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Okay...This part of the discussion is about the darker creatures that walk this fair earth throuhout the times of their existence.

This time around, everyone must, I repeat, MUST stay on topic or discuss with one another. No straying by talking of other threads, no short little quips, just pure discussion on a subject I am sure many of you are well-learned on. Okay.

Alright, now, all matters aside, who knows of some beings that would an ideal breaker? Anyone?

Like Dragons?Or like,Goblins and things?

You could always put this discussion in a Harry Potter sense. That we, as humans, don't have the luxury of seeing that which we want to see. There would indeed be a spread of world wide panic should someone stumble upon a dragon and live to tell the tail.

You could also look at this from a historical sense. We have all these stories and fairy tales of knights and dragons and wizards and other such mythical creatures. We have greek and roman and egyptian mythology. Take no offense at this, but we also have the bible. Who thought up these ideas if they didn't exist prior to their trascript from story telling to books?

I truely believe that all these things at one point existed. But then again, you could go and look through all these stories, study their anatomy and come up with factual scientific evidence that these things never exist and never happened. Or that they were infact true.

I run and get Herminone. She can tell us the answer!

Demons then?
......
It's sad to see humans believe in such
things to be real,but never had hard proof.
......
No one believed in Dino's.They laughed at the guy who talked about them being real.Then one day..he found bones.
Heh,the funny thing is..when they do find
dragon bones,they would prob call it
a dino.

Fuck Hermione, she doesn't know shit...she's a fake, cheats on all her tests. Anyway, back on subject.

The government likes to cover everything possible up. How do we know that they havent already found said bones.

Yeah, dragons actually would be in a class of dinos.
It is biologically possible for an animal to to spit "fire" so to speak and in fact some insects do spit out a burning and possible flamable liquid as a means of defense.
As for the goverment hidding things like this its more probable that they would hide lets say ET than they would dragons. After all ET posses much more of a threat.

And who says dragons aren't a form of ET???

Either way...ET or dragon...it's not like the government will readily share this information any time soon.

No not likely..like I said before, it would cause world wide panic.

oh i don't know - the existence of hobbits was revealed fairly recently. the thing is, we are back onto the old stumbling ground of dictionary definitions again aren't we? is a Dragon a large, super intelligent fire breathing flying reptile that hoards gold - or is it just a monsterous serpent? are you going to go with the modern Oxford English Dictionary, or refer to some ancient Greek tract? the problem here is you can prove anything, or disprove anything simply by picking and choosing the definition. and who writes these definitions? who sets them in stone and says it is categorically true? the dolphin was once defined as a large sea faring fish. the creatures we know as dolphins are mammals, not fish - does that mean that the dolphin does not exist, just because the original definition was wrong about them?

Nightblossom, you chose and excellent opening comment and I applaud you for such.

Karnstein.........

You may have a very good point that you are making, and it also brings me to the point that I must ask this: How would you DEFINE a true or original origination of a creature or species? Tell and enlighten us, please...

It is impossible to define anything anymore. Scientific study suggest that we are mammals because we live birth our children. Who says that the reptiles are truely humans? We can explain things away scientifically, but there's no real "godly" proof in it.

Mammal; Live birth, breast feeds and has hair.
The whole idea of "reptile as real humans" is nothing more than words.
Human is what we are, reptiles are what they are because we assign it a classification.

Ah yes but then you add the platypus into the mix, it's a mammal, but it lays eggs. So even science has a bit of a give on definitions.

The creatures of legend could have exsisted at some point. If we were to discover their bones, do we recognize them as what they are, or what we believe them to be? Still some believe creatures such as, dragons, faeries, and elves, have left this plane and exsist at a higher level. So I believe it is merely a matter of opinon.

i dont believe the goverment would cover any such findings up instead they would use it to gain whatever they could as they do with most thing people are interested in.

as for myself i truly have no clue to wether they exsisted or not but most studies have shown that something dragonlike has had to exsist at one point in time .

faeriemoon your absolutly right science does give A LITTLE.

I have no doubt of the possibility of dragons.We must however consider the fact that there may be no remains, dragon numbers could have been so small as to never be fossilized. Whatever the case speculations will go one for ever.

Just because science defines us as mammals under our said classifications doesn't mean that's what we are. Scientists still believe that there is absolutely no way creatures could survive on other planets because they have no oxygen, no ozone, no water, ect. But thats what we as humans need to live. K-PAX brings up these points ever so slightly...watch or read it, good movie and book. Anyway. Just because science says that other planets are inhabitable is that going to effect your belief that other creatures couldnt' exist on them.

A lot of good points are being raised. One idea that kind of circumnavigates all the ideas and pulls them together, is the belief that children are only able to see said creatures. Just a side note...

Excellent point.

Children are born innocent. This is a bit more of a religious belief. Someone has a stamp floating around here, "The only way to reach genius is to bring childhood into maturity".

You could also discuss the fact that more ghosts are reported by children. Because we aren't "programmed" yet to believe that nothing is real unless you can touch it. Taking that into account, are gods and deities real. We can't touch or see them. This isn't off topic either, this is discussing the origin of "made up" creatures. The bible was written by humans. Not by God himself who came down and handed them out at your door on Sunday mornings.
Vampires, werewolves, dragons, faeries, gnomes, elves, hobbits, magickal schools of witchcraft and wizardry, ghosts, greek and egyptian gods could be made true by religious believes. Scientific ideas could explain them out of existence. It really comes down to your choice in belief structure.

"Everytime someone says "I do not believe in fairies, one falls down dead."

"I DO NOT BELIEVE IN FAIRIES!!"

