I have read post that allude to Historic groups that practiced Blood Rites, although it was not mentioned that the nomiclature "Vampire" was attached to those groups.
Perhaps some practice Vampirism, through rites, inspired by Historical accounts of such groups.
Does practicing vampirism, make one a Vampire?
What dergees are there of Vampirism?
In post made by people who profess to be Vampires,
there is a consistant notation of "fake" vampires, vs "real" vampires.
Is it rational to inquire what source a professed Vampire bases their personal conviction on?
I agree Dabbler, if someone is going to propose that they are a "real" vampire, what makes one a "fake" vampire?
Where's the evidence other than being on a "vampire" website and claiming to drink human blood and have "powers" (that no one seems to want to provide scientific proof for anyway).
Even before evidence "proof" is requested, a summary would be benifital to those who are sincerly intrested in what some are convinced makes them a vampire.
It took me a while on this site to see how those who practice vampirism, are lumped in with those who profess to be Vampires in a literal sense.
It is evident that people practice vampirism, this most people can grasp, if those who practice harm none, or don't seek to intimadate others with their practices, and or beliefs.
To claim to be a Vampire, is not a belief (faith without evidence) it is a conviction, anyone who professes to be a vampire, and to have a Vampire Physiology is subject to others that Profess to be Vampires calling them on their convictions.
There is a concrete description to what everything is. What makes one a vampire seems no different. There should be something set in stone. Thus, no confusion.
And I do believe there is. But it's something that is difficult(or maybe currently impossible) to prove scientificly. If you cut through all the different reasons people give for bieng a vampire, and find the few similarities, you'll see one thing that is always there and others that are ussually there. The one thing is what I believe makes on a vampire, while the other's may or may not be traits that might be enhanced by being a vampire. The one thing would be the actual physical or mental need to feed on the energy or blood of others in order to stay healthy. (notice I didn't say to live, as a vampire won't die from not feeding, just weaken) The other "maybe" traits seem to be enhanced spiritual or mental capabilities.
Dabbler, before I place a post in direct regard to your post here in the forum;
Please accept this virtual handshake as you have once again put an intellectual and compelling point to ponder out here.
Regardless of the tread(s), it is this type of “old school VR purpose and post” that keeps even those who doubt around and learning, reading and wondering, researching and evaluating. Thank you,
Guidacarta Di Nerezza
While it is far below me to spread the false ideologies of the vast majority in hopes it will sell someone on who or what a vampyre / vampire is or isn’t; there are cultures throughout historical record who do and have practiced ‘blood rites - rights’ in a very general and generic term.
Not all, in fact, few have ever been declared “vampire / vampyre” as an identity to their culture as a whole. I.e.: The facts are in as far as the Mayan and Inca cultures, which both had blood sacrifice. In both, the taking or ingesting of the sacrificial blood; be it of the human or animal would be by definition a vampire / vampyre trait or acknowledgement at the very least. The fact these practices where part of the whole of the culture based in modern view or thought as (religion, faith, belief) gives their use and application of the rights an embodied empowerment or strength.
Note here that there is no mention of turning into anything, growing of fangs, hanging upside-down in a cave creating vampire / vampyre guano or anything remotely close to those more modern fantasy’s created by outstanding authors and movie directors.
India has long been another place where culture or cultural practice has left a marker or two of many tribes, bands or peoples who have taken part in blood rites - rights. Not to mention periods of history ranging from Aboriginal to Scandinavian and even Native American. (The list does go on, but not here. For more specific’s please use websites and search engines such as: http://www.nationalgeographic.com or http://www.google.com and search records and achieves on blood rites -rights, cultural religions, beliefs and practices and alike. While these articles and papers may or may not have exactly what one is looking for, they do open doors to further ones knowledge.)
As a personal thought, and not to be misunderstood as a documented fact, it has been a theory of mine that the nomadic movements of the human species carried and further adapted a version of a general acceptance from their direct roots or origin.
Some will claim there is no scientific proof of a vampyre / vampire. This too is another controversy due to semantics rather than acceptance. Some will say, specific to science, that a vampire / vampyre “must” have a blood need. In my humble opinion, this is not an accurate portrayal. As I understand it, it has never been shown that a “real” vampire / vampyre require the blood of a human being to continue an existence. It becomes a matter of choice, practice and participation. (On that note, for those who do “let” or are planning to: Please keep in mind vampires / vampyres are not and have not ever been immortal in the same body or shell. We can and do die. Those who let should know their donors personal history as diseases such as HIV, AIDES and Hepatitis can and will affect you, possibly profoundly. There is NO substitute for precaution and safety.)
Some in the sciences will end their view by claiming a vitamin or mineral deficiency of some kind or other. While others will involve the sciences of psychology and state that the need or desire to be vampire / vampyre is solely within the personal opinion of the individual. Few will take into consideration the whole of the person who is or is not vampire /vampyre and accept the simplest truth they share: That is he or she simply is what he or she claims to be without isolating a specific gene or atom within our physiology. (Somehow, even in an educated mind I don’t see finding the “V” or Vampire / Vampyre chromosome like we have done with the “K” chromosome in identifying race base or genealogy…but I could be wrong!)
Sometimes a good series of questions such as your opens such a diversity of theory, opinion and thought that it actually does create its own set of circumstances. In this case, I’d say you’ve done just that! Again, Excellent and Thought Provoking!
To surmise my own two cents worth: A poser / fake vampire / vampyre is anyone who claims to be just that without accepting the truth of another’s view that they are in fact what they claim to be. This goes for those who let and don’t, PSI included. And to what level or degree one is or is not ‘real’ is solely dependant upon his or her own set of acceptances, truths and understandings.
in my mind we make our own reality what makes someone a vampyer is open to ones own interpretation thus the debate could go on forever
It is it reasonable to inquire what an individuals interpretation is?
Then why are some who profess to be vampires so critical of others who profess to be vampires as well?
