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A curious phenomena I have observed within this forum, is the tendency for certain members to have quite strong aversion to topics they percieve as outside their own idea of truth.
It seems almost a puritanical stance (and I use this word to portray a strictness and inflexibility of belief akin to religious narrow mindedness) to a degree where any percieved belief in "farfetched " ideas is to be immediately obliterated from any potential readers mind.

I myself am sceptical to ridiculous degrees.
I will openly admit that I find it difficult to discern reality in any objective sense. I am aware of the fact, which leads me to believe not in open mindedness, but an eternal question mark surrounding absolutely everything.
This leads me to what we may call hypothetical debate or contemplation.

Concepts and ideas come "from the ether" and for the most part remain there.
Is it so wrong to indulge ideas merely for the value of contemplation alone?
Must ideas always be "true?"
Do these people have such small minds that they must be more economical with their ponderings?

Yes. A subject doesn't always have to be founded in facts to have merit.

One time long ago, I posted something I thought- a conclusion over the subject being discussed that I reached with my own intellect- and someone actually discredited what I thought because he wanted to know what website could back it up! I don't need a website to tell me what I think!

"stare long enough into the void and the void will stare back into you."

A website can do little to back anything up.

All a fact needs, is an initiator with charisma, and a sizable following.

A fact remains only until contrary speculations complete the same cycle.

A mystic is a person who is oblivious to the obvious, but understands nonexistance.

Elbert Hubbard

omit oblvious , insert" puzzled by"

misquoted in transit.

aaah. Interesting quote.

I have been looking further into this.

thank you.

"We're all fucked. It helps to remember this."
George Carlin (St. George)

Its not that certain subjects are shot down because of none belief in them, or bias toward them...

Its the fact that many that post those certain threads do little to no research before posting such threads. Just to post a thread for status and point value is not a worth while cause to post a thread. Those certain individuals out there really have little to no clue what they are talking about and usually as the case goes, the threads get the sarcasm and brutality that comes with open ended threads such as those.

Most of the concepts are on the strong end, but othes...Such as roleplayer threads are brutally shot down without even a minute for the poster to come to their senses about what to write next. Since the roleplayer thinks that they may be able to base their supposed theory on a realistic basis when we all know the subject matter would never potentially happen because it would be physically impossible at times.

All in all, many whom just post to post, dont think before they post. Just subjects to throw our way... Just for the sake of it.

Dont get me wrong, we have had many wonderful threads here that have run very long courses and get RIPed because of their length. These threads are very worth while. Its just the younger crowd seemingly have little to no idea what the bloody hell they are getting at most of the time.

Why does a subject matter have to have hard core facts? It is our inquiring minds and imaginations that have created some of these threads and are based on opinion or belief. Do these need facts to back them up? No, all they require is a willingness to participate and make their thoughts known.

Some threads deteriorate when the thread becomes a testimony thread.

Or even a thread ripe with spectulation on how persacuted the posters are
for what they practice, or believe.

Fantastical based threads become nothing but " I am a wizard."

With replied like, " Yea I am a wizard too."

" around a question such as " Whats it like to you, being a wizard?"

the occasional, " That is secret wizard stuff."

I see so many journals on this site that are seeking readers to every testimony thread.. open invites to share spiritual perspectives. Yet their are few readers and posters..

When I post in the Forum it's my thoughts on the subject. It's a discussion after all.

I can understand the need for facts if what is being posted could cause one harm if not given the facts.

I understand what you are saying Dab in that sometimes when presented facts it opens up new areas for debate or discussion and it is a healthy outlet and good for our minds.

However in the other sense it is usually threads opened up on a thought or an idea and not necessarily a hard core fact but someone seeking answers to a question that they are seeking new ideas on to expand their thought processes.

More commonly a person wants to show boat their latest pet trend interest.

This draws attention not only from skeptics ( seeking evidence) but believes
( noting piety) as well.

Such threads are usually taunting, and the threads author seldom acknowledges any but unflincing support.

One can only imagine what purpose such a these serves.

