The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

The large numbers of exposed fraudulent activity from people professing
To be psychic is phenomenal.

Regulations are placed to prevent such practices, those who accept regulation (in the States those that do readings advertise as Novelty)
Do a modest (side) business.

There are still those who operate under clinical, and spiritual pretenses.

How do you view current regulation of practice in your
Country, or state?


How should the community answer to the questions of fraud, and abuse?

Psychic means reated to psych. even phd is given as philosophy of the subject, it too psychic. my meditation is psychic activity, so I won't comment on it.

Dabbler my question to you knowing that you do not believe such practice to be a "real" phenomena is this.... How can we say who really can or cant do such things. I mean who are we to judge who has said gift and who is indeed a fraud. Noting yeh I agree there are many frauds in the world which gives the real gifted individuals a bad name, but I myself do know one and can assure you that he is indeed good at what he does and it has been actually proven, but he doesn't do readings, palmistry and such nor does he charge for services. The point of bringing him into the post is this... how can we prove who is fraud and who is indubitable?

I'm not looking to pick any sort of fight with anyone I just simply am curious for a answer to the inquiry.

There really isn't much we can do to disprove a person's claimed ability. I've met people with true ability (my grandmother among them) and I've met people who I don't think could be anything but frauds. There is an issue with reagulation of these people though. How long was Miss Cleo allowed to go around scamming people (she might be still, I stopped following that story a long time ago) by randomly calling some person's number and feeding them some crap, then the poor sap would turn around and find that they'd been charged for her 'services' that were phony and unsolicited. Then you've got the people like my grandmother, a few people come to her by reference and she does charge a fee for her services but doesn't really run a business off of it. There are lots of other types but I'm not going to break them all down. The point is, until someone is proven false, how right are we to go around saying who can and can't practice and what title they can practice under? Since it's so hard to say for certain whether a person is the real deal or not, especially if you take into account people who do not accept that this kind of thing is possible, we can't really set a standard. In the end I think it should be left to each individual as to whether or not to seek the services of these people and to decide whether they're fake. Just don't let them get away with going around playing con games.

Thank you placidchaos you helped make my point. It's not up to us to judge, but I can say that in my experiences... the real psychics don't advertise it and in some cases may not charge for the service, some will to help make a living in hard times however if they have regulars but as I said most wont make an advertisement of themselves.

That is why it would be so hard to attempt to make it a case of fraud in these days and no matter true or false if it is their religious practice they are in some degree protected by the constitution....

Basically in my eyes here's the deal..... If a person falls for the scam..... is it really anyone's fault other then their own? We all have the ability to choose and think for ourselves and if someone doesn't stop to think (no matter their circumstance) that there is the possibility of being scammed.... then well to be frank its their own fault. Not trying to be rude but at the end of the day its the cold truth.

It is performance, showmanship the only thing that differers is pretense, and application. People that book performers that have social intersction talent
Or practicing mentalist do the same phenomenal routines. Without mystic pretenses. In small community circles I know their is one person that people know as the neighor Tinker.

I seek no debate here either. Those most offended by the suggestion of clearer written consumer guides are likely to be operating under pretense.

This is not a forum of whether or not psychic phenomena is real, it is for regulation of what appears to be psychic ability, and how to protect the consumer, and performers alike.

The problem is that there is no standard set because not enough people agree on these things one way or the other. I think as far as legal regulations are concerned that they shouldn't extend past the business end of it, anything further should be up to indivduals and perhaps the community in which the person is choosing to operate.

I do understand what you are saying Dabbler but I think the questions do go hand in hand.... I mean how can one find a protection for the consumer without the knowledge of that is or isn't false?

I think what I'm getting at is this.... There is no real way to protect the consumer other then the consumer truly considering the consequences prior to the purchase... That is a risk we all take every time we shop. Same principle really... We as consumers go out and see a new product and think to ourselves... oh wow! Then we take a risk when we purchase it as to if it will work once we get it home. I can think of many foolish purchases I myself have made... I think its the same when it comes to services.

I mean if you call a cleaning service, do you not stand the chance of being robbed even if its a small item that you probably wouldn't even notice missing? I understand one is less noticeable then the other but same basic principle at hand.

CuRsEd has said I think: consumer responsibilty.

Performers do the same thing through tricks that psychics claim to do with mystic empowerment, magicians posing as telekinetics
Enrolled in a study and have fooled para psycologist.

