The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

There can be a number of scientific explanations for "supernatural" powers such as the ability to control the chemistry and activity of your body through willpower and pure understanding of how your body works. There are a number of people who have done a great number of amazing things this way. I know of at least two. One of them can control their core temperature abling them to survive in extreme cold which would kill anyone else. I also know a woman who can divert massive amounts of electricity through her body without so much as a superficial burn. Does anyone else know people like this?

I only know of one person and that is my brother he can and has done both of what you just said

Supernatural person is reffered as the hyper person who able to treat matter hyper and can swell easily on hyper plane and thus can impact on materialstic world from differentplane of ability.

These peepal are called Para-psychic too

Example David Blaine

Eh, its my opinion only.

I don't know why light blinks when my thoughts turn to different wave. its not mirage at all. its true and notthefault of my vision or lences. I checked it. Nor itis drowning stage nor it is coma stage not anyvision error.

much more alike things.

Not nessessarily super-natural, but things could be explained as arcane or unorthodox phenomenon. Like the Shaolin for example, they can do many wonderous things with ALL of their body parts, but by practice alone... Not by powers beyond our belief.

Such as telling the history of an item or picture just by either looking at it or touching it, (something-mancy, I cannot think of the term) I will instead call it cryptomancy, divination by unrevealed means.

I will not submit what my gifts are, these are for personal use alone and not to be sensationalised, nor advertised.

its not swell its dwell the hell tomy typing.... I am drowned now to lose my thoughts.

(Bows in utmost reverence)

Yes you are true Hnorable Soul Shroud

First off...in my opinion the supernatural is nothing more then figments of peoples imaginations.

David Blaine is nothing more then an illusionist....slight of hand artist...nothing more.

Power of suggestion is a tool that the brain has over many people.If you truly want to believe something...even if it is proven faked or a hoax,your brain will convince you it is the truth.

What brought David Blaine into this discussion?

Well every common nature peepal can perform endurance. He is truely street performer. Only illusionist.



he is making haudini alive again.

I am agree that david blaine is common person with common skills.

The misunderstanding of the word street performer...

its performing without stage or not in opera.

I ask again, what brought David Blaine, who is an incredible street perfomer/illusionist into a thread that alludes to individuals that have true gives that defy the laws of science and would conclude to be arcane phenomena?

I apologise for the act.

I felt he is truely supernatural person going upper levels of supernatural acts. This led e to eloborate his name feeling that he elevated self to above the levels than great hypnotists.

All simple illusions and nothing more. We could say the same thing for "Chris 'Mind Freak' Angel." Both are professionals at their craft, but... Both are illusionists as well as belong to the Council of Magic(k).

Everyone has the actual ability to do such "Supernatural" abilities, the only indifference is practicing until perfecting them , or choosing early on as it being Hog Wash and condemning it.
No different than any other talent such as drawing, piano, guitar playing, etc, etc, the list goes on endlessly.
Perfectionism in a choosen talent.

True believers, tend to dispise science, and embrace psuodo science. The russians lead the pack in claiming scientific break thrus of psi studies, but once they are requested to publish or demonstrate they shy away. Numerous times research grants have been swindled via psi studies. Suggested for googling Project Alpha. One other suggested google " holysmoke.org the worlds greatest medium was a fraud keene. Dark wolf put it well. Just when people question the claims made by the billion $ industry of believe-and - you may be healed, some one comes along in a lab coat and spouts jargon that flatters the chums, yet if an acredited scientist accompanied by a skill illvsionist, and pychologist assure people that it is a scam. They scof.

The only thing psycics consistantly demonstrate is the ability to spot a mark, and dodge scrutiny of their claims. I should add that a few card readers are user friendly entertainers ( with no mystic, or super nat pretense) that charge flat rate, or book thru entertainment venues.

~Killbill4u~ states: "Everyone has the actual ability to do such "Supernatural" abilities, the only indifference is practicing until perfecting them , or choosing early on as it being Hog Wash and condemning it.
No different than any other talent such as drawing, piano, guitar playing, etc, etc, the list goes on endlessly.
Perfectionism in a choosen talent."

Wait, did I read that correctly? Drawing, piano, and guitar playing as well as other relevant talents are considered as "supernatural" according to this statement? Hell, the statement says that these specific talents "are no differant then any other talent."

Am I reading too much into this, or can "supernatural" abilities be aquired over time and with practice according to this statement? Give me a plausable reason how "supernatural" abilities could be aquired through practice? As well as examples of such...

If we talk of supernatural ability via practicing, then few actvities such as distant hypnotizm and distant reiki can be achieved through exercises over the period and these two fields are initial achievement and later the real supernatural siddhies come to that exerciser in regular exercises.


But these skills are not born skills. these skils need constant practice regularly.

This is the same not in the case of drawing and craft and singing and music. Coz these acts are called natural fields which human nature supposed to be drown naturally to these fields and born talents go very ahead in these fields by practices.

Supernatural means beyond natural visible materialistic ability or beyond expected meximum ability.

it include the change the natural limits with the application of very high conscious using the intellact.

I would think that there would have to be scientific proof that supernatural abilities exist before scientific explanations can be made.

What would be needed are well designed, double blind studies that any respected university could undertake. Once the abilities are well documented by corroborating studies, scientific explanations can be researched.

How simple would it be for those that you are convinced demonstrate super natural abilities, to submit to research. Natural geoghraphic released a study of special forces soldiers tested in extremes, but as stated above this is due to rigoris conditioning. I would inquire the who, what, where, when, why, and how of what you observed.

well I feel anyone who shows supernatural powers are using more than 10% ofit as the rest of us do.

