The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

First and far most I am not bashing Vampires I understand that many people live a life as such and I completely respect that. I am fascinated with Vampires and am trying to understand.

My question "Are you a Vampire?" is solely to comprehend the connection with VR members who do claim to be Vampires and the description of a Vampire given. Is there anyone here who claims to be a Vampire as described on What is a Vampire? The description doesn't say a thing about Psy Vampires or Elemental Vampires. Where did all those labels come from and why use the label of Vampire?

I hope I am not disrespecting anyone, it is not my intention and I apologize now if I have by asking.

The definitions you find here are out of dictionaries and things like that. They are not community definitions. Some consider it a genetic condition, some a spiritual thing, some both and then there are of course fringe ideas that are very different in view. Most often an affliction such as the V-5 virus. The general community considers that not to be fact and something drummed up on the internet. I am using the word fringe to mean very minority viewpoints. None of these things will usually be found in dictionaries, encyclopedias and the like. If you were to go read what some of the members of the VVC believe you would see that they vary. Many do identify with the word vampire as more of an aesthetic or archetype. It is within the community that you find many different types of vampires but you find that in folklore as well. Most of the ideas about fangs and such are in fictional writings. What I have found is usually slashing the throat, projecting from the grave or taking the lifeforce such as in the Leannan Sidhe which is different in form on the Isle of Man. There are just as many described as female as male. Superstition is something else, and that is where people skew facts. There are so many crossovers between the vampire and the werewolf in both folklore and fiction but not so much in the community but some do identify with the wolf. Many identified as vampires are not, they are angels, demons, demoted gods and things like that.

Vampirics need energy from a source outside themselves but not as a vendetta as in some folklore/fiction and for most that is from other humans who are not vampirics, most of the time. It can be through blood drinking although some are stating it is not energy in the blood that draws them, another issue. Many state that everything else falls under Psy Vampirism. Again not all agree. These are merely feeding styles and not really types of vampires. A vampire is a vampire is a vampire. Perhaps as some state people weren't so vocal at first about pure energy feeding from various sources because the blood drinkers were so...well many believe if you don't drink blood you aren't a vampiric which is the word I prefer. When all is said and done, in a way you are preying on something else which is basically what the historical vampire is said to do no matter how they are described but much of that is very old legend discounting fiction. It is about energy exchanges from a variety of sources and quite frankly in the case of blood, I think it has to do with various hormones some need to boost energy levels and their immune and nervous system. This of course is a controversial viewpoint. If you come in close contact with another person in some metaphysical viewpoints there is an energy exchange but the difference is for the average person it is an unrecognized connection but for vampirics it is something that boosts their energy levels. It affects them physically as opposed to the other type of thing where people are not feeding on the exchange.

People were different and their values were different long ago and that has been carried over into dictionaries. An example is the word coven being a group of 13 witches. Some of the writings regarding vampires come from different time periods and this is also why there are differences but I would say read Joseph Laycock's book and that will give incite from someone who has no vested interest and is not apart of the community or an occultist, he is actually a theology student. As for whether anyone is a vampire, some are comfortable saying that to other groups of people outside the community and some do not want to discuss it beyond community groupings or friends, including me for the most part at least in any detail other than belonging to certain organizations and names used.

AsphaltTears thank you for understanding my reason for questioning. I will in fact try to read the book you recommended.

No, vampires only exist in fairytale.

"I need to drink blood" "I need to feed off energy".


Lol, my ass.

Catharsis thank you for posting. There are humans that drink real blood, unfortunately I don't know enough about it to say much on the subject, but I am aware of it.

To be a vampire, one only needs to have the belief they are a vampire and follow the doctrine. It is no different than the belief that one is a Mormon, Catholic, Buddhist, ect... The belief that you belong to one of those aforementioned groups is acceptance in the group and a following the doctrine of it's teachings. The act of being is in faith of being.

When you consider that fairytales were for adults originally and were toned down by writers because they were too explicit, that is funny and I don't think any of them such as Cinderella which has more than 200 versions, has any reference to vampires. Generally which is funny, fairytales aren't usually about fairies either. I have a whole website devoted to fantasy and fable. It is fine if someone believes vampires don't exist but it doesn't make it fact, lol. Neither does anything I have to say make it fact. I just answered the question about the differences. I guess that means he isn't a vampire. This is why many wouldn't probably answer this question and stand up and raise their hand stating, "look folks, I am a real live vampire."

It's a real controversial topic. You should read about the symbiont theories for the reason for blood drinking vampires. You will find that on Winged Wolf's website. So it is just the difference in viewpoint as to what could exist and what others believe exist, hence the variance in definitions.

Yes controversial indeed. However, to identify is to negate. No one need stand up and say I'm a real vampire. Perhaps my curiosity of something that I have always been fascinated by needs more research. :) Thank you kindly for your posts.

Thus far, from what I've read...with the exception of Upir's research...much of anything mentioned regarding the sexual vampire is propagandic in nature...not much really regarding its definition except that sexual vampirism is "very dangerous"...what? and exchanging other bodily fluids isn't?

I've seen plenty of communities on psi and sanguinarian vampirism, were, and otherkin postings...but not much from the succubus/incubus side of vampirism. Any thoughts or opinions regarding this variation or vampiric definition anyone? Just curious.

I'm kinda confused with the question - that or I'm crazy.

Anyways, here's a quote (or probably just my rough paraphrasing):

Giving up on the world and giving in to damnation is man's last resort. Thus making him into a vampire.

- Anne Rice

Not meaning to monopolize anything but I am in close contact with many in the community so this is a brief list of types as compiled by a research project. Hope this helps those who want to know what those in the community, well some believe and why they believe themselves to be vampires generally connected to feeding style and for some, lifestyle.


Types of Vampires listed in the community.


Ambient Vampires: Those who are able to feed off the ambient psi energies of a group or crowd of individuals.

Ascension Vampires: Those who have the ability to feed off psi or pranic energies but do so by choice rather than necessity from a condition induced requirement. They typically adhere to higher spiritual growth-based and innate or inborn ability philosophical viewpoints.

Astral Vampires: Those who feed from the life force energies of entities within the astral realm or subtle reality.

Chaotic Vampires: Those that typically incite negative or hostile energies in either an individual or group situation causing an increase in emotional energies from which they are able to feed. Such vampires are able to readily feed from frenzied or unpatterned energy.

Dreamwalking vampires: Those able to enter into a person's dream, and feed from the psi energies within the dream. They can be invisible observers in the dream, or they can manifest themselves within the dream.

Eclectic Vampires: Those who are able to feed using all psychic and sanguine methods, but who also incorporate astral, elemental, and other feeding methods into their vampyrism.

Elemental Vampires: Those who are able to feed on the natural energies of the elements from naturally occurring events such as weather phenomena (ie. storms, etc.) Some claim they can take energy from the wind or waterfalls and things like that as well.

Hybrid Vampires: Those who are able to feed using both psychic and sanguine methods. Typically hybrid vampires exhibit a tendency or preference to feed more from one method than the other.

Pranic Vampires: These are an extension of both sanguine & psi vampires that involves feeding from the psi or prana of a person.

Psi Vampires: Feed on Pranic, chi, ley, psychic, or spiritual energies. Psi feeding is typically carried out with other individuals (donors), natural (elemental), or man-made energy sources.
(Most psi do not have donors despite what they say)

Psy Vampires: Some differentiate between this and Psi and they say when spelled this way they feed on "Psychic" energies only as opposed to the definition above and would exclude that from the feeding style above.

Soul Vampires: These are able to feed directly off the energy of a person's soul. Soul vampires will sometimes gain some or all of the abilities of the person they are feeding from.

Tactile Vampires: Those who feed from direct touching or coming in contact with another person.

Tantric Vampires: Those who feed on the psi energy generated from engaging in sex or lust with special attention paid to the energy released at the moment of orgasm or using tantric principles.

There is also the Eros or Succubus/Incubus not to be confused with the folkloric. Male or Female sexual vampire, very seductive with a lot of charisma...if you meet one you will know.

Sanguine or Sanguinary Vampires: Feed by drinking of blood; either human or animal. The life force energy or "prana" contained within the blood is the source from which they feed. (Note: as I mentioned not all believe they are drinking blood to obtain the energy. Some believe it is merely an innate need for a healthy immune system, etc.)

In the past Damien DaVille coined the term pranic vampire which is really meaning an energy feeder, but others in the community started using the term to mean sexual vampire, although that is considered passe now because it really doesn't mean that. There are varying names depending on how they go about gathering the sexual energy. Many do use the terms succubus/incubus. Some would be from private exchange and others could be from involvement with the fetish community and being around such activity. It depends on the individual.

