The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

How far is "Far Out"- as a believer, or someone interested in Metaphysics, and occult fields, when does a person stand out as "show boating"?

How does this affect your fellowship with others who share your belief?

I guess the question is answered by what is accepted in the particular field. It is all relative to where you are in life and who you involve yourself with. Look at religion...no one questions a deity speaking out of a burning bush or walking on water or changing certain objects to something else. If someone in here said they could materialize food would you believe them? No, I don't think so yet centuries ago some did and there have been gurus in India said to be able to do materialization of objects and millions believe this. So it is culture, upbringing and interests that generally have to do with this and not thinking one is superior. It is a belief like any other belief. It is usually the skeptics that act superior. Defining fringe fad and someone as self important is merely a judgment on someone else.

Sorry, guess I didn't exactly answer your questions. There will always be blowhards everywhere one goes so it doesn't matter what area of connection. It can cause rifts because of disagreements in view and one person siding with the other but most often one just doesn't bring up the topic in question. The metaphysical/occult community have a tendency to one-upsmanship. Join forums in that area and you will see that type of person. Usually they get ignored and there is no affect if they are indeed friends but as in this forum there are a great deal of disagreements and that is how it is about things yet to be proven or a little sketchy.

Dabbler I think it works both ways, believers or skeptics always seeem to talk about their ways and methods and seldom listen to what others are saying. Heck it works alot in the society to extremes.

So every believer believes exactly alike? I find those who have had interest in any hot topic consistently annoy the " seasoned veteran" believers, and they conflict with each other.. Well, until the skeptic or atheist enters the forum, then they ally.

SteelIndigo, you said it perfectly:

So it is culture, upbringing and interests that generally have to do with this and not thinking one is superior. It is a belief like any other belief. It is usually the skeptics that act superior. Defining fringe fad and someone as self important is merely a judgment on someone else.

Beliefs are a personal thing. I couldn't judge whether or not another person's belief is too "far out". Basically, finding another's belief to be "too far out" or "fringe" means that is just simply "too far out" for yourself.

I do not feel superior to someone whose belief is dissimilar to my own. We all have different beliefs, and although sometimes we find others with a belief system that is similar, there will always be differences, even if they are small, or subtle. My association with someone else whose beliefs are different than my own would not hamper my interactions, unless of course, they were trying to push their beliefs on me, or making judgements regarding my own beliefs.

As I said, beliefs are a personal thing, and should not be judged in the first place. After all, who is so superior to be able to judge such a thing? I'll answer my own question; no one.

You make the assumption that most believers do, you conclude that all skeptics are out to refute your beliefs. Can you accept that some people are rather indifferent, to your beliefs , or adaptation of an established belief, all of which condemn factions in their own ranks, and other beliefs?

That and the assumption that all nonbelievers, and skeptics never subscribe to an established belief.

You just need to read journals on this site to see the petty infighting over trivial identity, ( which are nothing but alter egos). As if challenging a person to present creative reasoning to blunt claims is completely asinine behavior.

I could see people that keep it on the less then Uber Devotee.

You can look in the journals and see the fall outs, and dissed'.

Now ~Dabbler~ are we discussing the "self important" individuals that seem to want their names all over the media, such as in magazines and on commercials to promote their "psychic" gimmicks? Names like Dion Warwick, Kenny Kingston, and whats her name that seems to be popular these days?

It is individuals such as those that seem to attract the most attention to "themselves" rather than their "craft."

Taking it to another level is a sure way to be "shunned" by those within your field of expertise. Believers within these fields that are professional at what they do, do look down on mainstreamers because the fortune is not what it is about, but giving to others and not to the self.

That's the line that's crossed, and those same people " on high" talk down on.
Those with modest practices. I know a reader who screens her sitters after catching fall out from quirky " energy practitioners".



But people that just mica bunch of defined religions, and beliefs together, then confront everyone that seeks reasoning ( and sources) to support their
argument.

The number one cause of people aborting established beliefs.. vagaries in accepted interpretation of text, and Ritual micro management.

No Vesper, it was regarding the underlying mentality of some " Seeming believers" As SS points out this is most seen in Celebrity type. My concern is what happens to people tangled up in egotism, and predators that umbrella under " respect our beliefs", the ignorance of such people that catch those who want instant recognition as a " Grand High Wizard" after they watch LotR.