Some people are just like that. And it's not just on this subject but any subject. There are always people like that. Would assume an entire societies opinion based on those types of people?
well I know people live the lifestyle, bloodlet/share with one another, and many other simular things that they feel makes them a Vampire, But does'nt that go for most or any lifestyle that is more implemented within their life. ?
I do not believe that there are real vampires today, BUT, I do know many live that lifestyle, and they even question people whom profes to be vampires, why? What makes one different from the other if all are practicing the same *techniques of Vampirism?*
I mean I know we all will die and can be killed, so what makes them think that they are truely different, from us mere Humans. ?
I mean why do they call them wannabes, and what can one do to show that they are a vampire even to the ones who say that they are and your not?
We are different, but still human. That doesn't make it a god difference though. If I had a choice.... I'd want to be a normal person, not a vampire.... But even if I live the life of a normal person, it wouldn't change what I am and I'd still feel the effects of not feeding.
Here, I presented an opportunity for those who profess to be vampires to step up to the plate and offer some educational insight into what they profess.. No takers..
To call "mundanes" ignorant, when such opportunities are ignored is very telling of the intent of those who profess to be "real vampires".
Maybe they're just tired of posting on this topic over and over. Especially since no matter how many people tell you about they're experiences and a summary of what makes them vampire, you seem to blow them off and continue to say nobody has stepped up to answer your questions.
Well i do see Dabbler's point of view and others as well. Sure there may be some people tired of seeing the same repetitive need to understand why one says this and the other says that, but really it doesn't help the situation if there are those making such claims and doesn't take the time to simply ANSWER it with a logical mind and response. We understand that you have this desire to let people know that you are what you are but i think Dab's , and maybe as well as others, are questioning YOUR claims and viewpoints to see some sort of validation or reasoning behind it that doesn't come off anything but human.
There is mostly beating around the bush type responses so far and nothing being stated as what upholds your convictions of yourself or what you are. It is all mere words.
I could sit here and claim to be a Goddess in threads but what good would that do except to grab attention and thus have people questioning me as to why i believe i am such and then it would be broken down and expected of me to explain it with a logical mind to satisfy the cravings of those trying to comprehend and learn of what i claim to be.
If the questions are being brought to the forefront, and a door opened for you to show what it is that others are so aggreviated with humanity about when those do not understand what makes you different than the norm, then why is there no one really stepping forward in other words?
There can be no hostilities or complaining about those WANTING to learn beacause that would make absolutely zero sense, but at the same time.....it might even help others to question themselves as to why they are defining themselves as such and maybe reconsider the alternatives.
I understand what your saying, and agree that vampires are still human and would never try to say they aren't, but I also see that it's really impossible to send any real proof other than personal experiences and a summary of what we believe makes us what we are. And personally I've seen others, and myself, say these things in response to Dab's questions, and we always get the same responses from him. Now I couldn't care less whether anyone believes I'm a vampire or not as the only reason I post what I think is out of boredom and because they ask, but I can see why others would just give up trying to talk to him on this subject. No offense to you Dab, but I don't see much of an open mind towards those answering your questions. I'm sorry if I sound rude or such here, but I figure since you haven't had luck in getting the answers to your questions, I'd offer some advice to be a bit more open-minded and not so cynical. But again. this is just my opinion.
And really Sera....that's all one can do in forums is try their best to explain because it would be very difficult to prove otherwise such convictions without some other way of enlightenment. You are right about that. Words said can play a double-edged sword for questions are always going to arise and can be used and perceived many ways.
The only way for one's starving mind to be fed is by those claiming such, play the guinea pig in this situation and expose themselves up fully but by doing so would probably risk dangers, experiments, etc etc that others would probably fear depending on how "drastic" or "forbidden" the knowledge may be, and in the end, depending on our technology, as changing as it becomes over time, we may not have the capabilities to explain it fully or have the means TO believe such claims until we are able to figure it all out exactly.
I think this might be a case where science and the spiritual would have to come together unlike in the past lol
Very true, but what are the chances of that happening, especially since many would prefer we stay hidden?
In that case, there would have to be a confirmation of the one's that are i guess.....involved with such organizations of what should and should not be exposed but that is IF such existed. I am just tossing the ideas from my head atm as if maybe there are.
Not everything can be under one's control tho. If someone really WANTED to risk such a thing, they very well could do it but at the same time, people aren't going to believe or accept it up front , at least until things can be verified as proof.
One's determination would have to be strong enough to play the experimental rat in order to relieve the grief that is apparently given from humanity from the non-acceptance.
Thak you PSI Vamp,
I keep losing post content before I post.. so i am a bit perplexed..
To educate others about a personal conviction ( those who profess to be phsyiological vampires are convinced, it is not a belief.) it is ideal for them to have previous available research, some material that a curious person can read (in absence of testimony of personal experience).
When a fraction of those who profess to be physiological vampires repeatedly denounce others of being.. wanna-be's.. pretenders.. etc.. it lends to suspicion that there exist a criteria to base that exclusion on.
How often do we hear in threads, "Thats not what real Vampires are."
Personal experience is fine for those who already subscribe to a belief.. or ideal.. but when people present reasons why they don;t share that ideal, it is nothing person, yet the person who bases their case on personal experiences, it becomes a sore spot.
To educate
There will always be in every public venue people that genuinly seek to review what others subscribe to.
there will be people who accept a lesser degree that has a reasonable summary.
There will always be people who push ideals beyond concivable.
There comes a time when it appears a percentage of those who profess to be physiologically vampires
are doing so for questionable intent.
Even among those who subscribe to personal experience there is a continued effort to dredge their own ranks, and exclude others who base their convictions on the same "personal experience" default.
It took me sometime on this site to sift through and settle for two concepts relating to vampires, I am content with those. To be accused of being 'closed minded" concerns me in no way.. though the context in which it is used by some is rather insulting.
