I'm not trying to be funny or thinking that this is some kind of game. But someone had ask me, when you hear the term blood sucker, what do you think about and along with that, they also asked me about the words vampires do they have soul?
Now can someone help me out here so that way I can tell them?
Throughout history when one group has sought to target for destruction a minority within an otherwise civilized society, the method used to accomplish such is always the same: vilify them until they are considered first a public nuisance and, ultimately, a public enemy so as to justify their persecution, their prosecution, and... if fully successful... their eventual slaughter. Whether we speak of the Crusades, in which the Muslims were vilified, or the Jews prior to the Holocaust, or the far more recent genocidal slaughters and atrocities of Rwanda and continuing on even today in parts of Africa and elsewhere in the world, the methodology never changes.
And the same where the "vampire" was concerned. As I have pointed out quite often, the first-ever usage of the term "vampire" (as the Slavic "Upir") was in a 1047 CE handwritten reference by an Eatern Orthodox Christian priest... who used the term specifically to refer to... himself. As should be glaringly apparent, the actual meaning and understanding of the term "vampire" (Upir') originally meant something quite different and certainly not at all objectionable in the 11th Century. Yet by the 18th Century, 700 years later, the term had been demonized to the point that the "vampire" was pretty much the complete anti-thesis of its actual meaning. In 1047 CE, a "vampire" was a mortal, crucifix-wearing, God-serving Christian priest... yet 700 years later the "vampire" is, instead, an immortal, crucifix-fearing, Satan-serving, blood-sucking, evil revenant.
Quite the change, huh?
As I have also pointed out repeatedly, the bloodsucking/blooddrinking "trait" of the "vampire" did not even appear until after post-Renaissance period Slavic peasants began digging up corpses believing them to be "vampires" and ignorantly concluding that the decomposition fluid (resulting from the liquification of the internal organs) inside the corpses was, in fact, blood. They illogically concluded therefrom that the corpses must be rising from the dead and drinking blood... even though prior to this conclusion not a single vampire "victim" had ever reported their "attacker" as drinking their blood.
Thus, the blood-drinking trait was invented out of ignorance and illogic, thus further horrifying and scaring the populaces of the time... which is, of course, the purpose of vilification, after all. And the results are also recorded in history as whole villages believed to be populated by "vampire" families... men, women and children, were subsequented driven from their homes and many hunted down and slaughtered.
In the same manner were "witches" (another term that originally was a positive one) were likewise vilified, persecuted, prosecuted, and slaughtered.
Getting back to the "vampire" of history, the obvious question needs to be asked: If the "vampire" of history was not actually "attacking" people to drink their blood and, thus, causing peasants to dig up corpses in the first place, then for what were peasants originally hunting them? For what, exactly, were these supposed "vampires" originally being accused? Should anyone be curious, you will find the answer at my profile together with the actual historical proofs documenting it all.
- Upir'
I have never considered that, Upir.
Are you suggesting that peasants were digging up vampires to use them as an aphrodisiac?
?! No... ThothLestat... of course not.
They were digging them up because they had previously believed, obviously due to an earlier vilication, that these hyperorgasmic males were rising from the grave. Then, upon digging them up and seeing what appeared to them to be corpses filled with blood, they added to the earlier lie that they rose from the grave the additional trait that they must also be draining blood from their female "victims"... in addition to having sex with them.
Over time and due to the Victorian Age's abhorrence of sexual overtones in its literature, it was only the later vilifications of them rising from the grave and drinking blood that was passed along into such stories as "Dracula." The original trait that started it all... the one that preceded the vilifications designed specifically to try and scare women away from these hyperorgasmic males... was, thus, excised (exorcised? hehehe) from all further mention.
- Upir'
... Thus... my final point being (as I don't know if it was clear in my earlier post)... that only the lies and vlifications remain and the original truth that started it all... was removed due to Victorian and Puritan asexual sensibilities.
Hence... like them... the vampire was also made... asexual.
- Upir'
oh, okay.... thanks for the clarification, Upir.
To keep them from rising from the grave, were the bodies burned or impaled on stakes? Or did that behavior come much later?
Thanks for the follow-up question...
As they seemed to be digging them up specifically to destroy them or otherwise keep them from supposedly rising again... kinda makes sense that the disinterring and then staking/burning/mutilating/beheaded occurred contemporaneously.