Their are even those believers that scoff " Hollywood", and Role players, then cry about people " hating" on them for unreasoned beliefs.

It exhaust people that want to be creative without formality catering to something mythological declared sacred by a minority.

If everyone was to judge others by their beliefs and scoff at them because they seem over the top then there would be no religion at all in the world. Many worship angels and some don't know this. There are groups like this. Some worship those they think are prophets and then others worship people they think were a god that came and martyred themselves for the sake of all humanity because humans are inately sinful. How do we pick and choose which is fringe, out there or over the top, just because some are accepted and others not? It is a judgment call. Just because a lot of people accept a belief and I mean millions, with no proof that things said or written are factual does that put anything else out of the ball park? Many of the things people say here can be proven in certain ways at least as far as energy manipulation and things like that. I would post something but I am looking for it again. Pictures taken I guess with infrared or some such cameras that show these exchanges.

IMHO it doesn't matter what people believe. I think humans have a tendency to want to be critical, to want to pick apart everything for the sake of being able to do so. Aren't there more constructive things to do than judge everyone. There are those that seem to be taking advantage of people but a few don't mean the whole of the individual belief system is rotten to the core. Look at Priests, ministers that have been arrested for things totally against their church or just decency. Does that mean anyone connected to that belief is immoral or not upstanding because of it? The logic makes no sense. There are many investigations on the paranormal that have gone on for years. Some are in the open and others are not with very concrete data...check out Duke University.

There also will always be people that press their sensationalism on others that are content with moderate beliefs, moderate beliefs that do not involve claims of Divine Connection, and Mystic alignments. However there are those who support themselves on such Gullible people, people that are exploited are kept in the dark, by spineless believers that are ignorant to the abuses.

Religion, and the Occult need to police their ranks, because they are shielding scum.

It doesn't sound to me that there is a problem here in general with card readers or anything else. It really seems like it is a personal problem and personal bad experiences. I have seen things saying bad things about people. Look at what happened to Rajneesh and still people carry on and follow. People follow a lot of things including beliefs that can be shown even if written over and over for hundreds of years to be due to people changing things and it was said so much over and over it is believed. I saw one here big as life...that Vlad the Impaler was the inspiration for the book Dracula and it isn't exactly the truth if you really do the research...it is hype that has been said over and over that so many people believe it but when you go even to certain folks from the area who actually do know and have seen the working notes, they know this isn't exactly the truth. Someone has been connected to vampirism for nothing more than misinformation and the telling of it over and over. If one has not been around spiritualists then they don't know that they will tell you that anyone who claims to be accurate 100 percent of the time is a fake. No one is perfect and even in these skills. The cards are a tool and you read them from what you learn about what they represent and if you have some degree of psychic ability then you also pick up vibrationally. There are charlatans in any field...look at all the banks, look at all the loan companies...look at governments yet you are concerned about this...anyone who is should just not go to readers, lol...

to not believe has become an insult to believers, wether they practice, or use services.

I offer people insight to what I know exist, it falls short of the sensational
Mystic pretenses hyped by occultist. However True Believers are insulted by this as well.

Fakirs have been doing demonstrations for centeries, a parlor tradition was
Adapted and used under pretense of mystical forces.

Somehow the occultist turned it around, to read Mystics have been performing demonstrations of mystic forces for centuries, and Illusionist
fake it.

First and formost, it is evedent that wether you believe a spiritual, or mystic force exist ( and is tapped into) or not, you agree that their is abuse, and that those who exploit benift from the " except all without account" mentality so obvious in the metaphysical collectives.

Believers of such claims are so fixated in their dogma/practices that blind themselves from reasoning about every situation crosses their path, making/relying in higher waters to solve their situations or presented circunstance and even posture about logistic reasoning. ALWAYS thinking they hold the ultimate and only truth of things without even questioning their claims or sources but followed by sheer unprofound/ unevidenced results. I believe the power of WORDS and persuasive programation makes a seeker into believers, without even mentioning the poisonous programation from weak minded, man - man, or father - son. Yet science or evidence doesn't "hold the last coca cola in the desert" nor knows all the 'pieces of the puzzles' some things are yet to be explained and until those that profess esoteric knowledge broaden/provide concrete or consistent amount of validation in their practices it will remain as fringe arts.

to offer a lesser option to reasonable summarize the basic concept of what a person believes is bane to a majority of professed believers. I understand your point Rev, but prior to presenting any demonstaration a summary would suffice. It us such summary that seperates Fair Weather from Devotees.

