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demonseed
demonseed

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01:39:01 Jul 14 2008
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Is Wiccan and Pagan the same religion or not? I heard they are the same if so why two different names?




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XxSkyexX
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01:54:25 Jul 14 2008
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I feel that the Pagn religion is mainly the OLD ways of Wicca... they are the same yet some difference as in all religions I mean not all catholics or christians worship the same in their cathedrals or churches Nor do the Wicca or Pagan. My self I feel the Pagan is more old scholl I guess one could say. Just my opinion... I am sure others have better info than i do. :)



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ThexRedxVampire
ThexRedxVampire

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01:56:25 Jul 14 2008
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In the dictionary, pagan means country deweller (one who lives in the country)

But most offen is used to explain witches, warlocks, wicca, and most magick practitioners.

And wicca been being used to explain those who are Practitioners of witchcraft.



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XxSkyexX
XxSkyexX

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02:00:25 Jul 14 2008
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well I am Wiccan and I do not consider myself anything close to practicing witchcraft. LOL ... I mean so many people are misled by that concept. I may use herbs and such for certain things yet I do not practice witchcraft of any kind. I am about nature and earth and the universe etc. just my opinon is all :)-



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HAWK2K
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02:03:57 Jul 14 2008
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pagan is the term used by the Christian church to describe people who worship gods/goddeses other then the Christian deities!....

Wicca is the religion that is Nature and Magic based.

A Wiccan is a Pagan....

A Pagan is not nessecarily a Wiccan.



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mysticwinds
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02:17:23 Jul 14 2008
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I go by the Wiccan guidelines, I consider myself more Pagan. There are so many branches of Wicca,

Alexandrian

British Traditional Wicca

Celtic/Druidic

Just to name a few.



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RaggedyAndy
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02:21:54 Jul 14 2008
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Paganism is the broad term used to describe any religion or belief that is not Christian, Jewish or Muslim. Paganism can be traced back to Neolithic times and survived up until the middle ages when Christianity became powerful enough to erase it from existence. Paganism is an earth based religion which lays emphasis on the worship of all aspects of nature. Paganism appeared very early on in the history of the world. Examples of early paganism, can be seen in ancient Greek and Roman religions, as well as in ancient Goddess worship and Druidic religions. Paganism (which includes Wicca and other Neopagan groups), refers to a range of spiritual paths.

Wicca, in brief, is a Pagan subgroup. It is an earth and nature-honoring religion that celebrates the cycle of the year and the duality of divinity. Wiccans celebrate eight holidays; two solstices, two equinoxes and four other holidays roughly equally spaced throughout the year. These holidays are called Sabbats.



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demonseed
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03:30:12 Jul 14 2008
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PsiVampire that is what i thought but was not sure about it



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DemianA
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03:52:34 Jul 14 2008
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Wica, with one "c" was introduced by Gerald Gardner in the books he wrote about witchcraft in the late 1940s as fiction. There may be a Saxon meaning to the word but the origin is debatable. It was not used by witches until the mid 1970s, and was to get away from the stigma of the word witch. It has become a buzz word used by many to identify themselves as believers in what ever they think the witches believe. Those who call themselves pagans usually mean they believe in divinity other than "God" or who believe in pre Hebrew or pre Christian divinities. Pagan was a word used by the Romans, to describe those who lived ouside the cities and did not worship the Roman divinities.
Wiccans are pagans, but pagans are not wiccans. There are many pagans who call themselves heathens, as well as those who believe in ethnic divinities such as Odin or Morrigan or White Buffalo Woman. Wiccans usually believe in a generic goddess, and most believe in a horned god. There are also witches who only believe in the feminine divinities, and are called Dianic.



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Daermon
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05:57:35 Jul 14 2008
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Wicca, as per Gardner, and a few other contemporaries of his, is a collection of older beliefs, trying to reform the old faiths which were largely wiped out in earlier times.
a religion that embraces witchcraft without requiring it. It has only been formalized since the mid 60's, and only more recently recognized by governments as a religion

Paganism is really a blanket term, covering all aspects of nature worship, multi deity worship, witchcraft, and occultism



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Infernalmage
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06:44:41 Jul 14 2008
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you all drive me to drink....

