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Henry Cornelius Agrippa, in Book 1 of his Books on Occult Philosophy, chapter 62, makes mention of the 11 passions of the mind. It's an interesting and short discourse about how the passions of the mind many times will fuel the extraordinary of the physical.

Going again under the premise that the 3 bodies of the entity, physical, mental, and spiritual are united, the 11 passions of the mind are of the mental body. These emotions fuel the physical and are the base emotions around which energy is raised, gathered, and deployed.

The 11 passions are: love, hatred, desire, horror, joy, grief, hope, despair, boldness, fear, and anger.

The passion of love fuels all acts of love, including the protection of children which can lend great strength to the parent if the desire to act is there.

The passion of despair fuels acts of great selfishness and pure evil. The mind of despair is fueled by lack of hope for a better day tomorrow and causes the madness that fuels destruction of the self and others and has been witnessed recently in the gun slayings on the campus of Va Tech.

There are countless examples of how the 11 passions fuel acts of greatness, both on the side of clearly defined good and clearly defined evil. Therefore, the 11 passions must also be tempered with the intellectual discernment of morality.

This is a topic for discussion about the 11 passions of the mind. Which is the strongest, or are they all equal, and why?

I feel that all of them combine to form a moment of now, within which we move forward through existence.

We experience all of these at some point, which help to define us, in how we interact with the world.

Moments of greatness are born from extreme adversity in the face of one or more of these emotions.

Perhaps because we are inspired by them, or that we are in receipt of them, to a degree which breaks beyond the norm- the usual mediocrity of being.

And in this, we are taken to strive to overcome, or to move deep within.

For me, Love, is the greatest of them all, since all others can stem from this one. We can Hate because those that we love are hurt, as we can can feel grief and despair at the loss of a Loved one.

The same can be applied to any of the others- that they can be birthed from Love, of someone, or something which holds a powerful place within us.

There is no set answer to wich is the strongest or whether they are equal because they are all variable and affected by many things on our lives: Family, friends, peers, co-workers, environment, health, (job/career and or school), faith or lack of and even things like music and weather. I would think it would be rare for them to be all equal except for maybe during a transitional period. I would say generally one of them would tend to be stronger and in turn feed some of the others. If I had to pick one though that would be the strongest I would say love because I think it is the only one that could potentially feed all of the others. Hate could possibly come close since love and hate are two sides of the same coin and there is a fine line between them sometimes. This is just my personal opinion based on the experiences of my life.

ChartreuseDreams,

I disagree with your assertion that Hate is any different in that sense than Love.

Love can 'blind', it can cause people to act on the most irrational impulses. It conquers all in terms of absolving the others. For if one finds true Love, all others are lessened- subsumed within that blissful state.

Like I said love and hate are two sides of the same coin so could possibly have the same potential. For example if a lover betrays you, you could turn to hate them just as much as you once loved them.

Stabb, while the confessions of true love may indeed be powerful enough to blind, true love is a. rare and b. will rarely cause the person to go on a rampage of mass destruction..... helen of troy exempted. ok, so that's a bad example...

i still would say that hatred has potential to be stronger as it is far less controllable in the heat of a moment than love.

now, if we sling this into the actual reason for discussing the most powerful, many would argue love has the greatest potential for magical practice, though many use the power of hatred for equal results.

ChartreuseDreams,

I still disagree, for Love, in the heat of the moment, can cause people to make love and give birth to new life.

Hate does not create all of the others to the degree which Love can.

And it cannot create new life- it is a destructive emotion.

But we seem to be polarising the argument around these two opposing states...

Sure we are polarising around the primary two. They are the two with the greatest potential.

Sahahria, you bring up a good series of points. It's important to realize that the passions do all have destructive potential unless they are tempered by intellect towards moderation of sorts.

Then as Wolvie states, as they are the same duality, they equal one anothers potential for greatness.

Vlad the impaler Hated the Turks because he Loved his homeland and thus, gave rise to his greatness.

In the same vein, John Lennon created works of art which bred feelings of Love, because the world was full of Hate.

Could it not be said of those examples, that they were from inward reflections of the outer state the world was in?

It seems to me that without the reflection internally, then there is no growth or creative outwardly.

Perhaps controlled is a bad term, because it seems to lessen the idea of a passion. But when approached and applied to self, not the perception of self from the outward appearence then that is the key.

when love is turned outward greatness results and when hatred is turned inward outward destruction results.

i feel hate is the worse. it causes so much wrong in the world, causes people to kill others simply because they are different. this is wrong.

billythejust,

I disagree, in that Love is one of those listed specifically by Agrippa, contained within his philosophy, so it must be included for the purposes of this discussion, though I will admit that we have been sidetracked into discussing two principle passions.

That's what I was trying to say I just didnt say it very well lol

Stabb I would disagree, while what I have spoken of directly is love/hate, it applies to all of them:

desire, horror, joy, grief, hope, despair, boldness, fear, and anger

All of these passions feed off of each other, and if not balanced with a person's self then lead to destruction.