Mind over matter, who's to say that people will not or do not possess such powers? I feel many of us are connected. wheather it be proven scientific or not.

I forgot to mention my own abilities. I'm what some people call an empath and an energy pool. I can sense peoples feelings when I'm in close contact and I am a giver of energy. I guess you could call me a psi-vamp/energy sink's all-you-can-eat buffet. My sister is also an empath but she isn't an energy pool. She feeds on energy whether she wants to or not.

I know multiple people like this.

I am one of them.

Just very sensitive to others energy, sometimes so much that it affects the way I'M truly feeling and i have to leave the room.

One thing to protect another energy-sensitive person from something like this is to get yourself into a dimly lit, cool place, like a bedroom with the curtains pulled.

And when i really get pissed off because someone puts a song on the radio in my car or a CD in that i don't want to hear, it skips if it is a Cd, (keep in mind i'm not speaking in terms of a scratched up, already known-to-skip CD), and if it's the radio it gets filled with static noise.


I haven't yet met anyone who is much like me in this way...people think a person is crazy if they say this kind of shit. but i know it's real shit.

I can do other things, but they're kind of personal, too personal to put up for everyone to see.
Due to high skepticism, it's not very comfortable-making to put those things out there for ones to read, just yet.

If anyone finds what I have offered interesting, feel free to message me about it.

Now how the hell did a thread pertaining to "super-natural powers" turn into a thread regarding empathy, which in its own right is NOT a super-natural power, but a natural ability that all species has? Some just know how to use it while others do not.

Hmmm.
It isn't a super natural power, that is true.

But I think some people don't choose to use it.
It's an involuntary thing, and with some, it is so intense, that they can pick up on each single emotion in a room of ten people; withholding any demonstration or indication by the persons of said, or rather felt, emotion .

So i think that i can see where and why someone may refer to it as supernatural, in that it gives you a more than natural feeling, more than human sort of...even when you know you're nothing more than human.

As far as scientific explanations for an "empath", there are none unfortunately. No one can or will determine what another individual feels on a physical level. This is virtually impossible, aside from those hospital machines that can see auras (Still can't remember their name).

OK going waaaaaaaaaaaay back up there to the original question.

I believe that i saw a program not to long ago on the discovery channel about these kind of people, that had certain abilities or powers. they were studied and two out of the phone were explained with science. the other to where a mystery.

but it was still a very interesting show.

Yes very rare kids or peepal are born supernatural in any talent its a gift to human nature...

You can say if one kid going to solve any math questions which even its teacher can't solve, it is called supernatural activity. I saw one kid on TV who was solving the math question.

I did read about the 4 year kid remember word to word one of the largest poetic literature (Ramayana - More than 300 pages), this is called superactivity. If such kids involve in the things their involvement level we can imagine and the intellact we can imagine and the level of active gross conscious with awake subtle conscious we can imagine. if one lay them in any good field, what result they will obtain, we can think. Its beyond natural IQ limits.

Its not only human brain, but its human brain backed by memory size and quantum initiation of the processof the analysis by the senses and obtained result using high conscious driving intellact on the matter.

And which lead the nerve tree and which lead the ascension too and which lead the process of setting axis to make things happen.

It all not mere the mind force, behind that is conscious that put the line (direction or command) and the will in the mind commanded to intellact and in the things the energy consumed and its inflow and using it and its regulaton without harming the natural balance of energies and without putting stress or strain on materialistic body. Yes stress and strain are bad sectores and body's subtle management invlve in cleaning it and making those areas alive again...

This all is my opinion only and keen to the kin who have supernatural activity. but in art area such as drawing and etc it is not seem such things but only co-ordination of body, mind and its act. it won't go on processing beyond limit or natural ability. the drawing or painting artist can not do the canvas changing its shades and setches & borders of painting.

I got one supernatural happenings with me an i shocked on it. One day I was so sad and painful that my late night i was sitting when my whole family was sleeping and in sad and pain I was thinking more and more and this was giving me more sad and pain even I was clearly feeling my eyes are torned. At the peak around 3 am just above me there was empty dried polythene bag was hanging and three drops of water of milk sropped on my face, one on my cheek, one on my nose and one on my forehead.

I stood up surprisingly and checked the whole bag there was no wetness at all even of no chance of dropping even single drop and it was dried that one could put sugar in it. (sugar when come into contact with wetness it melt a little). But those three drops took my ne third pain away.

above that bag there was only ceiling it was dry area at all no water in that sitting area, was sitting on chair in the passage where no pipe goes through and no sign of any water I searched the drops, I was sitting n the same chair from 11.30pm when my whole family was sleeping from 11 pm.

Oh and DJ the massive electricity that is diverted, people have been doing this with Tesla coils for a while now, it also depends on how the electricity is being diverted weather it can be called supernatural or technology.

If you concentrate on bulb accessively, you can fuse it. Its not the technology... it is driving the energy without using external means or tools or axis....

The kinetic energy easily can be moved by deep pulling with high concentration via your ascension. it is the easiest things for science to reasoning why this happened and to wipe the deep concentration work of that poor fellow....

even you can do this easily by deep forceful pulling from away...

You can say science of Super natural activity... :)

I haven't personaly been to America before, but how would I truely know America is real or not? Just because somebody has not experienced something for being "supernatural", then does it make it not real for anybody else?

