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Does anyone here practise Vampyric Magicks or any kind of magicks that work well for us vampyr?

I personally do some vampyric magicks, and practise some ancient magicks, but my main area of casting is Chaos Magick and Astral Magick.

I find these very exhillerating and have found out a great many things from my arts.

M

Vampyrecrafte:
In general, this is the magick practiced by vampires or vampyre lifestylers. Many of them are pagan and follow the old ways, and the ways of magick are an integral part of their beliefs.
Most vampires or vampyre lifestylers practice numerous techniques associated with energy manipulation. Many also practice some form of magick, most oftenly ritual magick or chaos magick. Vampyrecrafte refers to magickal techniques specifically designed by vampires and vampyre lifestylers to take advantage of their unique abilities. Vampyrecrafte often has a dark flavor to it, although in general it is more of a balance between dark and light techniques.
I hope this helps.

Thanks for the responses, i am really happy that there are others who are interested in this.

Please note that I have never been nor ever will be a pagan. I do not believe in any god or goddess, and i never will do. Also the fact that I worship nothing (not even myself) would suggest that i only believe in myself and my own abilities.

M

menerfecious,

I suppose that you are unwilling to discuss your understanding of these 'Magicks' with us?

I'm really very curious as to which 'Ancient' practices you have learned of as well.

The only kind of magick I've been doing lately has been some energy work...so I can't really help ya, or I would.

I do practice magick, but I do it religiously as a Wiccan. I'm intersted in hearing about the source of your magick.

What would be an example of the Vampirecrafte? Is there one?

I didn't know there were magicks restricted to vampyric uses really... but I guess it would be interesting to learn. Please share, (as stabb stated).

I into wicca I don't know much about vamp magic

Vamp magic is not really my deal. I grew up with mostly voo doo and hoo doo. i do practice some simple spells like those for protection. meditation helps a lot. but vamp magic is something i've never tried.

Again a case where human words seem to be used to label Energy Manipulation...If you choose to use such words, all would be actually practicing a form of kaos magick, as each adjusts to make it work for themselves...

These seems like very interesting craft, I would aslo like ot learn and know more about the chaosmagick as Stabb already ask I am also eager to know more, please if you could provide with links or info it would be nice please.

Thats what I was thinking, enigma. Any form of magic is manipulating energy, as previously discussed in the "magic" post. I don't magic is limited to any race or species. There may be types of magic, suck as dark or light, but I've never heard of vampyric magick.

I'm with STABB, I'd like to learn of these practices

I don't practice any of the above, but I do like to study all things occult related. I would assume anything falling under "vamp magic" would be blood related or energy related I suppose?

;)=

hmmm....well considering that there is so many different kinds of magicks out there...it is hard to come accross one if you dont know what you are looking for

I go through many phases and during them i find that different types of magick work for different phases

In a small world with different people with different cultures with different magical abilities - i like it. :]

Try this one for lessons that I am currently teaching...the url is: http://z10.invisionfree.com/Blackcatwicca/index.php?showforum=96

You could also do a google search for either chaos magick, austin osman spare, phil hine or liber null and you will find many links to some pretty amazing chaos magick stuff.

As for the Vampyric Magick, I am a little dubious as to whether I should share my knowledge. What i will say is that there are necromantic rituals and some satanic style rituals that I personally have not performed.

As for those who try to call me out (you know who you are) I am NOT intimidated by you words. I know what I know and I do what i do.

I would like to make people aware that I have never trodden a pagan path and that I am a neutral mage (well as netral as one can be when working with chaos magick and astral magick).

I have been asked what ancient magicks I have perfomed in the past. I have worked (and still use) ancient egyptian protections, aswell as being a competent healer using ancient egyptian techniques. I also have dabb;ed in ancient sumerian magicks, but found them to lack any stability due to their age.

I hope this clears anything up and please feel free to ask more.

M

hm. By vampiric rituals, I would only assume that you speak of rituals that make use of the qualities of the vampire.

I have written very recently a spell that is centered specifically around my vampiric nature and am not ashamed to admit that it involves blocking and demolishing a rival. While I won't share the spell, I will tell you that it seems to have effect and is written as a continuing spell that involves invoking my vampire nature and bringing it to the forefront.

Lord Ryu has a few vampiric rituals under his belt too, but I will leave those for him to discuss here if he wishes.