Sera is perfectly correct many prefer to keep quiet.
The general consensus is that we are ready for you but the you are not ready for us.
I think dab and others on Vr are ready but unfortuantely the world is full of religious nuts.
The last thing we need is to pour fuel on the extremists out there.
Anyway if we did show the world a thing or two you would just have sleepless nights so what's the point?
It would probably just lead to me being headhunted and having to go on the run....so if anyone wants us to show out they'd better get their cheque books out.LOL.
i agree dabbler,i dont think there is a way to tell wether one is a vampire, its more of just trusting your instincts.
i think the idea of vampierism is one of being nocternal,blood drinking and depending on the person the worship of satan
Trust me...we could show you...
Just bring some toilet paper.
fallen star Why the assumtion that people are intimadated by your professed identity?
I have heard, to one degree or another that society
is somehow scared to accept those who profess to be physiological vampires.
All one has to do is the math.
How universal is the ideal of Physiological Vampires actually existing?
How many people subscribe to such a concept as Physiological Vampires, and what complells them to be concerned?
Is vamperism as a practice enough? to use an anology if I was to walk into a packed stadium, and proclaim to practice christianity, many would strug it of as common, some may even relate in varying degrees, yet I would distance myself by professing to be an apostle.
Identity, especially something as far reaching as physiological Vampires roaming about is received on a case by case , especially when the support for the assetion is based on Conjecture, and Personal testimony. What would benift those who profess to be physiologically vampire is a consenus summary, this would also present a criteria for dispelling those who attempt to pass themselves off as "kin".
Benefit? As far as Ive seen there is none for coming out as a vampire. All you get is jokes and insults from people who don't know anything. Why come out in public for that? It's easy with someone beside you, but alone? Alone it's better to shut up and pretend to be normal...
~Seraconner~ seems to be setting her self symbol as a martyer of sorts: "many would prefer we stay hidden?"
This phrase is untrue. It is not up to the many to give others permission to come forward with their convictions, but up to the few to take pride in the fact that they are what they are.
It is also not a fact that the vampire prefers to stay hidden, this is an assumption or opinion based on what one has heard and read over the past several years to decades. But to claim what others speculate as being true is quite the assumption. The vampire is very open, they just don't talk about anything personal such as "feeding habits".
They couldn't really care less about who knows what they are. As they are really not interested in the politics.
I have been holding off posting in this thread for a very good reason. As most of the posts in here are by one individual who has taken a tenatious leap to think that they speak for an entire entity (community).
I was waiting for this individual to put their foot where their mouth is and it has been pointed out by one phrase, as read above in parenthesis.
I will post further when the time calls for it.
'From people who don't know anything.'
Their is no standard education available.
It always comes down to someones personal experiance.
It is still not clear how those who care convinced they are physiologically vampires can assess another person to be an "imposter".
So not knowing anything (aside from conjecture) is
relative to those who profess to be physiological Vampires.
How simple it would be to set up a test, to gauge the "abilities" claimed by those convinced they are physiological vampires.
someone mention "instict' allows one to "sense' an "imposter', this too could be assessed for accuracy by a simple study.
Before someone goes of on science.. and what science can, and can not do.. I simply suggest a means for those with such convictions to confirm (to themselves, and others) what they so desire others to subscribe too.
That was a bold accusation SS. I never claimed to speak for the community. Hence I said "many" as in "not all". I can say this as I know many a person, both vampire and not, who wish we would all stay hidden. Am I saying that this means each and every vamp should hide? Not at all. Just saying what I've noticed many would like us to do.
Dab, what I meant by "people who dont know anything" are those that pick on others just because of what they are without knowing any facts about the person. Sorry for the misleading word choice.
So it is okey for those who profess to be physiological Vampires to be critical of others who profess to be vampires?
However, anyone else being critical is wrong?
How intresting when those who label others imposter,
are confronted in the same manner.
I only make accusations when I think they are precise and need to be pointed out. It is only you that seems to think they are a representative for the community with political lines such as "many", and "wish to stay hidden" thus gives your audience the idea that you are indeed presumably speaking for the whole and not just yourself. Did you ever claim to be a part of the "community", or are you simply representing yourself as a proclaimed vampire, and if you are representing yourself as an independant then why are you so tenatiously adding your two cents then countering others posts trying to prove your convictions?
As well, you still have yet to answer the nature of the thread. Instead, you have skirted aside and have added politics where a simple question was asked.
"Does practicing vampirism, make one a Vampire?
No.
What degrees are there of Vampirism?
Depends on if we are discussing HLV (Human Living Vamp"y"res) or vampires in general?
In post made by people who profess to be Vampires,
there is a consistant notation of "fake" vampires, vs "real" vampires.
Is it rational to inquire what source a professed Vampire bases their personal conviction on?"
Yes. You will not learn anything otherwise.
As far as this post:
"Dab, what I meant by "people who dont know anything" are those that pick on others just because of what they are without knowing any facts about the person. Sorry for the misleading word choice."
Though I am not going to flame anothers post, I would just like to know why someone would be worried about what other think. The phrase "picking on others" reminds me of a grade schooler complaining about a bully or something. What if those who were trying to debate the testimonies of others, actually had experience in the field that was being debated and knew the "facts" and thus continue the debate?
This post is not about one individuals convictions, but the basis of where those convictions come from. Vampirism is quite a large topic and thus, the ailments or "symptoms" of the vampire are not just condusive to one individual, so the statement "without knowing any facts about the person" remains irrelevant in my perspective, since they are playing on a representation of an group entity, and not just themselves.
SS I never said I represented the community. I only speak from personal experience and observations. I've made this quite clear already. And I add my two cents because much can be learned in debates so I enjoy them. As for the post you mentioned... I was having a childish emotional moment and did not word my thoughts the best I could... and at the moment I'm not sure what I was trying to say.
SS may I quote you.
