The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

What test could a psychic pass, to be rated by degree?

LOL...well I hear you must have the goverment to take
action on your 'gifts' and let them test you in a big white room..with cards,with a scal-tap stuck to you head to
look at brain waves..and all of that.
maybe you can google it up.

I would mention that that is already something "PSI researchers are doing.

So in a way I am saying test made by psychics, to "rate" the PSi degree of the person that volunteers for the test.

Psychics are not 100% accurate so I don't know how they would test them other than with things like Zener cards and things like that.

Various Universities run studies but since so many now accept some of this as fact it isn't so interesting to many and the studies are not so prevalent. What would be your criterion for accepting someone had abilities...one hundred percent hits?

I guess a 60:40 could give a high or some ground on the claims , but a -1, 2, 3 out of 10- "predictions" isn't even evident to call one a psychic or anything of that sense. I could do logistic with only observation and say this is going to happen, and when it takes place many would think Im some sort of psychic, when is really just awareness of natural occurrence, things that people might avoid to see/observe, think or even consider; ignorance brings fortune to vultures(observers, people that know the weakness of others).

There is a place in New Orleans called the Mortuary, it is a place of if you could call it "psychic testing", I have not gone there as of yet, but I would gladly prove what I am in a matter of minutes. Though I do not need tests to tell me what I already know.

Well if you look up the guy that was called the sleeping prophet you will find a case of a true proven psychic. He has many predictions that have come and has many more that are still to come. Look him up online. I forget his real name tho.

I've thought about this for a while in regard to card readers and such. in teh past 100 years medicine went from quackery to prestigeous, and so have actors by uniting and giving tehmselves pats on the back.

Psychics should do the same.

I think you would need a basic standard for, Pattern (Tealeaf, Crystal Ball, Bones), Cartomancy, Palmestry, and other basic fortunetelling techniques that anyone can do with a little practice; so that a client can be assured that they know that they are getting someone who isn't going to fumble with the system.

Class = Reader


Another level would be ghosts/angels, psyhometry, auras, etc... a reading that still rely on reading something more than what a trained monkey can.

Class = Medium

A third level might be someone who can tell things with no medium whatsoever. Someone who can with regularity tell you things without talking to spirits or using tarot or looking at your palm.

Class = Psychic

A fourth level might be someone who can cociously manipulate energy in ways that affect the material. Chi Gung, Reflexology, other energy manipulators (ie Vampires.)

Class = Energy Worker

So you could have a portfolio with authority and the respect of other readers.

If you had levels of proficiency from 0-5 (0 being training under a mentor of at least 2nd level/grade) 1st grade being basic proficiency, second level being able to teach, third level, would encorporate teh grade above, and 4th the grade above. 5th grade would be recognised as a master by 4th grade peers.

So a portfolio may look like:

Reader 4th grade (Cartomancer, Palmestry, Pattern)
Medium 3rd grade (Aura)
Psychic 1st grade
Energy Worker grade 0 (Reki)

Crystal Ball, Psychic painting, Tarot, Playing Cards, Tealeaf and Tukish coffee, Aura painting, Psychometry, Pendulum, Reki

Or something like that.

Most mediums ( not psychics ) are tested before they start working in Churches in the UK if they belong to the Union.

In what way are "mediums" tested, and in what way would they work with the CoE?

Edgar Cayce - The sleeping prophet is one of many individuals throughout history that were "psychic" in life.

But, there again lays a foundation of testing. Edgar did not get the testing (whichever sort of testing I am refering to) and therefore was under speculation. Such others were as well, one name would be Nostradamas. I will not go into details, I think we all know this individual without thinking twice.

There are certain methods as were described in earlier posts that could validate testing and accuracy, such as chiromancy (palm reading), tarot, scrying, crystal gazing, gyromancy...and several others.

It would be quite interesting to experiance the results of each of these as they were tested just to gain a glimpse at fact vs fiction in the realm of this type of arcane and unorthodox venture

You mean proof of survival of an entity after corporal death, in the conventional definition of medium.

As in: you give evidence of the life of someone whom you don't know, that is dead, and which you can proove you have no prior knowledge.

Potentially, it is akin to a normal psychic reading, except that, the person whom you are reading is already dead;
or
you could actually be hearing whisperings of the dead.

How would you tell the difference, and would it matter.

I am sure there is a huge differance from the whispers in the head, and a death phenomenon.

Channeling is a bit differan then psychic interpretation in my perspective. Since some psychics cannot channel, and some channelers are not psychic. I would imagine it depends on how mentally strong the individual is and dare I say "open minded" and adaptable to their cognative enviroment.

Sinora is correct. Even a Spiritualist Church in the States, must go before a board of people, and prove
that they have the ability.

Channeling would then be the mediums view of a "skinriding," someone who makes room voluntarily for another "spirit" to express itself within that body.

Would include automatic writing, possession and speaking in tongues; also possesion by godhead as in the holy prophets and manifestation of scripture, as well as other "pen of god" type prophecy.

But does not include being spoken to by such spirits as if "heard," like moses on the mount, or Jesus talking to satan, or all those mediums on tv.

Spiritualist Church is the Christian equivalant of Kabala and Sunni?

