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Psychic detectives
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lavisbre
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05:24:37 Sep 30 2008
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I find the police use psychics in cases they cant solve or need help where time is limited.
Many cases are solved, what’s your view on this occult practice?




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Daileus
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06:29:40 Sep 30 2008
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Actually they don't really help much. Psychic detectives just repeat what they read on the criminal’s profile. In most cases the are just there to make the family feel better. by like saying "your daughter is still alive I can sense it!" Stuff like that. Mainly to give the family of the victims hope.



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TumorNamedMarla
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06:43:13 Sep 30 2008
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"Psychic Detectives” aren’t psychic or detectives...they read body language like mentalists do and basically use public knowledge of cases to "detect" what they think the police and families want to hear. They play on hunches and the usual "killer" drop zones. They don't do anything that the police do already...except pretend to know more.



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darkenedhope
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07:52:11 Sep 30 2008
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I have read some stories where the PD has seen specific details such as signs with business names on them and they seem very plausible I also believe that many are frauds. They use generalization and ambiguity. Most things are 50/50, say enough time has elapsed that the odds are that the person missing is dead, then you could easily presume the body is burried like in most crimes, or do they see either water or land, etc.......its all in the odds.



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Daileus
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07:57:27 Sep 30 2008
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Exactly pedal! They just speak the most possible scenarios and hope they are mostly correct. They are frauds. Read what Pat Brown had to say about them in her non fiction novel "Killing For Sport." She said they usually do more harm than good.



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dabbler
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19:38:16 Sep 30 2008
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Sandra Chisolm was only 12 years old when her father, John, was lost in the Arctic Ocean along with 35 other crew members of the Hull based trawler Gaul.

When approached by a production company making an episode of “Psychic Detective” for the Living Television Channel, she agreed to take part to try and find some closure over the loss which has affected her life, and health, since 1974. The “Psychic Detective” is Tony Stockwell who now claims his “powers” have seen what really happened to Sandra’s father and the crew of the GAUL. Five years ago, four sets of human remains were recovered during a Government backed survey and search of the trawler’s wreck, which led to a Public Inquiry which judged that the ship and all its crew were lost naturally, in the heavy seas at the time of the loss.

But Stockwell told Sandra that her father and 17 others of the crew were taken off the ship, and the other crewmen were shot prior to the ship’s sinking. He claims psychically overhearing two crew of the GAUL discussing what was to be the trawler’s fatal voyage prior to its departure from Hull, and “hearing” them discussing that a spy would be put on board the GAUL and landed secretly in Russia, during what was to be its last voyage.

“The whole thing is a cheap con,”

said Sandra, remembering waiting by the dockside in Aberdeen as the four sets of human remains found on the wreck were brought back in 2000, hoping that one of the bodies might be her father, so ending her years of anguish.

“The programme makes out that it was me who approached Tony Stockwell asking him to investigate my father’s death. This is rubbish, they first approached me, telephoning me and then arranging for me to come down to London to meet him, a meeting that they actually filmed. I remember at the time the film production people asking me over and over again, to state in several different ways that it was that me who wanted to meet Tony. At the end of the final day of three separate interviews they wanted me to say on film that I was happy with his findings about what had happened to my father and the GAUL’s crew, but I would not. Tony Stockwell is about as psychic as my dog.”

“They have cheapened a very serious story, which has affected many people’s lives as well as mine, for a piece of cheap television. The great majority of the “psychic sessions” that were filmed with me were not used in the finished programme. It was an elaborate con to gain my confidence before they shamelessly manipulated my story to fit in with Stockwell’s Psychic “discoveries”. I spent hours filming, often in great discomfort due to my medical condition, and much of what was filmed has not been used, only the edited parts which make Tony Stockwell appear to be something he most definitely is not.”

Please site your sources: Story taken from here or your posts may be deleted.



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dabbler
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19:39:19 Sep 30 2008
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I will post more but I will say I was once a believer in this, and I have seen things that have jolted me out of that belief.



