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Sort of like the levels here it can be imagined that vampires have seniority, and even rank, yet age does not assure position necessary, in some cultures after Age and rank are factored in, Rites of Passage are considered. If a likely position holder never passed a challenge .. they may be dismissed from a leader position because the opposition had meet initiation requirements.

What current Rites of Passage for Vampires , can you imagine to exist, or exist as you you may know?

when are the Rites of Passage initiated?

Straight off the bat i want to say that i mean no harm by what i say and that i am no expert nor do i probally know what im talking about but ill try...

i think that senority would be important to a vampire( ill say "family" since i have no idea what its called) "Family". i only say this because the older they are you would think the more knowledge they would have. as with any " family" the elders most likely know best. give it if they lack the ability to open there minds to change of times things might be different.

some rights of passage maybe there first mistress or leading a "sibling" to somewhere safe.no idea.

again not meant to sound stupid but it does... OH WELL!

No you do not sound stupid. it is your first post as well. A bold choice indeed.

if vampires did exist u would have a leader and then positions below sorta like another other group. And to make it to the next level u would have to prove that u belong there and/or earm that right

i think it depends on the clan like religion, the rite of passage is different in most cases

well I also would think it depends on the Clan / Family and how they do things in their own circle as it were.. yet just because your older does not always mean you have more knowledge of things .. yet majority of such.

Of course vampires have ranks otherwise you would have entire citys slaughtered before anyone knew any better.

The Burial Rite, would any here that elude to or claim to be vampires do it?

i think ranking is of vamps is more like.....
the older a vamp becomes, the more knowledge he or she gains about their culture and past history leading to today...
for the most part....

Moreover, the walls of my castle are broken; the shadows are many, and the wind breathes cold through the broken battlements and casements. I love the shade and the shadow, and would be alone with my thoughts when I may.

So his only Rite of passage was a Hermitage.

From what I have observed in my short time of 10 years as being awakened, an elder is what I consider to be a rite of passage as you say.
One who helps, guides and provides informantion to those who are newly awakened and those who just have questiones.Whether it be vampire or mundane, etc.
I know many who have spent a greater part of their life mentoring and helping others find their way in the vampire community. On line and off line and whatever part of the world they call home.
I would hope someday to have that title, but I have many years to go yet.

there is always a ranking in everything, work, city, country, even in hospitals.

So I am sure within the vampire comunity there is ranks and a certain democratie or certain "seniority"

Rites of Passage. Are aside from age, rank is not obtainable to those that are not "initiated' through some form of bonding ritual.. would the bonding be a Rite Of passage as well (as stated above?) I think so. But if two equal vampires are set on a posistion then there would be secondary determining for sucession.

There are many rites and bonding ceremonies according to tradition. Each house has different rules and traditions, so each vampiric community is unique.

I think that Rites of Passage, as others have mentioned, really only applies to those who are members within established Families, Covens, Clans, and Communities.

The way Michelle Belange explains the Rites of Passage says it best:

Every society has its rites of passage, rituals which acknowledge the crossing over from one state of being to the next.

Within our community, there are quite a few rites of passage to be celebrated. There is the initial acceptance into the community, and after that, there are different levels of knowledge and understanding to be attained within the community. As a member learns and grows, he or she passes through a kind of spiritual childhood to a spiritual adulthood. This transition is important and should be recognized with a rite.

Reference and further reading:

Rites of Passage

well I also would think it depends on the Clan / Family and how they do things in their own circle as it were.. yet just because your older does not always mean you have more knowledge of things .. yet majority of such.

Please take the time to post something that adds to the discussion.

Any more of "It depends"... answers will be deleted.

I imagine that the primary rite of passage would be the "creation" of new vampires. Determining someone to be beloved, or worthy of the gift of potential everlasting life. Considering who you imagine you would want to spend that much time with and then the consequences of that choice.

Another rite would be that of being allowed or taught how to "turn someone". I would not think that it would be something that most would know or even be able to do. Similar to the guides that assist in the religious passages that some beliefs still perform.

I would think that seniority would play a large part of the system, a patriarch as it were, like many others in history. With age in this regards would come much knowledge and intuition. The elder is usually a great mentor.

senority should make a difference. as in all clans, covens, families we all seem to respect our elders as they at most are the wiser.

the elders of any thing in my opinion is usually the wiser of all and they usually choose and pick whom or how the rites of passage is done for said indviduals, just an opinion.