SangreNuestra
i think that your question was asked in a very polite and respectful manner. instead of writing you a war and peace sized dissertation on what a vampire "really" is, ill just state that based on those definitions, that i am not.

also pleased to see that the usual suspects didnt jump into this thread, to harass and bash (in every other post sometimes), but seemed to have decided to go elsewhere for their kicks. very nice.

i really do hope to see one of the undead post here. i rather doubt that they will...and if someone does, i think ill have a grain or two of salt with the claim, but that is just my opinion, and ill at least respect the claim as it takes a certain amount of guts to make it.
~W~

Thank you all for your intelligent and descriptive posts. I asked the question not necessarily to point any one person out, but to learn and understand. I have been fascinated with Vampires most of my life, and I'm sure that many people are, but perhaps fearing the response they never ask. I always ask questions about things or life or people that are not familiar to me. I asked knowing that I would get all kinds of responses good or bad. I am not offended by the way one feels about themselves. :)

I am sorry and apologize if my answer was long. I don't know how to explain it any other way. It isn't something you can give a page and number to and quite frankly, you will get differing answers from sources. It is a long list but it is a very complex topic and not everyone will announce they are a vampiric. I would like to see someone state they are a vampire based on a more fictional description. That would be interesting to say the least. Checking the archives here also helps to see what has been discussed in the past. I am assuming they still have them. The list I put up is the prevailing views of the vampire subculture (mostly US) but not the only views. Would I come in here and say I am a vampire, no.

Oh no please no need to apologize for any post on this thread. Thank you for the long list I am copying it by the way to keep in my notes. I think it's awesome that you are going to the extent that you are to help me see with a clear mind.

There are a lot of good articles in the database if you are looking for definitions or things partaining to vampirism.

Thank you! I will look there as well. It's interesting to hear from the people of the community, somehow I think I can get a better understanding. It's something like and interview

I agree. The database is great you will find plenty of academic articles which rely on research to provide evidence. Its one thing to read an article but to get first-hand information from folk who live that particular lifestyle is invaluable. Good luck with your quest.

Plain and simple.

I do self indentify as a vampyre. I follow my own beliefs, though. I was born a vamp, just as I was born with brown eyes and dirty blonde hair.
I am not going to get into WHY I believe myself to be vampiryc, though.
It is not something you think about. You just have to feel it

LW ...also pleased to see that the usual suspects didnt jump into this thread, to harass and bash (in every other post sometimes), but seemed to have decided to go elsewhere for their kicks. very nice.


Oh... I don't know, LW... seems to me your unprovoked remark is itself just a bit harrassing and bashing of others who haven't said a word against you or anyone else here. Thus, why attack, still, even when none has "threatened" you?

As for the topic at hand... this is an oft-appearing question that goes to the very heart of the most foundational question constantly before us all in VR: What ... and thus, Who... is a "Vampire"?

Understandably, that question will continue forever... as also will be the varying answers to same.


- Upir'

UpirLikhyj? I have read many times, that Vampires are not understood and that "normal people" like myself, only criticize and are extremely judgmental of the Vampires lifestyle or claims. My sole purpose to ask is so that perhaps someone will bring to light that which is in so many peoples minds.

That sounds wonderful to me... I agree. As I stated, it is the foundational question any and all ought to consider re: the "Vampire" and the one question that shall continue to be asked and answered most of all.

Might as well throw myself into this...

Personally I find a lot of people who claim to be "Vampires" to be a joke. The kind of thing that makes me want to try and drive a rare stake through their heart. We all know the kind, Twilight caused there to be more of them. I find those that profess to be something like this have a little too high of a dose of fantasy in their lives. Which is all well and good, just a little disturbing when they try to impress this belief on others - and creepy.
Now as for the Psy vamps and other nonblood drinking classifications: I've met people that seem to suck the energy out of those around them and those that seem to thrive off of the sexual energy of a crowd. Never really ran into one that did that and claimed to be a Vampire or anything else. Ran into plenty of Vampires that claimed to be able to feed off energy, so far none have been able to convince me.
Then we have your blood fetishists. That's what I equate the majority of the vampire mentality to, and the category I fall into. It's more of a sexual thing for me. These individuals can claim to be vampires, but in the end they haven't shown to be anything more than humans that like blood. Drinking blood does not a vampire make. Any one who can stomach it would then be a "Vampire" instead of just weird.

But as for our textbook vampire, or anything like it that has sprung from disease, angels mating with who the hell knows what, curses, or what have you...You are not going to find Lestat or Dracula on an internet forum...just people that pretend to be something else & ass holes. Trolls hang out on messageboards. Plus I'm sure if one day an actual Vampire, straight out of myth, were to wonder onto the internet...modern science would cut it up, put it on slides and prove me 100% wrong about the existence of Vampires...or it would kill itself.
Nothing is good enough to hide forever, especially when dealing with humanity. Don't you think if there were the possibility for vampire to be anything more than a myth that some one like Richard Dawkins would already be sticking a thermometer up it's rear & taking cell samples?

So accordingly, sexual as it is for you, what would you determine as defining of vampirism in today's culture since you so doggedly denounce what it is not?

Just curious...:)

Actually, I think she's defined quite well what she feels vampires are today: pretenders with too much fantasy in their lives trying to mimick that which they think are "Vampires."

And frankly... I agree with her.

As currently defined by modern pop culture, which itself is founded upon the fictions of 18th-20th Century novel writers, "Vampires" are fanged undead bloodsuckers. If any such actually existed, I have to agree that I would expect some legit scientists and/or anthropologists to have found at least ONE body of either such a vampire or that which should be far easier to find: a single vampire victim drained of blood with puncture wounds in the neck. And yet... we find nothing. Absolutely, nothing.

Thus, it seems to me that either there are no such beings as "Vampires" or else... our definition of the "Vampire" is wrong and we are looking in the wrong places for beings displaying the wrong characteristics.


- Upir'

Exactly my thoughts Upir...:) I was simply curious as to what those other characteristics might be since that which is defined being "not" a true vampire based upon fictional, Hollywood accounts was so completely covered in its entirety.

I would just like to learn what her ideal of the "flipside" to the "true" vampiric coin is...that's all.

You know what amazes me, no matter what era you look at people always put themselves at the center of everything. They assume that they are the pinnacle of everything and that because they see themselves as modern that they can be sure of everything around them. Nothing but what we know to be true could be out there waiting to slap our belief system silly but yet scientists get slapped stupid every time.

This egotistic view is one that man has had for ever and it never seems to change even in the retrospective rear view mirror called reality.
Every aspect of mans existence from past to present, all of what we are and how we got to where we are is open for debate and is really just guess work at best.
In fact a vast city — which is five miles long and two miles wide was just found underwater off the Bay of Cambay in India. what they have found already will force Western Archaeologists to Rewrite History again.
The site was discovered by chance last year by oceanographers from India's National Institute of Ocean Technology, who were conducting a survey of pollution. Using side scan sonar, they identified several huge geometrical structures at a depth of only 120 feet.
Debris already recovered from the site — including construction material, pottery, sections of walls, beads, sculpture, and human bones and teeth — has been positively carbon dated to be 9,500 years old.

Whether it be dinosaurs or ancient cultures with amazing building practices... for cavemen that is!!
We take the stories we like and call it history and the rest is labeled folklore and written off.
The idea of the vampire - a creature that lives or consumes the blood / life force of humans is in every culture dating back to the start of what we think to be developed society. This ideology is present from all over the world... by cultures that have no common relation.
But it doesn't fit with any modern view of history so into the circular filing cabinet it goes... to be laughed off by anyone who isn't a writter of short stories.


The fact is that any deep bit to the neck with a ton of blood loss would have been seen as an animal attack to most anthropologists or scientist and would certainly have been the conclusion an average person or doctor at the time would have found to be the case. Just because someone hasn't found a vampire victim drained of blood with two tiny puncture wounds in the neck is a comical assumption at best.

My belief in vampires stems from religious belief's and practice. It is not the vampire defined by Hollywood, it is a label identifying a member of my religion. Stating with certainty that it does not exist only shows your arrogance and paranoid belief's and neither is fact.

This is getting very interesting for me, thank you all for your posts, I can see why people like me become so confused ha ha. Even amongst the Vampire community there are different ideas about being a Vampire, whether it be that they believe they are the undead as described on "What is a Vampire" or even if they just have this fantasy about it or live the lifestyle. Everyone has a belief and everyone's belief is just as strong as the other, as strong as my beliefs are to me. So is that all it is just a belief? If nothing has been proven then from my point of view as a "normal human" I would think that if there were such a Vampire in existence not only would scientist be interested, so would the population of the world. All of you make very strong points and I respect your posts.

