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I was just discussing this with my Girlfriend last night on msn. Is it possible that the Myth of the "Ghost" is a little off? I believe Spirits DO exist, only not when one dies, but when one isn't born yet. I believe that before you are thrown on Earth, your Spirit floats around on Earth for Centuries. I think that Billions upon Billions of Spirits landed on this Planet since the dawn of time, and are now one by one being put into bodies by God. I also believe that when all the Spirits are gone, the Earth will die out.



What do you think?

Perhaps. But how do you explain the numerous occasions were people reported being visited by loved ones. I have been visited by my dad several times.

It could just be your Guardian Angel, it doesn't have to be someone you know. I don't think there could -possibly- be Heaven and Hell AND Ghosts after you die. Something doesn't fit there.

I can see where you're coming from

How about that spirits roam the earth all the time and only live in solid bodies from time to time?

That way when the body gives up the spirit is free to roam around or find another body somewhere.

When the spirit really misses its old body for whatever reason it simply doesn't feel like getting a new one - and you end up with a ghost

Maybe sometimes the spirit can leave a body when it is simply resting - that would explain a lot of out-of-body experiences and dopplegangers too.

I disagree with you Artie. I believe in Heaven and Hell. I believe that that's where people go when they die. I think that all the Spirits were put on Earth from the start of time, then they are put into bodies....then they go to Heaven and Hell until all the Spirits are there. Then the Earth dies out and the Cycle begins all over again.


There is -always- a Start and End to anything in Life. So the Theory of Ghosts after Death doesn't make much sense and goes against that Theory.

first of all: hell here i come, YAY! ^^

second of all: Spirits are numerous things and peoples. Even trees, trains and ships have spirits. So a ghost is not just a person, but it can also be a boat, a train aso. Everything that have been recorded in history can become a spirit recording. It is like a 3d-movie, but you can actually TALK with the people.

A Spirit is a Soul. Trains do not have Souls. So I disagree with that.

I think it could be a matter of both. Undead and unborn can both be in spirit form at some point.

Then how do you explain the flying Dutchman? Or why can ghosts have clothes, or wear chains? chains, clothes or guns dont have a soul, but yet when a person shows himself, he is wearing clothes.

Also, another cool thing i have seen on Youtube, called The Ghost Car.

Watch that, and then explain to me what is happening there.

I agree partly with the person above. Everything living has a spirit. Trees, animals, people etc etc. There are also spirits from other places, worlds if you like, so-called ET's and whatnot.

I draw the line at inanimate, man made objects having their own "spirit". It is possible to infuse these things with a spirit, but they don't have one naturally.

I also have to disagree with you Vampirika that there is a finite number of spirits in the world/universe (leaving aside the whole "God" issue that you brought up). This is because one of my own personal beliefs is in reincarnation. Therefore, a spirit may incarnate a number of times in order to fully experience the material world, before ascending to the next, where they will do the same thing.

LOL! Youtube won't show you any real Ghosts. >.>


And as for the Clothes, it can be part of your Soul. Part of something you are. But just a straight-out tree or train doesn't have a Soul, so it can't really be a Ghost, right?

Once again part of your own beliefs and that's fine! Am neither going to argue with you on that nor try to sway you to my point of view.

Am curious however, what do you believe happens to the material world when all the spirits have done their thing on it?

I believe a spirit leaves a body when the person passes on. When this happens the spirit remains and watches over loved ones.

I can't think of any reason why spirits would just float round waiting for a body.

Seems such a waste to me.....I can see no purpose in such a thing.

If that's what you believe then so be it.

I can only say that it seems a bit 'way out' for me.

I don't want to stray from the thread but consider....if there was no reincarnation what about.....Justice ?....what about all of the people who have past life memories ?

I really don't think it's possible to have "past life memories". People just believe and get fooled into things such as these so easily. But I really don't believe in that.

So if a child is born in the 3rd world, knows only misery and pain for the ten years it lives.........

And a child born into material world, with access to the best healthcare, education, houseing etc......

Justice means what ?

It's not about Justice, it's about Souls and pure Logic. In my opinion, the Earth or anything beyond it has no Justice at all. The Heavens are above Justice anyways...that's what I think.

if you are so set in your beliefs and closed minded, why start the discussion in the first place? i might just as well say that we all must have to become ghosts because there is no heaven or hell. that's just an opinion - you can't say that something must be so purely on the basis of your own personal belief.

besides, belief in heaven and hell does not exclude the concept of ghosts. our bodies can reproduce, so why can't our souls? maybe your soul splits up when you die - all the really virtuous parts of you go to heaven, all the really bad parts of you go to hell, and anything in between just lingers on earth, waiting for closure.

