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Most of what I have read and discovered on my own about vampyres in general leads me to believe for the most part they are loners. However as I go through here borrowing knowledge from others I find my curiosity peaked. I have found that many on here believe vampyres to be coven or clan dwellers instead of loners. Just wandering which is true or are both true, if so what are some books I can get my hands on that would show me the possible differences and what makes them want to make the choice between loner or clan?

Could it be that the clan based idea is Hollywood alone?
Could it be that the vampyre has a choice?
What would be the benefit of a clan verses on ones own if one were a vampyre?

These are just somethings floating through my head that I am really curious to know others opinions on. Thank you ahead of time for your input.

Are you talking about the clans as in people who get together in white and pretend they are ghosts and do horrible things to people clan? or are the sort who read to many white wolf books and go off the clan concepts from that?

No I am refering to vampyre clans perhaps I did choose a bad word but thats what I have heard them called.

do you mean like houses?

Well yes I suppose doesn't it mean basically the same thing or is the classification for another set of mythical creatures. I am trying to learn what I can on this subject.

yes, there are no clans IRL....they are the work of fantasy, or misguided individuals who fall prey to to many white wolf stories

question due to curiosity.
If vampyres were real then why not belong to a house or whichever you prefer to call it? what would be the benefit verses being a loner? Thats really what I am after is everyone opinion if it were a possible case.

That is a question that has multiple parts.

Say for example the vampire lives in a less populated area, the best way they can do their own thing is to just do it.

Same for someone who travels constantly, or enough that his/her community changes every few months or years depending on what and where they go and what they do.

At the same token, there are those who live in cities, and one might feel that the city people are a bunch of idiots and have nothing in common nor want to socialize, or be moderated by procedural politics to which can be all avoided if one keeps to themselves and not have to deal with something like a formal house or coven/guild, or society aside from what they choose.

There are those who can only operate in a group environment and wouldn't know who, or what they were without someone holding their hand. At the same coin there are things which can only be accomplished by a larger number of people such as community reform to the city/town/state that the individuals live, by having people on city council, mayors, and general community relations with the rest of their community.

Where as those who travel around, or do not interact with the community more then they have to just travel around and see whats the local thing to do, and meet some of the individuals if they want and carry about their business. Much like anyone in any other society does.

Just because you are a vamp, or an occultist or what have you, you are not required by some "law" that says you have to interact with others who hold they too are vampires, etc...its merely a way to not feel like one is insane, and to justify themselves in a medium which allows for "self-help" from a supportive community.

Infernalmage,

I've found it rather odd that you would be willing to deliberately misinterpret the gist of the thread in terms of what is meant by a 'clan', since you had already taken the liberty to respond to another thread entitled 'Vampire Clan Beliefs', where you outlined much of your personal perspective on this subject.

Your subsequent little question and answer session appears rather inane as a result, leaving me wondering exactly what your goal with that was.

Your state with absolute conviction that 'there are no clans IRL....they are the work of fantasy, or misguided individuals who fall prey to to many white wolf stories'.

May I ask how it is that you know this for certainty please? Have you been given access to a repository of knowledge which provides you with a list of all vampire oriented organisations? I would be very interested to learn more about that, if you have.

In response to your post which finally addressed the question posed, I have some queries of my own, if you would be kind enough to help me understand how you have come to form these opinions.

Isn't the best way for anyone to do their own thing, to 'just do it'? Why would that be specific to a vampire? Can you provide any further advice on how a vampire on their own might go about 'just doing it'?

And why would the same methodology apply to a vampire who is constantly on the move? Would there not instead be a significantly different set of needs for the travelling vampire to address, as opposed to one who is stationary and isolated? Could you expand on what is the 'same' between them?

For those vampires who live in populated areas, is the only benefit you can suggest being the freedom to not being bound by 'procedural politics', or surrounded by 'idiots'?

Your next two paragraphs on those who choose to live in groups is a little difficult to make sense of, so my apologies is I misuderstood its inference.

