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ok so in a coven, activity is important, it helps the score, show that members are loyal, and helps in the forums.

what are your views on this?

Well, i guess it depends on how much positive energy you want to place in the House or Coven.

And also, the time you have to be online ....

what she said ^

also if you do tend to be on here alot like some of us and are devoted to your coven, then yeah i believe you should spend a lot of time in it helping with the score and such. Everyone needs to cooperate in a team if ya want it to work.

Members don't have to be active to be loyal to a Society.

People do have lives outside of VR, so they can't be active all the time.

Others don't have net access and therefore might be away for an extended period of time.

To be loyal, all you need is to want to be in the Society you are in.

Yeah i agree that people have lives outside of vr and they may not have access to the net which is fair enough, but as a sire dont you get sick of seeing inactive idle members. I know im not a sire but in our coven we have had some members that havent be on since last year!

But it's not the members fault they're still there. If the master was truly bothered by inactivity he'd get rid of those long away members.

yeah but with a busy master and only 1 acm on, and trade masters nowhere to be seen what can you do.

You could simply message the master. Even if he's busy he'd get back to you sooner or later.

I am in a coven that is putting me to sleep with lack of activity,

A journal entry of mine.

Joined The Coven of the Demented Mystical Minds on 13 April, 2008. It looks to be a good group. I hope I fit in. I am a bit strange.

I have also discovered that being ADHD with a type A personality can put me at odds. I am working my way up the members list by gathering favor as fast as I can. Yep, type A+ personality. I sometimes feel like my feet are anchored to the Earth and I am barely dragging along even though every one else sees me moving rapidly.

Favor earned: 1042.539 as of 15:23 May 18, 2008
Favor earned: 1131.299 as of 16:25 May 19, 2008
Favor earned: 1289.879 as of 22:16 May 21, 2008
Favor earned: 1425.848 as of 22:29 May 24, 2008

i will try that. point taken on board.

I think that Covens and Houses are places where you should feel at home, they're like an extended family.
I am lucky to be in the best House on VR, we've got so much daily activity that it's sometimes hard to keep up.
I think it's important to try and adapt to your surroundings instead of letting small things bug you. It's also important to show your support and love of the House as much as you can by contributing to the best of your abilities. There might be a real life out there that is keeping people away from VR but when real life doesn't interfere, it's nice to have a great place to come back to.

This is also what i am trying to say nothing ever happens in th forums! its damn annoying, you cant talk to youself in them.

Maybe you could try messaging your fellow Coven members and motivate them in contributing more to the forums?

I do agree with you virtuous. I have been contributing and working with the only active acm to boost activity. and it doesnt seem to be working.

As nice as it is to be active in your society, you must remember that one can never force it. If you don't care for the society, ask to be traded. The worst anyone can do to you for inactivity is blinding you from a place you didn't want to be anyhow.

The best societies are ones full of people who actually want to be there, contribute, and enjoy each other's company.

Yes thats right it should be enjoyed of course! i love my coven and want the best for it, and the ones ive spoke to in the coven love it too.

I was in one of those in a previous account and it was wonderful. Current coven seems dead from inactivity.

Well said meeper.

Another thing. Posting in the coven forums does not help the coven score, but it makes it more fun to be in a society where you can interact.

Sometimes it seems to me that coven masters are too focused on their rank rather than their members. This is not meant as a critisim at all so please do not feel offended.

Try some encouragement and if that fails try looking at it from a different view and see if there is something that could be none different.

I am not very active in the forum either eventhough I am an ACM but I still help out in anyway I can and I love my coven.

It's important that Covens remember that the actions of their members reflect on the entire Society. It doesn't matter how good your Coven is, if someone acts like an idiot and is rude in public, people will look down upon your society.

I think quality is more important than quantity in this case.

Quantity usually brings about quality.

I don't think that is true. I have seen quality members in a number of Covens. True I have been disappointed with some Covens because of their low standards in choosing members, and really I wish I wasn't so surprised and happy when someone actually says something intelligent...but the quality is there, buried under the quantity.

