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Greetings again,

For those that believe in and practice astrology:

It’s understood by most who believe in and practice astrology that the planets affect our lives and have some magical properties depending on how one wishes to describe things. How do you all feel and think about our scientist relabeling the planets and redefining what a planet is? What effect will this have on astrology if any?

Do you feel there is a way for us to test and measure if another planet or celestial body has a magical influence on us? Is so how? If we find another large or small planet should we adjust the astrological tables?

Once humanity leaves Earth and ventures to Mars and beyond, from those new locations our perception of the night sky and thus the stars will be very different. We will not be able to see certain familiar constellations and new ones could be created and discovered. How do you all feel or think we could determine if those new combination of stars hold any significance to our lives and have any magical effects over us? What forms of measurement could we use to determine this?

Right now astrology is completely Earth centric (based on our perception of being here on earth). Once we travel away from earth things quickly change. How do you all feel this will affect us, affect astrology and magic as a whole? Can astrology survive if we leave the earth, what about magic and paganism in general?

Our ancestors gave us what we have today. Once we become the ancestors, what are we going to leave for our children?

Thanks,

AD

this is precicely why i have never given much thought to strology as a useful device....
it is far too mercurial

Why would it effect us at all?

If you really believe in Astrology, then nothing should really change. What is there has always been there, or has been as long as we've existed. So humankind discovers new celestial bodies... it's not a "new" body, it's just new to us. So humankind re-classifies a celestial body... how does that change what that body actually is?

To me, it's all a lot of superstition and non-sense. To think Mars effects my destiny... well, I might as well believe in all-knowing invisible people in the sky.

i dont no much about it but my son mentioned that they were re naming pluto i thought hed gone nuts
lol

I for one think that is an interesting take and look on the matter.
I think that it will definately have some impact, but as of now it is hard to determine what that impact will be.
The American horoscopes and perspective will definately change...but then if you think about the Chinese astrology..its just based on numbers not the stars. So at least that should remain stable.
I am actually intersted in what changes will take place. I only wish I would live long enough to see people out in the colonies of space.

Daermon – Thank you for your comments on my other post. I agree as to the power of magic being ones Will but it’s hard to find those that would admit so as there is to much pop culture lore and flashy pretty books on magic all focused by capitalistic motives and sadly so many people buy into them.

Birra – You’re correct about things always being there however our perception of them is what matters to those that practice astrology. Perception affects how we human focus our minds and thus our Will So for those that do believe and practice astrology they will be affected as their perception will change with new discoveries and such, thus how they function and channel their Will would change.

I wish more astrologers would respond to my questions, but that’s ok.

kristianathevamp – Yes they have been working on changing Pluto to not being a planet. They are also trying to label and redefine what a planet is or if their should be different classes of them. As it’s been pointed out though none of this should affect magic directly but it will affect people’s perception and thus their on focus which could affect their magic. Very few are wiling to discuss this though. :(

it was around before we were and it will always be around, if not then i will be surprised

I wont discount anyones beliefs. but if it has always been around how then will it adapt to the changes as humanities perceptions, knowledge and abilities always change. Will this belief fade away as we grow as a species or will it adapt and change. More importantly how and by whom?

If our perceptions change astrology then we control astrology. So we can make it what we want.

If astrology is dependent on what we know (and therefore perceive) then how can astrology determine anything in our lives, since we really know so little.

It's those very same questions that got me kicked out of some pagan/astrology disscussion groups.

I wish people would respond to them too.

*Smiles*

Thanks for your comments. :) So do you feel then that it IS Earth centric BUT no matter where we move too inside the solar system we can simply rotate the stars around depending on the persons new location?

If a person could not see the stars or planets from where they live or are born, would they be affected by them still?

*smiles*
What I meant was that wherever we moved with the solar system, astrology as we know it would change because our location would be different, not the planets or stars.
But because our location would be different, so thus would our zodiac sign and personality. Am I explaining clearly?

I think we where both saying the same thing. :)

With it being different though, how do you know how that change will affect people?

What if a person lives under completely new stars and you have no predetermined sign that they where born under? Then what?