DJ you have nothing to post on topic? Behavioural study has researched those who are obsessed with claiming to have powers, they call it delusions of grandure. Such people often possess inadiquite social skills, thus they claim to have powers that quote defy reason. This thread became a how-mystic-am-I thread. You imply that science is "stumped" by what people claim as super natural. All it is, is suggestable people performing side show stunts, and parlor games. So I challenge you to provide evidence that such demonstrations are not as I state. Or perhaps you would just keep spouting unsupported claims.
Morbid T you referance the 10% fallacy, in this context I sense ( not by mystic powers) that those who profess to posses powers and gifts rely on people to not engage the area of the brain dedicated to rational thought. Any other claimed powers DJ? So tell us what science doesn't know? Why are you not personally at the lead of the application of supposed supa' nat' powas'? It appears skeptics, cynics, and even believers want to see something.

Ok folks enough bit*hing and ranting, lets get back on topic shall we? I believe that the thread title was "Scientific explanations for supernatural powers" This title encompasses many things, both supernatural through physical will, and supernatural phenomenon. I think everyone has missed the point, or that the thread should have been titled "Does anyone know people w/ supernatural powers through physical will alone." Although I am sure there is some way to shorten that..*smiles* Anyway there is this asian doctor, who is able to generate massive amounts of heat through his hands or feet in order to help relax or heal damaged muscles. This was shown on "believe it or not" and his medical process was videotaped, both with regular film and with infared. There was undeniable proof that he was doing this of his own will and through his own ability. Some people see this as supernatural ability. I think that it is just the ability of the human brain, if only we were able to use the whole thing, there would be no telling as to what we would be able to do.

What exactly is supernatural?
Just because I don't understand it doesn't mean it isn't real or unexplainable. Perhaps we just haven't discovered the physical laws yet that explain it.
I do not believe in the supernatural. There is a natural law to explain everything, though I doubt seriously that science has yet reached the point that it can say, "we now know it all."
If a fourth or fifth dimension exist, they are not supernatural they are completely natural, we just don't understand them or have the ability to explain them yet.
Anything that exists, is by it's nature as an existance, natural. Just because we do not have a scientific model to explain it does not make unnatural or supernatural
I find it hard to believe that there are those who deny the existance of a "supreme being" and in the same breath profess to believe in the supernatural. Without a supreme being there could be no supernatural.

My older sister, Myrtille, can understand someone's wants or intentions with their slightest gesture. She studied this with me but as I never excelled she did and can appear to have no emotion when she is truly about to rip out someone's throat. She delights in "reading" peoples motions and giving them confusing answers to sub-conscious desires. Quite funny if I may say so myself.

~Roque~, I do that quite often actually, especially at work.

As for the "supa-natral-powa" comment, what about preternatural, does this count? I tink I can, I tink I can...

Well accounted, thank you for refiring the thread. I agree the thread title sould be " does any one have 'super nat powa'" at least I am assured you read my post DJ. My point was relevent, ( nice?) no, practical yes. To cont. With topic rogue vamp addressed para psycology, para physiology, Mentalist, stage mesmeru'r, and confidence. Simple in that it plays on peoples expectation of complex (mystical). Like the social behaviour study on the sucsess of medicine shows. The prof. printed an ad that tells a story of lucky bird droppings, 100 people sent 5 in. The sent the money back. I take the para phsyio. I have seen behind the scene in a spiritualist center, I attended parlor mixers, where even with a clear disclaimer that no " psi, mystic, or dievn power was "tapped"" the perf. Keep you guessing. So of all claims, and demos, how many are performances. Motivated by piety, or finacial. How do you suggest "ologies' deduct the "guenuine" among the, role players, sensationalist, Performers?

Preternatura? vvSoulshroudevv, that is actually a good point.

Dabbler, was saying that some people actually use less than 10% of their brain capabilities, whether it be intentional or not. where other people use more than 10 % may have a greater understanding or openess to things around them/us. So they are justmore intune and possess certain capabilities is all. I mean no one is exact in how they think or use or work their brain yet, we do know that some use less and soem use more....

I think it's funny that people scoff about "supernatural powers" and claim things like empathy aren't as so are other abilities. What we need to realize, is there is no supernatural powers, there is only what science hasn't yet explained which doesn't mean these abilities are not within our grasp, for some people moreso than others.

People need to stop taking a movie-like view about all the topics discussed on this forum, especially if we are trying to understand each other without ignorance, lack of understanding, and biasness.

Thank you ps1 that is what I was trying t get across :)

I also subscribe to the concept of hidden abilities in the brain.

That is true people have abilities that they may not even know they possess cause they do not venture out to pursue it. Society as a whole has become lazy in my *opinion* we rely way to much on technology and do not use or minds/brains as much as we should ... yet as I said just my opinion.

I really think members should look up definitions of certain words before performing a thread relating to subjects that they do not entirely comprehend.

There are always explanations for certain areas of life, but when the actual term is not used, this tends to confuse the audience. I did hint on how this thread should have been related IE preturnatural abilities.

As far as other claimed "powa's" posters may claim what they will at any time, this does not mean the words are true to their nature. Hell, I can say that I can see the souls of people, but to believe this just out of my own post ... Would you be this naive? I don't think so. Never believe everything you read online.

Another thread that had degenerated into a snipping match, folks if you don't agree with another members post, you can politely argue it. The argumentative posting stops now.

"hidden abilities in the brain" care to clarify??

I think that there might be scientific explanations for different situations where people have supernatural powers. I think people are born with supernatural powers they just realize them at some point.

supernatural/ hidden abilities etc. however one would like to characterize them . Some are more intune with things than other and that is just a fact. Science or not, there just are some things that cannot be explained away no matter how hard you try.