Do you not feel that it may be more than a little demeaning to those who want, and perhaps depend on that group, to suggest that they 'wouldnt know who, or what they were without someone holding their hand'?

And subsequently, rather a defeatist attitude to hold to, when stating that only groups can acheive effective change within a community?

Is a person worth less because they have no roots in a community? Is an opinion invalidated because they are a stranger? Perhaps that could be so, but given the apparent talent for a vampire to 'make friends and influence people', maybe there is scope for success where you state there is none.

Finally, it would seem by your last statement that you would advocate the enabling of a psychological state through peer pressure/support groups, but this is hardly a 'mere' thing to a person who might be questioning their own sanity, or indeed actually be suffering from a psychosis and having it reinforced by a group with ulterior motives.

I would have to agree though, that anyone who chooses to self-identify as a vampire, does not necessarily have to subject themselves to a code or set of 'laws', unless of course, they wish to remain a part of a social group who require such.

Hey stabb long time no talk.

I've found it rather odd that you would be willing to deliberately misinterpret the gist of the thread in terms of what is meant by a 'clan', since you had already taken the liberty to respond to another thread entitled 'Vampire Clan Beliefs', where you outlined much of your personal perspective on this subject.

cant a body have some fun?

Your subsequent little question and answer session appears rather inane as a result, leaving me wondering exactly what your goal with that was.

Your state with absolute conviction that 'there are no clans IRL....they are the work of fantasy, or misguided individuals who fall prey to to many white wolf stories'.

May I ask how it is that you know this for certainty please? Have you been given access to a repository of knowledge which provides you with a list of all vampire oriented organisations? I would be very interested to learn more about that, if you have.

point of fact i have spoken to some interesting people across this country over the last few years, and from what i have found out this is certainly the case, they exist as two groups in majority.

all i have currently are a few leads on names and such with more follow up work to do, from my researches this is the case.

In response to your post which finally addressed the question posed, I have some queries of my own, if you would be kind enough to help me understand how you have come to form these opinions.

Isn't the best way for anyone to do their own thing, to 'just do it'? Why would that be specific to a vampire? Can you provide any further advice on how a vampire on their own might go about 'just doing it'?

Why bother with politics if you dont have to? easy, just go about existing, right long side of humanity, doing your passions, and developing resources and networks to what ever end you would have them. particularly if your not for want for time.

And why would the same methodology apply to a vampire who is constantly on the move? Would there not instead be a significantly different set of needs for the travelling vampire to address, as opposed to one who is stationary and isolated? Could you expand on what is the 'same' between them?

the same things between them comes down to social interpretations, how one goes about their day to day, and what forms of things are socially considered rude.

I can use an example of witches in this particular case from observation in no less then 4 of the cities i have lived in over the past two and a half years. There is a natural flow to the energies and the way of life in a particular region. When someone else goes into that region, and sets up shop doing what ever it is they do, on larger scales there exists a form of territory. Boundaries and what have you that are mutually beneficial towards the doing so as to not cause conflict. However problems do arise when the guest or new arrival to the region gets there and doesn't exactly mesh with the people who are "local". If you understand so far, and yes, this does happen in real life, and its actually quite fun to watch the drama play out. It does get down into a territorial match between who does what to whom, as well as the unspoken if you screw with me, we will have issues and will solve this by any means. Same holds true at least from what observation says about things like territory. The latest observation was in the case of mature 40 and 50 yr old individuals.

For those vampires who live in populated areas, is the only benefit you can suggest being the freedom to not being bound by 'procedural politics', or surrounded by 'idiots'?

pretty much this does amount to the only thing beneficial. Less drama and one can deal with their own life, and their own needs on their own. As well as perhaps allow for a neutral ground in case there are some territorial disputes over what ever happens when ego and resources are involved.

Your next two paragraphs on those who choose to live in groups is a little difficult to make sense of, so my apologies is I misuderstood its inference.

Do you not feel that it may be more than a little demeaning to those who want, and perhaps depend on that group, to suggest that they 'wouldnt know who, or what they were without someone holding their hand'?