*smiles again*
Theoretically speaking of course, a new star system would have to define a new astrological system. The current one is based upon how the planets and stars align with the earth, sun, and moon.
Everything would change...

hmm.. you pose an interesting question. But, I do not see how, if we were to move to another planet, that would effect anything.. if you believe in astrology now, than nothing will change.

The whole concept of the stars being viewed from an Earth-centric point of view doesn't change the fact of what is out there and what has been there for millions of years. Just because we found it, doesn't mean that it is something "new". I think mentally people might "think" that things have changed and maybe certain things that happen in their lives they could make up an excuse or blame it on the new stars that we see and that's why they feel the way they do. But, whomever were to feel or think that way is basically just too nieve and/or ignorant to really understand/know the whole reality of it.

I hope not to offend anyone. This is simply a personal understanding of the matter which is why this thread is here...

When your spirit leaves this world, it enters into what I call the Next Stage, where in this new realm, power is attributed by the strength of the will, and since magic is based on the will or desire of the individual, magic becomes something more that you'd see in a movie, as this world's constraints on such things are not present in the next world.

This is just my personal thought, nothing more.

I believe that one day far from now when we have burn all the resources out of the planet Earth....we will be living in space stations and travelling in space ships going and colonizing foreign solar systems and galaxies


Science fiction is not just fiction but actually predictions of what is to come

Yes we will burn them out, but eventually no matter how fucked up it gets, it is always renewed. And by that time i hope people have gotten off the planet anyway. as for what we will leave our kids and all that, I have no idea.

Nice thread..I would say that it would not change...That is if you use the same charts.

I dont believe it will change. No offence, most of the info that astrology was first based on was based upon thoughts and ideas. and still it worked and aided in magic. So I do not believe that these scientists renaming things as they see fit will effect it.

If the names of the planets are changed I don't htin it effects the overall scheme of astrology. since it is more based on the the placement of the celestial entities, not their names.

Leadyshelly makes a good point that if we moved from this planet then it would effect the overall scheme of it, as the placement of the celestial entities in the new place would have t be charted and then astrology would have to change to match the charting.

But how would it be charted a new and by what rules would we use?

If we discovered a new planet, one that always has been there and thus always has been affecting us but was not represented on the original charts (say our ancestors did not have Hubble to spot it), how would we correct the charts? Is there a measurable way of saying how much one planet affects us magically to use the word? We can measure the gravitational influences of planets but what about the psychic and magical influences?

There has to be a way to do this as our ancestors had figured it out some how otherwise we would not have the charts and astrology as a whole today. Are we skilled and knowledgeable enough to figure out how to modify the charts for these changes, either for a new planet that needs to be added to the charts or with us moving to a new planet?

Understand that we do not have the advances that our ancient forfathers had. I don't know if that would be able to happen or not.

i believe that the "planets" are crutches that we use to gather our energy, even though i know there is much power, i believe we are capable with out them, maybe not as strongly, but i do believe that its within us, not else where

Alchemistdamed, "If we discovered a new planet, one that always has been there and thus always has been affecting us but was not represented on the original charts (say our ancestors did not have Hubble to spot it), how would we correct the charts? Is there a measurable way of saying how much one planet affects us magically to use the word? We can measure the gravitational influences of planets but what about the psychic and magical influences?"

To answer this question we as humans would re-write it to fit into what is already there. We'd make sure that the 'changes' were there but in a way that doesn't change what is already there. IE yes the new charts would have the planet there but they won't change how it afffected us then. But how it affects us now may be represented as a "minor" change to what we have now.

As far as measuring the gravitational pull and magical qualities and whatnot? I think that is all just going to be a mathematical formula to fit in whatever preconcieved notions they want us to believe.

But then again, I may be just talking out my butt because I don't really know.

My mother and I are in love with astrology. We basicaly live it. I belive that if we did move from earth it would change our astrology completely. Because astrology is based on the planets surrounding the earth. If we were to more lets say to mars, it would change the way we behave and react because the planets would be in a different possition to us if we weren't on earth.

depends on how you believe Astrology to work. it was originally belived that the planets and the sun rotate around us, as the moon does. we now know this is not true. i personally believe that they are really nothing more than a means of measurement of time, and it is really just what is happening here on Earth that affects us. so moving to another planet would make it all a bit null and void - we would have to find a new set of rules.

