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I've noticed the majority of society is very heavily brainwashed. There are many methods used to control the minds of the public, but all share the same attributes.

I would like to help open the minds of others, but first we must know what to look for, the signs that show people are brainwashed.

I would like everyone to post a list of symptoms/signs that would indicate a person to be brainwashed. Please, no arguing with the responses of others, just list your own. Then if you would like to add anything such as how we can open their minds, then please feel free to make a suggestion.



This is my list.

1. Ignores people when being spoken to.

2. Will not make eye contact when spoken to.

3. Answers all questions with a topic changer such as "That's not nice, that's offensive, that's rude, don't use those words, that's not being open minded".

4. Believes only things first told to them, without questioning them.

5. Unable to see from other perspectives. They are always right, you are always wrong.

6. Appears emotionless with lack of feeling towards others.

7. They have all had their flu shots.

Are you talking about brainwashed people or my 4-yr old?

Besides, people being brainwashed isn't a new development... religions have existed for thousands of years...

You know what they say- insanity in individuals is rare, but in groups, it's the norm.

I find that they also tend to absolutely ignore it and not think of it if their beliefs have suddenly been proven wrong or seriously put into question, rather than logically doubt themselves. They don't want to change their way of thinking and sacrifice it for the truth, so they delude themselves.
It's sad.

It is sad. It's also a symptom of humanity.

Politics is more the study of manipulating the masses than anything else. The media plays into that goal.

It's been that way since Grog convinced his clan that fire was bad and would kill everyone if anyone else played with it, thereby making him the fire master.

I miscalculated in the Delorean once... don't ask.

I was thinking if we made an obvious list of signs to look for, then we might be able to confront the brainwashed with the list so they can see and know for their selves. However, it's like telling a drug addict that they have a drug problem, at first they will deny it, but then it should only be a matter of time till they begin to seek help.

I strongly suggest everyone download the "MK Ultra" files. Search for them and you will find them. It's the most info on brainwashing I could find anywhere on the net. It may help us find an answer to open all minds and put an end to the mass brainwashing of humanity.

Mind Control.. Brain washed, sci-fi.. cohesive repression, behaviour modification.. these are closer to what exist, and is demonstrated. when a person can take an irrational fallacy of reasoning, and present it to others who follow without critical analysis. The process is rather simple, just flatter them. and eventually slip far fetched concepts, and when they expand on those concepts to fit their "reasoning" then award them.

So it is not so much "brain washing" as it is "brain cramming" a cluttered open mind, people that seek "enlightment" getting caught up like deers in headlights, rather then observing what is illuminated.. anyone that uses an existing faith as a pretense to exalt themselves has a shorter task then a person that hatches a concept.

One need only look at the 10% myth, to see how people can be drawn in by "junk concepts". An open mind is not "bad " persay, but an open mind crammed with noval, and superficial interpretations, or sensational idealism are often led into jungles to Flavor aid parties.

Selective, how do you know if you are not "brainwashed" to consider society "brainwashed"?

I sould ammend my post, "brainwashing, and mind control are often foddor for sci-fi, and in tabloid journalism, as unrealistic method of turning people into mental puppets.. if one resigns to such a "complex" expectation, then one is a prime canidate for cohesive manipulation ( altering the way a person accepts to suggestion)
I suggest any of the Dr mentioned in this wiki enterance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Singer

Well no I don't think I am brainwahed as I question everyone and everything and yes Birra hey that sounds a lot like my 12 yr old as well.

BRAINWASHING / mind control happens every few years of when there is a election.

Quote: "It does not matter who you vote for, the Goverment always gets re:elected."

Dabbler, You asked a good question, (how do you know if you are not "brainwashed" to consider society "brainwashed"?)

I have thought about this before, very seriously, and have come to the conclusion we are all locked into a specific frame of mind no matter which way we turn. So I would say there are degrees of lesser and more "Brain Washed".

I consider myself not brain washed because I question everything, and at the same time I shut myself off to nothing, always giving all views a chance. I also connect all info to see a much larger picture. For every action, there's a reaction. It's like playing detective with science. Most people will proclaim they don't like to read or listen, and will usually agree with whatever sounds good to them. So I think this is the biggest problem we have to face.

I guess being open minded is a progression of accepting truth while knowing what isn't truth.

It can also be true that if someone is too accepting of views, they could be Brain Washed also. Only the difference would be in how they handle the information and do they live by it, cause I think the inability to change is another sign of being Brain Washed as well.

Birra, hehe yeah... the brainwashed appear to have minds of children, so our answers may very well be somewhere at the beginning of their conditioning/programing.

Excellent observation on your part!

As a child I would instantly know right from wrong, so I started disagreeing with most of what was being told to me at an early age. So it's hard for me to see how others could just go along with whatever is being told to them. I also recall I never stopped questioning things, so this may be another reason I am the way I am now.

Maybe I spend more time alone than most people in society so it gives me time to think for myself, cause I noticed most seem to want to always be around others and try to follow a crowd of some sort, even if they hate them.