And subsequently, rather a defeatist attitude to hold to, when stating that only groups can acheive effective change within a community?

My particular views in this case are exactly that. The benefit of being an active member in a community is to help make life easier. We live in cities so someone can supply us with food, which we buy, we then work for someone to get money, to which we buy food, and pay rent and bills, etc. The same holds true for anything that lives within a city/community a mutually acceptable form of parasitism that allows the individuals to answer fundamentals of supply and demand, as well as a medium for people to come together on some form of acceptable social standing to have interactions which will allow them to further their own ends.

Those who cannot see for themselves what their own ends are, would not always be best suited for community involvement. Case in point in observation of homosexual rights groups and social meet ups. As well as with the neo pagan and the meet ups of vampire groups from like meet-up.com they are always just people talking, getting together, being social allowing themselves a chance to let their hair down and the spread the gossip of whos been biting who or what have you. Its good on a social level, at the same time there is also a political side to what the group will put its support towards, and what groups support it, if there is to be any public venues the group hosts, or is actively apart of, Fund raiser for meetings and such as well as any kind of economic involvement, do they write? do they sell services, and goods etc?


Is a person worth less because they have no roots in a community?

from observation yes, because one has not set a bar by which one can be measured in dealing with the individuals. "A master in one city is but a student in another" sort of thing occurs.


Is an opinion invalidated because they are a stranger?

Every time I have observed this to be the case, there is a period of distrust and perceptive "oh they are new, they don't know how we are or what we are about or etc..etc...they must not know anything"

Even in the cases where one takes the time to learn the systems that are at play within the community to which one has arrived. It takes months of interactions for them to get to a point where they are lose enough to deal with someone who came to their city, and had more information on something, or who applied it in a way that never crossed their minds, or even apply it with a greater control, then even the "most respected" members who were the community "Elders" whose words and actions have been in support of what ever it is they are after. Then it becomes a territorial match and degenerates from there.

Perhaps that could be so, but given the apparent talent for a vampire to 'make friends and influence people', maybe there is scope for success where you state there is none.

In the scope of the vampire winning friends and influencing people, there is a saying keep friends close, sort of thing. What one does is their own business, it never usually ends well unless major steps are taken to ensure a socio-political balance between those parties involved. Its not that it cant happen, but a mind of superiority sets in with "locals" about the "new person" and can easily destroy what community was there, or instantly isolate the new comer from the community simply because the path they walk is different regardless of them being on the same sorts of paths.


Finally, it would seem by your last statement that you would advocate the enabling of a psychological state through peer pressure/support groups, but this is hardly a 'mere' thing to a person who might be questioning their own sanity, or indeed actually be suffering from a psychosis and having it reinforced by a group with ulterior motives.

There are many examples where mental instability can be worked out with "group" therapy so to speak, in this case it keeps kids from committing suicide or overdosing on drugs to deal with their own issues. In an example queer youth meetings, which are just places and times when queer kids, can get together and hang out, relax etc. However other issues such as drug abuse, alcoholism, violence, depression, and other forms of detrimental behavior take place at any other time during the week, but it is in the meeting once a week which allows them a chance to get together and prolong the going off of the deep end. This can be observed in young people coming out in any community, being an interloper for a time, researching on ones own, living the lifestyle, and finding ones own place. it gives them a place to be, even if they are not part of the community. Which if they need stability and cannot find it within themselves, they can get help from a society to put them on the less self-destructive path. at the same time, social influences and peer pressures can in fact lead further into insanity and death, depending on the natures of the individual if they cannot move past the "first step" into all of the other steps which follow.

I would have to agree though, that anyone who chooses to self-identify as a vampire, does not necessarily have to subject themselves to a code or set of 'laws', unless of course, they wish to remain a part of a social group who require such.

Social networking provides a means to an end, be it social interactions with like mind, development and presenting of like minded or even new ideas. To give one a sense of purpose and belonging that there is someone or something else, which gives meaning to the live, work, pay taxes and die. However it is always a means to an end. Be it individual, or social. There is always a reason for its existence.

