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its certainly possible, but many submissives ive know, both male and female, are people that in day to day life are "in charge" types. they are sometimes the head of companies, military leaders, people in positions of responsibility. i think with many they find it to be just a way to relax and not have to be in control.

dominants come in several flavours as well. some are people with little sense of power in the "real world" and so compensate in their sexual life. some on the other hand are people that just have the "in charge gene" (that would be me).

im a dominant in most ways in my life. as a school teacher, i am in charge of my classroom (not the students), im a military officer, and in my relationships, while i always respect other opinions, i tend to be the one to make final decisions. its my nature, and those that are with me are well aware of it before things become too serious.
~W~

I look for peoples opinions and thrive on bein challenged Troof/pun intended? In effect, I seek truth.

And yes, I do have formed opinions of my own, as thats as valid as the responses I see. Heck, why take part in this thread, or the forum, if you seek to invalidate the darn thing's.

Anyways.. **Breathes out**

why do so many women Now profess submission, to a man, both here on VR and elsewhere??

could it be that they're seeking their own kind of balance?

As a switch, that'd been my case.

In submitting, one may be driven past personal bounderies, and inhibitions. Utilizing the dominate person as
a catlyst.

Now.. there's a good reason.. tho why not have a drink, or a joint instead?

Sorry.. but submitting to anothers will, to define and redefine, worries me. "Where's the self?"

Self denied is damaging.

I have always found the Submission/Dominator relationship something of a mystery. I cannot grasp the concept I guess...What do they get out of it?

Omega for every Dom/Master Sub/Slave it is different what they seek receive and get out of their relationship{s}

I'm with you Omega. In life, I have a lot to contribute and some good ideas. I want to be heard. At the same time, other ideas may be better, or I might be able to build on them, or they might be able to build on mine.

It's more a process.

In personal relationships, the style continues. In sex, sometimes I'm on top, sometimes I'm not. Here, I've got good ideas, too, and whims, but I'm open to suggestion.

It's a process.

That said, there is a part of humanity, and me, that seeks a quality of being "swept away." This is why we strap ourselves into roller coasters, take drugs, or believe in vampires who can take control.

How much of that quality each of us has runs along a continuum. Some want to surrender, relinquish control or abandon free will completely. Others will never ever let this happen, nor do they want to assume control of another person.

I wonder what the voting patterns, parenting standards, and religious inclinations are of one or the other?

The difference between slavery, and submission is force. By opting to submit the individual, or individuals that one submites to is chosen. slavery is forced on a person through
force, or cohersion.

Considering my experience with relationships, my theory is that there is always an ulterior motive.

When things get tough isnt it the case that folk turn to religion and submitt to a higher authority.Be it man, deity, or political movement?
Thus relieving all that worry and stress. Just a thought.

Personally Angelus I don't think that they do. Or perhaps the intent is to appear submissive to obtain monetary gain through deception.
I mean ok here on this site it appears that there actually isn't that many! There is a big difference from stating that you do something sexually to actually doing something!I feel that a lot could be just sexually experimenting as most people do at a young age....well not just a young age ^^

As to the question at hand 'Why'
Perhaps it is the only love that they feel they will find and by giving in to a partner it dispels all threat of conflict. Personally I like conflict in a relationship because it helps it to mature and grow....without conflict it would be just to mundane and boring.

As a side note, marriage is a form of Equality and Submission.

I, ____, take you, ____, to be my (husband/wife). I promise to be true to you in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. I will love you and honor you all the days of my life. I, ____, take you, ____, for my lawful (husband/wife), to have and to hold, from this day forward, for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part.

wolf i find your responses closest to mine being a Dominant and having had strong submissives it is an internal need not a desire to compensate

I do feel some have taken this thread rather too personally.

I had been specific with the question, an even added later, it appertained specifically to those who maintain their desire on their profile.

Furthermore, equality is also about choice, ergo for someone to choose the Lifestyle ~ it is just that, their choice.

How have people taken it too personally? All I see are answers to your original question. All your responses since are dancing around with words but not really saying anything. What are you looking for here?

I know that this isn't directly relating to woman on the Rave, rather both sexes but I have taken this extract from the link below. There are also other explanations...ect..ect

Dr. Michael J. Bader, author of Arousal: The Secret Logic of Sexual Fantasies, writes: "It is quite common that children who were abused grow up and develop sexual fantasies loosely based on their abuse. ... The adult indulging in a fantasy of sexual surrender or abasement is actually saying to her or himself: 'I'm recreating a terrifying or traumatic scene, but this time I'm in control because I'm scripting the scene ...'"