"The vampire is very open, they just don't talk about anything personal such as "feeding habits".
They couldn't really care less about who knows what they are. As they are really not interested in the politics."
If this were true why do so many keep asking us to prove it?
Answer...because none in our community will show what they can do.
I know someone who can change their eyes pitch black and that can bite you thus conducting waves of energy through your head until you do not care if you live or die.
Are you suggesting this is a meainstream phenomenon?
I haven.t seen it on youtube? thus Sera is correct, albeit by default....P.s. Sera...MuahX T.F.S.
I a a solitary sanguine no afiliations or associations other than the rave an a few othter sutes fi=or intr=eration and information. Those in covens and housese and uses havevns have therir own hierarcy and elders and politics and rituals. That's why I stay on the outside looking in,
~Fallingstar~, it was not I of who whom quoted "I know someone who can change their eyes pitch black and that can bite you thus conducting waves of energy through your head until you do not care if you live or die."
I have no idea where you got such claims from.
Though it did occur to me that another member on here posted the same thing regarding your apparent ability to turn your eyes black. So my question to you is the same regarding your youtube comment.
"If this were true why do so many keep asking us to prove it?
Answer...because none in our community will show what they can do."
My asnwer would be that none within the community either have the abilities to do so, or just don't feel like showboating for the entire world.
"Are you suggesting this is a meainstream phenomenon?"
Obviously you are since I said no such thing.
"I haven.t seen it on youtube? thus Sera is correct, albeit by default....P.s. Sera...MuahX T.F.S."
Of course you have not, because based on your words alone, you have yet to post a video giving your audience a view at your apparent "ability" of a black eye color change.
If you could, you would jump at the opportunity to say, "In your Face."
You are showing a the signs of a person who is out to impress others, in a venue that is already agreeable on, or indifferent to some fringe ideals, and practices.
You may impress your peers, but I wonder how you fair in person, I would venture to guess that the old, full
eye FX lense gag is getting over billed already.
SS and Dab I like your style and we hate to disappoint.
It seems to me that My friend and probably Sera want to be of assistance, but you need to get your cheque book out...
what yew think yew get it for free?
You obviously have ~Dab~ and I mistaken for someone who cares. Showboat all you wish. Just do it in front of a differant crowd. Your contradicitons astound me, which is why I replied in such a way as to correct your post.
If you think you have something to prove, then why not just post a video to maintain your confidence? Instead of post after post of subtle talk of "I can do this and that?" It is getting entirely old.
I get the whole yew sctick, would a Dominar please delete Fallenstars Post. apparently he mistook this thread for "Junior High Practices".
Thank you Dominars.. fallen Star please refrain from posting in this thread. your attempts to break the thread are evident.
I often wonder why one would want to become part of a community of people they just casually ridicule at any given opportunity.
Would you join a biker community if you couldn't ride a bike?
It also makes me knee jerk whenever I see posts that acquire an individual to provide evidential proof to the masses about certain beliefs.
You tell me why I should provide you evidence that I am a vampire? How would this provision benefit me? What improvement to my life are you going to make once I am safe in the knowledge that you actually believe me?
I ask these questions because it seems that the Vampire, who frequents this Vampire Rave community for freedom and relaxation from the normal mundane idiocy of life, is constantly having to justify their existence to the few who frequent these forums for no other reason than to spurt diatribes of thesaurus found words to enhance their pathetic egos.
A healthy scepticism is fine, that I can cope with but in the few months on here, every forum discussion seems to come down to the same arguments. It becomes a bore.
Idiocy of life, that implies that there is an education source. Something I have yet to see, all that is posted in the forums is "That's not what a "real Vampire is."
and .. "No one understands us."
It is okey for "real Vampires" to critique the claims of others.. what hypocrisy.
When one has nothing to support their assertions, they resort to such behavior.
Please consider posting a response to the thread, something those who profess to be vampires often overlook, here I am attempting to educate through inquiry.. and you repeat the "real vampire' montra.
I am willing to accept a Summary, in lew of "evidence". Upir presents his research, upfront!
Is it the intent of "real vampires" to simply imtimadate people, and then fail to follow thru?
"Would you join a biker community if you couldn't ride a bike?"
this is a moot concept, one that demonstrates elitist ideals.
While "real vampires" call others wanna-bes, while implying that they are more credible.. nothing about "the community" is appealing, or compelling.
This is also a Goth site, and a sci-fi site, so if you are not an alian you shouldn't be here?
The problem is dabbler is that you place us all in the same box, a stero-typical adjudication that is common amongst people who are metephorically speaking different.
I am happy to outline what makes me a vampire as I have done in other posts on the forum.
My point is, I do not need to present evidence because I have nothing to prove to "You" termed loosely to mean an enquirer.
I do not think of myself as elitist my friend, I am no better or no worse than another. I am.
If I do not manipulate energy then I get ill, the illness does not go away unless I take energy, Life force, chi, ki, prana etc within my body. The best way for me to get that is to drink fresh blood from a living being and animal is impractical because they cannot openly consent so I take freely from a human donor. When I consume the blood, or prana, it makes me feel exhilerated, warm, well, alive, colorful, strong, bold, like my own personal drug. I have problems that no health person can find a solution for not one, all symptoms exist and all tests prove negative, no doctor can help me.
For want of a better answer I call myself a vampire and I define myself as real because to me a fake vampire is a vampire that is portrayed through media of film or written word.
It is this proof that "they" exist I can except from anyone, to seek knowledge that these type of vampires are real is good.
But how can you say I dont exist, I am a vampire and I exist and I am typing a message to you so there is your proof. Want further evidence then tough, lifes a bitch, you wont get any further proof from me because I have no need to give it to you, because I have no need to be accepted by you.
Please note I refere to the term YOU as a whole not as an individual.
Thank you,
When I am presented astonishing assetions like Fallen Star makes, it is rational to request evidence to support claimed Physiologic manifastation.