Infernalmage,

I have had no real inclination to speak to you, but in this instance, I wished to obtain some detail regarding your seemingly authoritative statements in this thread.

What you determine as fun, seems like a genuine waste of space to me, but we all have our own ideas of what constitutes fun, I suppose.

A 'point of fact' is it? Well, I am curious as to whom you may have spoken to that may have identified these two groups. How exactly might you define these 'groups' please?

These 'some interesting people'- do they have names, or might they be in possesion of a directory of sorts, since your own researches on this matter are incomplete?

Would the two vampires, one mobile and one static, really have the same day to day experiences, the same 'social interpretations'?

Why even would they both consider the same inappropriate acts in company to be social faux pas? Surely the isloated vampire, as you have advised, would develop their own set of standards for interaction.

I also don't see the relevance of your example of witches in the 'no less than four cities which you have lived in over the past two and a half years', to that of the case of a stationary and isolated vampire, since he is not a newcomer and would not be impinging upon any existing territory.

It is disappointing that you haven't any further and substantial ideas upon the benefits of solitary vampirism within a heavily populated area, but never mind.

From your attitudes towards groups, are we able to make the assumption that you feel that the solitary individualist existence, is a superior means of existing as a vampire?

Although I can agree that groups are more capable of effecting change in certain circumstances, the examples which you highlight are primarily within the realms of that particular social group's subculture, not across society at large, which is my point that individuals from a subculture can extend their influence outwards to the wider community without the support, or approval even, of any relevant group or organisation.

You seem to have covered my rhetorical questions regarding strangers not being accepted, so in regards to your rather negative view that any newcomer will almost certainly either destroy the community relations, or be isolated by that group if they attempt some form of dominating input;

What you describe as 'major steps', might simply be going about things in a positive and friendly manner, providing positive steps and ideas, whilst retaining inclusion of existing members, and thus becoming included with views more readily accepted.

My intention with addressing the psychological issues was to highlight that this is not something to be dismissed as 'merely' a reason to be involved with a larger group, but is instead a very critical issue, as you have now identified.

It could just as well be that one common trait they have with humankind -- the need to be among their own kind from time to time. For some, maybe all the time. So, in that, I find it would vary according to the traits of the individual.

Ok I completely understand, but other questions come to mind. I really didnt mean for this to ruffle feathers I just wanted some ideas and opinions on different possibilities.

ok so if your a vampyre and you live within a group of other vampyres other than safety in numbers and being among your own kind and all of that, what about feeding, what about well you know intamcy, how do those items play in?

I am trying to view this as though it were a possibility and if so day to day life in that custom.

I find the posibilities facinating, I hope the rest of you do as well.

tigerzplay..

In the spirit of your question...:)

Just my opinion here, so take it for what it's worth. Not much with this inflation lol.

I consider the relevance of the vampire more for it's archetype, and part of it seems to me, to be that of a loner searching for a place to 'be'. For a family they choose and accept, and where they are welcomed and accepted completely.

It's part of the tragedy of the archetype that it can go unfullfilled, or be fullfilled and then destroyed. People identify with archetypes, and thusly it plays itself out not so much because people are trying to become the archetype, but rather the other way around. They are alone, or feel they are. So they adopt the archetype they can relate to. The clan thing just comes from the desire for family.

hmm ok thats some food for thought so to speak.

Ok If I go along with that thought and lets say they or it decided that they had found where they feel they would belong. Then what? If you were immortal or even just lived for a very long time what would you do day to day, cause even if you found a house to belong to wouldn't that get stale after a while.

But along those same lines wouldn't drifting alone also become the same way. If that is the case then here we are back at square one.

which would be considered better, if either at all?

Well, I was talking more from a human perspective of being attracted to the vampire archetype...but I think it would work the same way whether we are talking normal humans who identify with the archetype, and lets assume for a moment, that a fictional style vampire were actual fact.