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Dominance_and_submission

Perhaps one needs to find a profile where a woman states that she is 100% submissive so you can ask, or talk to the Doms who have posted here and ask them to ask their woman the reasons why.

The willow bends to the Storm
Yielding is not always submission
One should not mistake kindness for weakness.

Maybe they're just oxytocin junkies: oxytocin vs testosterone

Troof.. when a respondant to this thread messages me personally, to say there piece, I think it's being taken too personally.

As as aside, some of the respnses have been waaay too flippant. A pity. I sought answer to a question, not such tomfoolery..

Did you seek OUR answers, or were you seeking for one similar to something you already had in mind?

'Cause that would be just silly, right?

I simply pointed out that you were trying to direct the answers to a question that has no answer instead of prompting a healthy discussion. Passive aggressive responses to me don't change this fact. I'm curious to hear your opinion of your own question now that the thread has matured as much as it has.

Personally, I enjoy domn. and sub. techniques, at different times- depends on the person, the mood, etc.

Women may have equal rights as men.. (Heck, it is even legal for us to go without a shirt now)
But women are still viewed as fragile. Or they pretend to be, just so that they can have the pleasure of watching a man take her over.

There is something truly beautiful to watch a man defend a woman, even when the woman could do it herself.

I kinda see what Angelus is talking about. People seem to be taking it a bit personally. Some of us, myself definitely included, seem to have taken this as a chance to preach when all he wanted to know is why so many women in particular claim submission, whether on VR or otherwise.

In my opinion, most of the women do it for attention either because they're young and want to attract older guys or because they think it'll impress the people here. *shrugs* Others, most like because that's... JUST HOW THEY ARE...

As to why they are willing to SHARE that... maybe it's because they enjoy the freedom of being open about WHO and WHAT they are online because, in society, you can't really be very open about that kind of stuff all the time or even some of the time unless you're lucky enough to find a group of peers interested in the same thing. It's freeing to be completely honest and not have to worry about the consequences of it because, if you don't wish it, no one online can hurt you or your place in society because of it. No one can know who you really are unless you tell them or unless they're one of those freaky hackers.

I say I'm submissive on my profile in a very small part MAINLY because, I want it clear that I'm taken by my Master and I don't want anyone to bother me.

The answer is
That there are no simple reasons for human behavior.
It is exactly what makes us so strange and interesting as a species.
each of us respond in a unique and individual way to various aspects of human relation. some responses are colored by nature and some by influence and some seem illogical or abnormal to others.
But that is the point is it not?
We are all of us as unique and dissimilar as snowflakes
And I for one am glad for it.

well stated Moon Waiter,

In my observations here, and in the real world alike, those who are so vocal about what they identify are often lack in candid demonstration of what they identify as. Identity, replaces a developed personality.

Its as if, if they say it to enough people, and enough people hear about their adopted identity, then they will begin to be more convincing to themselves.


In such matters, what is not said , is far more compelling then what is said.

Damn, Dabbler did it to me, again!
To the Lady who responded a few message ago..

.. thank you, for your input.

In my opinion I think women need to feel like a woman because they act like men most of the time(at home they are sometimes both the parents for their kids,the breadmaker and the boss at work) they need the sense of not having to have anything to worry about and just let go without thinking is are the kids ok did i do that project for work is there enough money for food and so on.

I think being a D/s relationship as a submissive things are equal for more than they would be in vanilla relationship just because of what I have seen so far and what surrounding me.

I am a lot like LadyRanye in terms of my personality that I hide a lot and act shy but once you get to know me I can be stubborn and indifferent when I want to be I wouldnt subit to just anyone.While I am submissive by nature that doesnt mean I am going to be be to you if I dont think you deserve it.

Its a strong but sensitive man to dominant me because I will act like I dont need and can be very independent needing my space.

Rainey, you just said a mouthful. "Equality" sometimes means more responsibility, but women have always worked, we've always had the longevity, been widows raising a family, so I don't think it's women who have changed so much as that the men have gotten flakier. Our contributions are more legally protected now, and we have more opportunities to break out of the "biology is destiny" thing. We don't have to give birth, for example. The women's movement encouraged us to have it all. Easier said than done. And like someone pointed out before, there are in-charge men who sometimes want to lay back and be taken care of, to submit. Submit does not translate into being a woman.

flakier?

we have said our piece on the matter
we live and enjoy it
and amaya vana'she is proud of you
you are a strong woman in your own way

nothing to do with the topic but bloodmother i agree the younger generation of men have gotten flakier
a man is not a man because he impregnates a woman but because he stands up and takes care of his responsibilities ( this is what a Dominant does)

Angelus I once described you as "Provocative"
Nail on the head Pal.....
next we can discuss why men with small units drive large trucks......