I can understand your example above Dab and to what purpose do they have? However, if the thread is inappropriate content and holds no merit then Admin will RIA or RIP it.

My point I am trying to make is that everyone has an opinion or a belief and should feel free to express it regardless of what others may think.

Correct, among those who discuss, are those who rile debate, based upon the post of others. Opinions, opinions are refutable, some opinions are based
on beliefs ( often ammended beliefs). To request a person to provide a source is a peragotive of both those who share the opinion, or belief. As well as those who find it lacking in any substance.

Those who believe, pick apart the post of those who reason why they do not as well.

Kudos for the -DXD-, if skeptics aren't fulfilled with such topics then perhaps should leave the people that do feast on others take of the discussion taking place; after all their are rules: there are members that help as disposing the irrelevant topics out of the general discussion area of the forums, no matter how incoherent might seem to others, they have the same authority to press their conceptions as much as any other. But talking to them as they are in a lower case of acknowledgement/rationality of X variable is quite arrogant to no end, simply because everyone has a different standpoint and reason as for what they believe in any nonsense others might think. Is quite easy to remain silent if you don't correlate to subjects of less importance in your philosophy, I mean ranting or preaching won't do any less irritation than impression of your ideals. As for proof, who gives a damn about it, last time i check this wasn't a scientific debate or any of the sorts, is a simple exchange of perceptions of X topics. If people look to take others out of their platform, i don't think this is the place. For you Dabbler generally.

Believe it or not Dab that is the very reason why I like to come to the forums is the debate and the stating of facts as it helps to open my mind to new ideas or to give me a knowledge of something I did not know prior. So each side has it's purpose. To spark your imagination and thought processes and to share knowledge.

you once again fail to be coherent enough for me to reply Ilum.

Fair enough.

only those who fancy Above other common believers need " platforms", and pulpits.

To some that start threads, it is not to explore a topic, but to press the envelop. They want to gain above even other believers, if I was a believer ( and as a one time believer) I found such behaviour to be rather demeaning to those less sensational believers.

discussing a belief fine, but grandizing some divine proclaimation, and saying.

" Has anyone else walked through their garage door*?"

Does not a thread make, plenty of Journal enteries start off the same, and how few read, and post in them.

If it is for church you gather, then open the doors to those who wish to share.

If you want to school others.. then invite people to be schooled.

It is not only skeptics who "tear into such theads" it also studied believers.

What I am also curious about is intention.

I feel that certain members either play devil's advocate for the hell of it, or enter threads with the sheer intention of provoking backlash. It becomes a bickering drone that one must wade through.

I suppose my method of avoiding threads that just do not interest me, is a method that is overlooked by some.

They seem to find ideas themselves so offensive that they must overtly deny them.

Before I post, I ask myself some questions.

Will my post contribute to the thread?
What is the motive of my post?

On another tangent:

"Burden Of Proof

The claim that whatever has not yet been proved false must be true (or vice versa). Essentially the arguer claims that he should win by default if his opponent can't make a strong enough case.

There may be three problems here. First, the arguer claims priority, but can he back up that claim? Second, he is impatient with ambiguity, and wants a final answer right away. And third, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

For example, you can't prove that God does not exist, therefore he does."

with debate of this nature, naturally this makes sense. If debating is for the sake of debate *alone*...not for deeper understanding in itself.

Appearing right seems often to be more important than coming to any actual realisation.



***excuse my poorly executed post. I am not in any shape to be posting here today. =S***

AA I think you did a wonderful job with the post and truly liked how you stated it.

I don't open my beliefs to debate. They're my experiences and I wouldn't let anyone demean my life experience. Especially on the internet where, people who claim to be intelligent, can't even spell correctly enough for me to understand what they're saying.

I think that if you have personal experience in a matter, no one has the right to belittle you for it. If they do, shame on them. Because, they probably don't know anything more than something you can read in some book.

~DeadlyxDesire~ states: "However in the other sense it is usually threads opened up on a thought or an idea and not necessarily a hard core fact but someone seeking answers to a question that they are seeking new ideas on to expand their thought processes."

