actual physical acts, some are just thoughts, but regardless, the emotion is there, good, bad or ugly. (am I making sense?)

I think the definition of the word 'Human' in the way it is being used here is purely opinion.

The Human Species? An obvious answer.

But the be 'Human' as society defines it?

No answer as everyone has an opinion as to what makes someone human.

yes your making complete sence....

but it still leaves the question up in the air as to what it takes to be be human and what it takes to be no longer human......

Also by your definition anything that has an emotional responce is human that would include my cat ..... but it would prolly exclude those born with only a brain stem....

"Also by your definition anything that has an emotional responce is human that would include my cat "

Ok, point taken here. But I agree with Khay here, it's kind of subjective to others opinions as to what can or will make a person human. I tend to work along those lines of a persons emotions, I have seen people who have no functionality of their motor systems, but yet they are still human because they eat, breath, drink, sleep, piss, you know the like. And the only way in which they communicate is by their facial expressions, or "noises" that they are able to make. I think there in I ma have found another thing, in my opinion that makes someone human is their ability to communicate in some form or fashion, but this too then would fall into your line above, as animals can also communicate in their own way.

I think the only real way that a person becomes unhuman is in death alone. I have yet to discover what happens to a person once they die, so I don't know if the spirit or soul lies on other then within anthers mind. I still think that even a person that some deem as in - human due to their actions, which that really is something entirely different (inhumanity) they are still human.

so this is along the lines of the one, two, three part human being....

I find it interesting that you bring time into the equation and point out that a human even a single human is a moving target and hence hard to hit and tack down.

1st part
now it is possible that we're only our physicality and that destroying any part of that irreperably harms the whole ...( tho anyone whom has clipped their nails might disagree with that)

2nd part
and in the second part the mind would be slightly seperated from the physicality. Which seems possible as well as they have done experiments on the brain where they halted electrical signals flowing along an through the brain and that hasn't stopped the mind.... tho a hard bash to the brain will.

3rd part
and in the third part it would have the functions of the first two plus spirit. Tho there is no evidence that spirit is tied to the body at all.... or the mind for that matter as we havn't seen any evidence of it's effect that could not be explained by simpler phenomena.

Now even if we devide a person up and chop them into their component parts .... metaphorically of course..... when you put them all back together I suppose you'd end up with more than the sum of the bloody bits. Actually we know this to be true cause after a few wacks with the cleaver they.... um... was that out loud?

"It's only human..."

This phrase is very common to us all. It mostly explains mistakes or actions viewed as such.

"It's only human..." to love someone you cannot have.

"It's only human..." to be jealous of someone else.

"It's only human..." to kill in a fit of anger.


Technically...

"It's only human..." to be completely psychotic and a serial killer.


See what I mean?
EVERYTHING any human does is a "human" action because it is commited by a human. If it's done repeatedly... well then it's certainly Human. Whether we like it or not.

The reason why this bakes my noodle is that there are so many opposing and rabidly fanaticle veiws on this subject.....

one position is that humans are the pinnacle of existance and hence perfect by default.....

another is that only those of your group are human (most canibals in history had this form of logic as does the kkk and various other groups)

another is the line the spartans took .... if your form and mind are not up to snuff then you arn't human and were treated as such.

modren day slavery treats one human as less than human by another.

Civil rights movements and so forth are all based on what it is to be human and what rights a human has by virtue of being human.

I think kayman is correct in that it will never be completely hammered out, but to consider that statement a be all and end all of it all is rather narrow, as the root of a lot of our problems comes from the inability to actively sort things out.

as usual....the voice of reason and intriguing thought in a sea of sheep thought and fools
thank you Mordes for this spark of grey matter in an toherwise useless forums page of riped items....
on to the topic.....my opinion of human is far slimmer....I feel the lack of emotions thing is correct.....a true sociopath is a biological robot....not really human anymore

Human=23 pairs of chromosomes.
If less then 23=not human.
If above 23=not human.

If you are a human with godlike powers, you still are not God, you're still a human, but with godlike powers!

Our thoughts and deeds are not the cause for being humans, they are consequences OF being humans!

