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Has Goth Been Hijacked? How, and By whom?

It was hijacked by the New York punk scene in the 70s, say I.

Thats an interesting question Dab. elaborate on what you mean brother...its kinda an open ended question :)

If goth has been Hijacked, its for the better :P
Just like the vampire thing, Been hijacked, For the better :P

I am not sure it has been hijacked as much as evolved. Fashion and styles change and come back again. The same in the goth scene.

I'm not sure I'd call it hijacked it's more a case of acceptance of the differences in people increasing in the Western world. People know by now that it's not that different from those who dress western with cowboy hats and such. It's a personal choice not a stigma.

Goth was hijacked as soon as Hot Topic made it "trendy".
Hehehe.

*Not at all goth BTW*

Good point Nightgame goth was never hijacked its a simple victom of evolution and individual growth, not to mention there are different classifications of goth arch types.

I agree with nightgame also. You also see the 60's era coming back with the peace signs.

I believe that it is the individual choice.

I think people have more to worry about today also, they to whom what wear what.

When I first was attracted to Victorian Parlor Fashion, I was not familiar with the Subculture Goth.

As with any subcultures there are degrees of emergance, From Custume, to custom. If we stripped the accessories, and garb what is left should be representative if the individuals SubCultural Identity.

Too many people want to be accepted as " more Goth concious" , " more Hip Hop then" but such degrees are not self actualized.

If one day, around goth friends a person dresses goth, and another they dress Prep they are more likely a subculture butterfly.

Nothing wrong with that, but when one assumes an air of depth toward others more engaged in that subculture then they are overstepping.

What effect such people have on Neophytes? They can falsly represent the subculture, and perpetuate stereotypes.

Perhaps Goth became Generic when Goth went Mainstream", Punk had it's moment as well as " Dead Head Hippy".

Here is a definition I found on the web about what a goth is....goth - peasant: a crude uncouth ill-bred person lacking culture or refinement
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn.

Now how did the term of goth come about in today's times? Is it because of the term we see here..because when people started to dress all in black and did not look like mainstream america? I think the term evolved with the times and became a subculture that many are a part of.

Then there are the cliches , goth is drab, and brooding, goths are outcast,
all Goths have a devotion to the occult, or Vampirism.

Will will always have those in subculters that want to " Own" a subculture and be noted as above other representation, or interpretation.

As if nonconformity is a prerequest to being goth.

To me I think some dress in that manner only because it seems like the "cool" thing to do..I mean after all..everyone is doing it. They need to feel trendy. For some it isn't about a state of mind or a lifestyle they lead but being sheep and doing the same as others they see. Some do it to be seen as societal outcasts or to make a statement.

Goth has not been "hi-jacked" persay, it is a state of mind that turned into some sort of trend. Nuff said.

Which Goth do you refer to?

The Germanic Goths or the sub-culture that evolved from Punk in the 1970s and died out in the '80s?

:)

there is a fine line between goth and punk and some goths like punk as well as goth and vise versa yet one will label them selves and fight for there right to be who they claim hey i say cant we all just get along

As other people say, trends change.

To me goth is more of a state of mind, which posers I know tell me it isn't.

Ah well to each their own

Yes and no.

Yes because when I was a teen (and that was after the year 2000) there was a boom of goths in my country where usually you hardly ever found any. I know that actually the subculture started in the 80's but in my country these kind of life styles started to get popular only after the year 2000.The majority were just sheep following what there friends were doing or use it as a way to 'seduce' the other teens. It's a known fact that black looks good on everyone, and many girls look good in corsets.

No- because goths decreased (always judging from what I see in my country) and other subcultures took its place. Those who were just in a phase and those who live it differentiate.

In my opinion being goth sometimes happens over a period of time for some and almost immediate for others as you die unto yourself and become an expression of what flows from within and you allow yourself to fully embrace it, its really a moment of self discovery. I have many friends who are hard core goth and some who are preps and whats amazing to me is one of my good friends is a lawyer and dresses respectable everyday and hes more goth then some of my hard core friends because it flows from within....he use to dress goth but because of his work 95% of the time he appears dressed mainstream, the point im making here is that you can take a can of pepsi and pour it in a glass without its fancy wrapper and its still pepsi :)

Wraith hit the nail on the head. Goth isn't about the outer appearance at all :)

Wraith, you bring up a lot of really good points.

When I graduate from university and start looking for jobs either for temporary employment in order to save for law school or just a job period, I know that I can't come into the office wearing all black and a Cradle of Filth shirt* with black hair down to my ass and a velvet cloak.


Looking "goth" can be accomplished easily without the need for corsets, leather or black finger nail polish, though those things (along with fishnets and such), do help sell things from a superficial perspective. I avoid wearing Hawaiian shirts or otherwise overtly bright colours, sticking to darker hues and my skin pale, and it all helps in my mind to be true to myself, yet manageable for other people.