I think there are different types of quality.

E.g. a low number of members, yet they're intelligent and know of good discussions.

A high number of members with less intelligence, yet the members have fun.

We do have quality, but they lack in activity and quality comes with activity.

I personally don't care what the Covens do in their own private space or how they arrange their pages, but when members come to the forum and post things in the wrong area, post nonsense replies in threads, blah blah blah, that reflects badly on the Coven.

I understand that some people just don't understand the forum policy but some people either are just clueless or don't care. It is the responsibility of the Coven to educate those people, or deal with the shame of having them, or get rid of them.

Higher standards would be much greater on VR. There should be WAY more people roaming free because no Society will stoop low enough to accept them.

There is a massive difference in quality or quantity. If you throw the net large enough, I'm sure you'll find a few good people. The flip side though is that in your search, you would have ended up with quite a number of inactive individuals. It takes lots of fishing and pruning to get a solid number of great core members.

I agree, activity does not describe loyalty, its the desire to be part of the coven, also the activity they do when they are capable to do so, even if its a little, just dropping in to say hello on the forum shows their interest.

I beleive it places to much unnessarry pressure's on members to be active.

Also its not quite clear extactly what were aiming for. There should be competition's of such (I have no idea's at this time) Award's every 6 months?

And not to forget there might be some activity cycles. Due to real life effects - yes, there is something outside the rave - like school, job, private things, whatever ...

So, it's up to the house or coven to accommodate real life effects, too.

In the end, you can only watch out for promising candidates, and hope that they'll work out.
Give them a place they like to be a part of, and be prepared to answer questions ....

Also...

All the talk of "Shame" for members that act up on the public forums is Ridiculous.
Why cant we have a few heated debates were a few angry sarcastic lines get thrown around?

Rules are made to be broken ;)
Let people be people :)

There's a big difference between sarcastic remarks, joking around, and outright breaking of rules.

Are you saying that you want random trash threads all over the place? People flaming each other in the forums and Vamp Box? It's not hard to still be a person but not act like a jackass.

Morrigon, Dont be so biased about it. Very easily, i'm sure, you could give a small forum for the hot headed.

As for the out-right rule breaker's, i wouldnt want that. So i guess thats your domain.

I'm not going to preach on what i think need's changing. This is a great site and community with many common interests.

Abit of rage keeps everyone from edge :)

I agree, like most ive been here a while, i hate it when people flame others, it sucks ass, we're all into the same thing there should be no need for rude comments! I think most of you are missing the point of the post!

Im saying due to the lack of activity in the coven, that it is going down hill members cant be bothered to post in the forum, for what ever reason i dont know! As coven masters/misstress' you want activity, yes? not idle ass members who show there face just to get up levels.
Nothing has happened in my coven for well over a month! and due to the master being busy in life, members think they can slack off.

Maybe the whole Coven and House thing is being taken a little to seriously..

No offence intended ofcourse :)

I think that quality activity is more important for a coven/house. Sure you could over run the coven or house with a bunch of nonsense too. But I think that's a waste. But that's just my thoughts on it. :)

None taken, but when you are involved and enjoying the place you are in then you cant help but take it seriously. its a home away for home, a place i can be me with out worries.

Unfortuantly for me, on another account i was kicked from the Coven (Cant remember its name) for not leveling.

Got kinda pissed about that. Note on my profile, it states MY terms and conditions >.<

I think the site is great as it is. About a forum for drama and flaming. It is not a good idea. If you are in need to flame others to get rid of your rage then I suggest you find alternates. Flamming only makes you look ignorant.

And thats bad. Covens shouldnt be like that.

I meant on public forums...
I wont take this any further due to the disapproval. :)

As have I, Faceless.

No matter, no matter.

I'm quite glad that my current Coven doesn't have those rules about inactivity.

I like my coven we are active and there for each other I guess it depends on what coven you are in and if you have a real problem with yours talk to your coven master see if a coven you want to be involved in is interested in you. They can set up a trade or something so you can end up where you belong.