Just as the rules of what constitutes a planet have changed with human sciences growth making Pluto not a planet anymore, so would the rules of astrology change to work with the planets and locations of humans. It would be changed by the people that love and use it just as it was developed in the past. If one was located where no planets or stars were visable, why should that matter. I do not have to see magic to believe in it or be a vampire to accept that there are those who are. I believe mankind will adapt and change the things important to them as we progress and move into the stars or under the water as I expect someday will happen. Just my humble opinion.

Nihonin – You said “To answer this question we as humans would re-write it to fit into what is already there. We'd make sure that the 'changes' were there but in a way that doesn't change what is already there. IE yes the new charts would have the planet there but they won't change how it affected us then. But how it affects us now may be represented as a "minor" change to what we have now.”

You’re probably correct as that fits with how humans behave. Historically we have always tweaked things that where out of place into our own belief structures and in a way that did not upset the current balance to much. Consintene did an excellent job at this with Christianity and blending all the surrounding cultures religions with in the Empire of his time.

XTCraver – Nice point some have said that too but can you answer how it would change and how would we measure and record those changes?



I agree with all who have said humanity will change and adapt astrology, that’s human nature but has anyone given thought as to how and in what direction?

I'm going to stick my neck out for an ax here but I believe the answer to your last question about how and to what will humans make changes. That will depend on the changes that take place I think. As an example say we travel beyond our galaxy and find intelligent life with science much beyond our own. Humans will take what we learn from them and adjust it to fit with our beliefs. So I'm afraid the answers will come with the changes and those are beyond imagining.

I see your point. I guess I'll have to wait and see. I do some groups are working on changes but they don't explain the HOW and that is important.

there might be something in the library of Congress that you might be able to look at as far has to how it was done. it is the one of the largest libraries in the world and has a lot of very dated material!

Thank you, somthing to add to my to do list. I was hoping to find others though that might have done research on this too.

If we can venture out to new planets and beyond, then we should expect change. We would view everything differently, and have to come up with new stories for new constellations. We would be a new generation, and whatever we do will shape our offspring's viewpoints. *shrugs*

Eventually sorry to say, I honestly believe by then astrology will be obsolete, a thing of the past. Perhaps something comical even.

Well I dont follow allot of astrology but what i do know is that we know very little about our planet and how it evolved or other planets for that matter. People perdict what happened and people perdict what will happen but its hard to tell. Evolution still gets me and is something that i would like to become more educated in. I appreciate all the feedback and find it very interesting.

People who study "planets" for a living cannot even define what a "planet" even is.

that is a very real possibly. I mean there is many beliefs that we as a race have outgrown. It is not a big stretch that we would outgrow this one also.

All this is very interesting I dont know to much on Astrology. Although I do know that this has been practice since acient times. Our world has evolved since then many times over, and its still praciticed today. If we move off of this planet I'm sure somone will still find a way to still practice it.

What was practiced in ancient times was far more astronomy than astrology.

Yes it could very well fade away.

Any one here that practices astrology see why it would remain and continue to be used and why?

Just me personal statement that all bodies that exist in this strange space home besides earth all planets and bodies are named for god's so if that were true than there are thousands of denities so wouldn't there be lots of effects on the human race magical or not?

i believe that the planets effect us in diffrent ways ,same with stars i mean take the sun for example we could never survive without it

oh...and now they`re changing everything. pluto has been in our solar system for years and now they are saying its to far away. it will be difficult to think of pluto not being a planet dont u agree?

I honestly don't think it's going to change. If it does you never know what it's gonna change to whether it'll be good or bad because we probably won't be around.

the problem is that when ever there is a change that ppl have a tendency to see it as bad. Changes are going to happen there is no stopping them. and ppl need to learn to deal with them and move on.

As far as the astrology is concerned, there is a good chance that if we move to a different planet that it is going to change as the celestial bodies that are used will not be there. It is also a good chance that Astrology might even be consider inadequate.

Alchemist Dammed- Do you have any pointers on how I can obtain more knowledge about astrology?

kdrater - Check online, local book stores, libraries. There are lots of places to find info. It also depends on the type of information you seek but those places will give you a good start.