Pretty much dead on, Nightblossom. I mean if u tak all the legends and theories, and piece them together like a puzzle, adding the "children" thing in, it all kinda makes sense in a way. And not to knock your "innocense/religious" take on the "children" thing, Nightblossom, but if you look at it from a scientific blended with new age outlook, the reason for children being the only ones with the ability to view these creatures could just be that we numb ourselves to past truths and let society dictate what we see as reality. This arguement has bee used to fight the belief of esp or 6th sense and telekinesis. We can all do it, we just don't practice. (Simply worded, I know, but you get the point)

I used innocence because it was the easiest way to say that we hadn't been programmed yet. That's where we lose the belief that all things are possible, is when they start to tell us that we're wrong in thinking things like this are real.

i gotcha. i misunderstood.

Okay. So far we seem to be staying on track better than before, but COME ON people, I need some input on the rest of the question I asked: Where would the other creatures of the night have come from?

You didn't really ask any direct questions...especially not that one...in this thread anyway and I've already explained how we aren't straying from the topic.

Either way Where would the creatures of the night have come from?

If they didn't exist then it was simply superstition. Zombies were once physically described as vampires. But those weren't real either, they were dead bodies in the decay process. If they didn't exist they came from the fact that when these stories were created, there were no radios or TV's, so telling of these fabled creatures was a way of amusingment on every level.

A half truth, but part nonetheless; about the direct question bit, I mean. What I meant to ask was: Where, if anyone has any ideas, would creatures such as gnarls, the usual lycanthrope, and other such well-discussed creatures have come from, or where their legends originated?

This, I meant to imply in my question.

Where they come from. Looking at the "They are not real side". Humans are nuts. We have Royalty washing in virgin blood to stay young. We have people hearing voices to kill and eat people. The legends are easily explained as pychotic people believing their insanity.

I was watching Pirates yesterday and they make a good point...I'll quote the lines to the best of my memory...

"It's the Black Pearl."
"The Black Pearl? I've heard stories...goes from place to place, destroying everything. Leaving no survivors."
"If it leaves no survivors, where did all the stories come from?"

Need I say more.

well im sure if these creatures existed or still do then they are very few in numbers as for someone to prove their existance they may have died trying to find out

but obviously there were a couple survivors who may have seen these creatures, thus where the myths originated, and i would have to say that these creatures have existed, or many sections of the world who have not had communication between each other in ancient times wouldnt have the same beings in their myths and legends

While there is a good chance that the numbers of the other creatures of the night have dwindled, it is possible that they have adapted, learning how to better elude the common man.

I think many of the creatures of the night are actual repitiles mammals and birds that drew their reputation as monsters based on the circumstances they were discovered under. A wolf on it's hind legs in a dark forest could easily have convinced a peasant in 13th century Austria that there are werewolves. The last of a dying bread of water reptile that was 15 feet long could easily have startled a fisherman on Loch Ness at night and after retelling the encounter 20 times become 150 feet long. Komodo dragon tales brought back by Marco polo from Asia could have fostered into a knights tale of a ferocious beast that he slayed to save his maiden. As Some of you have said before there is always some truth to a tale no matter how tall it is.

Loch ness has been searched over and over again, wouldn't this "dying breed" have been discovered? A dying breed always leaves a trace of itself behind. And besides that, the logical theory on Nessy is that she's a log floating around in the waters.

Well everyone makes a good point here and I do agree on the Innocent of children being able to see more then we adults do, alot of us grow up and loose that because as was said society tells us not to believe in it. Yet I feel that it is possible that Dragons did exist and most things probably have originated anywhere except the US since this country is still in it's infantcy compared to how long the Asian and Europian Countries have been around, So I do believe that the majority of their Origins came from over there.

Yet even if found yes any government would not allow it to be known. They do not want panic or to be proven wrong on what society has taught us NOT TO BELIEVE ya know just my opinon

Lochness may be an enigma due to the fact that you can't see 10 feet infront of you in the water, so fossils are difficult to find but the gist is that there were incidents that occured in history that created the legends or story and through time these tales have evolved into the tales that entertain us today and allow us to have fantasies that will entertain generations to come.
And I know that somewhere in most of the minds of those of us on the VR, we wish that there was some truth to them.

If science as a whole would stop and realy use so common scence i think they would have to come to the conclusion that the"dino" might be a form of a dragon. they have found very few whole fosile's and put the one that they find in littel pices to gather the way they "think" they go we could have it all wrong. well it's just me thinking out loud

neodragon, you actually have a good point but that' speculation. We put them together the way we do because that's how our animals today are built. You don't know for certain that that particular puzzle piece goes in that particular area until you try to piece it together. That and we have found WHOLE dinosaurs fossilized in their perfect form, minus skin...and hey, some with skin. It's these findings that make us question our existence on this earth. If you think about it today..tomorrow we could find say a human corpse with wings coming out of its back that have apparently been there since birth.
but that of course is bringing the whole "mutant" theory to light.

You ahve to understand, something like a dragon would have to be kept secret. Only so that it wouldn't become like a freak show. I hope that the goverment would keep it away from public but alos give it good care. Which I dout it would.

A dragon would be an abomination if found. I'm wondering if J.K. Rowling is on to something.

But of course such creatures as Dragons would have to be hidden from the prying eyes of humans... such beautiful and powerful creatures... imagine what would happen should mankind discover their existence...

And as far as Demons are concerned... the most ancient and powerful of beings are brilliant survivalists... hence they would adapt human forms much as Vampires, Lycanthropes and any other night creature imaginable...