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you know my house lives by some of the veil we have it in my house but we also live by our own pillars my brother why did you not post it all?

I can post the rest of the tenets, but these are the basics that most houses and ronin go by.

I live by some of those rules, but I also live by my own honour code aswell.

well this is the way my house lives.



The Dictum

1. Black veil (secrets)

Secrets not only protect us from those that would do us harm, but they also bind us. They give us a common ground. The inner teaching's should not be shared, with any who are not ready. Community secrets are our unity!! The outer teaching's are a tool to screen, others into our family and brings us together. Share your nature only with those who have the wisdom, and understanding to accept it. learn to recognize these individuals Our secrets are our safety and unity!


2. Responsibility

The nation embraces the concept of, respecting the laws of the human world. Though we are an international subculture with our own codes of conduct. We still live in there world. No member of the house should ever commit any illegal act. Doing so will bring shame, unwanted and unhealthy, attention to the your self, the house and the nation.



3. Minors


No one under the age of 18 are to be part of a house. there are things in our life style that is just not for the young Some of us feel that the first signs of awakening at an early age. Under no circumstances allow any to attend' Quabals (meetings) , undertake ordeals (trials) or be initiated, into a house of any kind, or to gain access to any outer or inner teachings.



4. The Mission

All of our nation are of the same spirituality. We are all parts of the spiritual organism that is Elorath. It is our job to the brethren to help to keep our way of life alive, by trying to make something of our self's. In doing so we create jobs for the nation and set an example for the next generation. Never force our way on any one. Doing so will weaken there love for the nation, thus making the nation weaker. Let them come to us. If they do come willingly they will be more open and willing to learn, if they feel the calling they will come.


5. Religion


Never speak ill of another's religion or beliefs. All religions have something to offer to our way of life. We come from all walks of life. Respect all races, religious beliefs and sexual preferences. We are all family. Am I my brothers keeper? Yes, I am!


6. Recognition


RESPECT!! And recognize all in, Vampyre, dark &esoteric organizations and groups. Our community is simply too small to have conflict keep us apart. Among us there are many different practices and many points of view; no single one of us has all the answers to who and what we are. RESPECT!!!!! each person's individual choices and beliefs. Learn about them and share what you know. Our diversity is our strength. RESPECT those that are the elders. They are the elders for a reason.



7. CREATION


Support and host Quabals, open havens, start a business, encourage and support artist, dance, performances, rituals and all forms of expression which, will keep the dark flame burning. we are here to create a culture in which, we can all support each other and thrive at that fullest of, our potentials



8.THE PACT

HONOR, CHIVALRY AND LOYALTY!!

Are the benchmark of the Strigoi VII.
we seek to resurrect and express, the empowering traditions, of a long lost era. While consistently updating them for modem times. We are all adults and should strive, for a higher moral standard. Always be civil!!! even to your deepest enemy, and resolve conflicts in private. Confront those who have offended thee, directly and respectfully. When in another's lair, respect their, traditions and laws, and never enter without, being invited. Although also know that it is your right, to protect your territory, business, your home, your person, and the members of your family.



9. SWANS

Swans are our beloved companions, allies, mortal family and donors. Treat them with respect, as they know our ways, and offer their loyalty to us. ALL OF OUR HOUSE MAY HAVE UP TO TWO SWANS. NEVER DISRESPECT THEM! NOR LET THEM BE DISRESPECTED. Allow them to make an informed, decision before they give them selves to you. Never feed from another's swan.. never feed from the ill. Never feed from the elderly. Never drink the blood of the dead! Never lose respect for those who let you be who you are!


HIGHER THINKING

Live with an open mind. To live with an open mind, is to live with understanding. To live with understanding, is to live with peace. To live with peace is to live with love. To live with love is to live with GOD!



THE SEVEN PRINCIPLES

1. DUTY LOYALTY (CHU)

2.JUSTICE MORTALITY (GI)

3. COMPLETE SINCIRITY (MAKOTO)

4. POLITE COURTESY (REI)

5. COMPASSION (JIN)

6. HEROIC COURAGE (YU)

7. HONOR (MEIYO)

I believe that the Black Veil is a very good set of guidelines for the vampire/vampyre community. I am taking into account that many of us include various other guidelines, but nevertheless, The Black Veil holds its own wisdom.

Always good info for others to know. So many don't know the Veil.....