* : The asterisk is there because although Cradle of Filth (and bands like them) are *absolutely* NOT goth at all, I wanted to give an example of what I might wear in my spare time. The velvet cloak and black hair, while intriguing style concepts for me that I would just adore to do, were mentioned as additional examples of things I just can't don when I'm under the "control" of "The Man" in an average 9-5 job.


I personally believe that as long as you like the music associated with the goth scene, such as Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, Fields of the Nephilim, etc, that's all you need to get "in". Unless it is actually a contest as such, this shit isn't about who looks better in a corset or how much you know about Peter Murphy's or Andrew Eldritch's life and musical works, though those things and just wearing basic black clothing will help you out.


I also believe that having the mindset of the goth, or at least an appreciation for the mindset is key.


I'm not going to get into the standard and quite frankly tired bit about school shootings and trenchcoats. I'm also not going to give a spiel on how Marilyn Manson is not goth; and to get, pardon my language, balls deep in it is just old hat. Goths who listen to the "real" music like Sisters of Mercy and Bauhaus know that Marilyn ain't no goth artist and the disturbed minds of Klebold, Harris, that Canadian guy Kimveer Gill, etc are just examples of bad apples who just happened to wear black and proclaim they were something that they clearly were not.

You have to be more specific... which Goth has been hijacked? Because the original Goth, the one from Medieval Times, was definitively hijacked... The present Goth just... evolved. You could talk about hijacking it in the ways of the "old by now" Emo culture, but that is just a line in the sand...

it seems that most counter culture styles and fashion have been hijacked my the mainstream.

high fashion, ala new york fashion week, has been taping into goth for years. and about two years ago, after voge tapped vex clothing, even fetish styles are being used in high fashion.


hell, even this year, they picked up steampunk.......

Pfft, these days it's been taken over by emos and scene kids. All the locals here call them 'goths' because they don't know the difference. Also, I personally don't think that putting on a black trench coat, dying your hair and wearing black eyeliner/lipstick makes you a goth either.

well i think that everyone here knows who is and who isnt goth, its like all of you have said before "ITS A STATE OF MIND." dont try and fancy it up just except it. we are who we are and no one will ever change us. and like a few of you have said when your doing a job or having a blissfull career, you cant "dress goth" but as long as you hold true to yourself and those you love and charish most you will always be "GOTH." thats all i really have to say so all of you take care and stay safe.

Gawl

Goth wasnt hijacked it was a fad.. Some folks got bored and wham goth.. Dark clothes and dark makeup.. To be stod out of the crowd.. Now goth is a lifestyle..

How many feel that the movie "The Crow" has been a big influence in bringing out the Goth culture?

It seems to me that it started to become a little more apparent and mainstream when that movie came out.

i'll agree on that part. but why is it that normies cant tell the diffentce between a true "goth" suck as dark spirited but not "evil" persay, and these posing junkies like "emo kids", "satanic fad", ect. whats in it that we can see and no one else can?

Gawl that is so precious, you have a pet name for people not like you, and your friends, " Normies". Are you any better then those you deem " Normies".

Still odd to me that the term "goth" was placed as a label on people who dress in all black or a way of dressing or acting from the Germanic people.Sadly though even the "goth" community get bashed for the way they think and act.Always judging the book by the cover.

dabbler- i am no better or worse then n e one in this universe. the term "normies" is for those who judge those like us and who just dont understand how we really are. and i do apologize if i have offended n e one on this post.

I note only that such phrases appear to some as the " bullied" applying the same tactics, as those that bully.

Goth is a label like any other. There are fine lines between them at times. Such as what is mentioned above..emo and punk. They are mainly labels others give in order to make some kind of sense to themselves. We are all individuals and believe as we want and dress the way we want. Those who only do it because it is "cool" or because it is the current fad in my opinion are not true to the label so what good does it do to label them?

It looks like goth has moved from a subculture to a fashion. Other posts have made the point that it has become mainstream due to marketing.

Is there a goth subculture or goth mindset that affects your life. Is it a way of dressing or a way of thinking.

Dabler, you mentioned the Victorian Parlor Fashion. Was it the look or Victorian sensibilities that attracted you?

If there is anything the nonconformist hates worse than a conformist, it's another nonconformist who doesn't conform to the prevailing standard of nonconformity.
- Bill Vaughan

And woe to him inside a nonconformist clique who does not conform with nonconformity.

- Eric Hoffer


This particular quote I took to heart when I was in high school. I saw even those that thought of themselves as nonconformists, judging those that weren't.

Nonconformists come in many colors. If you were raised by goth parents, in goth mindset, you may well rebel and be nonconformist by becoming a normie.

I think it is normal for children to rebel against their parents and their upbringing.

What is feared by the nonconformist, is that their once shocking behaviour, will be tolerated eventually.