It is not that they believe, it us the implication that those who don't are
unressonable in our disbelief. But I would argue most believers would have others accept, and be convinced of not only their belief, but all the anecdotes, and accounts of alledged experiences, or sightings.

Personally, I am very open minded. I like hearing about new ideas, fringe stuff etc. Some of it is crap, but some of it is not. I think it encourages creative/out of the box thinking, so I never feel like it is to far out.

Samples of A Canada Institutes Code of Ethics, as Adopted by a Reader, source upon to follow.

I will serve the best interest of my clients, conducting my professional activities without causing or intending to cause harm.

I will treat all my clients with equal respect regardless of their origin, race, religion, gender, age or sexual preference.

I will represent honestly my Tarot qualifications, including educational credentials and levels of certification.

I will keep confidential the names of clients and all information shared or discussed during readings unless otherwise requested by the client or required by a court of law.

I will recommend clients consult a licensed professional for advice of a legal, financial, medical or psychological nature that I am not qualified to provide. If trained in one of these areas, I will clearly differentiate between the Tarot reading and my professional advice additionally provided.

I will respect my client's right to refuse or terminate their reading at any time, regardless of prior consent.

I recognize that all CTN members have the same rights and obligations and will always respect and honor my co-members.

You always have the right to exercise your own free will and make your own choices.

You alone have the right to decide if and when you want a Tarot reading.

You have the right to a useful and supportive Tarot reading experience.

You are entitled to the full attention of your reader, free of mood altering substances.

You are entitled to full and complete answers to the question covered in your reading.

You have the right to privacy and confidentiality.

Your reading is a complete service in itself. You are not required to purchase anything else.

Unless your reader is a doctor, lawyer, financial adviser or certified counselor, they are not qualified to give medical, legal, financial or psychological advice.

Tarot readers are not mind readers or fortune tellers. They are not qualified to predict the future or tell you with certainty what another individual is thinking. They can only guide you to make better choices based on your own energy signature.

Your Tarot reader is not qualified to make your decisions for you. You alone must make those choices.



I will respect each and every client as the unique extension of the Divine Creator that they are, regardless of their social status & without Judgement.

I will conduct myself with the utmost integrity at all times.

I will work to empower clients so that they may manifest their own future.

I will not encourage client dependency on my services.

I will not violate the trust placed in me by my clients, or the CTN.

With the renewed popularity of the occult ( mostly due to the Internet )

More people are professing to be enlightened to more " acute insight", this
leads to greater claims made to potential consumers/ clients. Claims that any
practiced reader would never make, this makes a potential for readers to be
alienated by their inflated expectations. For every reader ( psychic aligned or not) that practices with a presentable code of ethics, there are two more that are without scruples.

If a person was to mention doing free readings in most bay area, ca circles
They would be laughed at!

However the readers that do not proclaim to be Psychic Aligned make a far
more steady practice. Plenty of anonmosity exist between spiritualist in the Bay Area as well, with ads pressing the often conflicting " ability" of metaphysical businesses. Some even cast doubt on the claims if others credentials.

I think there is considerable more people believing in the occult or other things that they never dreamed of believing in. not just because of the internet, but more documentry shows on TV. bringing things to light.

Each person some way likes to read or watch more on things in which they seem to have an interest in. Going back in society when these things were not norm, people veered off of these, now the culture shows more flucation within the realms of the occult, lores, myths . getting people to ponder on the facts of the cse and their own beliefs.

Yeah now vampires are: sweet, sexy, and huggable , before it was seen as a menace and a haunting figure, as well gods and demons now are summoned to give prosperity, conformity and health to believers at will, like they are at service to humans, or perhaps a 'genie in a bottle' for believers.

Scrupulous practices ( claiming psychic alignment or not) do not imply to clients such things as "curses" being placed on them, " curses" that need to be lifted ( at exorbant cost).


Scrouplous spiritualist don't imply, or say " A loved one needs your intervention for them to pass into the after life ( again at extra fees, and cost of " ritual material".