Another sign of Brain Washing is keeping people tired, such as making them work all the time. This tears away at their ability to think or take part in anything so they end up in a zombiefied state of mind like in a trance state.

I think it has alot to do with evolution , generation after generation is groomed to function in world thats been created by the people before . Children are conditioned by parents and society to fit in and function as part of a whole . Someone who doesn,t follow the general rules of society is very quickly labled as something not functioning properly . We,re trained to be brain washed zombies , sleeping , working , consuming , reproducing , repeating the cycle , inprinting on our own children . Thats how things function smoothly , evolution happening at a rate the masses can diegest . I agree that society is brain washed but it,s necessary , not every one is ready to wake up , a simple repetative cycle is comforting for them . Thats why they choose to keep it and stay closed off displaying some of the symptoms in your list . Those that choose to rebel and question everything quickly see how closed minded society is , but trying to wake them up ? , i dont think they,ll end up thanking you .

It,s difficult , how do you get one single person , and show them that their entire life , they,ve conformed to thought patterns that are a load of crap . I,am not sure people can change that drasticly , i think for the masses , their not ready to listen . Thats not to say theres not a load of people out there who are already thinking outside the box but are still trapped in the mundane repetative cycle of everyday existance , but are they ready to let go ? I,am not sure .

Yeah.... I was just thinking about what is the meaning of a true open mind. It must be the willingness to accept change.

Then this would mean the truly close minded would cling to repetition and isolation.

O.o I just had another thought!

What is our Society based upon?

FEAR

Fear of losing their homes...
Fear of no electricity to cook, shower, and stay warm with...
Fear of not having food to eat...
Fear of Losing a job...
Fear of having no phone to use...
Fear of having no car...
Fear of not being able to seek medical treatment...
Fear of not having money...

If we take away all these fears from people, then they will begin to accept a new reality without fear! Thus their minds will open and religion will die once and for all. :)

Then no more brainwashing !!!

Though I do not doubt there are many who are "Branwashed" or under "Mind Control", due to the hidden agenda and propaganda the Government and Media put out there, I don't see these signs/symptoms specific to these conditions.

1. Ignores people when being spoken to.

That can apply to people who are rude, self-centered, pre-occupied, the "generation gap", children and teens' response to parents, or those who just no interest in what others have to say.

2. Will not make eye contact when spoken to.

Can be a sign of guilt or deception.

3. Answers all questions with a topic changer such as "That's not nice, that's offensive, that's rude, don't use those words, that's not being open minded".

Here, in VR, those statements can apply to those who have no response and just want to add to their post count to up their Forum Bonus. :)

It can also mean that the person does not feel comfortable posting their actual opinions.

4. Believes only things first told to them, without questioning them.

I call that being naive.

5. Unable to see from other perspectives. They are always right, you are always wrong.

I see that as being egotistical and closed-minded.

6. Appears emotionless with lack of feeling towards others.

That is called Apathy.

7. They have all had their flu shots.

Depends on the individual. But, the way today's Government and Media make it such an issue, one begins to wonder.

I think that if a person starts to display any/all of these signs and it is not their normal behavior/character, then you might have an argument.

Yeah, i think it,s got a lot to do with fear . If you take away all someones material possesions , how do they define themselfs ? These people have nothing apart from what they own , and their routine , and how it makes them look in the eyes of others .

If they were to spend alot of time on their own with no outside input , They would be forced to look at them selfs and the way they live . They don,t need to be putting so much effort into material life and wearing themselfs to the bone , but then again thats how humanity thrives . If we were all to give up every thing we own , sit by our selfs and ponder the meaning of life and the reason for self delusion , humanity would be in trouble . Those who are willing to sacrifice it all are very few , maybe it,s a sort of right of passage , to give up living a material , brain washed life so you have the time to look inward and see the truth . It,s all yin and yang , I,am sure to them their style of living is best and we are delusional .

I have a question would you give up your life style ?, all the depth and truth you,ve discoverd for a morgage and a flash car . What we hold dear is worthless to others , as is their stuff to us .

ok.... here's the plan..

when we confront a Brain Washed person, we must not be confrontational at all. We must instead lower ourselves to their level of thinking and see from their view to try and raise their thinking level slowly by agreeing with them but at the same time getting them to question their own thoughts, actions, and beliefs.

This hasn't been proven to work yet, but it has been proven to show some signs of progress, and they will lower their defenses a little.

Yeah , that would work i think , if you steered the coversation allowing them to have realisations at their own pace , challenging them or even disagreeing with them , so they have to reason and evolve their ideas . I love to have conversations like this , I,ve found people that i thought were really shallow actually have some depth , and sometimes it,s refreshing to hear a really shallow , simple view of life . Ask them what do they think happens after death ?, see which religion they,ve been programmed with .

The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

‪ Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

‪ Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

‪ The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

‪ The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

‪ The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

‪ The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

‪ The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

‪ The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

‪ Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

‪ The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

‪ The group is preoccupied with making money.