I can have found Vampirism to be concivable, and I am getting the degrees, and sorting the reasonable, from the irrational. Vampires, from Vamp-liers. I don't care for people who profess to be Metal Heads that can't carry a topical exchange.
Careful LB that you don't shelter those who would
grandize their own delusions, at the expense of others integrity.
BTW in this thread, what instigated the request for varification was the assertion that someones eyes can turn completly black. Reaching claim, No?
Yes you are right with your last statement dabbler, I try not to carry anybody really but as far as my friends are concerened and I mean people who have taken time to get to know me and me them, I except them for what they are, delusional or not I guess for it is not for me to cast aspertions on others.
eyes go completely black you say?
That does not happen to me and a find the claim ludicrous really lol
But who am I to judge if someone says it happens to them then maybe it does.
It goes to perpetuate misconceptions, "mundanes" seek out such "stray" assertions to laugh at the less fantastical in a sub culture. Fall-out.
Dabbler profession of ones structure always seems to come play. Whether one follows the path of vampirism or not is no need of mine, for interpretation of a genre in society when there is so many more out that claims could be rebuttled against.
I structure my life on my own path much like others here on VR, a wide range thats why I have stayed here for so long. Diversity on structure and beliefs. I do not worry about others as i hope they do not worry about my life. Friends and family yet we know our place.
Want to be a Vampire good for you, want to be a sociology professor good for you. I am me and profess nothing for the rumblings of others who do not live my life can only remark at the life in which I choose.
To each their own.
Excellent question, Dabbler; another key issue to raise, another well-placed thorn to inflict into the sides of those preening to be actual "vampires."
To twist that thorn just a bit, since the true and literal point of it seems to have been largely lost on those here, permite me to ask a couple follow-up questions: Does one "practice" being Human, per chance? And is it through our "practices" that Humans are defined as such?
The point is simply this: Does not the verb (to practice) itself mean that one is temporarily donning a particular ... profession, interest, or sub-category of identity that is not their true foundational nature?
If one "practices" medicine as a doctor, or if one "practices" playing the piano (using a different sense of the verb, yet still just as applicable to this argument), or if one dons a fast-food uniform or that of any other profession and "practices" same... are not all of these simply "hats" being worn for a time rather than the true essence of who and what the person is?
Thus, if you "practice" something, then is it not true that you are not truly that something... but instead are simply mimicking such through such "practices"?
Again... does one "practice" being Human? Or do animals "practice" being who they are?
The issue I believe Dabbler might be raising here... the "thorn" he is perhaps deliberately introducing... is that if there are true "Vampires," then they are such by who they truly are in very definition and not by how they occasionally don such an identity to "practice" such via blood-drinking rites, "pranic" practices, or other forms of fictional vampire mimicry.
As Dabbler and others, including myself, have previously pointed out... if one truly believes in the fictional portrayals of "Vampires," one must acknowledge that the first and most foundational requirement for all such "creatures" is that they must first be ... dead.
Anyone actually dead here? If not... then you are all "practicing" and not truly being the Vampires of fiction, all of whom are ... dead.
After all... Death is not exactly something you can really "practice," now is it? ;)
- Upir'
My previous post was in regard to the practice of fictional Vampirism (e.g.., blood drinking rites, pranic practices, donning fangs, goth clothing and make-up).
Historical vampirism... that is, true "Vampirism"... is an entirely different topic ... for which, thankfully, no one has yet found ways of mimicking ("practicing"). Nor, of course, can they. *slight smile*
- Upir'
Those who argue about who is a "real" vampire and who isn't are missing the point. Just share common ground, get to know each other and find companionship.
"Just share common ground, get to know each other and find companionship."
Since when was the vampire ever about companionship? If one claims the fictional representation of immortality and its standards, then they woudl think the act of companionship was a moot point.
As well, the areas of the differant types of vampire, either with the "i" or "y", philosophies and or ways of life from either, would subject the individual into common grounds of either not caring about relationships or comradary, or on the other hand would deem the "practice" as a way of communication with the spouse or loved one with that "companionship" by getting them involved with the "energy" manipulation or what have you that deals with such "practices". But, this does not nessessarily make any of them "vampiric" since by definition in the fictional sense of the term has nothing to do with practicing anything.
The above could be what ~Dabs~ point was trying to make.
I belive th equestion was What is a real vampire? Well,thats simple. People like me,that have a rare blood disorder are what the stories are formed from. We have a disorder that requires us to have whole blood or yes we will weaken and very possibly die. I belive it is spelled celiac disesae symptom. Look it up. The horrors of this is something only those of us and Hollywood can imagine. Everything from excrusiating pain,to not being able to ingest anything other than blood. Sucks hu? So before you guys start assuming there is no actual proof of real vampires or going off myth,do reserch.
*Clears throat* Before any members start assuming that they are "real" vampires, ie "that have a rare blood disorder are what the stories are formed from."
Uh, no... If one does true research regarding actual vampires, they will find that the blood had absolutely nothing to do with the vampire itself, this is hollywood based from Bram Stokers Novella as well as the other fictional writers of that specific horror genre.
It was never about the blood, but about how the individuals sexual desires were compared to others surrounding them. I would read ~Upir's~ profile for more information on "actual" vampires. He seems to cover the lot of it all.
celiac disesae , if I'm not mistaken, is the body's inability to take in any form of glutens. It wrecks havoc on the bowls and Iron deficiency amemia can result if left untreated....but some how I fail to see how this condition classifies one as a vampire.
"Well,thats simple. People like me,that have a 'rare' blood disorder."
Hmm... I bring this post into questioning:
What Celiac Disease is, its "common" symptoms in adults and children, diagnosis, and treatment options such as gluten-free diets.