I guess this is all dependent on whether you are speaking of the modern community, folkloric or fictional. Dracula would be fictional so that would depend on the writer. The modern community is very heirarchal. You have inner and outer circles and in some cases you must earn your place into the inner circle by sevice to the group. Could be physical or academic or both. Sometimes it is age and sometimes it is actively known within the "scene." There are a few that follow from one group and their set up is similar and others that are entirely different. If we speak of historical/folkloric then in my opinion it would deal with the tribal group and culture as to all of that. There could be extreme variance in this area. I guess some are very influenced by Underworld. They showed a very structured group of vampires.

i think that all things have a ranking position in the world it is a balance of power and integrity so i cannot see vampires not having the same place in their world horses have a pecking order no matter what a leader of the pack people have presidents, prime ministers etc and other animals if these were not in place then all hell would break loose i think

Very insightful post. To use an analogy, if a scout master is approached by a person that claims to be a scout there are ways to challenge that claim, does the person know the creed? if they do they are likely scout conscious, if not a member of scouts.. to have any actual involvement with activity there would be other things to factor in.

Some rites of passage are universal, and some are local chapter, nothing is more frustrating then when some poser squatter claims to be an experienced squatter, only to bulk under any situations that require experience to resolve. Some rites of passage leave scars, for this very reason.

please understand this may sound like xenophobia, but it is assurance that those that gather have dedicated intent.. not just thrill seeking hangers on.

There is hierarchy in every society even vampire one.. There are rites of passage.. There are also rules to follow and so on.. Just like in normal humans society. If i confused some of you then i am sorry.

I would imagine that seniority would play a part. Then (going by movies) perhaps there would be "levels" such as newly turned, who would then have to learn the rules. They may have to prove how much knowledge they have gained and how trustworthy they are and discreet to be taught new things (such as how to use a new power) before they were given a new rank.

Just guessing.

Great post - I had never really thought about this.

I can imagine there to be "rites of passage" as you say, but cannot really determine in my mind what they could be.
Would it not depend on whether the vampire "community" as such was close-knit or whether there were few vampires spread over a wide area? If the latter, do you not think that they would just leave each other alone and not bother with a status system if they had their own territory?

For a coven though, I can imagine that it would vary greatly depending on the nature of the vampires within the coven. There may be a test of strength, or maybe even a test of emotional trauma to see whether they had truly left their human side behind.

The elders of a clan/Family/Coven usually pick and choose whom they feel can complete task to be allowed to get Rite of Passage to another level of power in their realm.

I would think they choose once they have been most valuable and the ones who show the respect to all Elders Laws I would think then given task to accomplish to prove themselves to be honoured witht the RITE Of PASSAGE as it were. just hypethedical (SP) is all.

well, there are lords, or kings as some may call, that are the leaders of a house or coven, and yes they exist in real life.
there's the elders, which hold much knowledge and are respected by all.
there's the council, which runs the entire community as a whole, sort of like the government.
there's priest of the houses which hold rituals and such.
there's mradu, or warriors, which protect the coven.
there are swans, which offer blood to us and are much respected.

there's so many possitions in the vampyre community, but those are a few to name.

Settling family/coven conflicts could be handed to a new member.

I have heard of a Rite of passage involving obtaining an item from a territory of a rival.

Initiations are more guarded as the rank and involvement of the individual advances, the reason seems to be that new members or mid rank members need to know (from other ranking members) that their leaders can handle routine and specif situations, if any "come around poser" seeks positions of authority they may be challenged in council, accounting for their Rite to position.

Some rites are for solidarity, if we are a collective of thieves say.. and our lair/ club house has stolen property in it, it may be required that anyone invited would need to commit a tribute to the collective, say host a stolen party, then they are now a member and accomplice.

Psivampires post has a very good explanation and link.
Rituals are very important in any form of magic or rites of passage.
In a society of fast food and quick fix rituals’ are often forgotten or shortened.