Started out as shakers (christians possesed by god, speaking tongues and "shaking" or dancing,) but now includes other forms of mediumship, and christian mysticism (a desire to "know" god on this plane rather than waiting for the next.)

I'm probably oversimplifying, it sounds remarkably like santaria.

I see a familiar pattern arising...Certain religions seem to be domesticating other religions. Mayhaps they may even claim the psychic connections as well...

Thank you LS,

I took the test, and got 3 out of 10. What intersted me was the summary statement, it said " You only got 3 out of 10, something powerful is working against you." Implying?

What a curious marketing gimmick, something that people who seek to " enhance their psychic powers can expect to hear a lot of, that vague wording.

So what approach is safest for seekers/and new studied practice.

- Keep reading in close knit circles ( it brings friends together)

- instead of buying some series of books, look in your library ( most " psychic study books" are rehashes of the authors last book.

- let the sitter decide what the origin of your talent is. ( you may find this stirs less distractive debate)

- some sitters are likely to have been subjected to abuse, and flattery by other readers. It is not required to devulge such sitting/ or ask the sitter about past readings if the sitter is too insistent on irrational expectations, then it may be good to inquire about past readings, or terminate the reading. Be as polite as possible, some sitters are personally invested in
unrealistic expectations, that may have been catered to by shady readers, or
crooked Mediums.

For those who read, and those who sit, please share what is a " standard reading" how much of say a 30 min reading should apply to a sitter?

There is no test that a cynical person would believe and why would you want to prove anything to them.

Doro I stated a test made by psychics for psychics.

I would encourage you to check the difference between cynics, and skeptics.

For infos sake, James Randi had a series of programs that invited an interactive demonstration/ testing of metaphysical claimants. I will send you a link if you are interested.

I should also point out that their is a group of readers ( who do not use the label psychic) who seek an established consumer guide regarding psychic services.

The common loop holes that suspect reader use are the " We/I practice spiritually, We/I am not a business." To which most rational people reply, " Then please present your Mission Statement".

So in your opinion, is there anything that makes one psychic reading more valued then another. You are making a case against psychics by saying
there is no test to demonstrate how " gifted" a psychic is, and that only a believer can discern a readers accuracy. So is it is all subjective?

suggested article The age.com
key words" Psychics required to declare which is witch." c

Why the Spiritualist board wants proff,,,is that one of their declaration is...we believe that the door to reformation is never closed.


To prove to the board that they can prove there is life after death.

Actually mm mediums are far more questioning of claimed gifts then people know .

The only way I know how to test someone is to see if they can get a group of these individuals, and one by one stick them in the same room with a subject, and see how many can pick up on what is really there.

I have never really heard of a formal test to see if anyone is such a thing.

what would been the need or why the desire to be rated for your natural abilites. the psychic abilites vary from on person to another and are in different strengths there is no real where to determin degree

You lost me, I was following you partial, but could you please elaborate.

The main concern is that unethical people ( gifted or not) expoit people that are led to expect unreasonable, and often fantastical break throughs from a reading.

Replacing counseling with a psychic is a bad idea, even Psychics discourage people from such ventures.

"Located in Northern California,
IONS is a nonprofit membership organization that
conducts and sponsors leading-edge research into
the potentials and powers of consciousness"

This is the action statement for the Institute of Noetic Sciences. I have been through this site and there are a few interesting test/games in it.

IONS

thanks ww that is interesting material.

so as i follow this thread, it is evident that people feel "let the suckers be had".

and consumer protection is unnecessary.

as if the "gifted
' can do no wrong.. sad really.. for people who claim to be helping people to be so obviously callous, and even deny that there are any reasons to regulate such practices.

yes...and why not?

look at the lottery. this is nothing but a tax on people that are unable to do math.

if you are under the age of adulthood (18 for most things), then sure i can understand the concern

but for an adult...this turns into another way that the big brother nanny can protect the general public from itself...and i think most people are getting sick of that.
~W~

yet they allow psychics to claim themselves to be a professional service, and sucker people by false pretense.

and people who claim to be psychics act as if there is nothing to be concerned about.

yes let the suckers be had,seriously if your that gullable then it's your own fault..i think the problem with todays people is they don't use enough common sense and use to much wishfull thinking but thats just my opinions.

But some are real.
Larely against my will I had a tarot reading and it confirmed that which I already suspected.
The reader broke down in tears after 24 years of reading she had never pulled the death and devil card in the major Arcarna...or something like that. I do not follow tarot so all I remember is they were my three cards. She is no fake so I suggested she charge 500 dollars per reading but she flatly refused as it was never about money and the spirits are easily angered. I agree they should have testimony to register them as skilled.

So basically you allowed yourself to be flattered by the readers performance.

I will not rise to the bait, for that which is above me is in truth beneath me good Sir.

www.scarlettetarot.com

Bows and vanishes.

Dabbler,

This is a great thread.

I've taken those test and got the same results as you. Something is working against me. I'm OK with that. No problem. I've determined any psychic ability I have is really attention to detail and intuitive guesses. If powers are against me, so be it. I believe as many power are for me as against me.