Adults
Celiac Disease may appear at any time in a person's life. The disease can be triggered for the first time after surgery, viral infection, severe emotional stress, pregnancy or childbirth. CD is a multi-system, multi-symptom disorder. Celiac Disease symptoms are extremely varied, can often mimic other bowel disorders and are not always gastrointestinal.
Children
Infants, toddlers, and young children often exhibit growth failure, vomiting, bloated abdomen and behavioral changes.
Symptoms of Celiac Disease May Include One or More of the Following:
Recurring bloating, gas, or abdominal pain
Chronic diarrhea or constipation or both
Unexplained weight loss or weight gain
Pale, foul-smelling stool
Unexplained anemia
Bone or joint pain
Behavior changes/depression/irritability
Vitamin K Deficiency
Fatigue, weakness or lack of energy
Delayed growth or onset of puberty
Failure to thrive (in infants)
Missed menstrual periods
Infertility male & female
Spontaneous miscarriages
Canker sores inside the mouth
Tooth discoloration or loss of enamel
The above material has been borrowed from: here
In conclusion, there is no supporting evidence that Celiac Disease is related in ANY way, shape or form to vampirism. As well, the disease is common enough that if so many individual could have this disease and call themselves vampire because of it, then we would have a mass pandemic of vampires amongst us... NOT bloody likely, pardon the pun.
I agree, Celiac disease is certainly nothing to do with Vampirism
I'm not saying that someone with a diagnosis of Celiac Disease is not a vampire but that not all Celiacs are
My mate has Celiac Disease and lives a full and normal life eating gluten free products he has never ingested blood and no medical doctor has informed him that he has too or else he'll die!!
Silly addition to a good thread
I guess alot of it does have to do with people's interpretations, If that is so i would really like to know what many ancient civilizations interpreted their vampires of their myths to be??
To me there is a very significant difference in Vampire vs. Humans,I stick to the deffinition of "Vampire" as it is listed in the dictionary. Vampiric practices is really only a fraction of what a true vampire is.
And with your "fake" and "real" vampire descirptions, should I believe anyone who says they are a vampire?
Like some who claim to be 200-1000 years old or those who have a characteristic of a vampire and claim to be 1?
So how can I take any of these claims as being real?
Good point raziel, from where i'm sitting i wouldnt ask you to
as long as the people who matter to me and care for me take me seriously then no one else really matters no direspect intended towards you raziel as you have a valid point. why should you, why should anyone here
"And with your 'fake' and 'real' vampire descirptions, should I believe anyone who says they are a vampire?
I wouldn't be so niave... Not saying that you are, just in general.
Like some who claim to be 200-1000 years old or those who have a characteristic of a vampire and claim to be 1?
If anyone claims to be over 100 years of age and vampire, then I would ask that they show me some proof such as a WWII Military ID, old war currencies that they have kept, since I am quite sure they would keep these things, old uniforms that were used from those specific eras as well as a birth certificate stating when they were born the first time around for legal reasons.
So how can I take any of these claims as being real?
It only takes a few instances to have someone provide valid documentations for such claims to be real. If they were naturally hundreds of years old, then their penmenship would match the era that they grew up in as well as ascent to match the location.
I think anyone who simply states such claims should give some proof, Thats what I meant SS.
Those who say they are vampire expect us to take their word for it just as some people on VR expect us to believe they are a 1000 year old vampire...
I didnt mean to get off topic, but simple blood drinking and energy feeding are just fractions of what a deffinition of a vampire truely is, I think alot of people mix that up... there is so much more details of what a vampire is other than blood drinking and energy manipulation, So to me anyways,
No human can ever live up to being called a vampire in my eyes, And i would hate to see the modern day vampires water down what a true vampire of myth is and especially if these "self-proclaimed vampires" end up making future man to look back on ancient myths of vampires and associate vampires with humans, thus making all vampire movies and books lose potency.
Vampires have been basis on many good stories from horror to dramas, and I think its the fear and taboo of these creatures is what keeps people interested... If we start to think about a vampire tale being just a human condition and now vampires can be as simple as your next door neighbor, making it uninteresting and also making the myths of ancient vampire a whole new boring meaning..
I hope im making sense
Good answer ~Raz~, thats exactly what I was wanting to read. At least e pluribus unum has the potential to think outside the box every once in a while.
I cannot speak to the matter of real vampires vs fake vampires but I can speak to the tradition of decendency ragarding those who claim decendency from those born of Carpathian blood lines. My family is the family Brujan from which the word "witch" comes from in Spanish. My family came from Romainia to Spain in 1100 A.D., married in to the Spanish royal family of Gama and later migrated to Veracruz, Mexico and from there sread to other places. We can trace our lines to 1100, but due to many factors, the Spanish inquisition among them, the waters are muddy prior to that. Gypsies and Romanians spread throughout Europe with much less benefit of historical family records than my family possess. In Romania itself, record keeping among the less than royal familes is sporadic to say the least. What I CAN say to the matter of those that claim historical blood connection ties to the Carpathian mountain regions and specifically vampire, Gypsy, or witch blood from the region is that there is little documentative evidence existing to support those claims HOWEVER, there also does not appear much documentation in disproving those claims either. In conclusion, one has to make their judgement of said claims based upon other factors. So when it comes down to Real vs. Fake, a lot depends upon who is doing the claiming, and who is doing the judging.
The problem with this thread is that it fails to define what a vampire is or is not. Many people speak of "their" interpretation of a vampire but they are all different. To logically discuss Vampirism, The Practice, we need to isolate each type of vampire being discussed.
Well said. I was approaching the topic from a decendency basis of Capartian blood lines only. Does that a vampire make? Again, it depends on what the definition of vampire is that one is using and who is doing the interpreting. Also even within the narrow frame of what I said there are bloodlines claiming decendency that have nothing to do with Carpathians such as celtic lines.
I agree, that to explore this topic which is too broadly based, one much narrow and define each angle of dissussion. Perhaps take one definition of a vampire, one vampire legend, or one known practise, rather than Vampirism as a whole.
