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The following is a passage taken from this article of the Fortean times referring to Count de Saint-Germain.

''The 18th century abounded in romantic riddles – the Man in the Iron Mask, Cagliostro, the Lost Dauphin… but there’s something uniquely engaging about the Count of St-Germain, who stepped from nowhere with no past and no name to dazzle the French court. He pops up from time to time across Europe, only to vanish, leaving extravagant rumours in his wake: he was immortal; owned the elixir of life; was a Rosicrucian; a spy; an incognito king. I have no urge to burst this bubble. I couldn’t if I tried; the many mysteries about the Count will never be solved. It is possible, though, to winnow some fictions from the facts, and trace their development. The legend has had a life of its own, and it’s quite a story.''


And the following article was taken from Paranormal.about.com.

''Is it possible that a man can achieve immortality - to live forever? That is the startling claim of a historical figure known as Count de Saint-Germain. Records date his birth to the late 1600s, although some believe that his longevity reaches back to the time of Christ. He has appeared many times throughout history - even as recently as the 1970s - always appearing to be about 45 years old. He was known by many of the most famous figures of European history, including Casanova, Madame de Pampadour, Voltaire, King Louis XV, Catherine the Great, Anton Mesmer and others.

Who was this mysterious man? Are the stories of his immortality mere legend and folklore? Or is it possible that he really did discover the secret of defeating death?''


It's said Count de Saint-Germain discovered the secrets behind immortality.

The questions I'm asking are:

Do you believe this man [if he existed] truly discovered that secret?

What do you think about the claims and sightings of Saint-Germain over the years? Are they real, or are they just people who had tried to gain fame?

If yes to the first question, do you think he still lives among us?

What are your beliefs on this?

Stories such as these are interesting. Whether they are totally founded in truth or not is up for question. Having never heard anything of this Count, except in passing, up until now; I would say that it's a fascinating story.

My questions are:

If you know the secret of life everlasting, how come you don't sell it on the open market and make your fortune invincible?

Is immortality enough of a curse to not wish it upon others, and is that the reason for not sharing this secret?

Have there been any recent sightings? And if not why not?

To me immortality is a fantasy story. I don't think that I would want to live forever, and yet if I remained looking youthful... I might consider it a possibility. A dark romance; an eternal life alone? It does have its downside.

best way to become immortal back then was since video pictures were very rare it would take nothing to pull a princess bride on the world back then.Raise someone with the same name teach them what you know tell them stories he had so the heir had them.

I have never believed that any one could live forever, or that there was an elixir of life or any other kind of potion that could defeat death. But if through the centuries certain famous figures were said to have known the same man but at different points in time that were stretched far apart, who's to say that it's not true? Maybe they just said this to gain fame, but why would claiming to have known this man bring you fame?

I think he didn't sell his immortality potion on the market because he wanted to be the only one. I don't think I would buy it any way, because in my opinion if one can truly become immortal then that would be a curse having to live that long and see everything change and to grow accustomed to someone or a group of people and then one day they're gone.

I have never heard of this count but I will definitely look up more on him, articles/posts such as these really catch my interest.

well it is very interesting to say the least. Yet I feel if he did find all the answers to the whole Immortality ... we would not know. I mean he was / is a very intelligent person and therefore would not actually unleash such knowledge upon the world knowing how it would or could be mis used.

As to IF I believe he actually did and is maybe still among us.. well I am open minded and believe anything can be possible.

The only way we could know if he still exists among us is to have seen him, so does any one know of any recent sitings? Does he mainly appear around famous leaders in history, such as kings or religious leaders? If so, do you think (if he is still around today) that he may hold some responsibility as a government leader or an advisor to someone in that sort of position?

I don't believe he ever existed....no one could keep a secret like that for so long....nice tale though.

Actually I didn't believe he had ever existed because I hadn't heard of him before this thread was made. I thought it was very interesting though and it got me thinking. I doubt that any one living for that long would be able to keep it a secret, people would start to notice, unless he moved around alot creating a new identity for himself with each place he went to. I mean people would start to notice if he wasn't aging through out the years.

I don't think that this man or any other have discovered the secret of immortality. I honestly don't believe that it's possible. There might have been sightings of people who look like him, but how could they possibly be him and how do the people 'seeing' him know it's him?

The article says that the most recent sighting was in the 1970's, as someone has already asked, have there been any more recent then that?

This could be just like people claiming to see Elvis here and there from time to time. It's just missing all the impostors pretending to be him to cash in on his name.