Faceless, rules are meant to be broken but you have to face the consequencies for that and flamming is not in the site's goals so no thanks.

Now back to the real topic, can't add much considering others have said already my same opinions.

I'd suggest contests for example, usually that increases interest.

I think flaming of members happens in a lot of societies but is carried out privately in message or journals and I don't think there is anyone not guilty of that. Heaven forbid that would ever be in public as it would drive away potential members of the site!

I agree that particapation is important. It brings the coven closer together

A coven is no different than any other organization. The members will be a spectrum of very active to not active. It's no different from the scout troop you were in as a kid, sports teams, clubs in high school, service organizations to which you belong, your church, school PTA, or even your team at work.

It shows that your are loyal to your coven and respect those him them and others from other covens as everyone is treated like whole. No one favors anyone I know I don't so less activity you make in your coven it all depends on how your coven is treated as a whole. Respect is key just remember that!!!!

The Coven I am in is like a second home. We are all very good friends. And our Master realizes that we as well as he, have our own lives to live. So, the issue of inactivity is never a issue. We all just do what we can, when we can.

I think it is also a matter on how you deffine inactivity. Is a person who only post once a week in the coven forum inactive or is the member who posts 3 times in a month?

Our covenmaster trusts his members to do the best we can, accepting that not everyone has equal time to spend online.

I do expect a certain level of activity from new members. If you don't put the time in at the start then how do I know you want to be a member of the crew?

If there are mitigating circumstances then that is fine - no problem.

supporting your coven is important shows that you want to be there as well as being loyal...

Iam very loyal to my coven even tho Iam not much I try to get my favors in as much as I can

If a coven in not active... then the coven is dead....

and if your coven is dead.... there is no reason for it to continue existing....

I guess getting 100% of the Membership of any Society to participate is difficult . If it were my choice, I don't think I would have any of those people around because what is the point of being in a House or Coven if you don't take an interest or even bother joining in.

I like my coven...it has a lot of members, and not all participate, but the ones who do make it a fun place. They've been really friendly and helpful. There is no bullshit drama, either, which I detest. We even have a virtual coffee house and a bar...LOL!

I do believe in activity in your coven but for me I dont feel like I should do it and no one else does everyone should pitch in for the coven.Some members fall short of there duties and loyalties to there coven.Unfortunately I am stuck in purgatory but still will help with favor for the coven .

You got the wrong attitude for Purgatory heh! You are a star 'tho, and yes people do fall short of their elected duties and membership, but then maybe they are just too busy elsewhere.

Two words "common sense". The individual joins a coven for a reason, drama is not a reason.

Perhaps right now people are busy with ending school, and vacations and can't be on as much as before.
We all try to get on as much as we can in my coven, of course there are some who never post but are still members, and some who post a lot..it's like that all over I think.

it's fine if you don't want to be active in your coven and some coven masters don't mind if you are active or not but if you have a coven or house master that wants their members to be active and you're not then you may have a problem. it depends on the society you are in, i guess. if you have to be active and are not the master can blind you and that is no fun.

i think activity in the covens is only respectful to the coven itself. if you're not participating it may look like you don't want to be there

I would like to be alot more active in my coven, but my real life interfers with this. It doesn't mean I'm not loyal, or I'd of left already :)

I think that u should be active within your coven forum. Try to associate with your fellow coven members, since they are your family. U should also try to gain favor and increase your level for your coven

No, but it is the expected cooperation for society life.

I think that members should be slightly active in their coven/house while they are online. They shouldnt sacrifice their real life to get online to go in the coven/house forums though. It is pretty annoying when covens/houses require a certain amount of favor earned in a week or so. Some people dont have enough time to get online often so they wouldnt be able to meet the favor requirements. If the member does get online frequently then he/she should at least try and be active in the coven/house forums

Why be a martyr? If you have to sacrifice anything then you should not be here.

How can you be active in something you find boring and dull?