‪ Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

‪ Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

‪ The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.



This checklist will be published in the new book, Take Back Your Life: Recovering from Cults and Abusive Relationships by Janja Lalich and Madeleine Tobias (Berkeley: Bay Tree Publishing, 2006). It was adapted from a checklist originally developed by Michael Langone.




_

Selective i am on your blocked list.


what is often left on discovered in "brain washing" cases is motive. why dominate the cohesive abilities of others to expoit them. it often comes down to graft. an easy Buck, however the larger the 'pool" the farther the talent/skill of the manipulator(s) is stretched.

those who buy the sensational projection of hollywood, often fall for simplistic arrest of their critical thinking, and inclusive reasoning. Logic works, but when
a person is being flattered for shallow "knowledge" they will go along, with the vaguest fabrication. If they see others they regard as "knowledgable", appear to (or actually)go allong with a suspect pitch, then all the more assured is their conviction to the irrational idealism. To bring down the gravy train for such graft artist needs to start with exposing their practices. They adapt political, religious, caste, philosopy and anything that has a predisposed audiance.

I would add, that those who often accuse society of brainwashing, are often cohesive manipulators themselves. Of course they are quick to imply that they have the "protective method" to "unwash the mind".

True... those that have declared they were able to "Unwash The Mind" have actually been tried for kidnapping and assault, among many other things.

In Psychology, you learn to listen to what others say and reflect what they say about others is what they are actually saying about their selves.

The best way to know someone is not trying to manipulate others is when they show no control over others who are free thinkers and act in the best interest to empower them.

Part of that process is suspending a persons critical analysis, and reasoning. Presenting irrational concepts, in rapid redundancy (chanting). Even ammending, and restricting a persons vocabulary, to personal group jargon. Making people feel they are vastly gifted to be "in the know"..

people who are brain washed never question anything, they do what they are told, i wonder if they will also argue with a post if they believe it will fight back

Alright, beyond a shadow of a doubt against further speculation, what is the scientific proof that society is in fact brain washed or under some sort of conspiring mind control?

As most of these posts have been pure speculation.

Alright SS, I'll explain "The Brain Washing" of society...

Religion, be it started with good or ill intent, is greatly used against the masses to control people.

The main example of this is how people have abandoned free thought and their own beliefs to associate with "A Religious Category" already in place with a detailed list of what they think and how they act. Instead of people acknowledging this and rejecting it, they line up to be labeled with a stereotype like mindless sheep. This is why we have so many religions, cause individuals feel like they have to belong to one belief system or another instead of simply knowing what their own thoughts and beliefs are.

There shouldn't be marriage certificates at all, and especially not certified by the government. People are so blind, they don't even see that their own religious wedding ceremonies are nothing more than bait, like a worm on a hook reeling them in just to keep religion in place with the government playing God.

Aside from religion, the monetary system was also placed as a tool to deceive and control the masses. By first letting people feed on their own greed, it then feeds off of their fear, and uses them in the process so everyone works against each other to further tear down and destroy our society.

Then theres Psychology and Psychiatry that uses theories and philosophy to sell mind altering and mind impairing drugs packaged as medicine to people that are so gullible
as to never ask a single question.

Television plays 50% commercials for every show played, and movies get censored when they play, but no one ever rises up in anger to declare they paid for their television and cable and refuse to sit down and accept the commercials. No one ever does, cause they swallow what they are told to. They have no control, never have and never will.

When it comes to music, billions of artists exist and can easily be looked up on the internet, but the few artists that get played repeatedly generation after generation on FM Radio are the most popular and most played by individuals because people are incapable of searching and discovering anything on their own.

People often repeat things they heard or read as fact without investigating. Using words without knowing their definitions or ignorantly taking the words of others at face value without any in depth knowledge to see past their own views of things.

As children, the entire human race was told they were natural born killers and that it was in their nature to kill, so they accepted it without questioning it, letting the mass murders of fish, cows, chicken, and other creatures continue. Then ignorantly blaming movie and video game violence on the reason why people in society hurt and kill each other.

Many things in the world are still yet to be discovered. The law of gravity was just an observation of something falling
and then stating what goes up must come down. Everyone in this world is so sure of their selves, claiming they know what is and what isn't.

Being "Brain Washed" is being stuck in a very narrow and limited mind set. It's not being able to see the larger picture. It's a corrupted thought process incapable of processing information correctly. It's people that never ask questions, or with egos so huge they never question their selfs in the process.

An observation by me, your entire post was complete speculation on a conspiracy theory, without supplying the least bit of proof save for testimony based on opinion itself.

No offense, but it seems to be lacking something very distinct to bring the discussion forward. How about scientific data that confirms your theory?

SS, I think you missed the post I made earlier in this thread where I mention to download the "MK Ultra" files.

The Induction Series-MK-Ultra

Thank you, and my apologies for the lack of concentration.

