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is it really so crazy to think about suicide?

Death is much easier than living. Yet we think people to be insane when they do it upon themselves.
What if we are the insane ones, for wanting to put up with life for so long?

It's only crazy to those that think it is.

Thinking about it, not a big deal. It's always cool to be creative.

Personally, I think anyone that commits suicide is taking the easy way out of life. It's life, we all have problems, we all bitch about those problems, and the problems eventually go away. Then we live good for a short time until new problems come about. Life was meant to be stressful. Suicide is just a cheap ending to a life we are living for reasons we haven't quite figured out yet.

"It's only crazy to those that think it is."


i could use this as an explanation for so many actions people in modern society

I have to be straight up here, this sounds so Emo!

Validating suicide? Can you say enabling?

Think about people that suffer from depression, would you really want that on your conscious, promoting suicide?

Suicide is all about selfishness.

i don't think shes promoting it exactly

No, im not... I'm just saying, why does everyone automatically assume that just because you think about it, that you need medication and to be locked in a psych ward.

But I can see where you are coming from, Dabbler

Also... not everyone that commits the act is essentially emo. sometimes, the ones hiding the most pain are the people that appear to be the happiest.

But I do agree- suicide is a way of taking the easy road out

Honestly, my opinion is simple...

It's your life, no one has the right to tell you to keep going or to stop it.

I think of suicide as self inflicted abortion.

Is suicide selfish? Sure, just as selfish as bringing a baby into this world that didn't ask to be here.

Think about it...

We have children thus, we force upon that life all the things that we hate about life. (i.e. bills, stress)

Granted, most parents try to guide their children on the path to a good life without forcing upon them all the things that they hate but, the world is a rough place and maybe those that commit suicide just had enough of it.

That's a very good point... i didnt think about that before

it really is as cruel a decision to force someone into the world as it is to force them out of it

I find my self wishing some people would kill themselves.

Miserable people bring everyone around them down, and want everyone to coddle, and cater to their every whoa.. fuck angst, and people who douse themselves in misery.

Note I did not say depressed individuals, but miserable
people, people who expect life to constantly be a ball, and the moment they are challenged, and fail because they never learned basic skills, they digress into "poor me", and "I hate.."

People that cut for attention
People that cry only around others
People that threaten suicide because their BF/GF of the moment broke up with them after a month

Yes, I know the type. My school is filled with them.

But lets not get off subject here

How is the topic not enabling same individuals?

They all make the same argument..

. I think there is a big difference between the people who threaten suicide and the ones who actually do it

Yeah- they are dead, can't take it back.

well and i think a lot of people who threaten suicide just want attention, its the silent ones you have to worry about

But who says they ever would?

okay, next question...

If you could re-live in this life, would you commit suicide now- by knowing full well that you'd be re-born AND remember this present life?

I agree. But no situation is really common

But that's the whole thing... should we actually worry, or just let it be and deal with it if it happens?

What if we are the selfish ones, because we won't let our friends commit suicide?

knowing exactly how things would be at this point and if i was 100% guaranteed to reborn and relieve my life yes i would i most definitely know I want a redo on my last ten years

I am seeing a secondary issue here.

really? you think there is nothing in your life you would like to redo

"To be or Not to Be.
That is the question.
Whether tis nobler in the mind to
Suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
or to take arms against this sea of trouble and...
by opposing end them?"

I think the reason this line from Hamlet is so famous is because we all ask ourselves that question at some point in our life.
Life and death are so far beyond our consciousness that considering them from out 3-dimensional perspective can be quite overwhelming indeed.

No, it's not crazy to ever consider suicide. The very notions of "Crazy" and "insane" are completely relative, and the only definition lies within the standards of whatever society you live in. Life's challenges bring us all to our knees at times, and regardless of what we believe to be after this, it's not insane to consider alternatives to the pain of living.

At the same time, I believe that while contemplating suicide is a psychological normality, it is a bridge that must be crossed. If our intent with our life is to realize our fullest potential, suicide robs us of our chance to continually grow within this life. Challenges may seem truly enormous at times, but when you die and get to the other side, where you will become able to see all the choices you could have made instead, your spirit will be very disappointed.

Thinking, is far different from dwelling on, and as we all know their are those who utilize suicide as a tool to draw people around them. Such people want everyone to join their pity party. They are not interested in developing coping skills, as a matter of fact they want everyone to
bend, and adapt to their limited level of maturity.

So it is important to be clear with a thread such as this, because it can be received by such pathetic individuals as
encouragement to prolong the phase.

yeah kinda like on family guy the episode where quagmires wife threatens to kill herself every time he threatened to leave

Nailed it.