That's the thing....with what you say I can find no logic.

Still, as I have said...your beliefs are yours.

I am discussing like everyone else, nothing more. Keep your insults to yourself please, or to your Walls if you have nowhere else to show your anger and immaturity.

As for my beliefs, yes I have strong ones. But I'm not forcing them on anyone.


But to get back on topic again, I don't think Spirits can reproduce. That again, makes little sense to me.

Please reread what I have written....there is no insult.

but that's just it - you aren't discussing at all - you are contradicting. i did not mean to insult - only to point out that if your mind is not open to concepts other than your own, and your mind is made up, then it is really pointless to pretend to discuss. what will you gain? if you dismiss out of hand anything not already in your belief system how can you ever learn anything?

Well thank you for your opinion on me Karn, but this Topic isn't about me. If you have problems with the way I think or am, please take it to the Inboxes.

Now once again, back on Topic.


What do you guys think about Animal Spirits?

sorry - i didnt mean to get at you personally - only your attitude. and i really wouldn't bother if i didn't think it worth it. i'm just trying to get you to see that by dismissing everything so easily, you are missing out on an opportunity.

don't take it personally

I don't dismiss anything....ever. I always gain something from anyone and anything. If I don't tell you straight on that I agree with you and exactly what I agree on, it doesn't mean that I disagree with you completely.

okay - fair enough. now i believe in animal spirits - and i have seen ghost animals. do you believe there can be animal ghosts? i understand christians don't believe animals have souls, so don't go to heaven or hell.

I agree with Carvall their are lots of people out their who have past life memories and i know that everyone of them could not just be crazy so their has to be something to that, and if you can remember past lives then that means that their has to be reincarnation...

I believe in Animal Spirits. I believe in any Spirit that actually have a Soul. Do trees have Souls?

i'm the wrong person to ask on that - i'm a shaman, so i believe all things have souls - trees, rocks, rivers - everything.

While I believe in reincarnation, I think that this idea is refreshing, Master V (:P). It's always interesting when someone comes out with a different way of looking at something.

Now, there are some people that do, in fact, believe there are spirits walking about that have never been alive. Some think that these spirits are here to guide and protect. They will never inhabit a human form. I know that this is different from what you are saying, V, but I just wanted to point out the similarity in spirits coming before death.

This is something that I personally believe. I believe that there are spirits that were never meant to live. I don't, however, believe that there are spirits waiting to live. Well, not as you do. As I mentioned earlier, I believe in reincarnation. So I do believe that there are souls waiting to be reborn. I don't think they take on ghost-like forms and wander around the earth until it's their turn though. I believe there is a...lol...rest stop along the way. Limbo, if you will.

Ghosts... I very much believe in ghosts. Ghosts are accidents...or perhaps even intentional occurences. If something happens suddenly, a murder or accident of some sort, that could produce a ghost. If someone dies, but they feel as though they can't leave for some reason, that could produce a ghost. A ghost to me is one of two things. It's either a trapped soul--trapped by the suddeness of their death or their desire to remain, or it's a shadow of someone--an impression left behind by their energy.

Now, as for objects having souls. No. I feel that natural objects--trees, grass, clouds, etc--have energy, not souls. Man-made objects may possess an imprint of their creator's or owner's energy, but not an energy of their own.

Just my two cents. :)

Vampirika - your idea is intriguing. one argument many people have against reincarnation is the fact that there are many more people alive today than say five thousand years ago. so where did so many souls come from? christians say that god creates our souls, but when? at birth, at conception, or maybe at the beginning of time.

Wow Theta, that was awesome. I agree with a lot of what you had said. And thanks Karn.



I think Souls were all put on Earth since the start of time, as I had stated earlier. I think God just created everything over night...lol. Then he's just watching over us, knowing the outcome of everything..of course.

So it's like there are thousands and millions of spirits all throughout the Earth, and at the appropriate time, a higher being gives them physical form, then they die, and restart the cycle? Or do they go to heaven/hell?
if they move on, does the world end when there are no spirits left?

