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What pros, and cons do you sight for both options?

How important is it to you that others who do not share your practice know what you practice/ believe?

Dabbler could you be a bit more specific in what you are referring to here.

I cannot be sure if you're talking about religious faith or my belief that I am a great basketball player... Well I am in my mind at least.

Just add what practices or beliefs you are asking about please.

I would leave that open, to the poster to specify.

To avoid any discrimination.

Collective people practice, or worship with others that share their beliefs, or practice. Solo people study on their own.

Are you basically asking......... how important is it to you as an individual you are in or out of the religious closet?

No, this is more related to preferrences of practice/ Worship.

I find specific practices, or beliefs to be pointless here. People can specify their belief or practice if they wish.

I think what ~Dabbler~ is wishing to ask here: Is it important to the individual whether or not their esoteric practices and or beliefs/ideals are recognised by others, or accepted?

As in, does the individual care about what others think when they practice or belief in IE Wicca, higher magicks, esoteric arts, voodoo or other arcane references.

I believe this thread stems from other related threads such as the thread entitled: Following the rede, the number 13, as well as a couple of others.

More of a psychological persective regarding areas of the thought process brought on by self importance.

To answer this:

No, I couldnt care less who knows if I practice or not...I am not here for them. I practice for myself alone, since in the spiritual world, I seem to be the conduit and only important individual. Others are very important concerning the Macrocosm, but within the microcosm itself, I practice for myself alone. Since at times these practices are either mocked, ridiculed or subject to both scrutiny as well as begrudgement, it should not matter what others think about your own personal beliefs, practices and or agenda(s).

You are in the right area SS, thank you.

I find nothing wrong with collectives, or solo practices.

I have seen issues arise in collective practices though. Issues involving members who seek higher acknowledgements then others.

I have seen soloist who mock collective practices as foolish.

I never draw attention to my practice personally, but those I keep company with benifit from my practice all the same. I fond that as SS says people that are too outgoing regarding their practices ( wether spiritual, metaphysical, or other) are subject to scruitiny, from those who share beliefs, practice, or do not believe. Some even seek such info for building facades ( acting like they are initiated).

Just for this reason some collective orders, and practices set "pledged" up with " secret rites" to then see if they will leak what they are entrusted with.

i prefer the solo practice. i find that my path is very individualized and i haven't found any of like nature that follow the same methods to my madness.

as far as others knowing what i do? i prefer to keep it secret among those i know. i don't think they would understand and it might hamper me a little bit.

The only practice that I know, that can be done as a solo, is witchcraft. And yes, solo is most interesting. Less drama and better interact with the inner self.

I don't believe it requires acceptance of others beliefs/pratices to be accepted or recognized.
But to the infraction that everyone is able and capable to finding their own beliefs/ practices, changes, opinions, etc. and finding what suits them best individualy.
Either your interested and open to learning something different or new, or your not.
It should not require intense disection to prove it right or wrong in order to utilize it in a whole or any portion there of in personal practice/ belief or participation.

I have seen both the pros and cons of both solo practice and practicing in groups.

Pros for Groups is that you have others that can help you grow and understand things you may be having trouble with. That can come to your aid when you are having trouble working through something new or difficult for you.

Cons for Groups run the same way. Groups become institutions. And then you are forced to practice within the confines of the institution. You are bond by the will and morals of others. Which can stunt ones growth as much as help it.

The same pros and cons exist for practicing Solo. While you gain the freedom to form your own path, things you have trouble understanding become that much harder to understand. You trade that support for animinty.

I, Myself and more of a soloist, but I do keep contact with others who share My belief for those just incase moments.

I enjoy the pros of both, myself. I go to church a few times every week with a group that does not follow the normal, watch a guy talk for an hour and then everybody gets up and leaves, thing. In this church, the teaching is a conversation between the speaker and anybody at all in the audience who has a question or wants to make a point, and after the main teaching, everyone drinks beer and talks some more. They're accepting of the fact that I don't believe most of what they do. Really, though, as far as having others be aware/accepting of what I believe, it only matters as far as people not burning me alive at the stake.