Im not sure or not if he is real or still among us. though i do believe that if there were claims of sitings of him they would only KNOW it was him if they themselves were immortal, right? i mean, how would u know who someone whos centuries old is without being that old urself because im sure that if someone were of that age range they wouldnt be leaking their true identity to anyone. or am i just way off.

Do you believe this man [if he existed] truly discovered that secret?

Well thay have had some evidence and maybe yu know he is the reaper or something in deguise and that what gives him immortal life.

What do you think about the claims and sitings of Saint-Germain over the years? Are they real, or are they just people who had tried to gain fame?

Well it could be a mix I mean people are always looking for glory and maybe he was invented but if he wasn't then maybe what they said from germany across all the time periods there is some truth.

What do you think??

If yes to the first question, do you think he still lives among us?

Maybe it is a possibility because they don't have evidence of his death so it could very well be true but if you notice he always takes the form of rich and famous people why is that I wonder???

What are your beliefs on this?

I have stated the general outlook onmy beliefs thr the other statements.

Sinora -

I'd have to disagree with you there. Keeping secrets, especially when you don't show up in history much would be quite easy.

Anyway, I myself believe this man did exist.

Whether or not he did discover the so called secret to eternal life is still something I've not come to a solid thought on.

However, there are historical accounts of [him] supposedly through-out time therefore making the possibility of him existing more possible to believe.

Perhaps it wasn't literally physically, but spiritually, as energy and spirit form that we live in eternally.

Jamie -

But if it were merely physical, wouldn't there be sightings of him at other ages other than the mid 40's?

In "Le Matin de Magiciens", Pauwels and Bergier, the autors, actually took an interview to a misterious person who seems to be the Count in person.
I think you will find that passage very interesting as well as all the book.

I think I found the book translated in English.
You can buy it from here:
THE MORNING OF THE MAGICIANS


I don`t believe someone could survive such a long time because the laws of probability infirms that.There is accidental death I`m speaking about.
If there would be large amount of people who should took the Elixir, there is a slight chance that one of them survived from that century.However from the time of Christ... this is a large amount of time... to large.

The body cells regenerates themselves(not all of them) and every time they do they loose some matiere and the new cell is an imperfect copy of the other one.The modern Genetic fights with that, but improving that new discovered "gene of getting old" will not solve the problem entirely.It only can prolong the life, not make a person immortal.

Comte de St. Germain, did indeed exist.

Here's an interesting read:


I found the last bit about his "Elixir of Life", a tad humerous:

We can, however, identify the elixir of life with some certainty. St-Germain made no secret of it: it was a tea of elder flowers, fennel, and senna pods, soaked in spirits of wine. I’m afraid it was a laxative – a potent one, in fact. Similar mixtures are still on the market. To approximate the Count’s recipe, top it off with brandy. To your health!


MBK edit - I've made the URL into a link to make it easier to find.

I'd recommend reading The Comte de St. Germain which is the first biography of St. Germain written by Isabel Cooper-Oakley.

As well as The Most Holy Trinosophia which was written by Comte de Saint-Germain [translator Manly Palmer Hall].

Both links lead to the books which you can read online.

MBK thanks for "Trinosophia".
I heard that the book it`s only attributed to him.PLease tell me if I`m wrong.
*rushes to read it*

Ooohhh, ~MBK~ you are my bestest friend at the moment. Your subject matter as of late are a few of my favorites.

This one of course, the Compte De St. Germain, the wonderman of Europe...Amongst his many other names. I am apparently an understudy of his philosophies. As the Sacred Geometries that he as well as many others such as Seripus Bey, being in popular teachings when they involve the Great White Brotherhood (none racist, I assure you) were and apparently still are involved with the "higher self" aspect of the metaphysical realms.

I am quite partial to his teachings. Do I think he ever existed, or still does? Very much so. Have I ever met him, sadly no. Do I believe in what he taught, very much. I take everything he said and taught to heart. His concepts of the voilet flame are quite relevant in my daily as well as nightly life.

Do I think he is still alive? Last I heard, he was living in the Himalayas. He seemed to have a vast knowledge of more than many things. As well as the great "elixir of life" of which he carried in a small flask always at his side. Some believed he was a vampire, as per the New Orleans Vampire Tours. Since he carried what appeared to be a mixture of red wine and blood...Purely speculated of course.