Life is life, the only difference might be the length of it. I know plenty of people all searching for a place to be, whether it's a goth or vampire or biker or whatever subculture. A vampire probably would not be much different. Regular humans eventually get to a point where they think they know everything there is to know about an individual close to them, and wander off to go investigate the mystery of another mind for awhile.

Of course, humans who get the idea they know everything there is to know about another human being they've been close to awhile, might also be wrong. No matter how well or how long one knows a person, there is no possible way to ever know anyone completely. Not unless they were siamese twins stuck together from birth. All of us have different existances others dont get to see from one minute to the next. Alot goes in to who we are and who we were, and who we are becoming.

As for the rest of the questions, I would imagine it would depend on an individual's perspective. A human wanders away to have their own experiences away from family (blood or chosen.) that they bring back and often share. Why would a vampire do anything different?

I cant imagine a vampire would require constant companionship, and frankly, as a non-vampire, I would find having my entire family glued to my hip not so much a matter of boring, as probably pretty damn aggravating after awhile.

:)

i just wanted to say that i agree with stabb. house, coven, clan....seems to be semantics your bantering here. as to the people that dress as ghosts and do terrible things.....i believe that is spelled with a "k", and i dont think anyone would really believe that was what she was discussing.
someone asked an honest question, and i think your answer was somewhere between flippant and insulting.

as for the question....some vamps are loners, some are "joiners". i rather like being part of a family group...there is a feeling of safety in numbers as well as being able to have more than one point of view on subjects.

I know several people who claim to be vampires. One of them says it's a coven thing, another says it's a loner thing. It basically just depends on who you talk to, in my experience. Perhaps it's a hodge-podge of all of it.

All in all, it is choice really. The vampires that have the adult instincts would care lesser about the subject rather than the kids who need more information to gain entrance into a certain circle somewhere.

Those seekers of information usually wind up either getting into trouble, or not finding anything at all since the local population catches on to their actions and thus ignores their behavior.

Personally, I couldn't care less if the individual were a loner, in a "Coven", or "Clan" for that matter as it is merely a political step in politics that make no individual successful even to their peers.

Now, on the other hand unless it is for the purpose of comradery, I see no point to any type of group scenerio. "Oh I am so bored, so depressed...No one likes me...Oh hey, can I join your "name your poison here"? Thus the individual feeling a bit important rather than a loner...Making themselves feel a bit special in a certain way, the feeling of belonging mayhaps.

But the point is, most of it is roleplay as the underground population would look at the inquisitor with a raise brow and wonder why they even asked the question in the first place.

Unless the individual were actually on a serious note, then the question would turn into something with a bit of merit and a discussion would take a turn for the better with a group this individual trusted.

There is a fine line between roleplaying a "stereotype here" and actually maintaining business with a real faction.

i feel that it is up too that vampire...a loner as some benifits that if he or she were in a clan that wouldn't be there.

Vampyre preference in a clan or being a loner? That would depend on a few things actually. If a vampyre was to belong to a clan it would mean being accepted by others of their own kind, and perhaps beating the lonely existence they experience, but at the same time it would be the risk of exposure. If vampyre gather in number they would be more easily noted by the world.
In my own mind I believe the loner route is more appropriate and safe for the vampyre. It would mean less chances of being discovered, as per there is a safer route for such a creature.
The ideal of clans seems to have been derived from games and stories from there escalating to what we hear of now, however the potential of such a thing existing now its always possible, but not in large numbers. I would still think they would keep their numbers very small to keep them hidden amongst the shadows.

I don't know why some are being rude in here about this topic as its not that earth shaking. There are clans but there aren't clans in every city. Some are forced to be loners and usually attach themselves to an online situation.

Clan Sabretooth is one and there are others. Now the use of Coven isn't as common as House, although they do exist for both vampires and those who practice wicca or witchcraft. I belong to the Coven of Darkness and it is considered a House even though they use the term coven. The House is usually the more common but many have stayed in the shadows for various reasons. I do know this because I interact with them and beyond that you will get no more definitive information than that. Quite frankly there are some things that infiltrate from novels and films but...these people are studing the subculture. Literally attending activities, reading websites whether they are accurate or not and getting to know people and writing either novels or screenplays or putting together documentaries. They may be good or bad. I prefer to interact on the fringe and keep to myself pretty much because I am not interested in the party side of things or rituals or many other things. It is like anyone else...we make our own choices there are no cookie cutter vampires.