The thread does not ask to define the vampire stereotypes, but to ask about the practices thereof, as well as what degrees there are or standards.
But I do agree that to get to the bottom of practices regarding the vampire, one would have to breach the confines of which vampire is being discussed.
I read " my family can trace their lenage back to 1100, then I read There is no documentation.. followed by .. "There is no evidence/documentation.. But there is no evidence to disprove.. "
Lack of evidence or documentation does not support claims.
While I thank you for your post, I would suggest that you appear to discredit your own reasoning.
I am familiar with Gypsy lore, and they themselves keep it vague, and uncertain. As for people who claim to be vampires by decendance, it would be reasonable to conclude that they gave ( as SS addresses) Historical documents to support their convictions.. even they are lead by some claimed tangible evidence. If it is a belief.. then it us faith based, and a practice it becomes..
Since I was not making a case for or against vampirism, I did not in any way discredit myself or anyone else. What I said in a nutshell was that "proving" decendency from a carpathian line was next to impossible. Now some things can be proven. For example, I CAN proof that some of the Brujan family were burned as heretics and witches and demons by the Spanish Inquisition. I CAN proof that since 1100 A.D. my family has claimed Carpathian blood at times when to have made such claims could and often were fatal. One has to ask if they were not true claims, why on earth anyone would have made them in those times. I CAN prove that my family has lived in the witch capital of the world(Veracruz) as witches since the middle 1500's. Others can claim decendency with proof from the Salem witch trials. Does such proof and documentation mean that the Salem witch decendents are withches or that I am a witch/gypsy/vampire because I can prove Brujan blood lines? Some would say that this is inconclusive and would indicate no. Some would say that if the historical evidence that is available suggest that if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, then it must be a duck. Again, as I said before, it depends upon who is doing the judging and what their criteria is.
I seem to get the feeling that ppl come in to VR claiming to be real vampires so that they hope to fit in. They dont realise that VR isnt just vampires. With the likes of Twightlight and such vampire is the in thing and like always ppl will try anything to be a part of the crowd.
With some individuals claiming to be more credible in their assertion then others.
To paraphrase a quote, " Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence."
All one has to present is an academic accredited paper, or a substancial historical document to support ( not " prove") their conclusion. While some claim to be convicted by something more then personal experience, and hersay from others.
we are off topic and the thread is turning into do we believe people who claim there vampires rather than
Vampire Parctices
So to get it back on thread I shall discuss my practices and before I do, NO I dont want you to believe it but this is what I do and will still do if you beleive it or not and NO, I shalll not be providing proof as I have nothing to prove I am just stating my Vampiric Practices as I am a Vampire (y)
The most ideal way for me to feed is directly from a donor. If willing I prefer that the donor allows me to obtain blood from them, usually using a catheter which is a needle that goes directly into the vein. I take no more than 20ml at any one time and no more than a pint in a month. This is the cream for me the best source of pranic energy I can get.
However finding a donor long term for this type of feed is hard and at the moment I am faced with having to feed from pranic energy off a donor directly using energy manipulation.
I do this by relaxing the donor and then extending my aura into theirs and blending with them to become as one. I then mentally visualise and feel the energy in each of the donors chakrs draining into mine.
I feed this way at least once a day at the moment but prefer twice if I can
I also have a donor who lives in Denmark who allows me to feed from her using astral projection and I feed from her in the same way as I would if she were next to me save that I project my aura through the astral plane until I connect with hers and I do this through a sigil or meditation.
Well in India this blood drinking comes under aghore sanctum of tantra stream and very much secret from common peepal and even govt keeps it secret in this even human blood rituals are going one and even sacrifice is its part.
This classified as aghore tantrik vidya of rakkasa type.
in this class all type of rituals performed on place provided by govt. to these tantriks and they demonstrate their skills.
by self stating that myself is vampire, goes to that category coz that time its inner lead to that stream vampirism and acceptable all the rites by him.
many cultures enjoy the taste of blood within their rituals and even cannibalism, yet perception of Vamprism has different meaning from one individual to another. the persons persona of lifes structure or practice, becoming a common thing like a form of religion or spirtual belief.
~LordBaalNox~, the thread was asking: "Does practicing vampirism, make one a Vampire?"
Your posts alluded to the actual practices of a stereotypical vampire (y), but you did not answer the immediate question, which is does practicing as you do... MAKE you vampire (y)?
Do you feel that what you practice makes you what you think you are?
a real vamp is someone who drinks the blood of others.i dont dont it my self but have always been lured by it. if you are someoe who does it or knows about it plz tell me more
"a real vamp is someone who drinks the blood of others."
I am only posting this for the sake of rememberance. Real vampires do NOT suck the blood of others, this was a connotation from Bram Stoker since the act of intimacy was far too taboo in Stokers days, and thus is why he used the blood as an analogy.
SS -
To answer I think my vampire practise is only part of what makes me a vampire (y)...
The definition is personal and unique, (far to deep to really define online) to each person yet I guess there is a common ground with each other...
To the guy who mention blood drinking
Just because you drink blood does not make you a vampire (y) anyone can drink blood......
i practice vampirism but i never profess to being one.
I find it absurd, and would never lower myself to that. furthermore i dont think practicing it makes you a demon blood sucker of the night with super powers.
lol malky I dont think it makes anyone a demonic blood sucker of the night with super powers either
See thats where the problem lies, yes I guess blood-drinking can be considered a vampiric practice but just practicing 1 Vampire practice doesnt make you a vampire.
There are many practices that humans cant replicate of the true mythical vampire, So I think it would be fair to say maybe just 1 vampiric practice cant give such practicers the true title of vampire.
just a far out example..I have seen the magician Criss Angel walk on water does that make him Jesus?
Jesus had many characteristics not just 1..