Look at past threads dealing with this topic, there are pleanty of bits dealling with this idea, and Wicca is a religion people....Pagan is a general term to describe anything non-monotheistic.

If you dont understand big words. Look them up...and WIKI doesnt count.



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SatanKimi17
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06:55:00 Jul 14 2008
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pagan is an older religion, that alot of the christian religions have stolen from. Wiccan is a newer religion that focuses on the earth and mother nature.



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Daileus
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07:34:23 Jul 15 2008
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Wicca is a "folk" religion that came from Great Britain in the 1940's. Paganism is a word that refers to many different religions. Like Christianity refers to about 100 hundred different religions. Paganism refers mainly to religions of a folk nature. pagan religions usually deal with herbs and herbal medicine. They are different, but much alike at the same time.


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Daileus
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07:37:29 Jul 15 2008
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No Wicca is NOT a religion. it is a practice. Wicca is the belief in the power of nature. There is no god or devil involved. Therefore it isn't classified as a religion. it is a practice. Another example is Hoodoo. Which came from Haiti and is practiced throughout New Orleans. Even they will tell you it isn't a religion. It is a practice and a belief in the power of nature and magic/magick.


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HellHathWings
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09:54:23 Jul 15 2008
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Not all Pagans are Wiccan. All Wiccans are Pagan.

It is broken down simular to this


Christian
Baptist---------Lutheran-------Protestant


Pagan
Wiccan-------Nocturnal------Stregan




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Daileus
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10:12:02 Jul 15 2008
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Not all wiccans are Pagan. Most Pagan religions worship a higher power. Where as Wicca has no god or devil. They praise nature. HUGE difference.



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thegothprincess
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12:17:45 Jul 15 2008
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HMM to be pagen is to have the belive in many Gods and Goddess to be wiccan is to belive in a nature bond religion and worship many Gods and Goddess
and becouse many wiccan belive in many Gods and Goddess were are considered pagan by the monotheistic religions of this world

sorry if this doesnt make sense just woke up many hugs



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DravenG
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16:33:11 Jul 15 2008
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Well said said everybody.

It is a widely held belief that all Witches are Pagans, but not all Pagans are Witches. Wicca, like Witchcraft, is a specific path under the umbrella of Paganism or Neo-Paganism.
Some believe Pagans are not all similar, any more than Christians are all similar. The general beliefs, practices, politics, and lifestyles of Gardnerian Wiccans are not the same as Asatru, etc. Ed Fitch is not Lori Cabot , etc.
Wicca by design IS a religious tradition with real, hard and fast rules. However, Wicca as a religion is becoming DILUTED from its original British Traditional origins into a "if it feels good do it" blend of Eclecticism commonly referred to as Neo-Wicca. Many Traditional Wiccans, sometimes referred to as "Old-Guard," continue to hold onto their hard rules, and are often branded as "Orthodox," "Fundamentalist," or "Conservative" whenever they speak out against the "Eclectization" of Brit Trad Wicca. Or they do not speak out at all, which I believe is a true shame.
It is a hotly debated issue within the Craft Community. Most Traditional Wiccans keep to themselves because of it and do not wish to participate in the discussion. The "hyphen-Wicca" groups which have appeared over recent years have driven many Brit-Trad Wiccans further underground, shunning the "limelight" and keeping to themselves and their Covens to protect their material from those who would steal it and publish it for their personal glorification or legitimacy.
Although there is a common thread between various groups or Traditions outside of Wicca, they do not necessarily subscribe to the tenets which are inherent to Traditional Wicca (i.e., Deities, ritual structure, procedures, etc.). In this regard, Druidic, Dianic, Seax, Pictish, Pagan and Shamannic Traditions technically are not Wiccan by definition. But then we go right back into the brain-killing semantics!