Could have been a good cause to call him an immortal or it could have simply have been another theory as to how he actually became who he was...Since he did supposedly walk with the Nazerene. He may have been Judas, or he may have been Jesus himself...Who knows, hell he could have been the Roman soldier that denied the Nazerene that cup of water that he curse to walk the earth until his second coming for all we know.

You could pull the old "Dread Pirate Roberts" where you switch out the old with the new.

Good analogy ~MindCleaner~, but we do need to consider one aspect that slightly contradicts the "dread pirate Roberts" scenerio...The fact that only a few, not even a handful of individuals within an Aeon, could materialize diamonds out of thin air. Or be present at most political engagements throughout history.

Excellent points indeed. I am at a loss as to how to overcome those obstacles. Perhaps you could use a couple of people to bear false witness and spread the rumors?

To bare false witness at a gathering of around 50 individuals as well as in front of a Madame Pompador, of whom was hierarchy at the time. He was said to have visited her on many occasions throughout her life, without looking a day over 40...Would be very radical, especially in those days.

But, I digress...Since it was presumed to be rumour mill back then, the gossip of the community always was rampant back in those days, as per histories tales.

Fantasy does have a mind of its own, even on these occasions. But, does it also explain that same individual or the likeness thereof existing within the New Orleans French Quarter in the early 1900's? Dread pirate Roberts scenerio? Hmmm...

I'm not sure, maybe if really existed his DNA keeps repeating it self every other generation or so and that the persons born looking so much like him are trying to keep alive a legend. Or maybe he did discover the secret to immortality and decided it was much to dangerous for others to have and so keeps it hidden from the world.

But having said all that it might just be a fabulous legend that has been used to gain fame and popularity.

I truly believe it was not fact, many presume it was him maybe a relative pulling the wool over ones eye. who is to say. I do not believe they had found the fountain of youth to give him immortality, nor a picture cursed to hold his age like dorian grey. I think in life we shall find something to exstend life but not to halt death. sorry. the future may hold some truth. yet alchemists and explorers all have claimed to achieve this fate but yet the stories fall short due to their deaths.

well it is very interesting to say the least. Yet I feel if he did find all the answers to the whole Immortality ... we would not know. I mean he was / is a very intelligent person and therefore would not actually unleash such knowledge upon the world knowing how it would or could be mis used.

As to IF I believe he actually did and is maybe still among us.. well I am open minded and believe anything can be possible.

That story reminds me of another one I heard, or read rather, a long time ago, which was reportedly true. Well you can be the judge of that. Details fail me but I'll do my best.
It was about a man who I think was a Yogi of some description. He had died a long time ago, but his body was removed from his grave for some reason and left out. After a few hours he had become a normal living man again, walking around in the sun. The other men present were so frightened that they killed him again, but a few hours later, he was back up walking around again.

The 'secret' to super longevity is possibly exceedingly simple. I reckon the story of this Count could be true. Of course it could easily have been made up, but I would personally like to believe it true.

though it makes for a great story i find thats all it is good for i personally believe it to be fiction and can say i do not believe in such a person being so i do not believe he is alive now for the fact that i think he never existed well not in the manner that he is portrayed

It would just depend on one's interests if they had heard of him. Perhaps he did know the secrets or perhaps many things. No one knows. Could have been something within his family line keeping the legacy alive.

Vipersangel -


Just because you haven't heard of him doesn't mean he hadn't existed. I doubt you've heard of a great, great many things. Do they not exist either? ;]

Hey MBK,


I will study more on the subject but as of now I wanted to say something.

It seems this guy of legend & myth of fact and reality has appearred time & again as you said but how may I ask has he survived for so long???

I ask you that question because even you have said that vampires are only the sangs which die like the rest of us.

And as to the elixir of life they say that has been in two places the cradle of life and on the tip of Florida where comms and planes crash & boats are never seen.

wolfkiller -


As said in the first post -- It's said Count de St. Germain discovered the secret to immortal life by means of the 'elixir of life'.

After reading all the posts about this person I am not sure really what to believe...my first thought was possibly reincarnation into the same person...looks and all...and maybe he could possibly just reappear at that particular age to keep the legend going...this is all just speculation on my part as I am not really sure what to believe.

As for the Elixir of Life...I believe he may be keeping it a secret...if it does exist... due to the fact that he realizes it may be more of a damnation to live eternally rather than a normal life span.

Sitings, MBK? I expected better from you.

I would love to believe that this man did discover the secret to immortality, just for hope's sake.

With that, of course he still lives with us, choose to make an appearance whenever he feels it necessary to do so.