Thank you all so much for your input. I am writing two books and was debating on which would be better for the vamp. hmm still not sure.

perhaps your vamps could emulate the ones here....some prefer a clan/house/coven, and some prefer solitude.
just a thought.
~W~

Not to be "rude" in this post, but I really need to clarify something right quick..

It was the mention of exposure. Exposure? Hell, we have been exposed for quite a while now, since the 90's in fact, what with the New York documentaries and the like, the Endless Nights events in New Olreans, books that have been written by Lady CG, Michelle Belanger, Konstantinos etc. I think that is more than a little bit of exposure.

The vampire populous I see, is in no apparent danger of anything, aside from false accusations and the like. In my opinion, the need to stay in the "shadows" has come and gone. I say it is up the the individual themselves to make up their mind as to whether or not they would feel comfortable who they are within society and quit worrying about what society would think of them.

The Coven concept is there for comradery, for self worth, for morale, as well as for a comfortable relating atmosphere that the individual could gain a bit of knowledge through others of his choosing.

It is the loner concept that instigates paranoia in my view. Since the individual has been on their own watching society, hopefully learning from their actions toward him/her, the comradery may be a thought running through their minds as if they needed to feel accepted by choice, but had a worry that the acceptance would not come...Thus the loner status of more than likely, depression. Or anger for that matter. A temperament that is justified if the way society had been treating them was in a bad form, or light.

it depends on if they are deluded or not. like other delusions its best to keep the insanity to oneself. no good can come of mass hysteria, so in my blunt opinion loner is wiser.

myself i'm a bit of a loner in the aspect of the topic.....
mostly because people piss me off and I lack the tact required to deal with it in a polite manner...I use wit like a razor and truth like a sledgehammer...and people don't normally like honesty all that much, no matter what they claim

basically clan/tribe/gang/coven/family/house, are all varied words meaning the exact same thing, a like minded group of people who gather from a sense of safety, companionship, while loners simply put, don't feel the need to be around others like minded, or at least don't feel a need to make structured organizations when they do congregate
thats really about the only actual defining difference between them

In my personal experience, belonging to the Vampire Church (which is NOT a religious organization) was an incredible experience; it allowed me to discuss vampirism and its many complications with others who knew what I was going through. This was online only, of course. At this time, the VC is an online organization, with a website and a Yahoo discussion group - but no further membership.

There are many reputable Houses across the country, but none that are near me. Quite a few in the online sphere, though.

As far as being with my own "kind", well my kind is human and I'm with humans every day. For me, the purpose of joining any organization (online or off), is to gain or share knowledge.

For the purpose of your book, I say go with whichever concept seems right for the characters. It is fiction, correct? At this point, there isn't much that hasn't already been written regarding fictional vampires, so take the one that just grabs you and run with it.

I believe vampires have a choice if they are a loner or not. That all depends on their personality I guess... Books to refer you to? None that I am aware of since it is personal choice of the vampire as stated before.

I think that they were clans of some type because once a master sires someone it is not as if he will just go off on his own, he will want to stick around that master because it would feel like home to him.

I agree that a vampire can choose if they want to been a loner or in a clan.

You know I read some books recently it was called the prime series. They all had clans but there was another clan outside of the other clans and they were like outcasts. The one clans were the vampires that tried to fit into society and such the other one was people that were just out to rob and steal and kill people. Even though these people were in that clan they were still kind of like loners and out to best each other most of the time.

my opinion: it is a personal choice. face it we all still have to live in this world and face our reality and our responsibility. when i choose to be in solitude i am. when i choose to be with others of my kind i do so...

wicked bites blessed be, darla...