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Lightningsking
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20:29:15 Sep 30 2008
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I think there are some legitimate Psychic out there that do solve crimes. But also believe the majority of them are fakes just looking for thier 15 minutes of fame



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Beastt17
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23:27:11 Sep 30 2008
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Well, I don't have a lot of confirmed data on the results but I think it's fair to say that if the results were overwhelmingly positive (even a 20% solve rate), nearly every department would either have a psychic on the payroll, or have access to one through County or State law enforcement offices. That's clearly not the case.

I do know of one instance where a proclaimed psychic was called in on a local murder. There "insight" proved disappointing and the crime still remains unsolved years later.

I think in many cases administrative personnel (read that "politicians"), within departments call in proclaimed psychics as a way to demonstrate to the public that they're leaving no stone unturned in their efforts to solve a given crime. If it works, great. If it doesn't work, at least no one can claim they didn't try.



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healer
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23:41:57 Sep 30 2008
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being psychic is not an "occult practice"



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dabbler
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23:46:13 Sep 30 2008
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It is exploitation, a gross violation of victims. I have followed cases where a "psychic contacts the victims family and hit on some "unknown"/unreleased fact about a crime, it is later found that that "unknown info" was eaves dropping on scanners, of the on scene responders. If you went to a doctor that said I am occasionally wrong, but if you have faith I will be more likely to perform this proceeder, though I have missed in my last two operations.. would you stay to be operated on?

https://webspace.utexas.edu/cokerwr/www/index.html/detectives.shtml

Please don't enforce this scam practice, people in there most vulnerable moments take any favored promotions to heart.

Detectives have claimed to get "leads" from psychics in the past, but this was used to hide actual sources for that lead, something that is boasted by the psychic (usually against gag orders). They are worse then amblence chasers, and snake oil sales men.

Leave all the "psychic/mystic stuff in the parlor. It has been kicked more then dead horses in a boot testing plant. I agree with Beast, where are the Official Psychics, why won't they Date stamp their "premanitions" why do they always come out after the breaks in the case? Some people have personal issues with so called psychics.. you hint that "some are geinuine" yet there are no links to breaking main stream press that state such cases, Shall I start listing the 100,000 plus cases of Psychic detective fraud? How many so call PD that have been arrested?



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dabbler
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23:46:56 Sep 30 2008
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Please list the many cases that have been solved by a psychic detective?



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Mathiaus
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01:46:50 Oct 01 2008
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ive never heard of any actual cases where a person of this nature has ever been a help



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Nightgame
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02:32:35 Oct 01 2008
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I've heard and read of Psychic's "helping" the police for years with some limited success but not enough to usually justify the public outcry it causes. Seems regular folks don't and won't support the ideal.

For myself I suspect that where a real psychic helps the police it's only that they be kept out of the press and all.



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Jynx
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04:23:47 Oct 01 2008
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they should take the help of hypnotists etc in investigations coz they are highly capable..,



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Daileus
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04:52:53 Oct 01 2008
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For one I agree with beast! Finally! Criminal profiling is my cup of tea. And from the numerous amounts of non fiction books I have read on criminals, psychics are just full of sh*t. They get in the way and do a lot more harm than good. They spew their predictions like green slime and pump the families of the victims full of hope that their loved ones are still alive when really the vixtims body is buried in about 11 different places. Do you have any idea the damage that does!? Telling an 11 year old girls mother that you see her and that she is still alive only to find her dead a few days later? Horrible people. Psychic detectives need their jobs eliminated.

READ:

My Life Amongst the Serial Killers ~ helen Morrison i think
Killing For Sport ~ Pat brown
Everything Ann Rule



the first two titles I posted both state the same thing. Psychic investigators are a crock, they do more harm than good. And their sole purpose is to instill hope into the families of the victims when there isn't any.



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RootedinEvil
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05:20:06 Oct 01 2008
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I think it makes for a good TV, fictional TV, like 'Medium'.

Other than that, the practice has not proven itself enough for me to lean on it for definite answers.



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Confusion
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06:29:04 Oct 01 2008
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I don't believe it works. Just like with other psychics I believe them to be fake.



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ZombieSushi
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10:22:47 Oct 01 2008
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I tend to think that for the most part they are not necessarily "fake", but their so called hunches and such is merely conjecture based on nothing but how then feel.
now i also happen to think that there are people with an innate sense of perception etc. who can help with certain cases, but that they are so few and far between that its not worth the trouble.