I don't believe that the Black Veil should even exist.

There are a few portions of the Black Veil which we agree on, but the Black Veil is new and is no more than less a decade old. In fact the original version of Black Veil was mostly derived from the role-playing game, Vampire the Masquerade. It was later edited so that it would pull away from the RP game and make it more usable in the vampire community. We should be focusing less on attempting to please the outside world by setting "let's be good little vampire model citizens" guidelines, and focus more on bringing ourselves closer to our true potentials, and our own Community. We shouldn't have to hide from the face of the public nor should we turn the other cheek if challenged or threatened. We shouldn't be here to be diplomatic to the outside world nor should we attempt to please the public by reforming to what they consider proper or normal… if one keeps reforming to the mind set and thought process of the majority, then one will never truly learn anything. The ethics of the outside world shouldn't concern us or our communities.

Though some of the Black Veils guidlines are valid, such as diversity, it is still a document which emphasizes on vampire conformity to the general public. I just don't believe that conformity is an option... for anything or anyone. One should be, as one should be.

So, a code of behavior, set forth by an rpg game, and that's what all you vampire/vampyre wannabes want to follow? True alot of it is common sense, but I live by no one's code of ethics or morals but my own.

i just like to not say and stay hiden from the world i live in

the thing I should point out, its hard to break reality and role play from each other at times when it comes to certian aspects of the vampyre community.

The Black Veil, has a lot of common sense aspects to it, which is what I follow. Yet, other then that, I follow my own path, most of which follows the Bushido, which basicly follows that of military code of conduct as well.

- Sin

i agree in respect to both lordseth and scion...some people dont know how to incorporate reality with illusion, even if the veil has aspects that are common knowledge in the vampyre world.

I follow the black veil code ofcourse not to the *t* but I try my hardest. There is one thing I found out frome speaking to alot of people about it. Most know of it but don't know the significance that it poseses. Most say they follow it but when you ask them what it means they draw a blank. An example would be a few people here on the rave. But I don't hold that ignorance against them for they probally were taught anything about it.

How many would agree with this?

I think one thing we all need to realize is, we live in a world not of our own making.
As far as the "let's be good citizens" thing, I try to do that anyways.
Any community has a certain set of rules/ guidelines that they follow, this just happens to be ours.
And no, It's not some RPG cult or whatever. Some of the things from RPG were taken from things/ ideas that already existed, so yes there are similarities.
You have to ask yourself, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

i agree vamp.i miyself have not had alot of time with the veil.but will study it longer,just becuse it means something to outhers of the same nature.

very nice both of you

It makes sense Scion. Like you I follow a code.. but I follow my own path. Like Bushido.

We all follow a path, they all very, yet paths do change and so do our aspects of what we follow at the time.

- Sin

LordSeth,

I am sorry to have to come to disagree with you.

What matter how long it has existed- you cannot claim that tenets written hundreds or even thousands of years ago can have any more validity in modern society.

It was derived from a game born out of popular culture. It has allowed vampyrism to be accepted as a less threatening concept for humanity.
In this, it has been an enormous boon to the 'PR' of the vampyre community.

If one submits to a choice knowing the implications of that choice, then surely it should be allowed to be made.

Those who choose to live by the code of 'do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' or even a simple 'live by my own rules' make an equal choice- should you be denied that because someone believes that you are wrong?

I personally believe the black veil is a perfectly acceptable image to present in order to enable the deconstruction of the prevailing myth.

And while I agree that conformity limits imagination and choice, which leads to stagnation, often the result of such attempts at control result in a much greater reaction when it finally occurs, as it always must.

There are many intelligent thoughts on this thread. I commend everyone for sharing their perspectives in an informative and civilized manner.

A code of Honor is always worth having.

"Keep it simple - keep it sacred."

Holy poop.

For once, I actually agree with Stabb.

On some parts at least. I believe its more of a way for the wannabe vampires to integrate themselves into society while maintaining a "normal" life. Its more for LARP'ers and such.

I unfortunatly am ignorant of the black veil but have all intentions of learning about it. Im sure I don't follow all the "suggestions" but I will if I know what they are. I will try my best to learn and stay open minded I promise!

