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Is evil an essence that permeates reality and infects humans, or is evil created by humans and it is us who defile the world around us.

Please, share your thoughts on this... before I pop a blood vessel over it (yeah, I'm sure many of you would just love that :)

What is evil is a matter of oppinion... I.E.- the bads guys always think their plan would rock if carried out and fullfilled... the good guys think it would suck.

So... it is MY oppinion it is humanities creation.
=)

Evil is perception, what you perceive as evil may to another be considered natural e.g. animal sacrifice or cannibalism.

I for example think pop music and the manufactured group is evil incarnate.

in total agreement with daire here....we are talking about perceptions on this one....before asking the nature of evil.... you would have to define what evil is.....

I agree, everyones opinion of evil is diferent.

dang,
i have got concur, let's say to a bad guy, a good guy would be evil, but both think that they are in the right, it really all comes down to what you think is right and what you think is wrong

Ok, my turn to go out on a limb. I hope the branch holds.

I don't believe good and evil, at out current "understanding" of those words, exist.

Before you go ballistic on me, let me explain as best I can.

Things are, or things are not. The existence of a thing, an idea, an essence, is neither good nor evil in and of itself.

Mentality, intellect, strives to encapsulate and pigeonhole things, people, ideas, everything into understandable nooks. "This is this and that is that, and that is all." I think we do this in order to create ... order for ourselves.

Good and Evil are simply two very basic labels we use to order our world. As I do not believe any one thing is either inherently good or inherently evil, I believe neither true good nor true evil exist.

We perceive, or choose to label this thing, this person, this action, this intent, this thought, this way as good or evil. Good and evil are creations of the intellect. They cannot exist without that intellect to power them.

The world is not black and white, as these two sides of the same coin would seem to imply. The world is the grey in-between black and white, and comprised of black and white. In essence, the world is the coin, not the outer surfaces (to completely mangle a metaphor).

If the supposition that good and evil do exist, then I am of the opinion that one cannot exist without the other. Nothing is completely good, and nothing is completely evil; therefore, to try and label anything, and I do mean anything, as wholly either, is fallacy.

You can throw examples at me all the day long, and I will argue from both sides of the issue, evil or good, neither or both.

Things are, or things are not? No.

Things may be. People may be. Ideas may be. Intent may be. Action may be.

Fish.

*shrug*

There is good, and there is evil. There is no grey area between the two. Those that say there is are either ignorant or are attempting to rationalize their personal philosophy.

Ignorance, although usually taken to be derogatory, isn't always so. There is truth in the saying, Ignorance is Bliss. But after you come to understand the truth, there is no going back. No un-ringing of the bell...

Evil can be summed up quite easily. Evil is an action by one entity that in some way harms another entity. However small or however large. It could be murder or it could be simple deceit.

Good is also known as love. For many, it is easier to think of as the absence of evil, but this is not quite accurate. If someone is robbing someone else, and a man walks by and does nothing... That man is not doing evil, but he is also not doing good.

Good is far harder to summarize.

You have all made some valid points, Requim to you I tip my hat, as I believe in nature, and the balance. But I must draw a line... You see society does label things they do not understand as evil, therefore it is a slap in the face to those which are labeled. But what of those who strive to be truely evil. I don't mean in a outward way. I mean from the core, where no one can see. As people strive to be enlightened ( in keeping with the balance) there are people who wish to extiguish all light. In my travels I have met such people, people whom I believe that at that time in their lives where the embodyment of evil. There are no limits to what we can achieve as humans, from great beauty to great disaster.

Yes I know that it doesn't sound like I giving much more than another perception of what evil might be, from my point of view. But you will know evil when it stares you in the face. You won't question it's existance. You will just bare the scar on your soul from where it touched you, and be able to recognize it agian.

(In my opinion) Bloodreaper I answer yes I believe both exist, an outside and inside evil. How it is manifested and to what level is such a broad range of conversation, that would take years of explanation of demonology, the human emotions,sickness,theology,presedent Bush!Sorry I could'nt help it. I think if it troubles you so much, and It sounds like from your thread it is! Ask what question of evil whatever form it may be, and try to relate it to us as what is causing you trouble. Other wise Im going to have to start off and say the bible says cast away a demon and he will bring seven fold back stronger than himself! and on and on..etc.

We all have a good and bad side..
it's the way we were born...
Read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde..
=)

Im with Tarquin there. There are different sides. Opposites, and this has to be but into pigeon-holes so that the human mind can understand.

A person may do the right thing for the wrong reason or visa versa... is this good or bad? I am not sure abotu defining a 'grey area' as Cancer mentioned between the two things, but I agree with the idea of personal; perception and judgement of the self and those around us.