I personally have had little success with ancient practices other than the correspondances and the ancient gods.. But in terms of methodology, I find the rituals are too stringent and antiquated to suit my modern tastes and needs.

I would like to add, that although some of my rituals are becoming vampire-oriented to work with my vampiric self, they still follow traditional occult lines and travel in the same strain as my evolution on the magical path.

That is interesting...very interesting

thanks for the link, i will go check this out right now

Not to come off rude but only those close to me will get any of my magicks so that I know they will not be used wrong, and even still only few that I feel can handle it and understand it will get them. Brother Stabb you know I have love for you if you wish one of my rites message me and I will send you as many as you need.

thats very understandable, and noble of you

menerfecious,

At risk of sounding rude, I sincerely believe that you are making it up.

I don't need to google anything of Chaos magick, as I own a substantive library, but the point I'm making, is that you have come onto a VR forum, claiming some great knowledge of these things and yet, I find little substance to your words.

In private, you have asked for me to view an off-site forum, which frankly, is sparse.

VR is a place which extends itself to other occultic studies beyond vampires, so what would be your problem with discussing your ideas on Chaos and 'Ancient' magicks here?

I see a number, including myself, who are willing to listen, but you have not yet said anything that I consider worth hearing.

again, you are right STABB

This thread has been very interesting. I practice Kitchen witchery and Egyptian magick. I find the vampire magick comments very interesting, though.

yes i pratice wicca, and i work with candles and crystals, and it's mostly all in the power of beliving you can do it.

I wasn't aware that there is a Vampirermagic...

*shakes her head and agrees with Stabb and Sacred*

I haven't heard of magic specific to vampires either thesnarkhunter. Perhaps some online searching would be in order...

I born into a family of Witches. So I don't really "use" any kind of magic persay.....but when I do use it I pull from many kinds.

I really don't see a reason for a vampire to need magic in the first place personally.

there is such a thing as Vampyric Magick. It pulls from many forms of Energy and other types of Magicks.

I really don't know why i bothered.

I started a topic about magicks, asking quite a specific question, not once did I offer my knowledge to anyone and yet i get barraged with comments saying that this thread is over the top???!!!???

How can this thread be over the top???

Some have said that I know nothing in private messages (or at least insinuated it) and others question me like they are on a witch-hunt.

The Spanish inquisition dies out a great many years ago if i remember correctly.

Please let me know if the inquisitors are still active as i will need to mask myself from their wrath. LMARO

Some asked for more information, so i offer a link to another site and give advice as to howw to find the information sought as an alternative, and still I get barraged about it.

I wonder if some of you have even bothered to read all of the comments.

For those who have indeed left negative comments about this thread (which in my opinion and in the opinion of some others I am sure) is a perfectly good thread and has no fault in it atall.

I am not prepared to share my knowledge with everyone unless they are prepared to follow my carefully designed lesson structure.
I am not some charlatan who will just say..."You do this, then that, pray to him/her say this and then it'll all be done"...OMG no
A good teacher/tutor/mentor will ensure that his/her students can learn everything that he/she knows, and indeed will in turn learn from his.her students.

After all, magick is all about learning.

To be brutally honest (and i don't care if i sound rude or not).....I am ashamed to be associated with such a bunch of infidels.

For those who have not made negative comments or attempted to barrage me with your demands.....I wish you all the best in your search for answers.

Darkest Blessings

M

Quite frankly in my personal opinion all i see here is a lot of older memebers of VR having a go at someone who is realitively new. Just because someone is new to VR doesnt make them stupid. Some of you are prattling on about Vampirermagic.....wtf i think if you look closely and actually research this you will find no such thing, However if you then research Necromancy you will find this is the type of magick prefered (but not the only one used) by most true blood vampyr (by true blood i mean someone who is decended from the vampyr race and not one of these so called *turned* vampire's or enki forbid someone comming online to RP at being a blood drinker)!
I have come accross so many fakies and flakes in my time it is no surprise the human race portrays the vampyr as a sub-species rather than a species in it's own right. I think us true blood vampyr and indeed the half bloods too have enough people victimising us so why do i see people supposedly of the same race turning on each other just because they disagree on bloody maqgicks (of which there are innumerable forms). I choose magicks of many forms to practice and i am surely not willing to tell complete strangers how i practice these magicks as i do not know whether they actually have the ability to cope with them. (no offence to those who can). In short i suggest that if you want to have a go at someone for being full of BS you should look to those who are doing RP pretending to be what they are not, not those who simply come here to ask questions.