I only brought up the second to last post that I made for the sake of the audience as I know a few of them out there were waiting on your post of the same.

Most people of my country are brainwashed but I don't wholly I agree with you, selective.

Religions- I am not religious myself, but if someone wants to believe in a religion, because they choose to, because they believe it's their right path, what's wrong with that?

The first list- OK but not always necessary brainwashed and there can be other signs than that.

As for fear, how can you not have fear? If you lived without a bit if fear then you wouldn't be cautious. So should someone spend all their money in one night and not care about anything because they don't fear anything? Should osmeone gumble all their money and not fear they'll lose everything?

I might have misunderstood your statement but I am posting, with the examples you have given.

People do have fear because of brainwashing, like fear to have no friends if they don't follow trends, fear of not being respected if they don't have a high paid job, etc...but for the examples you gave I disagree.

I too questioned things when I was a child. Some told me that children ask many questions and that if I lived in a different era or culture I'd be different.

I disagree because I disagreed with adults, didn't fully believe them, and used to discuss with them and was called ''little woman'' because I was told I spoke differently from the other children.

Then another question to ponder, can we brainwash ourselves?

If one had an opinion and then change it because they observed something else, had an expirience so they decide to think and act differently, are they brainwashing themselves?

From what I've learned so far about "Brain Washing", it appears to be caused mostly by a control over others.

You are confusing religion with organized religion. Then the fact so many people do this makes all religions bad. Cause religion is how governments manipulate and deceive the masses when it comes to politics, laws, and money.

Fear is how we all live today. As you ask, "How can we live without fear?" Same goes for someone living in a box their whole life. They will never know what life is like outside the box because they are never let out of the box. It is possible for all of Society to live without any fear at all, and it's a reality I've seen in the not to far future.


Ok, I think I'm understanding this more and more with each person that asks me something. It's helping me to think better.



Signs That Someone Is Brainwashed

1. Never Asking Questions

2. Conforming To A Group

3. Accepting Routine

4. Being Controlled






You mentioned you think everyone in your country is brainwashed, but you never gave any examples as to how. If you could, give this some thought for me and let me know what your thoughts are on this.

Wow great thread.I do not see where some of your post rove a person that is brainwashed, just how some people are especially children. Yet, Society as a whole has their what I call a "comfort zone" Afraid to explore or even want to know what is going on in the world in general.

Well alot of that is like A kid being described. yet, I do agree that our Society as a whole has been comformed to believe just certain things are the Norm or accepted in Society.

Brainwashing has been going on for many many years in Religions and also in the military. When I think of someone who is brainwashed I sure do not think of them as avoiding my eyes or questions, just the opposite, they are looking right at you and declaring what they feelis correct and how your not correct.

I mean Our Soldiers that are in Elite Forces get drove into the ground to re-act and to act in a certain way just to perform their duties. Believe me I come from a long line of government and military people. I have a brother in Search and Rescue Ops. during Viet-nam, and if they had not had the training and *brainwashing* as they had, The job would of been alot harder. he and his men had rescued over 300 POWs during the war and the things they had to do and endure could not of been done by the average Joe.

Yet, I do believe that our society is brainwashed to a degree as to our Government, religion and how they look at things in general.

I myself was taught to not follow the sheep to slaughter or jump off the bridge with the others. I was taught to use my mind and believe in myself before some government or any power hungry Idiot. LOL Make my own choices.

itellectually lazy people, prefer phamplets to text with substance, they want the "spoon full of suger." hose that seek to exploit others are not often dedicated to elaborate complex arrangments. The same would be followers are often flattered into the idea that they are brillent for conceiving the "depth of the teachings".

I offer as an example, the whole.. I am A Vampire Movement.

To "wash" something one must saturate that which is to be washed, preferable with something corrosive (lye). The objective is to remove undesired matter from the material being washed.

hehehe to Wash, yes

but remember, those that were doing the Unwashing were also Brain Washed in another way.

I think the answer is simple. Realization!!! That's All.

So we'll make a list of steps to take to awaken people then.

1. Realization

2. ???

So what do we do after they reject the realization and stick with their old pattern?




--------------
also... weak minds might play into this.
Weak minds are those more susceptible to influence such as people that smoke, drink, or do drugs.

Not weak minds, Cults recruit intelligent people, those that think being led by others is complex, often fall for the simple.

That is true Cults do recruit intellects not people of the weaker thought yet ones that can actually concieve the idea of what they are doing and to help them.

Grant it there are many that are what I call leading sheep to slaughter such as was in Hitlers plan. I do not say the Nazis because there were alot of soldiers under Hitler who was not quite sure they wanted to be yet, to survive they did. there is always gonna be those who want to control everything cause they are just alittle touched in the head you could say and feel that their way is the *only* way parasy....

