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In another thread, "Spirits", the idea came up of spirits being from alternate dimensions. I have created THIS thread to talk about how Quantum Theory relates to spirits/ghosts SOLEY.

[Just to let you know, I am not copying and pasting anything here]
The theory of other universes, or dimensions, was first presented by Hugh Everett the Third in 1957; his theory was called the "branching universe interpretation". " In this theory, whenever a measurement takes place, the entire universe divides as many times as there are possible outcomes of the measurement. All universes are identical except for the outcome of that measurement." This would create an infinite amount of universes, but there has not been an alternative theory....

I believe in them altough I've never been to one.However I really wish I would go or hearing someone that went to one and tell his/her expirience.

Well since I like to read about these things unfortunately I've found different answers.

In one book there was written that there are 3 dimentions.
Summerlands , Lower Realm and our universe.
Summerlands is for the 'good' spirits who achieved their goals. The lower realm is for those who didn't achieve their goals or that something in their life went wrong and have to suffer the consequences.

The Lower Realm is a hair below Earth and that's why we can see spirits.

In a site I've found that there are 4 dimentions.The one which spirits comunicate with us with the ouija board are evil entities from the 4th dimantion.

In another site I've found that there are 5 dimentions.The one for angels, the one for demons, the one for good spirits,the one for evil spirits and our universe.

Well I don't know what's true but I believe in dimentions.

ElderDaniel, that's kind of what I was thinking.
deathnitegrl, I'm sorry but that's not even CLOSE to what I was thinking.

If anyone here has read TIMELINE (NOT seen the movie), then you'll kind of know what I'm thinking.

Chuckles.. the spirits I know of, are the ones that make me want to do the Quantum leap. *jig jig jig*

i'd heared that there is some relation ship b/w phisics n spirits
n at some places they are proven

*shakes head*
"Quantum Physics is a branch of science that describes the nature of the universe as being very different than the world we see."

This is a very interesting topic you've brought up. Working with the infinite dimension theory, perhaps there is no afterlife at all, no spirits to be seen. It's possible that what people deem as spirits are really crossover points from different dimensions allowing for a brief glance at that dimension. If this were true, it would also be possible to glimpse differemt eras, as time would be largely irrellavent with an infinity of locations.

I've never read or seen timeline, but my uncle has an interest in the subject and gave me a magazine article to read on the topic. I believe the multi dimensions are possible. Which I why I also believe in the possibility of time travel, I think if you did manage it, you'd end up splitting to another universe, leaving the original the same anyways, so no one there would know about it.

So your theory, in a smaller sense, is death in body but the spirit continues on earth. Just trying to understand. . . .

In Deathnitegrl's defense, that's what she's read, but she admits they all conflict. The Branching Universe theory conflicts with this is as well. Unless you understand the difference between a "dimension", a "parallel universe", and a "plane/sphere of existence".

What Deathnitegrl's talking about are actually "planes of existence". This is the idea that Earth or the Physical world is on one plane, and that there are other planes, like the Ethereal (spritual), Celestial (angelic/heaven/elysian fields/summerlands), Diabolical (demonic/hell/hades/lower). These can be seen as either planes above and below ours, or as spheres surrounding ours.

Parallel universes, especially when explained by the Branching theory, simply explain that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction -- and that each branch exists in it's own parallel universe.

These are not the same things, some presume they are. In fact, each plane of existance can have parallel versions of them.

Dimensions are merely another perception of existence. We live in (at least) five dimensions. Length, width, height, time, and probabilty. There are almost certainly more dimensions than these, but these are the best humans can perceive.

Quantum Physics addresses that fifth dimension -- probability.

i had heared that there is a building (the place i don't remember ) where people fear to go n the tells that there gost exists n some scientists got there n the analysed n found that on some special days n some special times the electromagnetic field inside that building changes violently n they had documented it as that spirit exists

"Maybe dreams aren't in your head. Maybe dreams are memories of another universe." -Everworld, page 144

"....single-photon interference proves that reality is much greater than just what we see in our universe. The interference is happening, but we can't see any cause for it in our universe. Therefore, the interfering photons must be in other universes. And that proves that the other universes exist." -Timeline, page130

I don't think much more can be added to that.
Well said Daniel.