I reinterate,
There is no light without the dark
God Cancer, I think just like you, no gray area for me either, black or white, good or bad. evil or good, hate or love, feel or don't feel, labels mean nothing, Action speaks louder than Words.

evil and good is a very hard subject to agree on because many people have differnet ideas on what good and evil are. as some people still think that people who do witch craft (sorry if i have offended any of you by calling it the wrong name as i have once said this before in the past and somone had a right go at me) is evil as it is the work of the devil. but there are many people that believe that it is good for our society and helps cure and save people.

It seems that the discussion above has already summed up the whole thing.

Evil is a perception.

I'm going to have to disagree with Cancer when he says everything is black and white. I quote, "Evil is an action by one entity that in some way harms another entity," while that is true, how do you define an action that hurts one but saves another. Is that good? or evil?
Looks grey to me.

This all is my very humble opinion.:)

Interesting! looks up.

Ahhh ::big sigh:: Too many opinions but all are so right yet wrong. Seeing anything here? In all honesty I think that alot of things have been covered here on the grand scheme. I can pick out a piece of each reply and nod to it or shake my head. To put all of these replys together plus some more well thought out answers would go for a good read on the whole. What I am trying to say is that to me all of your answers are very realistic and just like good and evil, they are an opinion. Who's to say what is good or bad ..like someone said earlier, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." No one can lable something right because somewhere someone thinks it's wrong. Someone's left could be another's right, etc... So I must say to Ms. darkfairy, I liked your response. It showed another awsome mind swaying opinon. ::kiss kiss:: Da svedania.

Interesting thread I must say.
There are several answers possible for it.
In my past mortal life when I was still pure and innocent, I used to believe the christian tale of evil and good. The fallen angel lucifer kicked out of heaven, just to rule the underworld. It was told that the heart of men was easily corrupted, lucifer tricked people in to his lair. Only to become demons. This point of view would say that evil would find his roots in the heaven above. God damned lucifer, so you could say that god was the beginning of evilness.
Now I think otherwise. I believe that evil isn't really made by men or anything else. Ofcourse it was practised and improved by men but the basic meaning evil goes much deeper. It must have been here since the beginning of time because remember there can't be good without evil. no day without night.

I'll agree with fairy that there is more grey than some would be willing to admit.

but one doesn't have to have an ethical position on good or evil to be generally begine.

It's in ones self interest most of the time to respect anothers boundrarys and to expect the same in return.

but cancer is correct in that damageing another or de-humanizing them is the core of most horrible things....

the minute you can look at another human in pain and feel no sympathy you've headed down the slippery path that strips the humanity from you.

The concept of evil. varies amongst religions. Theologically speaking, the emphasis upon transcendent causes for evil actually provides an excuse whereby evil becomes accepted as a given state of the human condition because of our inferiority to this transcendent cause. We look to magical prayers, faith in external messiahs, or God's Grace to protect us from that which we create. Such perpetuates a psychological suggestion that evil is something we must fight; rather than, a force we can conquer through self-control.

The concepts we are discussing not only create projectionary attitudes that lead to indifference and the blame game; but ultimately, they can feed a paranoia that is dangerous, leading to religious persecution, holy wars, and hatred among peoples. To see all people as children of God as Jesus taught makes such things much more difficult. But once we can demonize, others we can feel justified in any persecution or condemnation of them. It is a method Hitler understood and used to support his persecution of Jews. We also see it used in many fundamentalist traditions of a variety of religious belief structures to incite violence and promote vindictiveness. Such projection is portrayed in the Gospels and used against Jesus himself:

D

A couple of responses here... I've been away for the holidays (and I am off again this weekend for New Years).

Slaz: Witchcraft can be good or evil, depending upon the action. Love spells are evil (yes, I said evil!), as they enforce the will of one individual upon another. Healing spells however are quite good, as they are based in love.

Darkfairy: It is not completely accurate to state that evil is a perception. Can you honestly argue rape is a perception? There are boundaries. The 'fringes' do not fit the definition I have earlier stated. You are either harming someone or you are not.

As to your second point, harming one to save another, this is the old question, 'Do the ends justify the means?'. I will always answer this no.

mortallover: I'm sorry, but not all labels are bad. No one will convince me that murder good. Or even a 'perception'.

Dhampir: In an attempt to avoid the circumstances you have described, I put forth a very simple definition.

i think from reading the posts, that the concept of good and evil and the line between them comes from whether your actions hurt another. If you hurt someone then thats evil/bad, if you dont then it good. But i pose something to ponder.... why do we as a race find that hurting is bad and not hurting is good??? who taught you that??? your parents??? who taught them???? their parents??? it all agains comes down to social conditioning starting from thousands of years ago. So given that, if humans were when we began as a race thought that hurting was good and not hurting was bad, would we as a race see things differently now,then what we do now??? (given that we havent killed ourselves off lol)

you know no one has really done this in this thread yet so i am gosh darn it

evil is the smell of baked beans that have been stuck in the back of the fridge for 3 or 4 months
that i think is what evil truly is
*or at least smells like hehehe

hehehehehehe.....

to quote Jean Jacques Rousseau: "Our greatest evil flows from ourselves."