I have been messaged to my in box. About the real reason I want to know and why I questioned. I am a normal human being, I am curious just like other normal human beings are. Do you not ask questions when there is something you may not be familiar with, instead of bashing or looking the other way? I don't like to make judgment on anyone for anything, hell my goal in life is to leave this world with absolutely no conflict with anyone or anything, but I would like to know about everyone and everything or at least as much as possible before I do go.

If there is something about me that anyone wanted to know and if the shoe fit I would answer to the best of my being, simply because someone wants to know. Like they say I have nothing to hide.

I am not after "Blood" I am after the truth. I want to know other than the people that actually drink human blood, what else can a Vampire be but made up to fit anyone who likes the label of Vampire? There are so many different types and why is that?

You know I was watching a show some kind of real crime stuff, which is rare I don't even watch T.V. There was a guy who kidnapped a girl sexually assaulted her and drained her blood with a syringe. He had her captive for days until she got the strength to leave. So he was arrested and put in prison for many years. He really believed he was a Vampire and could not live without blood, but guess what? He didn't have a drop of blood the entire time he was in prison and when he was released an older frail man he no longer believed he was a Vampire. So news like that is what makes a normal person like me curious. Is there good and bad in being a Vampire like there is good and bad in being normal? I want to know and this web site I felt was the best one of them all to find out.

SangreNuestra,

When it comes to Vampirism I like to think of it sorta like a trip to the supermarket.
You have a store with all of it's products lined up on the shelves think of that stuff as data - information.

When you pick it up and you take it to the check out and you pay for it, then the information becomes your personal knowledge.
When you get it home and you cook it up and then consume it, that's when it becomes understanding of knowledge.

Only once you have used the information in this way, gained the energy, the power form it and have had the ability to reflect on the understanding of how it fueled you... You see and understand if it was empowering or not, that is the moment information and knowledge become wisdom.

The problem is that if you start out with junk information you end up with junk wisdom.

So when you go into the market looking for the meaning of vampirism and you walk out with Materialism or Darwinism, or any other ism you are already walking down the wrong path. So the key is to know who has right information in the first place.

And just like with food and junk food when you see it you will know what is right and what is wrong.

Severus, thank you.

As Upir noted and as Severus so well illustrated in his examples...nothing is as it seems. There will always be an arguement between the traditional and contemporary whether speaking of religious views, political ones, or scientific and historical ones. Simply put, is it possible for the norm of humanity to ascertain the capacity of acceptance of change regarding that which is presently defined.

The terms and definitions of vampirism has changed in its notions and interpretations over the centuries...much as all things legendary and shrouded in folk lore, the lines that outline the imagery of the eternal vampire are blurred and become impressionistic over time. As languages are born, they die out over the years, not because of annhiliation of a race, but because the terms and cultural changes of humanity change and the language spoken adapts to those transitions.

To see the changes in interpretation I refer to here, one only needs to open up a King James version of the Bible and any Shakespearean play to see the differences between "layman's" English and "high" English from 500 years ago...the two were written at about the same time period. Can anyone read either and make heads or tails of it comparitively to the modern spoken tongue known as English today? Thus, I attribute the changes in view regarding vampires, angels, demons, werewolves, and so many others...Big Foot anyone?

Thank you I appreciate your post as well as I did everyone else s. It makes me think that perhaps if we all asked questions or at least did some research or try and educate ourselves in things which we do not understand or that are not familiar to us, that maybe we would all be pleasantly surprised at the outcome and response. I am one to consider my sources. I will ultimately take in what my level of consciousness allows me too, as does everyone else whether they know it or not, that just depends on what they can allow themselves to see.

And for the record, I would never force my beliefs on anyone else. I keep them private, because of exactly that- they are MY beliefs. I don't need a bunch of followers to believe in something.
And for those of you who are curious, I do somewhat follow the vampiryc religion, but I also have a couple of different pieces of beliefs that I combine and make my own little system. I guess, if you really feel like labeling it, you could say I am agnostic in a sense.

Personally, I do not care if you believe or not. But when you do start "bashing" vampires/ beliefs, that is when you will get people mad.
Espicially since this is a VAMPIRE database website. If you don't believe or if you are not open to learning about supernatural criteria, then why are you on this site?
To make friends? Try Facebook.
To use as a dating site? Classy.
To make fun/ mock others' beliefs? Shallow.

I am not trying to complain, rant, or tell anyone to leave the site. But it does seem childish for people who are on a vampire-based website to be saying they don't exist. Seems like you are only here to make people mad and start drama.
And for the record... I exist, don't I? I live. I go to school. But I am a vampire.
Telling yourself over and over that we don't exist isn't going to make us vanish. We'll still be here when you grow a pair and accept the truth that has been staring you in the face for the past couple thousand years.
Sure... Vampires might not exist. But vampYres are just as real as you are.
That isn't going to change any time soon.

Thank you Vampichica for letting me know how you feel and being honest about it.

As for people who don't belong here, to be honest with you, this is open to the public, I am a Premium member and I have as much right to be here as anyone else. I am being honest and I am curious about Vampires, where else but a Vampire site would I go too for information? I'm not sure you directed any of that to me or not but if you did I appreciate you standing up for what you believe in. Thanks for your post.

There is a marked difference between someone dogmatically declaring that vampires do or don't exist and someone asking for or providing evidences of such, one way or the other.

I would hope folks here at VR tend to be more the latter than the former.

Either way, Vampchica, no one has ever attempted to declare that you don't exist, despite your claim that they did. However, just because you exist does not at all provide any logical evidence that vampires do also simply because you choose to call yourself a vampire. Were I to call myself a unicorn, such a declaration (regardless how upset I might become should anyone dare to disbelieve me) provides not a shred of proof that unicorns actually exist just because I do.

As regards the forum topic at hand, my own decades-long investigation into this subject has led me to conclude that beyond any doubt, there is a historical foundation for "Vampires." Thus, I do believe there is truth to such myths. However, that does not mean that anyone who happens to strongly believe that they are vampires are, in fact, what they claim. I hope you can understand the enormous difference between the two positions.

SangreNuestra is asking questions and we are providing answers according to our views and knowledge. And that is precisely what an open forum like this one is intended to provide.


- Upir'

TheMonsterYouAdore, you seem to take a very Freudian approach to vampirism. Alas, sometimes a pipe is just a pipe.
And i would as well wonder why you're on a vampire site if you think it's a joke for someone to be one.
i think you will find people here to be more diplomatic to you when you're diplomatic to them. You don't have to cater to every extreme belief, but you probably shouldnt expect kind words when you outright bash the people this site was originally intended for.
Anyway, never met anyone who fed off of the sexual energy of a crowd before... then again i've never strayed into a group of people who were all aroused either.
It's cool that you can say you're weird for liking blood, but not all people who drink it here do it for sexual reasons, it's kind of like saying everyone who smokes a bong is violent after seeing a minority who was.
(i do entertain the thought that the minority sees blood drinking as a fetish, and that the majority is simply silent in the debate)
But i can see where you're coming from, or so i think.
You mean the poser Vamps, the ones who are like 'OoOh ees vampayar... be carefuul round meee', basically your average Fluff in any community. Alas... not everyone is like that... and to treat them like they are is not going to be a very fulfilling experience

The word "vampire" is the idenity given for social and spiritual status within a given culture, just as the word "christian" is used.

Doru, you have made this statement three times thus far in this forum topic alone attempting to equate being a Vampire to being... say... a Presbyterian or a Jehovah's Witness. Yet on all three occasions, you provide no evidence or argument that justifies such a view.

While such a view certainly might appeal to someone seeking to start or follow some sort of "Vampire" church, yet this does not begin to explain the unique characteristics of the Vampire, whether those of fiction or of history. One does not join a religion and suddenly become the "Undead." One does not follow a philosophy and suddenly grow fangs, subsist on blood alone and be unable to withstand sunlight (using a few of the more common vampire characteristics of pop-culture). Nor can one become "baptized" and suddenly exhibit the insatiable sexuality of the truly multiorgasmic (the single most identifying characteristic of the historical male Vampire of Slavic lands).

Thus, 'twould be most interesting to hear any logical evidence-based reasoning why you believe Vampires become such via ascribing to a particular religious or philosophical mindset. Thank you in advance for your assistance with this question.


- Upir'

Doru you can't simply state that vampire is a spiritual status, because you are either stating that anyone who identifies as a vampire is unknowingly pledging themselves to this pseudo-religious ideal, or that anyone who does not agree that is its a religious ideal is not really a vampire but just someone who acts out vampiric traits and/or styles for fun.