I know a little about a lot..
..and the list described at the top seems more than a tad like the 'barriers to learning' that I have learnt of in class.

i very much agree that pretty much everybody in today's society is brainwashed to some degree. even myself, but atlease i admit it. :)

okay, heres my list. ^_^

1. Does not question things that are told to them (especially in terms of religion.)

2. Believes everything the media portrays is absolutely real and true.

3. Refuses to accept other peoples' opinions or consider other points of view (narrow minded.)

4. Only cares about material things and has no regard for other peoples' interests or spiritual things.

5. Dresses and acts like a certain group of people while claiming to be an individual.


* I guess the main form of brainwashing I notice almost every day is in terms of religion (see #1) It is asucha tragedy that people cannot think for themsevles and discover the truth on their own.

well I like your list alot better .. LOL It is true people as a whole in society are mostly brainwashed into believing and doing what they think is the norm because our governments and churches drill it into our brains. I am glad I had free thinking parents that raised me to follow my own way of thinking.

I myself think alot of it is that people have lived and done things a crtain way for so long that they are afraid of change and are lazy .They do not bother to educate themselves or their kids etc. I am notbeing mean or putting anyone down mind you just stating what I have seen in my lifetime thus far. people are afraid of change and things they do not know or care to learn to know.

Yes the world is brainwashed by the system, religion, politics, and the same illusions every individual craves to obtain in the long run in order to forge that very notion. Scholastics is flawed we all know is made to separate, to create the stratification of groups, as we let our belief system, conformity desires, competition and arrogance corrupt our way to interact with each other, we will keep going downhills with things we alone create, as we enslave ourselves with unnecessary utensils that technology have brought in game. Fear being the common denominator in the whole equation. So while the masses living the american illusion fed with materialistic and conformist desires are enslaved to the economic overview the other half of the mass die out of the actual freewill and pure ignorance of interest. Maybe it takes to be very very poor to understand that only food and good water is what really a human need out of it all.

I suspect the worst elephant on the list to be the religious. Keeps the masses focused in that fear, and the opening of new system becomes irrelevant when a mass is focused in a same detrimental aspiration.

How odd it is that a conclusion has been drawn in that the world "is" in fact being brain washed and not "the world could be, or may be brain washed," as in speculation instead of an all out conclusion.

There is always evidence and testimony for both sides of the scenerio. Whether the world "is" in fact being brain washed is a perspection by the individual themselves.

The individual could look around and use a stereotype for basically anyone in society and call them out on their systems, and or standards IE their way(s) of life and come to a conclusion based on your own perception that this individual could be "in fact" brain washed when it would not be the case at all.

The media may be controlled by some more powerful entity. Such conspiracies run rampant all over the globe. Various organizations such as the "New World Order (which has not been proven to exist), seem to be the flagship for such paranoia, others that would surround this flagship entity would be the Trilateral Commission, The Bilderberg Group, The Vatican, The Council on Foreign Relations, The World Bank and of course the U.N.. The list goes on and on. But, what I have not seen is proof either way, save for testimonies of conspiracy theory and a couple of lists that have at least rational explanational thought for them.

Now, if one were to have an open mind and not stereotype everytime they walk by someone, or watch a news broadcast and distinctly point something out that seems a bit off cilter then research it and find something that proves their point about something being purposely left out of the broadcast, then contact the news studio to find out whats up... Then mayhaps something could come out of the cross referencing and that individual could learn that something may be amiss within the whole "are the world governments controlling the society that they govern over?"

But for what purpose? What agenda? This question still has yet to be answered.

What purpose? What Agenda?

It changes with each group that is involved.

The CIA was created for the simple purpose of spying on all branches of American Government without having any disciplinary measures for any of their actions. When they did a lot of stuff such as creating I.Q. Tests for students, it was to one day turn America into a communist country where jobs would be picked for people. Most of their true intentions are just now being made public by retired members of the CIA. Videos of such members making such statements can be found on "Google Video".

When it comes to all of the twisted facts and lies on the FOX television network, it's because the owner of that network is a strict Republican and forces his views and opinions on all the staff members and anyone that tries to tell the truth or speak out about how it is ran will be fired. See the documentary "Out Foxed" for a detailed report of this made by all the people that use to work for the FOX television network.

Cults such as Scientology do it for the money and to gain more members thus gaining more money. See www.xenu.net for all the info and how it lasted for over 50 years...

Religions seek world domination just as countries seek world domination. Yet they are concerned with overpopulation at the same time so their message slipped into the mainstream and the media is "Control Birth, Increase Death". Thus rumors of conspiracies develop, half of which are true.

It appears everyone has their own motives. All motives being achieved through some kind of control. The larger the control, the less people question it.

I have often thought that maybe the Human race is a slave race, and maybe some of us are evolving beyond this as a result of too much of it.

Then of course we would go into discussions regarding the Amero, Swine Flu Hoax, the Patriot Act, Roswell Hoax, Area 51 hijinx, the Bohemian Grove phenomenon, Lizard people, Planet X, Nibiru, Atlantean Emerald Tablets beneath the Sphinx, manuscripts regarding the Holy Grail beneath the Rosslyn Chapel, Stone Henge - the Giza plateau and other sites deemed as landing strips for the 2011 first contact encounter with extra-terrestials involving Barack Obam, etc.

