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Alright, to put an end to the beating of a dead horse, I propose an experiment.

Most here are saying that the Necronomicon is fiction. Yet a few have claimed to use the incantations within to actually conjure the characters within.

As I said in the Necronomicon thread, my haunted house set design friends had some experience with belief causing actual manifestation of a fictional character essence.

Therefore I propose an evolution; the next logical step. This is not making fun, this is an actual proposed experiment.

Who thinks they can purposely conjure up and document the manifestation of a known fictional character, like say Albus Dumbledore or Schmendrick the Magician?

If the experiment is a success, even though the character is believed to be fiction, why do you suppose the fictitious character would be manifested in form?

Do you propose that simple belief can create reality, or do you believe that actual spirits would help out and take the fictitious form?

This should be fun to discuss at least....

This is an evolution - We are no longer discussing whether the book is real or fiction. It is proposing an experiment and discussing the whys thereof. Therefore, it warrants its own thread.

I think someone has seen the movie: Last Unicorn...a bit too much. Why would you wish to conjure something like that anywho? Specifically from such a dangerous book, such books are not ment to be toyed with in those ways. They are ment as conduits into the gates of Cthulu, not for child fantasies.

Look the Last Unicorn example was just a colorful metaphor. You can pick anything you want, really.

The experiment is - can you conjure something fictional?

If so... what is it really? Is it a manifestation of your belief, or an actual spirit shrouded in your sheep's clothing?

Documenting will require real hard proof, not just someone writing stuff down. That does not prove anything.

Unedited video would be just fine.

I still say, such aquisistions are very dangerous and not to be tried, rifts may open and bring something that the world would perhaps not need. Nor rites of banishing repel. Just watch what you are doing if you do try something that...Vocational.

Okay so this actually can work. It is very possible. REGUARDLESS of the damages it could cause.

So for instance, say that you conjure something from the necronomicon. You use it as a servitor. A servitor is a manifestation of your own creation. It serves you, bids to your will, you're own personal slave to speak. If it breaks your rules you destroy it.

The creation of a servitor is a solid thing that you create yourself. You put into it your sigils and spells. You can use ceramics, paper mache, a drawing, a painting, a family relic. So say you conjure an old one and its bound to this creation of yours...if it tries to kill you, simply break the creation...this in turn breaks the summoned creature...simple as that.

Get over the wiccan ways of karma biting you in the ass...its fluffy.

No offense to wiccans...I was one once too.

Good point about the servitor, at last, someone with experiance speaks their mind. Dangerous or not, let us hope it is contained.

I've created a few servitors in my time. One was for positive energy, another to keep me from sleeping, another to keep an ex away until I was healed from him. All three worked extremely well, and once they had served their purpose I disposed of them.

Thats the thing with servitors though. If you create them, get your use out of them, then leave them sit...they have no direction anymore. You aren't using them so they run rampant. Once you're done using something dangerous....destroy it. Like the one I made to keep me from sleeping, I'd gone about 3 months with no more than 15 minutes of sleep throughout. It had to be destroyed once I started my new job which was taxing and I knew I needed rest. Had I let it live, it could have caused serious physical damage to me.

Now, was it actually manifested, or did it lay dormant within such doll? I think he is talking about simple manifestations...Actual physical sight.

A servitor takes a physical (or ghostly) appearance...as long as you give it one. The doll is just the attachment...the leash so to speak.

I tried it once. in my youth i was a little bit dark - i guess it's the goth in me. anyway, i did one of the evocations from a necronomicon. nothing appeared, no evil smells, no demonic shapes, no whisps of smoke; but there was a loud rumble and the walls shook a little. at first i thought a large lorry had driven past the house, but it transpired later that it was an earth tremor. maybe it was just a coincidence, but earth tremors are rare in England, so i never tried again.

fictional things can be brought into reality. there are many things we do not understand yet. maybe there are formless things in another dimension that are just waiting for our imaginations to give them form so they can manifest. it matters not whether we evoke Abbadon or Nyalathotep, or arch-angel Gabriel for that matter. the entity will fit into the form we create for it.