*points up*
Exactly.
But I dont totally dsagree, either. I understand where they're coming from.

Upir, you misunderstand me.

Actually I disagree when you look at some of the Vampire Origin Theories that there are you find many do have a religious birth or undertone.

Examples of this are everywhere:

Cain:
The short version: Cain Killed Abel. God gave Cain a special mark and declared that any who killed him would suffer vengeance &"sevenfold."
Cain was then banished to the Land of Nod, east of Eden. To Some Cain is considered the first vampire.

Cursed:
Some people believe that they were cursed or Damned by God...or Any Deity. Pretty much, similar to the Cain theory.

Egyptian transcendence:
The Egyptian alteration refers to a period in time in which a group of souls chose to be altered, for their spiritual pursuits.
The resulting process was that they became vampiric.But are able to progress spiritually with full awareness of past lifetimes.

Lilith:
In Jewish mysticism Lilith is the first wife of Adam, who is eventually cast out of Eden. she refused to comply with Adam's demand that she submit herself to him, and in the end fled from him by using the Ineffable Name. Adam then complained to God about his loneliness, and the creation of Eve followed, together with the "Fall" - and the Expulsion from Eden. Adam, blaming this on Eve, separated from her, and for a time reunited with Lilith, before finally returning to Eve. Lilith bore Adam a number of children in this interval, who became demons. After Adam's reconciliation with Eve, Lilith assumed the Queen ship of the Demons; in some kabbalist versions she is the consort of Samael, in others she remains Single.

Demons:
One of the origin beliefs is that these demons were actually the first Vampires. And that Eden, Is actually referring to the spiritual plain, the expulsion is the transcendence of the spirit to the physical world. Therefore when Lilith bore the children these demons actually vampires.
To others, Lilith is considered to be the first Vampire.

Nephilim or Watcher Theory:
Due to the Head heart hands relationship of some psychic vampires, it has left part of the community to come up with the theory that they are remnants of the Nephilim.½ or part angelic or fallen angel. The Nephilim were the children of Human mothers and a group of Angels Called "Watchers." One of the legends says that a single Nephilim survived by hiding in a cave that was sealed water tight. Hence, was able to propagate a line later.

As you can see the spiritual side of Vampire belief is as common as the Disease, Porphyria, Evolution theories.

Severus, setting aside entirely the many arguments that I could abundantly provide invalidating all of these as vampires (with the exception of the "Watchers," who are indeed the progenitors of those later falsely vilified as "vamipres"), yet there is a far more key argument to make here:

Just because religion might have created or chosen to regard these various persons as somehow vampiric most certainly doesn't make such supposed vampires in any way religious, themselves.

There is nothing that indicates that Cain, Lilith, demons, the "Cursed" (whoever these are supposed to be) or the "Watchers" were ever religious at all. In fact, was it not all of these in mythology who openly and vehemently REJECTED religion?

If you disagree, then please provide for us any evidence indicating what religion Cain, Lilith, demons, etc., practiced that made them "vampires."

Thanks in advance!


- Upir'

Very fascinating...

I do hvae egyptian ties, myself

After looking at the list Asphalt has provided,I think that with as many Vampire types there seem to be..I would dare say that we would all be vampires,because in one way or another (several on that list alone)we take and utilize energy.
So in that respect,yes,I guess I would say I am a vampire..like all other humans.

i feel that being a vampire entirely depends on the persons perspective. a person could feed off of another's energy like a sexual vampire, and be classified like that. some people may be a vampire and dont kno it. the fairy tale version is a lil hard to believe, and idk if those do exsist, but there are types out there, you jus need to be open and except all.

Ocy, i half suspect the need for that many different types of vampire is just to make the title available to whoever wants it.

Upir, i'm reminded of the era in which Christianity was spreading, learning about all the other religions and creating a fieldbook of demons including every other religion's god or spirit.

Doru stated:

The word "vampire" is the identity given for social and spiritual status within a given culture, just as the word "christian" is used.


he means that is how a group (whatever there beliefs) choose to define themselves and the lifestyle they lead.
I made not attempt to validate any one theory or group but simple stated my own affirmations when I said:

"when you look at some of the Vampire Origin Theories that there are you find many do have a religious birth or undertone.

Please Note: " the birth or undertone" part.


I did not say that they are religious but that the root of the myth in which the ideology which doru spoke of I have heard and they do in fact come from within religious context and content from which their respective historical aspects are found. you may interpret them and subscribe to them or not. that was my only point.


But I will say this...
Most cultures through out history have defined the term vampire to mean a creature or being that feeds off of human beings to sustain their own existence.
The modern version as viewed by the blood sucking undead is noting more than the literary works of the last century or two.
Real Vampirism is nothing of the sort and it is why so many have lost there way in the pursuit of the truth...

As I said: "If you start out with junk information and you end up with junk wisdom."

I must agree in the historical allegory that Upir refers to regarding earlier comments. Not all things given as examples in this thread as origins of vampiric literature are based in religious birthings....However, what we have concurrently in our recent literary history..is very much tied to religious influence and thus we have a litany of names and labels to go along with the pot calling the kettle black.

So much of our personal philosophy is based upon our ideology. Considering so many sources and unknown quantitive works that are not currently running the New York Post's "Best-Sellers List," it would be difficult at best for the majority of the populace to say that any one particular denomination or sub-culture has the history of that ideology based upon concrete facts... especially as Severus so well points out the problematic dilemma of junk information = junk wisdom.

As I and Upir have stated in other postings elsewhere on this forum, to be sure you don't believe in every thing you read or come across, it is usually best to follow a thread of common sense in checking out the sources and resources of any given author...it is what your English teacher referred to as a "Bibliography."

Certainly, read and educate oneself to the best of your ability, but by all means...be of a sound mind in examining your beliefs on every level...as Vampirechic stated so well regarding her beliefs...and as it is apparent in many spiritual belief systems throughout, there is no "one size fits all."

There is generalization of beliefs and then there are individual scrutinizations...those things within a belief system that just do not fit but are minor enough to change according to personal or community theology. Not all of spirituality is a religion...as well, not all vampires are spiritual or consider their being in existence a religion.

Being a Christian denotes nothing except being a follower of Christ. However, Christians do not always identify with being Christian as much as they identify themselves upon the community they belong to...the specific church they adhere membership to. As found within the Christian community, it is also true for other communities as well...vampiric by nature or otherwise...there are always those who use the community for prominent standing, posing and posturing...to build a reputation for themselves as though to say "look at me," and thus it is no longer a community but a solitary pursuit for selfish reasons.

Then there are those of us that question, not for the sake of bashing, but for the sake of the query itself...to know, to gain understanding and to do so without worry for being excommunicated from the church or the community...that is what this forum so well encompasses and illustrates. It is not about who is right and who is wrong, as much as it is about understanding where we each stand and knowing the inner sanctity of what lies deep within our human hearts...Insatiable Curiosity....and Passion.

The "vampyre" definition that I embrace is a " real being and not the concept found around the word and in history as pure myth created by man, has it's roots on Ancient Egypt." (Asetian Bible) Thus, "vampyre" by my understanding is a being that drains life force from others, yet within the guidelines of the established religion of The House of Aset.

"Dare we risk ignoring a force whose
strength lies in the fact that no one
will believe in its existance?"

- Sean Manchester -

The choice is always up to the individual. A cynical nature does make one appear wise, just cynical.

Sangre .. I am not a vampire..I do not believe in the Anne rice type of vampire .. I do feel that energy can be transmitted, both at and against ones will.
So why am I here? Cancer said it best.."there is nothing more beautiful then goth"

Upir was not being cynical Doru, but simply stating the obvious as he is prone to do. As I understand by your posts, you embrace vampirism as a true religion and of that you have every right to deduct in your reasoning regarding that issue. However, to state that all other literature both current and historical as "pure myth" is blundering faux pax in an attempt to add concrete to the precarious foundation upon which you stand and shout from the roof tops, especially when you regard the Asetian Bible as the allegorical gospel truth...which as I understand it, it based upon such historical texts that you denounced as pure myth.

For those of you not sure of what Doru is referring to, here is a simple one-page link regarding the Order of Aset Ka:

http://www.asetka.org/order.shtml

As what few verses are cited, it is a recent publication of 2007...hmmm...one of those "modern" texts that are also categorically termed as pure myth? Surely not, and I understand your intentions, however, Vampirechic said it best when she stated she is not one to push her religion on anyone. Considering that the order you belong is based upon keeping the deeper mysteries silent, I am not sure as to what point you are driving at here except to tell everyone in this post that their own interpretation of vampire is a mythological one and yours is the only one that is true and right. It smacks of self-righteous religious narcissism.