Conspiracy theory until it all happens. Glad to see someone keeping up with the TRUTH.

Those who profess to be Ex CIA agents, relie on one thing, the fact that the CIA ofen prefers not to confirm, or deny anyones former status.

So to claim to be a former CIA agent is often to "beg authority" which is a fallecy of logic. Just because someone that publishes a "tell all", and claims to have been an "insider", does'nt mean they are, it just means they know enough to appear as such.

How long can the outsider appear as such and what are they trying to appear outside of? Both the outsiders and those they strive to distance themselves from are an opposite of the other . Are they trying to discredit the other or to gain some sort of self superiority?

What they need to try and understand is that everything exists in balance. Its plainly evident in everything around us. It leaves its mark on every part of this planets. The simple principle that you cannot have one without the other.

You cannot have love without hate.
Nor black without white.
Nor friend without an enemy.
Man with out without.

Cause without effect.

Unfortunately it has been drilled into the human subconscience by modern life to battle whatever we do not understand as so when we cannot get to grips with the idea of equality and balance we try to sway the balance in our favour, whatever side we happen to fall into. A constant power struggle over the interdependent nature of reality.

The news media and government brainwash people everyday..

Everyone needs to realize... that we are all a little bit brainwashed... if you live in society or an area where religion rules.
Every day in the media we are told what to buy
"it has been rated number one" "number one scientifically proven"
Follow these clothing trends Watch these movies, vote for these people

People who are brainwashed:

Believe their government is doing whats in the interest of the people
Believing your government gives you a choice
Thinking you can change your government (via other means than killing lol)
HAS to WATCH certain tv shows
Those who think money is the key to everything
People who have to talk about people they don't know , like actors
People who listen to the radio
Following trends to the T is also brainwashing.

The list goes on!

Selective, the examples are practically the same as you gave.

Other:

There was a particular year where the TV decided to make programs about Satanism and the Occult.

Guess who they called satanists?

People who listen to metal music and wears dark clothing.

So till this year many people who know someone who listens to metal and similar muic and dresses dark, they're called satanists, evil, crazy, etc...I remember at school I got bullied cause of this.

Another common example, are sub cultures, your religious beliefs, your location, and even your marital status.

People judge you basically from these things because they are taught this way and have no intention to change because they don't realise anything.

Even young people do so.

For what purpose? What agenda?


The purpose for what we call brainwashing *society as a whole* is just the control of multitutes of people in general, I mean who really ever questions our government or even the advertisments that are put out there. No enough to even mention. I agree that the media plays a big role in getting things out there and society listening to what is being said or done.

Our brains absorb things even if we are not paying alot of attention to what is actually said, just how it is. I mean back in the day the russians would use tv / movies etc to train their sleepers to put in other countries and be able to fit in without any notice until needed. That is a fact if you know anything about our Governmental History. (USA)

They were progammed to do a certain thing and did just what was *expected of them for *Their Country.

Between Religion and Government in all countries they do brainwash you to believe a certain way or a certain thing. Grant it we have Free Will yet in some countries god forbid you actually have your own thought or choice to use it. That is sad to know in this day and age.


I mean come on people we have been attacked by other counrties because they are so intent on wanting control or to change our ways and most wars are based on Religious things or the governments do not agree on or with what they want us (other countries ) to believe or do.

The sad thing is that even if at war for years and years when all said and done they (governments & Religions) are still gonna do what they want. People sign up to be the ones to die for their counrty due to an age old religion or belief in a government that really do not care as long as they get what they want done bottom line.

I am not pointing at Soldiers that fight to defend their countries it is pointed at the ones who are BRAINWASHED to believe that their way is the only right way of life. That is the sad part.

I hope no one is offended by my post I am just saying how I feel or think. *free will* and all ...

Welli know of two books that can help people "break the chains" so to speak
The Satanist Bible-Anton Szandor Lavey
A wolf in wolf's clothing-Thorin
These are amazing pieces of the finest literature you will ever find. And the others are epic.

Ah JudasBrood,

thanks for bringing this up

The Satanist Bible-Anton Szandor Lavey


I have ran into many people claiming they are open minded, against religion, and as I take the time to talk with everyone of them, I find they were brainwashed into religion so much at an early age, their only known way to fight it is by keeping the exact same mind set while running to another religion such as this one.

Don't get me wrong, I understand "The Satanist Bible", but the fact it is wrapped up so much in religion and reinforces what it is against only helps to do more harm than good.

After all, to truly destroy something (such as religion) one can not build a foundation upon it. It must instead be erased from existence by giving it no attention, and removing it all together.

Atheists are the same way. Built upon a Belief system. This is what a religion is, a belief system.

In order to wipe out all religions (anything based on belief), I propose we do away with all labels and any such groups. Cause to keep one is to keep them all, and this is the problem.