Essentially, the issue of Wicca can be broken down thus:
Traditional Wicca - is still kept secret (Oathbound), still practices initiation, does not accept self-initiation, and still teaches one-on-one after a certain basic level is reached. It has its own dogma, a uniform pantheon which is Trad-specific, it's own cosmology, and other lore not readily available to the "Craft Community" at large.
Hyphenated Wicca - this is anything that starts with the name of another culture, real or fictitious, then adds a hyphen and the term Wicca. Examples are Sumerian-Wicca, Eskimo-Wicca, Klingon-Wicca, Jedi-Wicca, Egyptian-Wicca, Cyber-Wicca, etc. Here, a very basic form of Wicca has names, phrases, titles, deities, etc. from another culture forced into it.
Eclectic Wicca - this is the strangest form of all. In Eclectic Wicca (what I call "Neo-Wicca"), all the teaching of Traditional Wicca (which is, after all, what this is all based on) are ignored, forgotten or have never been learned. Here anyone is practically free to create absolutely anything, make any claim, take any ritual and change it to something they like, and then pass it on as ancient wisdom. Eclectic Wicca does have its benefits, but is essentially a popular "fad," much the same way Spiritualism was a fad in the 1800s. Those following this path are responsible for the huge majority of books on the topic, are often badly researched, and even badly written. It is the fun of being Pagan without the work entailed in Traditional teaching and study.

Eclectic-Wicca is Paganism (not that there's anything wrong with that!).

I’ve also been seeing a lot of people inaccuratly refering to the Rede in this folder, so I’ve decided to include the following:
The Rede of the Wiccae is not "LAW." This is a fundamental misconception by many people not privy to the Oral Mysteries behind the Rede, which are Oathbound teachings given only to Initiates of the Tradition from which the Rede originated. The translation of the word "Rede" means COUNSEL. It is not, and was never intended to be LAW.
The Rede of the Wiccae is a classic example of how Traditional Wiccae material has been co-opted by many people new to the Craft scene without realizing the full implications behind it. I guess it's a tribute to the simplistic "Universal Truth" contained within it, but it also causes a great deal of confusion


http://www.witches-tutorial.com/paths/wvsp.html


So there has always been the question that you have asked, it would just depend on on what the person believes



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lavisbre
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16:52:18 Jul 15 2008
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Yeh I served my time in wicca… I moved on to a druid order … and found chaos magic was the answer to it all



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DeLa
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17:13:21 Jul 15 2008
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Wicca is under the paganism "umbrella", but it is not the same as witchcraft.



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Erinyes
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07:08:03 Jul 18 2008
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pagan and wicca is quite different i believe i find that pagan is a old belief sytem and wicca to be quite new compared to the latter



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Undervampsgaze
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05:15:25 Jul 21 2008
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I feel that they are the same thing just one is quite a bit older.. Pagan is older then Wicca.



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Erinyes
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05:55:49 Jul 21 2008
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i think wicca is more of a beliefe system and that paganism can be more of a group of catagorized practices.



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aloneibleed2126
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17:03:27 Jul 21 2008
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in some ways they are the same but they are diffrent.. If you look at most religions they are the same in some ways.. Christianity "burrowed" most of there stuff from pagan so it happends...



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demonseed
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23:55:03 Jul 22 2008
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ok so wicca is also reffered as earth relgion then



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DeadlyXDesire
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00:00:06 Jul 23 2008
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If I am not mistaken both wicca and paganism are considered earth based...if I am incorrect in this feel free to correct me.



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MartriarchOfWitches
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04:13:35 Jul 23 2008
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wicca is more on nature side, pagan is more christanity atleast thats what i was told i maybe wrong but you wanted my opinon smile



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lavisbre
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04:54:37 Jul 23 2008
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Welll ….. wicca is only 50 years old and built under guidance from Alister in some letters between Gardner and Alister Crowley. Paganism is a much older heritage



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WolfEye
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04:57:25 Jul 23 2008
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There is a difference pagan is the ancient ways of magic and wicca is not it is more modern and they don't believe exactly the same either.



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Dieadren
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05:34:09 Jul 23 2008
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When someone is considered a pagan, that means that yes they are also considered wiccan. but not all the ttime. wicca and pagan are two seperate religions yet the same in some characteristics. Both worship the same lists of goddesses, however... the rituals may be different. Wicca is the ivolved version of a pagan supporters. Wicca has more choices in spellcasting and rutuals because its adapted to the new society, pagan's however...have not.



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Erinyes
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05:37:26 Jul 23 2008
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no i would have to agree if one were to say the two were exactly the same..or why else would they exist,i believe both to have some common teachings but they differ alot in their history and followers.



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Xzavier
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15:38:39 Jul 23 2008
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Simply put Paganism is not a religion it is a classification of religions, generally polytheists and cults (cult simply means non-mainstream).