I agree with Doru.....It is close to a relegious way for me....I solely believe im a vampire and no1 can tell me different. I do drink blood as well.......I have been this way since i can remember.

As so clearly evidenced microcosmically in but the last several entries of this thread alone, those who believe themselves to be "vampires" here do so based entirely on their own desire to so consider themselves. And, as stated in the entry above... "no one can tell (them) different," regardless the evidences countering such a belief and their own lack of any such in support of same.

Again... as stated so very profoundly by Blaise Pascal:

People almost invariably arrive at their beliefs not on the basis of proof but on the basis of what they find attractive.

I am going to expose way to much of myself on this post but i see I have no Choice.


I am Asetian.
My belief system is based on information given within Symbolist hieroglyphs found within Egyptian Ideologies.
I know what real Vampirism is and so did the Egyptians.
This belief system has been in place since long before any of the acknowledged religions of today were even a thought.
In fact the context of the Hermetica an ancient Greek text is entirely Egyptian in it's ideology. Since the Greeks had no belief in reincarnation and the hermetic belief system is based partially on the transformation of the soul it is egyptian knowledge rewritten. That transformation of the soul is only found in Egyptian doctrine, it is also what we believe to be real definition of Vampirism.

This ideology, is the basis for the hermetic belief, which is in turn adopted in part by the Romans and Muslim occupations. It is then carried in an even more degenerated form up into Europe and the Italian Renaissance and becomes shoot off ideologies and practices such as Alchemy. Which created even more schools of thought and more great minds like Issac Newton, who was more of an Alchemist and numbered symbolist than anything else.
You can debate that all you like but the fact remains that almost all of the forefathers of modern thought and some of the greatest minds in history learned what they knew from Ancient Egyptian's Arcane Schools.

A literal who's who list of history is made up of those who studied scared text form the Arcane schools of Egypt... Pythagoras, Plato, and Alexander the great are just a few individuals who self admittedly studied for decades with the Egyptian Mystery schools.
The great library of Alexandria was an Egyptian City and library of Arcane knowledge which was simply renamed out of Egyptian respect for Alexander the great.

The term Pagan and pantheistic rituals aka magic that led to the Wiccan beliefs was the Roman Catholic churches attempt to label and vilify Egyptian doctrines which they ultimately wanted to weed out.

The example list goes on and on...
Just because we choose not to stand there, point at history and say: "There it is, oh Look and there it is again" doesn't mean it was created in 2007. Kemetic Orders have been around for ever and so has the belief sytem of Vampirism that we hold from those beliefs.

You want to have a glance at what our forefather found out about the hidden knowledge the Egyptians left behind??

Grab the book written by: Rene Adolphe Schwaller de Lubicz, AKA Schwaller de Lubicz (1887-1961)
Known for his 15-year study of the Temple of Luxor in Egypt and his subsequent book "The Temple of Man".

This mans life work is the tip of the iceburg when it comes to Ancient knowledge and the understanding of life and the universe of which the Egyptian mastered... but never the less Prepare to have your world turned upside down.

I am a vampyre. As to which type? I feed of psychic energies, as well as blood. I was literally born needing blood, and I rarely have my own energy, thus needing to feed off others. Sometimes I will go into dreams, however I know not if I merely feed of dreams or enter them for other reasons to do with the psychic region of myself.
As to whether or not vampires exist, it is in one's viewpoint, and everyone has their truth. No one can prove they do or do not exist, and if one thinks something to be true, then it's true. This is where true and false are opinion, just like any other religion or faith, or theory out there.
MY theory is that energy can be transmitted, people could need blood to live, and that everyone can manipulate energy for their own gain, whether to take or give.
I do know, though, that those not vampyric have a hard time keeping blood down...

*points up* My situation is close, with a few differences here and there, yes...

Upir, you need to understand that not everything needs to be supported to death with science and facts. Some things are essences that you just have to feel for yourself to understand that they/it exists.
No one can or should ever be forced to prove who or what they are to anyone else.

Take it into this sense: I am openly bisexual. But to prove it, should I make out with a girl and then a guy for anyone that asks? Says they won't believe that one person can have feelings for both sexes until they see it "proved"?
I have been asked to do this. Basically, you are calling me a liar until I prove your fact to that you can call me a slut.

If a vampyre had to prove they were so, then they would be tested, interrogated, and their entire life would be destroyed. Their privacy would be gone, and so forth.

I am curious as to what foundational beliefs have to be in place before someone accepts that road.. if Doru and Severus would be kind and share some of their turning-point experiences, if they have the time of course, we might all gain some insight.
I'm all for common sense and science, but both would say that nobody willingly believes something they find ignorant, which i can hope means experience has shown them otherwise.
But at any rate, it does seem like everyone here could use a hug.

That's interesting, i wonder if the human stomach could be conditioned to digesting blood on a regular basis (to quote fight club: "The human body can consume 2 liters of blood before it gets sick" though if a vegetarian of ten years eats too much meat, they'll get sick as well)

Is a cannibalist a vampie??

They feed off of the flesh and blood of human being in the manner that sustains them. Most would not deny that.
The idea that a vampire is dead is taken from the ideology of reincarnation that the soul has the ability to manifest it's self over and over again in physical form. Some literary artists did not feel this definition scary enough so they changed it to the living dead.



Cabrion,
Proof is in the understanding of the wisdom you have not the experiments you do.

I dare any one to prove threw information, or experimentation of any kind the link that shows man came from apes.

You Can't Do It... Period!!

So does that mean what you believe should not be believed?? No It is just something you look at and say I feel that is the right answer, that is what I believe I am. Funny how That rule seems to work just fine if you decide you want to see yourself as a wild harry animal but not for anything else.
It is down right hypocritical and self supportive the very things some point and accuse others of doing.
It is easy you do experiments when you use circular reasoning to lead you back to what you want to find... that's your science huh. lol


Vampirism is spiritualism, it is evolved consciousness at it highest form, I have said this and proven it in countless other forums and threads time and time again. Given example and my own experiments to support what I say and some have bothered to spend the time to piece it together for themselves. But I never, never preach - I point and say that's where you will find it, when you understand come back and I will show you the next journey of self discovery you need to take.
It is always your journey - your choice - your wisdom.

*Huh*
One last time...

Again true knowledge always starts by looking inward not outward... When you are calm and without the outside world baring down on you there is a simple exercise you can use to determine who you really are.

Just sit down, close your eyes and clear you mind. Start off by noticing your physical body (outside features) Fact: the idea that you are aware of it means that you must be more than your body. start applying this rule to other areas.

Become aware of your emotions the fact that you are aware of how you feel means that you are more than your emotions.

Finally turn your attention to your thoughts you will notice that thoughts just pop in and out of your mind without you actively thinking them. Because you are objectively aware of the thoughts in your mind, you must be more than your mind.

You will realise that whatever part of yourself you focus on there will always be a sense of awareness that is somehow above and beyond everything else. This inner awareness or inner essence is the real "you". It is the basis of all your experiences past and present, asleep or awake, "dead" or "alive" and it is eternal.

It is the consciousness... It is Your Soul.

Oh and Cabrion,

I have no problem discussing my beliefs and how I got there... But I won't discuss my past and my personal experiences in a public forum, that why they call them personal. lol
If you really want to know message me and I will share them.

*smiles and shrugs head* Upir and Silverhawk your arrogance only beseeches your ignorance. Vampires are not the “undead” and if you choose to restrict your reasoning to such bias, it is no wonder why you have failed to find facts.

Severus, my brother, I am honored by your comments and wisdom.

“Asetian vampires do not have pointy fangs, unnatural colored eyes, long razor nails and completely white skin. That belongs to the vampires in fiction and gothic lifestyle subculture.”
~ Asetian Bible ~

a vampire is not by definition an immortal. a vampire is simply a living being who drinks blood. in that case yes i am a vmapire. BUT i dont sparkle in the sun and i dont burn in it either..... i also dont have fangs i have sharp canines that are defined but no fangs. i just like the taste of blood. so therefor it your choice whether you are a vampire or not. (to many defintitions you pick the one u want)

*Upir and Silverhawk your arrogance only beseeches your ignorance. Vampires are not the “undead” and if you choose to restrict your reasoning to such bias, it is no wonder why you have failed to find facts.*

Excuse me, Doru, but arrogance should not be confused with presenting a sound debate...ignorance, in my experience, is what leads one to arrogantly denounce others as being "narrow-minded" and "biased."