Morbid t the 10% idea is debunked. It was jargon for a professed institute that claimed it had a method to expand the brains usage, those who enrolled should have used logic because they was scammed ( common with such things.) I am reading post that imply science is stumped by the occults claims of supa powa, yet that is all they deliever. Calling people who reserve subscribing to the occult ignorant is unwarrented. When what convicts the believers is a demonstration. So behaviour science made there case. Not one person professing science as stumped showed up! Some one mention, there are things that are not explainable by science. Those who claim such things not only fail to demonstrate, but fail to offer more then a vague, " it is mysterious." The application of supa occult powa is apparently to astonish, and mystify would be converts.

For a person to be ignorant, it is implied that something obviously exist. That the person ignores the obvious presence of something. Supa nat occult powa is not blaringly obvious. Often claimed, never demoed, so what occultist want is for people to take their word for it, the same occultist who often declare, " i would have believed until i saw.. " refrain from calling those who dont subscribe biassed, ignorant. Some here have "been there, believed that, got a clue, and opened their eyes."

Well let me put it another way;

There are things out there that has not yet been discovered by anyone, for science to explore and explain.

I am also sure that they do have things in their possession that they are tring to understand it /them/whatever. and explain it to us.

Sometimes things just CAN'T be explained by science sometimes...
I honestly don't have so much in faith in scientists figuing their hypothesis and
explanations of things often change when they stumble upon "new technology".

I think science is just there so people can BELIEVE they understand it.... but really... do they? They might understand a few things... but science has yet to scrape the surface of the world of questions that people ask.

Morbid T, When people expect astonishing revelation, what becomes of lifes simple discovers? To have faith ( belief without evidence) is commonly held for " insurance while dying". When beliefs are extended into claims of physical endowment (powers) then even those who share a faith with those making the claim ( to have witness or posses such physical endowment) do not always subscribe to the claim. Not all who are skeptic are non believers. What has been discovered is the history of practices those who exploit those with moderate faith, ( content without astonishment) for various motives. Many who are draw to such sentationalism, are often left with more questions then answers. Even stage illusionist revealed the tricks they performed to demonstrate how those who operated under pretense of super nat endowment appeared mystical.

Koss, so hostile toward science. Please share what you feel the occult has ever contributed to humankind's advancement. Science is not an ism. Occultist please share a link to the vast discoveries made by occultist, regarding occult supa powers. How occultist love junk science that cater to their pet hyperbole.

Dabbler said*Morbid T, When people expect astonishing revelation, what becomes of lifes simple discovers?*


I did not say that people was expecting astonishing revelations, not by any means. I simple said that there are things that have not been scientifically explained ..yet... please read what I stated, and please do not assume I am meaning something different than what I said .. LOL Thank you...


I for one loves the more simple things in life so to speak.. :)

Well Dabbler


I never said I am against science
I'm simply proving the fact that science can't explain everything...

So I think people should be open minded that
things exist.... even when they can't be proven with science
Because Like I said...
Science changes everyday
It always has... and it always will

Science... like I said before
Is simply a way for people
to believe they understand something

Formed by people who didn't wanna just accept
that something is the way it is [which there is
nothing wrong with that, I ask questions myself]

But the bottom line is.... if it's Supernatural
How can we as people... the creators of science,
explain it in a natural way???

It wouldn't be supernatural anymore then.... would it?

~Koss~ I think you are missing ~Dabs~ point. Just because there becomes a scientific or natural explanation, does not mean said power is not uper-natural IE super.

But, give me a good natural explanation for any thought about uper power and proper documented proof that said power is in fact uper and I will retract my statement.

As well, super-natural is not by any means "beyond" natural, it is just "beyond" our comprehension at this time. It could be explained as known phenomenon in the future, just as auras are, but were.

*I submitted my last post by iPod accident, Dominars please delete it.


The default saying, "science can't explain everything" is an empty statement.
Science makes no claim to explain "everything", science examines, measures, and collects data of that which is evident. Just because what some insist to be "super natural occult endowments" cannot be "explained" does not conclude that it must be "super natural occult power"
Even those who are convinced of the existence of "s.n.o.p." lack consistent explanations for "abilities" they profess to possess, or claim to have witnessed.

Those that want others to accept their claims of "s.n.o.p"fail themselves by not gathering data.

okay...
I have no idea if supernatural powers exist...
I am not trying to convince anyone that it does or does not
cuz honestly...
I don't know... and I doubt anyone in this room knows either
you may chose to believe whatever you want...
I am simply stating the fact...that RIGHT NOW...AT THIS POINT IN TIME





Science... as we know it... can't prove it real or not~




I think YOU have been misunderstanding ME.
I am not saying science claimed to be able to prove anything.
When did I ever say they have????
That was all I have been saying since my first post to this thread
I don't know what u all are taling about with all this
"it's not super natural"
"science never claimed to know"
That's all fine and dandy, but I was never stating any of the two statment ur arguing....
so....yeah.