I think people that seek to be the main focus, of every social occasion, a drain on a collective.
Got that backwards.. Blood Sucker, I think Leech, vampire, I think a social drain.
To be honest, when I hear the term blood sucker, it reminds me of a leach, or mosquito. Nothing to do with vampires at all.
I think of Blood Sucker as being either a leach, or mosquito, or an ex who bled me dry.
I was going to mention ex's, but thought against it as it may have been irrelevant due to slight misrepresentations in the long run. But hey, go with the flow.
Slight misrepresentations...? I don't understand...but then maybe I am being pedantic lol
Did you say nothing to do with Vampires at all.....
In my country the term is often used. As is the term 'I like to go with the flow' This can occasionally mean 'I like to collapse when I am having a wee'! Well in my inner circle it does...
Also a lawyer and Barrister, money lenders are often known as bloodsuckers... : )
I guess that I am attempting to say that Bloodsucker to me doesn't mean vampire!
Hmmm, slight mis-interpretations would be better suited here.
As well as the conotations of lawyers "sucking" something out of the individual, I think this would be "pride." All metaphors aside for a moments time, no... in my perspective, blood sucking has little if anything to do with the vampire. Though the definition of "vampire" is such a broad term.
back into the multy layers of the thread question. do vampires have souls?
As fiction shows vampires have evolved, if your sample is an earlier vampire model, then I would suggest that vampires were implied to have no soul.. or a soul not their own.. as a vampire was something of a possessed vessel.
To be damned without a soul was the price for immortality.
as vampires became more contemary, the writers involved more emotions, which would suggest they possess a soul (tormented perhaps, but a soul "intact").
White Wolf suggest that vampires lack a soul, but they have a tamperal entity ( a fraction of a soul).
And yet, in the new mainstream.. As in, those who would spell the distinction with a "y", would claim the vamp"y"re to have a soul. Thereby shunning the old whimsical demonization for an apparent "psi" (psychic) quality more in tune with the soul aspect of the metaphysical energies and or qualities.
This is where ~Infernalmages~ thread "Vampires and Magick" would come into play over the vampire and energy debate.
So "vampire" gets drained by trendsters, and fadist?
The attempt to hijack the word, swerves back and forth over the literary, and metaphysics line.. as if those who adopt the word vampire are somehow above those that are content with the literary vampire, and those who assume theatric persona as vampire.
As if to appear mature one cannot admit to make pretend.
That sucks..
In an nutshell, ~Dab~. I believe you put the nail into the coffin, in this case. Those who would suck anything metaphorically for their own gain, whether it be for psychological value, or peer priorities, have nothing to gain in the end save for slight accomplishments that their parents could hang on their refrigerator for the sake of confidence as in "good for you."
Any type of showboating will suck an individual dry, or the use of notable titles for slanderous ways. Someone needs a shuttenjager.
Heh! I think of chupacabras and greys zeta reticulants if its not inclusive or related in some way.
I think of this term as a flea, and a leech any animial that sucks blood.
Vampire is the last to come to my mind.
Bloodsucker makes me think parasite
Vampire makes me think of sparkles
lol that was a joke
Vampire makes me think of the word Nosferatu
I think blood sucker is demeaning to those who are psy and demeaning in general. Not all Vampyres "suck blood" they make drink blood from a wine class or however they receive blood if they are a Sang Vampyre.
Vampyres are people like everyone else therefore Vampyres have a soul, life, families etc.
When i hear blood sucker i think of leeches and mosquito's and my employer and generally anyone trying to use people for their gain...
To my understanding vampyres only take from accepting donors even psi they know how much to take without harming.
Maybe in past it once referred to vampires through hollywood but we have evolved and I believe the word has taken on a new meaning...
When I think of blood suckers I think more along the lines of animals and insects. The Vampire Bat, Mosquitoes... that sort of thing.
Everyone is forgetting about ticks. There is a true bloodsucker.
Seriously though when I hear bloodsucker I think of fictional vampire stories.
Okay now I live in a wonderful state, Minnesota, and when I hear the phrase Blood Sucker, I think of our lovely state bird the mosquito... I have never thought of vampires in relation with that label. Mosquito's and leeches yes... vampires no...