I am sure you could do it - but could you control it? why would you want to create such a thing? maybe someone has already done this - maybe that is what fuels the mass stupidity that is destroying the world.

Very well stated Karnstein, my point precisely.

it's all of "mind over matter" if you believe in something strong enough then with time as such emotions grow it can be willed into reality,all depending on the individual who believes or disbelieves..anything is possible with the mind.

That's an interesting thought but I don't know if it's possible...Though it's definitely something to ponder...It could just be the essence of what was thought up going into an empty shell, that's the best way I can describe what I think about that.

Its all in how you create it. Make it look amusing so if it starts to aggravate you, you can banish it with laughter...nothing has more power than you let it have.

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/gegregor.html

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chaos/texts/fotamec2.html


So visible manifestation of servitors now is it? The barbaric evockations of the old grimoires, speak of doing these things.

Not to be a nag on this one, aren't there better things to do with your energies then have to generate something you can see??

Aside from it being probable, and very possible, the lot on these pages wouldn't have the energy base as it takes years of energy work to be able to form such spirits.

that's pretty much what I was thinking Kathrynkrypt. i think you have it.

First, I must say, I have dabbled in the Necronmicon and find it to be a wonderful book.

Conjuring anything takes great knowledge and strength. The first step is to Know your limitations! If you are trying to conjure something that has a greater power then you, it will not obey and will trick you. Quite frankly, it would stem to reason that if you call a fictional character you are leaving the door open for any spirit to answer.

Knowing too, that spirits can be playful and tricky - wouldn't you guess you have opened the door for them to play with you? They will not give you true answers, as they cannot. The questions themselves do not warrant true answers.

I do agree Demonia

Then I pose another question....what purpose would that servitor entity serve??

What would spending that much effort be used for? Surely you have other servitors doing errands for you, that you don't need one so flashy as a life size dumbledore?

Personally I like my servitors the way they are. Small or large depending on their job, and just on the edge of consiousness, just so the mind is made aware of their presense so they can be pointed out in a room or corner if need be, then gone off back to their business.

However doing such things requires emotional and mental control. Most of which took years to gain. So unless you plan on opening this thread every year to collect information on a test group.

It is one thing to discuss mentally if such things are possble. As much as I enjoy this question and took 4 years to make it happen, I will not stand and see magickal challenges discussed if their is no purpose behind the magicks. Doing things for no reason is unbalanced. Their is always a reason behind the use of such energy, if there is no purpose for it, no reason, then such methods of creation will not occur. You have to have your entire being aligned in such ways that you bring the entity forth from a thought form into manifestation of some form.

However you can only get these to a shimmer of their true selves as the current limits the laws of incarnation do not allow for servitors to be fully manifest, not anymore anyway.

I have actually successfully called forth one of the entities mentioned breifly in the necronomicon as a servitor. It is the one known as the kin to the great goat of the woods nyarlathotep, however, in the book itself a name is not given. This made it very difficult to bring forth.

How did I do this then?

Firstly I communed with the great goat himself and asked for guidance to find his kin. He duely obliged at a cost. I had to perform a task for him before he would allow me any information to aid me in my quest.

Once I had completed the task, and was given the information I needed. I then simply called forth the great goats kin.

Once I had called it forth, i then questioned myself as to it's existence. And my conclusion was this:

In my opinion it existed only to me and was only an imagination/will based existence. It had no function and did nothing to aid me in what i needed.
As for the great goat Nyarlathotep, well again I believe that to have been my imagination/willpower that caused it's manifestation.

I do believe that the necronomicon holds a certain power, but I believe that power to be some kind of key to the imagination.

If you wish for something hard enough, one day it will happen.

My advice therefore is thus.

Be very very cautious when dealing with magickal workings based on information taken from the very beautiful work of art.

Mener

I have read the necronomicon but i have never really tried to call anything from it, but i believe if a person wants something bad enough they can do almost anything to get it...