Well thats my rant for the day so i will leave you to think on what i have said, if you disagree pm me.

Mim.

I agree with Queen, there was a nicer way to go about all of that...I wouldn't want to share anything with someone who is trying to make me look like a fool ;)

Thankyou Lilith and Rose....I appreciate the supportive comments.

I must say, however, that I personally do not believe in the Annunaki (Enki, Enlil) concept per say. However, I do believe that the sumerians merely gave a name (in the same way that the christians have) to the first of the vampyr race (according to the christain belief the names are Caine & Lilith...cain possibly being Ka-In as described by sumerian beliefs and Lilith being Lilitu...these two being the offspring of Enki & Enlil).

It is my belief that a vampyr is an immortal soul that has been banished to this world to suffer in torment until it has been sufficiently punished for it's misdemeanour that caused the punishment. It is possible (in my opinion and knowing some of the Vampyric magicks that exist) that another could well banish a soul to this world in this way for no apparent reason atall, thefore causing much hatred towards mankind. I believe that this could well be why the idea of blood drinking first appeared. I think (if my belief is correct) that a vampyr may well have started to drink the blood of others not to survive but as a way to punish mankind for thier deeds and in anger at being in a place that it did not wish to be. This TRADITION (he says very lightly) has continued to this day.

I have to agree with Lilith in the fact that there are way too many Wannabe vampyr (the ones who can't even spell it correctly are wannabe's as far as I am concerned), and also that there are too many within our civilisation that have been "TURNED" and therefore are not (in my eyes) true Vampyr.

I myself was born a vampyr, and after much research have found that in my last life my mortal coil gave up merely hours before I re-emerged within this Mortal Coil.....and I am sure that this will continue on for a great many years.

Please know that I am not some charlatan who knows nothing, I have the knowledge, wisdom and experiences of over 13 lifetimes (this is because I am acutely aware of at least 13 past lives I have had, some including Ancient Egypt, Ancient Sumeria and at least 3 pre-civilised lifetimes).

Therefore, I do NOT wish people to Mock me or attempt to Intimidate me, I really do not want to be forced into a corner in this matter, I do not fair well in corners and I have the habit of acting much like a RAT when backed into a corner (ie i go for the throat and never let go).

Again, thanks for the positive comments.

Darkest Blessings

May Shub-Nigguruth guide us all as he did in the past.

M

Seeing how you put it like that, i suppose it's not a bad thing to be asked to share my interests. However, I have NEVER stated that the forum is my own craetion. Infact Black Cat Wicca is maintained by a group of people (of which i am not a member) and is frequented by a vast array of magick users and occultists.

I have found that many have liked my structure and form of the lessons i teach (by the site owners request) and have had absolutely no negative feedback.

What I study is Chaos Magick, slightly associated with the Necronomicon (not the fictional version written by the famous literary personality known as H P Lovecraft, but indeed the actual sumerian version written by Al Azif - also known as the Mad Arab).

In my research into the necronomicon I have found that many things that lovecraft wrote about were obviously loosley based on the actual texts. A copy of which i have.

I have also studied a lot of the work by Phil Hine, Austin Osman Spare, Alister Crowley, Dr John Dee along with others.

I have found a close association between the works of Dee, Crowley, Spare and Hine and the main contributing factor of this association is infact the Necronomicon proper.

I have (in the past) studied Satanic rituals, and many of the demons that are associated with all forms of magick.

I have studied Necromancy, Aeromancy, Pyromancy, Geomancy and some alchemy.

I have taken a lot of time in my life (when one would usually be out with friends at pubs and clubs) to study this myriad of subjects. I have also taken some hardy dedication to the path of Chaos Magick, and the art of using sigil magick and willpower to achieve your goals. I am very competent at astral projection and you will find that there are a great many vampyr that prefer to live upon the astral realms.

Many have said that Astral Projection is merely the art of detaching yourself from your own thoughts and delving into your inner mind. I do not believe this as I believe that this is what meditation is for.

In my experience, I have found that if Astral Projection is indeed just digging inside yourself, then we all must dig inside the same person as I have met up with a great many others (and they have confirmed the meet outside of the astral realms).

