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I feel these are different questions than currently discussed so I started a new thread. I hope these questions are not too loaded:


Many here speak of using different forms of magic. How do you all feel these forms came to be ‘magical’? Before candles where invented we had stones and herbs, so how did candles become magical?

When you as individuals say you practice a form of magic such as candle magic, do you feel it’s a form all it’s own and the candles hold the key to the magic, how and why?

Or are they only a source of focus? If they are simply a source of focus why call it candle magic as this would mean they are mundane items only?

If they are indeed magical than as above how did they become so and what new medium(s) do you feel will become magical in the future if any?

How do you think said medium(s) will become magical? Is it through the popular use of it as a magical implement and thus through the agreed popular conscience of all of us that it becomes magical? What are all of your thoughts on this?

Is there any one here that feels there is only one type of magic or energy and everything else is simply a focus to help channel it? As in that there is no such thing as candle, herb, stone, etc. magic and that they are simply the focus by which our Will channels through and that these items are only precieved as magical through pop culture both past and present?

Thank you,

AD

And now that we know how to write :) how do you think things will change, where do you think things will go, how do you think we should get them there?

actually I have long spoken of magic requiring nothing more that an exercise of pure will and mental focus, but most people actually NEED the rutual practices to get into the right frame of mind to exercise such extreme will

Daermon - And do you feel that WILL alone is the source of magical power?

Do you feel objects can be imbued with ones will and thus serve a magical function? What happens when that person passes on and their will is no longer in place to sustain the power of the object?

Do you feel a persons will can continue on in this realm even after they have passed, how so or how not?

well you asked if a persons will can or cannot carry on after they are gone. I feel if their Will is that strong while here then Yes, in some form or another I believe it can carry on. whether it be thrtough someone whom was taught under them to use their Own will and channel through them then yes they are that persons source as to say to carry on.
It just depends on how one percieves it in my opinon. I have and can feel the strong will of my mother whom taught me many things of her Native heritage. Again this is just how I feel it to be. That with out her will and strenght still carring on I do not believe I could do many of the spells that I have done.

I do not quite understand the question or debate

Please elaaborate then I will comment more

hmm intriguing response....actually I do feel that applied will once applied does take on it's own power apart from that of the person....
IF that was te intent of the caster.....
casting a spell is after all an act of creation in and of itself....

gothicjoker – Thank you; hope more people join in though.

princesswalachia – Do you think her will is in you or a part of you or a separate entity that has some how attached itself to you and thus influences you and helps?

If it is separate of you do you feel it is a spirit or ghost then, like a guardian ancestor and has an intelligence of its own?

If her will is a part of you do you feel that it is her lessons and beliefs that you share and her influence that has become a part of who you are now, that helps carry her will through?

Basically do you feel you are a student then carrying on your teachers influence or do you feel she is still around you as a spirit to use the word and independently helps you? And thank you for your feed back.

lestatsdarkling – Sorry for the delay, but simply do you or others fell/think/believe that magic has many forms such as candle magic, or is magic simply the will of the person and items such as candles are simple mundane objects that are used as a focus to channel ones will? The other questions lead on from there.

Daermon - :) Then if a person’s will is set in place by them to govern the desired resulting spell, to use a word or rather the desired effect of the caster, how long can it stay there, what happens if the person passes on, moves far away etc? I’m sure this would depend on the strength of the person but there should still be some basic rule of measure. Also sense the person is releasing some of there will does this drain them in a sense and or place a part of themselves into that area of effect.

If it places a part of themselves, and they pass on, do you think such effects could account for “ghost” sightings or other similar paranormal artifacts?

Interesting subject dear. I have practiced the Pagan ways for 10 years now and have found what people believe and how they practice is just as diverse as the people.

As for objects embued with magik, I don't believe it is the object itself, it is what the object represents to us. It gives the caster something to focus on, although I have cast and sent out plenty of spells with nothing more than my heart and mind.

The objects we place on our alter and around our circle are based in tradition and give us something physical to attach the meaning of our words to. A bowl filled with water, a feather, an athame', and salt all represent a direction and element. The candles we light to enclose our circle are nothing more than a physical reminder of the circle of protection we surround ourselves with as we speak the words to cast our circle. They are all simply physical reminders of the words we speak. The objects themselves contain no more power than what we give them and what they mean to us individually. If you believe a symbol or object has power, it does. A cross for a christian, a pentacle for a pagan, a star of David for a jew, they all have power because we give it to them.

