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I have been inspired to learn the ways of the magi,unfournatly not many people are willing to help,I figured my fellow "darkness dwellers" would help so if you have any information on the rules etc. and more importantly where to fing actual spellbooks please tell me something.

well there is no one way to learn...but thousands
do some research on differeing religions and magikal paths first.....decide on one or more that pertain to your views on life....then research them

I am in the same position as you, but as daermon said, I dont think that there is one particular way of going about it, apart from trying to gather information and see wha conclusions you come to about yourself and your perspectives... it would be ncie to talk to you further on this subject.

Don't you worry, because what ever it is your needing to find will make it's way to you in time.

im afraid im of no help on this

Some of the greatest magics we create are those within ourselves. Will is your greatest ally and strength, the Will to fend off magic, and the will to create it. Build your spiritual strength first, then begin very slowly otherwise you can be easly overwhelmed.

i agree with everyone here there are many paths one may follow,for the most important thing as been said before pick the form that best supports your personnal beliefs and follow your heart and intuition they hold many keys to the realm of magick

Try reading the Satanic Bible.

Yes lycian... as that is he only possible source....

Yes there are other sources, not just the satanic bible. Look into Qabalism, Wiccan, Mason, ect. Also, the Golden Dawn is something to look into.

Want to tell us a bit more on that, as you sound quite versed...

I can't say much anything new here, but I'll give you a friendly advice: Never try to run until you've learn to walk especially when it comes to matters like this.. I wish you luck in finding your tao..

I'm versed, but when it comes down to the search of magical knowledge and occult, all I can do is show you a means of finding your path, you must pick which one and walk it.

- Sin (VII)

I will say, Magic, in its self, is Natural, just like wind, water, fire, storms, floods, typhoons. It has not a alignment until used in a purpose that would cause it other wise.

I have the rules on what Magic is, I need to dig them up and post them.

- Sin (VII)

being a maji takes a life time to learn to appreciate it but in return it has great benifits

Indeed it does, why one must be willing to dedicate ones self to the study of it

Ummm... you know he can learn any language he wants to pratice magic. Sorry but Gaelic is only that of wiccan, and to be more accurate irish wiccan. I would suggest looking into Latin, Arabic, Airamay, eqyptian, Hebrew, or just look into spells that have been brought to enlgish and not have to worry about that right now.

A beginning user of the divinities power should start out small and work their way up.

- Sin (VII)

here is something out of one of my books, concerning magic.

"Magic combines in a single science that which is most certian in philosophy with that which is eternal and infallible in religion. It reconciles perfectly and incontestably those two terms so opposed on the first view - faith and reason, science and belief, authority and liberty. It furnishes the human mind with an instrument of philosophical and religious certainty, as exact as mathematics, and even accounting for the infallibility of mathematics themselves."
- "The Essential Golden Dawn"

Also another bit from the same book.

"The Word Magic is derived from the Chaldean word Maghdim, which means wisdom with the addition of the general sense that we give to the term philosophy. The Magi, or the adepts of Magic - We may even call them priests of the Wisdom of antiquity - were philosophers dedicated to the study of the universe, that sphere whose center, they said, is everywhere, whose circumference has no bounds, and at the heart of which are united without being confounded - or are separate, without being lost from sight - the physical, the intellectual and the divine worlds: the triple face of all knowledge, the triple base of all analysis, the triple stem of all synthesis"

Oh and last but not least, the one piece I wanted to share.

"Magic in and by itself is neither "bad" nor "good." It is neither "Black" nor "White." Magic is a neutral process that can be employed either for positive or negative ends. What makes magic either "evil" or "Sacred" depends purely on the intent or pbjective of the magician, and whether that intent is corrupt or sublime."

There are some bits to chew on. Hope you enjoy.

- Sin (VII)

Scionofrequiem, I really appreciate the information, the detail of it is very beneficial to me at this point... so thats from "Golden Dawn" did you say? As that soud slike it may be a good place for me to start, do you agree?

Most Welcome

Golden Dawn is a good group to look into. There are a lot of its workings released to the public, but there are alot of rituals and such that will not see public eye, do to our secrecy. Golden Dawn, as one can see through the "Essential Golden Dawn" book, deals alot with Theurgy and Qabalahism, which is some of the oldest means on magical interupertation, spell casting and ritual work.

Yet, Thelema is also another piece one might want to look into, my girl friend, Corpus, is a Thelema. Thelema, if I remember right, was Created by Aleister Crowley, an Ex member of the Golden Dawn, and I beileive his assitant Israilie Regarde also helped in the creation of Thelema.

Not entirly sure on that, but my girl friend Corpus might be able to expand on it a bit more.

Also I'm willing to add more clips from the Essential Golden Dawn book. Seeing its a public book, which you can buy anywhere, I have no need to feel as if I'm betraying information of the Order, by relaying what was written by Chic and Sandra Tabatha Cicero.

- Sin (VII)

I am not to familliar with the ways of the magi... tho they are one of my trusted allies i don't pry to much into their business... I tend to stick to my part of the deals

hhhmmmm. i dont know.