"Friends going to a concert without you, to actually have a good time?"

Threaten suicide, and they will feel bad about leaving you behind!

wait wait.. don't threaten, that could end you up in 72 hour hold, Allude to thinking about Suicide..

yeah its sad when people are so needy they feel they must threaten suicide to keep you around them

Their smart now a days they allude to it, just in case someone acts what they say.

What they want is for people to shore up their artificial esteem, the illusion that they are important, and thet people will drop everything to cheer them up.

So "thinking" or implying is the new claiming.

because to claim to be suicidal will land a person in a BHU.

ahh but that doesn't work all the time

Thankful such people are transparent to mature people.

Such people are exploited by immature adults, who know how to appear to cater to them, and thru that connecting they gain an entourage.

It also only works so long with their peers.

But bleeding hearts, and enablers fall for it every time, because they want to appear to be sympathetic.



I think the wording of the thread could be a bit more concise, thinking thoughts of suicide is a symptom of a distressed mind, or even a mental illness, or imbalance.

Entertaining thoughts of death however, that is not necessarily a symptom.

Then there's euthanasia...

What about assisted suicide? "Million Dollar Baby" scenario anyone?

I dont agree that having a child is on the same level as killing yourself...

I was adopted twice... I was an unexpected birth obviously and lived 2 years in an orphanage, but I feel my life is a blessing. I was given a chance to see the world and to experience hardship then to experience amazing things... and that made me appreciate the amazing time so much more...

I also experienced seeing my mother after she killed herself...and NOTHING that anyone can do can make our lives better after that point. It was scarring for everyone invoved and literally ripped our family in half. I dont know of a simgle positive thing about suicide. But I can think of MANY positive things you can do for a child even if you have them unexpectedly.

So...NO... Knowing from a first hand basis, they are NOT on the same level. Thinking of suicide, I feel is not a sign of being crazy... but it is a sign of severe weakness... and in the same respect... you need help. There is only so much a person can take before they break... so people need to suck up their pride and realize when they need help.

Suicide is selfish and hurtful to the people who love you. You are pretty much telling them that the people who love you arent even good enough for you to get over your temporary pain... End of story.

All hardships pass with time.

I think that it is sad when someone even thinks about it...

I used to work in a mental health hospital. I worked on the children's unit. My mother still works there on the adolescent unit. Childrens unit takes ages 3-11, adolescent takes ages 12-17 and the adult unit is 18-79. 80 and over goes to a nursing home.

I remember getting a 3 year old in once that had tried to kill his mother and father and baby brother and had succeeded in burning the house down. His parents put him in there.

There were kids in there that knew cuss words I never knew existed. There were violent kids, and those that talked to themselves and things that weren't there. They were all on some sort of medication whether it be for add/adhd, depression, auditory and visual hallucinations, etc.

The adolescents were a different story. Girls would come in with cuts all up and down there arms. One in particular had 104 cuts on one arm alone. They would throw chairs, attack staff members, start little riots, sneak into each others rooms and beat the hell out of each other. When they really acted out, the big guys from the hospital would come running to take the patient down, the nurse would give them a shot of thorazine, and they would be locked in a padded room. During eating times, the staff members would have to account for every plastic spoon and fork they handed out and collect them all back at the end. Some adolescents would break off the prongs on the fork and hide them in a slit they would make in the curtain in their room to take out for later cutting. Or they would peel the baseboard back and stash it in there.

They have tried to elope and have been successful at getting almost to town (about 3 miles away) before being found.

The adult unit was pretty interesting. Had a 63 year old woman in there once that spoke German and the only English she knew was to holler at staff that they were traitors. Another lady wrote in crayon (crayons were the only writing utensil they were allowed) biblical scriptures all over the walls in the lockdown unit. Yet another lady, morbidly obese, sprawled herself out in the living area in front of staff and patients, pulled her hospital gown up, and fingered herself until they shot her up with thorazine, and threw her in lockdown. Lockdown is a tiny room where the bed is bolted to the floor and there are metal bars over the window, no toilet or sinnk or shower, no closet, and a camera is on you at all times. Staff on the adult unit wear bracelets that if ever attacked by a patient, they can press a button on there that will notify the big staff guys in the building that help is needed.


I think alot of what the teenagers do is for show. But the children and the adults have some major psychotic issues.

I am happy to say I have gotten away from that stressful job and now work for the automotive industry as a blue collar worker. lol

I would love to go into detail about some of the behaviors, and the family issues that have caused the odd behaviors, but HIPPA requires I not.