As for the next generation, we will give them our knowledge and understanding of our ways, but Paganism is something that is individual. I have never seen a more diversified religion. You may be in the same coven and practice the same rites but each person may interpret them differently and that's okay. It is a belief system that is very personal. You can teach someone the basics, the holidays, the basic outline of ritual, how to call corners, and protect oneself, but exactly how those rites are said and performed is up to the individual. It is a religion steeped in tradition yet forever growing and changing.

So in the end it is truly a matter of perception. It is how you see and interpret the world, nothing more, nothing less.

Fm

"Many here speak of using different forms of magic. How do you all feel these forms came to be ‘magical’? Before candles where invented we had stones and herbs, so how did candles become magical?"

Many herbs keep in mind have healing properties, back then and perhaps even to some now, that is fundamentally what magic is. If something cures an ailment when you have nothing else, it becomes sacred.

candles and such things are the focus points on which energy is disspelled.

faeriemoon – Thank you dear and I agree it is very individual and diverse the basics though should be the same.

AntiEveryone – It’s true that many herbs have healing properties, heck pharmaceutical companies send out research teams to remote corners to try and learn from the native cultures there what herbs do what, then try to acquire the herbs and synthetically duplicate the one or two chemicals in the herb that are actually doing the healing. But now a days we know it’s the chemicals in the herbs healing and not any imbued power or magic in the plant. So why do so many still call them magical then if it’s just chemicals and or they are simply used as a focus?

DeathKnightShimitar – Thanks DKS but do you think that energy can be stored in objects or if the same object is used over a period of time, do you think it can become magical as so much of the persons will was focused through it? Would it not pick up some residual energy and hold onto it for a long time?

Candles are a place for someone to focus. Magic is all about focus, control of ones emotions and the energy around them.
Everything in witchcraft has become important because of someones use of it to focus energy.

I am native american. we practice a form of magic that is not much like any other. Those we can use crystals, and other things. a lot of our mysticismis is based in our herbs and and our music, and in the oneness with all of the power of mother earth. it is kind of hard to explain. we kind of tap into the energy of the earth and use it with her permission. I guess that would be the best way to describe it.

we have nothing written as it taught from word of mouth. our elders were taught by their elders and so on, 10's of thousands of years.

I am sure if I am relay the information that you are asking. but, that is how it is mostly done.

I agree with alot of what is said...
Candles are used now aday in most forms of magik... mostly they are only used as focusing points as well as a barrier for their auras as well as outsite auras,

And as for writing, writing has only helped in aiding in retaining memory of spells as well as incantations and rites, other than that I see no need for writing.

magick has always been and will always be...no matter what

Manslayer, you are very right on the writing bit.

I have not seen a single writing of anything in my chosen path. it is all word of mouth and most of the time the teaching itself is in the middle of a story that is told.

we are to deduce from what is told to ask the right questions to get the answers we seek for what it is we are trying to do.

I am not sure if other native americans are taught in this manner or not.

its not the candle but the fire. magic is more about the natural energies present in the world then anything else.

magic has always been present in the world it is just a matter of focusing it and using it. it has alot to do with being aware of it.

We are that all life is a type of magic and you can the magical energies from the all living things, but you have to ask permission or it will go awry, because you would be stealing.

Thank you all for you input. :)

prettyviolence - I'm familiar with some native American and other tribal teachings. Many cultures practice what you described. They pass down their teachings orally usually through song and stories and even dance. Very little writing or some time in a picture which has tons of meaning.

Now you said you draw from the earth with its permission. How would one practice this on another world? If you where to go to Mars, say would you still try to draw from earth or would you draw from the new world? Have you ever thought about this?

Do you feel each world has its own guardian, spirit, god/goddess, etc? Or is there only one and we humans have only been able to tap earth's energies but with that one's permission?

Again, thank you

I have actually. the connection would be different. as we are of the earth the connection we would have to establish with the new terra we found ourselves on might be very different.

I have pondered what it would be like and I can only say that in my opinion it would not work as well, unless we were born of the new planet. WE are able to draw of the earth as she is our mother in all things and she supports us and gives us what we need.

We would have to be born of the planet and the planet in return for the life force we send to it would have to be willing to provide for us the way mother earth does.

And our children that are born there, how would they go about looking for that planets spirit? Do we have a way to teach this to them, would it be the same way to connect to this planet?