Do it I am confident that what a Mentalist can perform, can be used by unscrupulous people to suspend peoples financial reasoning. The fact that such people claim to have a spiritual power, and yet need other sources ( "clients") to pay large sums of money in odd no contract ways sets off bells and whistles, the fact that the popular prscticers write books and gain from publish royalties, yet still charge 600 dollars a session. While claiming to be a Ministry.. More red flags.

*Chuckles* Well, here in New Orleans all the readers need is a permit for their work really. But, if they ask only for donations then they do not need the permits. Privately owned business's catering to the genre do need license as well as permits of course.

one question I ask psychic co-op workers is how do they know another person is gifted? They usually reply they just know, then will trash practices outside their own.

I do agree Dabbler. It is shocking that people do such things.... and yes perhaps there should be a way of stopping such things, but the said truth that I think of is this.... Is there truly a way of stopping them? Can anyone really make a law against it that would hold in congress.?

In England they have a restriction against claiming to bring forth spirits, and theft by pretense.

In America we regulate readers as Entertainment, Those who declare their abilities to be other then performance found a loop hole in pending legal
Gaps, those gaps are closing, because the undisputable evidence is that that area of the practice is producing the highest rate of fraud.

I shall always have great difficulty with those here who so often (as seen in the replies above) make what seem to me ridiculous comments about claimed psychics such as "who are we to judge?" and "how can we know if they're real?"

Who are we to judge? Are you serious?! Is intelligence and common sense really that foreign to you people?!

You people watch a magician pull a rabbit out of his hat and think he must have the power of teleportation! You see him pull your card from the deck and think he actually must be telepathic! You see him saw a lady in half... and think he must have the power over life and death! You see him make someone disappear and believe he must have access to unseen dimensions!

Where IS your brain, people?!

How can you know if it's real?! Are you all that desperate to believe in something that you'll gladly believe in anything and everything that anyone claims?! Thank heaven for us all that magicians don't claim to be "psychics" in actual possession of the powers you so desperately desire to believe in. Thank heaven magicians, at least, admit that their illusions are just that... illusions! Otherwise your own ignorance and brainless gullibility would have you clamoring to revere, if not worship, them as GODS! ... just as also did our primitive and ignorant ancestors when meeting envoys from more advanced civilizations. Of course, magicians aren't more advanced or more powerful than the rest of us... they simply have learned the tricks to decieve and delude. And so also have psychics!

The difference is, magicians admit they are performing illusions and tricks while psychics, who feed off of the gullibility so evident here, do not.

Ambiquity in pyschic regulation?! LOL There are already plenty of laws against fraud, which cover the lot of psychic chicanery right there! As for the rest of it... well, you can't regulate gullibility, now can you?

As Ron White stated so eloquently: "You can't fix... stupid!"


And for all those now gasping in outrage at my remarks... ask yourselves this simple question: If there were any true psychics out there, why hasn't a single one of them stepped forward and won James Randi's Million-Dollar Psychic Challenge? Hmmm?!

Grow a brain, people... please!


- Upir'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Alpha

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7354089.stm

Found this relating to the UK

UpirLikhyj You would do good to not flame others opinions in the forums. To call anyone stupid for their opinions and beliefs is not only rude but not meant for forums.

It is fine if you yourself do not personally believe in something, but that gives you no right to judge and criticize others for theirs.

My advice... watch Bambi. It would suit you to learn manors and kindness towards fellow man.

While his post was rather abrasive, his points are still valid. It is perfectly easy to test whether or not a psychic is for real. The fact still stands that NEVER has a psychic EVER undergone testing and proven that they have some sort of genuine ability. Who are we to judge their abilities? We're the people who are potentially paying hard-earned money for a service. Is it not too much to expect that a service we pay for be tested and verified? If someone you know has what you believe to be genuine psychic ability, then why, pray tell, have they not accepted the Randi challenge? Seems easy enough, and they'd get a quick million bucks!

David Blaine is psychic he is not mere street showman, he is beyond common peepal having uncomon ability and meditation.

Every person more or less psychic, in the world, knowing or not knowingly.

Venum, your posts are irrelevant here. What does David Blaine's supposed (aka nonexistent) psychic ability have to do with the regulation of reputed psychics?

And as I stated... all OPINIONS are welcome... but no need for rudeness and name calling. We can all share our inputs and play nice at the same time.