All I know is teenagers are like all other teenagers experiencing angst and rebelliousness. Hate their life, their mom, their dad, their teachers, their school, their homework, their clothes, nothing is good enough, they can't do what they want to do, etc. So they get pissed and do stupid shit.

Oh woe is me, I can't watch the Simpsons tonight so I think I will go into my room and cut my arm.

Get the fuck over it kid.

you cant blame all teenagers that are a bit messed up on thir age.... some teenagers have legitamate reasons to being the way they are... you never know what their back story is.

my previous post: " I think alot of what the teenagers do is for show. But the children and the adults have some major psychotic issues."

I said ALOT of what teenagers DO is for show.

My second post is basically saying teenagers will be teenagers. We've all been through it. Some would just rather not go through it and end it or call attention to themselves.

I am sure a few of them have legitimate reasons. But in reality, being a teenager is like an unmarked gift you receive from a stranger. You open it up and you never know what the hell will come out of it. Once kids hit the teenage years, they have it rough. Things are hard for them because they are beginning to discover themselves and also realizing it isn't all about barbie dolls and firetrucks anymore. They see there is a big bad world out there and they get kind of nervous having to face it because they know in just a few years they will be doing it by themselves without mom or dad. We've all been there. We've been through the stages. Some just prefer not to go through it. For the most part. once they get past that disease of being a teenager, things gradually fall back into place. Some grow into responsible adults and have families of their own, others go on to being addicts, etc.

But I can honestly say that the teenagers today are way out of control. I blame it on CPS, DHS, schools etc. Why?

We aren't allowed to discipline our kids the way we were disciplined or we go to jail. They teach kids in school if they get hit in a way the kid feels is inappropriate then they should tell the school and then the school jumps in and calls DHS/CPS and they come and take the kid away all because they kid didn't what they wanted. Kids are spoiled nowadays and parents are losing all authority over them because of the new stupid laws that are emerging all the time. Protect our children. Fine. But what about PROTECT THE PARENTS? There are some kids out there that KNOW all these little laws and will hit their parents because they KNOW their parent won't do shit because the kid will go crying to school and they will go to jail.

I am not saying take a damn 2x4 with a nail in it and beat them over the head, no.

I am saying, when your kid backtalks you, pushes you, cusses at you, take a damn belt to their ass. Make them cry. You are their parent.

Someone is OBVIOUSLY very touchy about the subject. But bottom line is, maybe you have run into many ill behaved teenagers... yes, but honestly there are very many good ones as well. I simply respectfully disgree with you. You might be able to list off a handful of bad kids in highschool, but they are not all that way. I would have to say that most are good kids. EVERYONE does things to get attention every once in a while. Even adults... it's nothing out of the norm for people in general to do things wrong every now and again, but accusing them to be as drastic as a whole is a bit of an overstatment. In fact, I'd say people are more drastic as young adults when they get out of the house... 21 year olds are worse than teenagers, I'd say.

But getting back onto the topic on hand. Honestly when it comes to actualy suiside... the rates indcrease by age.

Age Suicide rate per 100,000
10 to 14: 1.6
15 to 19: 9.5
20 to 24: 13.6
25+ : 65

Well, I can tell you from experience...My ex-wife and I tried to have a child for two years before we were successful.

I wanted that child more than anything. So for me, it was a completely selfish act. I can also say the same for my ex.

Where the two are different is, once the child is born, it's all about giving everything you got to make sure that child has everything it needs to make it in this life.

But to me, suicide and having a child are equally selfish acts. They are just at opposing ends. (one is taking a life, the other, is bringing life)

I suppose they are both selfish, but one can be fixed while the other cant. There are many kids who had hard upbringings who turned out good people. But well once you kill yourself. now way to fix that. So I have to agree that they are not on the same level. Both are selfish, but not on the same level.

DukeofDamnation: Again, my 1st post said that I believe alot of what teenagers do is for show. It is the children and adults that have the problems.

and no, it's not a touchy subject for me, nor am I getting offended in any way or anything else you might assume. I believe we are having a fair debate.

I can say we disagree. That's great. At least we have taken the time to read what each other has said.

Euthanasia, whole different thread topic.

again I would suggest a better worded Original post. Something I suspect is being lost in translation.

Just as a few days ago a thread appeared in the sand box, "cry suicide"

What should be done about people who cry suicide?

Then in the main forum a thread titled.
What is Normal?

I think their is a progressive issue in there some where.

It appears like someone is building a case for defending angst.

I'll agree with what has already been so well stated,

It Will Pass!

I I will Add, You will come through it stronger, and more mature then those who act upon their angst.

touche. suicide is something that shouldnt be defended even in the slighest.

I just have this curious notion that the word think is being miss applied.