Such as loving something so much that when it dies you are lost to grief.

Loosing your hope so that all you can see is despair.

Being so bold that you have lost reasonable fear.

Each of the passions mirror each other, and in the center of each there is a divine balance that can be achieved that leads to all working mutually supportively while consuming each other. Simply put they are the passions of yin/yang if one simply can find the illusive balance between.

Ah yes Liebe,

This same idea is what I meant to infer in my initial response, where they all 'combine to form a moment of now'.

That balance- the fine point between and yet encompassing them all simultaneously to varying degrees, is what drives us to act, our muse, if you will.

I did not mean to imply that it should not be discuss for this thread. Merely clearly what Love is. It might help later down the road. If it was up to me I would lump the other passions in one group called "arrogance." And that would be that.

I received a newsletter from A.R.E. the other week explaining how Dante used the seven deadly sins to create his seven levels of Hell. It would be interesting to see how these eleven passions develop in this thread.

the interesting thing about the passions is they have to be learned to reach there full potential that's why parents play the biggest roll even when they are not playing a roll in a childs life. They are cause and effect and the person tends to be like a magnifying mirror for this the stronger the personality of the person the more magification and stronger the initial outside influence then the magnification raises exponentially. I hope that makes sense

billythejust,

You clearly stated that you would see Love taken from that list, as it is not valid to be defined as a 'passion'.

I see Love for what it is, a state of being. As it is a valid subject to talk about, there no reason to remove it. But if a person sees it as a passion then it does belong and may be discussed as such.

I think most people have seen the capital "I" and the small case "i" being discussed for the Self and Ego. Love may also be written as such. "Love" being the state and" love" being the emotion/ passion. And this is what I meant for it to stay on the list.

And since Love is what it is, passion comes from within. Not to show emotion but to create and express our inner Self.

These passions as listed may also be substitute with:
"I want," "That's mine," "I own that," etc.
It is nothing but arrogance to think that you actually own anything. It is an ego play.

actually dante said there were 9 hells and seven heavens

Ah Billy, now you are clearer. At first I followed but not fully. You are speaking of what people interpret as "love" not what it truly is.

Yes that is the hardest part to put across. It is a state of being, not an emotion but because of our limited language (english) only having one word for it, interpretation is left to the person reading it.

Perhaps it would have been more clearly stated in Greek :)

Greek and Dante are both on my lists. lol

As an addendum, after a short discussion about this on chat, I would see that all of them are as conduits for the nonconcious self to translate 'self image' to the concious Ego.

Billy, love is not a passion? If love is not a passion, then hate is not a passion either, perhaps.

From an occult point of view, the passions are the fuel by which one achieves greatness through deeds.

As the body is the part of the self that reacts on the 3rd dimensional existence, the mental is the part that translates spirit to physical and vice-versa. As such, the passions are part of the gateway to the spiritual and are the catalysts of exacting change on the subtle realm which then has its effects here in the physical.

My take on the three and how they work together. Again, the passions, being the fuel that starts the fire, as it were, are very strong and without being tempered when they arrive in the physical, or the spiritual, they are dangerous brushfires whether they go by the name of love or hate.

Hm. Fashionably late to the party as always. I see where Billy is discussing a different translation of "love" other than as a passion. My bad, good sir.

in the Latin version of the bible there are I believe 13 words for love

Wolvie: out of curiosity, is "greatness" in your mind defined by how "good" the motives are? Or is greatness also how "evil" the motives are? In terms of the passions, they are all inherently neutral forces of energy until enacted upon. That's at least my opinion about them.

both love and hate can lead to good or evil hate may have a shorter trip to evil. In my opinion one can only be truely great if they are "good". If the evil that one does out weighs the good then in my opinion they are not great there is nothing great about evil. it's easier to be evil then good .

That is interesting. I think that all of them are equal because they can be strong for different moments.

I don't believe love to be destructive at all...I don't believe it to be blinding either...what I do believe is people have gotten the wrong idea of what love is and have twisted the real meaning for their own convenience "I did it because I love you?"

Hate is a powerful passion but also shows weakness.

IMHO love is the strongest. Only love has the capacity to create and destroy in the same instance. Love can create life, and love can destroy life. Hatred, greed, etc can only destroy. Joy is but an insipid mockery of love.

Just my 2c worth...

possibly you're right, and i'm just letting my own experiences and current situations flavour my responses. no excuse. but i did say imho ;)

anger and love are the two strongest passions in my mind

How inspirtional of you CD to bring a new subject to the forum. It is very enlightening and makes enchanting reading. Thankyou! :)

I believe all emotions are counterbalanced by will-power and reason. In a way I believe we can all feel to the same extent and share feelings that are unique but equal.These are only varied as our moral structure and logic structure determine reason along with will-power varying in strength from person to person.
Or so my theory goes.

in response to Chartreuse's last post:
And thank-you for that! I found something interesting to read through finally!

Chartreuse, I believe the type of work you are doing will determine the type of energy you want to raise.