...i just read a work by Gary Schultz, and he talks about the light from our being surviving thru the cosmos, as the light from a star lives on way past the death of said star. from a light/particle standpoint, i think it very much applies.

hmm. well, you can always use pope pete's theory in liber kaos. the whole idea of shadow and pseudo time. insomuch as there is no real "space" or "dimensions" but there is a "real" time. shadow time is the remenants of eveything there was and the possibilites theirin, and pseudo time, by definition really doesnt fully exist. it would refer to present time, but present time moves so quickly, that you can never really say you're "in the moment". for instance: right now i'm in the future because time is elapsing as i type. in this theory, there is no real concept of dimensions, but concepts of space. shadow time is the area where multiple posibilities exist all at once.
i.e. "the dog is dead, but at the same time, he is alive, and also at the same time, not yet born."
....my head hurts.
-in chaos

If you want to watch an entertaining movie that talks about quantum theory, among other things to challenge our perceptions of reality, I HIGHLY recommend WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW!?.

--- ElderDaniel Wrote ---

"What the Bleep Do We KNow?" is an awsome movie. i really enjoyed it when i watched it. glad you put a link to it - i wonder if anyone else has seen it and if so what they think?

Something that might intrest you, in chinese medicine the spirit is considered part of a person's qi or energy. And with different inbalances between the channels and meridians a person can have problems with their spirit or shen.

There is also the idea of the spirit energy not letting go of the physical body after death and walking the earth. My personal favorite is that all bad, disturbing dreams are caused by qi that is not being grounded by our bodies, so the spirit or hun wanders.

Hmm, so that's what happened last night, my hun was wandering...

I mention this primarily because quantum physics is so far the only branch of science that has acceptible theories for how Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine work. Speaking Not as a scientist.

This is quite fascinating. My personal knowledge on quantum physics is very limited but what I have read in this thread is interesting.

Did you really? Or was that what I was trying to post about it that very thread, which you have obviously read and used.... hmmm.

wow..very headed stuff...physiscs in many ways sometimes proves the improbable is quite probable

Xander and ElderDaniel have made the best points here, just read what they posted.
This began in another thread, "spirits", in which the idea of multiverses and.... stuff came up. And I made this thread to talk about it.

i believe that there are other universes parellel to us, and in each universe there is a copy of u, at different momments in time. kinda wierd but in class i had this big debate after we read an article about it. i strongly believe it though

If I were to define the sun as this big yellow thing in the sky that gives off heat, light, and moves across earth's horizon, would you say that I have accurately defined what the sun is?

Our definition of time is no better. We do not know what time is comprised of. We don't know what time is caused by or is the result of. We have limited understand of how time changes proportionally with respect to higher velocities.

Very few people actually contemplate time. They've been given this nonsensical definition and just kind of go with it and don't ask any questions.

If we existed within time, we would more freely move throughout time. This isn't the case. We're stuck with a very narrow perspective.

Quantum Physics offers some unique insight. It's almost all theory though (don't let anyone tell you differently.. Repeatedly projecting exact positions of electrons just isn't done).

On a lesser scientific note, it is my firm belief that space-time is a fourth dimensional attribute. It is just out of our grasp (and may always be). When you see the future you are glimpsing time in its non-linear (4th dimensional) state. Everything in the multiverse that ever has happened or ever will happen (from a linear perspective) is happening simultaneously.

probably the best definition of time is a measurement.

1 second is 1 second. created by humans. true?

then time measures what is done in that second.

lets say you're frying an egg. in that one second, you're frying an egg. but it didn't take you one second to fry that egg. you just did it anyway.

we must stop viewing time as a requiremented creation. and understand it is a very flexible invention from our miniscule understanding of the universe.

just to further my point that time is a measurement. time is not constant. nearer a black hole time appears to go slower. but this is not the case. when you are close to the black hole. the second you count is still a second to you and in that measurement of a second you managed to maybe... move your left arm.

but an outside viewer would see it over several minutes.

oh... and i do believe echo did bring this up in the other thread.

it's a shame it needed an entire new thread to get started :|

To say time is a measurement is to say the sun is yellow.