If you are reading this thread and wondering where your post went.. I probably deleted it. Posting to say you have no opinion, or no clue about the topic is pointless and simply wastes space and bandwidth. If you have nothing to say, then type nothing.

heh you should del this after I say this scarlette but thank you.....

"Nothing."

*flinch....Dan dared me. *preparing to have something thrown at me.

so zlee by your definition genetics are the deviding line...

so any human with more or less than 23 pairs of cromosomes is not human?

Angelman syndrome, Down syndrome, Klinefelter syndrome, Prader-Willi syndrome, Turner syndrome are all caused by the deletion or addition of a single cromosome.... also all men don't have matched cromosomes as the xy pairing is a hemizygote. With the gain or loss of that much genetic material they have more geneticly in common with bonobos than humans from a strictly mathmatical point.

so it remains unclear even from a genetic stand point.

Our eye's look out and see another person and say, a human being. An intity lookes out in a crowd and see's desire. We can try to classifiy everything down to the last micro=blah on our body, but the real mystery is what lie's in the souls of us, that no science can explane.

I think too (wow i am thinking way too much here I should probably stop while I'm ahead) but anyhoo .. I also think what makes a human, human is it's ability (not my choice mind you) to get sick, catch a cold, cancers, other diseases, the ability to get sick, and grow old, to die. That I'd say is a major human - non human factor.

*to LadyLilian* Dammit! You were faster! ;)

Mordes I hate you! Why you had to question my post?! Now I must think! :)

As you said, those are all syndromes, a deviations of the original and unique genetic material of a human. If this wasn't a homocentrical society and if natural selection could have any chances against human science & technology, those people wouldn't have any chance to survive! You must admit that we are very dirty race. Natural selection has a very weak effect on humans, everyone who is born has a very big chance to survive no matter with how great flaws he was born. On the other hand let's consider that those deviations could last more than one generation and that they could be passed onto descendants, soon you would have a whole new race, very similar to human but definitly not human, and as the time pass they would become more different because they would have to evolve different ways of surviving due to their deviations. We must admit that they are different no matter how hard we try to act like they are not, and no matter how hard we try to fit them in our society they still cope with it very difficult. Being born with that kind of deviation or any kind of physical deviation is a first step in losing humanity (and I don't mean that in offensive way! being a human is not something that I am so proud of ), so I'm still with the idea of genetics!

(I realized that my english is not for this kind of threads, sorry if you're having difficulities understanding it)

I agree . Khayman, there's way too many opinions for an answer to this one.

Yes...
but Devilman2, if you are saying that you have the power of definition,then who gave you that? your own perspective? Perspective is something that wavers from each individual, and would be seen be more less reliable then science, but as Mordes said, science cannot totally define (to our knowledge) humans as the same genetic make-up.

HellChildDami- may we be touching on definition by awareness of our own mortality? Are we even truly aware of this until we are dead? :-) but besides, other creatures have mortality too, and they are not classified as human.

'Humans' are a group of evolved creatures who often ultilise the earth for extreme gains and have perspectives that differ from other mammals, i.e. the way we use other animals commercially. I think it is the way we differ that made us create our own subclass of 'human.'

Dr. Nancy Murphy says it best, i believe.

What makes us human is our self concept, the theory of other minds, --the realization of another individual's conscious --, morality, social structure --such as language and complex forms of communication, unlike any other animal. Animals don't write their constitutions and laws -- the ability to anticipate death and last, but certainly not least is our religious sensibilities--our ability to question the patterns of nature.

what does make us human. attitude, personality, out look on life. being a good person maybe. who knows.

Deity: Very nice answer.

I believe that I am human because I have a soul. I can think. I am aware of my existence, and the shortness thereof. I can love. I can hate. I show emotion. That, and when I look in the mirror, I don't see a frog, otherwise, I would say I was a frog.

We are very much like other creatures in the sense that most other animals can also do exactly what we can. That is because we are all animals. We are mammals. As far as the food chain, we are not that much higher than most creatures. Biggest difference on that, however, is that our greatest predator is ourselves.

I guess what I am trying to say is that being human is an idea, nothing more. It is a label to the state we currently find ourselves in. We created it to separate ourselves from all the other creatures that roam the earth. A superiority flaw. Most people do not want to be listed on the same level as an earthworm, it is just the way we are.