Thinking, and Implying are a big distinction. I notice
the trends.

I have personally worked front desk at a rehab clinic for 12-16 yro, follow up questions to threats, or pleas had a protocol, and the patients knew the minute difference, and how it was treated.

The peer to peer image plays into it as well, the wanting to appear dark, and daring, unafraid, and "More Miserable then Thou" is an element as well.

So their is a potential in this for enabling such unhealthy behavior. It gets as though they toy with the emotions of others by acting out.

I don't know maybe I just see suicide differently than most.

Suicide, while tragic, is easy to criticize from the outside looking in. After all, friends and loved ones feel the pain and loss.

I give the same argument that is given for abortion: It's your body, your life, no one has the right to force you to live if you don't really want to.

Then if the pain is all that.

Do it! Why advertise?

I think there is a fad developing over such topics. Like "I am so deep."

No actually your a loser, a resigned loser, and good for you if you spare resources for those who the challenges, and don't expect everything to be ecstatically entertaining, and easy.

But do It! talk is cheap..

If your group* convinces you that a never ending pie feast awaits on the "other side" then hurry! But don't bring people down before you go! Don't even waste time writing a letter, because "Nobody Understands How Deep, and Dark You Are."


* cult

WHOA Dab...LOL

I am in no way suicidal. Someone has to play devil's advocate here.

My point is simply that suicide is a part of society (it's a reality) and if someone really wants to take their life, they will. There would be no way to stop them.

As for those that are just seeking attention, I would be the last person they would want to come to.

I know you're not, I was in an "Open Letter" style post.

I know the protocol for distinction, and most people will demonstrate by action far before they consider whether they will voice their intention. Intervention is often affective in such cases.

Spiraling individuals will seek indirectly stability prior to engaging themselves in contemplating, and plotting a method.

I have to look up online for the course standards taught at rehabs, and Crisis Hot Lines.

Free me, oh
cast me from wretched whoa
must I
shall I
cast of my Dim Light
with not a hope
of radiance
to serve purpose
to others
it is I
Dim
never strive
to radiate

There is a good question in there Dab...

Why when someone does commit suicide, do they not at least leave something other than a sad note? Because they feel they have no hope, therefore there is no hope for others?

I wonder really, why leave questions unanswered?

is it really so crazy to think about suicide?

A: The mind thinks of a lot of things all the time. Although i have never once thought about killing myself. I have never been that depressed, nor am i weak minded enough to say, i hate life so much, i should take the pansy way out whenever life challenges me.

An honorable death is not by one's own hand.

Death will surely come whenever it's meant to. I guess you can say that in some other viewpoints....death itself is selfish, for it claims the lives of many. lol

Wow!!! What suicide have to do with this thread? Well, I think that nothing. Suicide is Sickening of the mind. Even to talked about it, make me think, Are you promoting Suicide? What if some of our members, take this thread as a serious matter and go and kill themselves? So, How will you feel, will you end your life because the agony of thinking that someone is not alive because you. Wow.

Another question for ya......

What makes you think DEATH is easier than life? Who the hell said that ending your life would put an end to it all? lol Maybe it doesn't. Then what? The only difference is that if an afterlife DOES exist, I imagine your spirtual self wouldn't get to feel all the things you could be feeling alive such as making love to another, or giving life to another soul that wants to live too, or experience things that is only the human experience.

Death might be as nice and quaint as people are assuming either ;)

For those that haven't already said that maybe? Course not sure what ya mean. *shrugs*

Suicide is a topic of discussion that people have everyday.

For someone to suggest that this thread would be "the straw that broke the camel's back" and someone might commit suicide because of it is ludicrous and you should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting it.

Unless of course you enjoy guilt tripping people into your way of thinking. In which case, you are truly pathetic.

Yeah, what he just said!

It's just a discussion.

I suppose if we were on a topic of abortion, that wouldn't make women go out and abort their babies or if we were discussing racism, that wouldn't make anyone go out and join the KKK or other racist groups would it? And if they DID, then they obviously take things a bit too seriously.

I think the discussion is going great. Keep up the good posts everyone!

NO ONE is promoting suicide.

We are simply discussing if suicidal victims really are the ones insane

The victims of suicide.. victims of suicide are those they leave behind!


See you have subtle changed the wording of your Original post, but what a difference you have uncovered.

I don't believe, or subscribe in an After Life, I do however subscribe to what I experienced. a During Dying
and I can assure you, I would not want to confront that threshold with the complex of having extinguished myself.

are victims, of suicide insane? I sincerely believe this thread ran away from you vampirchica. As you are splashing black paint around, and busting out all the lights, and telling people everything is alright.