Evil is psychologically acceptablebecause we rationalize that we have no ultimate control over it. Other religious ideals also offer projections to their followers; some claiming there is no evil at all. Or, fate or destiny over which we have no control preordains evil acts.

because of this it is difficult to define evil and it provides an excuse whereby evil is allowed to be woven into the fabric of our society.

Its funny because those who use magical prayers, faith in external messiahs or God's, use them to protect them against what we create....

Psychologically this propells us to fight evil, as an external entity, instead of a force that we could conquer within ourselves....

AnTaNia999, in response to the concept that hurting others is not a bad thing...

There are a lot of different angles from which I could attack this argument. To begin with, to the best of my knowledge, there is no nation on earth that allows murder (making exceptions for capital punishment, abortion, suicide, and euthanasia). You just can't go out and do whatever you want (if it directly affects someone else). This being said, there must be some truth to the concept that murder is bad. Otherwise, you'd think at least ONE society would let you go out and kill your neighbor.

In nature, it is very rare for an animal to kill for pleasure. The occasional lion or tiger might do it, but then it might be for territorial reasons we are unable to understand. Animals kill for food, territory, or mating rights. Wherever there is necessity.

Finally (and few will actually understand this), there are spiritual laws that exist. When you break them, karma and other consequences are the result.

i totally agree, my comments, were not directing the point that hurting someone is a good thing, but just looking at our thought processes... if we thought differently about how things are, would evil be the same as what we percieve it now....

My hat is off to you all for this discussion (err, I mean my cape *smile*) and thank you Cancer for mentioning spiritual laws, I do understand them.

evil is being woken up at 3am by a parasite (stupidity trophy) kicking you in certian organs ya didnt know you had!!
the good will be when its finally outta my system lol

ok here goes evil in my opinion is a malicious and conscious act of harm against someone who did nothing to warrant such an act. I couldn't say that i have not toyed with people but i don't deliberately harm the people i care about. This I feel is the true understanding of what it is to be evil. (even if it sounds like i got it from the dictionary)lol

Good evil is all just a way of looking at something.No matter how evil you think something.Someone else will see it as good.Look at Hitler I think evil but there are those who think he may have had the right idea.So in there minds Hitler was good.

an odd and often repeated question: the definition of good and evil. For one such as myself there is no difference really. It all depends on which side of the looking glass the majority sees out of, so to speak. Take Wal-mart for example. There are tons of foods and goods sitting out waiting to be optain and consumed. So why do people not simply pick them up and go on there merry way? Instead we pay for them and this is said to be right and just. To take the items without paying is looked upon as evil but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. In the end the goal is to obtain the items and either way this goal is achieved. So why is it that simply taking the items is not allowed? Simply because the majority rule says so and in the end thats what it all comes down to. Each person has the right to decide in their heart what is good and evil but the laws we must obey are based on majority rule. There are so many religions and groups today because of that. People get together and form the base for what they will deem good and what they will deem evil. So in short, evil is simply what you want it to be but keep in mind that not everyone thinks the way you do.

First of all, we live on this earth to learn what good and evil is. I once read in a very interesting book that God made Satan. But Satan is no devil, he is following orders from God. There is no devil. That doesn't mean that there are no vampires, because there are. I think that people have become a vampire or born that way must learn the evil things to themselfs and to others. It is really difficult to explain the concept of evil, because for everyone evil can be good or good can be evil. You can say that there is no difference between good and evil, but there is for those who think in good and evil. I'll hope you all will understand it.

Evil is idea created by man. There is right and wrong. We all know and feel what is right and what is wrong, however evil and good that is something that is greatly influenced by our understanding of history and what has been instilled upon us from past to the modern. I guess it depends on how moral you are and what your beliefs might be

I believe it is both, Evil has been present since the universe was formed, it exists in everything around us, what we touch, what we use, what we laugh at and we also make our own evil, we create evil for ourselves, for evil always follows us and always trys to make it self present in everything we do, evil makes us make evil, evil is evil and good is good, the only difference is our concepts of it, for everybody has there own definitions of evil and good, one man or woman's good may be another's evil

I think evil depends on the person.. for instance I think that people that wake me by calling in the wee hours of the morning and making me cranky are EVIL PEOPLE!! hehe lol and I do agree Cancer Love spells are evil too!!!

It really does depend doesn't it??
(I have to stop sayin that in almsot EVERY thread but goddamnit lol)
Some people would say we r evil just cos of the mere name "Vampire" yet there is a few ppl I have talked to here and they are about as evil as a person giving out free money (then again some ppl would say thats evil but hey) so its really kind of a Tomato tamatoe situation