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Erinyes
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11:19:33 Oct 01 2008
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i don't find nothing wrong with using the occult practices especially if it's to help solve a case.



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ZombieSushi
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11:35:25 Oct 01 2008
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I agree. while i happen to think its a small percent that are truely gifted if it solves the case by all means exhaust every resource.



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TrashCore
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12:52:40 Oct 01 2008
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Honestly.. I think it's just a big crock.
They read a criminal profile, and the case file, and put two and two together.



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kytryn
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13:29:32 Oct 01 2008
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wow there r some grumpy ppl on here. why do you get so excited cuttin all this down.. this is more like a rant than a discussion..cant ya feel the heat..oh wait..that doesnt exist either..hmmmmm



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xXxSlaveAngelxXx
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14:07:35 Oct 01 2008
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Although I must agree to a certain extent to what has been previously posted, I have to say to each their own when it comes to the forum...

Personally I think it's a wonderful tool for law enforcement to have. Whether or not it works. Sometimes it calms the family down to know there is something more than brunt police work going on. It helps to know the effort is being put in. Sometimes it hurts the family and such but in the long run it helps them to deal with it. I don't need a proven case to feel that it is a huge help.



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mysticwinds
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14:46:58 Oct 01 2008
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I have to agree with xXxSlaveAngelxXx. I have to ask myself are police so lost in the investigation, they need to turn to a psychic? I am not talking of television shows, but will we ever know the small % of psychics who have led the police to the victim? For many good pyschics hold a low key for they do not want to be overwhelmed with people. I know a psychic who has helped the police find missing children, by the call of the police. He just did'nt go to the police they came to him. Out of 12 cases he felt bad that he could only help 5. There was no information given to him, only the picture of the child. They do not always put into the newspaper everything. For many facts are hidden, so so looney tune does'nt come in saying they committed the crime with just the facts from the newspaper.



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lavisbre
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18:21:22 Oct 01 2008
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Interestingly strong views ….

Im sure there are as many solved as there are fraud, that’s human nature your talking about there not the phenomena.
That silly to say everyone is just as it is to say antiques are fraud just coz some people fake them…….
Scams and con artist will work in any environment with grey area for sure. It’s good to see dabbler crack down on such individuals, for out of the dust will rise the true ones for sure and silence the call of “everyone is a scam”. Lol

I say this “no matter how much one says it’s faked … the police who are sound of mind still hire Psychics to help solve mysteries” …if they were all fakes they wouldn’t bother to use this practice and that my fellow vampire raver’s is a fact.



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dabbler
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18:51:02 Oct 01 2008
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I think the matter of fact way supporters of such thing address the topic is insulting to people with the capacity for critical thinking. I have to state though not hearing someone say, "Well people just need to keep an open mind.", is refreshing for once.

The whole topic is antique actually, the only reason it came back around is because of such shows as "Medium" which makes it a fad cycle, fodder for the creativity of media. Fodder for believers to bolster their empty misplaced faith against. Exposed time and again for what it is. Why the "hostile tone"? Have those that support such claims of ligitamacy bothered to read a single case report regarding crushed families, victims of these vultures? All psychics are based on parlor tricks, for entertainment purposes, how much clearer can it be put? Until the "field" does something to prove otherwise (I am not alone in my confidence that they never will) .



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dabbler
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18:52:28 Oct 01 2008
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BTW I am still waiting for one case to be posted, where a psychic detective has uncovered a lead in any case.. ... ... ... and waiting ... ... ...
...
...
and waiting..



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lavisbre
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19:19:36 Oct 01 2008
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I for one don’t have the answer you ask for lol

Do you mean that TV shows of this nature are based on urban myths?
Are you telling me no police have ever used a psychic to solve a case?



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dabbler
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19:30:33 Oct 01 2008
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Correct I am convinced that they are frauds, and dangerous frauds as well. I could fill this thread with cases off this type of fraud. It is fueled by the mediums that step out of the Entertainment field of mystic matters to claim application in actual fields. At one time before advancements in forensics the psychis drew the interest from police forces, they sometimes gave credit to such people, (as I mentioned) to avoid exposing the actual source. The deception of those that practice this is sicking actually it is grosser then pretending to have contact with a deceased soul.