Actually, males that feel insufficent compinsate with extravagant trucks.

Often they set standards by unrealistic sources ( porn actors).

**Laughter**

Dabbler & Waits For Moon, thank you.

And to Lord Peace and Lady Rayne and .. aw this was so much more than I expected and just what I wanted..
genuine discussion.

So lacking from the dullards today...

**Bows to all**

Very good question.

All through history women have struggled with their "place" among men. Though we may see ourselves as equal on some level, for some women to submit gives them pleasure and power. By power I mean that if the woman did not want to submit then no one is above her, she is her own. It really does boil down to personality. So many view submission differently.For the role play it is a fantasy that one wishes to live out from time to time.But for those of us who live the life as a 24/7 sub/slave the question you ask goes much deeper.
I do see myself as equal but i still choose to submit. Key word "choose". This does not mean that I view myself less than a man. In fact I would submit to a woman as well given she caught my attention.

My personal feelings are that over time we as women have forgotten somethings. Yes, we may be equal to men on many levels. But it is in our nature to serve. To serve and care for the ones we love. Now, I am not saying women should stay home, barefoot and pregnant. We just need a balance.Through times, we have worked, take care of the home, family and more. We prove ourselves over and over that we can be equal to man. We can bring home the bacon so to speak, but still serve and submit and love. In some cultures and lifestyles, yes, submission is viewed as a lesser being. My view is that there is fine line. And it really depends on the person submitting and their mindset and personality. I do not feel I need to tell the world that I am equal to man. I can submit knowing that I am equal, that there are things i cannot do that he can, but there are things he cannot do that only i can. Dominance and submission is a give and take relationship. It is an understanding between two that the sub willingly gives herself over not because she isnt equal but because she chooses to.That being said, Angelus, I hope my opinion helps you find what you are looking for.

Glad to hear that's working out for you. Let's hear from some male submitters. Does it work the same way for men in our equal society?

ooh- good question

yeah i would love to hear from the guys.

.. told you, you did.. hence the question.
I'm a switch. Or was.. or have been.

Have experienced both and, enjoyed both.

not sure what submit means to everyone else but to me it is Yielding to another
I have been married for 27 years and have learned through patient love from my wife to yield and give equal weight to her opinions and wishes.
It was not always so, and she was strong enough to wait for me to mature to a point where I could recognize that yielding is not an act of weakness.
sometimes it is a kindness for another with low self image and a need to feel superior as compensation.
but of course that is only my viewpoint.

submission is the purest of compliments one can offer to their partner in any relationship. it can be submission on many levels... does not have to be sexual.

I think the only true submission is when a guy is the one submitting. This is only my opinion and how I see these situations in my head. I say as much because it is usually ingrained in a man's head that a women is weaker. So, they will find it more comfortable to fully submit to a women. I can at least find some logic in that.

For me, submission have to do with culture and up bringing. Many women, since they are born, are tough that the men are the center of the family, and whatever he say, that is what will happen. There are many country, like, Saudi Arabia, where woman had their right crushed by a cultures of male domination. Places like, Mexico, where the old tradition of "macho Men" still a factor in woman being abused physically and mentally, and the authorities don't do anything, because is part of a tradition. That is my humble opinion. Many will not agree, but, is the true. XX

People tend to create standard over creating imaginary powers over others to create a line of guide, if it a concept(deity), a person(leader) or idea(machine), they give their powers in the search for someone who could canalize it and make something good with it before even pondering if they can have that responsibility, or the maturity to lead a survival plan with your personal aspiration and perspective. By submission you are suspending and confining your liberties over something that is strictly social and expected. That is why I think marriage is overrated, you just need compatibility in life- to the extent it stretches (1 year-lifetime?) not ties that are suppressed by political bonds and contracts over the misunderstanding of "love, soul mates, & whatnot", people entrap themselves on the delusion of others, in this case the whole machine programming. We are all equals, some of us happen to have different genders for a transparent reason that is obvious to state, but in essence we are all to connect with each other to an extent not depend on the actions of other decisions in their process of experience. Compatibility is what create bonds, doesn't really mean is something eternal, this could last a conversation as it could last a lifetime, people just brush it with illusive emotional overload of expecting to find something from the other person that is similar to them, and in time they find that the compatibility reaches a height and the frictions begin to manifest, instead of bonding and attracting becomes repelling and resistant.