Doru,

I respect you greatly. But in the end we have to prove ourselves to each other almost daily. At work, it is what have you done for me lately. At home, you spouse/partner ask you to prove you commitment regularily; as you do to them. Many areas of study have proved themselves over the past couple centuries using the scientific method, publication and peer review. I work as an engineer. I prove my self constantly. I represent my company at the industry level and deal with abstract ideas and concepts on a daily basis. I work in the computer engineer area, and deal with decisions on implementing functionality in hardware versus software. Most of it is personal opinion, but yet, when we discuss it, one must present cogent arguments to suppor one's position.

I agree that we don't, overall, have to prove ourselves to anybody. But, we do anyway. I would love to see some scientific method surounding psychic issues. I wouldn't expect any psychic to be 100% accurate, nothing in this world is, but yet, why would anyone be oppose to participating in an well designed scientific study.

I decided to Dabble with Doru; scored 6;5;4 faces are harder right half the time.
If you cannot do this I do not think you have any issues, I knew before I took it I could do this.
Bows and vanishes.
p.s. I copied the results in case he wishes to dabble.

When any psychic claims, or implies that they are able to replace clinical, or processional roles one needs to be concerned.

It would be most important at that point to get a full statement regarding what they claim, and how they go about doing it, as well as a copy of any fees paid.

n

I dont feel that any psychic or medium should ever replace a professional councelor of any sort. There is a reason why when you go to a psychic or tarot reader is says for entertainment purposes only. When they do their taxes they pay and the entertainment tax and only have to claim 10% of what they bring in.

Damn if I was unethical I could really rake in the cash and not pay much out.

However I would not be able to live with myself let alone sleep at night.

As far as testing goes, if it is going to be considered a paid profession then yes there should be testing. You dont make it through schooling of any kind without testing. It is that testing that is able to place and scale your abilities within your chosen working enviroment. You became an engineer by taking the courses and passing certain tests. any counselor or therapist went the same route. They too had to pass a test. Hell even most exotic dancers have to pass a visual test in order to dance in most decent strip clubs.

I am not saying this to ruffle feathers but it will and this is my opinion. But if you are opossed to testing or learning to find a way for testing of this, then perhaps your ok with being scammed and hacked. I have been to a few different psychics to see what would be said. I tested her abilities by seeing her first with my cousin present, then my cousin went to the same lady at a different venue in a different city a few months later. I went with her and would you believe this woman gave us both identical readings. That burnt me and pissed me off. So yes these people who proclaim to have gifts and proclaim to be so freaking accurate should have to withstand some form of testing to be considered legitimate, before they are allowed to charge.

the first post made me laugh. leave it to the government to try to control everything... but for some reason I can see that happening... they use you to figure something out... and monitor you like a lab rat. =]

thats the life, right there.

I agree with God of chaos.

If I had that type of gift, I would keep it to myself.
But why be tested in the first place? you dont need to prove anything to anyone unless you are trying to make money off of it

That is just the point Vampirechica

Unethical people in any practice get away with scandalous behavior by claiming to be what ever.

What protects the consumer?


You can check the Bar License of any lawyer right?

The degree of any Psychiatrist?

So if psychics what to be taken serious as in a profession, then there should be a Seal, or Degree Standard..

see the assumtion here is that nonbelievers alone would set regulation, and registry requirements.

Actually it is not hard to find moderate readers that are backing amended consumer statements.

O.k...Dabbler...had to throw this in here for your sake and my sanity alone...:P

Self-proclaimed psychics abound and such, but as to a detailed, formalized testing of ability?...The CIA developed one already..."officially" retired now and "declassified", the members of the Stargate Project have written books detailing the many tried and true methods of inner sight.

Being psychic doesn't mean you are omnipotent...it is simply a developed ability of accessing information that would otherwise be left up to random intuition.

Great book...check it out sometime, I'm sure you can find it on Amazon...but should clue you in as well as anyone else actually interested in the real science behind being psychic or aka "sensitive."

Remote Viewing by David Morehouse, Ph.D.

A bonefied. CIA "psychic" employed for the specific job of locating and accessing information of enemy targets or whatever else they want.

For anyone else that would prefer a website to peruse for research's sake:

http://www.remoteviewed.com/remote_viewing_history_military.htm

The reason so many psychics develop in one area or another is the fact that so many are only dabbling in the arts of the mind also known in shamanic circles as "shamanic journeying"...new agers refer to it as "astral projection"...the military calls it "remote viewing"...different names, same thing...it presents the inherent fact that we...as diverse a group of human beings can be have the propensity to develop not only individual talents but latent powers hidden deep within our minds.

oh..yes...and quite frankly, if all pursued it or were taught early on the qualities and depths those inherent latent talents, one would find the commonality alone would make it a commodity less demanded...thereby the market to "sell" psychic reading would suffer a huge decline and less and less individuals wouldn't be so inclined to part with their money.

You might want to check out, "Men who stare at Goats".

Remote viewing has yet to produce any significant journal material relating to alleged research.

for registration purpose a simply review by a peer group, including not just their talent, but their ethics, and practice.. how they advertise, charge, and such. not just focused on the actual reading accuracy.

Prettying interesting considering that about 5 to 6 years ago a guy IM'ed me saying he was a government tested remote viewer expressing that he could see someone's name over my head, like a companion watching over me. Never met the guy before and the name was right on the money.