As I recall in any of my statements or in Upirs, neither of us have described the vampire as you have quoted from your kemetic order's bible, thus I ask only one question...and perhaps this may be the one thing you can assuredly concede as an arrogant...even a sarcastic statement...as I take offense in being called arrogant, I'll gladly give you a taste of it...

...did you take class on reading only and forego that little part on comprehension or what?

btw...*HUGGGGGSSSSSS....please...don't be so freakishly haughty in this Doru..it is not becoming of you or me.

;)

Doru/Severus well said, but it is possible for energy and the soul to burn through the eyes and cause a noticable colour shift.Most have never seen this I know 5 that have 4 are Rave members. It is dangerous and you can die doing it so anyone reading this should not try it for kicks.
(Advice from G.Hawk)~Bows~

The eyes have it again...:P AN...please...by all means, elaborate if you will on this eye color thing you bring up from time to time...as I've given the known facts surrounding color changes in the irises before...however, I am just wondering what particular changes you are referring to? Just curious...:)

The colour is largely irrelevant and as you mentioned it has been discussed before.It is not something I wish to repeat in Public as it assists in identification. The important thing is during energy exchange sexual or material the eyes can change, starting as a strange Iris developing to a very unnatural glow.Lighting someone up from the head down through the teeth biting and by touch.

Please define UNDEAD...
1.That which has a death wish?
2.A Deathwish so great the soul is permanently damaged
3.A Deathwish so great the soul has left the body
4.A corpse repaired by supernatural power that needs YIN
5.A dead person where the soul has left but Dark forces bring them back again and again.
6.Tampering with DNa by unknown forces.
7.None of the above? in which case please speculate.

ah..well, thank you AN for that elaboration ...I understand your asssertions regarding changes of the irises do not have anything to do with actual shifts of blood pressure or dilation of the vessels feeding the muscle of the iris tissue during the energy exchange of sexual orgasm or other...but a means of identifying those out there that take on an unnatural glow afterwards? Still, it sounds like a reflection of the retina being more prevalent due to reactory dilation of the pupils after such exchanges.

...and GK, thank you so much for the list of definitions regarding the "undead." :)

Evolutionist do not see themselves as Apes.

It seems everyone has a different belief of what a "real vampire" is and that belief clouds the discussions in the forums. The word vampire means so many different things to each culture, yet each believe that a vampire drains energy from other life forms.

"You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."

C. S. Lewis

Doru - "You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."


FINALLY!!
Thank you... it is nice to know that Someone gets it and just when I was ready to walk away from this thread in disgust.

Maybe there's hope for you people after all.

I saw that quote on DoodleDevil on Kongregate.
Lots of cool quotes in that game.

"The important thing is during energy exchange sexual or material the eyes can change, starting as a strange Iris developing to a very unnatural glow.Lighting someone up from the head down through the teeth biting and by touch."

i've never heard of this ever. I've noticed that people have the expression 'Youre just glowing today!' but.. it's an expression.

Doru - Upir and Silverhawk your arrogance only beseeches your ignorance.

Seems to me countering an argument with logic and reason evidences intelligence not arrogance, while countering with insults and derision, as have you, most certainly bespeaks the reverse.

(BTW... the verb you sought for and missed was the one I used above: "bespeaks." The verb you chose ... "beseeches" ... means to ask or inquire, which renders your insult both nonsensical and meaningless.)


And yes, that is one of my favorite C. S. Lewis quotes. Though I don't understand your point in quoting it re: this topic.


- Upir'

Vampchica - Upir, you need to understand that not everything needs to be supported to death with science and facts.

My immediate reaction is to ask... why? Why is it I "need to understand" that science and facts are unnecessary? What is your reasoning for such a statement?

As with Doru, Severus and so many others in this thread, you make statements of belief alone and then disparage any facts contrary to or in contradiction of such beliefs. Why is that?

Both Doru and Severus believe in their "Asetian Bible" as though it contained actual historical truth, ignoring entirely the fact that Egyptians' belief in the afterlife and the soul's journey through it cannot be correlated either historically or conceptually with the "Vampire," much less via a book written by a photographer in 2007 who has no credentials whatsoever in Egyptology. Again... why do you all do this?!

As in the quote I gave from Pascal earlier... for them and you, your beliefs seem based not on any proofs or evidences, but instead simply because ... you like them. Were your beliefs based on conclusions following actual research and investigations, you would have already asked and had intelligently answered the many questions and counter-points I have raised in this thread alone such that you could answer my questions with the same answers you had previously discovered for yourselves. After all, my questions and concerns and doubts are very BASIC ones.

Instead, and quite tellingly so, all anyone can provide in response are the ad hominem attacks, insults and derisions received thus far.

Seems to me, if your "beliefs" and "religion" were based on truths, you all would have learned to treat yourselves and others with more respect.


- Upir'

asking that question only proves my statement more. Please, let me know when you realize my point. It is not something I can just Tell you.

Loved the quote, and I agree with Severus.

Silverhawk: Yes it's a sexual thing to me, it can be many different things to many people - even a self imposed delusion used to escape the confines of a boring life. A true vampire would e a predatory beast, not something sexy. Typically the predator and prey do no fall in love and have steamy vampire sex. A predator that preyed on the blood of humans would be a fearsome thing, we are a very ingenuitive and violent species, something that preyed exclusively on our existence would be vile - especially when you take into account that original myths would have come about during our nomadic when we were a species of hunter/gathers and much more anamalistic than we are now.

UpirLikhyj: Well said. I personally believe that if there were a race or a disease that created vampires there would be some sort of historical or genealogical evidence to show it. Many different beliefs shared similar stories about the thing that went bump in the night. Since blood has always held a very prominent place in nearly every religion that has existed it stands to reason that all these different beliefs would focus myths around it. The variations in the myths represent the different social norms and values of each culture. Many cultures also had myths about creatures that resembled werewolves/shapeshifters as well, the also had many positive myths about a horned god - however that god became represented as the Devil with the introduction of Christianity. Due to the need for religions to assimilate or destroy each other much of the purity of these myths became garbled as each dominant power asserted it's control over the cultures. This I believe accounts for many of the modern similarities we find in myths, especially since Christianity influenced the majority of major world cultures for 2,000 years.

Severus: There were actually two radiocarbon dates: one about 7500 years old and another about 9500 years old. I'm actually having a lot of trouble finding credible sources regarding this discovery. Which is odd since it was made around 2002? I don't think this really makes any one have to rewrite history. I mean they found a dwelling in Brittan that dates back more than 10,500yrs - which is quite a bit older than the city. Furthermore it’s believed that humans originated about 200,000 years ago in the Middle Paleolithic period in southern Africa. By 70,000 years ago, humans migrated out of Africa and began colonizing the entire planet.
Furthermore we are the center of things because we have made it that way. We are the only life form that adapts their environment to themselves. By conquering our surroundings we have made ourselves the center of them - at least until we wipe ourselves out.
So I suggest you familiarize yourself with the history of humanity and perhaps get with the real time line, rather than reading a little about some inconsequential find and trying to draw some baseless conclusion from it. Google is pretty easy to use and much better than getting your information from the "super market." lol Weekly World News is not a valid source of information...it's a valid source of funny as fuck XD
Also please stop using Judeo-Christian influenced mythology to support your claims.

Doru: since "Vampire" is a religious status to you, please explain what the characteristics of this status are. I do not deny that there are people out there that exhibit the characteristics of the modern vampire; however that no more makes them a genetic vampire than dressing in drag makes Lady Gaga a genetic women (yes she has a penis people, check YouTube). It actually makes the person using the title of "Vampire" the same thing as Lady Gaga - a mimic. Make Up, Surgery and Body modifications do not a Vampire make. I support alternative beliefs and lifestyles, but "Vampire" is still a title where you are concerned, not a race or disease or something that makes you not human.

SangreNuestra: Did people message you actually asking if you were looking for Vampire blood?
People like the man you described are not Vampires - they're just insane. Bat shit fucking crazy kind of insane.
So are these people:
Vampire Arrest #1
Vampire Arrest #2
Vapire Arrest #3
Man Claiming to Be A Vampire

To those out there that claim to be Vampires...do you really want to be associated with these fucked up embarrassments to creation?

vampchica4: Personally I'm here because VampireFreaks.com is all kiddie porn & pedophiles...nothing I really have any interest in. Plus some one needs to be a voice of reason at points; I mean there's all in good fun & then there's being insane. And at least UpirLikhyj is part way to being a Unicorn...I mean he does have a horn *cough*penis*cough*?