Marilyn Manson knows this, this is why he didn't care to do anything with the religion when Anton Szandor Lavey handed it over to him.

ypu make excellent points and ive often wondered at the irony of "nonconformists conforming" but then, no one man (or woman) can bring down the great beast named religion. It takes conforming and groups to do something on that kind of scale

The answer is simple actually.

All we (or someone) needs to do is write a book stating it's not a religion or group of any kind and have it empower the individual in the same way but without any mentioning of any religious text.

Then post it for free download, and BAM!!! Down falls religion.

I think I can do it.

I strongly feel I can have an impact on everyone a thousand times more than what has been tried so far.

If anyone feels something is Anti-Religion, it won't work. So the intelligence level needs to be raised. This way they'll change how they look at religion, and not want to have anything to do with it. Thus doing exactly what they will be guided to do.

Of course such a book will need to have all answers to everything, as to draw attention and to destroy the ignorance of belief without knowledge.

I can do this.

I've been thinking...

It is possible to program someone into not being brainwashed at all

It's simply relearning how to think and handle/process information.

After they have their realization and are made aware, they must then be given new information on how to receive and give information correctly.

Working on this right now.

Thanks to everyone who posted for helping me with this.

If you have any more info to add, please do.
:)

Some people are not "brainwashed", they are delusional, and have resigned to an obviously irrational idealism, often fabricated with numerous fringe idealism.

They pleasure themselves as being academics.

It is just restoring their crictical thinking, and indendant thought. As I stated most people that are comprimised by cohesive manipulation are lack in engaging discernment, they are lazy, what others say becomes the path of least resistance.

You can read up on Micheal Shermers article at, Skeptics dictionary. some how you are making the topic more complex then it is.

Micheal Shermers brainwashes people in an odd way.

I think he seeks out people that already agree with him or at least has no intention of arguing with him.

He makes far out claims with no support and ignores certain truths to further enforce his lies.

Oh just wanted to add

Micheal Shermer videos on youtube have comments disabled. Anyone with comments disabled on youtube has something to hide.

brainwashing is like suggested thinking, anyone who is of a weaker mind can fall under any suggestion yet, if your conscience mind will not do it than, your subconscience mind will not allow you to do something that is not already there.

does that make sense? I mean like being hypnotised, you cannot make someone do something that they would not normally do.

Same with brainwashing if you want to do it or believe it you will otherwise you won't.

So the last and final question is "How does an intelligent person usually fall into having a weak mind?"

Could it be distracting their thoughts with images of personal gain, money, love, material possessions, a better life, doing cool stuff, visiting fun places, having a nice home?

Could it be tearing away at their hopes and dreams by forcing them to work all the time so they have less motivation, stress, constant health problems, worries, fears, fatigue, a feeling of being disconnected from others, unable to relax, unable to think?

I'll admit, I usually always thought of a weak mind as a druggie, a smoker, a drinker, or anyone else that shows no control over their own thoughts and actions. Looking at all this on a much larger scale though, these only appear to be the weakest ones.

ok... just adding something here real quick

Theories are just theories! They work like beliefs in how they are opinionated views untested and unproven made mostly out of speculation.

I also find it very disgusting how there are so many theories (most of which contradict each other) and how they all speak as if they are fact and thus become accepted as fact.

As science is usually based upon the Scientific Method, Scientific Theories are not.

Scientific Theories = Bull Shit

he is a logical person, what is your trip?

He is a skeptic, he has exposed frauds that fleece people. you say he is unsupported in his topics, give me one example. I bet would really think Richard dawkins was off his rocker too. I think shemer speaks for himself, and for a person to rant about someone that is not present is rather telling.

I am wondering how you got things all turned around..

I am concerned about your mental compacity for critical thinking.

honestly asfar as brainwashing goes i believe people stay in that mind state out of fear of believing anything else being wrong... such as a large amount of Christianity ... a few are sometimes not even believing in their own god yet cling to their beliefs.

Wiki, Brainwashing, the application of coercive techniques to change the values and beliefs, perceptions and judgments, and subsequent mindsets and behaviors of one or more people, usually for political, financial, personal, or religious purposes.

so is it yopur personal intent selective, to have people
convinced of your pet hypathetical, that everyone is brainwashed? Are you not yourself, convinced of some irrational idealism?

selective posted:
"I think he seeks out people that already agree with him or at least has no intention of arguing with him."




So by your own words he speaks common knowledge.

What everyone knows. though a minority reject, usually while holding personal ideals that are often found to be unsupported.

So why so anti-science selective?

ThothLestat I must agree with you. I DVR all my shows as I work nights. It takes me 42 to 45 minutes to watch an hour long show by skipping the commercials.
As for the general topic at hand. I don't feel that society is brainwashed. Every society has morals, political beliefs, and differing cultures. As children our parents or guardians teach us these beliefs. As we grow older and have life expirences of our own we chose to conform or not.
Lastly religion is not always bad. For many it is what helps get them/us through the day.