I too had not heard of the Black Veil either-I agree that guidelines are always necessary no matter what you do or believe in, but I think they shold be guidelines-not carved in stone laws-but to each his own

i follow the black veil very closely and i make sure others do too

its a good code to follow but we all take away different things from it (wannabes or not White Trash Druid)

I think that keeping an open mind is paramount. It's really great to be independent, and follow one's own ruled / code/ edicts, whatever; but, where's the harm in learning from another's code? Who cares where they came from? If they make sense and there is something in them that resonates with you, then take that which can augment your own personal views and discard the rest. Always keep your feet firmly planted on the ground, and no who you are.

Also, forgive yourself if you don't know who you are just yet. There's nothing wrong with that. We all have an "embrionic" stage. Try everything on until you find something that fits. THen take that and build upon it, make it yours. The goal is to emerge a whole new creation, unique in and of itself while still leaving room for improvement, connection. You don't want to end up being so damn special that no one can ever relate to you and you can't form healthy relationships. Not unless you intend to become a hermit.

For my part, I generally like other people, vamps or not. So if they have something (laws, codes, whatever) I can learn from, great, if not, great. I still have my own laws and expectations and learning or taking on someone else's to see what I can learn isn't a threat to me. I know who I am and I'm not that complicated.

great responce mertitet i agree with what you said very nicely put i may add i follow most of the veil im not perfect but i dont go against it i am who i am and the veil hasnt really changed anything that i do or continue to do but anyhoo great post sin......

Metitet NICELY PUT!

Again, I find I am learning new things.

And which version of the Black Veil would this be?

Well this was the current black Veil created by the sanguinarium. Most of which is common sense, yet then again. If common sense was common, then we wouldn't have so many problems in the world.

- SIn

Very true Sin....very true

I agree completely with the Black Veil guidelines and think these matters should be handled carefull for tho' I can not deny the wisdom of the elders I also know times change as do beliefs so there are constantly new things to consider.
Eternally,
Heart

i did have a thought here

and it is well summed up by

~~~~ VampyreHeart ~~~~

thkn you well spoken bows 2 u

Yes, Respecting elders. Now this one I will have to point out needs to go both ways. Yes those of age do have a bit of wisdom, yet so does youth or those who have seen a bit more of the free world before becoming apart of a house. Its best that both sides give respect where its due.

- Sin

Don't even get me started on this crap...lol

yes i repect my elders

My house lives by alot of those rules and I myself follow the veil as much as possible

The Veil, in spite of it's fairly recent, and in some ways less then stellar origin (being as it was in it's first incarnation largely pulled from the role playing genre) still has it's merits.

As was said in previous posts much of it is, or at least should be, common sense. Some within the community will adhere to it almost religously, while others may take the parts that suit their needs and their lifestyle best and adapt them to their own set of moral guidelines.

Either way it certainly does not hurt to have it out there in existance, and especially for the newer and younger ones just being introduced into the community, it is a good thing to have available to guide them as they are adjusting and adapting to this aspect of their nature and lifestyle.

Whether they chose to fully embrace the rules as they exist in the veil itself really is not anyone's call but their own or that of any house/clan/coven they may chose to join.

But I don't see it as being a bad thing at all.

actually I believe I did mention it some where in the thread about the Black Veil being derived from the LARP game of Vampire the Masquerade. Yet, if it wasn't me then it was someone else that brought it up, other then you.

Yet either way, you have a point. Yet, no matter what you look at now a days, something regarding something with the vampyre culture is going to mention in a role playing game or fiction book some where. Yet all we can do is wonder what came first, the idea for the vampyre community or the idea for a role playing game or fiction book.

- Sin

I think it was you that mentioned the fact earlier in the thread Sin and possibly at least one other, though I can't remember who right now.

I was just saying in that comment that I believe that in spite of the actual part the role playing terms and rules had in it's inception, the Veil is still a good base for members of the community, especially the newer ones just coming in and learning about it, to work from.

As to which came first? Well if we ever want to find the answer to that it will take a lot of time, effort and extensive research lol.

For myself, I don't think it matters which came first. The community is here, it serves a valid purpose, and I don't think it is going to go away. At least I hope it never does.

i loved reading what u all wrote above... i agree with many of your opinions and that's why i will not leave my thoughts here. it wouldnt be anything new

Indeed, I know the game came first and then the Sanguinairum pulled together to make the rules of the Black Veil after. Yet, like you said, its here now and has served to be something worth learning and taking to hear.

- Sin

well these are the same basics ideas the vamps in my stories live by