Yes. I think the World will end when all the Spirits are gone. It only fits like that in my head. I don't think the world could end with Ghosts being on it forever after Death...and everything has an end.

I have a question for you, Master V. How will the world end according to your theory?

What do you mean how? Well hmmmm...I think eventually our Sun will burn out and our Moon would fall on us...lol.

So this is something that happens over and over? Or is this a one time thing?

I believe there was another Earth before this Earth...in place of this Earth. Which is a reason why I don't agree with the Big Bang theory. So yes, I think the World will be reborn someday again and we will begin all over again.


Speaking of the Big Bang, what do you guys think about that Theory? Could it be true?

that's really another topic - but current theory is that it is cyclic - it comes full circle and then begins again.

V, so if the world is destroyed and reborn, over and over again, what happens to the spirits on it?

hum ive been reading all of this and i was born in to believing heaven and hell and animals have spirits thou.. i will have to ask the paster at the church i use to go to what his opinion is

i had never heard the story about spirits alive before death thou..

also i dont believe in reincarnation.

I believe that is how reincarnation is....you die and your spirit floats around waiting to be born again

Like a kind of Spirit ground hog day ?

Just to through in my to cents their are spirits all around us and i think you have made some good points vamp but i believe that ghost can come to you because the ghost of my long dead nanna has helped me through alot i have often spoken to her and have been visited by her also. I also in my opion dont think the the world will end the way you are talking about their is just to many theories on this it may never happen think about how they had predicted it to end so many times before and it never came true.

I agree with eternaldarkness1.

I believe in reincarnation so I could see how your thought would be true..... but I don't think any of them are fresh souls.....

To answer Drakontion, and to re-state this again. I think Spirits are put on Earth since the start of time. One by one they inhabit bodies, then leave them. Then when the Spirits leave their bodies they go to "Heaven" or "Hell". After all of the Spirits are gone from the Planet and are all collected up in those two...worlds so to speak, the World dies out. Then a new World is reborn and those Spirits come back from the Heavens to Earth to repeat the whole process again.

ok master v have you ever heard of this story of a special waiting place.. i think its called progetory.. i may have the word spelled wrong but thats what i grew up knowing.. were after you die every one is still waiting four jesus to come get them..

Yes I have. I think that's something what I'm talking about. Though I think that place doesn't only exist in Heaven, but in Hell too.

well good a least i no something.. and but i dont no if there was for hell to.. i would have to ask some of my elders if that part was left out..

I doubt anyone would tell you much about Hell, unless they made it up themselves. As stupid and unfair as it may be, but most Religions and whatnot tend to leave out all Evil from it. -shrugs-

I believe that they are not real, but I believe in spirits as well.

V, if the spirits all go to heaven or hell, then the world dies and is reborn, and the spirits come back, isn't that then a form of reincarnation? Just one that takes aeons to complete instead of lifetimes?

Reincarnation is a Spirit that inhabits Multiple bodies. When the World starts anew, everything starts from the start. So that's technically not reincarnation in my opinion

But isn't that what your spirits are doing in your theory? Inhabiting multiple bodies? It just takes an awful lot of time for them to do it.

Well they will be inhabiting bodies of a new World. A new Era. Maybe a World of it's own purpose, that doesn't even have "bodies" to inhabit so to speak. So no, they will not be inhabiting the same bodies in the same Lifetime, so I don't consider that as reincarnation.

Inhabiting multiple bodies in the same lifetime is not reincarnation.

But what you are talking about does sound like reincarnation to me. Sure there is a "new" world for the spirits to inhabit bodies in, but at the end of the day they are still inhabiting other bodies. Same spirit, new body. That sounds like reincarnation...

i know spirits exsit cuz my dad died bout 11years ago and i still see him in my dreams and on the anniver. of the day he died and i can hear him talkin to me before i go to bed at nite...i think that the only time you see a spirit or ghost what ever you want to call them...that means that person effected your life somehow in the past like you cared bout them in your other life times you know what i mean...i hope so cuz i cant really explain it very well lol...

Well, reincarnation can sometimes be defined as the following:

Reincarnation: appearance in new guise: a reappearance of something in a new form

Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

So...:P...yes, it reincarnation. lol

Also, Master V, have you ever heard of Sheol? *In Hebrew, Sheol (שאול, Sh'ol) is the "abode of the dead", the "underworld", "the common grave of humankind" or "pit". In the Hebrew Bible, it is a place beneath the earth, beyond gates, where both the bad and the good, slave and king, pious and wicked must go at the point of death. Sheol is the common destination of both the righteous and the unrighteous dead, as recounted in Ecclesiastes and Job.