I for one can say that I DO know a psychic... we've tested him MANY times... and he never comes off wrong, but I for one have never even heard of this challenge.... besides that..... what if not all people wish to expose themselves to the ENTIRE world.... I know I wouldn't. I can assure you and there are others including one unnamed person on this sight that would vouch for this person....

What good is money if you have people always pestering you and poking at you..... besides that...... he doesn't charge money for anything he does.

I am not trying to change your minds on what you believe, just simply stating what I believe and what Ive seen and trust.... and you know what...... thats good enough for me.

Opinions may be welcome, but when someone challenges it, they're not being rude. Name-calling, I agree, is going too far, but if someone isn't willing to back up their opinion to someone who is skeptical, then the problem lies with THEM, not the skeptic.

Personal anecdotes aside, what was the nature of this 'testing', and why weren't the findings published in a peer-reviewed journal? If something so ground-breaking was verified conclusively, it would shake the foundations of modern science. Yet we still hear nothing about these supposed psychics.

Now that you know about the Randi challenge, perhaps your friend would like to try for a quick million? If they have the capability to help thousands of people, why are they refusing to be shown to the world? Psychics are always claiming to be legit, but they're NEVER willing to provide a shred of EVIDENCE to back up their claims. You can't tell me that every psychic is too selfish to want to share their talents with the world.

That person claiming psychic abitity caters to a small circle of believers no doubt. Personal observations of demonstrations are required by believers
The performer, whether under pretense of mystic powers, or as an illusionist
Is the person that convinces the audience through showmanship. How convincing are Mentalist? Yet a person can walk out of a mentalist performance, and into a parlor , and pay a fortune ( no pun intended), for the same trivial "reading", how the person receives that, is relevent to their
Grief/financial situation/relationship security.. Social Circle mediums being the more convincing in the field, followed by the church type mediums ( speaking as a one time usher for such a "sacrified" church that has since been investigated and found guilty for numerous violations in practice.

The fact that police have bunko squads for such common violations
Is waved off by believers with " well not all psychics are bogus, some don't
even charge.." rhetoric, can belivers blame skeptics for the concern?

Whould it not be reasonable to expect a "gifted psychic" to be more accurate then a performance Mentalist?

At least presenting a guide line for practice. The larger scale readers can consider.

I didn't say it was brain surgery. lol.

I said we've tested him....... Now... online it would be pretty impossible to prove anything to you...... BUT if you would like to travel.... come on over... Ill introduce you. lol. Heres the thing....... Not everyone in the world wants to be someones television freak... Personally... and its just me but I have more respect for the individual that chooses to be silent.... Thing is....... I don't see it as helping someone by giving them there future..... If you knew you're future wouldn't you want to constantly alter it... That seems more harmful then helpful.

CTD -

As La6Muerte66 stated so eloquently, stating opinions does not make one immune from having those opinions challenged with differing opinions. And there is a huge difference between challenging others' opinions using logical argument in countering and/or demonstrating the illogic/fallacies inherent of the opinion being challenged... and simply insulting someone specifically (ad hominem). What I did was the former... not the latter. Nor did I call anyone "stupid." I, instead, used a Ron White quote to illustrate the fact that gullibility (like stupidity) cannot be either regulated or fixed. And that point was a statement of fact and not directed specifically at any one person.

Anyone who truly believes they are incapable of judging whether claimed supernatural or paranormal "powers" are real or not and, thus, justifying if not defending any and all who choose to make such claims is to reveal themselves as being quite... gullible. Sorry... but that is pretty much the definition of gullibility. If you take offense to that, that is not my fault. Blame the dictionary; I'm simply stating that the scenario matches the definition. Anyone who sincerely states "who are we to judge?" is exactly the gullible sort of person that con-men, charlatan, and frauds prey upon. And the most dangerous of all of these are... psychics. Why? Simply because (as stated in the forum topic here) there are no real "regulations" they have to concern themselves with; no real RESULTS that they must produce. And that... frankly... is scary as hell.


- Upir'

No one's asking that your friend be paraded around on TV. Just that he/she submit his/herself to scientific examination. These things can be done anonymously, you know. Even if I had met your friend, what could be the outcome? He/she reads my future, and then I expect it to happen? If, even by chance, it did come true, who's to say it wasn't a self-fulfilling prophecy? If you expect something to happen, then more often than not (provided it's reasonable to expect), it will happen.