You are making an analysis based on a resulting aspect from *your* perspective.

Saying time is a measurement has nothing to do with what causes time, what time is the result of, or why time exists.

OK, I understand what you're saying, Cancer. I need to adjust my definition of a dimension. More than "something measurable", a dimension's distance can be measured in both directions along the axis; it's bi-directional.

-X <-------+-------> +X

           t
           ^
           |
           |
           |
           |
-X <-------+-------> +X

This is where it starts to get murky because of our limited understanding of time.

Einstein proved through relativity that time and velocity are related. As velocity for an object increases, that object's perception of time changes proportionally when compared to another object's perception of time at a different (greater or lesser) velocity. It appears to be the case that at the speed of light perception of time stops.

We exist in a linear existence (as best we can tell). The rate of change (time) for this existence varies based on velocity. It is a one directional traversal since we are unable to create negative velocities or faster than speed of light velocities.

To answer your question about one directional traversal within a dimension, imagine living in a 3 dimensional world where height increased continually but never decreased. Furthermore, as an object's velocity increased, it grew taller at a lesser rate when compared to an object moving at a lesser velocity.

I know I really haven't answered anything here. That's because I don't have an answer. I don't propose to know what time is. I believe it to be impossible to define dimensions (scientifically) we don't exist in. I have theories of 4th dimensional existence, but they are impossible to prove until one exists in a 4th dimensional existence.

But remember this, if you have ever had a prophetic dream that came true you have seen the future. This would imply that all of time exists simultaneously.

I don't believe time to be fixed. It can be traversed in any direction at any rate.. Just not by us.

The only answer I have (and it would answer both of your questions) is that time exists in total simultaneously. After all, how could time (if a dimension) be limited by time? That would imply an infinite number of sub-dimensions.

spirits ghost's demons are all real i believe and whoever don't believe in them are stupid

wow deathbeforelifegirl, that really brought the intelligence in this thread down...

no scientific backing at all...

Yeah....
This is starting to become a debate over time, which I consider to be the fourth dimension even though we do not experience it as we do the first three. I would say more, but ElderDaniel and Cancer have taken most of the good points on Time.

I dont think that there is another dimesion,I think spirts and people are in one.

It seems that no one really cares anymore, so I fully expect this thread to be terminated....

No, its an interesting topic, but I think all those that wanted to say something about it have probably said it :-)

No offense to you, vmprsamurai, but I cant believe that this thread has stayed in main discussion, although my thread on planes of perception got moved to sandbox :-1

Interesting but complicated....

God i loved that Sliders show.

time is not contained anywhere. and with string theory and enstinces theory of relivity or theory of "everything" much has been proven

I think humanity is still scratching the surface on these topics..

Quite right.

Although I'm surprised to see this is still going....

I belive in this and many more ideas, that are based on this, just I like to let my mind wonder, and let it think about these kind of things.

there are many dementions that we dont even know about..spirits can pas threw a few of them..
lol and thats all i have to say about that

I do believe this forum is very entertaining yet in small way wrong place to talk about such wide and unfinished question for there is one other thing known as multyverse but really to talk about this would be to talk about GOD in whihc case I truly believe no one in here wants to hear such.

Okay, first off, Cancer is right in the respect that quantum physics is MOSTLY theoretical. However, many things have been observed in experiments in the field, and they can't be ignored.

I do believe that there are an infinite number of parallel universes, based on the infinite possibilities in life. When someone sees the future, I think they are witnessing the most probable of all these outcomes, pertaining to a specific matter.
And I do think that's an interesting theory on "spirits." I'll have to ponder that more.

Who is to say that simply because we haven't yet figured out how to traverse time in any manner other than slowly forward that it's impossible to do so? Assuming the "alternate-universe" theory is correct, and this is the reason that this is the reason some can see the future, would't this be due to some form of time travel, if only in the mind?