So now you have some idea of what I have studied.

What do I do with my knowledge????

Mostly I do what i like. I do not believe in the three fold lore (power of 3 times 3) and have few morals or ethics when it comes to my work.

I have been known to release things that shouldn't be released just to serve my own ends, yet I have also been known to breath life into things that should have died.

In short...I am (what some would say) a shadow warlock...a user of the various magickal arts to attempt to maintain a balance within myself and without. Recently I have done a lot of light work, and now it is time to balance it out with some darker work.

When it comes to Vampyric Magick.....anyone who knows of this magick, will know that it is possible (with the correct ritual) to prevent the bloodlust that so many vampyr feel. It is also possible to completely remove this lust for blood and replace it with a different kind of lust. The lust for energy.

Many Psi vamps will admit that their blood lust is not as bad as sanguinarians due to the fact that they feed on the energy that every sopul gives out and that they can do it with a mere glance into a persons eyes or soul. I know this to be true as I have myself performed this ritual many times. And for those who doubt.....the ritual is known as "Acrinatus Nerophite"

I know that the words probably don't make any sense to many, and they are not latin. They are actually in the Ancient Toungue of the Vampyr that our kind forgot long ago. I am one of the lucky few (there are actually a fair amount of others who know the language, or at least some of it) who has knowledge of some of this language. Some would say it's a cross between latin, sumerian and demotic.

When it comes to languages I have studies Ancient Egyptian, Sumerian and Assyrian. I am not too fond of assyrian though. I have studied (to the best of my ability) the ancient language of vampyr and have even spoken some latin (only really when studying satanism though).

So as you can see, i do not just babble shite and do have the knowledge to back my statements up. There are many other witches and users of Magick that would see things here that they would have to say is true because they know it, and i believe that no two will say that the same two things are right either.

If I do meet anyone who can say that my entire statement rings true (obviously apart from queenlilith as she is a little biased, even though she puts me right if i am wrong and vice versa) then I will be happy to converse with them some more.

Stabb, i hope that puts you in your place and satisfies your curiosity. Beware though as curiosity has killed many cats.

M

Ah yes, your own forum is offline at present, I recall.

I am certain that you do indeed make an excellent job of regurgitating such esoteric knowledges. And I have no trouble understanding what it is that you are writing- this is not my criticism.

Lovecraft and the Necronomicon are contentious subjects, often leading to strong disagreements here on VR, so I'll sideline that one for the moment.

Not many call to discuss the men behind Chaotic expression, so I ask you then- how do you find that the relationship between Spare and Crowley developed into the modern concepts which we enjoy today?

And in all your study, would it be reproachful of me ask about the sigilisation of meaning, in preperation for it to produce it's magic?

I'd also like to note that indeed, against these wide ranging subjects, my own knowledge appears as a pale comparison.

Now, energy vampirism has piqued my curiousity again (let us hope that it does not kill me, as you alluded to in private message).

Though no expert in terms of experience, there's still a fair bit I've learned myself on this subject, so perhaps we can meet in the middle somewhere on it.

I never knew energy exchange had a name. I always had trouble defining it so well. What do those words mean, if I may be so bold as to ask?

And you are correct, in that it does make no sense to me, but then, I've not had the time spent which you have, so I'd appreciate the free lesson.

I'm also sorry that I'm stuck on English with a smattering of Latin, so I suppose that I'm at a disadvantage there also.

But I do see what you are babbling now, so very clearly. And I admit, I am intrigued, since it's one of the most amusing posts I've read in some time, thank you. I'm even failing to find fault with some of what you have said being true.

However, feeling as though I'm in my place is the cinch, you see, because, in summary, you are telling me that you are a ruthless fighter, out for himself and without care for the harm which you intend to cause, with the illusionary mask of great and secret knowledge, both powerful and alluring.

Can I really fail to rise to the challenge, since such an attitude is not only reckless, but dangerous, not only to yourself, but others around you?

Thanks for your response, and luckily i do not think you are a cat so you should be safe lol.

Your first question "Not many call to discuss the men behind Chaotic expression, so I ask you then- how do you find that the relationship between Spare and Crowley developed into the modern concepts which we enjoy today?"

This is probably due to mis-interpretation. As the books of osman spare and crowley have been written and re-written, quoted and mis-quoted, you get what i call the chinese whisper syndrome. I believe that if everyone referred straight to the sources then they may well be better off for it, then again, sometimes people hear/see what they want to.