Now, there's an issue I've always had with prophecy. If something is foretold to happen, then it will happen regardless of what you do to prevent it. That's the whole idea behind prophecy in the first place. If it weren't immutable, then what's so special about it? It's reduced to telling someone "If you continue to do this, then this will happen," which only takes a bit of reasoning to figure out. No psychic ability required. Prophecy is supposed to predict something that WILL happen, not something that CAN happen.

I never said he told the future you are speaking of Precognition....... He tells the past...... post cognition Doesn't have to know a thing about the place, or people he meets..... but he can get their pasts, their presents... and things that are going on in their lives.......

Now... as far as being subjected to scientific testing.... LOL.. I'm sorry but not even I would do that. Why should someone be subjected to being a lab experiment. Thats all round a cruel suggestion at least to me it is.....

Me personally.... no.. I would never undergo scientific experiments to simply appease the doubters in the world. Thats just absurd... at the end of the day..... others opinions and judgments on yourself.... they are totally irrelevant... if you yourself know you can do something....... and you choose to show it to a few trusted friends..... thats your right, and if you're ok with the non believers in the world throwing slanderous comments your way and not feeling compelled to "prove yourself"... well you know what... you've my utmost respect.

Now I am not saying that this means their aren't fakes and frauds in the world... I am not saying that by any means at all because there are tons.... Sadly its true in all fields not just this one.....

Who said it was just to appease a few doubters? By all means, do it in the name of science! Why do all psychics refuse testing when success would change our entire understanding of physics? It's selfish not to do so. If given the choice to demonstrate for the world, even anonymously, that psychic phenomena do exist, and can be tested and studied, I'd be first in line to do so. it would be a giant leap forward in our understanding of reality. Yet no one has ever stepped forward and demonstrated that this is the case. Not. Once. If your friend has the ability to show science something that it is missing, then he/she is holding back a gift that could be serving a much greater good, and they should be well aware of this.

I really need to start finishing my thoughts before I post...

If someone has a hidden ability, and they ONLY choose to share it with a few friends, it essentially amounts to a person performing parlor tricks. It's an oddity at best when used at this level. Why is this deserving of respect? If someone doubts you, PROVE THEM WRONG. It's selfish and petty to keep a gift like that to oneself, when it could be used on a grander scale to help many people in dire need of it.

As far as regulating this..well they do in a sense that it has to be filed under entertainment.And you know,this is rediculous,because if someone is dead on everytime and all that good stuff,and is a true psychic,I feel they would be a bit selfish..no REALLY selfish in not letting the world have a closer look..not to proove to the unbelievers persey,but how about giving the believers a little something. Humanity a little something.To proove once and for all to themselves even.What would be so wrong in prooving it exsists? It would certainly end debates like this,and also give a guidelines for any kind fo regulation..because right now there is absoloutely nothing to go on..how can it even be regulated.

To each their own. But seems to me that would have to be a very serious life staking surgical procedure... and sometimes the risk of death isn't worth it.... what good is a persons brain once they cant use it really...... ok... so someone can study it... and be like...... oh ok... but if the person lives theres years more to learn from.... I mean ... sure maybe donate the brain once the person has passed on...... that I could see.... I'm just against testing in that manner... then again... I don't agree with animal testing either sooooo once again just a mere difference in opinion...

Now.. the more Ive read into this forum the more Ive noticed that we all myself included have strayed from the topic/question of the thread... lets find our way back there please. Thank you.

Consumer interest as mentioned by LaMuartr, if psychics are concerned about people misrepresenting what they consider a metaphysical ability
Of mind, interacting with other minds, spirits, or even objects, or cosmic
Micro waves..then why not educate potential audiences/consumers/ sitter/ congratent. Separating the practice, from the illusion.

I often ask as a moderator in debate, what do both sides agree on.

I am not understanding why weather or not psychic, and metaphysical
Claims are valid, has anything to do with regulation?

If we break down the degree of the practice.

Presented as: clinical use.

Religious/spiritual ritual.

Entertainment, and Social Craft

Then criminal and fraudulent, because if gifted exist
And are able to do what is claimed not all gift are honorable.

where do we go from here?

Case by Case, hidden camera reviews of practices?