I suggest you do some research, learn basic meditation (to truly contemplate the mystical arts, one must have a sound and clear mind) and check out what's out there. Be very cautious of cults however.
They have a tendency to decieve and trap the uninformed.

Basically look stuff up, maybe pick up some reading materials (books on Wicca and if you wish to, the works of Aleister Crowley; but be careful with his theories and methodology; as with all magicks)


just my thoughts.

Meditation is something one should learn, no matter what type of style you fall into. Meditation does help with focusing and trying to clear ones mind.

Sin (VII)

wish I could help you, but this is something I have no clue about..

I've already done a lot of meditation, so that isn't much of a problem for me, althogh my skills in it are always improving.

ohhh sounds like fun, I was thinking about doing research on that. Might practice it.

I am sitting here and my hair stands on end, and I sense others talking about me.. just kidding. I am here to elaborate a little on Thelema. I am still fairly new to this.. Thelema was introduced through Alester crowleys writings, one of which ..."The Book of The law". Basically Thelema is a small form based upon the golden Dawn, and chaos magick.
Here is a quote from a website based upon the Theology of Thelema.. " The theology of Thelema postulates all manifested existence arising from the interaction of two cosmic principles: the infinitely extended, all-pervading Space-Time Continuum; and the atomic, individually expressed Principle of Life and Wisdom. The interplay of these Principles gives rise to the Principle of Consciousness which governs existence. In the Book of the Law, the divine Principles are personified by a trinity of ancient Egyptian Divinities: Nuit, the Goddess of Infinite Space; Hadit, the Winged Serpent of Light; and Ra-Hoor-Khuit (Horus), the Solar, Hawk-Headed Lord of the Cosmos"

Here is the site...http://oto-usa.org/theology.html

Now.. I belong to certain group pertaining to this religion. Do what though wilt be the whole of the law is one of our basic ideals. Thelema is one of the highest misunderstood branches of the craft besides Alchemy I think. And one of teh hardest to understand. I dotn have a whole lot of time to digress here.. But.. If any of you are absolutely interested then get in touch with me through yahoo
Thelema713

My suggestion would be the satanic bible.

The Satanic Bible is an okay referense, if you want to go that rout. Yet, there are more options out there then just the satanic Bible. Look into all aspects and then decide the rout you want to take.

The Practice of Magic must fit the person, through and through, if people want to live in their dark little world, then go for.

Yet, if you want to find what fits then look into everything, not just the dark magics.

- Sin (VII)

I am gonna keep this very short.. why is it that you keep giving reference to the satanic bible. Anton Lavey was not a mage.. he was a religious icon for satanists. And had a very broad cult . How is the Satanic Bible going to help someone in search for their true path?

I was looking over Langauges,

Aramaic which is the langauge of Christ, resembles much of Hebrew. I'm going to do a bit of study on this langauge.

As much as this Langauge is used by the church, it was probably used in old formats of ritual work back in the day. Something to look into.

Old Langauges, the roots of the beginning, are the best sources to learn, specially if one wishes to learn magic. Also knowing a bit of the history of what you follow is good as well.

If your going to get into magic, you need to study, it will take time, but that is how its supposed to be. No one can just gain strength over night, they need to work at it.

- Sin (VII)

all very good advise thank for your generousity. to fully explain what I want is to not be restricted by religious morales, if possible I want to be a mage of neutrality(I beleive they wore red robes as opposed to white or black) not to boast but I am a fairly good warrior so I look to combine steel and magic. so if you can help me by that, I am a little interested about Crowley but I don't know much about him if you still think that fits my needed tell me more, the same goes for the satanic bible, or any other I may have missed. I mostly need spells that can be used in battle, I must fight someone who is a powerful magic-user so please help( for info on that refere to my story on my journal) that you for the help so far I will try to discuss more later. thank you

Okay I hate to be mean, but I need to on this. This isn't some Dungeons and Dragon game, your not some red rode wizard of the tower of High Sorcerery.

Magic isn't some damn game, you can hurt people, hurt yourself through the use of spells and rituals, if you hurry through it.

It pisses me off that I have went through this trouble to pull out a book to share with someone who just wants to be a raistlin majere and doesn't understand reality.

I'm glad someone took serious note of everything, Thank you Echo for the time you took to reply and ask question about the different areas.

If anyone else has questions about magic, and nothing regarding Dragonlance, please feel free to ask. I would be delighted to share a bit of knowledge with anyone that wants to be real.

Until then, Laters

- Sin (VII)

Well, this is exactly what puts me off magery and vampirism.

People do NOT respect it.

People think that film is reality, they just want to be the coo character from Hollywood, and they can just waltz into an RPG world, and be the star of a film.

Stop playing pretend please children, your ruining it for everyone else.

Magic isn't something you play around with, if you screw up during ritual work, you can seriously hurt yourself and/or others.

Magic also, isn't like a fireball, its subtle, and it will effect a person over amounts of time.

If your going to study and learn magic, do it the right way and be real about it, if you do not, the possibilities of the Divinities getting upset will become high and your life probably will become really crappy.