Yeah, that's pretty important. I like freedom. And not smelling delicious.

Without picking in nobody, if you go back, let say, 60 years. Did you noticed how many churches resurface out of nowhere. And do you know, that to belongs to this called churches, you must give part of your monthly check every month? Many humans, are using the name of God or the goddess to satisfy a physical life and not to create knowledge about their spiritual life. I got coworkers, that belongs to those churches, tell me, that what I follow is wrong and that they will be "praying" for me. My reply. Ahh, cool, you'll be praying for me, and someone will be praying for your wallet..Sucker!!!!

Worth mentioning Markus. Some collectives pool money for activities involving the group ( personally i find that to be a pro for collectives)Community coffers benift from some establish religions as well.

Yet, as Tildan, Roberts, and Silvia Brown demonstrate such collectives can be exploited, and the moneys allocacted away from benifting the devoted in any way.

Anytime and in any circumstances that money is pooled together there is the chance for abuse I don't think belief has much to do with that problem.

As for myself there are advantages in being with a group in your observances because we as humans are I think a herd type creature. It's good to have other's especially one's we like and respect that listen and agree with us about things that are important to us.

But there are also times I like to be alone to commune in my own way with my own thoughts leading the way.

It's not necessary for others to know of my beliefs or to approve of them but it is nice not to have to hide them and to be able to share thoughts.

Beliefs or practices are left to the individuals structure on how or who this falls into play. generalized practices even in churches seem as a group, yet outside the structure beliefs are made up of the individuals own stem of how and when to do such things.

Whether you deney or say yeah the practice or belief stems from your own insight within the realms you call structure in the society or culture.

Many come to be sol for the purpose of more indepth findings of their own feelings and baring their soul in which they do not want to show others.

I fear collective practices. Humans tend to be tribal and to reject outsiders. Collective practices can lead to discrimination and persecution, UNLESS a fundamental tenet is toleration of disbelievers.

It all depends on the group. Personally I like private study, but it is nice to have a community to bounce Ideas off of. If that society is too dogmatic, or too ritualistic, I think a problem developes. The same is true of the solitaire.

There is a theory that a mob is more intelligent than the individuals. If your collective can keep from being dominated by one individual, that is; at which point it usually becomes a political entity that have interests that do not serve teh group, and so could be considered less than the herd intelligence.

A group also keeps you motivated... it is sometimes hard to stay focused as a solitaire.

I believe a collective would be good for beginners - when you first get into a practice, there are all sorts of questions. If you have a good, solid group around you to turn to, they can really help.

As a person grows stronger in their practice, they might not need a collective any longer, but they also might like that sense of community.

I've never had a group to turn to for questions on my beliefs, but I can relate to this from my experience with my awakening. I mean, one day I was this 'normal' girl - the next I had this awareness of an energy need. Had it not been for various people within the online vampire community, I think I would have lost my mind. Over ten years later, I'm comfortable with myself again and I know what I need to live comfortably. However, in my search I have made many good friends and I consider them family. They're there for me when I'm down and they're always helping me expand my knowledge.

Perhaps it's like this for those who choose the collective path rather than the solo path.

I study alone most of the time, when my Mentor has time, He helps me..He gives me lessons persay..Things to study and look up, learn when He isnt around..There are a few who knows what I do, but I dont go around yelling it out or bragging..It isnt I ashamed because I am not..My neighborhood is consisted mostly of Blacks, not saying I am racist because I am not, in fact one of my neighbors did a binding spell..So she has a pretty good idea of what and who I am...I live in a redneck town as I am sire most of You know about, the church ppl try to run it also..IDK..I am secretive in some ways..This is how I feel

I personally don't have a preference but can see pros and cons on both sides. I think it is more an individual choice and how it makes the person feel. Some may like collectives as it enforces their beliefs and maybe they can get advice or mentored. As far as solo goes I believe that the person just likes to keep it to themself and do not wish for others to be involved with their practices or beliefs.

I practice solo , and I do not care who approves of my religion I ,m a witch and that is what I have been for a very long time. I always say you may not approve of what I do but you might as well except it because I,m not gonna change. Collectives are fine but I like to be able to work and do things in my own way without a bunch of ceremony .