Your sencond Question..."And in all your study, would it be reproachful of me ask about the sigilisation of meaning, in preperation for it to produce it's magic?"

Well the way i do it is to simply write the effect i desire, then I cross out repeated letters and are left with a barebone structure to combine together in whatever sigil i would like. For example...."HEAL THIS CAT" would become "HEALTISC" from there i would combine the letters and create a sigil that would maybe resemble a bind rune (nordic runic magick). Sorry for using such a simple explanation, but there's the dead cat for ya LOL.

Your next question....."I never knew energy exchange had a name. I always had trouble defining it so well. What do those words mean, if I may be so bold as to ask?"

Well, firstly it is not as simple as energy exchange or energy transferrance, it is actually a ritual that would enable a blood lustful vampyr to use energey trasferrance as a substitute for the blood and with a lot less need to feed. Those that use this method never need to feed on blood (although some still do as a matter of ritual, taste or pleasure). The words "Acrinatus Nerophite" is the name of the ritual. It means "To deprive one of his need". Quite why it was called that I am not too sure.

I also think you misunderstand me, I do not mean to be interpreted as a ruthless fighter, but more of a survivor who is willing to use whatever he needs to and whatever he can in order to survive in this ruthless world.

I think maybe i used the wrong words, and am always being told that I need to be more careful not only of what I say, but also the way i say it. I can come across arrogant and unrelenting.

Hope this helps.

M

thats a link with a lot of inflo

I have not practiced, although I would be interested. Thank you for the information.

necromancy seems to work best for me

it is the mere fact that you listed types of magic that you practice that some of the member did not know about or how it is used that had brought up the questions to you to explain your ways. I read all the posts and found genuine interest and instead of taking that as an opportunity to teach something to someone you took it a you being picked on I am sorry but that does make you look like you don't know what you are talking about rather then giving some simple explanations that would have given us a better idea of what you were talking about.

If u do Chaos magick, u better cover yer butt...

I find those of a vampiric nature tend to have a lot of luck with magics involving mortals dreams. I myself have been able to influence people's dreams from many miles away.

My friend taught me how to focus energies into a mind and cause dreams... it's more of a mental practice than actual magic though.

question ...why do u want to influence other ppls dreams

Stabb

Thanks for the response, i think i may have misunderstood the question.

In my opinion crowley was attempting to state that the power is within and not in worldly items such as incense, besoms, cauldrons etc etc, as whas spare. Their associations with sexual magicks were very close although crowley thought that sex with people and beasts would make his work stronger where as spare tended to perform sexual acts alone to empower his workings.

I find that there are many people that use sexual magicks (in one way or another) believe that the works of Spare and Crowley may have contributed to this.

As for the ritual, I really do not know how to answer the question you have asked apart from explaining in detail exactly what the ritual is and what it entails and what it's all about. I have attempted to explain what i can. I must apologise for this, I must be honest and say that when I have practised this ritual, i have not even myself fully understood it's workings and resonings, but the fact that it works well is enough for me to perform it on rare occasions.

The main reason for not being able to understand the ritual fully is due to the fact that I have not yet completely finished my research into the language in which all of the explanatory notes are written, and so find it difficult sometimes even to cast. I have sought much assistance in this, and have found little reward for my efforts. It is currently something that I am not pressing on with in my research and work, but when I do pick it up again i will try and work out some more.

I realise that many will think it reckless and stupid to cast a spell that i do not fully understand, but in honesty it was first cast to see if i could understand it's inner workings. Unfortunately the spell itself is quite difficult to interpret in the physical sense.

M

Stabb

In reference to your question about my methods, i did state that once i have crossed out the letter that are duplictated i would then create a form of bind rune. I then send magickal energies in their raw form through the bind rune i have created and concentrate on the desired effect. I find that material items are not necessary during magick as long as you have the belief in yourself and willpower required to do the spell in hand. Please know that Austin Spare used a similar method, but I believe that he committed sexual acts while concentrating on the bind rune he created to make his will manifest. I believe that he found his strongest force of will through extreme pleasure (he was after all a drug taker and alcoholic....neither of which I am).

M

kytryn

I wondered why you think i should cover my butt when working with chaos magicks. Do you for some reason believe that they are evil magicks?