I dont' know....I think I may add more to this later. And for the record, What the Bleep Do We Know!? is an amazing movie. I recommend it to all.

this is truly fascinating. i must do more reading...

Actually, I recommend reading Michael Crichton's Timeline. Most of the information given on quantum physics is true (despite the fact that the book is considered "fiction").

Something that has come up is "seeing into the future". What I think on this involves the multiverse: when two universes collide (without any damage resulting to either universe), a person may somehow end up in the other universe, albeit for a limited time. If that universe is a "future" path for the other universe, then it would be possible to witness "future" events. The person's physical being would not end up in the other universe, and would most likely appear to others witnessing this collision of universes as a "spirit" or "ghost".
This brings up another topic: Time. If this was true, then there technically wouldn't be any time at all. There would simply be an infinite amount of universes, which would branch out for every amount of "time" that "passed by". There was a poem I once read ("The Paradox Of Time") which may involve this; it said "...Time stays, WE go..." this would support the theory of multiverses (however unintentional) by stating that we pass through the multiverses, causing an illusion of "time".

Quantum realities... have you heard of them? an infinite number of universes based on an infinite number of posibilities... what if there was a paralel quantum reality? and alternative universe... if we could just see into that universe... we could utilize them... and navigate our way through diferent dimensions, times and places... for quantum utilities research...

interesting VentruE

Very interestign discussion guys. I wish I had more to add, but instead I contemplate the many good ideas and theories that have been brought to surface.

I particularly agree with Cancer's theory of Multi-Dimensional Existance.

Thing is, quantum mechanics do not provide a correct description for phenomena in all cirumstances. When considering the universe as a whole for example. Or in the vicinity of Hawking's oh so loved black holes. So with the whole spirit/alternate universe debate: Until there is no final equation of our universe (if there is one) we're getting nowhere with this thread.

I don't know if quantum is the right theory to be using here. Quantum is useful, but are you using quantum gravity?

I think a better one would be string theory - which postulates up to 16 dimensions depending on the set of equasions one uses.

Humans are typically aware in four or five dimensions depending on how you define them - eight if you stretch. We are aware in three spatial dimensions (x, y, z) but the rate of change of those dimensions is fixed in our perception. We also have one temporal dimension - but again, the rate of change of that dimension is a constant.

So what if there are other spatial or temperal dimensions out there?

Use the flatworld analogy - assume we're two dimensional beings in a plane. Little dots and lines interacting. Now picture a sphere passing over our "plane of existence" - it would be invisible to us (but not vice versa) until it intersected our "plane". If it just intersected, it would be a point - but if it partially passed through it would become a circle that could grow and shink by simply moving back and forth. A U-shaped solid could literally be in two places at once by our perception...

So how does this relate to the spritual side? Not sure that it really does, but one could postulate that the soul or spirit is not bound by the same dimensional constraints as the human body...

-applauds stormwind- Very nice theory. I like how you visually described it. :)

Thank the lord for people like Stormwind; who actually have intelligence....

Everything Stormwind mentioned is true to the extent of my knowledge, and he covered the more important points of this topic. Actually, he basically mentioned everything that I had made this thread for. Some of the people who posted here had mentioned other dimensions, such as Time, and attempted to define them. Excellent work, but technically off-topic. I applaud Stormwind for mentioning the subjects I had been contemplating.

Careful, Stormwind is a intelligent man, let's hope he is humble and modest as well. His ego is having a buffet. Wouldn't want his head to get too big. ;)

Thanks guys - believe me, in my world if your ego gets too big, you're forcibly grounded... ;-)

Physics and spirits/other planes of existence are two completely seperate categories, yet can be joined into one category only in the event of speaking about the cross plane jumping that the spirits may participate in///////////Physics on the other hand is a hell of a lot more difficult to tie into spirits, but it is semi possible

in quantom theory all things are possible and one theory of it is bassed on the idea that nothing exsists but mind and mind creates the world around us. so wat u need to ask is, did these parrallel universes exist bfor the idea was though of, and if not then how do you explain the spirits of the years bfor the theory was thought of as bfor this moment they may not have excisted so there may b more than one type of spirit out there or there maybe none. you can never b sure of anything if quantom theory even if u exict at all or are jst the deslutions of sum higher being!