I am certain that a lot of the things we may believe to be supernatural abilities do have a firm grounding in science. A lot of seemingly impossible things can be accomplished through bodily training and meditation and to a witness may well seem like magic when in fact they are a result of extremely hard work and hard thinking.

oh my para-psychic experiences which shocked me and kept in shock for so mny year, I ran everywhere to science first, then light side world and then dark side world, but only one True Yogi did calm my quest and trauma of oh what happened with me, it will disturb even my familyin long term. I was not the sick did not need any psychiatrist. but what i saw was not mirage it was para-psychic play a demo of how the other human can be controlled or troubled by distant act of para-psychic nature.

science could not explain me led me to more worrying, dark sites and supposed dark peepal could not answer to my quest led me to even more surprise and lightside world given me strength of shield of god, it was not effective in my surprise regard coz happening was harmless and shock was of happening but not firghtening. One yogi calmed me that this universe full ofhappenings and vision and obstacles and we must treat them diverting from our target and we must have still stillness of bird while going ahead on to the target. this still stillness I concentrated on this. this was the sthir yoga - balane of mind yoga... that is Guruji SwamiJ

10241024s' post articulates well the matter. We have people claiming to have S.n.o.p.s' , therefor a potential for demonstaration. So to assume that something is "unexplainable" implies that it does not exist. Nothing to show
= nothing to "understand". To believe is Faith without evidence, to be convinced by demonstaration is not belief, a person can believe in an etheral after life, but to carry that to being somehow endowed with etheral powers/abilities is an invite to be requested to demonstarate professed endowments. Even if I was a believer, I would request a demonstaration of claimed powers/abilities. Whether the example/demo is "explainable" as 10241024 states is dependant on a demo, and an assessment of same.

Further info. Source Holysmoke.org.

No matter how often the confidence scammers are exposed, those who believe will happily continue to pay cold hard cash to be deceived. The believers are not victims of the miracle workers: they are willing, eager, happy participants in their own betrayal (usually in the form of cash money, real estate, jewels, and expensive works of art). That they can believe that which cannot be believed is a mark of how well so-called "psychics," palmists, spoon benders., etc., know the business of deception. The fact that not even one miracle worker has ever demonstrated, in properly controled conditions, even one "psychic" or "paranormal" ability or phenomena is lost upon true believers--- they just do not care. They would rather believe a lie.
"The true-believer syndrome merits study by science. What is it that compels a person, past all reason, to believe the unbelievable? How can an otherwise sane individual become so enamored of a fantasy, an imposture, that even after it's exposed in the bright light of day he still clings to it--- indeed, clings to it all the harder?
"The true-believer syndrome is the greatest thing phony mediums have going for them. No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie."

© M. Lamar Keene, the world's greatest spirit medium. Quoted from pg. 151, The Psychic Mafia, 1997, Prometheus Books 1-57392-161-0.



You would think that confidence scams would be against the law, right? Well, you would think correctly. However, in the USA such practices are protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, and even more strongly protected by over two hundred years of hands-off precedent. Law enforcement in the USA has nearly always shunned bringing religious-based criminals to court to answer for their crimes: the USA government does not wish to appear to be "persecuting churches." As Lamar Keene pointed out:


"To make my renunciation of mediumship complete, I knew there were other things I yet had to do. Seeking out a Masonic friend, I poured forth to him the whole story. At my request he went with me to the authorities. I turned myself in to the Internal Revenue Service for evasion of income tax. (I eventually paid all back taxes in full.) I also visited the FBI, the county sheriffs office, and the state attorney-general. To all these I made full confession of my years of fraud.
"No police investigation of any medium was launched as a result of my action nor, to my knowledge, did the Internal Revenue Service look into the matter of mediumistic bookkeeping. One reason for official reluctance to do anything may be an exaggerated concept of religious liberty. Apparently the last thing a public official in this country wants is for some sect like the spiritualists to scream bloody murder about religious persecution. At any rate, whatever the reason, the mediums continue unmolested.

"As a matter of fact, my former partner is doing better than ever[....]"

© M. Lamar Keene, the world's greatest spirit medium. Quoted from pg. 153, The Psychic Mafia, 1997, Prometheus Books 1-57392-161-0.


This dispite the fact that Keene confessed to fraud, theft, burglary, robbing the dead, picking pockets, and tax evasion ("all in a day's work," as the American saying goes, for spirit mediums).

Do you believe in "psychic phenomena?" Do you believe people can "talk to the dead?" Do you believe that some people can heal with just a touch or a shout of "Praise Jezuz!" or other incantation? Or do you think these things are silly, and yet still believe in astrology, I Ching, chiropractic, homeopathy, or spoon benders?

Alas, if you do, you are a fool. Human beings are increadably easy to deceive. Miracles performed before their very eyes by prestidigitation (i.e. "stage magic") they find entertaining; the same miracles performed by a self-professed "psychic," using the same or similar methods of the state magician, are seen by the True Believers as "evidence" of their beliefs. No amount of evidence to the contrary, including confession by the fraud who performed the tricks, is good enough to sway the True Believer. If you are among these poor souls, well, you have my sympathy, but you must admit you "had it comming to you." After all, you believe the impossible--- shouldn't you pay for such stupidity?

The "psychics," spirit mediums, spoon-benders, and all the other miracle workers believe you should. Imagine the utter contemp they hold for their gullible vistims. As "David" in the movie King of the Gypsies put it, talking about their victims:


"Dey believed 'cuz dey was ign'rant."
And that is the entire truth, in one insightful (albeit poor) sentence. I may as well be the one to tell you the brutal, cold, hard truth: genuine "psychic phenomena" do not exist. Lack of evidence for "psychic phenomena" is excellent evidence for lack of the existance of that phenomena. All a "psychic" need do to demonstrate my assertion false is to demonstrate a "psychic" ability. Not surprising, "psychics" refuse. EVERY TIME. Dowsers fail every time. Astrologers (and I've studied astrology and astrologers for 15 years) fail every time. "Psychics" fail every time. Spirit mediums produce "ectoplasm" (i.e. chiffon fabric) from their pockets and push tin trumpets around table-tops with sticks (in the dark), but they ALWAYS fail to produce any spirits.