No,Darkness,I dont feel it has to be like that to study this..but anyway,as far as regulation..you simply cant ,other than how it already has been.Nothing solid to go on,therefore there are no baselines.And since no one seems to want to contribute to even prooving its exsistance,well hell,it might never be anything other than scam and entertainment..to the public eye of course.
And we do judge..as much as everyone seems to shy away from the prospect,its done every single day of our lives..we judge everything and everyone..not harshly perhaps..but we do it.And when it comes down to the public and laws and rules,yes,we have to put ourselves into a position to judge.

The first step in deciding how something should be regulated is determining what is being regulated. Discussing whether psychic ability is entertainment only, or for the benefit of others for some reason or another is what we're getting to here.

How should the community answer to the questions of fraud, and abuse?

I feel this is exactly what we're doing here. We have yet to stray fro the topic at hand.


That being said, I'd like to continue to address your statement. Once again, who said that someone would examine your friend's brain? Firstly, they would have to test whether or not there is true post-cognition really happening. Then, they would (or should) perform a number of non-invasive scans (yes, they have those nowadays) to examine the deeper workings of the brain to possibly determine the underlying causes of this ability. There's no risk of death involved here, and I'm surprised that even came to mind...

The hidden camera reviews already exist, Operation SLUG.

How about, Buyer Beware?

Sometimes I think people put too much burden on society to protect them from just about everything, to a point of rediculousness.

If I want to pay someone for a psychic reading, thats my business, and I should have the intelligence to know what I'm getting myself into. Its not much different from purchasing a cup of coffee. You hope it will be hot and taste like good coffee. But now, because people want to demand protection and regulation of coffee temperatures, I have to endure warning labels telling me the obvious.

Some things I can agree should be regulated, but then when we start regulating one group of people, so the other group doesnt have to use their brain, that breeds bigger even bigger problems.

December, you bring up a great point. People shouldn't have to be told the obvious. However, were it not for the mild regulations already in place, things could get out of hand rather quickly. Pretty soon you'd have every other crackpot filing for tax exemption, or people finding excuses to commit horrible acts under the guise of "spiritual guide" (of course this is just speculation). It's not quite as simple as labeling a cup of coffee as 'hot'. No one deliberately tells you that a hot cup is actually cold, but a fraud can and will tell you that they're genuine, and it's often a great deal harder to tell if they're lying or not. It's easy enough to tell whether a cup of coffee is hot by tasting it. lol.

Excellent points, La6Muerte66 and DecemberNemesis! Great observations and very important to this topic.

Additionally, La6Muerte66, I wish to thank you very much for your earlier posts in defense of my own; they were very much appreciated and, frankly, better expressed.


- Upir'

You're very welcome. Somehow, people seem to get offended when their opinions are challenged, but often have no qualms with belittling the opinions of others. As I keep saying, a discussion is not productive if it is the blind statement of opinions. People have to be able to defend their positions, or the discussion goes nowhere. Your post may have been abrasive at most, but to dismiss it entirely is rather anti-academic.

In searching for existing Code Of Ethics for psychic/medium practices
I find at best noncommiting Language.

It appears that they want to claim the gift, but not be responsible for its mis-use, This raises the question, what should be the options for a sitter that is presented insight during a reading that results in emotional
dispair, then is found to be inaccurate.. an example of this is When Sylvia told the Hornbecks Their Son was dead.. He was not dead.

La6Muerte66 and UpirLikhyj I am going to explain this once and only once then the subject will be dropped because to be frank I am tired of explaining it. I have NO issues that the post was challenged. What the issue and reprimand was for was not the opinion that UpirLikhyj gave but the manor in which he gave it.

UpirLikhyj and I messaged on this and I thought we had this all cleared up but it is apparent to me that it is obviously not to all.

UpirLikhyj's post was not disregarded and his opinion is just as valued as the others posted.

I am not sure why more then what is there is being put into this but I grow quite weary of it. I simply requested that in the future when posting it is not in a manner in which makes others feel as if they are being belittled and called ignorant. That was the opinion of many who read his post and I spoke with other dominars who felt the posts approach to be abrasive as well.

It is all fine when a challenge is made on a post and welcomed even if the discussion so sees fit, but this can be done in a much more pleasant way. That is what I gave the reprimand for...... NOT for his opinion but for the harsh tone of his post.

Furthermore yes it did happen to be my post that he attacked and I had no issues with that because thats the joys of debates that involve opinions. HOWEVER that had nothing to do with my post there after. My response to his post would have remained the same no matter who's post UpirLikhyj had been challenging.