I just went back to read the questions again in another tab( I love firefox) and I'd like to ask if you think that it would be possible for this man to have organized such a thing as to have miscellaneous members of society say that they have seen him? Effectively immortalizing him anyway?

Ahh, Profane -- I don't care how good my topics are. The topics I've posted are things I've never seen posted before which is why I post them. ;]

And as for your question ...


''... and I'd like to ask if you think that it would be possible for this man to have organized such a thing as to have miscellaneous members of society say that they have seen him? Effectively immortalizing him anyway?''


I do think that this is indeed a possibility. However I won't and don't rule out the possibility that the sightings are genuine and not organized in the least.

Ahh, forgive the first part of that sentence. I realize that I made a spelling error in my first paragraph.

A well crafted Society Venture I am sure. I can see the use of such a figure to foundations.

This was not a name i had heard of before , as there have been many tales of eternal life, it would be hard to proof true or untrue. That this person exsisted, thru out that time line over and over again.
I will be looking more into this.

I'm thinking that if this is true and such a person exists then where are the paintings, pictures or something to compare his likeness to over time? And why haven't the scientists grabbed a hold of him and dabbled with his DNA etc......he doesn't sound like the sort that shuns from the public. Just saying.......

Sorry but its a no go for me. Besides who really wants to live forever here. Longer yes ,forever no way.

I think if someone found the way to live forever they would keep if for themselves because would you really want the rich people to have it. Why would you want to world to go to hell think about it. If rich people never died their kids wouldn't get the money and spend it and the world would come to a halt. There has to be death and birth or we would kill the world quicker then we are already.

I would imagine that, at first, there was a character who did something to make himself famous.

Then, as people started to travel across Europe, the original story spread and, with each telling, changed.

When foreigners arrive in a new country, there will always be language problems. Most people picking up a new language will speak in the present tense, especially in Eastern Europe ... this will have caused* past fables to have been talked about in the present - this moves on through Chinese whispers and suddenly you get a man who has just seen the Count.

The whole lot is not helped when, from time to time, some person will adopt the name and fabled lifestyle / history of the Count


*future perfect hehehe
*

The man in the Iron mask is based on fact but how much is uncertain.I read about the man in the iron mask in highschool history and of course saw the movie loved it.
The rest of the stories posted are good reading and like it had been stated how much if any has fact who knows.Back then they did not keep accurate accounts and most were written by a journalist.or a scribe or something to that.

If the gentleman was truly immortal, then where is he today?

TepesEnigma -



If the Immortal Count truly does exist, it's more than likely he's hiding away from society until he feels the desire to go out into it once again.

A pass along identity, used for financial domination of a foundation. Why worry about having heirs when you can just pass along the name, and tweek a few public records.

Indeed it's possible that would be the case; carrying on the idenity of the previous person thus keeping the name alive. That too is immortality.

It also has Financial incentive.

dabbler -

How so would it have that? Certainly the person who, if so, is pretending to be Count de St-Germain could not 'milk it' so to speak, could they?

http://www.crystalinks.com/germain.html


Very informative.

Do you believe this man [if he existed] truly discovered that secret?

(A) I believe that he exisited at one point in history. but I do not believe in such a thing as finding an elixer.

What do you think about the claims and sightings of Saint-Germain over the years? Are they real, or are they just people who had tried to gain fame?
I bleieve that Saint Germain lives through people his spirit I mean so in a way perhaps he does still live on but these people are merely immitators I doubt it is for reasons of fame but rather to keep his immortalitiy alive. as he wanted.

What are your beliefs on this?

I believe that Immortalitiy is acheived through your spirit in others who think about u often and who read things that pertain to you those who try to be you and those who say they are u you are reborn with stories htat are told about and passed on through time that is immortality.

Absolutely, any society can gain financially from such a creation as this. Foundation Money can be secured through a re-listed identity, a constant heir. Along with seminars, and private functions, there are more ways but that goes into a real dark area. I have met teens on line who have kept their friends alive on-line. A Rose Bella Morte' is dead.. yet she still post poetry on line.

Sadly few claim paranormal investigators actually do what investigators do.. and that is question Motive. Financial is the common one.

I do believe that he existed at some point. The fact that he found the 'elixar of life' is much more easy for me to believe than he being a vampire.

I doubt he's around today though. If he is, he's done a fantastic job at hiding.

I suppose if the 'sightings' are mainly a man who looks like him being spotted rather than someone presenting himself as him, it could be a case of familial resemblance.