The skulls for example, one lies naked in a coffin masturbating while telling ones deepest secrets, the secrets are kept incase you break the silence and your darkest truths exposed.
They also steal a skull and have it above there cabinet of secrets.
Erosion of the system would for sure cause it’s end.

Gangs have a wild beating they give you or a task that will send you down for life in prison. Just to join and promotion is by rank and order.

Pagan rites are hugely important and lost by most of the on the bookshelf wicca wanabes.
Sacrifices have turned from man to animal to burnt offerings to candles ….. some might argue the need to perform rituals as they were intended would make stronger magic.

For vampires the first rites is awakening, and acknowledgment of that process.
For the clans you may enter …. You might well be sworn to secrecy or asked to do something guaranteeing your silence.
like thrust yourself upon this blade if your not a believer lol

I still laugh when I hear of the Rites of initiation people will claim to have performed, the way it works is you find a person that professes to be a rank member to some order, then slip a crafted crazy initiation that members do (not really though) and watch the person claim to have done it.

Flushing such people from any group is important, because they are the ones that misrepresent.

Just off the top of my head, I would figure a Rite of Passage would consist of the actual consumption, followed by some type of night-time hunt, if some of the African region-type countries would still do that.

As for a Rite here, I'd think that just the consumption of blood, followed by a test of some kind would be more applicable for any covens here in the U.S.

Writing Rites of passage off as acts of xenophobia (as some do) is sad because culture suffers without the social bonding. Hazing is one example of Faulty Rites of Passage, I consider Snipe Hunts a right of passage, one that teaches the Bag holder that group pranks are out there.

the best thing i can say is it read the

Anita Blake Books
by Laurell K. Hamilton

her book pretty much gives you an idea
on how that system would go.....

they would have to have tests to raise though the ranks. you might want to look at it as a guild. in a guildyou had to complete task set by the guild master. to raise though the ranks

That practice is important to assure that no challenges will be created to the qualifications and dedication to the guild.

not sure about guild … sound too much like a vid game. Lol
leadership is something earned… never given.
A leader with no followers is just a man taking a walk.
One is truly judged in the underworld by his actions and persistence, his work and triumphs. The empire you build and maintain …. Actions speak louder than words.

If was to talk about the rites I am ware off or bleeive exist I think mnay subcultures have from all sorts, but on the question as to what kind fo rites I would consider or think should exist.

Then I say it would have to be about the mind, since about physicla anyone can do it in the sens that i is as to hi someone but it takes a lot of brain to avoid and come out a winner.

So a rite would have to have to force the one seeking a position to show all the skills his or her bain can exercise to come with the best solutions to puzzles of difficult situation his or her clan/society can end up in.

Well from what I've been reading of this post, I've realized a few say "if vampire's did exist..." well they do, and this has been bugging me. Because we are existing, though we are not how we are depicted in films and books, we do exist.
And I'm not sure how others may handle the "rite of passage" type, situations. But around here, it's the most mature and most expierenced above all others.

In most societies senority does rule. Although i am sure there are times that some newbie is brought in and somehow gets put above ones that have been there way longer and i know this will cause problems for most.
The rite of dedication is supposed to be one to make sure the interested party really understands what they are getting involved in and they are supposed to learn until they are deemed ready to full take part.
Most would prefer someone be sort of like a big brother/big sister that is already inside the group to the new party and at the time they are shown as really one that is ready then they have the rite of transformation.

Well said Beltran, should a ranking/senior clan member be compromised or met with their end, there would need to be a set expectancy for the successor . I would imagine rights of passage start with physical, and graduate to mental, some being humiliating as well.

I think any sort of ranking would be based on both the vampire's inherent ability and various Rites of Passage. This may be a bad comparison, but when someone is recruited for organized crime, it's something simple, like being a runner. If they are successful as a runner, they might become a mule. If they are successful as a mule, they might become the muscle, etc. The tests increase in difficulty and responsibility/trust by degrees, and what allows one to move up in the ranks is passing those tests successfully. Usually if someone with less seniority is bumped, it's because they have either out-witted their way there, or killed their way there.

Thats the idea, well stated.

Initiation, and Rites of Passage differ, in that Initiation is prior to being "christened" a member. Rites of Passage, are after the member is "christened".

the jews belive before you become a man you need to go though a rite of passage. i really dont belive vampires have one.