How do you become "not human"? You don't. Basically, every mistake you make, no matter how severe, can still be dismissed as "I'm only human, afterall".

Maybe I'm crazy, LMAO. But not to put anybody's post down, because I believe they are all educated opinions. I however believe when someone see's me, they see a human. Not knowing that there is many intities, demons, angels and the gods that use my body as host, plus my soul if I still have one? Human is a shell, what lies underneith and leaving it's phy fingerprint is by far not human. So I have to say it! (more human than human)LOL

so you are suggesting that the shell is the human....but not the soul which inhabits it?
interesting concept as the soul is supposed to be an eternal.....be it for good or evil....
so as an undying thing...the soul itself would not be human....but the shell it inhabits is......
this line of thought intrigues me somewhat......Mordes?...any opinions

Would you be a human if you were a cat, for example, that could think and has a soul? Why giving so much credits to people? We are just another race among so many other racesfor, no better than an earthworm or a squirrel and no worse than some alien form of life!

typo: racesfor=races

who said giving credit zlee?
I never said a human was the only thing with a soul.....I merely was inferencing if the soul itself had the human element...or if that was just the bodily shell....?
I do not credit humanity as better than any other creature.....if anything we are less deserving...but that is not this threads topic.....

This question was not directed to you Daermon, but to all the people, we were writing our posts at the same time, but you were faster. :)

and you asked a very good question! Personally, I think that the soul and body could not be considered absolutely separated. Soul is something that makes body evolve, but it's tied and conditioned or restricted by that body. I believe that a soul is a part of one universal energy limited by the form it takes.

hehe this is like my question of: are we what we are or we become what we are?

So there is alot of interesting question.

nail to the head death....

I don't think any entity deserves anything but a chance from existance....

anything that isn't earned, has no meaning or substance.....

if humans are humans by default doesn't that make a human meaningless and by extentsion the entire human race?

I'd rather be more stringent and have people earn humanity so it means something... that's why I'm lothe to call a person human with out some form of justification for it.... 'cause as humans we're supposed to be better than that.

cats are cats by default but that doesen't make their existence meaningless

it's all relative , zlee. The value of its existence varies on the individual observing it.

what is meaningful to you might not be meaningful to someone else.

♥

i think humans are part genetic, part soul, and part the fact that we are so arrogant as to actually believe that we are the best, the closest to whatever god or belief we hold as to what created the world. we see cats as mere animals, but we see other humans as the same when they stop acting the way we believe they should. so human is nothing more than the belief that our type of animal is the most evolved, the best. so what if all the animals believe that we are in fact less than they? does that make them human as well?

well, if existence is meaningless to one does that makes him hypocrite if he still exists?

I wrongly concluded once that my existence here is meaningless so I tried to solve that problem by removing myself from existence, it came out to be that I realized that being a human is not so meaningless as I thought, I still don't know why I stopped "removing me from existence" project, but I'm sure that there is something that gives the meaning to all this shit that we call human life. Everything that exists, exists with a purpose, and if it's my purpose as a human just to die at one moment then I'll try to do that the best I can and I'll try to make that look like one big party!

Probably the one thing that divides humans from "lower lifeforms" is their capacity for destruction of their own species! Humans are the only species native to this planet that kill it's own kind for sport/fun!

Yes, other species may kill members of their species, but it's normally due to lack of food, the "victim" is weakening the Pack/Troop/whatever due to illnes or old age, or the Leader of the group may see the individual as a threat to the Group!

we are no better than anything else in this world..at least thats what i think..who knows it may come baCK ON US

zlee, the existence of a particular being.


Don't jump the gun.

It would be human to say, we agree to disagree becuse were all changing and observing different!( Taking another drink of Guiness) ;)

It's the essence of ones intersoul to be human or whatever !!

a cat is a cat because thats what we call it, Zlee, and who are we to define things? We define things as we define ourselves, with labvels and characteristics, thats how the human mind works to make sence of its surroudings.