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MysticalChild
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19:43:12 Oct 01 2008
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i am of the same opinion as dabbler
i once thought highly of such people but i heard other stories like the one he mentioned.

i never thought of using them as a cover for where the real information came from, like a protection, but it certainly makes a lot of sense.

i just don't believe anymore what if these were real psychics they wouldn't have to work so hard to make themselves look right

intuition plays the biggest part in the act



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dabbler
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19:50:27 Oct 01 2008
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Sources are a value as well, if a so called psychic lives near a detectives wife they are low enough to "pump the wife for info, these people dig in garbages for info that can build their appearance.



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LadyBloodMoon
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20:05:40 Oct 01 2008
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I think it is a good thing that police have the option to ask a psychic for help. They can help when everything else has failed, and usually find the person or place police are looking for.



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dabbler
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20:23:36 Oct 01 2008
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Usually.. please provide one case. I am interested in reading such a thing.



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Undervampsgaze
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00:03:14 Oct 02 2008
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If the police to to them for help then they must truly believe them and if the case gets solved then isn't that the good thing.



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Erinyes
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00:08:41 Oct 02 2008
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i think psychi detectives can be effective in solving a case,just because they are psychics does not mean they dont use common sense and don't look for clues as a regular detective does i just think they use their exte senses to be able to get more in tune to what hapened and sometimes walk in the victums shoes if you will



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dabbler
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00:12:06 Oct 02 2008
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as well as dig in the trash of the police stations. I should post that.. where are all the links to cases solved by PD?



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Erinyes
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00:20:27 Oct 02 2008
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i say whatever works use it ;)
as long as a case is solved thats all that matters and if it takes digging in the trash then by all means do it.



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dabbler
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00:21:26 Oct 02 2008
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So in no way do you feel for people that are exploited and hood winked by these vultures?



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Erinyes
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00:24:43 Oct 02 2008
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of course but if a crime gets solved then i am all for it especially if it solves a rape or murder crime.



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Kimberley
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00:26:25 Oct 02 2008
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well i do beleive
but there are alotta fakes out there
stating the obvious n saying they have powers
i dont doubt that some people can do it tho



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dabbler
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00:32:08 Oct 02 2008
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Then you are a sucker. Plan and simple, you allow your beliefs to blind you. Your "open minds" are cluttered with mystic dust. why can you not simple Google, Psychic breaks major case?



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DarkTone
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00:41:39 Oct 02 2008
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I think Psychic detectives are con-artists and nothing more.



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dabbler
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00:57:38 Oct 02 2008
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Retrofitting

But what about testimonials from experienced homicide detectives who have actually used psychics? Most reported successes appear to be like the one that a New Jersey police captain attributed the late Dorothy Allison. Her predictions "were difficult to verify when initially given," he said. "The accuracy usually could not be verified until the investigation had come to a conclusion." Indeed, this after-the-fact matching--known as "retrofitting"--is the secret behind most alleged psychic successes. For example, the statement, "I see water and the number seven," would be a safe offering in almost any case. After all the facts are in, it will be unusual if there is not some stream, body of water, or other source that cannot somehow be associated with the case. As to the number seven, that can later be associated with a distance, a highway, the number of people in a search party, part of a license plate number, or any of countless other possible interpretations. Many experienced police officers have fallen for the retrofitting trick.

Other explanations for psychics' reputed successes include the following:

Some psychics exaggerate their successes, even claiming positive results in cases that were failures or that never even existed.
Psychics may use ordinary means of obtaining information which they then present as having been psychically obtained. For example, psychics have been accused of impersonating police and even of bribery of police officers in order to gain information. In one instance the psychic, unknown to a detective, had actually been briefed on the case by others. Shrewd psychics can brief themselves by studying newspaper files or area maps, and some make use of the fortune teller's' techniques of "cold reading" (a technique in which the psychic fishes for information while watching the listener for reactions that suggest correctness or error).
Another potential explanation for psychics' apparent successes is faulty recollection of what was actually said. The fallibility of memory is well known, and many stories of psychic success get better as they are told and retold.
Many psychics deal in vague generalities: for example one psychic reported perceiving "the names 'John' or 'Joseph' or something like that."
And there are social and psychological factors that may influence people to accept the accuracy of information. Obviously their own belief system will have an effect.
These factors combined with the ever-present techniques of retrofitting can make a "psychic" of almost anyone. The result is like painting the bulls eye around the arrow after it has been shot. Some credulous police officers even help the psychic in the reinterpretation necessary to convert a failure into an apparent "hit." For example, in one case when there was no nearby church as had been predicted, property owned by a church was counted as fitting the criterion.