"Prettying interesting considering that about 5 to 6 years ago a guy IM'ed me saying he was a government tested remote viewer expressing that he could see someone's name over my head, like a companion watching over me. Never met the guy before and the name was right on the money"

This is not a te3stimony thread. On the internet? Government aligned person, how obvious is that come on?

" Hi, I know your name?" On the internet?

" I am a remote viewer."

Sorry that lacks any depth.

Perhaps that was read wrong. I wasn't saying he knew MY name.

could see someones name associated with you, still not a big stretch on the internet. What significance does someone apparently knowing some name (btw was it a full name) what practical purpose was served, except maybe to astonish you?

What a reader practices is what determines the need for registry. Why do those who imply that psychics are professionals have a missionary statement?

It is a cut throat business btw, mediums, and psychics, and to this I have first hand evidence.

Those whop apply their ability on a moderate level are
plagued by unethical individuals, and it seems that when someone bilks a person, or persons that the collective turns to denial, and declares that person to be a fraud..

why not an unethical gifted individual? it just seems so arbitrary.

Thanks for clearing that up, Dabbler

But if the nonbelievers are the only ones coming up with the standards, then how are they supposed to be met?
What if these standards are completely whack- some that not even the most gifted psychic could never meet?

If you note, I already posted a few ideas that were presented by psychic groups above.

A statement from psychics collectively to prospective consumers, that tell a person what is unreasonable, and what should be avoided as far as seeking a psychic to do a reading.

Well i have to admit, i was astonished and since the name does have a special meaning to me personally, i think it would be very RARE if anybody could do that again without having some sort of special talent. Btw, another viewpoint here....if he was trying to gain something personally, it never happened. He was just enlightening me of his gifts. Nobody else knows that particular name because I never talk about it. :)

*my final post btw* Continue....

That's why I was confused... sounded like you were contradicting yourself, lol

We have health inspectors, building inspectors, why not a psychic inspector?

That is all conjecture, and perhaps bias though, testimony is just that, relative to you. You would probably say.. "I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't have heard it." So in that context it is inadmissible. and still not relative to the thread.

A topic for another thread perhaps?

Or even a poll?

Not to personally denounce you, it is just that I have nothing physical to refer to.

I am not saying you are lying I am just saying you may have missed a rational explanation for what you witnessed, as in he may have been associated with you as another profile on IM before associating with you from another.. any number of possibilities..

I understand... im not after a poll, im after thoughts and opinions.
But thanks for the input

:)

I am not a man that stares at freakin goats.

Do not miss the point, in reference to Hollywoods' complete lack of imagination in turning Project Stargate into a total complete farce, when in fact the program turned out some very good methodology...I'm not referring to "results"...but in perspective of psycho-analytical and replicable neurological "training."

Just as it is proven that epileptics have been documented "controlling" their brain wave activity with EEG and now MRA imaging, the simple fact is that training the brain is applicable in developing "heightened awareness." It doesn't matter how many flippin goats fainted in the movie..the precedence of the that experiment along with countless others "not covered" in that comedic narrative show higher potentials of mental capacity and capability exceeds the standard of the socially accepted function of the human brain.

In other words, to create a criteria of measuring apptitude for psychic awareness is limiting to the fact that development is the point of changing those limitations. A major point in extending one's awareness in prayer or meditation (which accesses Theta and Delta dreaming brain waves where visions and other accessabel intuitive information is gleaned from the subconcious) is primarily "relaxation."

"Stress" is overall, a great hinderance and nullification of enabling control and access to these specific waves. How many people in general here can say they live a "stress-free" life? How many more can honestly say they take "time" to be quiet and actually meditate, focusing inwardly and capturing these waves riding out the surf of intuition?

As a hypersensitive individual with epilepsy who experiences such waves of intuition, stress is a key factor of interference, thus perhaps in direct answer to your thread's question...a pre-requisite of anyone delving into psychic/mental means of aquiring information beyond the known physical norms would be one that is daily involved in meditation and prayer practice, as these activities require "alone" time and relaxation.

Considering that most meditations and prayers are performed with eyes closed, I highly doubt anyone will be staring at goats.

Thou every person in the world little or more psychic, it is depends on the growth of subconscious on regular basis. Person can feel it but can not register the out come on its psychic exercises. This is my opinion. Coz answers are different from the achievement and may misguided.

sorry little correction, replace thou with though

Great silver hawk, when the journals are published, and the they are reviewed and duplicated by peers I will be glad to accept such things, until then what has any Psychic, PSI based "Institute" produced? I mean heck here they are smirking at ologist' to "Prove something", and " why haven't the Mystics in all their gifted knowing produced anything? The base of psychics has always been more novel then Professional, when people start to say it has potential, it is up to them to demonstrate consistently what they claim. Plan and simple.

but I regress back to the thread.

Vampire Chic, I refered not to your post but to nephty thank you all.

oh..ouch..here's a random thought for you...instead of sitting on the side lines waiting for someone else to bring you the proof of that heightened awareness is achieveable..not just to a "chosen few" who are arrogant enough to hawk it to the gullible...but an achievable sythesis to anyone who makes an effort..why don't you test it out yourself?

I mean, seriously...I don't take somebody else's word for it. I've read the methodology to access higher awareness and I put it to the test myself and have found positive results on an individual basis. On another note, psychic awareness, in my opinion is not meant to be a marketable consumer product. Those that push it as such are nothing more than bad car salesman.