Jesus was a vampire!? that would explain the getting everyone to drink his blood thing. He turned the lot into vampire slaves.
I think the notion of being a vampire is a very attractive one. But only because of the very recent romantic overhaul that the vampire has been given. until very very recently a vampire was little more than a bloated animated corpse who attacked people, true, true vampires in the sense of drinking blood live forever is, well utterly ridicules.
But do I believe that there is a type of vampire in the world? Yes, it’s become a common subculture, just like steampunk, or cybergoth...only possibly with a bit more bloodletting.
I was just making a comparison,
But there is a small following that considers the first vampire to be Judas Iscariot the betrayer of Jesus
like in dracula 2000? lol. such a good film, and by good I mean really really bad!
Vampire lore or legend to make it blend in with the bible to prove that vampires do or did exist. Judas or Jesus.
Yet depiction to current life and all those out there that follow in vapiric rites and rituals. much like any cult, religion or school boy trying to earn a degree in a field, its up to the person who calls it their life.
To me (My Opinion)
Vampire is who dire the energies essential for living.
May it be psychic energy (elemental)
May it be blood or taste or habit oriented.
Yet smoker does not come under this category coz it does not crave smoking by its deep inner to the kinship and does not become beast after having cigarates.
But real vampires, inner does crave for energies and dire by instinct and after intake it become beast and start finding the balancing after the intake coz after intake of energies it is locked in that state. before intake he dire for the energy and after intake he desperate to free from that state (subconscious state). Or he has to cut away from the living world.
I did feel the same really many a times. after intake of elemental energy i was desperate to free from the state. coz the intake made me very exploding giant in my inner and could not handle the spatial energy and had to merge into space to balance it.
The same was with blood intake.
After intake if we do not get free from the state, its fever some like had a bog doze.
I have always wanted to learn about vampirism and how it is performed
Also what kind of pleasure if any it gives to the ppl doing it
I thought this was a site for Vamps. Why are there so many non-vamps and skeptics?
We welcome all here on Vr, wether it is to dwell on the vampire movement or those looking for answers to prove it to not exist. Perception is the belief in that something is to be seen to be proved, yet taking this we see the movement on vampires in every day life which has now outpast the perception of lore and fables.
As much as anything, disscusions with belivers and skeptics in are the most intresting surely.
Honorable Velvet Passion,
I got the psychic vampirism by luck in testing the exercises and when i was search of darkness (true para-psychics)
I can give what i learnt and felt. But it is not the earning of single day. you can understand mentoring it is very hard. Coz today finding confidence in the mentor is very rare. and this seek regularity in conference on line on any messenger. But while growing upon topic many think mentor is misleading and everything is normal and they escape without staying with mentor on sundays for two hours online at least 6 months.
and rather i should say that one who have time and survival monetory for those time to do this should try to make mentor. Coz vampirism is not single aspect it cover the psych. and that makes noral vampire within sic months who can survive without harming others and self and having hands on aura seek and astral.
I can attend such conference each sunday if like minded peepal join and we all can grow upon this. coz mentoring is easy and performing needs exercises regularly when you are free.
I must say that conference should be at least of three person and meximum 8 peepal so that every body can attend the subject with each other sincerely.
But with one promise, that one should not drop its goodness for such gain and in return as fees I want person should have hands on meditation too that only is my fees. I will personally attend online that how to do meditation.
May myenglish is not of qualitym but what I wish to say everybody can grasp it.
I will attend the coference as meditation student and student of conscious. But I can train person to intake energies by subconscious growth.
Well going spatial is not hard at all, nor the subconscious boost. if subconsciuous boost with unconscious subtle mind grown at the time of gross active mind its very easy to do any thing.
coz this is called superconscious with awaken subtle mind. this is the state of causal.
but this take little time to come to this phase.
best balancing method is since you was in space astral any astral method is beautiful such as merging into space. and or you can do meditation to balance it. or there are relaxing exercises such as shavasana. but the time of from subconscious grown till balancing is total bliss for energy lover. this exactly is called psychic vampirism. this lovely position is vampires dire for space energy. or
other elements like wise... But i did not try to open from living being. Nor I do know. But if i practice for six month, I can grow in reiki in six month.
Belief that you are a Vampyre is no different than believing you are a Christian, Buddist, Catholic, Satanist, Atheist, ect. By looking at yourself in the mirror, there is no proof that you are classified as a member of one of the aforementioned religions, yet by the way you conduct your life and by your belief's, you are classified by society and your fellow members as a member. Forget Bram Stoker and Hollywood because they have just distorted what the definition of a vampyre is. It is your actions and belief that defines you as a Vampyre.
So in your writing, or philosophy... The spelling of vamp"y"re alludes to a believe structure like that of a theological base, and not a physiological need for sustanance?
Am I understanding this correctly? Vamp"y"rism, is a religious classification?
Vampirism is not a classification its just part of goth culture a stream which dire for energies or living own way living with thouroughness.
I did not mean to vamping any body but I am vamp in my inner.
"Vampirism is not a classification its just part of goth culture."
Thus it is deemed a classification since it is part of a culture. You could also call it some sort of unorthodox fad, to say the least.
SS I came across the Y preference being used by those who follow the Strigoi vii teachings which are philosphy based rather than pysiological based although after speaking to some of their members they do not distinguish between the two as they have both....
I think many others follow the set trends of the massives, they latch onto a phrase or a saying that is classified as correct by being backed up by clever philisophical speach, that looks genuine and therefore must be and they start to follow that conciously or unconsciously
The meaning behind the usage of the y gets eventually lost in translation or a global chineese whisper
now and days, teens call them selves "vampires" because its the biggest hit now and days.. which to those who are, its an insult. those who practice and know they are "vampires" can be called and considered as such.
vampirism in a culture club that has society with an impact that it has matured and has become a stronger movement within society, Not only for goth or emo or what ever it holds no boundaries to whom says or beliefs in the life style or culture.