"It is OK to be depressed, and people should leave me alone."

"I don't want to be normal"

Turning angst's screws.

In a persons dying

I can see how one could allow themselves to think that death is the easy way out and that maybe life is to difficult for that individual to bare...


But what if you are wrong??

We assume that life is the hard part all the time, but who is to say that death as a reality isn't the hard part.

One could argue that an endless period of no pleasure or pain... no feeling or emotion, to be but to not really be - that sounds pretty bad to me.
For all we know life is the rollercoaster ride that was designed to be thrilling and fun at the amusement park of eternity... and guess what you just made them stop the ride because you decided it wasn't for you.

Rich allegory Severus

In a manner individuals building up their case for committing suicide imagine unconsciously that they hold power over life.

What is often overlooked is that they are holding themselves hostage when they disclose their intent to others.

My training taught that those who only display unintended symptoms of spiraling esteem are the important cases, and also the cases that receive intervention.


I'll be the first to say also that while being constantly depressed is not healthy, neither is being constantly exhilarated esteem wise, setting the Bar to high is a mistake.

I am sorry everyone but I'm a sarcastic wise ass and I can't help myself...

Ok dab!!
So for clarity- what your saying is that if I were a...
I don't know...

let's say a Jigglo, that what I should be trying to do is screw my way to middle.

THAT IS AWESOME!! roflmao

I asked questions, then responded to the answers...

I dont understand what you are trying to say, Dabbler.
lets just focus on the thread

I just want it to be clear, the question, and the base for discussion.

Thinking suicide, or what?

"are we insane for wanting to live life?"

As if people with no ambition are some how better adjusted then sound, stable minded people.


Severus, I would say strive to achieve, but allow slack for disappointment. You Gigolo you!

you have to look at hoe you asked this.... you said

"is it really so crazy to think about suicide?

Death is much easier than living. Yet we think people to be insane when they do it upon themselves.
What if we are the insane ones, for wanting to put up with life for so long?"

If someone i loved or knew asked me these questions... in this manner...I'd worry that they are trying to validate their decision to try and commit suicide...

the way you are asking it seem like you are defending those who kill themselves... and i think many people here are simply saying... it shouldn't be defended.

Its was just the way you asked the questions...

I feel suciside is a Cowards way out of like I do not feel they are insane or crazy just a Coward. No one says to live life is easy it is what we make of it. I mena I read how this perosn or that person abused me raped me slaved me etc. Well many have been down that road once or twice even myself I had been raped left for dead, yet, I did not die, I wouldnot give someone else that satifaction of me committing sucisde because they screwed up my world for a min.

You have to be strong and believe in oneself to live life I feel, I mean I have been through alot yet, I am still here I refuse to die just because things got rough and hard for me. To commit suiciside (SP) is always the easy way out and the ones to try to commit it usually screw that up as well. Then you just cause more pain for yourself. Death will come to us ALL when the time is due for us to cash in so why rush it or cash in early.?

makes no sense to me, many are called insane yet did you know that guienus and insanity border each other? yeah, so who is to say one is insane or sane. I have always lived by the fact that we have to all be alittle insane to handle the sanity
yet, this is just my opinion on taking your life and death.

Suicide is in most cases completely unnecessary if life gets tough it makes you stronger whe you get through it. When someone commits suicide they are taking not only their life but part of other peoples too. Anyone who thinks about commiting suicide should get help. I did and now lifes great and im still here.

Here in the US we have certain rights...

Life
Liberty
and the pursuit of happiness

All three of which you have the right to but, there is no guarantee.

The pursuit of happiness is what I want to focus on here. People so often misunderstand this. As if they have the right to be happy. That is not the case. You have the right to PURSUE happiness. If you find it, great. If you don't well, there was never any guarantee that you would.

Perhaps those who commit suicide, pursued happiness and did not find it then, did not want to pursue it any further.

The only thing missing (to my mind) is the right to die. Now, everyone will die (physical death), that is fact. But, I also believe one should have the right to decide how, when and where.

If a person chooses to commit suicide, that is fine with me. As long as it doesn't intrude on someone else's right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. And as far as I can see, a person killing themselves doesn't. I would think murder would be far worse than suicide.

Of course murder is worse than suicide the person that gets killed did not want to be killed

People should respect life, just as people should respect that others want them to be alive. They shouldn't be so selfish... someone who is okay with letting down everyone they love and everyone who loves them is selfish and childish and needs to grow up. Life isn't always about how YOU feel. we have a responsibility to others as well.

If you honestly feel this way, I must say you have a very childish and selfish perception of life and it's worth. At the end of the day.... it's all that we have... our life. Happiness and sadness come and go. We are all here on this planet fighting for life.... our lives....and the lives of the ones we love.