It's basically a common stop for everyone in the cycle of life and death and rebirth. This sounds very much like what you seem to believe in...without the separate destinations of Heaven and Hell.

*Information on Sheol was taken directly from Wikipedia.

Um... Small typo. lol

So...:P...it isreincarnation.

*looks sheepish* See what I get for trying to be smart?

Thats an interesting and i think a very good theory on it. I think it might shed a light on sum unanswerd questions, but another thing that makes me wonder is then why do people say that the ghosts they see look like the people who were once there..say if someone moved into a haunted house, and the new owners say they have seen a ghost wandering around the new home and then look up info and find info on the house and find a picture of a lady.man who looks like the ghost they saw, or other documents that have been around that help connect ghosts with there now day hangouts?

hum i have been watching the scifi channel .. the program called tapps.. and they have some stories about ghosts that do were certain cloths and such..

very intersting stuff that show puts out..i dont no whats true but i dont care about all that part its just interesting.. check it out and you will see for your self,,

it could be tru to an certian extent

I think spirits will always walk the earth.

In certain cultures there are what are called manitous, they exist in all things, meaning all things have a spirit. Not sure that I believe in it, but it just proves that this argument has been going on much longer than this particular thread.
As far as reincarnation and past life memories, I'm not sure if that is a true reflection of reincarnation, the power of suggestion, or a cosmic collection of memories that some can tune in too. I believe if there are spirits then some might be dead, some not.

I think that part of that may be true. I read a series of books and in one of the books a guy was serching to find out who he was and it turned out to be that his soul was someone he already saw and watched die in front of him. So there are a lot of things to could be true.

Theshining1 mentioned something. "I don't care if it's true but it's interesting". Some people just like to make up stories of Ghosts and other Paranormal Activities for pure Entertainment. People should consider that too before believing anyone.

Ok paprika... im curious as to what you think hauntings are?

When certain places are haunted by someone who has died there. If you think a soul only goes to heaven or hell... why are they still here?

Cause according to you... the only ghosts that arehere are waiting for a body?

I am extremely skeptic about "Hauntings". I have been to Multiple Places/Houses that are claimed to be "Haunted" and all I ever saw and felt was Cold Wind and Crackling Doors. Until I see a real Ghost, which I could probably swear I won't, I will never believe in them, and with that never believe in Ghosts...especially ones that haunt certain areas.

well you apparently don't see very open to be able to see them...

seem* sorry :P

People shouldn't be "open" to seeing anything Paranormal, because then they just end up fooling themselves and every other stupid person around them. I should be able to see them just like I see my Computer screen. I'm not "open" to seeing it, it's just there. Same thing should happen with anything Super natural.

Very interesting. There are many belief systems that believe that the souls remain on earth and help or hurt others depending on who and what they were or will be in life.

It's difficult to see something that is on a different plane from us.... like we see a computer screen.

You do have to be a bit open to the idea.

Its kind of like seeing an optical Illusion....

some people can stare at it for hours and see nothing. Others can look at it right away and see the illusion...

If people WANT to see Ghosts, they will. I can promise you that. Simply watch a Scary Movie at 1 am in the morning, then go to the Bathroom during a commercial or something....sit down on the toilet and just wait a few minutes. You WILL see or hear something that sounds unusual and call it a "Ghost".

Oh thats a bunch of hootenanny lol

they are freaked out and panicking

That's what I mean to being "open" or WANTING to see or do anything Paranormal. You will probably succeed it in, but it will be nothing but your mind that's doing the Paranormal. If Ghosts or Vampires do exist, one should be able to just spot them randomly on a Sidewalk at least once per their Lifetime.

No no no, that isnt being open to anything... thats being afraid of the unknown and panicking and THINKING you are seeing or hearing something.

To actually be open to it is just a way that you are.

Like I said... they are on a different plane than us... they will not appear as you are walking down the street, but i guarantee they are around you...

I think the two are confused with each other a lot of the time. Spirits are Souls and Ghosts are the dead. So it is very well possible in Vamprikas words they roam the world before they are put on earth. That is if you believe that. As for me I don't really believe in Ghosts either like Vampires or anything else their existance has been thrown way off course because of books. I don't believe people see them at all. As for spirits I believe they are the unborn that roam heaven looking down on others. Sort of like angels, or guardian angels.