What about the ones not born on a planet, would they not have a spiritual, to use the word, connection to anything? Would they be lost? so we insure that future generations are always born on a planet so they have some sort of connection?

It would be the same as with this planet. as they are bornof the new planet they will be connected to it. That connection i swhat is need to be able to draw on it's power.

All (or at least most) forms use "focal points",concentration.
Whether one uses prayer,chants,song, mantras,incantations or whatever,they train their minds & wills in a particular direction.
If one uses ritual,using candles & so on, this is simply to reach that objective,to remain focused.
The objects that are used to achieve this goal,in themselves, do not possess power.
They are a means to "set the stage",in order to filter out distractions & accomplish that which is your endeavor.
Some believe that they need the paraphinalia to perform "Magick",all that they need is their mind,their Will & faith in themselves.
They can use absolutely ANYTHING,if they feel that they need something outside of themselves.

Strigoi, it would depend on your chose path would it?
Would you not be more inclined to do what you have been taught to do?

Maybe it is different for my family as it is more than working magiks, it is a part of our spirituality.
I woud say that I don't know what you know, as you don't know what I know. We are talking about two different sphere.

Agreed prettyviolence,it does depend on one's sphere of experience, training/learning,culture,many different areas.
I,of course,speak from my own experience & training,I cannot approach this in any other way.
I meant no offense to any,but once you get to know me abit,I may sound like I'm speaking generally,but I really only speak from my own experience.

It was everyones unique experiences and perspectives I wanted to hear from. So thank you to everyone.

I understand. I have often been accused of the same. I think that every sphere has to deal with things the way they were taught.

I know that others do not depend on mother earths guiding hand and energy. but that is what works for me.

If I was to move off the earth would I still connected to her. I would think so. I born of her flesh so I should maintain the conncetion would I be able to drw form it. I don't know. I would like to think I could though.

prettyviolence - Do you think each planet has it's own spirit or god/goddess?

if th eplanet is a living planet like eath than yes it has a spirit. We are taught that all living things have a spirit.

I'm not trying to be facitious,but if a planet was alive & died,where does it's Soul go?
(or is this a subject for another thread? LOL)

I think it could fit here but to say that all living things have souls is to first define what is a living thing. does a single cell have a soul or only a huge planet or only self aware creatures such as humans.

Hah - Do vampires have souls? Now that;s a topic for another thread. hehehe

So Mars is dead!? and thus does not have a spirit of it's own?

Well I belive that the candle is a tool to help with magic. It can be used to draw the energy. This is only my opinion but I dont practice candle majic. Every oblect and thing on this planet has energy that can be used to draw energy.

hey baby sis! isn't that what I just said? I do believe so! I think if you read up I said that all living this have a spirit! same diff! lol

I agree with Daermon,you don't need these items to perform magic,but sometimes these items are used as a medium to direct the energy,if not without a place to channel all this energy the results might not always be the desired ones.

I think you need to look at classical psychological conditioning on this.
I agree that it doesn't, ultimately, matter what the object is that is used to set the stage. The object is used as a means to focus will.
The object in question would need to be an item that YOU, as the magical practitioner, responds to.
For example, the weapons of power placed upon the alter. As you train magically, you begin to associate certain feelings and understandings with these items. This is something that has been integrated on a subconscious level.
Depending upon your associations, you will respond accordingly.
You are, in essence, manipulating your own response to focus your will.

In terms of items acquiring "power", like candles of certain colors. Each color has its own vibrational frequency on the color spectrum. Focus, meditate, align yourself with color and once you are within that vibrational sphere, you can perhaps accomplish something interesting.
My experience.

it's not the candels for say that hold the power true power laies in ones self the candel seves as and point of focus and the flame a meedum and as for the herbs and teaching of the past that power is drawn from the earth along with ones own power making it a stonger bond to seal the magic

I do use candle magic and it acts as a focus for me. However I do feel that objects can be inbued by continued use over time or a very strong force of will. That's why I also practice cleansing of the items I use to prevent a buildup of unwanted energies.

I have to agree with Prettyviolence on the Earth as a living planet with a soul or force, if you will. As to Mars, I couldn't say but since they've found evidence of water there may still be a force there too. We won't know until we get there.