But actually seeing someone take their life. Someone you love dearly, changes your perception. It changes the way you feel when people are willing to say it is okay. Because it's not. It's the most cruel thing you can every do to the people you love... so cruel that the people who ones loved you will always question if you HONESTLY ever loved them. Because in the end... you didn't act like it.

Quote:


"Being poor and undereducated I never believed I was anything special but I didn't want anyone else to know that, so told everyone I was the greatest of all time."

"One day I looked up and I was the greatest."




- Muhammad Ali

So then, it's not selfish to want someone to continue living if they truly don't want to?

The selfish argument can be made both ways. The person committing suicide is selfish and the one who wants them to go on living is equally selfish.

I am not necessarily talking about those who end their lives because they can't deal with life any longer. I am mainly concentrating on those whose quality of life has been diminished because of disease and other things.

There are many people who have learned to many the best of their life with even the most harsh and pain diseases... thinking of death at this point is not wrong. I wont say it is... but if you are to die of something, let it be that then by your own hands. Because is it too much to try...with your everything to make your loved ones happy? Love is selfless... and in love you find the strength to overcome ALL things... even if it pains you. I stand firm in the belief that if I love someone... honestly with everything that I am, I will do everything in my power to make them happy. it's not about me any longer. Many people have lost what it means to tuely love. That is sad, but it is just an excuse to be weak and selfish. I believe that both parties should be selfless in the endeavor. One must be willing to let the inflicted go... yes, but the inflicted must also be willing to give it their all before letting go....just because dying is "easier".

Life is hard. Life will always be hard, but people need to realize they are not the first, nor the last to have to deal with hardship. They should be strong for the ones they love...and for themselves.

But...in the same manner...I do realize....sometimes it takes personal experience for some to truly understand...and those who where fortunate enough not to have endured such pain may be too stubborn to see through the eyes of the ones who have... but sometimes, reality can teach us all important life lessons... and those are the ones who grow to be wiser than their years.

So no, I do not expect everyone to understand, nor to agree.

Keeper of the Mask said it so well.

I find the thread implying that to commit suicide is al an act of bravery, NO IT IS COWARDLY!

To use suicide as a tool is equal to holding a person hostage!

No one knows enough about death to assume it is the easy way out. We can only imagine what the future holds for any of us, yet never knowing what tommarrow will bring.

yeah for alll we know death could be more painful than life

When we get closer to death, do we see it coming? My dad looked relaxed. My father-in-law who believes in spiritualism said my mom was there to guild him.

its all on how you look at it. I view it as an easy fix but it causes more issues than a regular death if you think about it. Not to mention if a person who does have a religion that commits suicide it can be a instant door way to hell with no escape

wait you are saying that you only go to hell if you believe you are going to hell?

I have to agree whole-heartedly with GOC on this topic.

To conjecture that committing suicide is a "cowardly" act is the summation of someone who's never been face to face with that personal decision. A lot of people who succumb to suicide are battling long-term depression...deep depression...sometime for no other reason except a major downturn in seratonin levels.

The true "pain" that deep depression brings is physical as well as mental and emotional and on a level that the only relief from it is to end your life. In the moment you contemplate that, you can think of nothing else but the pain and the what seems a neverending course to that anguish.

As for bringing children into this world as being "cruel" as someone taking themselves out? Would you like to repeat that again to a mother who should have had a stillborn baby but against all medical odds, has a beautiful, living child or to the mother who nearly died herself giving birth to a second child. Saying such a thing, would truly be something, a person who has never experienced bringing a baby into this world physically with their own body, would think of as a "selfish" thing.

Cutting is a different issue entirely as self-mutilation is a form of psychosis involving deeper traumas or related to any various form of mental illness and requires heavy therapy. It is a compulsive disorder, much the same as having a desire to continuously wash your hands until they're raw and bleeding.

Suicide is the end-result, most often of long-standing, deep depression that has gone untreated for one reason or another. To end one's life is to end one's personal pains and a decision contemplated by very "sane" people.

i don't think its cowardly per se, I mean in ancient roman tradition it was a way to save dignity instead of facing the shame of public execution

Fate Unseen....
it's 2010... ok?
cultural differences ALONE are so different now...
to use this as depate on why it is ok is quite
illogical.... back then they killed the village idiot too...
anyone like to offer the village idiot up?
let me lob off a few heads...
I've been DYING to.

no suicide needed.