Here's a question would you place your families saving on a hint from a psychic financier? A simple question, he even presents some references to you. All of which say he was some what accurate.



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TepesEnigma
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01:27:05 Oct 02 2008
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much like a fortune cookie or a horoscope, open to interprution



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dabbler
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01:28:51 Oct 02 2008
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Dude my fortune cookie just told me you would say that.. eerie.. are you as ASTONISHED as I am? I want to be Astonished with you.. hehe



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dabbler
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02:32:39 Oct 02 2008
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http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Psychic_Detectives

This is a real eye opener, it even has a case that would almost make a case for those that belief such things.



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TepesEnigma
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05:01:17 Oct 02 2008
Read 959 times

My psychic detective told me, that your fortune cookie would say that. I to am astonished. Seriously, I am a doubting thomas. I have to see/experiance something to beleive. I look hard, but so far, no paranormal experiance of any kind.



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dabbler
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05:13:25 Oct 02 2008
Read 957 times

Yet I bet you can admit to being caught up in some good presentations. Or seen something that gave you a pause. My meta Guide told me to say that.. I sense that it is so..



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Beastt17
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10:54:20 Oct 02 2008
Read 949 times

I'm a little concerned about people who simply think it's yet another avenue, but fail to recognize the potential for damage. What if the supposed psychic gives police tips which sends them off on the proverbial "wild-goose chase", wasting valuable time and resources?

I'm also concerned that some see the use of psychics as confirmation from an accepted authority (police), that such tactics are known to work or have a good record of success. That's not why police sometimes use psychics.

They do so to avoid being accused of not employing every possible means by which to solve a case. If you bring in a psychic despite your own disbelief and despite the obviously dismal history of psychics in police cases, no one can say you didn't at least try. But if you refuse and a family's kidnapped baby is later found dead, the likelihood that a wrongful death suit will be filed against the police agency is enormous.

Use of psychics by police is often little more than a tactic to avoid later accusations and civil litigation against the department and department heads. So please don't fall for the political tactic and assume that just because police bring in a psychic, that it means the police believe the psychic will help to solve the case.

Let's assume a child is missing and the family suspects the child was kidnapped. They happen to believe in psychics so they press the Chief of Police to bring in a psychic. He can tell them no. He's the Chief.

So let's assume he refuses and three days later the body of the dead child is found. You'll see this headline in the morning paper;

"POLICE CHIEF REFUSES TO USE HELP FROM PSYCHIC; CHILD FOUND DEAD!"

Anyone here want to be that police chief?
---

Now let's run the scenario again but this time the Police Chief agrees to bring a proclaimed psychic in on the case, despite the fact that he knows psychics have a tragically dismal record in helping to solve the crime.

The headline now reads;

"POLICE EXHAUST ALL POSSIBLE AVENUES BUT TO NO AVAIL."
---

If you misread what is being done, you're simply falling for the political ploy. By enlisting the help of a psychic, the Chief isn't giving a nod of confidence to the abilities of psychics. He's avoiding committing career suicide.

In the first scenario where psychics aren't brought in on the case, other city officials are going to be quick to jump ship. They want to appear as though they disapproved of the decision to keep psychics out. They'll be among the first to want to axe the Chief in their attempt to emerge unscathed from the imminent media frenzy, Nothing that chief can say will save him from the public outcry. Anyone in the city administration who joins in the public's outcry becomes a hero. The chief becomes unemployed and unemployable.

Find a Police Chief who doesn't recognize the dramatic failure of psychics to actually aid police and I'll show you a Police Chief who hasn't done the homework his job requires. Show me one who understands the personal impact he'll endure for the decisions he makes, and I'll show you a Police Chief who can have his department walk all over your rights and keep you thinking he's doing you a favor.