For example, for a healing work, you wouldn't raise the energies of hate. For a binding work, you probably wouldn't use hate either, depending on whether you were binding for protection or to be destructive. Etc, etc.

Personally I believe fear is the strongest. Even though I believe they are all so intertwined that where one leaves off the other begins, fear jumped out at me when I read this question.

Fear motivates all of our basic emotions. Fear to love or be loved. Fear to hate or be hated. Fear can lead to boldness and steer you toward grieg...and so on.

I was reading an article the other day that said the fear of change is one of the single largest motivators in humans. We become comfortable in our existence and fear the change that is inevitable.

Trivia, I didn't think of it before because I was too hung up on the 2 most obvious emotions love and hatred, but yes, fear is exceedingly powerful.

Thank you Jenova. Would you please post the author of the book you mentioned? I am interested in reading it.

this is a very interesting thread. of the 11 passions, i would say love is the greatest. as love is usually the greastest of anything. but with the greatest comes the opposite such as grief/despair. i think that all 11 are necessary. they balance each other out. one helps u become grateful for the other. (ie. grief is only there to help u realize what good there is. it helps u appreciate the smaller goods when they happen)

Jenova as I said that was merely my opinion.
Drakontion Hate can also create life many rapists hate women and that is why they rape them and some of those women get pregnant and give birth. The same happened to many of the female slaves during the United States slavery era.

Wolvie.

I have to agree with CD. I saw Jenova's answer as a way for us to look at something in a different way.

For example: Hitler was a GREAT leader. He was able to pull the German people out of the worst depression ever seen in Germany. He did it by being evil, ruthless, and never accepting defeat until it was inevitable. So, was he GREAT?

I don't want to start a new thread by any means...I just believe that when love is turned outward greatness does not always result. Hitler loved Germany...national or not.

That is why I see the 11 passions as so intertwined. His love for his country and his love for power led to fear, hatred, joy, horror, and hope. And a whole lot more.

I think that it is important to differentiate that these are all negative aspects of the emotion... they are PASSIONS of the unenlightened.

Love and Anger are beneficent qualities but are easily corrupted by those who are uncontrolled (i.e. 99.9999%).

Since these are all passions, I do not think that any one of them have a better function than the others.

Love as a virtue is unconditional and you do not judge the actions of others when you love. So if they leave/betray you e&, you do not hate them or any other sloppy emotion/ passion.

Anger is also a virtue; anger in its proper form enables us to act against injustice, inequality, and to stand up against tyranny.

Kglitterous...I find your answer fascinating. I always try to think of the positive of a negative situation and the negative fo the positive. I can see how the intertwining of the passions can cause hate to be negative and positive...

does make a lot of sense. i guess there is a balance to everything.

I believe that love is strongest! but i believe that hate is it's equal it's opposite, as god is the opposite to the devil, hell to the heavens they both hold equal power they just have different rules!

They are all equal because without equality, there would be imbalances of the mind. I do believe that people with anger problems or mental disorders (not retardation. I mean anger, and sociopathic issues) do have imbalances of their emotions. Only when we gain control and regularity of these "passions" will we find balance and inner peace.

You don't have to neglect your responsibilities to pursue your passions, and you don't have to neglect your commitments to do what you love. When you make an effort to incorporate your interests into your life, the fire within you ignites and grows. You feel excited, inspired, and fed by the flames that are sparked by living your life with passion for what you love. Whichever fire you feed so does the flame grow..However you decide to do this is your perogotive, your choice...

I think hatred is the strongest, i mean with love you can fall out of love then find new love, but when you hate it usually stays that way forever depending on who you are, that is how it is with me atleast, when i hate someone they are hated forever...

Out of all of them, in my opinion Hope is the strongest. You can't have any of the others with out the prescence, or lack of, Hope.
There is no Love without the Hope that it is possible to Love at all. Hope can conquer over despair and hate. Hope creates joy. It's basically the last little light that sprang out of Pandora's box...No matter what came before it, with Hope, life can still go on. Be it without one or more of the other 10 passions.

I would say that ten of the eleven can be borne of love, but that Divine Love is the strongest force of all.

love is the strongest out of the all but dont forget about hate that is a strong one as well.

I would have to say that they are equal. There are many different people out there. How can we possibly think one passion is stronger. We have rapists, serial killers, child abusers, animal abusers, then the religious freaks... Neither has an emotion which is stronger. I can say that love and hate are equal opposites.

i would have to say hope is stronger than hatred but that is just me

i feel love is most powerful wiht it anything is possible

This is an interesting topic o.o but anyways, I agree with a lot of you guys, the emotions are so complex. But, emotions are caused by the mind, it all starts with how someone handels a certain situation, it's kind of like the "is the glass half full or half empty?" kind of thing.

We can look at the brighter side or we can look at the darker more depressing side. I must admit, the darker more depressing side is much more easier to see and accept, but those that can see the light in everything and be joyous even when a loved one dies is truely talented.