Flat rate, and on call group readers can perform basic readings and never
claim to be aligned with Arcan forces. Nonbelievers practice Craft as well, and the last to admit such a statement is true, and supported are those who easily exploit seekers, and believers alike.

Dabbler so you think the interest of the occult or the myths of this world or just anything else has a bearing on the life of the individual. lets say close to death expeirence , rebellion with the family, life seems to be in ruins?

people invest too much in metaphysics, if you read any standard psychic disclaimer those who practice state ( not to replace professional services, I put a sample of such disclaimers, and code of ethics. Yet people that practice. Such things as a business are apt to feed peoples unrealistic expectations. I know people who read who get people who get outraged, and
denounce them as some how being frauds because they will not cater to the wishes that other suspect readers have introduced to them..

Look back at the history of spiritualism, and you can see the way it us divided among Eyes open mediums, and Eyes Closed mediums.

Did you know that some mediums included sexual experiences in there séance sittings.. and that sitters would go to other sitters and demand to experience sexual " visits".

My point was that I could possible see individuals or youth turning more to this becuase of defing parental figures, yet torn because the adults on sites like this or others with same beliefs.

In one of our classes now we are adressing or discussing factions of turning individuals against the norm of societies beliefs and following paths of other religions and factions in which there was none before.

Examples: the occults, sub cultures like the vampires, racists movement along with cult factions. wether society pushed them there or other reasons for the uplift in movements.

Some people want to be accepted as more devote then others. They present, and promote themselves as grand as they can, not all who claim to be psychic believe in mysticism. They are convinced that there is money in seekers and believers both, as the number of practices ( most modest, and limited to one or two forms of divination) proliferate. The tendency for grander promises to would be clients raises, former readers become " teachers of readings, and life coaches." they blur secular with metaphysics, create user friendly services for people with Christian leanings, print up new flashy "Institute certificates" for their walls, all they do is repackage the standard practices.

Just a side note here, I am glad you posted those code of ethics Dab. After all, I expect when I go to a doctor, lawyer, or any other service provider to see a liscence and ethics code. I question any provider of services I go to, and they don't get defensive, they show there qualifications and answer all questions. So I agree a psychic or reader, etc, should do the same in there profession.

Code of ethics for readers, hypnotists,mentalists, and magicians- That would be Joke. parlor tricks taken from the days of old to mistify the audience. thats all they are. and if people wish to indulge in such things that is their own right or belief.

Heck my aunt reads cards for the family, but that is her belief to me to take value in it is left to my imagination.

This would like making all proffesional wrestlers show their degrees on where they were trained. I just can't not fathom the logic of this statement because like I said its entertainment use. Should have stickers plastered on them that say that.

No. Cade...what I am trying to say is there is business offices actually open with a real store front advertiseing spiritual and mystical readings and healings, etc...with no disclaimers or ethics posted. At least here in Citrus County , I know because I loked and they are not posted.

I am saying that people who spend good money thinking its not for entertainment but very serious...they are the ones entitled to know the truth so they are not taken advantage of.

A wrestler is not a service. A beautician is a service and they are liscened. A wrestler is entertanment. A lost person seeking serious guidance who goes to a spiritual reader should be entitled full disclosure.

Ok see where this was going, yet how would one determine the code of ethics on this. If there prophecies come true, or that the person is healed a person. how would put guidances on a person who claims to have the sight and one who does have the sight.

Some of this is left to the audience in which they attract. much like a horescope. value is left to the persons interpitation of this, for it is a blanket statement given to the mass. No single reading is meant for one person but several hundreds.

I am asking how would you make them accoutable on what pretense could there be. Not like a doctor or phycatrist and the background and schooling they have done.

How could these readers or physics or magicians show crediabilty to get this. i understand the reasoning yet it mystifies me on how they go about doing this.

Have some scientist study them when they are just a logical thought without the reasoning of other things beside numbers. look at the accountability on the profits.

I know there is alot of shysters within the groups of these healers ans soothe sayers, yet those shady people are in every faction of societys service workers.

have you read the posted code of ethics? That was written by a practicing psychic. Your not really clear about your position. How do you feel about those who exploit people with psychic practices? Do you argee at all that consumers, and clients of such services need protection from unscruplous practicioners? This is not about if, psychics are " authentic", or " fakes".