I do hope this has cleared any confusion up and as far as in this thread goes it is to be dropped from this point on and taken to messages. If you are still in question as far as what happened feel free to message me on it, but no more in the thread is the issue to be brought up because it is totally off topic of Dabbler's question.

Please carry on and with the topic and play nice all.

Thank you,
~CTD

I would like to bring the topic of how to address those who are scammed by people claiming psychic gifts.. surly they all "Don't deserve what they experience, while seeking spiritual comfirmation about personal matters of their life.

dabbler -

As a prior poster here stated well, it is not the government's job to protect people from their own gullibility. If a psychic is going to claim to be able to predict the future, and someone is willing to believe him/her, how can the government take action against the psychic for the other person's unfounded belief?

I guess what I'm asking is, at what point is each of us going to start taking responsibility for what it is WE each choose to believe?


- Upir'

Is it a matter of belief?

Those who seek psychic services are paying for demonstrations, that demostration either convinces the observer or not, perhaps if Psychics collected after a reading? I actually ask this very question to a professed mystical diviner, he replied after contemplating, "how can I be sure they will just stiff me?"

Rather telling of his confidence in reading people..

lol. Good point, dabbler. If the psychic is any good at reading an individual, they should know beforehand whether they would be stiffed.

La6Muerte66 -

ROFL !!!

A wonderful use of simple logic... I love it.

While I have heard psychics say that they cannot use their "gifts" for personal benefit (e.g., picking lottery numbers, buying and sellings stocks, bonds, etc.), yet do not "professional" psychics market those very supposed "gifts" so as to directly benefit themselves monetarily?

Again... when just a bit of logic and reason are applied to any question, it is not amazing what we can indded discern for ourselves?


- Upir'

That's beside the question of why they need to ask a person's name and/or phone number before doing a reading. I would think these are easy enough to figure out for someone who's got psychic ability...

Good point but that would be a method, and practice thread.

who knew psychic abilities were so abundant! sure lets regulate it and issue licenses to those with sufficient proof. and a million bucks.

You can't regulate bullshit.

Come on, people. There's no such things as psychic abilities. There isn't. IF there was, much like supernatural creatures of any kind, it would be impossible to hide, and simple to prove.

I can prove the existence of a car, or ice cream, or a bird. You cannot prove psychic abilities because absolutely NO ONE has been able to utilize them in a clinical setting, even once.

That should tell you something.

So don't worry about regulation until it stops being fantasy.

And if anyone wants to disagree, go ahead and contact me on Mail. I would LOVE to rip your 'proof' to shreds.

Tiny, delicious shreds.

That I would then eat.

Mmm.

Even if it is entirely 100% bullshit, we still have to worry about regulating it as long as people believe in it.

Why don't those who claim mystic sources drop the pretense, and acknowledge that it is performance? They lack the showmanship, to present themselves as Mentalist, plus there is more competition in the performance
Field. Performers ( with a few exceptions) don't write psuodo "divinly" inspired books, that allude to the consumer abtaining the same "gift" that the author (usually a ghost writter, no pun intended).

So once the drop the pretense, they have explaining to do, and then get a productive job, and stop making money of others basic belief in an after life.

People like Sylvia Browne will never drop the pretense, because they're making so much money already. There's no competition in the 'psychic' field, and as long as you keep publishing books every year or so, you have a steady income of millions of dollars a year.

The way she files is the key, she like Praag and them, use secondary sources to manipulate.. Err arrange her financies, they firmly state she makes no money off of here 600 dollar phone readings.. Then who does? Praag states, "I only make money off my books." So his readings are book signing appearances.. Even their business practices are veiled.

At one time back before it was still not clear what was being passed off as PSI/medium ability, it was suggested that a proclaimed psychic do sittings with other professed psychics, to validate the claim, this started a seminar craze. People started getting roped off by Travel Junkets, disguised as Spiritualist/ Occult workshops. Those have since been self complient regulated by the more dominate host.


Then it comes to the question can a "gift" that one person claims is birth rite.. Be taught?

As Sylvia put it on Larry King Live, if someone isn't born with the gift, then they can't learn it. Of course, other supposed psychics will tell you everyone has the potential, but some are born with inherent gifts. There's no regularity in how one acquires these abilities. They'll make up whatever they think the audience will believe.

That is another shifty subject, even among those in psychic trade take sides on that issue, I have seen such debates turn to shoving matches, between guest mediums, and Center based mediums. Denouncments are common as well.