This is what i was saying at the start! activity is everything.

think about it. favor comes from activity.
putting in the forum you need activity.
ok loyalty touchy subject. But when it comes down to it activity does show loyalty at the end of the day.

Is this not true or am i getting the wrong idea?

If you don't want to be active in your House or Coven then you aren't in the right one. I know many people have been inducted but no-one wants an inactive member or the whole society suffers.

1- as per the vr manual members don't have a choice to join or be forcebly induct it is the choice of the coven/house master to do it or not.

2-as a Coven Master I would NEVER controle, command or force upon others my view in the main forum or anything outside the coven since it is NOT my job/place/authority.

3-What members chose to post in public is their right and I am not their mom to slap their wrist when they post wrong nor will I do it.

4-Within the coven I ASK not command activity. No one is forced, I love it when they do and I reward them upon the level of activity they give. I also use common sens ( if they don't log on or if they are in Iraq or hospital I consider real life first.)

5-I blind if people cross certain lines and I am aware of it. If I do not ear about it and no proof is provided I won't bother. (proof meaning: vampbox history of membersinsutling admins etch, suspended profiles/journal/port)

6-Activity yes is wonderful, but as another Coven Master said: its a website, real life comes first in my book.

As for trade some are traded or even offer to be traded if they so desire so. But some will never be as per their own doing is not worthy of anything but to stay where they are blinded.

There is a saying. "Bring the horse to the water, but you can't force it to drink"

i someone is not active in the coven, and not earning itay favor, then they are dragging it down. a small coven with very active mebers rates igher than a large coven with a lot of inactive members.

I did not make a coven to be on top 3, otherwise I would be in a house doing what I do.

My members can do their normal activities (gives my coven favors) but if they do not wish to post. It is their choice and I will not command them to.

Plus I don't think it is right to punish a member who don't earn favors cause she/he is in the hospital or at war.

I run a coven not a dictature. I follow the vr manual and the TOS and vr policy.

I think inactivity is like a phase. Everyone has moments when they can't be on Vr because of personal issues, work, family etc. Then all comes good again and there is a flurry of activity in the covens. So I would try not to worry so much about inactivity. If it goes on for months on end then you know you have a problem.

Giving incentives to get involved with the coven activity wise. Make sure all your members feel warm and welcome. Are all important aspects of keeping coven's active.

i agree with the above. our coven never force inducts people. if wesee someone w think will be an asset, we ask them to put in a request to be a member with one of our senior recruitment staff.

i think being active is important also, you have to at least spend enough time a week.

alot of people work --there is still some time to be active

I believe that many factors depend on personal motivation as well.

trepidation activity does not equate to loyalty. just because u are active does not mean u are loyal to your coven. U could just be working very hard to level up.

I personally am loyal to my coven. I think we have a great coven, and Cinnamon is a great CM

The extreme passion against forced induction is an old topic. This concept of forced induction was not put into place to make people happy. If you don't like it, you can leave. That's the simple concept. Many people fail to understand how forceful inductions are directly linked to the concept of vampires themselves.

FacelessUnknown, I don't see how I am being biased. You're not reading what I am putting down. Forums for the hot headed are always allowed in Covens, the main forums don't need to bow down for anyone who feels like causing trouble.

If someone is actually feeling rage on VR...That's kind of sad.

If expecting quality from people is taking something too "Seriously" then that speaks a lot about some people's standards on and off this site. I don't think it's asking for too much.

As far as participating, competitions are nice and a good idea. Aside from the fact that people cheat and complain about the results, it does stir things up a bit and make VR more interesting.

I think Oppressed Debauchery should do another experiment ;)

I think there are Covens and Houses to 'fit' everyone.

We all differ in the amount of time we have to spare.

I figure that when you are on do what you can. No one should be expected to do more than what they can. but when you are on you need to do something.

Thats true, it's important to make the effort to know them..