I do not care what they think of me either, I just like keeping to myself is all...Does not matter if they know at all , just way I am

I use to practice solo and sometimes still do. I believe it is up to the individual what feels right for them.

As for judgement....it does'nt even have to be a religious matter, for people to judge. I don't care how people judge me, for they do not walk in my shoes.

We have become a society of judges, judged on beliefs, practices, appearance and social structure. Humanity has now moved in the shadows on their structure and beliefs because of this.

please refrain from confrontational post. This is not a thread about beliefs being judged..or practices being scrutinized.

Please consider expressing how you decide who to share your beliefs, or practice with.

Just please refrain from implying that " anyone who doesn't accept my beliefs.." post, thank you.

Some argue that to not care what others think about your belief, or practice, is to not offer such info at all.

Thank you.

Sharing beliefs is left up to individuals. Expression of beliefs is always scrutinized by believers and non-believers. Solo practices conform to your personal structure to avoid confritation bt others.

Pooling resources in collectives, places a dependancy if delegation, the collectives that tend to last longest are collectives of individuals established in their own practice.

It really depends on what I am doing. Sometimes to get more insight into something I like the input or a class with a group. Then I go off and do my own thing. I do better solo but I don't really speak of a lot of these things to others whether it be occult, metaphysical or beliefs. So I don't really "cite" to others what I do or am interested in unless it was in a forum or group setting of like minds that supposedly catered to such things.

Let us not forget mentoring and apprenticing.

The young solitaire is usually someone who has come from outisde the fold and has limited knowledge. If one is a solitaire after having recieved a foundation of knowledge with which to base tehir private belief, then they are fine, but as the cliche goes... a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

It should also be noted that one is not considered to have made an achievement unless one is capable of sharing it. If you do not share your wealth, you are not wealthy, if you do not share your knowledge you are not knowledgeable, et al. Any achievement that cannot be shared is not worth having.

Thus one should be made to teach before being able to consider yourself an independant in a field of study.

yes one of the trappings of collective practices, or beliefs is the rank "game" someone always wants a lead position. It is agreed that to lead one needs acredibility, and accountability to rites.

That is so completely not what I meant.

But it is a point.

I was refering to mentoring not acrediting. I disagree with acrediting on most levels...

I am talking about people that have gone beyond acrediting and realize that the societies acknowledgement of a specific standard of learning, isn't worth the secret handshake.

Was it harpo marx that said that I would not be a member of a society that would have me as member?

Being proud to be a member of a specific group is almost like saying I am the lowest common denominator.

That " pissing contest" mentality breaks apart the lesser collectives.

If collectives are to associate with other collectives, I could see request for
Accredidation being neccesary.

Any collective that teaches others van differentiate themselves from learning collectives with reference options.

I do not claim to be able to teach anyone for I am still learning myself, to share what I know with another is cool..I like to follow My Mentor in His knowledge, take lots of notes, study..Learning is good for me..This goes for normal things also...I am the kind of person that tends to keep things to myself, what my business is, is just that..Mine...Not that I am ashamed of who I am or what I do, just way I am...

My observations in the past of collective trends is the sometime flattering
Of new ( financially endowed) members.

Coddling being a social fax paus' even outside of beliefs, and practices.

I would be suspicious of a group that coddles financially endowed members, or that seeks contributions from those who cannot afford it.

There are lots of groups that seem designed to create cash flow for the leaders, and this makes me doubt their sincerity. Although such groups profess to offer enlightenment, their constant requests for contributions suggest that personal wealth is their primary objective.

One example is cults, where the rank and file give their labors and/or their wealth so that the leaders can have decadent lifestyles.

So what You 2 are saying is that sooner or later they will ask for money or what not? My Mentor has a book out now and His own Church so yeah I guess since You have said that, they do ask for something..I mean Mine hasnt yet and has in fact waived rights for Me to be a part..Such as member fees and such...So I dont think He ask this of all He mentors, could be wrong..IDK

To me comes down to individual thought process. I was part of an organised practice and it was good as a learning base. But soon found that my own beliefs were taking me into a new direction. Starting out as a collective can be good for those who need mentors and the like. I think in time it is natural to separate and become your own entity. Practice your beliefs the way you feel is right for you. I think it is a sign of growth as an individual to leave the collective to branch out and continue by practising on your own.