Jhonny I think your wrong about the lower life forms... to think that we're the only animal that kills others of their own species for pleasure or for some other form of gain.... it's human arrogance to presume that we're the only murderers and the only thieves.... most life on this planet is paracitic. Most things live by killing something else.... most animals are teritorial and will kill another of their kind for them simply being too close..... no human beings are not special at all in their instinct for destruction.

Yea, but we are the only ones with a conscience and the knowledge to know what is morally wrong and right. Besides, it's man's maladjusted mind that kills for sport. Animals and parasites do it for survival. They have no hidden agenda. Men do it for their own sick and twisted, sociopathic thrill. And I don't need to be told about, "Oh, I eat what I kill.", or the, "Well if we didn't kill them, there would be too many deer." Seems mother nature was doing fine before man walked in and started destroying things. And there is a super Wal-Mart on every corner now...and they take food stamps. Besides, I like deer.

When in Estes Park, Colorado last month, the Elk were walking around, freely. It was so cool. Traffic stopped so that they could cross the street. No hunters around to kill.

Back to human beings....I agree with several others...all in our own opinions.

Native American Indians see human beings as loving people. They do not automatically give the title simply because someone is alive and in human form. Morality plays a big part, I believe, kindness and respect for all living creatures, large and small. *smile* And I try to live my life by that.

heh we're not alone in morality either... some animals will help even prey animals to survive for no apparent reason.....

I'm just saying it's a human arrogance to suppose that animals arn't as capable of the negative and the positive as man....

It's a dangerous arrogance because it changes the focus on a lot of things.... like the enviormental movement..... "man will destroy the planet" ....no man isn't capable of that to spite all the nukes we have.... life will survive all we could throw at it and more..... life as we know it, including us, could be destroyed by man. So the actual concern of the enviormental movement is that we'll eventually make this place uninhabitable for ourselves (tho to some it's just that it won't be pretty any longer that bothers them... cult of cuteness and all that).

Jamie your right that the natives didn't automaticly make a person a human.... but that didn't stop something with out the form from becoming a part of ones family either.

:) I'm not jumping a gun, this is a debate, isn't it? I just said how I see things and you disagree with that point of view and I disagree with how you disagree with me and you'll probably disagree with how I disagree with you, until we agree that we disagree! :)

I'm not sure if I understood you well, again, but below is a reply to what I understood.

My answer is still the same, if one belongs to a certain race and the existence of that race is meaningless to him he should try to change into something different, if he can't change then he should "leave" the existence, if he can't "leave" that existence, then he should just shut up and dance!

...Echo, I meant cat as a cat is a cat, no matter how we call or percieve it.

let me put it this way: If I start to behave like a tiger, for example, (or any other animal, doesen't matter) do all the plastic surgery and tattoos to the level that you could misplace me for a tiger and then stop working on myself, do you think that my body would accept my tiger soul? (remember what problems M. Jackson has only by trying to turn himself to white man)

To be a human being is physicality alone.

To be humane, to have the metaphorical "humanity," the quality of being humane; the kind feelings, dispositions, and sympathies of man; especially, a disposition to relieve persons or animals in distress, and to treat all creatures with kindness and tenderness; mental cultivation, etc., to be a human being in that sense?

Is this what you are asking? What does it take to be "human," not genetically a human being bit?

To be capable of horrific deeds in the name of higher ideals? That's human. To be able to justify one's actions, in however roundabout and ridiculous a fashion? That's very human. Selfishness? Yep. Selfishness is what it takes to be "human," instead of just a human being.

All the nicey nicey crap that philospher's expound upon? Window dressing. We like to think we are better, nicer, more regal, perhaps, than we are.

What does it mean to be "human," not just a human being?

Selfishness.

Now, selfishness isn't all that bad. You cannot do all the nicey nicey crap for others - honestly and completely - until or unless you make damn sure you take care of yourself first. Self sacrificing? Selfless? Meh. Counterproductive, in my humble opinion.

*wink*

Oh, I wonder how many ways folk will rip me apart for this one.

:: rolls out a red carpet in front of Req. then kneels by the side and bows to the ground while she passes. peeks under her skirt to see her tattoo ::

metaphorical humanity is still a part of a physical humanity.

Try surviving without being selfish!

A sense of humanity and love helps and when you lose these things or become numb to them your on your path to the inhuman condition