As psychic awareness is dependent upon the individuals state of individual growth, to measure it on levels of achievement also depends upon what area of psychic/paranormal applications you would single out as the epitome of earning merit by peers. Again, that would pretty well smack of "holier than thou" attitudes, which is prevalent enough in social standings or casts no matter what culture you come from.

Again, to be sure a proper measurement that any level of heightened awareness in any individual that was to come to the forefront and be "tested" would be an estimate of how much time they spend a day in meditation. As for what has anyone accomplished by doing this?..Why not go to the mountain and ask a Tibetan monk? Or better yet, actually apply it yourself on a regular basis as an experiment and reserve judgement after compiling your own results.Psychic awareness is not meant to be a parlor trick or a marketable Hasbro toy to be plucked off the shelf.

It is available and accessable to every individual willing to develop their own self awareness beyond the five senses. It is knowledge and the many approaches to access it and what you do with that knowledge is what makes the difference between someone who's scamming and someone who earnestly uses it to help others.

As for finding a psychic with actual "accuracy" to win that Million Dollar Challenge of which would benefit the individual making an attempt to be lucky enough to guess the answers, well then, let's get back to the point of this thread...how does one measure levels of ability?

Pre-requites should include practices of individual meditation/prayer, history of physical trauma, history of any mental illness, medical history of neurological disease that could or could not influence an individual's level of development...(since movies seem to be a greater source of imagery, think of Phenomenon).

The truth of an idividual's experiences, to weed out the imaginative fabrications can easily be recorded using lie detection methods and pupilometry. MRA and Pet scan can also rule out individuals who are otherwise convincing but still questionable.

Then each individual with established heightened awareness pre-requisites would be split up into appropriate groupings working with the abilities they have primarily developed as an individual and test these persons accordingly in that area of pyshic awareness to determine a level of ability.

As a footnote: Livestock need not apply.

Silverhawk is 100% true. Everyone is naturally born psychic. It's a frequency that we have to tune ourselves to, like a radio signal. But we are all connected to it, and can access it if we know how. My last girlfriend was a psychic, and has actually developed an online psychic development course.If anyone is interest, just let me know.

But as for the question of how to quantify it, that's a vague question. How accurate you are is kind of self evident, I imagine.

I would not be opposed to learning more about developing this ability. I have had strong psychic flashes quite often (different from intuitive flashes, although I believe that plays a part in it).

However, I am skeptical as to those that want to bill me for a psychic class, as, how would I determine that they are truly gifted as opposed to just wanting an easy income?

Furthermore, if they are so gifted, what credibility is given to them to teach others? Were they born with this, or did they, too, learn it from someone? If so, where can I get my psychic teaching license?

I would rather check out books on those that are said to have psychic abilities, and see if there is a common practice (ie meditation) that they all do in an attempt to further develop these powers.

Silver hawk, thank you, our point of agreement.


"On another note, psychic awareness, in my opinion is not meant to be a marketable consumer product. Those that push it as such are nothing more than bad car salesman."

Thank you as well Blu Spirit.

I'm not sure if everyone is born with it... because... eventhough we'd LOVE to believe this to be true... not everyone is born with common sense... so if some people miss something so simple... it makes me doubt that everyone is born with a gift of psychic abilities...

Being attentive is a developed ability, ones environment, and persons of influence determine our capacity to "read" other people.

anyone can learn to speak in general terms (which is what psychics tend to do plenty of.

Mentalist learn demographic staples, after combining that to above average observation skills, and a knack for noting micro expressions .. you have a detective, or a mentalist. Same thing Psychics do, only some in unethical capacities, meaning they exploit, and create dependencies leading their clients to believe they, and only they can help them.. after bombarding them with
either ill-gotten data, or hitting on a cold probe.

So in a manner this thread is not about are psychics mystical, or ESP gifted, but how to inform the consumer, and how to represent the ethical practices.

While I completely agree with Dabbler regarding Mentalist methods, as I follow this conversational thread, what then is the skeptic's view of a psychic?

Are all psychic's mentalists and just really great at reading peoples' body language and expressions? And what aspects of other areas of this field are you expressly wanting psychics to measure as nominative Levels?

As Nemo stated, and I also agree, your initial query is "vague" and needs clarification as it seems you only agree with me on one point and by that indicates you do not assimilate the connection of meditation to accessing and developing heightened awareness? What? Shall we hold up cards out of a deck and guess the picture to guage one's ability?

It seems apparent to me that there's quite a bit of stereo-typing being administered straight across the board and no real consideration of the perspective you "asked" for "from" psychics...?? Or do I misinterpret?

A GOC...I believe it is possible and accessible to develop heightened awareness in each person with an able mind. As I indicated in my last post, Imaging alone could help indicate if a person has the "working" ability of a fully-functional brain. As you say, not everyone is born with common sense...but common sense has never been a pre-requisite for being human...at the very least, those folks keep us laughing at the party...;)

Then in such cases, it would be all physiological, and nothing illogical, or uber natural about it.

Heightened awareness is physical, and neurological related then. So what I would be curious of is why the extraordinary claims of mysticism.