"Super-natural phenomena?" It just doesn't happen! If you wish to believe otherwise, well, all I can say is that you're a fool. The real universe is amazing enough without believing it is a magical place where gurus leviated, ascended masters talk to people through mediums via spirit guides, the diseased and the dying get healed by prayer, and spoons get bent by merely willing them to bend. I wish the universe did work that way, but it does not.

Alot of people so spend alot of money on hocos pocos, if you will. They will continue to do so because soem people just cannot let go and truely believe they can contact their dead. I mean as that old saying is * you can lead the horse to water yet, you cannot make him drink*.. same with society and those who want to believe in talking to their dearly departed, or cleanse their homes etc. from the evil forces. Hey, whatever floats your boat folks. :)

Well Irony...

you are correct, that yes... people have seen things done
and yes people have recorded things done...
BUT....it isn't proven by science yet....why????
Well for something to be proven with science.... someone must
first be able to prove something works and fully understand it....
and then....record the data,
so that when someone else were to conduct the same
experiments... they can get the same predictable results.
Because then, you can say that it followed the scientific method....
which is the backbone of science.



"A scientific method seeks to explain the events of nature in a reproducible way, and to use these reproductions to make useful predictions. It is done through observation of natural phenomena, and/or through experimentation that tries to simulate natural events under controlled conditions. It provides an objective process to find solutions to problems in a number of scientific and technological fields"

[Backer, Patricia Ryaby (October 29, 2004). "What is the scientific method?". San Jose State University. Retrieved 2008-03-28.]




The supernatural [or anything of the unnatural] can never be proven or disproven because of the following factors:

1- no way to control a factor we do not yet understand
2- no means to conduct an experiment that will produce a predictable type of outcome.
3- no way to conduct mulitiple experiments in order to prove/ disprove a predictable outcome.
4- Supernatual factors don't exsist according to the scientific method [it being unnatural]
5- lack of ability to CORRECTLY record data of supernatual occurrence.



"Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") refers in its broadest sense to any systematic knowledge-base or prescriptive practice that is capable of resulting in a prediction or predictable type of outcome. "





Therefore... it is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to claim that science can prove or disprove supernatural occurrences.





This "proof" that people are talking about because someone has seen/ witnessed it... IS NOT SCIENCE...until it can be proven again and again with the SAME PREDICTABLE RESULTS...until then... it can't be classified as scientific proof.... just an idea or belief.


I think many people in this thread just don't know EXACTLY what science is...
A popular belief IS NOT a scientifically proven fact.

I think that if you are determined to explain something away you will always find the means.

"The true-believer syndrome is the greatest thing phony mediums have going for them. No amount of logic can shatter a faith consciously based on a lie."
........sadly Dab you are so correct. So many people suffer from that syndrome.

My case is not belief...

It was what I seen atteh age I did not believe even the God, how could that age i would believe para-psychic...

but now after what i have seen, I can say the para-psychic play is there which is demostrated to rare and science need again and again repeatation and work on it to make few phd and esteblish assumption. the face of science is the believer in science is changed from gallilio and newton to this era to make just mockery of science and no new laws are esteblished with that speed though invention made on those laws.... the base on which science find something to prove. even studies in universities notof that class now a days. that time was of complete change and each new laws was breaking old beliefs and assumption. but from then no such exclametary work in science. whatthis all we see is the laws and think line of 1960-70s and after that science did not emerge as its progress universal announced.

Example UFO, and supernatual research wings of science is kept in dark by each developed nations govts.

That is a quote from M. Lemar Keene. He coined the term 'True Believer syndrome'. The title of this article which I left out is "The Worlds Greatest Mentalist Was a Fraud" Too many now days , especially on line, make grand claims of possessing S.N.O.P's. Back in the day it was in the presentation.

.. since the late forties [to my knowledge] bothe the US and the USSR were committed to experiments in human enhancement and spent a lot doing so.

.. it would seen 'they' believe it possible.

As for me? I know I can do things that others can't.

Your right Angelus, our government believe, they just want us to think they do not lOl.. it is our society in general that do not want to believe that there is something more to us than our daily activities we do in this space and time which we call life.

I mean As was said before that if we were to use more than, 6% of our brain we could surprise ourselves at what we are capable of. Our Government *believes that* so they of course are always doing experiments and testing the human body, for a more extreme human being. yet, at the same time want to explain away anything that they can scientifically.

I am a government brat and believe me I do not believe everything they say LOl . Do not get me wrong there are alot of things that can be explained, yet, I feel we are still far from explaining everything, scientifically at this point and time. but that is just my opinion.

Plus somethings are better off not being explained.

Morbid T, I inquire how you arbitrarily conclude we only use 6 percent of our brain? How does this support the concept of s.n.o.ps? Is it not for those who profess s.n.o.p.'s to make their case. Again I state science does not explain, they document what is evident. Example what some insist is past life, is nothing more then nostalgia, and role play.

Suggested for reading, Google the ten percent myth at snopes.com.

Yes every govt the nation advanced in science do believe in supernatural activities and goingon experimenting it, but they can't reveal this in common coz the harmful effect is superstitious may pick on the point and will lead currupting the peepal in the name of religion and supernatural achievements again... and fear that their nations will go back to dark ages of pope rules and at the time of the curse on science...

What they seek and might have made defence forces of having supernatural activities...

this was very muchin news at late of coldwar especially in the end of 70s and in the start of 80s...

imagine person having good vision watching the base and mapping it where the arms and ammunition staored and missiles kept ready. and the scientist compare it by sattellite focus on the matter and then lock as the target...