Cabrion: That was me being diplomatic. Trust me, I'm one of those straight forward kind of people. I know most people don't drink blood for sexual reasons, I was just throwing my experience in there (as I stated). It is a deviant behavior, one most people are pretty freaked out by - it does not make me a Vampire however. There is not a single case in medical history were a person died because they were unable to drink blood, there's been a ton of people that claimed they would - guess what? They lived. As for feeding off energy, that one is hard to prove, humans do eventually go completely insane if they are not around other people and can died from it. However I do not that that supports the idea of energy/psychic vampires.
"You mean the poser Vamps, the ones who are like 'OoOh ees vampayar... be carefuul round meee'," Any one calling themselves a "Vampire" is pretty much a poser or insane, unless it is a title directly related to religious practice or you have some irrefutable proof that you are something other than a human. It's like the people that think they're Jesus or Neapolitan or God. Don't take it the wrong way, I fully support these people in the "beliefs" I just still realize they are a bit detached from reality.


...and I'm done for the night...
Peace out

I feel compelled to address AN in the whole glowing eye thing.Again.
AN,What Silverhawk has written above and before in another thread is correct.I have also stated MANY times thruout the forum that the human eye has no Tapedum Lucidum.We do not have the mirror cells to produce eyeshine like animals and some fish do.Sometimes however,we can see the redeye effect which is light reflecting off blood vessels in the back of the eye in a flash photo etc....Or ,as I have also said before ,there is something abnormal about the eye that can produce whats known as "white shine" or leukocoria(sp?) .Our eyes are build to recieve ..not produce and radiate light.
And since everyone is on a roll with quotes? Guess I will throw one into the pot that fits here..

"The eyes are the window INto the soul"

I mean honestly,I have raked my brain thinking of something that could cause the human eye to actually glow as you described..and I just cant think of anything because of the way it is built.I can think of several things that might make the eye appear irridescent,but..
It would be pretty cool though.
Cab..loved the timing on your quote.
Obviously you believe this is a real, as you say it time and time again AN .Go let them look at your eyes to see if there is something different in the bio mechanics of them that has manifested itself somehow.I sure as hell would!!

I think im a succubus. it's like I feel the energy draining from a lover's body. Hope it doesn't sound too far out :-P

I'm curious as to what more there is to being a vampire than drinking blood?
I see a bunch of rules in a bunch of different places depicting how a vampire should act, but i'm not sure how it's a mental transcendence. It's quite possible it's already been said and lost in a body of text, but i would be very interested to discuss this. If the main forums are too open a place, please feel free to pm me.

TheMonsterYouAdore, i'm not sure that's the diplomatic version of diplomacy, and if i do say so myself it sounds like you're ruling it out entirely based off of meeting a couple posers. I severely doubt that any vampire out there isn't human, and honestly i dont think being inhuman is what vampirism is about in the first place. From what i've seen it's more or less a chosen belief system. Anyone clinging to it because it masks insecurity deserves the same title as anyone else doing anything to mask insecurity alone. Poser.

The Monster You Adore:

*Silverhawk: Yes it's a sexual thing to me, it can be many different things to many people - even a self imposed delusion used to escape the confines of a boring life. A true vampire would e a predatory beast, not something sexy. Typically the predator and prey do no fall in love and have steamy vampire sex. A predator that preyed on the blood of humans would be a fearsome thing, we are a very ingenuitive and violent species, something that preyed exclusively on our existence would be vile - especially when you take into account that original myths would have come about during our nomadic when we were a species of hunter/gathers and much more anamalistic than we are now. *

Thank you for presenting the flip-side to your coin...:) However, if the whole of humanity is ingenuous and violent....how then would a "true" vampiric predator be considered vile in hunting such violent and guileless prey? Many things in nature prey exclusively on specific species....it's called being part of the food chain.

As for our species, when it was consider nomadic and hunter/gatherers...and "more animalistic?"...how so?....as I've read on it, the Neanderthal was not just another cave man...in fact, regarding the size and shape of their skulls in comparison to ours, their subconscious was much more highly developed than modern brains.

Considering the sub-conscious is the seat of dreaming, spirituality, psychic phenomenon and essentially the hidden consciousness of the third eye...our hunter/gatherer ancestors would not be so "animalistic" as assumed by outdated evolutionary theologies still being played out like a broken record.

As well, the archeological record of other ancient civilizations (during which time which time we should all be hunting and gathering) points towards a higher intellect and consciousness achieved on many levels not otherwise reckognized officially by orthodoxy.

Upir, as always, thank you...your need for justification and common sense provides a solid balance and weight to these discussions. Dabs..as always, gotta love the "No BS" meter you so rightly throw in there from time to time.

Ocean, thank you for your supportive entry on the glowing eyes thing...all things considered, I'd still love a bit more meat to chew on from AN besides alluding to its being rare...only 4 on VR "known" to have experienced this...if so..what then are the common traits and characteristics of this phenomenon?

As for Doru..your last post was an excellent thought as Severus pointed out....however, we are in a body and thus it too is just as important as it ties us to the physical plane upon which we live and meet out our daily lives....it is a universal truth that many here, including myself, identify and understand. On that note, I submit this quote for Asetian considerations...:)

*"An affirmation is a definite declaration of opinion, belief or attitude, and, if true, inclines toward and becomes identical with truth. If the affirmation be false, however, it retires from truth as though abashed, thus negatively affirming truth by declaring itself to be dissimiliar. A negation is an affirmation through denial, and is the only method by which the Absolute may be approached."

Manly P. Hall - Mathematics, the Master Science from Lectures on Ancient Philosophies


I don't know about anyone else, but I agree with Cabrion...***HUUUUGGGSSS to everyone....:)

As for what I see a Vampire as being:
Something genetically different from the usual human make up that must feed off of humans in some manner as it only means of nourishment. If it feeds on human blood then it will die a horrible death by starvation if it does not have the blood, or sex or energy or whatever. Given the majority of myths I'd venture so far as to say this creature could resemble humans.
Personally I imagine it as being something large and of a reptilian or insect nature if it were to exist.

lol giant mosquito-human hybrid

Silverhawk,

Your words are poetry here and your reasoning and choice of quote were perfect. Your entry expressed far better than could I the thoughts and feelings in my head and my heart in attempting to compose a response to Vampchica and others here for whom their emotions rule and their intellect is not permitted to speak.

Thoughts and feelings, just as body and soul, were intended to operate not in opposition or contradiction... but in harmony. Only when both are truly understood and developed together can they learn to become one. And then, as you stated so well, Silverhawk, when both are found to be in perfect harmony on any question, any theory, any choice, any philosophical issue, any relationship possibility... can one know... know... that it is True and Right.

When will our Society ever again value intellectual acumen and discipline over emotional abandon and gratification? For while the latter reigns, the former cannot develop.


- Upir'

Upir posts: "Seems to me countering an argument with logic and reason evidences intelligence not arrogance, while countering with insults and derision, as have you, most certainly bespeaks the reverse.

(BTW... the verb you sought for and missed was the one I used above: "bespeaks." The verb you chose ... "beseeches" ... means to ask or inquire, which renders your insult both nonsensical and meaningless.)"

Again you speak, but utter words that make you sound ignorant. First of all, you do not know the meaning I sought to divulge. However, it is implore. *Definition of IMPLORE. transitive verb. 1: to call upon in supplication : beseech. 2: to call or pray for earnestly.* Again you were wrong! Maybe you should define your own words and let others define their's, yet that would not suffice ( *Definition of SUFFICE. intransitive verb. 1: to meet or satisfy a need)* your ego. I thought I would help you out with that one, so you wouldn't hurt yourself. *smiles*

Nonetheless, I have divulged all that I choose to divulge concerning vampires. The choice to believe information on any given subject, is just that, an indivdual one.

Upir:
As with Doru, Severus and so many others in this thread, you make statements of belief alone and then disparage any facts contrary to or in contradiction of such beliefs. Why is that?


You see Upir what we have is lack of fairness and consistency, on one hand you have evolutionist, the other is creationist.


My creationist response:
God created man and the heavens, Thus you come from God.
Pretty simple... well Prove it.


My Evolutionist Response:
DNA makes you what you are... On a genetic level you have more in common with a grain of rice than you do with a chimpanzee. but that does not stop people from believing that they are descended from apes because they look like us??

Again petty simple... OK prove it.


You see Upir there the real hart of the problem you ask other to do what you can not, knowing they can not. You can't prove you position on anything any more than I can.
Whether it's a medical dictionary the Koran or the Asetian bible it is all done with some measure of faith. Faith is something you say is unacceptable.

You want scientific proof of what I believe, Well I want scientific proof of what you belief... Prove to me the link between Man and apes. Prove to me there is a God... any God and I will go away.