"how long can it stay there, what happens if the person passes on, moves far away etc? "

It can stay there as long as IT chooses to, like I said the casting of a spell is in itself an act of creation....once you realease a magic into the world, it is free to do what it will....within the boundaries you placed upon it as the caster..and sometimes not even withing said boundaries...
we gather power within ourselves....with an act of focussed will we realease that power and shape it....but the power itself....was always there..we are just assisting it in acheiving a form....and i think magic itself has some awareness...so what stops it from staying?....only itself

hmmmm.. This topic is about as likely as me being able to drain the piss out of the entire site all by my lonesome... (if draining was even possible to begin with). Someone make a believe out of me.. I dare you. make that double... Until I "feel" this mysterious energy I'm going to sit here snickering like always... surely someone can register something? Break out your heirloom candles and anti-psychotic medications.

dude..it a matter of faith..asme as any religion....if you choose not to have any..then that is exactly what you will receive...

AD- The way I understand it is that candles are used as a focus. Now it is a very important part of the ritual, but I have not seen it as magic in itself. The herbs and some of their healing powers can be described as magic, but is it another form or just another focus?

Daermon,never mind trying to explain to that dude,he simply just doesn't get it.his mind is closed and until it opens he will never understand what we are talking about.

SchwarzeWitweSpinne, I am with you. I do believe to each their own.
It really does comes down to the faith or beliefs of the person that is doing the practicing.
If you believe in what you are doing you will get something out of it.

Do you believe that the earth has a soul?

Yes, I do believe she does.

You ask the earth permission for lending its energy.. Do you ask that to your god/&/goddess, or to earth itself?


I ask Mother Earth to share her energy. It is for her to give it or not. This not a request I would take to my creator as it is not his energy that I would need.


Xu, It comes back to your own beliefs. I do not ask for anyone to believe what I do.
I do believe that stone people have not only a living spirit but they have a voice, as do all living things. It is our(mine and my families) way to try to hear what is said and to give to the earth as much as she gives.

but that is my own belief.

I am not insulted, please believe me. I understand. lol

Understand that I am still learning, so I don't have all the answers. but I will share what I have.

we have certain ceremonies that required a lot of meditation and energy to perform. in these ceremonies you talk to the mother earth and she will or will not answer.
there is a lot more than that. and I would hae to consult my elders for the information. lol
(hence the still learning part, lol)
but it is basically what I have told you.

I do not believe that Will is the source of magick i believe it comes from many sources... like candle magick

Time, and distance are irrelivant; The earth has a spirit but not a soul (ie highly unlikely that it will exist as we do after we have left it).

All things material have spirit... a soul is immaterial and immortal. That said, all things have influence on all other things (think gravity or the ripples in a pond).

Since all things have an influence on all things... a candle is going to have some influence on the magic... whether that influence is signigficant or not depends on your perception. Perception changes an event (if a treefalls in the forest...) The more outside influences you percieve the more likely you are able to affect the outcome, and the less relevant the candle (or other focus) becomes.

Magic is one subject, i would love to learn more of.
I own a copy of " The Book of Shadows", but i don't know how, or were to begin.

InPrasieofBacchus – You ask a simple question but it might not have a simple answer. I would recommend approaching learning about magic like any other subject. Learn all that you can about it from various angles.

To most people magic seems to have a function similar to that of religion, if such beliefs seem to fit your life and it’s something your drawn too then continue learning in those directions.

The book of shadows is but one color of the spectrum that is magic. There are personal forms that are unique to the individuals and then there are more orthodox or organized forms of magic which are actually various religions.

If you want to learn more about the traditional Western perception of magic with witches flying around on brooms, casting spells etc. The book of shadows is a good start or any other related books.

Just remember the FAA will fine you if they catch you flying on a broom without a private pilot’s license and your broom must be registered as an authorized experimental aircraft otherwise they will impound it. The only exception to these laws so far is Santa’s slay. ;)




inmyshadow – You said “I do not believe that Will is the source of magick I believe it comes from many sources... like candle magick”

How do you define what magic is, what do you feel is its core essence other than ones will? Are you also saying than that candles are more than a mere focus and have some sort of unique power unto them selves?




kdrater – To me the Herbs are just like the candles, simply a focus. I believe that the will of those involved with the practice and use of herbs is the magic. However we know that herbs have key chemicals in them that have healing properties (to keep things simple) and this has added to their perception of being magical by most known cultures. To validate herbs as being magical just as anything else, they would have to be able to perform magic on their own or pass some other valid testing. Candles are simply wax with a wick. Herbs are simply plants with beneficial chemicals in them. To me, if a person wants to believe these things are magical they have that right but I feel they are only a focus of ones will and in the case of herbs they have some physical properties that make them more beneficial to use.