I dont think it is supernatural Powers some ppl just have an ability to control their body temp.

As for Science of cause they can explain things because they delve in matters and try to advance things....playing god so to speak.

Criss Angel!!!!! That's all I have to say!!! The man has powers!!! Walking on water, levitate, telekinesis, whatever he can do it!!! Yall know what I'm talking about!!!

Now is it scientific or natural...? I couldn't even tell you!!!

Actually, all of his tricks have been debunked thus far and revealed by the "man behind the mask" on the: magic's biggest secrets revealed television show.

Criss Angel is a master "ILLUSIONIST", this does not mean that the stunts he pulls are real... It takes a very niave individual to think this.

I wish to know one matter... if science come to know and find explanation toany super natural activity of any human... then why can not it describe it as supernatural... it can and it can esteblish distinguished from normal nature matter... just like movement of energy through mind force is supernatural... ascension what mapped out by russians are very little in common and much more in the super natural peepal. example... blindmust have some other waves lie whale haves in the deep sea as sonar. whales deep sea communication is super natural activity, and blind's going forward too is super natural activity as common peepal can notgo that way while having eyes and eyes are tied with cloth...

Our government and Scientist are not gonna tell ya *Hey we made contact with martians* or *hey we have people with supernatural strength and abilities* That is not and will not ever happen. They are afraid of wide spread panic. I agree with them on that LOl. Society could not handle the real truth of things that are of the Supernatural. I mean they still give many grief on having visions and being able to communicate with the dead, could you even imagine how the puplic would act if they announced that we had people with extra abilities than the average human, yeah, people do not believe it is even possible much less want to really know.

Most people are so wrapped up in their own lives that they do not even bother with the news or anything that may pertain to the news. I mean you could probably drive home blindfolded because it is a repeative act on your part. The brain is already programmed as to how to get home pretty much how a drunk makes it home, it is instintive for them.

Science can explain things as to the scientific reasoning of how things are or may be, but as to Why? that is not always clear to them.

believe me I do not knock our scientist at all I love science, but, I also keep my mind open to new things and wonder why or if.... Some do not want the truth of things out because they fear we could not handle it.

I tend to agree with that as well. many would be skeptical or just think they were nuts..

The heart of the matter is obvious, what the metaphysical believers claim to be supernatural has not been demonstrated sufficently.. except in venues where they have absolute control over how they are viewed. No repeat NO body that claims to have supernatural powers has come forward.. even when offered sympathetic measures. There have been a few venues that James Randy has invited various people to demonstrate their alledged powers, but each time there is a result no better then chance.

All that was once considered to be evidence of supernatural power has been explained by physics, psycology, and illusionist.. Illusionist gave even duplicated what others claim to be supernatural.

Had believers one substancial example, they would press the national headlines, yet they constantly moo science to " disprove" what they believe.

Pathetic!

when i was growing up, we had a neighbor who was an old Haitian woman. my father would have me go over there frequently and preform various odd jobs for her. she would cook for me, my brother and my dad as thanks. she made this one dish that i loved, which was a snake stew. so one day i asked how she caught the snakes. she told me to follow, grabbed a burlap sack with a huge opening and her cane. we walked into the woods for about a 5 minutes and she told me to stop. in front of us was a snake, i forget which kind. she stared at the snake for about a minute, placed the lip of the sack on the ground, and clicked her tongue. and the snake rose, and went in the sack. to this day it is the most supernatural thing Ive ever seen.

Science is forever changing as they find out a new theory and lucky for us they do except the new and the re write it all with the new brick which makes the science stance a rather strong one. Mind you everyone forgets they had it wrong all this time and disproved all they could .. well in the name of science lol
I would like to bring science in to the occult .. however it does lack any ability to measure test or repeat most occult events .. not that they are fantasies, just science is not as smart as it may believe or those who hide behind the great scientific coats. lol

I have been able to accelerate my heart or slow it down to a crawl since I was ten. I can also bench 145 kg and thats just the normal stuff.
Truth is people just get scared...BOOOO!

Problem is with what people call supernatural is as soon as you can explain it with this science it’s just natural. .. I think everything is natural and only called super coz they lack skills to explain us away. lol

Natural physics, employed with psychological influence. The whole concept is presentedto people who want to see something, something they can interpret as SNP once they are " convinced" they are convinced.

Even when an illusionist demonstrates the same effect.. it is called selective guilibility. or True Believers Syndrome, those who make money off it will always present the same Fallacious Arguments to maintain the illusion..

I don’t think so that is way to generalized .. most people into SNP have had one rather than seek one … an illusionist is entertainment with a flavor one might develop a like for due to personal history of or desire to experience. I don’t think it is the same thing at all.
Life just isn’t that simple

SS, dabbler and 10241024... I feel your "pain." It can be quite frustrating to attempt logical discourse here with so many whose views and worldviews are just not that well founded in either logic or knowledge... or common sense (increasingly a most uncommon commodity).

The point, I believe, in mentioning illusionists such as David Blaine is that so often this is exactly what those calling themselves "psychics" and "supernatural" actually are: illusionists in charlatan garb While professional illusionists are honest in telling people up front that it is all an illusion, yet self-stylized "psychics" do not. They, instead, feed on the gullible in convincing them that their illusions are evidences of actual "supernatural" powers.

Uri Geller is one of the more prolific and well-known of this sorry ilk. While he began his career as an illusionist, he soon found himself drawn to the "Dark Side" of illusionist magic by trading in his self-respect for prideful claims to powers he does not, of course, possess. Thankfully, people like "The Amazing Randi" have come forward and debunked in grand fashion his and others' claims to the "supernatural."