Wicca is a religion proper, it has it's own set of beliefs and organizations. Although I must say that Wicca has a very weak foundation of its own and no real unique history since it is basically a collection of fracutred pagan religions meshed together to form something new. (Not meant to offend of course just a quick history 101).

Hope that helps :)



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vamp345
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17:11:08 Jul 24 2008
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ok they are bolth based on nature and the pagen high console created wicca fifty years ago and its been like that since the fall of paigen



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ForbiddenTemptation
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17:14:55 Jul 24 2008
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I believe there is some simularity in the both but I again believe in the accent ways and people tend to forget the accent ways of witchcraft, From a book and others magic it will just back fire if not used correctly from with in and your soul it will be great because its from u your energies and your godds



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vamp345
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17:30:17 Jul 24 2008
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yes you are right and i agree i also use the ancient ways i always have used them and people need to remember them and we need to bring them back



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Daileus
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18:31:47 Jul 24 2008
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But Wicca is NOT a religion...there is no god or devil involved. They believe in the power of nature. Therefore Wicca is classified the same as Hoodoo. It is a practice. NOT a religion



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vamp345
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18:42:52 Jul 24 2008
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it is too a religion even though we dont beleve in the same things



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NartinaLeMaliki
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21:59:28 Jul 24 2008
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Pagan and Wicca are one in the same, except that the word Pagan describes one or more branches of beliefs that are not christian. Wicca is a branch off the Pagan belief.



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DeadlyXDesire
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23:44:09 Jul 24 2008
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Just because a person does not believe in a religion or it's ways does not mean that it is not a religion. People all believe differently and they should be respected for those differences rather than ridiculed or told their belief isn't true.



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Profane
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01:19:01 Jul 25 2008
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Paganism is an umbrella term for almost any deviance from mainstream practices.

Wicca is simply not mainstream and is thusly a pagan belief.

Otherwise, it is just like any other belief system that breaks down.

ie: Catholics break into Christians and Protestants(for example).

Pagans break into Wiccans and Druids(for example)



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AdurnaLoivissA
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01:23:06 Jul 25 2008
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I agree with hawk2k as i am a pagan who is studying the drudic path .... just because you are wiccan doesn't make you pagan and just because your are pagan doesn't make you wiccan



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disposablexteen
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19:43:21 Jul 25 2008
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Wicca is a form of magic.

Paganism is a religion.

I think.

Sometimes they go hand in hand, but not always.



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Ciardha
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20:54:03 Jul 25 2008
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Wicca is a natural way of healing and doing things



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vamp345
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21:57:45 Jul 25 2008
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they bolth are and they bolth are a religion and they are the same with different ways of doing the same thing



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DeadlyXDesire
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15:55:20 Jul 26 2008
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Here is a thought...does a faith have to be organized and publicly recognized and accepted in order for it to be a religion?

I believe that if you have a deep faith in something that it is a religion to you...no matter what society says.



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HellHathWings
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17:45:08 Jul 26 2008
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DD, you are right, my religion is different from yours, even if we study the same books



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XSilverxMoonxNightX
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17:50:16 Jul 26 2008
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I was taught that they are similar but two different religions what the differences are are beyond me and my bliefes thats as far as I go lol



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XSilverxMoonxNightX
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17:55:10 Jul 26 2008
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however I did do a serch in hopes that it would help u further
here is the link
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Pagan-Wiccan-Religion-3207/Pagan-vs-Wiccan-1.htm



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HellHathWings
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18:05:02 Jul 26 2008
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My music files are named like this:

Genre_Artist_Album_Song

so I will use that format

Religion_Pagan_Wicca_Degree

Catagory_Sub Catagory_Branch_Title




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HellHathWings
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18:10:50 Jul 26 2008
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another example:


When writing an essay you start by doing this

Animals

A) Houshold Pets
1 - Caged
a. Birds
b. Rodents

2 - In a Tank

3 - Not in either

B) Water Animals


C) Air Animals


D) Land Animals



I will not continue as you should get the point. Pagan would be the equivalent of Household Pets and Wicca would be the equivalent of Caged. Etc.



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seawitch
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20:21:32 Jul 27 2008
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Pagan is anything outside the main stream...