M

well im learing to read vampire cards, there very tricky and sometimes i do magic with blood but not often

You are quite welcome, let me know if I may be of any help to you.

personaly i do not worship gods and goddesses or worship nothing at all it has been my understandin to walk with them as they are with you on equal levels and they work through you every bit as mutch as you work through them that is why me isis and anubus chose each other no one pointed a finger and said now we just work well together

menerfecious: in response to your post about the energy within and not within the physical workings, i would have to agree with you.

the physical items do indeed carry power as they are used as correspondances upon which to focus to mind to bring about a desired result. so it could be said that the energy comes from within. i prefer to think that it is the energy within that ignites the magick of correspondance and the item that is being used in a spell.

in terms of vampiric magick, i could only say that each vampire casts magick as they are familiar with. it's not 'vampiric' in any shape other than the fact that a vampire is the one casting the spell.

true, it doesn't have to be any certain kind of magic for anyone to use, just whatever you choose.

So what you are saying is that it is not a magick that is only for vampyr, it's called vampyric magick because they use it.

That is interesting as some of the rituals I have researched recently (even today one has caught my eye) would be classed by some as necromantic. As I have myself worked with necromantic magicks in the past, i have found that some of the magick which I have been told would be called vampytric magick (which is the main reason for me stating that it is vampyric magick) are actually just magickal rituals and spells that a vampyr is more likely to use.

I understand now some of the anomilies I have been finding and apologise for my arrogance.

Thankyou for teaching me this, I appreciate it very much.

M

If your going to perform a negative spell just remember the 3 fold law..The wiccan community truly believe in Harm ye none, and the 3 fold law.. Just remember what you put out there may come back to you 3 times....Becareful....

The Three Fold Lore...OMG LMARO....yeah if you are a wiccan then you will most probably believe in it. However, as I am not a wiccan, I most certainly do NOT believe in it. I mean according to the lore of 3 you get back 3 times what you give out, now if you help people, then where are the three people to help you when you need it most? Interesting to say the least.

Some wiccans say that it's only if you do evil, but I say how can the mystical forces work out what is evil and what isn't, and what if you do an evil spell for good.

I have done all sorts of spells both good and evil and have never had any backlash from any of them. I guess it's all to do with belief. If you believe something enough, then it will manifest.

M

I've never really thought of Astral or Chaos Magicks to be "vampyre magicks". That's an interesting point of view though!

(Keep in mind: You don't have to be a vampyre in order to astral travel *smile*)

Well and you really don't have to be wiccan to believe in karma.....I guess I'm just a firm believer in karma...if your intent is to do someone harm and wish bad will on them.. it will soon enough catch up to you.. it may not be right now it could take up to 3 years..*shrugs* My 2 cents for what it's worth...And yes you may have not seen any bad results as of yet....Who says you won't later???

You have researched well STABB, i take my hat off to you.

Firewolf, if that is what you believe then it's up to you. I am not knocking you for your belief, but I am pretty sure that I won't have any consequences to what actions I have taken in magick. I have done a great many bad things in the past (and I have been practising magick for quite some time now...i first practised at 8 and am now 32). I think something may have caught up with me by now, no matter how elusive I try to be.

No, I do not believe in Karma, Fate, Destiny or the Three Fold Lore. I have many reasons for not believing in any of these, and it hold firm to my belief.

M

I know nothing of Vampire Magicks.

Enigma, your response was very enlightening, though. You appear to be very well read and versed.

there seems to be a lot of contradiction in some of these posts. but then thats what happens when you don't read your previous posts.

Stabb i really see no relavence in the fact that menerfecious and i are partners ask him if i agree to everything he has written in this or any other forum, if i think he's full of shit i tell him it is after all my job as his fiancee so quite frankly you shouldn't bring that to the forefront i mean if i was to say something like " well you're only picking on the newer guy because you have friends on the admin staff to protect you " you would not like it would you but there you have the truth don't you!!!

I have found this post to be quite entertaining, to say the least. Onto the question: I am not a vampire nor do I practice forms of magick yet. I plan on learning them.

I came out of curiousoty, and man all I can say is that the beginning of this thread is all over the place... but I did enjoy the redponces of Stabb and the conversations that came into play, and I will leave here with more questions than I have answers to..... but isn't that the way?

To make one question and research? If this is true than I commend you on a job well done!