Errrr - that's not quantum theory. Quantum theory in essence states that energy is not a continuum, but at it's basic level is quantized into discrete values.

First off, we're trying to not discuss religion in here at all.
Second, quantum physics is made up of many different theories.... so saying that there is one 'quantum theory' wouldn't really work.

you have no idea of the things you speak... just leave them alone...they don't want to be talked about......

quantom phsics can be a good thing to ues to try to prove the existance of such things. I've saw many good theorys. Have anyone thoght that what is thought of as spirits are not really so but just another form of life in another form of existance. I don't think that mulit Demintions would explain such a thing. existance doesn't have to be just what we think of it and if such a thing exists I'm sure that it will be in a way that we would not have espected.

*stands up and applauds a decent thread*

I am quite partial to Elder Daniel's theories!

thanks for the perspectives!!

This thread started out stating the idea that spirits may reside in alternate dementions. I read an article that someone posted on another site where this person is claiming to have crossed over into another demention. It is a bit lengthy but very interesting. I urge anyone to check it out. Click here to read. Do you think this is a load of shit? I wish someone would arrange an experiment in a controlled environment to test this idea.

Sorry, I got the link wrong. This one is the correct one. here

very interseting, something to research and learn more about

I really have no idea how to relate two different things.

As glad as I am to see this still going (this is the only thread I've created) and I would prefer that people not use this as an excuse to bump up their post count. what I mean is DO NOT say things such as "I don't know anything about this" or something else not pertaining to the topic in any way.... this is a discussion, not a place for people to post their asinine opinions on something they don't understand at all.

very interesting post although i dont know anything about the subject but it seems very cool

wow i love to here philosophys that i havn't heard yet and this definately fulfilled that but it seems that someone said something about being alive in one dimension and dead in another and to me that theory seems to say that if the person/spirit is dead in all dimentions that they would be imposible to conect with, seeing as how i have conected with long-dead spirits i dont exactly agree if i have interpreted corectly

No, not dimensions. What was discussed was the Multiverse and string theory. If someone dies, then another universe would be spawned where that person did not die. Dimensions are constant, but the universe(s) are not....

I dont beleive many of us could begin to understand string therory, I have studied it and it can be confusing , all I know is the universe is controled by organised chaos, we are part of that.

I have deleted several non-responsive posts in this thread. The rule of thumb is, if you cannot make a valid point or add to the discussion in the thread, then don't contribute nonsense statements, like "I'll look this up later", or , "what would we be interested in this for?"

I'm also bumping this up because we are privy to rare and intelligent discussion between Cancer and ElderDaniel.

:D YES!! THANK YOU!!



And for the "chaos" that was referred to: that would be entropy- a chemistry term. Although I suppose that it could be worked into physics via various theories....

Has anyone on here ever seen a "ghost" and if not whos to say there really are such things!!!

i believe that i've seen a ghost before, or felt one's presence...

I believe I caught a glimpse of my grandmother's spirit the moring of her funeral, but it was a split second kind of thing.
Could've been my imagination.
Possiblly a brief glimpse into another dimension where my grandmother was still alive, a possibility mentioned by others far wiser than me in this thread.

I beleive the alternate universe theory to be true. Somewhere on another dimensinal line alternate outcomes get placed. I also beleive that deja-vu is conected to alternate universes. I beleive that at that instance of deja-vu you are seeing two or more lines of outcomes taking place, just before there are set on there way into alternate universes.

Some people just don't get it.... so I'm going to repeat myself. This thread is for discussing how quantum physics and spirits relate to each other, if at all. There is no "right" answer- that's why this is a 'discussion'. Saying that you believe in ghosts, or that the things said are interesting, just proves how big of an idiot you are. If you're going to state an opinion, please back it up with scientific eveidence (relating to physics). If you can't, then please don't say anything.