If a person claims to be a gifted psychic, exploits a person do you just shrug it off, and tell the person " Oh Well, better luck next time."

Dabbler the pretense is on the belief system, many go looking for something in their life or some hope os something coming their way.

Pick up a fortune cookie and it says you will meet someone who will change your life, does not happen. Hey lets put a statement in fortune cookies now that says for whatever.

It is the bases of the person going. and what they expect or what not to expect is all. code of ethics would be fine, but lets look at lawyers and docotrs wh them selves have codes and yet seem to work around them.

Some measures need to be taken to protect consumers, and investers in psychic practices, this is supported by practicing readers, readers who see abuse of clients, wether or not a practioner is " gifted", or not( eyes open, or eyes closed) is not relative neccessary. Those who exploit people ( again wether " authentic", or non believer practice) operate with impunity, and
Leave a trail behind them, often playing as many lures as a snag fisher man, claiming credentials in every new found disipline, and fabricating their own, this is the graft, that the new age industry, and Spiritualist practice needs to pow wow on.. But you know what I am indifferent, the regulations coming are long over do. Performers will still be able to practice honest craft, without overcharging flatters offering crumbs to desperate people.

Ok, say these codes are in place and now what who moniters it. The burea of super natural Affairs. codes would be good to help scammers get caught. but look at other practices that intice humans in and get nothing for their money.

I understand what you are saying but who determines the code of ethics. Hogwarts Academy? for it has to be a biest opinion that makes this code and not just the nay sayers or those fo it.

Again earlier in this thread I posted an example of a practicing psychics code, along with those of an institute.. It is a fine line between practicing religion, and clinical new age. So would a person that goes to a practicing psychic and gets had ( regardless of the " authenticity" of their practice"

My question to you, is if a psychic has no peer review then how suspect is their practice?

I know practing readers that are pro regulation of business practices,
the wishy washy practice of wrapping business and spiritual/ metaphysical
Practices is inviting exploiters, who exploit .. Regardless of how " authentic" their claimed talent/ gift are.

True dabbler if no peer review than the practice could maintain no standing, but what i am getting too is there are alot of readers that work out of their homes and word of mouth is the advertising for the.

Now the code would be fine for those who wish to get this and operate would be up to law, yet those who hold for regular customers that do not maintain a business would not have to get the code.

Understanding what i am saying.

Cadre, did you know? more nonbelievers convert seekers into new age beliefs, annually more then true believers convert?

What does that tell you.

What is too far out New Age wise . Would you like examples of what has happened to people who " kept open minds"?

Dabbler i know you are saying, but my question is like all, how why and the reasoning. if it is good for one its good for all, yet pull all under the blanket of code and not just the practicing ones our of business.

Believers or nay sayers have nothing to do with converting to which side or not. I understand your thought and meaning yet those who take money or steal money are those who do not call themselves logical business but operates behind the scences.

Codes in place should cover all forms, magicians, illusionists, readers, pyscics, heck any one under the umbrella of super natural or for profit.

psychics are mental illusionist, spiritualist are information craft specialist.

I hear every believer place such a high value on testimony of experiences, yet the moment I share my observations, experiences, and practice while with a Spiritualist Center ( interesting reason why they state Center) so
What should a person expect from a professed reader, what should they be aware of, surly Cadre you could spot a fake .. Right?

Dabbler -

..I just have to interject here for a second; if you feel, and it appears that you do, so strongly regarding codes of ethics, regulations, accountability and so forth regarding anything in the business aspects of psychic readers, mediums, palmists, tarot readers, and so forth, do something about it.

Rather than sit there at a computer, carrying on, lobby for regulations. Lobbying can be characterized as multiple strategies from letter writing to newspaper ads to educational campaigns. Contact your state rep, your state senator and express to them what it is you want to do, make sure you have good notes of what you want to acomplish, and how it ought to be done.

Because, honestly, you're not going to make any real difference here, spouting off about the unfairness, the need for ethics, regulations, etc. If you feel passionate about this, seriously do something.

Personally, I think there are many more important "geese out there for the shooting" than this, but we all pick and choose our own fights. I do have to say that I enjoyed the analogy regarding the fortune cookie, however.