Most of my kind like to be alone but there are some occasions where we are in a coven. We do not like to depend on meny others besides those close to us already.

White Wolf and Hollywood are probably responsible for the clan or pack idea. Vampires exist for so long that they eventually become loners either of their own accord or the situation.

As there are many genre of Vampires that are categorised into having certain traits, it really depends upon those traits as it were in relation to being a solitaire or part of a coven or "Clan".

Bloodlines can be quite strong, as is hereditarial traits also. Those that give sire to these are usually the Head of an actual clan. Even for those that are awakened after birth can enter into a clan if they are suited to that particular clan and its traits and/or its purpose of existence.

What were you actually after in regards to information?

Aracon

They are the same as any other intelligent being, they are individuals and so different vampires would do what suits their lifestyle, And thats that!

I belong to a family (group, house, whatever you prefer), but since I do live some distance from a lot of them I am a loner, so to speak. There are books out there who put people of this lifestyle saying that they do certain things and are certain things. Unless you have meet these people one on one, don't believe a lot of what you read.

From the fifth millennium BC, the Seers - Derkesthal; Dragons who occupied a settlement near Lake Van, in Uratu, Armenia stayed together as a group for protection of their ideologies. Yet, I am sure there were members who for petty differences of ideology became loners throughout time, as seen in any group. Therefore, my answer will seem equivalcal because I believe all is correct.

In my experience, Most are born into a coven based on a majority vote, more or less. And if a loner wants to join a coven, they have to be "vouched" for by an existing member, ie, the member takes responsibility for the new vamp.

As far as being a loner, it seems preferable, since you don't have to deal with all the rules and customs of a coven, however, you also don't have the protection of one, and can be hunted by some more violent covens. Really, being a loner is only a good option if you're strong, or have a death wish.

As for clans, I don't have any personal knowledge of them.

I believe that they are born into them as previously stated. The "family" if you will would keep everyone in the same area thus forming a clan, group or coven. I believe that any loners are either outcasts or "black sheep" for lack of a better description, and they wander far from home, but are not detached altogether.

I also have heard that they are Born into a House or they are choosen to be taken in. Yet, I think they all are Loners to a certain degree.

Connected yet, not if that makes sense. Yet, at least if in a house par say.. you have protection and Rules.

I think that it is up to the person to be what they want to be, loner and what not.

I believe both are true. But I also think it is a vampires choice whether he or she wants to be loner or part of a house, clan or coven.

a vampires life, is a long one. so therefore,when he or she is young,they would spend time seeing, and doing things mainly for knowlege inrichment.this would be their learning years. they would learn and master their powers.these would definitly be their "loner" years.

as time would pass,they most certainly find other vampires in their travels.it would be up to them, to decide if they would want to stay with each other or move on.if they choose company, they will form "covens".

and of coarse there are vampires who find covens that are already formed.the master of the coven, is no doubt, the oldest,wisest, and strongest vampire.

when a person is "turned" into a vampire.it is usually in the best interest of the master vampire.and would probably be rare that he, or she leaves the coven.

but things do happen.as with families. covens can form, and covens can break.

I would think that a number of factors could influence a vampires decision to be either a loner or part of a coven/clan.

Humans, by nature, are either loners or social creatures depending on personal preferences and personality traits. Why couldn't vampires be the same? Aren't loners stereotypically portrayed as generally dark and sinister? Hollywood loves to play on that stereotype. I don't remember seeing Bella Lugosi with groupies swarming around him.

Than again, there is the old saying 'There is safety in numbers' which might influence a vampires decision to become a member of a coven or clan.

Thank you everyone. You all have given me much to think about. I believe my main character will be an outcast of a house, because she is not up to their standards yet they feel responsible for her. There is much to consider, for now though I have a fantastic start and lots of knowledge and ideas to draw upon. I cannot thank all of you enough for everything you have added to this thread. I have read every post and considered everything said.

I have decided my main character though an outcast will continue to do what pleases her most, which is to help humanity in finding a way to not be so vulnerable to the vampire race.

Tell me what you think. I like it.