I reply with: You mean the need to feed their fantasy world where they can be the roleplaying dungeon master of their own game within the real world? I dont think so. It is those kind fo threads that seem to mock what a thread should be about. learning information pertaining to real world scenerios, not a roleplayers guide to the universe of their own minds.

The Rave in my perspective is a place for real world resources and a directory for information from those resources. Not some fantastical roleplayers site. Correct me if I am wrong, but is this not a site about real world views and not just another RP side save for the status leveling? I think the added level system is just there for the addictive "stay on this site" reason alone.

Not to change the subject, so I will continue where I started...

Most threads on here cry out... "Read me please, I think I know what I am talking about." Or "read me please, because I added a link to my so called theory of..."

Not to mock the truly gifted threads, but some are just beyond rediculous and should be RIPed the moment they pop up instead of feeding those who think this site is mainly an RP site.

" Lets pretend this is real."

That is how a hypothetical thread is started. That is an exercise in imagination. I personally implore peaple to exercise their imagination.

But when, " This is real, (I think, or have been told) so what do you think of what I believe about it?" Rather loaded, No?

I, myself, have on a number of occassions made a post based wholly on a series of hypotheical possibilities that might occur to me. I form the question(s) of the topic out of those ponderences. Sometimes it is just pure curiosity that will inspire a forum thread from me.

Now, if a thread is made that tries to argue something that is a factually based, and their question is along the lines of do you believe this is possible or not, then I think the responses should have factual basing as well. They shouldn't in that circumstance be opinion based.

Yes, there are many on this forum who just like to shoot down other people's opinions. This is why a haven't posted any new threads in a while. There are, furthermore, people who post responses to topics just so they can post an opposing view. Playing devil's advocate is one thing, and can be a very helpful and needed thing, but some of the people on here simply post to bash other people's views.

Some topics need to be handled in a black and white way, for instance, if someone were to try to argue if the moon has an atmosphere or not. The answer there would be an easy, "no".

But if the topic at hand is all subjective then a wide variety of responses should be expected. Although I do believe that it is wrong, under such circumstances, for any respondent to voice their opinion and then make a blanket statement afterwards condemning anyone with an opposeing view point.

I would assume that the moderators are expected to remove such responses for such condemnation, because all those posts do is lead the thread widely off-topic. I would think that would be what a moderator is supposed to do, even if his/her own veiwpoint matches that of the individual doing the condemning.

That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Soulshroude...I am not saying that those threads should be encouraged at all..if you read above that you will see where I stated that if it is inappropriate then it is up to the Admin to RIA or RIP it.

Believe me those threads that you are referring to I usually do not even post on those as they are fantasies of someone's mind.

Yes ~DD~ I read said post, but was simply clarification for the others on the Rave that "just dont get it."

Had to clear that one up.

I think that's one of the good things about this website, is that you can debate and discuss things that sound completely ridiculous and farfetched. Most of these discussions never reach any sort of conclusions anyway, it's mainly for fun I think.
It is good to have an open mind, but bad to accept any of these ideas or theories as truth.

Debates have been going on since the dawn of man and will continue long after we are gone.
No one perspective will ever change the world entire. Never has, never will. Because every one is unique, different and individual.

Hypothetical means it is agreed that the subject matter is fabricated for the intent of " what if" there for it is a moot conclusion.

Statistics can prove anything, science can prove that it is impossible for a bumble bee to fly, and nobody can prove that love is more than a chemical reaction that takes place in the brain. Therefore all of the research and sources in the world cannot be used to "prove" an opinion.
People too often mistake facts for the truth. Truth is universal, facts are simply information that has been rearranged to match the hypothesis that someone set out to prove.
Let the debates continue, let the opinions open up entire lines of communication here.
While true, we might not find all the answers, we might find that kernal of a truth that changes or clarifies something. And if someone shows themself to be an idiot then allow them that right.

Ideas come from our imaginations. I don't believe something has to be true to have face value. Our ideas and dreams have merit and are real in our minds. Discussing them can be entertaining, it can be a learning experience, it can make you smile, it can make you think.