I have read articles, and if I can find them I will post them, that people cater to peoples wanting to hear from "divine", or "universal forces" because they already know what they are likely to hear from others, they also like the illusion that mystical psychics offer them, the illusion that the "universe", or "divine' is following their daily whoa.

People are very suggestive when mysticism is invoked, saying "I personally think you need to let go of this matter.." to a person is something a counselor would say.

Psychics (depending on the ethics) are saying "The universe wants you to..'

and I have seen people shop around for what they want to hear, and they pay dearly..

so putting the awareness aside..
What is ethical, and unethical psychic behavior?

Ah...so therein is the heart of it..thank you for clarifying your true question.

What is ethical and what is not? Psychics vs Counselors?...Psychics or Mystics? I can only give you my opinion as I can only do so according to truth as I percieve it from my personal experience and not one that is derived from a conglomerate tabloid of commercialized ideals.

I believe, the largest point of mass misunderstanding regarding psychic or heightened awareness, call it what you will-it matters not to me, is that it is of an "all-powerful" mystical/spiritual origin. Religions and Theologies either expound on this phenomenon as being purely and wholly "from God" and "not of ourselves" while others may suppress it completely dependent upon their doctrines.

However, due to my personal experiences, not only as an epileptic with an opened neurological capacity to have heightened awareness and psychic "events," not all instances can be rationally explained as being directly connected to my seizure activity.

I believe in the Creator with all my heart, I've had a very spiritual existence my whole life and that heightened awareness is something I experience on a daily basis..much of it is very subtle. Meditation and prayer is a basic format for taking the time to relax and excercise the capacities of my mind.

However, in stronger, more powerful experiences I've had, many who have witnessed alliterate it is "God" who has "worked through me" and while according to any one person's theology that might appear true, personally, I cannot attribute those wholly and completely to spiritual matters that seem "unattainable" or "untouchable" as people are taught in many doctrines that "they cannot ever know God."

Is this phenomenon purely mental and therefor of a physical quality? In part, it is...but it is also spiritual in nature and therefore mystical. What is mystical if not spiritually significant or symbolic? What is spiritual if not of the spirit or soul as distinguished from the body or material matters. For centuries, even unto our modern day, people have had psyhic or spiritual experiences and percieved the elements of these not being corporeal as to explain it was an untangible thing. While we learn more of the human brain and its capacities, much of these once mysterious "knowings" can now be attributed to mentalist technique and the curious workings of a physical, tangible organ able to pick up on the various types of energy waves, and convert these to specific thought or ideas.

However, how many people can say they've read up on the new neurological discoveries or follow any science as a whole...really?...The masses of the general populace relate to what is within their daily lives, work, family, and church. Thus, due to lack of knowledge and understanding, many are led along by the bull ring in their nose by social, cultural and religious upbringing.

I was raised to search out my own answers, to read and learn, to draw my own conclusions and not lean on the understanding of others. Thankfully, because I have been around well-intentioned people, who, because of their "sheeple mentality," believed that I was afflicted with the "Devil's Disease" and in order for me to properly be "saved," congregations laid hands on me to "heal" me of my epilepsy...against my consent, as a teenager. I was confused, they seemed to think that I could not have a relationship with God simply because I was epileptic and I remember looking at these people, earnest as they were, completely dumbfounded to judge my spirituality based on their collective truth and not on actual fact.

Therefore, due to past experience, as my intuitive awareness developed and I began to have events that defied all "known" explanation, it was attributed to God..but how confusing is that if I have a demonic disease process? How much of a stretch is it for these same masses to look upon shady psychic salesman...often standing behind the pulpit...and not seek out answers through someone who seemingly has a "direct" line to the Divine?

Here then is the miscarriage of ethics and advantageous exploitation of misguided and poorly educated people. This is nothing new and certainly not limited to marketing psychic ability.

As a result of my own questioning nature about my personal experiences, I cannot attribute all of my events to being quantifiably of a physical or epileptic nature...there are some experiences I have had that even defy that logic and often happen without warning, without intent, most often while I'm minding my own business. These events occur at least 3-4 times a year, and I promise you..it's not something I relish to repeat as most often they concern death or related events that caused or could cause someone elses demise.

I can't explain it, even being my own best skeptic...I don't even know how to begin, but I personally feel that while much of our human,physical-psychic ability, however developed an individual is or is not, not all "truly" pyschic experiences are wholly attributed or explainable by measurable means at this time. Thus in some situations, I can only attribute those experiences to what I term as Divine Providence, as it goes beyond my own understanding and defies the logical and the fundamental physical laws we live by.

What is ethical then that should be attributed in psychic circles, whether they "sell" their wares or not? Ethics are simply a code of conduct, a moral standard set up for a group , religion, profession or a particular person...considering that a lot of people who construct their professional life upon psychic ability, conduct themselves by their own moral standard and seeing as there is no particular organized group...straight across the board...to certify and regulate ethical behavior as is done in the medical field (and yet also not in public education)...the rules of etiquette are wholly reliable upon who you talk to and the culture and socially acceptable morals of a given community...so it is inherently variable and while personally, I do not feel that using these developed abilities as a commodity is an acceptable means of making a living, there will be others who feel that it is perfectly fine. The law of supply and demand will continue to rule in this area.