No disrespect, Menerfectious, but just because you haven't seen any negative results in your workings does not mean it won't happen...When you say such things that tells me your counting your chickens before they hatch sir.....Never say never, and just because you don't believe in certain things does not mean it wont come to fruition....Age does not mean anything either....Yes it's true there are certain forces you shouldn't mess with.. if you truly believe you will not reap what you sow, that is not my place to try to convince you.. You will have to learn the true lessons for yourself....Again just my thoughts...

Stabb: since you do not know me i will forgive your ignorant rantings and your use of anothers posting to slur the name of others you do seem to think you are better than some well let me inform you you are surely not.

please refrain from using petty euphamisms as they have little or no effect on me thank you very kindly.
mim

Firewolf, maybe so, but i have my own beliefs as do you.

I believe that the three fold lore was put in place to teach.....you believe it is an actual lore.

Our opinions differ somewhat, and there i think we should leave it.

Please do not think i mean to disrespect you as i sincerely do not.

The good thing about a forum is that many disagree on a subject, and many agree on the same subject.

If the world were filled with people who always agreed with eachother, what a bland world it would be.

Regards

M

Stabb, in that case, think of me what you will....i really do not care. I am completely self taught and what i research is my business.

You must have been taught by someone to state that you are educated. And therein lies the problem, had you researched this yourself, you may have been able to offer an unbiased opinion, but as you have been taught by someone, i feel you have a biased opinion. It is more of your mentor's words, and not so many of your own.

M

menerfecious,

For someone who cares so little, you appear ready to make such a fight of reducing this from an intellectual discussion. Rather, you are avoidant and stuck in a superiority complex, which leads me to view your words as coming from a deluded sycophant.

And you have quite clearly told of what you claim to have researched, but have shown very little depth of understanding of even the most basic concepts.

And again, as your partner and yourself have done several times within this one thread, you rush to assumptions, in that I have a 'teacher' of my own and that somehow, I am incapable of providing my own thoughts and understanding on this topic.

This link is a member article of my own, written some time ago.

Perhaps you seek vailidity of your ideas- but I cannot yet see that they have any value beyond the usual rote of semi-fictional and muddled entertainments.

If I where to have any kind of magic abilities and those would be feeling if the person is good or bad or seeing the past or future. Some of my friends say that they get a strong vib from my art picures I do or seen that image before somewhere else. I really dont know what they are talking about, and I've never seen such images except from my own head. I just do as I want to draw. But I've do noticed that when my energy is at its peak that is when my art work becomes more greater in image from my own hands.

Eldar, as I listed in my response, Chaos magicks is one form.

Velvetrose, magick is not restriced to anyone or any creature.perhaps I did not word my response properly, sorry.

ive recently got into the wiccan path,but the witchcraft side i haven,t yet begun,want more knowledge before i begin.

Ahhh That's where you are wrong.. again Sir Menerfecious.....I believe in both... A teaching tool and something that really is common sense.....You don't have to be wiccan to believe in the 3 fold law.. and I saw law because it is what it is... Simple.... not lore....Lore is another way to say.. fairytale....It has been a proven fact that things do come back to you... it can come within the 3's or perhaps in 4's.....Karma is very real whether you believe it or not Sir....Again, you might see bad results within this year.. who knows.....Karma can come in many different forms... You might lose a job, you might have money issues, perhaps bad health.....Now I don't wish this on anyone... but Sir.. Everything has a balance.... if you continue to put bad things or bad energy out there towards a friend or foe.. your most likely going to pay the price somewhere....Again "Balance" Menerfecious.......

And to my friend, Miss Queenie... You can lead a horse to water my friend.. but you can't make them drink.....He will have to learn the lesson the hard way.....Men can be stubborn, and they hate it when we are right....We have a 6th sense that is a natural magic... A power they wish to have.. therefore we just sit back and let them make their mistakes...No disrespect to the males on this website.. Just a known fact....*smiles*

Has anyone thought that menerfecious might be onto something? I honestly think that he is right here.

Stabb

Well daer sir, it seems as though you yourself may well have some sort of superiority complex. As for me assuming anything, If i said that if being educated in any subject meant that I had researched it, i do believe that you would also think that someone had indeed taught me. I find that your comments seem to be rather brash and brazen and that you yourself seem to find a way of turning this thread into some form of arguement. Unfortunately I am not prepared to lower myself to that level.