Should they, too, be regulated, considering that there very well could be some people whom truly believe in those fortunes, and may end up disappointed, and out a few nickles and dimes when the fortunes turn out to be false? This question really doesn't need answering by the way - its rhetorical.

The many filed cases are ignored so easily by believers. Believers ate so easily led by sensational claims, as the bar is raised more prononcrd claims , and vague promises, along with a good script to sound off when nothing happens., as to why nothing happened, sending the seeker off to the next big promised package.

There are already active consumer assessment of new age services.

I encourage people to exercise caution, and be alert for friends intensly absorbed in occult mystism, so much so that they become subject to expoitation. Check credentials, referrals ( but this can, and commonly are fake documents). Flat rate readings are agreed to be more user concsious, the more detailed , and grand the professed benifits of their service are, the more lilly it is " to good to be true" entertain, or counsol friends who seek
Metaphysical services, go with them. Be sure if a place calls itself a clinic, it should have practice acresidations, and the head person should have accreditation, all this I should add was submitted by readers, and entertainers. No representative showed up for Celebrity psychic naysayers..

Alright then, if that is the case, and something IS indeed being done regarding your concerns of the "new age" industry, what are these two statement you've made actually about, and what do they mean?

To make things easier for you, I will paste your statements:

"The many filed cases are ignored so easily by believers. Believers ate so easily led by sensational claims, as the bar is raised more prononcrd claims , and vague promises, along with a good script to sound off when nothing happens., as to why nothing happened, sending the seeker off to the next big promised package"

And this as well you stated:

"Some measures need to be taken to protect consumers"

:Far out: is a strange way to ask the question. if someone is showcasing their talents, they are being a little silly. why give away your advantage?

i work in a corporate setting, and though people know I'm a witch, very few know i'm a vampire. even fewer can guess at the extent of my power or the extent to which i will use it.

i don't need to showboat. it's much better to keep it at a minimum and have a few secrets to yourself.

Jeno I can accept the ambiguous practices, and those that are not showboating, most of my practicing friends, and associates are covert about their practice, mostly to avoid encountering commercial believers.

Vesper, Are you aware of Bunco squads? Investigatirs that go after psychics who expoit people ( wether a person is " authentically gifted", or a parlor trick con) there are many cases on file of people being led into cults through new age disiplines.

Actually, I haven't ignored any questions. Anything you asked me, I have answered. You, however, have ignored these questions I am about to, again, go into.

I asked you why you don't do something about this oh-so terrible bilking of money and mind that the "new age"/"psychic" businesses have done.

You incoherently answered this question. I tried to make sense of your slaughtered grammar, and incomplete sentences, and came up with what you might have been attempting to say. It sounded to me like you said that although people have made complaints, its was useless, as these complaints were met by "occult believers" who sent them on to some "next big package".

So, I then asked you WHO these complaints were made to, WHAT were they filed under, and WHAT was this next big package that your state/gov. officials were sending them off to? I also asked you WHAT makes you think that your state/gov. officials (such as you state rep, senator, etc.. ) are into the occult SO much that they would ignore these bilked and disillusioned consumers. For that matter, what makes you come to the conclusion that they are into the occult in the first place?

I then said, if this is indeed true, if your gov. & state officials are indeed deeply into the occult, and nothing can be done to protect these consumers, what is your point carrying on in this particular forum? On this site? There are other sites that are actually dedicated to these kinds of businesses that do have forums of which perhaps your passion would be better directed. I would imagine that those whom ARE on this site, who are into these kinds of practices, who DO have access to money, would more than likely know HOW to protect themselves, and spot scams, and not get bilked.

As for your Bunco squads, did you read about the fictionalized version of Bunco Squads? Because Bunco Squads, Dabbler, were created in the 40's to bust gambling scams, not naughty psychics. Nor were they created to investigate fraud claims against psychics.

However, if you want to base this on the "Psychic Seeker's Handbook" which looks like a load of ..well, to me, or the fictional novel, "Deadly Vision" by Roy Johansan, then sure.. but I'd have to shake my head, and chuckle.

Any group that calls themselves a "Bunco Squad" today are simply ordinary citizens who are a bit out there in their anti-psychic/occult viewpoints. The actual Bunco Squads haven't been in practice, for the most part, since the 60's. And at that, it was for gambling cases.