This is me , yes we do have lives outside VR. But activity is important when you are on VR. What pisses me off is when I see a coven member on vr for hours and hours and yet does not post in coven. All we ask is let us know your alive and ok. Dont have to spend 24/7 in coven but when you come online please post something. I also understand those that do not have net access cause for awhile I was one of those. But I did get a message to coven that I had no net access at time that way they didnt wonder where I was and why i wasnt posting or doing anything at all.

Yes it is very imprtant to get to know your coven mates and especially make everyone feel welcome so they dont one day say " Well I dont feel welcome here let me see if I can find one that I will feel welcome in."

I would love to belong to a coven - and I have in the past. What happens to me is that Life gets in the way. I have such a limited amount of time to play on here that I end up not being active enough. Sometimes I get here every day for a week, then I'm not able to get on at all for a month. It's tough to be a part of anything when you're that sporatic!

thats right! Im starting a course tomorrow, for two weeks then hopfully after that ill get a job so i wont have much time. Im also a father, but im going to be on here posting in the coven posting here.

As for me, I try to be online very often to be here for my coven family members in anyway possible...rating,doing the database, and just being here in general for them when they need someone they can trust to talk to. It's not necessarily all about the ratings, if your coven is not close to each other then what good will it do to be in it?

there usually ends up being quite a familial bond in the covens I've belonged to... like real families.

However, not everyone has the ability (or inclination) to spend X amount of time online. If you can't be on as often, usually your brothers and sisters ask only that you notify them at some point that you're not able to spend the time...

I'm very fortunate to be in a coven where I can come and go as my real-time life allows. It's fire season here in Cali...

I hope everyone has a safe and SANE summer.

Yeah they should let some one know indeed you are right! but when you dont have this in a coven it goes to pot eh?

I believe Coven's and House's have a duty to their members to teach them about the VR, Vampires, Occult, ect... It should be a place of learning and sharing ideas of the occult. Points should be awarded for research, not just activity on the VR.

A DUTY to teach about the Occult? I think not.

Vampire Rave is not 'Occult Rave'. You might be interested in it- but that isn't the theme of this site.

The socieities allow for the membership to open up about other sides of them... after all, the site itself is vampire-themed, we can branch out from there in the societies.

I agree that all society masters should have top knowledge of VR... but other than that- definitely no agenda in pushing Occult on people. That's no different than throwing an evangelical agenda. We're all different. Let people be who they are. Never push a teaching.

Very nicely said imagesinwords. Learning should be voluntary, not compulsory.

I know what you said, and I responded to it. Thankfully- that is just your opinion and not a rule here. I surely wouldn't want to be in a society where they tried to force me to learn things I may not want to learn.

I try and encourage my coven to take an interest in history - that is MY thing but I also interweave it with the main thrust of VR

I am not saying the members have to learn, but be given an opportunity to be able to learn. They are forcefully inducted to the House's or Coven's. The Coven Master's should enlighten their members or create an atmosphere of enlightenment.

That is totally different. Basic intelligent is a whole other ball of wax.

When you are talking about religion and spirituality- that should never be forced.

But you can't expect the House/Coven Masters to do all the work, the inductee must want to learn to be able to be taught anything in the first place.

I love LBO and that fact alone makes me want to post in our house forum, the people make it what it is. They are articulate, well versed, funny and creative people that care about one another. We have a thread that you can post in in case you are planning to be gone for awhile whether it be for personal reasons or vacation etc.....so we are kept up to date on members and possible lack of posting.

I think each House/Coven should choose their members with care and bring on others with similar interests or ones they think will mesh well.

We all have a different opinion of enlightenment. The occult may not be what some people consider enlightenment. I study ALL things, I would not try to teach someone of a specific faith that the occult was true enlightenment. That would condescend and devalue their personal belief system.

Cool thing about forced inductions is... members can still feel free to ignore that induction and the whole society if it's not their cup of tea :)

They are in a strange place, if they do not want to understand vampires, magic, occult, ect... After all this is the Vampire Rave, is it not ?

*imagesinwords Edit*

'Vampire Rave', not Magic Rave, not 'Occult Rave'.

A huge population of this membership is here due to their interest in fiction alone.

Thread closed for length.