*sigh*

As well as in Japan with the Samaurai...but suicide was enacted as a form of saving honor not for one's self, but for the entire "Family" name...to dishonor your Family Name was to put all you loved and cared for in disgrace, considered worse than beggars and outcast from the main par of society. It is a practice still done today...much as finding parents of certain religious ideologies consider it well within their rights to kill a daughter who is thought to act unbecoming to propriety and statutes set forth in their cultural law.

In Western-minded society, suicide and even assisted suicide for the terminally ill is considered taboo and "selfish" or "cowardly" while in other older countries, it is considered "selfless" and "honorable." As in all things, in the ever-flowing course of life, it is a final decision that must also take into account the source and intensity of pain, and in many cases..shame..that drives anyone to partake of this particular form of death.

Look around you...each of you...can you honestly tell the person you are with and say.."I know how you feel?....I know how much you hurt?" Each person has a tolerance to what they can handle and what they can't...some of us just have a shorter stick to burn at both ends. How many people, looking sad and forlorn on the street..maybe even crying...and how many walk past them pretending to never see them?...never even greet them and say, "Hi"...or just give the comfort of a hug, even from a stranger...because let's face one simple fact...I've yet to meet anyone here who has a "Leave It to Beaver" family...often times, our families hurt us the most in so many different ways...they tend to be our worst critics.

Sometimes compassion and intervention is enough...sometimes it is not...but debate of suicide should not become a catalyst to lose respect or love for the person who has taken their own life....for even as much as it hurts those left behind to question why and how...you still miss them, and you still love them because that... is just how the human heart works.

now i'm not really into the whole depressive look, or feeling that people should be miserable but i do get pissed off at "Leave It to Beaver" happy, its like what is wrong with you? there is no way you are really as happy as you broadcast to the world

A darkness descends upon a community and three 15 yr old girls at one school commit suicide, not as unusual as one might believe? Read on~
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/woman/real_life/835357/UK-suicide-cluster-scourge.html
Is this mass hysteria or 'death eaters'~ a study may show?

I do believe that suicide is a selfish thing to do. And I want to differentiate between suicide and euthanasia. When we talk of suicide, it is as a losing battle with depression (or, in some cases, a ploy for attention). At least, that is my understanding of the term as discussed in this thread.

I have suffered with depression in the past (I am sure that we all have) and considered it - but I knew how the lives of those around me would unravel from such an act. There are so many avenues for help when a person feels that way. There are hotlines, therapists, doctors, hospitals, friends, writing...the list goes on. Unfortunately, the person has to want help, sometimes an intervention may work, other times it won't.

Sadness is fleeting, it won't last forever. And to destroy the gift of life given to you because of it, well, that just seems like taking a brand new expensive [insert gift here] item you were given as a present and throwing it in the ocean because you didn't like the color, when that is something you can fix or change.

As far as euthanasia, that is an entirely different topic. I watched my stepfather get eaten alive by cancer, like so many others. Once the doctor told him there was no other treatment they could do, after he endured months of chemo and radiation, and that he would not survive because it was too far spread, if he had decided to end it instead of continuing to waste away for the next 6 weeks, well, I would not have blamed him. I watched the strongest man I have ever known wither in mind and body. He was unable to walk, and lost function and the ability to comprehend who we were, he wouldn't know where he was in the house he had lived most of his life in...he suffered unimaginable amounts of pain, and wept when we had to care for him, feeling like he let us down.

Anyone who has watched a love one go through something similar knows what I am talking about. When we have a pet in pain and cannot cure them, we are kind enough to let them out of the misery instead of waiting for them to suffer to the point of death, but we as a society won't let a cognitive loved one make that same decision for themselves when death is looming on the horizon, to be followed only by a guaranteed night of suffering?

suicide is a form of giving up. are we going to be strong and try to make it thro watever it is somone or somthing thought we would be able tio? or are we going to give up?

Silverhawk, you missed my point entirely. And, I would be happy to repeat any of my statements to anyone male/female, mother/father, brother/sister, husband/wife...so on and so forth.

Just for clarification, I never said bringing a child into the world was "cruel."

This is what I said...

"Is suicide selfish? Sure, just as selfish as bringing a baby into this world that didn't ask to be here.

Think about it...

We have children thus, we force upon that life all the things that we hate about life. (i.e. bills, stress)

Granted, most parents try to guide their children on the path to a good life without forcing upon them all the things that they hate but, the world is a rough place and maybe those that commit suicide just had enough of it."

and in another post I said...

"Well, I can tell you from experience...My ex-wife and I tried to have a child for two years before we were successful.

I wanted that child more than anything. So for me, it was a completely selfish act. I can also say the same for my ex.

Where the two are different is, once the child is born, it's all about giving everything you got to make sure that child has everything it needs to make it in this life.