The idea you SEEM to have regarding bunco squads is just as "far out" in the opposite end of the spectrum as your opinions regarding psychics are.

You see, there are skeptics, rational, logical skeptics - and then there are nut job skeptics who jump the gun at everything and anything.

For your sake, I hope you're not the latter.

Now if all these complaints are being sent to your "local Bunco Squad", perhaps it would be more useful to send these complaints where they might count. Such as to your state and government officials. Perhaps it would be more of a service to actually lobby, to get regulations and laws in place to protect these people you feel are being scammed to the utmost by false and fake psychics. Perhaps doing something other than carrying on and gripping here will give you the results you seem to be after. I gave you basic instructions on how to go about this in my earlier post.

By the way, I won't hold my breath waiting for you to come up with some sensible answers to these inquiries.

Good luck.

No I said that anyone who ask supporters of psychic practices what should be done about the hack psychics, psychics that make claims , and never deliever, sometimes even sending customers away with more questions.

Yea, my grammer may be out of sorts, I use an iPod best I can.

I am doing my part to debunk psychic, and spiritualist practices. It is all based on Fakery. Simply put. Those who are led to invest too much into the occult should be aware of the exploitation and abuse. Mor, and more far reaching claims are being made by occult practices, they disappear usually after numerous complaints by customers. Your Bunco Squad tirad shows how little you are aware of, sure they are not called Bunco Squads anymore, but if you do research you will see that indeed they cracked down on spiritualist, and psychics bilking bereaved clients/ marks.

So is it your opinion that mediums, and psychics could do no wrong?

Believers draw their strength all over and they strecth out, it spreads from one generation to another but all depends what u believe. But as far as being openminded ia m very openminded and interested in alot of different aspects of practics. But only one is good to stay with and follow it isnt good to mix them

Oh, Dabbler, I should have known you were not capable of answering my questions..

And as for writing on an Ipod, it shouldn't hamper your abilitiy to write THAT much.

Now you said, "No I said that anyone who ask supporters of psychic practices what should be done about the hack psychics, psychics that make claims , and never deliever, sometimes even sending customers away with more questions.

You never say here what SHOULD be done.. do you even reread what you write? You end this sentence without even stating what you're attempting to state.

And then you said, "Your Bunco Squad tirad shows how little you are aware of, sure they are not called Bunco Squads anymore

There you go. Shows how much I do know. You've made my point for me. They are not called Bunco Squads. If you're going to use that term, and you KNOW its not the right term, and you KNOW they are not called Bunco Squads, then don't get huffy with me for calling you on that.

Now to answer your question, which was, "
So is it your opinion that mediums, and psychics could do no wrong? - my answer is OF COURSE they CAN do wrong. Just like any and every business out there. Just like every HUMAN out there - they have frauds, fakes, liars, and flaws within their system. Not once, nor anywhere have I ever stated that "psychics could do no wrong".

That's simply idiotic.

I am done here. It is utterly pointless to try to discuss something with someone who has no capabilities in either answering or giving explanations for the (and i use this term very lightly) information they throw out.

Good luck in trying to do whatever it is you're trying to do.

Thank you, you have made a difference with your post, simply by agreeing there is a need for " psychics" to police their own ranks. For practices presented as clinical, rather then the dominate standard; For entertainment only.

The mentality most people are concerned over is when psychic practices are asked for credentials, and referals, they pshaw those who ask.

The heart of the matter is that the grander the metaphysic practices gain, the more they charge, the more devotion they require to a more then likely bogus practice.

When well intentioned psychics comply by existing measures, and standards, basically jumping through hoops that practices with less scruplels
scoff.

Your persistance is most notable Vesper, you jarred me to clarity.

Some of it is hocus pocus/bs. But I think researching other fringe possibilities (like remote viewing) may have benefits.

Awhile ago, saying a dog could detect cancer or predict a seizure was considered far out, but today, it is known that some canines can do this.

I follow your reasoning, there are some who ( upon hearing that dogs sense cancer ect.) that would have people believe this is possible through metaphysical means, when current knoeledge of biology confirms it is related to the scent capacity of the dog.

For an example of how professed professional observers can be biased by there expectations of PSI demonstrations, I suggest Youtubing, or Wiki Project Alpha.

When does " The Fringe" become gratuitious?