I suppose if u believe enough you can conjure anything or anyone. its about ur perception and strength of mind. average minds are much more powerful than we give them credit for. and can do much more than we can imagine. this of course is my opinion.

Now, provided that we could conjure a fictitious character... ill use Dumbledore since u had mentioned it earlier. Would it really be dumbledore... probably not. Unless u want to take this even deeper and say that something like harry potter is real. maybe the author, in writing such a book could have created a parallel world with her mind. in that case... then yes it would be really dumbledore. but i dont know, thats a stretch.

What i think is that you could create the energy and then perceive that energy as dumbledore.

I hope that makes sense.

Everybody, please specify which one of the Necronomicon version you used!

I would venture to say Like the concept of the Neverending story.

How the mind creates a world in relation to the story read. Then One could theoretically conjure up dumbledore, harry, Moldyoldworts out of it, into this plane, esp if ex: one had a baby one could implant their spirits in to get them a body.

I wish I could find a book that would have these incantations, so I could experiment

You don't pull the charges and summons out of books, you craft them to suit your purposes when you need it.

whatever the purpose of what u intend to do
of course its possible
everything in fact, is possible

but again, think of the consequences
you do this, there is NO going back, this could change your life forever, once you start something, you have to finish it, it might not just be yourself thats involved in this, in this you involve everything and everyone you either hate love or know

Also, (forgive me admins for the double post) i can say i have read the book and i have had experiences with what it can do(more wrong than right) and if i could go back to undo what i did, i would, for now, whenever i see the book, it scares the living shit out of me

I agree with what bloodgod said in his first post. However, i have to say that I am not scared of the book, but I may be just a little scared of what I could do with the book. Hence my reluctance to complete my third read of it.

Mener

I love the books.

It provides a system of working, structure, and correspondences as well as a thought and theory to how things were done. The patterns of it are facinating. I have worked many successful invocations from it, as well as have modified many of my own works after its constructs.

The rite of transformation i have, which was completed successfully over a year ago, has allowed for greater control over my arts, as well as the aspects of my life which i had to come to terms with anyway. Its not something that should be feared but embraced as the no nonsense way to get things done. If you cannot face the journey, then you shouldn't have started it in the first place.

perhaps you misread, i fear it now because of the things i did with it
maybe i forgot to mention that nothing went wrong, it all went as i wanted it to, but with that, sometimes you do things, that a year later, you wish you had not

Bloodgod.

You should never regret anything you ever do. You have done them. Move on to the next thing, learn your lessons, and grow. Everything that happens for a reason, you just need to figure out the reason in order to bring about positive growth in your life, and the lives of others.

I see what you mean now bloodgod, and I have to agree with Infernal. You should never regret what you have done as a result of reading such books. I can easily understand how you are afraid to cast from it again due to the fact that you cast such terrors the last time.

I myself have cast a few things based on what I have read, and I have also decided within myself to not cast again until i understand the greater scheme a little better.

I found (personally) that the book did nothing to help my understanding, but actually distorted my understanding to something more evil yet somehow benine.

Mener

Thats a good way to put it Mener.

The book, the contents, the Azagothoth, the YugSoth what have you, are all well and good.

For me I find it nothing more then a book of bindings to conjure up any dead forgotten god, as well as provide the tools for transformation of self, and the best antimagick protective magicks ever to be concived and written. Its a masterpiece for that. Anything else I pay little mind to as tools which I can make better.

hehe
i think that we had this conversation about a year ago infernalmage
and yes you have a point, sadly most things that u do cant just be forgotten
but im straying the subject

thanks for the opinion though, a very good point:)

I was not here a year ago. Not on this or any other name.

Just reading this post and have to thank Nightblossom for her input.
When I mentioned my ghostly servitor it was suggested I was ether
A ….. mad
B ….. working to hard at chaos magic.

I know what I was seeing, my servitor was by accident and appeared twice in my room around 3 to 4 in the morning so yeh I guess it was real to me and just in my mind to you lol
I was able to visualize it around me … mind over matter I guess

I do not think beliefe can create reality, something is either real or it isn't