If there is anything I have learned in life it is this people are ignorant and dumb.
the term blood sucker reminds me of mosquitos and vampires, they are the first 2 things i think about as i am intrested in vampires and im allergic to mossies
sophiaofwny, how does people being "ignorant and dumb" fit anywhere in this thread?
I don't think I have ever thought of the term with vampire, though I am aware some do. Personally I think of a "blood sucker" as a person who drains you either financially or emotionally. I use the term in that context on a regular basis.
I think of leeches, mosquitos, and old vamp movies. And zombie, vampyre is the old spelling for vampire. It's not an english word so you might have trouble finding it if you looking in english sources.
blood sucker makes me think of leeches, in both the little worm thingys and people (meaning someone that would live off of someone else's livelyhood).
IE that blood sucking jerk lived off his gf for 2 years never getting a job.
I think of my ex-boss. Who told me the day of my interview that he could care less about the people he represents and only wanted their money!!! Yes, he was the quintesential shark of an attorney that you read about in books......thank god I don't work for him anymore!!!!!!
I have to agree with the majority lol I think of leeches, mosquitoes, exes and family members who think your a walking atm!
As for people who ask you such questions, well I always tell everyone to go google it and come tell me what the answer was.
When I hear the term "bloodsucker", immediately I think that this is extremely disrespectful and rather inconsiderate of a unique group of individuals that have a serious medical concern. In fact it rather sends me sideways a bit and makes me want to whack someone.
Additionally I am quite sure that vampires have souls... I can't tell you how I know that and I won't justify this posting nor will I discuss it. That was silly...
Chela
I agree it is generally used as slang, in disrespect
a bit like "chinky, nigger" or "honky"
If you want to post it well don,t be upset when I called you "Kattle ketchup sandwhich".
Is any body gonna post after this or what?
cluck cluck cluck...
or is it moo moo moo?
See i am getting a clearer picture of your idealism fallingstar.. you are drunk on your own idealism, and idealism that places you as a predator.. that you obviously are not, though you have been a victim. You assumed a role that puts you in a mental over position.
You betray yourself by insisting that people are attempting t5o usurp your ideal persona.. all the while you bash others that have an admited novel intrest in something you insist to be "sacred".
You are desperate to muck this thread for that very reason. your hyper behavior is very telling.. you are draining (pun intended) the thread.
Attempting to kill it to avoid others getting a clear picture of what a majority of those who profess to be vampires are intent on accomplishing.
Dab, thankyou for your insight into my persona...
namely, I am desperate to muck this thread up...
nope, it was just offensive ...
I politely and with more than a lil humour pointed out the way some kin might view it...
I forgive you a lack of understanding which is only natural when you don,t shake daily.It would be unreasonable of me to expect you to understand that which you had not experienced.
Kind regards TFS.
To suck, has negative conotations. the only way to make it more derogitory would be to call them blood suckies. You don't suck your beer, your milk, or your pop.
You drink it. Sucking blood implies infantilism, or submission/domination displays in animals and humans.
Vampires are traditionally a thing of fear and power... so infantilism and submissive seam demeaning. It's all in the head... if you are not confidant that you are not inferior... then such words will bother you.
Personally, I got no problem with the term, although it implies a certain strawlike quality to the teeth, which, I'm pretty sure, no conversation on this forum has ever revealed in anyone.
Following this and other post by you FS, it is a reasonable conclusion. The adoption, and adaptation of such a creature as vampires is metaphorically obvious.
Perhaps not to an intense degree, but certainly a factor in your underlying intent.
So perhaps I have given you a rally point to interspect your ideals.
when i hear that term personaly i think of bats the chupa cabra and masquitos..just saying.
I was just looking through the database, I saw the term bloodsucker used in context of vampires in a description of a movie. Must not be such an alien idea.
Dab, you certainly make me think and your interllect is not lost on me.
As for reflecting upon my own ideals and posts,mmm yes and it's appreciated.
Moreover, taking it personally and the subconcious reasoning behind some posts, "why should I care" flashes up...
I have considered this overnight and in the great scheme of things it does not, furtermore we will never be recognised for various religious and political reasons. Ater debating the issue with my kin I have given up my idea of recognition or respect, in favour of glistening skin and blood suck-ing.
Thankyou for making me think.TFS.
reminds me of parasitic creatures that need blood constantly to live: mosquito, leech lamprey and so on