I understand what i feel i need to understand, and I am pretty sure that I know my own mind. I do not assume to know your mind, and nor would i want to.

On that note I close this discussion with you, and should you feel it necessary to attempt to continue the debate then it merely proves that you are the one who cannot let go of a subject. We all have differing opinions and I do believe that I have answered your questions to the very best of my ability. The fact that you cannot understand that fills me with sorrow for your inability to understand simple words.

M

Firewolf, I agree that you have your beliefs and that you stick firmly to them, I also have my own beliefs and stick firmly to them. You have good reason to believe in Karma and The Three Fold Lore (or law as you state). I personally just do not understand how I have done so many bad things in the past and; due to the fact that for every bad thing I do, i balance myself out with good; do not seem to suffer any ill consequences as a result.

I am a neutral warlock working with astral magicks and chaos magicks. Chaos magicks are (in their very nature) completely neutral and as random as magick can ever be. It is not an easy task, therefore, to attribute any law (or lore) to them. Thus I do not have any need to attribute any laws to my magickal workings.

I do not wish to offend you, and have to say that I am enjoying this particular part of my thread immensly.

Please feel free to reply with your views and opinions at any time, i welcome your input.

Blessings

M

Eldar,

I would like to thank you for your comments, but i must state that everyone has their own beliefs and their own system when working with magick. I state knowledge from my own opinions, and others in the forum state their opinions.

I have been known to be wrong in the past (nobody can be right about everything) but i will usually attempt to apologise if i am proven to be wrong.

With such a delicate subject, it is very difficult to prove who is wrong or right in any given matter as magick is firmly based on personal beliefs.

Therefore, in your opinion I am indeed right and have some very valid points, but in the opinion of others, i may well be wrong.

Hopefully you understand what it is that I am trying to say.

Blessings

M

Stabb: "And again, as your partner and yourself have done several times within this one thread, you rush to assumptions, in that I have a 'teacher' of my own and that somehow, I am incapable of providing my own thoughts and understanding on this topic."

As i said in one of my former posts my opinions differ from those of menerfecious'!! You obviously have a very severe sight problem and i suggest you see an optometrist at your local hospital.

I really see no relevance of you associating my beliefs to those of my fiancee since we both traverse VERY different magickal paths, we may use some of the same magicks but in very different ways and i for one am not willing to share knowledge with such a petty creature as yourself.

Men like you make my blood boil you are IGNORANT and try FORCING your opinion on others if they think differently to you if i didn't know better i would think you were a complete fool, but you are obviously not so try READING it may help you just a little bit!!

lol firewolf don't i know it llf i have been trying for years hin as i say but you are right men are stubborn and need good women to trey to guide them (not that i have much luck but i try llf)

Call me crazy..and some do..but is this not a place to learn and ask questions..not debate who is right and wrong about magic or beliefs.Isn't that why there are so many wars throughtout history and now.Nobody is right or wrong here..it seems some have forgotten this. I realize everyone is entitled to their opinion, but do we have to belittle people who MIGHT think differently.This thread has become a battle of the egos and I am quite disappointed.

Dear, Nocturnis
I do not believe that anyone is fighting.. Just stating our feelings on a subject.....I have not hurled one insult at Menerfecious, nor has he at me.....We just agree to disagree.. it is a debate however.. and a debate of different minds.. I will not stoop as low as to flame or insult him , I respect him and his views... I may not agree with it... but I respect it all the same....

My dearest Menerfecious.. You seem to be stuck on the.. "How come I haven't seen any bad results thing" Karma comes in any form as I once explained...Call it what you want.. karma.... or give it some sort of pet name if you so desire....Again just because you haven't seen it yet.. does not mean it wont happen.....I can try to explain it time and time again...But your missing my point entirely sir....

Very interesting and a lot of passion I practice chaos magick … never heard it called vampire magick …. Except some wonderful games I play … still everything has a starting place and I would love to read more of your self made craft … can you place some stuff in your profile.

menerfecious,

The limits of your capability to debate this subject are clear to anyone who takes the time to read this thread in its entirety.


QueenLilith,

I only said that you have both rushed to assume a great deal about me, not that you didn't have any different opinions.

Frankly, I find your tone reaching beyond the reasonable, since I am neither blind, nor ignorant.

I suggest to you both, to try starting a new thread, with a less offensive manner.