Thank you La6Muerte66

As for crackpots filing for tax exemptions, that already goes on. "Crackpots" have been been supporting themselves since the dawn of time by claiming all sorts of things, and for as many gullible believers victimized, there were countless numbers from all over the world, from several specific points of time, brutalized and murdered, as well as robbed, because of the various priest classes.

As for psychic talents themselves, it is true they do not lend themselves to scientific study very well. But to dismiss them outright might be a bit hasty. To say, 'Well if this person is psychic" they should know my name without me saying it", that's like saying "well this person is a doctor, so he should never lose a patient".

Nothing is absolute. The five senses themselves are not infallible, so why would you expect psychic ability to be infallible? Maybe because we use one set of senses a great deal more just makes them more reliable, but even they arent 100 percent.

Frauds will spend a great deal of time trying to convince you they are genuine. Yes I know. And if you know what to look for, you will spot them usually within half an hour. It's not hard at all.

As for the cup of coffee analogy...what I am trying to say is, I dont need to be told the coffee is hot or cold. I am capable of finding that out on my own, and if I burn my mouth in the process, I know it's my own fault, nobody else's.

To say that someone needs protecting is to imply they are weak. To raise an entire society to believe it needs protecting is to create a weak society that will be predated upon by it's own protectors. Think about that.

Moderatly their are laws in place for practice, these laws, are in place because of intent for practice, those that defraud a consumer a crime ( just as defrauding an innkeeper). If a person seeking social assurance in settling
Grief and mourning, or a group gathers to delve in "mysterious" past times. That is a Sociogeist it "exist" in a metamorphic metaphor/ meta verse.

You find yourself convinced that an illusionist hands dematetisluzed and passed through the hand cuffs, then you consider it a trick, a Mentalist tells you personal information, perhaps you overlooked the sneaky reaction of you
Date for the show. We know more about each other by degree then you know. Social Adaptation, in social application.

The statement that psychics do not "lend themselves to scientific study" is quite an understatement, to be kind. Psychics not only do not "lend themselves" to any such, they pointedly avoid them like the plague and always have (e.g., no one willing to win what would be an easy One Million Dollars from James Randi were any of their psychic skills real). Thus, psychics know quite well that their claims cannot withstand actual scrutiny.

They are "entertainers" at best, and con artists, charlatans, and frauds at worst.

Of course, given these common sense facts, anyone still willing to give such "entertainers" their money ought to be free to do so... and suffer the consequences thereof free from government intervention or regulation. Caveat Emptor always.


- Upir'

In the Spiritualist position ( if one accepts that such a gift/ ability exist) it is still evident by a mountain of filed legal cases that some with that assumed gift abuse it by applying it to exploits finances, or to promote through unknowing devoted seekers.

Where does the religion/ spiritual/ business line get drawn?

How does the Spiritualist community respond to spiritual extortion?

I know.

Have any psychics on this site ever been approached by a scientist ?.....just asking, I mean the way so many people seem to think there are so many scientists actively seeking out psychics.

Scientists wouldn't be actively seeking out psychics. It would require you to actually contact a scientist and suggest that you can prove the existence of psychic phenomena.

I was actually picking up on something that Upir wrote....along the lines of psychics avoid scientists like the plague.

As an afterthought, what qualifcations should a psychic look for in person who calls themselves a scientist ?

Are scientists regulated ?

Obviously, you'd look for someone who holds a PhD in a related field, preferably currently working for a lab/university. Scientists are regulated by peer review, among other groups, I'm sure.

As Project Alpha Shows us, Para-Psycologist ( educated in science observation through a number of fields collectivly) are not as observant as they would have their Colligues in Mainstream science believe.

A very suggested read< or you can watch the videos on Youtube about project Alpha.

Sinora, please may I request your take on a guideline for those seeking a Spiritualist Practice/Center/Church. So far I am with Cursed
those that do not charge, do not need regulation, or consumer guidelines.

How can you regulate something like this? XD
I dont like the thought of people making money off others insecuritys and need to be in contact with whatever, but what can you do? Its there word against yours XD

In the end it is best to seek out psychics, and Mediums.Who Advertise as for entertainment only, and have a set price. (and avoid arranging more "indepth readings). Or go to a reader that does not charge. Perferably one that has a long history at their location. Scams and Fraudulent readers are forced to be mobile.

Thank you all for your insight on this topic.