The power of suggestion is ultimately the nexus between what we deem as tangible and what is percieved as mystical. Psychics should not count themselves as counselors unless otherwise professinally trained. People can only give advice, whether by psychic means or not, and thus information and knowledge given, should be done so, not as a mystical guidance to others but to encourage their aptitude in making their own well-informed decisions without prejudice and bias.

It is only information, take it or leave it, but information should also be handled and distributed wisely and with understanding.While I have yet to understand all the things I experience on a "psychic" level and can only attribute to that Divine Providence, I still persist to search out the answers behind it because I require an explanation to my own experiences rather than lean on any other individual or group understanding of consumate truths. Perhaps if all proclaimed psychics, and people in general, did this, these psychics would perhaps be less likely as arrogant in taking advantage of an even lesser gullible populace with opened and equal understanding.

Where does intuition play into this? A gut feeling can have the same results...do they come from the same place? Is it that some are more open to the unseen guides?

I think there will always be a debate whether or not psychics are real and or valid. I think the problem is how the conumer is treated and whats in place to protect the consumer.

Think about it there are all kinds of ethical practices and restrictions in place in all different walks of business and life to protect the consumer so why not in this field of study. A counselor, a psychiatrist, a psychotherapist, and etc,etc, etc.... all have a set of guidelines they all need to go by. So why is it that when people go to or spend money and time with someone who could potentially guide them onto a path that could devastate them are there no ethical guide lines to go by.

Well, to clarify my own very personal experience, I've been with this girl for several years, so I've witnessed quite alot.

Her method isn't to "mentally" analyze a person and elaborate on perceived details. She tunes herself into a psychic state(which doesn't even require the person to be there; she often does readings over the phone) where she then speaks to her spirit guides; her personal non-physical spirits, angels, whatever you want to call them. From this state, which is merely attuning yourself to your third eye, she pulls extremely specific details about the lives of whom ever she's reading.

Now, I'm rather a skeptic myself, and I can tell the difference between psychic information and "mentalism." Shit like telling a mother that her daughter who just died had a small, red teddy bear that's currently sitting on her bed, and having met this mother for the very first time. She'll use catch phrases of recently deceased people that you would never know unless you intimately and personally knew the deceased. She'll tell you the location of lost keys, clothes, jewelry, you name it.

This is no mere "intuition" or mentalism. With the degree of detail and the continuity with which it occurs, this is a scientifically quantifiable phenomena.

And yes, we are all innately psychic. Saying we can't all be psychic is like saying we couldn't all learn how to dance if we wanted, or learn how to read music, or solve a mathematical equation. Just because we are not predisposed to doing something, doesn't mean we can't train ourselves to do it. There's nothing you do now that at some point in the past, you didn't know how to do. Psychic ability is the same thing.

Nemo, but once again the account you give is hearsay, and subject to conjecture.

Nothing personal but every person who is pro-psychic pitches the same script.

That's because everyone who has experienced a true psychic phenomena attests to the same thing. And were you to actually come across a legitimate psychic, or experience your own personal psychic ability, that would be your script too.

I will totally agree that there are frauds. I will agree that people talk alot of talk without walking alot of walk. But just because there are mediocre psychics/posers out there doesn't meant that psychic ability itself is a sham.

It's seriously a matter of experience. It's entirely appropriate to question something until you have. But just because you haven't seen it, it doesn't mean it's not real.

See that is the assumtion that every believer makes, assuming that everyone who doesn't believe never believed, You have no idea how many people I know who became jaded by the psychic, and spiritualist circuit.

All the testimonies sounding scripted, and then watching a group reading that is marginal at best, falling way short of the high regards given by True Believers.

I just wonder why you feel the need to convince me?

Are you validated by building your case?

Someone you know, testified to some astonishing demonstration.. what does that relate? How does that apply? What is significant about that, to you? To your friend. to me?

As it stands, PSI, ESP, and metaphysics have brought nothing to the table, yet most proponents of same attack science with venom, and distain.

So all metaphysics have to do is present something with substance that can pass scrutiny by nonbiased observers.


Until then it would serve ethical psychics well to police themselves regarding unethical psychics, and poser psychics.

Ethical psychics should police themselves? From what? Others who portray it as a parlor trick? Or from those who would stereo-type all who have developed their inner sight as being frauds? It seems to me Dabbler, you've already made a conclusive judgement based on your personal experience being burned by these same tabloid psychics who take advantage of no regulation by an ethics committee.

ESP has brought nothing to the table?.. yet I hold a recently published book on the topic written by a graduate of Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine on that very topic. I would think..if you truly want to read something that "brings it to the table," you'll want to check out The ESP Enigma - The Scientific Case for Psychic Phenomena by Diane Hennacy Powell, M.D. Here's an excerpt for your consideration:

"Placing the Mobius Mind Model in Perspective

We all sit in a circle and suppose, while the secret sits in the center and knows. --Robert Frost

Robert Frost's statement serves as a reminder that scientific theories or models are only an attempt to approximate truth by using the facts we have available. That is the purpose of the Mobius mind model, which can be summarized as follows:

1. Psychic phenomena appear to be both real and a potential in all of us.

2. Dreaming, meditating, synesthesia, astral projection, and the midns of autistic savants are all conditions or states of consciousness in which psychic abilities can be enhanced; all show a shift away from the usual dominance of brain activity in the left hemisphere and from the cortex to the limbic system.