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EvilBeing
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01:59:01 Jul 31 2008
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almost the samething but they believe in different things like pagans believe more in nature and spirits and were wiccans believe in spirits.



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vampyregoddess74
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07:23:14 Jul 31 2008
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Pagan is anything outside Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.Wicca is a pagan religion



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vamp345
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14:19:52 Jul 31 2008
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ok its already reconized as a religon so you can stop that subject right their and its basicly the same thing just different ways of doing it ok



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demonseed
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22:50:32 Aug 03 2008
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well thanks for all your input but it loks like it can be argued forever



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MorbidMorte
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00:06:40 Aug 04 2008
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It depends. Christians use the term Pagan to describe those who don't worship the Christian God. Others use it to describe the old religions or Neo-Paganism.



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Languor
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02:30:20 Aug 04 2008
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ive always see it as

Wiccan Good

Pagen Evil

but it is intresting to think about



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lavisbre
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04:30:43 Aug 04 2008
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Wow I see a lot of misinformation about everything lol
Wicca is a religion recognized by the state, it is 50 years old only based on backward engineering of occult matters.

Pagan is much older, it is also a derogatory comment made about belief of anything outside cathic religion.
So we have a mix up to start depending on your religion or ignorance.


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MorbidMorte
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06:36:06 Aug 04 2008
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horrorrock -



Please explain why you view Paganism as evil, if you would. It might help with better understanding.



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hoganj
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06:44:36 Aug 04 2008
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i think they are diff. pagan is more evilish and wiccan is more natureish



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ShatteredGlassHeart
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06:55:47 Aug 04 2008
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I don't really see Paganism as a religion because there is no organization to it. Same thing with Wicca - I view it more as a spirituality.

A religion is something that is organized and people can practice it in groups. The way I see Paganism and Wicca, it is possible to practice one or the other (or both) in a solitairy fashion. You don't have to come together with a group of people on a given day to worship your deity.

For some good reading, you should look for Scott Cunningham's "Wicca: A Guide for the Solitairy Practioner". It's rather easy to get a hold of; it should be available at your local bookstore. It's very self-explanatory and easy to follow. It's one of my favorites! :)



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shadowofmystry
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08:30:43 Aug 04 2008
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Ive always seen them as two seperate religions. People either claim one or the other.Ive never even seem them mentioned as remotely similar.


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wolfgirl304
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09:58:25 Aug 04 2008
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no they are not.i am wiccan and my bf and his father are pagan.they are very simaler though.and go by alot of the same belief's



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MorbidMorte
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10:04:37 Aug 04 2008
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I think this might be able to help some people out.



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Maxx
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01:50:07 Aug 06 2008
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The way I understand it, Paganism is the general worship of the old gods and godesses. Wicca is a more diverse, yet organised, way of worshipping which cultural deities you prefer.

Me, I'm wiccan. I prefer the Ancient Greek, Egyptian, and Chinese/Japanese deities.



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Daileus
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02:30:35 Aug 06 2008
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Paganism refers to hundreds of religions. Mostly folk religions. But Wicca is NOT a religion. In most Pagan religions there is a god and devil. In wicca there is neither, just nature and nature alone.



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MorbidMorte
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04:06:21 Aug 06 2008
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darkXwhisper - I thought Wiccans worshipped both a God and Goddess? That's what I've read in most thing about Wiccans I've seen.



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xdarkxchildx
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20:46:39 Aug 07 2008
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ok wicca is a break down of pagan like in christianity we have luterans baptists and others



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masharia
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20:51:15 Aug 07 2008
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you could classify it kinda like christianity...

Paganiam is like christianity: very broad, and has many sub divisions

Wiccan is like the church of christ... just one of the many sub divisions of Paganism...

does that make sense to anyone other than me?



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Spiritwalker
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22:12:26 Aug 07 2008
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masharia -


Yes, what you say does make sense. And does have some truth behind it too.

As said earlier the term Pagan is used for any religion outside the Christian beliefs.



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vipersangel2
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19:09:21 Aug 10 2008
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my opinion on this is they are just a break off of each other sort of like christianity is a break off of the catholic church.



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MooniePie
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19:17:30 Aug 10 2008
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Postings are starting to be repetitive. This thread has taken it's course.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by CountessMoon on Aug 10 2008  •

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