THE TRUTH is you can't... period!!
You can't prove the God theory and you can't prove the evolution theory... which means not only are you guilty of doing exact what you just accused me of doing.
You mock others beliefs in the process.




PS

Son... Any time you want to go toe -to- toe on Egyptian Culture, Mythology, Cosmology, any thing at all you give me a Ring.

Severus you are a "Gladiator"!!!

Dam stairght.
Some tells me that all I say is short of Gospel without facts, asks why we think that "science and facts are unnecessary".

Well I am just waiting on some of that "science and facts" he clearly has in his pocket.

He will either answer me with his proof for everyone to judge his ideologies on, or he will show himself a fact less antagonist.


Either way the Vampire bashing stops here.

Doru, are you really trying to say that you actually meant to say that our words "implore" ignorance and arrogance? What does that possibly mean? What are we "imploring" or "begging" of ignorance and arrogance? How exactly does one "implore" anything of ignorance or arrogance, given that neither are capable of responding to any such?


Severus, any theory that cannot be discussed based on the merits of its evidence cannot be taken seriously except by either fanatics or the ignorant. And that goes as much for Creationism or Evolution as it does for Asetianism (if that's a word).

As for your apparent "toe-to-toe" challenge, call me strange... but I prefer to and actually do discuss Egyptology with actual Egyptologists, Sumerology with actual Sumerologists and science with those who actually appreciate such and have more than dogmatism to offer. Of course, if the time ever comes that I decide to trade in intellectual inquiry for blind adherence and obedience to belief, con artistry, pseudo-science and books of "ancient wisdom" written by modern uneducated photographers, you and Doru will be among the first ones I ask for assistance in making the transition.


- Upir'

Enters the ring, just an observation.
~Bows to All~ yet again V.R. exceeds the cutting edge.
I will not discuss life threatening eye change/ sexual exchange here but I will if you message me.
May I suggest we may well all have valid points? I think there is quality in much of this thread.
Rarely does any one believer, researcher or scientist come up with the universal theory. Therefore it is likely we all have a piece of the Jig-Saw.
Perhaps that is the very Game itself , Perhaps a lesson~work together and solve the larger Puzzle.

When I started this thread I thought about the question very carefully. My sole intention behind the question was to become informed, to gain some insight or knowledge. Never did I expect to get the responses I have read.

I am astonished at all the information people of this community have offered. It is even more interesting to me now than ever before.

It's a great debate with very interesting and valid points. I am not going to decide who is right or wrong, I am not going to judge those who believe or side with those who don't. To be honest with all of you, it has been more of an interview for me. Ultimately I may or may not come to a conclusion from all the pieces of information I have received, but for now I have a greater understanding and respect for all concerned.

An interview, thats a bit of a worry.Who are you then?

Oh please no worries, it's all for personal knowledge.

AlienNation: *May I suggest we may well all have valid points? I think there is quality in much of this thread.
Rarely does any one believer, researcher or scientist come up with the universal theory. Therefore it is likely we all have a piece of the Jig-Saw.
Perhaps that is the very Game itself , Perhaps a lesson~work together and solve the larger Puzzle.*

Well-stated and I agree...:) And thank you so much Upir for you kind words...and btw...don't make yourself a stranger...I've missed our philosophical pursuits and discussions very much...:)

As for Severus and Doru...Darlings, please...there is no need to "throw down" the gladiator gauntlets for a toe-to-toe match with Upir...:P To be sure, Upir is my logistical complement as I am his eloquent, spiritual one...in other words, flip sides to the same coin. You misinterpret the spirt of intention behind his words.

Just as there is more to you Severus, than meets the eye here in this forum...you would find the same to be true of Upir....as well as for any others here. :) I definitely must agree that we all have very good points to ponder...even as this thread has unraveled so many unique and different, yet similiar opinions...the whole of it all is worthy of consideration as the author of this discussion has noted so well. :)

first of all not a vampire

second of all either the stories of vampires throughout the ages of time were based on truth but like how some stories get when told by word instead of written down and retold parts are left out and parts are added or they are just stories that are told late at night around a fire to frighten each other and not based on truth at all

Third of all since my eyes sometimes do get red cause of blood vessels popped and there are more times then I can count that the nurses have a hard time finding my pulse and when they take my temperature or blood and it is lower then most people does this make me a member of the undead or a vampire NO this is just the way I am and have been as long as I can remember besides being anemic and fighting to keep my blood count level and iron count level or a bit higher then what is normal for me as I hate seeing the damn bloodsuckers every week and have blood withdrawn for tests

But if the stories are true and there are vampires with us today I have my beliefs on how they have been created like some of theirs but that is what they are beliefs til the truth comes out

Actually Upir I have a degree in Egyptology
From the of Field of Near Eastern Studies
Cornell University, Ithaca, NY... THANK YOU!!

And I find it hypocritical for you to stand there and mock others about their beliefs because they lack "merits" and "evidence" when you have failed to produce any thing of your own.
I put out the challenge and asked that you answer.... which you have but with no substantive merit or evidence on your part... in short you have responded with out actually answering.
We of course all knew this is what would occur.

This response proves you to be little more than an educated Misogynist.

At this point I believe most see you for what you are, a simple soul who's only intent is to disprove the beliefs of other based on little more than your own personal world view, of which you have no desire to be placed under the same scrutiny as you ask of others... you sir are a soap box preacher of the worse kind.

And so the personal attacks escalate as the refusals continue to actually present, much less discuss, the merits or evidences of the viewed stated by Severus and Doru, among others.

Unfortunately, this is usually how these discussions develop and then collapse:

1. A question is asked
2. Usually a variety of opinions, views and theories are offered, including discussions of specific points or claims of each
4. Usually during this process, those who seek real knowledge and wish to pursue such will discuss sources, references (i.e., those "merits and evidences" I mentioned) and a rousingly intriguing time ensues
5. Then enter... the dogmatists who make what they consider to be unimpeachable pronouncements and refuse either to provide any evidences for same but to also chastize anyone asking for same. Should this prove insufficient to silence such persons daring to question their views or claims, then they are personally attacked, using first in calling them "ignorant and arrogant." And, should this still be insufficient to silence the questioner, these same dogmatists will then escalate their rhetoric and become increasingly hostile... usually forcing the intervention of those of appropriate VR rank and often resulting in the closing of the thread, entirely. Either way, their goal is achieved: their views are to either be hailed as truth or else at least appear to still remain undefeated by forcing the closing of the thread.

As should be apparent, we are now at the final stages of Step 5.


Severus, I "mocked" no one here. If I have, then you will have to indicate who and where. I challenged your view and stated correctly that any such theory or view that cannot be permitted scrutiny of its merits and evidences was not worth much. That was not an attack on a person (ad hominem fallacy) but instead a declaration of the conditional property inherent to the worthiness of any theory or conclusion.

I am happy to answer any actual question put to me. I await any such given that, to my knowledge, there is not one you asked that I did not answer. If you disagree, ask your question(s).

As for your claim to an Egyptologiy degree from Cornell University, I shall only opine that given so many factors, not the least of which is the content of this latest entry, I find this claim not only highly unlikely but, in fact, truly unbelievable.


- Upir'

For those who may want this information concerning their query about vampires:

Vampire Glyphs
by Sean D. Francis

In 1908, a team of Italian archeologists uncovered a relic in the Minoan palace of Phaistos in Crete. This relic was a disc inscribed in an unknown language using stamps, signifying an example of movable type being used around 1600 b.c.e. This relic is referred to as the Phaistos Disc. A similar object was uncovered five years later in an excavation around the city currently called Ismir in Turkey.
Archeologists were excited about the second find, but soon became disheartened as the symbols were not the same. While the Phaistos Disc remains a mystery and possibly a historical anomaly, the second Disc, commonly referred to as the Belzeit Tablet, has been partially decoded in the late 20th century. What it has revealed is both startling and exciting.

For lack of a poetic description, the Belzeit Tablet was created by a unique Mystery Cult operating in the shadow of the ancient Greek city-states with clear connection to Egypt and the Hebrew tribes on the other side of the Mediterranean Sea. This cult practiced a ritualistic worship of beings best described as vampires.

Whether these vampiric beings truely existed or were simply a variant on the Bacchus rites that were performed is still left for debate among the scholars. On the disc, there were over eighteen glyphs represented, but only six have been fully translated and understood. Presented, for the first time on the internet, are the six glyphs and their interpreted meanings.

From the following link:
http://www.stygianlabyrinth.net/ariadne/misc/misc_glyphs.htm

This thread has been automatically closed for length.