3. DMT is a chemical produced by our pineal glands that also exists in plants. It has been used for millennia by shamans to create psychic experiences. Consistent with the states mentioned abouve, it stimulates the limbic system to be more active than the cortex.

4. Consciousness has the properties of a force that can act upon the physical world both locally and remotely. The four major forces in physics have fields that influence matter within their reach. If our consciousness is a fifth physical force, it also has a field. And like other fields, consciousness would exist both within and beyond its source.

5. Occurrences of out-of-body experiences and psychic phenomena are well documented. This implies that we can access information from other locations in space and time. As a force, consicousness would not be confined to our brains, but this does not mean that consciousness travels vast distances to retrieve distant information. A simpler explanation is that we have greater access to our entire consciousnes fields during OBE's and psychic states, and that our consciousness fields contain a miniature representation of the universe. This idea is consistent with David Bohm's theory that our universe is holographic, and each part contains information about the whole.

6. Time and space cannot be separated. Instead, they form a matrix called space-time. Because the past, present, and future all coexist, foreseeing the future becomes possible. However, in this model the future can still be changed and we are able to excercise free will.

7. Our universe is multidimensional and highly interconnected. These connections and other dimensions are not readily apparent in our usual state of consciousness, during which our inner and outer worlds appear to be separate. But like a Mobius strip, the inner and outer worlds are contiguous. They also interact in a dynamic process of mutual influence.


"Psychic phenomena and other psychological anomalies are pushing us toward developing a new theory about consiousness, although they imply a reality that is so mind-boggling that they remain controversial. But a paradigm shift is already happening, even though there is a major opposition. Skepticism and opposition are characteristics of paradigm shifts, recognized by the nineteenth-century philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer, who said, "All truth goes through three stages. First it is ridiculed. Then it is violently opposed. Finallya, it is accepted as self-evident. We have been in the second stage, but we are approaching the third.

"For anyone who is interested in understanding the workings of the mind and our complex interaction with the world around us, turning a blind eye to psychic phenomenon is no more an option than refusing to believe that spacecraft landed on the moon simply because we cannot explain the physics that made such a feat possible. Albert Einstein summarized the importance of exploring our ideas about ourselves when he said,

A human being is a part of the whole, called by us the "Universe" He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as somthing separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature.

"The ESP Enigma represents a shift that could become the next major evolutionary leap in understanding ourselves and our place in the universe. In the past we have created our own prisons by holding on to limited beliefs about what is possible. Perhaps we now can being to open up our minds and unlock the gates."


I truly grieves my heart to know that you allude to such a horrible experience with unethical performers using mentalist techiniques to wow the crowd as poser magicians...those of us here, myself, Nemo, and many others know the difference between shady con-artists and the real-deal...many of us live it....sometimes, just purely "hooked-up" by the physical nature of our individual brains and nervous systems....but what is psychic phenomenon itself if not the link humanity as a whole seeks to bridge the gap between the mortal flesh and the Divine? It is spiritual in its aspects on many levels and yet also manifested via physical means.

As for this neurologist, she has answered in confirmation so many of my own conclusions and yet has illuminated my darkened understanding regarding the link between my epilepsy and my own 6th sense.
As for that eternal conjecture of "what has any journal brought to the table?" Well, plenty in the medical world and in others...unless you're biased already to refuse in reading this summary of research much less so many others I could bring to the table...I can assure you, the doctor does not stare at goats, nor do I...but perhaps you might reserve your judgements after reading all that is brought to the table.

Sincerely searching for truth and answers here on my side of things...are you?

I agree with Nemo's point of view

Dabbler, it seems to me that even in your case, you are trying very hard to point out to others that most things are probably shams, false or a lie to make people who's minds are easily molded, that every experience that is of any spiritual relation MUST HAVE some sort of scientific backing.

In my viewpoint, everything between the spiritual and science go together. Sure i think everything can be proven in some form, it's just a matter of having the technology backing to do it.

People who have a personal experience by someone who actually CAN perform such abilities doesn't make it easy for the person to prove it , esp on a website such as this.

A person who doesn't have any belief in a deity, doesn't exactly mean they are unopened to the possibility of a personal experience to present itself. It just means, it hasn't happened for them.

It's really not right to discredit everyone here that adds their 2 cents of their experiences even if you don't have your proof. That's like calling everybody a liar and it's really pointless to keep pointing out to everyone that "it's just heresay".

If you didn't have the least bit of curiousity within you about such topics, you wouldn't be posting here in the first place, so it's obvious you have SOME interest.

And you are constantly pointing out that others are trying to convince YOU that there's something more, but yet , aren't you doing the same thing to push most things are a lie or a sham everytime someone has something to share here?

Not trying to disrespect or anything but that's what i'm getting from reading above responses.

I never said anything about "proof".

Have I not said over and over again, weather or not one believes that the source for psychic phenomena is mystic or not, that it needs to represent to the consumer.

I have personal experience that you have no idea how I am aware of practices in the industry, you assume to much.

Thank you for at least agreeing in some degree that there is fraud, and unethical practices.