Agrees Lore, I have My Mentor to get me started in the right direction, show me different paths and I can make my own way..I do like doing things alone, so that way will be the one for me..I have a good Teacher and He has helped me alot

I have went to many groups. meditation, learning psychomtry, The Law of attraction, even a Edgar casey seminor. I like knowledge. I so however as my neighbor who sent away for a horoscope reading, a letter arrived to her, saying she had a evil force in her home. I asked her how much did the person ask to send the evil force away. Her answer was 39 dollars and 99 cents.

Those are the people who make things look bad for those who are looking for a higher level of their spirituality.

Those of us, who will answer people's questions to the best of our knowledge for what we have learnt, for free.

Gives those searching for answers their own free will to think what is best for themselves.

It is up to the individual to seek whether they wish to practice and learn alone, for many may feel that is their best interest.

Other's may feel that a group setting is much easier for them not only to learn from, but seek answers to their questions.

How ever one's belief system is....it should never come with a high price tag of money nor as a scam. For many are searching for the higher level of consciousness of Spiritual learning.

Society has shown that individuals are turning more to solo pratices other than orginized. Tho many spend some time within the realms of orginazied practices, the main folcul point is what they do when they are within their homes and out in society.

All very insightful post. A con of groups is the potential for scapegoating one, or a few in the group, when in actuallity it is group dynamics that are lacking, when anyone person feels they are over contributing disgruntle seeds are sown.. delegation, and consensus are key to
any group that seeks success.

Not only do groups suffer on practices, we see this with fraternal lodges suffering as a group because of individualism instead of communitism. people do not need the assurance of groups to have to comform to or belonging to but families and social aspects become the individual structure of humanity. this is mainly why many become suburbanse instead of staying in the large cities.

very interesting information...And probably why ppl fo solo what they do..Society frowns on things they dont understand, guess maybe fear is a good word...I know ppl here frown on it and call names when they dont really understand what it is all about

I'd prefer solo practice, because even though a group can be of the same religion there can be different opinions where not everyone can be accepted.

Thank you DN. A concise summary.

I have seen elitism undermine a few collectives, as a member of a collective all it takes is for one to introduce a friend to the collective, only to have that friend rejected.

Splinters, and factions are commonly started by people shunned by other collectives.


Of course I am not implying that every collective needs to be" arms open", and hold " recruiting funtions".

Well I don't practice any religion or rite over a certain belief, its more of a open philosophy in the search of "reasons of things" rather than concise facts or the notion of random-coincidence, since I personally don't adhere to that notion but respect the viewpoint and understand the approach/reasoning behind it, contradictory much? no.. science is not the "last 'coca cola' of the dessert", and doesn't hold the ultimatum in the 'truth' asseveration, since its not yet reliable to explain everything concretely, but a wide scope of the nature of things and hold more credit that many collective/solo practices deviated from "reasoning" in my viewports. Sometimes everything is not written in a "fact label" on the back. I know it might sound like a typical "what if's" rationalization, but doesn't all theories and religions rely on the same conclusion/base of assertions, each contradicting the others; one can read, observe and hear throughout history, myths, scientific approach and assumptions to discard possibilities rather than accept the given program, and the acquired knowledge gives more than any collective practices render in their practices/ convocations, Its a wide open perspective rather than the adoption of one that closes the possibilities of the whole. 'Hahaha' subscribe to mine, i only implore to read about everything and debate reasonable statements through observation of the written condition of human history. no money =D

I've done both collective and solo.

I find the collective comforting at times since many aspects of the practice are coordinated and well understood by the group. It can be a safe, familiar feeling in which to practice and a great place to go when in need of guidance.

What I find though is that the group practice itself seem to sometimes overwhelm the purpose and goal of the practice to begin with. The group practice orginated as a tool for the group members to reach their goals, but sometimes becomes an end in itself.