But to me, suicide and having a child are equally selfish acts. They are just at opposing ends. (one is taking a life, the other, is bringing life)"



The word "cruel" was never used by me in any of my posts when referring to having a child and it certainly wasn't intended.

Suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problem. Life itself is temporary. Make the most of it. We are selfish creatures by nature. An infant cries to get its needs met. It does nothing in return but demand more: attention, food, diapering. We never grow completely out of this.
Kill yourself = selfishness
Stop someone from killing themselves = selfishness
Kill yourself - you inflict pain on those who love you, depriving them of all you might have offered.

Most people develop a capacity to cope with stress, and disappointment, some are not raised in an environment that contributes to such development.

Then you have neglected offspring, and the Padded Children.

By the time they encounter the world they are unequipped to met what a well developed person takes in stride.

So if such undeveloped people are more prone to contemplating suicide, there is no way they are the sane ones.

It is moronic to even suggest that suicidal thoughts equal sanity.

The statement "Death is easy." Is an insult to people who over come depression, to excel, and contribute to their environment.

So my question is.

How Pathetic Can people get?

Hey Dab, what about a man who just lost his wife and child in a car wreck?

Certainly, suicidal thoughts are pretty normal in that instance. Would you not agree?

My point is that this thread is smelling like glitter on suicide,
like it is so fabulous to think, and contemplate, and so brave.. it has lets paint with all black, and appear deep written all over it.

What if we are the insane ones, for wanting to put up with life for so long?
That is irrational thinking, and is coupled with the opening statement leaves little doubt to the threads lean.

Would you not agree that the thread is a bit ambiguous?

as well as Gratuitous.

"Death is easier then Living? How EMO is that?

I would agree. However, some are trying to keep it focused.

Certainly, there are those who would exploit such a thread to their own ends. But, it is a topic worth discussing.

I mean, everyone who has contemplated suicide cannot all be insane.

Just as there are murderers found competent to stand trial.

I'll Ask.

Vampcica, for perspective, does people being worried, and miserable around you make you happy?

Are you afraid that people will think you are shallow?

Do you introduce morbid scenarios into general conversations?

Death is not easy nor is it clean. That people have thoughts of ending it all at some point in their lives is probably a true statement. It is more difficult to face the pain and learn to find happiness again than to simply end it. You cannot grow if you are dead. You cannot do anything except feed the worms! Easy way out is simply lazy and extremely selfish.

Those morbid fantasies of watching everyone around you mourn after your gone are just that- fantasies.

Zombie, I do understand your point, and I appreciate your clarification, however...the statement of cruelty I addressed was brought up in this thread "in the course of discussion," equating suicide and childbirth as being "selfish" acts. I inherently do not agree with that, but again, it is only my opinion.

I think at the heart of this, it is certainly not a cut and dry topic and however many bad things there are in this "cruel world"..there happens to be a lot of good things in it too. How you live in it or how you die in it, is inherently up to the decisions of the individual, their society and upbringing, and for a lot of us...it comes down to how you brain got wired in your early development.

Essentially, nobody is perfect and suicide is neither selfish or selfless...is is simply death... and death, in and of itself is a discomforting notion to those of us who choose to live. I can certainly compile a list, longer than the many ways to die by suicide, that could illustrate the selfishness of humanity.

In my mind and in my heart, the death of anyone, no matter the route taken...is a death that should be considered and grieved, but unfortunately...there are a lot of selfish people who read the headlines or even live next door and could care less..not because they "don't care"..but because they become "immune" to it...you get "used to it"...and you learn not to pay attention...Death...as all other things..."happens to someone else."

When it happens to someone else, it becomes nothing more than juicy gossip and funerals/wakes replace family and high school reunions, often standing in place of the local bar scene where one meets their potential new mate...either way, it's morbidly selfish all around when someone dies, ...that or you can just count yourself another definition of Jeff Foxworthy's "You Might be a Redneck."

i do think that its a selfish act. a slap in the face of all those that do care...that would have wanted to help.

some believe that your life is a lesson, and to "skip out of class" is to have to repeat the lesson.

ive heard of many fathers that suicided in their own home...leaving their body for their wife or children to find.
how vile is that?

ive known of high school kids that did the same...dying so their parents can find them...
so the parents for the rest of their lives feel guilt, feel pain, and just the lose of their child.

i understand the whys...when i was a teen i was very tempted to die when i was 16, after my first love was killed by a drunk...but in my heart i knew she would have slapped me for thinking it.
so i continued to live...and in time discovered that things always improve.
once the pain has passed, things get better.

~W~

This thread has been automatically closed for length.