Generally it ends up with submitting to the other individual and living a not so fulfilling life by acknowledging the level of unsatisfactory compatibility between their relationship- but still are willing to live confined to it out of fear or pain; and others either simply understand the error of taking the marriage step to far emotionally until they found the level of compatibility and separate (divorce).

People are not so observative and to say the least have to fall many times and grow old to unfortunately understand this from a gathering point.

Marriage just for the sake of marriage is a brutal waste of time
If two people begin as friends with similar interest and wish to commit to one another, that on the other hand can be beautiful.
No relationship is perfect, no person is perfect, in this world of instant gratification and instant access it seems to me that most nowadays view relationships as throw away, move on to the next thing, and place no value on investing time and heart into another. If someone does something you dont like or you see something you might like better just dump it all and move on.
All good relationships have give and take, Yielding and control.(submission and dominance)

sometimes submission is better to be for some people but it is better

if you have a person you care for you two should spend your lives as equals

I so cannot agree with venumstings summation: as someone who can see both sides, both equality and submission can be about balance.. and in the ideal relationasip, will work because of that.

Anyone can be equally submissive and or dominant. But in order for equality and submission to be present as one in the bedroom, each participants preference must be made known. Otherwise we are left guessing and that upsets the balance of equality. Submission is an act of pure trust and love and should be treated and accepted as such. However, dominance is not necessarily always a sign of control but a symbol of protection.

Well, I can tell you know, I am not fishing for anything, and I am not falsely stating my personality when I say I am a submissive, and I am submissive to a person on here, whom I do live with.
I am and always have been submissive, and as for the statement fairly far above this post, I am giving something up. Just because I was raised submissive, does not mean that is what I wanted to be. It does not mean I dont want to be Dominant.
I do make a lot of my own choices, and sometimes even makes choices for my Dominant (well, mostly about food). However, being raised submissive I always have wanted a chance to just take care of myself for a change, and not someone else, I always wanted a chance to be who and what I wanted, not the other way around.
However, my calling is to be submissive, to serve, and I am still proud of it. As to why, it's who I am because I was just simply born that way, and then raised that way.
Some are born with it, some are learned, some are awakened in them, and some are willingly forced.
Some have the opportunity to not make choices, to not have to just take care of themselves, to have a stable person in their lives, and believe me, women absolutely love stability, and are mostly instable by nature.
Submission in this way, has existed for a long, long time, it's only in the face of equality that they added in some kinky things with it, or they added something more defined, or processes not used before.
Females, also naturally more soft in heart, more caring, more nurturing than males (though, i do not doubt men out there that can be these things as well for there are men, i believe the point was made, who are also submissive) which leads to a more submissive, more humble nature.
But just like submission is born, learned, awakened or willingly forced, so is Dominance, so really, how does it come about with so many women? nature vs. nurture;, and environmental vs behavioral.
There are many different ways a woman comes to submission, and it probably is coming out more, rather than being more common, because of the level of acceptance about different lifestyles is a lot more open-minded and understanding than it was before.

I find this to be a very good question and also very interesting! Even though people have personalitys i think that lean them towards being dominated by certain others or not, I still feel that woman who are submissive in some cases may do it out of love but also some out of lack of confidence in themselves as well. Not in all cases but in some cases.

.. if nothing else, the continuance of this thread is evidence of the validity of the question, I think.

.. again, I'd like to thank all who participated and spoke so eloquently; and Deirdre, "thanks, well said."

Is there a difference between being submissive and being a submissive?

One seems more objectified than the other, but maybe that's the point.

Someone above described being raised to be submissive, but having dreams, wishes and ideas about taking care of herself. If the thought is not pursued then the choice has been made to be a submissive, to objectify oneself.

If the ideas never occurred then the person would be submissive by nature.

I believe there is a difference.n I think the difference is one is naturally submissive and the other chooses to be be submissive. I think it is all psychological as to whether a person is submissive or not. For example, it could be the result of abuse or in work related situations being constantly in control and wanting to relinquish power.

my natural brother lives across a river from me. we met once. what strikes me was the similarities we shared that were not nature, or nurture.. just there.. a similar humour, same taste in women..

so for my reasons, I think you're wrong.

I guess you may have overlooked all of the men submitting to a woman on the internet, look in your local classifieds for example; the male subs seeking Dom/Domme list will usually be larger than their female counterpart.

You should learn a little about the "Male" mentality, a man will do ANYTHING to get laid. including self abasement.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.