And... by the by... speaking of "scientific explanations" for such ridiculous claims to "supernatural powers," I have yet to see any of these "supernaturally gifted" quacks come forward to accept and win Randi's Million-Dollar challenge, have you?

Seems to me before one should attempt "scientific explanations" for such dubious claims to the "supernatural" that any such claims first have the obligation to be scientifically proved! Don'tcha think?


- Upir'

still throwing the million dollor request lol I have to agree there are many people out there that think they have had a supernatural experience and that goes to all community from all religions as well…. Problem is as soon as a event gets scientific explanations it stops being supernatural (which is a messy ball of truths and misconceptions I must agree) and becomes natural science lol you will never win this ghastly trophy that has robed many people of exploration into a phenomena that needs open minded observations rather than bullying and due to it’s perception of the mind which also is far from understood by a science … I might add a science whos foundations are as rocky as the perception of the occult. Lol science that has trouble knowing when a wave is a wave or a particle is a particle, and shocker that inside an atom there is nothing.. that’s right kids so nothing joins together making partials that when observed change to who is observing them tells me that science may have done good getting us away from religion and meds and on the moon and so forth, it also is forever changing due to what one thought was right was proved wrong and it corrects itself which is good but it also shows the weakness of the people who hide behind the great silencers of the “I know more than you people” or you try and show science wrong that I hide behind and a million dollar sick award.lol How can you recreate a ritual/ magick experience twice when you as the person performing said rituals that worked for you once, however the second time as so much has changed in the individual on a daily basis the science at best would not stand under scrutiny for reasons like.. science needs a sterile environment and identical components to be reproduced… so thanks for offering a bar science cant even reach on it’s own foundations, personally quantum mechanics seems to be pointing back towards occultist as having a good working theories on this world and science not….. lol

LaVisbre -

Just because there are areas that science cannot yet explain does not invalidate science or the means by which such is quite successfully used to reveal quacks and other assorted charlatans and pseudo-scientists.

As for James Randi's Million Dollar Challenge, I do find it curious that you are so viciously against same. After all, all that Mr. Randi requires to obtain the prize is to demonstrate three times, and with controls and observers in place to prevent deception, any para-normal ability. If you read those who have attempted to acquire the prize, you will see that Randi has permitted great leniency in allowing the applicants, upon failing, to revise their "power" and the parameters of same... sometimes to unbelievably great degrees. Yet in all such cases, no one has been able to simply DO what they claimed they could do!

Why does this have you so ... upset at Mr. Randi?

Not too many years ago, the quack faith-healer Peter Popoff was revealed... through scientific means... for the fraud he is, even while thousands upon thousands of gullible people were bilked of millions of dollars based on his own claims to "supernatural" powers. Do you likewise have a problem with this, as well?

I don't understand, unless you condone and approve of such quackery, why you should so disparage anyone requiring that such "powers" be tested and proved to be real. Help me ... help all of us ... understand your attitude and point of view on this.


- Upir'

Worth noting is that the majority of those that claim SNP are unaware of the difference between cynacism, and skeptism.

A skeptic is open to demonstratable SNP, while a cynic outright could care less for such nonsense.

There are more examples of fraud commited under the pretense of SNP then visa' Versa'.

In any other field ie; Financial Investments, or real estate; any extraordinary claim would be scrutinized, if a person said.." In one month, I can take your 1200.00 investment, and turn it into 24.000.000." How many would without hesitation withdraw the cash, and hand it over?

What if that person had 5 people that swore they had their investment turn over?

Still ready to be openminded?

Your not suspicious are you?

Hi Upirlikhyj
Quite right just coz science lacks fundamentals it still gets a lot right, and vice versa for the occult.

As for the million dollar man I don’t feel upset, my response is a logical one I thought to any challenge who motive would be great if it wasn’t used wrong in my view in post. Just as the atomic energy seemed like a good idea .. man sure can use it wrong lol

Faith healers I agree can like any medium can be abused .. I just find it odd that ones on TV are not stopped yet one new ager says I can heal and he’s in trouble with you lot lol

Do I condone efforts to make people better even if they don’t involve conventional expensive medical bills and so forth and government approved taxed treatments … my opinion is based on personal ailments and expensive treatments and operations that were on going and only solution as one of my Dr said when you die from this we will name it after you, however my occult path of treatment has me here 4 years after recommend death date telling you your missing the point. No people who rip people off are not good, yes guide lines would be good to help protect us from the wolves. However that said it is not a science of sorts yet, just as psychiatry was not a science so long ago and even to date argumentable in it’s assumptions and training to conform this practice of listening to someone and offering advise. So does a tarot card reader for a heck of a lot less lol

Hey Dabbler
The premise of your argument leaves only one conclusion that you offer as being a logical one.

Mind you any occultist offering a money turn over I agree would be suspect in the least. as for my understanding of my practice in the occult, it is one of spiritual development and all that comes with it. So if you told me if I invested 10 mins a day on meditation and prayer I would gain in spiritual development I would tend to believe more than be skeptic.

Don’t get me wrong Dabbler I know as do we all that due to this explosion of new age and occult there are huge issues with delusions and possible harm and more, there is also huge exploration and new science and growth from it as well, personally iv come from a violent past to a spiritual present and a happy future, with out this path I wouldn’t of changed… I feel the solutions you offer are just as drastic and harsh as brain surgery with a mechanical digger and a temp staff person operating it on his first day lol