- Sin (VII)

One thing I learned in my time (which is admittedly little) is that a good portion of what is printed in books and such are incorrect... sometimes purposely misleading... traps are always something to watch for... else you find yourself a bit over your head....

Awwww sorry I cant be any help, but good luck on your quest, it sounds intresting!

hmm magick i used to know quite a bit of it ..though proving itself useful, most all it did was cause harm to me and others around me ...eventually causing my body to shut down for several years...having been awakin i can not remember for the life of me any such spells...just be careful ...i have also found the best way is to be creative enough to make your own spells ..so you wont accidentaly fall under the control of a force you can neither stop or comprehend...that is all

Like I said, Magic is powerful. You don't go screwing around with the Divinities and think your going to be safe.

- Sin (VII)

Well, I did anticipate that it would be difficult, and thats why I want to learn from the ground up.

Any Magicks you learn will be meaningless. Any real magick has long been forgotten or hidden away. Anything you learn will be shallow shadows of the real thing. Don't waste the valuable time of your mortality on such fruitless endeavers.

A very strong opinion, and ne that I dont htink everyone would share.

So why do you think that the truth is in the age of it?

Yes, many would disagree with you on that comment.

I also disagree with that post in reguards to magick being useless. The old craft is still being used, so what was stated as the lost magick is still productive even in this age.

Unless you've got a dezl old spell book, any books you may possess have been filterd through time. Disagree if you'd like, no prob. You'd have to go to eastern Europe or the middle east to find any real shit. If you find it at j random book store like Barnes & Nobles its bullshit.

Alright I'm gonna drop that.
Don't forget that not all magick is based on spirits, nature and such, there is magick based around technology. Techno-Mage if you will. Its a very overlooked thing. The basis for it is just that of most magicks, be it high spirituality or an exceptional Chi flow, with some exceptions. Check it out as an option upon the many others stated.
Of saying this means I contridicted myself because of earlier comment on text needing to be old to be useful. My bad.

I have refrained from posting here because of the bovine fecal matter concentration.

To find magic/majick/magik you must first look within. Deep inside yourself there is a limitless fount of power. Finding it and accessing it is different for everyone. It is not a light undertaking, it is deathly serious.

The first maxim of magik: Magik *IS*.

As has been said this is not a game, and to use the same reference as a reminder, Raistlin donned black robes after a time.

Approach magik with purity and you will serve it well. I did not type an error in that sentence. The most powerful magiks of all are the subtle ones, those that seek glory in magik are consumed. To effect change without you must effect change within. Magik is a river and you are the banks of the river. You can either clear the channel for swift flow, or acknowledge all the little riffles, eddies and tides, and allow magik to flow into your life.

Very Well Said CygnusNoir, I agree greatly with your wording on the matter.

And I'm not going to get into it with you on the matter Fritz, you have your own ideals to the matter, like I, Corpus, Echo and CygnusNoir have our own.

- Sin (VII)

CygnusNoir, that is exactly my opinion. Im glad that there are at least a small amoutn of us that aren't "playing pretend."

No help there sorry.

this is my answer...

you seem to misunderstand me, True I have read those books and since I admit I have not been in the magic loop for a very long time, I do know the time it takes to gain any real knowledge or power. To clarify by nuetral, i mean that for now I refuse to pick sides on whether i want to use my power (when I acquire it) for the respective good or evil. Raistlin is a mere character of fiction anyone with eyes and common sence can see that. I asure you that as soon as I get a spellbook I will go in search of the dragon orbs or find the great library, I know neither really exsist ( I'm not going to take the "test" at the Temple of High Sorcery) this is Earth not Krynn, those are just the types of books that interests me, fiction and I know that all it is is fiction. thank you for trying to explain that, but i clearly know that this is'nt some child's game. My life may rest on this and I will do whatever it takes no matter how long it takes (if I survive my quest), no one will stop me. I apologize for the misunderstanding maybe next time I'll word my thoughts better. I know you have put your lives into this and I deeply respect that, so hopefully you can look past all this, you have experience, (all I know at the moment are a few ellemental spells),you are teachers, and I wish to learn from you.

dont think you can decie that you will use that sort of power for good or evil. I think you have to see what direction you go in.

Wha I mean is that you cannot just decide to be one or the other, as consequences and the will are very grey areas.

Most of the people I knew who played in magic told me there's one important road...

Those who would ruin your aura with magic are more likely to make the road your on look good. Then let your own good interentions trap you...

gret responsibilty with those powers & abilities

I once studied magic before I had so many other responsibilities in my life. May I reccommend a book called ZOLAR'S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF ANCIENT AND FORBIDDEN KNOWLEDGE it won't teach you magic but certain parts will prepare your mind for learning.

good point Echo, I'll just wait and see where it takes me, thanks.

It would be better to get them offline..Since you are not in california I cannot tell you where to get some of the best.....

i don't know much about where you live but i do most of my research at books a millon ( tacky i know)

I have thought of that, but sadly I live in a small town it called Parker's Chapel ever heard of it ? I didn't think so. so I don't know what to do. but thanks.

Length. (Good discussion. You have some good nuggets in here.)