It's better to have ideas than beliefs. Rufus says so. ;)

Ideas can be the pathways to faith (belief), or doors that open us up to truths that we had been taught we should believe.
Believing isn't an evil thing. Being told that we must accept those beliefs without question, without ideas, that is the evil.

I have always found myself believing in the Solipsism theory: the self is all that you know to exist. "I think, therefore I am" Everything can be questioned or found faulty to a certain extent, theories based on theories become 'facts' to mankind. Questioning everything has made me doubt almost everything, anything can be the truth but nobody has 100% guarantee. Our truth is based on that which is most commonly believed. Basically, our beliefs are partly formed from what others believe, but do they really matter? I think not. Nothing can be entirely prooved nor can they be entirely disprooved, our beliefs are the only thing that matter.

I disagree to a degree to believe any debate is hypothetical, the exchange of messages indirectly promotes something in a individual, even if you found yourself a debate where people exchange various beliefs, you can see a growth in one or both of recipients, not also alluding the other viewers which could turn a light in a direction of thinking or acting. I am a firm believer in the indirect messages one can adopt by this source of influence, and many wake up from a reality they believed was set in stone.

While it is almost undoubtable all beings exist, but is the information we provide true? Some things are not as we percieve them, some are. A foundation of beliefs upon beliefs, believed by most people or a 'professional' is considered factual. There are many ways to proove things exist, but just as many ways to disproove them arise. Who is to say what is right and what is wrong, what exists or doesnt? We all base our facts on how we percieve them. Despite most attempts, there is always a question that revolves around one thing or theory leaving the possibility that it may not be true. A good example would be religion, history based on beliefs upon beliefs (none of which are prooved 100% correct), sometimes distorted by things such as humans themselves. Whos to say any divine being truly existed? We judge things we as we want them to be. A small religion is a cult, something often shunned or disapproved by the majority of society, but a large religion is just religion, approved by most. At one point that religion was a 'cult', highly persecuted for their beliefs because the ones persecuting them believed they were wrong. Mankind will always question everything, but in the end we all decide to believe what we want. Never based upon truth or 100% factual evidence, there will always be doubt in everything, we may never know the exact truth, we only choose the most logical or aprooved theories and hope that they are what we percieve them to be.

Those seeking for the truth will find it eventually, It how it works in the universe. Its why you go on a interest on finding the truth that first takes you to the journey of research and in time the possibilities will conclude that you will find a link that will tell you where you will have to discern, Those who dismiss everything by just closing, will just have that influence always,- of not acquiring anything because they want to remain ignorant to the given idealization. They will say you are crazy, delusional, lunatic, all sort of things without knowing at first hand something because they closed the line of influence/experience. Those who remount on understanding vampires(for example in this website) will look for ways to investigate in any way where it rooted, how it came to be, research everywhere by many points, and the universe will place you in positions that you will acquire it. This is a prime example of this, where you get ideas you never got before somewhere else and you learn by others influence, now with fresh puzzles you could look for other new puzzles and in time have a whole frame, and in time have a whole picture. It will not guarantee you 'Edward Cullen' or turning you into a 'vampire' but at least finding mysteries unsolved by ignorance if we talk in looking for veracity in vampire "lore".

To each his own I suppose. We all have our beliefs, I simply believe we must and will always question things in our life, it is human nature to question and wonder. while we can proove things to be facts, theres always a possibility that something isnt what it seems. While others, yes they are in a state of denial and refuse to seek or give thought to ideas that arent their own. Other people constantly inquire and will eventually get the answer they were seeking.

I love how this site's forum gives you constant mental stimulation, always a new perspective to be seen.

I agree with SG.
Suppose I came to this site looking for more than role play. Suppose I seek inspiration.

How could I possibly find it in a debate that contains no imagination, only facts?

Seems to me that the very name of this site sparks imagination and debate. I do not presume to be as as intellectual as most. Intellect is not everything. Stop and smell the roses. Enjoy a good debate, such as this.
Any debate that makes you think to yourself, "hmmm. I see your point," is invaluable to me.
Stay away from topics you don't like and leave the rest of us to our imaginations.
No disrespect intended.