If that was the case why would anything choose to be here?

Well Mieta, if you don't want to believe in anything of the Paranormal at all, then why are you here? =p


Nah, Vampires -do- exist. All these things people talk about are around, or most are. These things have too much Detail and Myth to them to just be made up. It's just the way people THINK they are is false, but they do exist.

The undead spirits are here for a reason.

How do you know for certain that they exist?

You see i believe that ghost are the spirits of the dead. this can be explained because spirits or ghost are seen as love ones or other people that were known to people. But part of your theory i find true when we die we stay on earth and after a serton time we are place in a new body and start living again but we wont ever run out of spirits we just keep renewing our selve over time.

so DSR you dont believe in a heaven or hell or whatever?

hum this is still an interesting thread.. look every one. the word sceptic means that a person is un decided what to believe because he/she has never seen a quote real thing like ghosts, vampires and such but are open minded to check it out.. so for the undead spirits i wish i could say i really seen a true whatever it will be.. i no out there is some proff by what people say .. hearsay is hard to sallow to see is the key..

I personally believe that spirits are here both before any new life starts and once a life ends.

I agree with V in that the more you want to experience something, or believe in it (supernatural or otherwise), the more likely it is that it will happen. It is the power of suggestion. If you want so very badly to see a ghost, you will see one. Whether it's an actual ghost or not needs to be verified, however the power of the mind in manifesting what its owner desires and/or fears is well documented.

For example. The Australian Aboriginals believe that a witch doctor has the power to kill you by simply pointing a bone at you and chanting. This is a curse, which worked because the populace believed that they would die when this happened. They believed in it so much, that if they happened to be "pointed the bone" at, they would manifest physical symptoms which would result in their death. They literally scared themselves to death.

Some info re this if you're interested:
http://www.aiprinc.org/aborig.asp
http://www.warriors.egympie.com.au/clevermen.html

Also just so you know, bone pointing is still used in Australia to this day, however with much less success due to the influx of the white men's skepticism and scientific knowledge.
http://www.eniar.org/news/curse.html

actually, i have been playing with an idea that came to me. supposing ghosts are not spirits of the departed, or even spirits at all. look at our computers - complex machines that can emulate personalities - to a limited extent. supposing some form of hyper dense particle could be the centre of a magnetic ball of tiny particles that could become positively or negatively charged. i am talking about what could be loosely described as an electro-magnetic life-form. they could be potentially capable of limited intelligence, but have no real life or experience as we know it - so they are blank. now maybe they can have strong personalities "written" onto them during moments of stress. who we are - our personality, our memories, our feelings etc, are really just forms of information. if this information could be copied and uploaded onto another medium, then you would have a spiritual facsimile.

so maybe ghosts are just poor copies - facsimiles of the departed ones, that have been "recorded" onto these theoretical electromagnetic spheres.

i would like to point out that an EMF meter is a standard piece of kit amongst paranormal investigators simply because there have been anomalous electro-magnetic readings in places that are reputed to be haunted.

any ideas?

Vampirica, I rated your profile a 10 because it deserved a 10. I was fascinated by your ability to think despite your young age. But..........
You tell Kalest that you are skeptical about haunting, then later tell her that she shouldn't be open to the paranormal. Later you tell Mieta that if she isn't open to the paranomal that maybe she doesn't belong her. That seems to be a common theme with you anytime someone disagrees with you and yet it would seem that if they agree in one post the would have to disagree in the next. Please, never lose that ability to question or to doubt, but don't leave yourself no out when you back yourself into a corner. You are impressive, so don't limit yourself.

Wow Drakontion, I liked those links. That is VERY cool. And karn, your Theory is pretty cool too. Nice lil' brain teasers. Thanks! =)


And SF, I will tell you like I told Karn. Thank you for your opinion about me, but this Thread isn't about me. If you like or don't like the way I post here, contact me via Inbox. Dominars can call me out right here and I will answer to any of them. When I make a Thread called "About Vampirika", then everyone will comment me.


I will debate my opinions and thoughts. If people don't like that then please just avoid my Threads. There are plenty of others to Post in.

=)


Oh, and I will also be closing this Thread now. I have gotten some really good responses for this, and I thank you guys for doing so. I will re-post an Updated Version of this Thread soon.

So stay tuned. ^__^