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DemonicVampireDragon
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13:29:56 Oct 02 2008
Read 945 times

i think there all fake because they all want you to think they have this power but they dont



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Ravena
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15:03:57 Oct 02 2008
Read 941 times

They aren't much help they read the case and just re-word it to make them think that they know what their doing it's stupid



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ThisTimeImperfect
ThisTimeImperfect

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20:56:13 Oct 02 2008
Read 935 times

They kinda piss me off cause the ones I have seen give the families of the victims so much false hope. I have yet to see one who actually knows what they are talking about. They all make up some bullshit that I could make up myself. Now I am not going to say that they are all shit just that I would really like to hear of one who knew what the hell they were talking about.



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DarkTone
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21:05:12 Oct 02 2008
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They are con-artists in the way that they want your attention, your praise, and your money and anyone elses. They want to feel special so they point out the obvious or ask questions that obviously have an answer..... Like..... Does anyone here know someone named John??? More than likely someone is going to say yes.... Just showing its easy to guess easy things which is what they do...



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DarkTone
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21:06:56 Oct 02 2008
Read 931 times

Actually, I need to correct myself.... There maybe a few real Psychic detectives out there, but most claiming to be one are con-artists.



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DarkAngelsCurse
DarkAngelsCurse
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23:23:05 Oct 02 2008
Read 927 times

What, police using psychics?? And these crazy people are suppose to be catching crazy people..............OK..



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SatanKimi17
SatanKimi17
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08:08:29 Oct 03 2008
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I think if it helps a case to be solved then more power to them!



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Reddarkice
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20:59:19 Oct 03 2008
Read 909 times

I say if it works and helps use it



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FacelessUnknown
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21:07:05 Oct 03 2008
Read 906 times

I am also very skeptic that these "Psychic's" help very much. I guess its just as easy to try and predict the future accurately. All there doing is letting there own imagenation tell them what COULD have happend. And sometimes, there imagenation might be right. Doesnt make them Psychic.



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Sinora
Sinora
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23:49:41 Oct 03 2008
Read 902 times

I don't know anyone who calls themsleves a psychic detective personally.

My only information comes from books and newspaper reports.

Has anyone actually called a police department and asked questions ?

If not I would think that would be a good place to start.



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dabbler
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00:19:55 Oct 04 2008
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I can give you links to transcripts from Actual Police detectives regarding Psychic Detectives



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Beastt17
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01:24:38 Oct 04 2008
Read 898 times

Sinora,

I work in a police department. I've worked there for nearly 27-years now. It's a smaller department so we don't have a lot of unsolved headline-making crime. We've called in a psychic on just one case so far, a homicide. The information received from the psychic was useless and fruitless. The case remains unsolved so I can't offer you any details.

I realize that a single case offers nothing for statistical analysis, but I can tell you about the political motivations behind resorting to such methods. In fact, it would be interesting to see what percentage of cases where a psychic was enlisted involved family members who were strong proponents of the supposed validity to psychic claims, and compare that to how rarely such people are asked to help when family members don't suggest themselves to hold any belief in the proclaimed ability of psychics.

I don't have that information but I'm willing to bet that you'd find that in the vast majority of cases where psychics are involved by police, the family members made it known that they had a strong belief in the supposed powers of psychics. I think it's safe to say that in the vast majority of cases, it's a political ploy to appease family members, not a vote of faith by the departments involved.

First rule of politics; make yourself appear to be giving people what they want. Never tell them they're wrong no matter how solidly you can back the statement.



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Sinora
Sinora
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02:16:17 Oct 04 2008
Read 894 times

Yes, I understand what your saying, but it's frustrating to know so little about the figures.

I'm in the UK, if I get time this weekend I'll see if I can send an e-mail to my area HQ, I'll let you know if I get any reply.



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Nicnic
Nicnic

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12:34:52 Oct 04 2008
Read 887 times

Psychic detectives=Psychology majors wearing mood rings and burning incense who have been promised a cushy job if they "pull this off".



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Anise
Anise
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12:36:42 Oct 04 2008
Read 884 times

Raggy, wheres Rilma!

No more donuts, just more Scooby Snacks and foot longs.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by TheRat on Aug 31 2010  •

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