Those with a healthy concept of their subculture identity are content without being repulsive to social elements.

its has defieitly changed for the worst id say!!! likwe most of u i agree it is a stae of mind..pple made it the way it is today..not onlythat i remember in high school i was labeled a "Goth" just because me and my firends liked black for a big part of aour wardrobe!! i find that very unfair...

what's actually even sadder is that when people say that they are goth and yet have no idea who rozz williams was.

Rozz was found hanged on 1 April 1998. Yes, was a tragic, but, what kind of influence you want Mr Rozz to give to the new generation of goth? My opinion, is better if they never listen to him. Goth has not being kidnapped, is evolving.

I "think" goth has been hijacked presently by young generations infatuated with vampire lifestyle- sensation and "emo" adaptations of the "negative" motion of life; either way the goth scene in my perspective, has being dead for quite some time; what remains is just fashion statements and subordinate branches of the style.

I don't think Goth was highjacked as much as handed away. If you look at it we decided to take in every subculture from punk to emo to rivetheads and shock rockers. Even Marylon Manson will say he isn't goth but all the neogoths flock to him as a goth god. Most of them haven't even heard of the relegated to obscurity band named The Cure.
But I disagree with MBK on the fact that it died in the 80s. It is still very much arround. But you have to sift beneath the layers of all the things that we have picked up over the years. Hell at one point grunge was concidered goth.
But to address the main point, no it was not highjacked. It's just no one has swept the cellar for the past 30 years.

Awww......words, words, words, words. Either We have too many words or too few. We name one thing this, and then proceed to label 1800 otherthings the very same thing out of sheer ignorance. Has Goth been hijacked? More like just mislabeled. Too many different views all under the same heading. Can somethign so truely ambiguos be hijacked? And if it evolves, does it not become something new? Require a new name? A new Label? Can the past be relived? Its not really a matter of if "Goth" is being hijaked? But more of a question as to where it is really going? For Better or for Worst. Its all pretty subjective to the person reading the question. No right or wrong answer. Just a different path for different people. A rose by any other name.

This thread was tl;dr completely.

I was too busy imagining a plane of Goths being Hijacked. It was amusing. I think Ronald Mc Donald would hijack it.

So wait, because I label things as "goth" or "emo" or "vampiric" makes me an ignorant brat? how so, in what casing those this remounts? Just because you don't think alike, doesn't mean is ignorance in a degree, although last time a check nobody has the concrete authentic statement as for any of the things discussed here, if so every poster is ignorant and the one with the "truth" is the what' "wise"?

all i know is that everyone has there own way of thinking, dressing, walking, talking, ect ect ect. but that is what makes this realm so interesting. i say lets just agree to disagree, and let it all go. n e ways i have to agree with the plane of goths getting hi-jacked my Ronald McDonald. that would be funny to see.

Not sure about hijacked, but has been a growing trend for a long time, and I don't think its going to go away, only grow more.
At Last,....freedom!

Labels are that....just labels. It is how we view ourselves is all that matters and that we are happy with who and what we are. Who really cares what others think?

I think its a growing and staying trend.

I can see how it works be degree of emergance, From Custom, to Costume.

As if the fashion is built upon interpretation alone, that defies the trend label. Yet at a lesser ( not least) degree. Strip a Society Lady of her clothing, and shave her head.. she will still represent her Society.

Goth was hijaked by elitism and sold into trend slavery. Goth started out as Anti. Anticonformity, antifashion, antipopular. And then itbcame the fashion, the popular. People began saying "this is" and "this isn't," "that is" and "that isn't"...."Goth" And when that happened they put borders on it. They began making cookie cutter molds of what the elitists called: "Goth." Then you had to conform to an image, a pattern, a way of being something that had no boundries or patterns to begin with. you could not be "Goth" unless you subscribed to the label and did what other "Goths" did. That is when "Goth" became hijaked by the Elitists and sold into slavery. And there is really only one way to set it free.

If a person wears a certain type of clothes because the like them, or enjoys a certain mindset or culture or a certain lifestyle, why would they worry about it being wide spread. If a person wears certain clothes to demonstrate they they are independent and don't follow the crowd, they any style will do as long as it is different than what most others are wearing.

Surely it entirely depends on your personal definition of 'goth'. Do you mean the clothing trend towards black and dark clothing made popular in the 70's and beyond? Do you mean a love of Gothic literature, art, music, architecture and the period of time? Each person has their own definition of who they are with their own rules as to why.

The term 'goth' hasn't been stolen/subverted by anyone because if you can't define it how can it be?

The whole idea of "goth" is self expression. As long as we have that and don't deny it to ourselves we are free. I don't care if you listen to metal rock or hiphop. I dont care if you wear bright colors or dark. I don't care if you are Cristian Hindu or just a spiritualist. Express Your Self. Most of the recognized "goth" steriotypes are that wer are dark and broody. I actually dont know many that aren't but they are out there. So because of a stereotype that we ourselves perpetuate, are we then to try and force it on the ones that aren't and tell them they have to be to "fit in" It is easier to explain "goth" by what it is not than what it is.