"Anyone with comments disabled on youtube has something to hide."

Uh, no... That is an opinion. I used to have my comments disabled for the fact that most of those comments were negative to begin with. immature comments that were more insultive then agreeable in the long run.

Which is a good reason why his comments could be disabled.

More then often it is a minority that is compelled to use cohesive techniques, to present their irrational ideals upon others, or to appear that their idea is fesible. it is often a minority that are easily convinced that society is brainwashed, and that their the ones that broke free of mental bondage, when in fact they only find a path of least resistance.. ie.. blame the majority for ones inability to adapt to Common sense, and common knowledge.

Radical, ideas are presented as "gifted" insight, to
intice those who are accepting it. this makes them feel special, they think such things as: "Nobody is as smart as me, noone is smart enough to comprehend this concept."

More then often it is a minority that is compelled to use cohesive techniques, to present their irrational ideals upon others, or to appear that their idea is fesible. it is often a minority that are easily convinced that society is brainwashed, and that their the ones that broke free of mental bondage, when in fact they only find a path of least resistance.. ie.. blame the majority for ones inability to adapt to Common sense, and common knowledge.

Radical, ideas are presented as "gifted" insight, to
intice those who are accepting it. this makes them feel special, they think such things as: "Nobody is as smart as me, noone is smart enough to comprehend this concept."

MK Ultra, CIA, mind control, pyschic assassins (yes, the prgram was quite real- Google Russell Tarq), assassins who appear to be in a daze, Catcher in the Rye, and no you really aren't in control of much anyway

Dabbler,

That guy you spoke so highly of for his facts denied the bombs inside the trade center buildings, but he did so in a way that wasn't actually dishonest, but more in a way that was twisting the facts. He threw it all together as the "Bush Behind It" theory in which he laughs it off without even once adding there was maybe another possibility. As he preached his narrow view (seen only from what he heard, not gathered) and declared his view as fact while ignoring all the actual facts, then noticing he had comments turned off, it was easy to see he was pulling a "Scientology". Whenever someone straight out lies and then turns off their comments on youtube, that's what I call pulling a "Scientology". They want to control their audience.


About the science post I made, I was stating Science is not Scientific Theories. A theory is just a theory. Someone in another thread pissed me off by stating a persons (OPINION) AKA Unproven Scientific Theory as FACT. When dealing with science and its FACTS, only the Scientific Method can be applied. Not Theories!!! As for science, let's not forget they still haven't answered the question "Where does matter get its mass?". I have found the answer in my research using the scientific method, so I know about science.

Selective, Ad hominium attacks, are such an obvious fallacy. You are so obsessed with a trivial detail.

you are also fleeing to tangents.

I copied this info from wikipedia


--------------------------

An ad hominem argument has the basic form:

Person 1 makes claim X
There is something objectionable about Person 1
Therefore claim X is false

--------------------------

a fallacy is a misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning in argumentation

--------------------------



Dabbler, I can't believe you over looked the Twin Tower bombs inside the towers to side with that guy that denied them? Do you also deny the bombs inside the towers?

Watch this and then decide for yourself...
http://lc911finalcut.com

oh brother... another "Loose Change" clip.
I thought you were a proponent of science, not conspiracy theories and unanswered questions.

I'll match your link with mine.
911 myths

Check, and mate.

How is any of that relative to this post?

This is further of tangent luring. a common practice of
uneducated debaters.

Example:


What Fringe Beliefs do you share with guys that
are psudoacademics, with nothing but piece meal conspiracy. if there is .."IF" there is any merit to what they by the time you weed out the barely credible, and the career lot (ones that joy in outing other "theorist", even if I did "buy the pitch", there would be other in the "know" that object.

here you are jogging around, and waiting for the thread to inflate your idealism.

Nothing wrong with fringe beliefs.. "theories" or such, but really keep them in context.

Present youer case, rather then beat down detour path. here you are talking cohesive techniques, and you
place yourself into amoung potential examples.

start a poll, Do tyou believe society is brainwashed. and make a catigory for " I may be the only person that is self brainwashed'.

hahaha oh Dabbler, the link for (loose change) was all science based and full of facts only, with no personal assertions made and it was YOU that jumped to a conclusion first CLAIMING it to be Conspiracy without first weighing the evidence and proof...

I just made my point...

but this is all related to the topic, very much so, cause this thread is about Truth, having a Clear Mind, Not Being Brain Washed.

So with this I ask, if a FACT is ignored, Why?

If a TRUTH is denied, Why?

Is it from hypnotic suggestion?




Just as earlier with the science post I made.

We all know Science is real.

But we know Theories Are Not.

Combine both and you have a hypnotic suggestion where the mind only hears the word "Science" and thus the Theory becomes A Fact to your subconscious and your mind then begins to treat it as such.


Do you see where I'm going with all of this?

If I ever appear to be throwing something off topic, please read in between the lines. I have an odd way of going about things to clarify myself.

you are making no sense. Can someone please translate for selective? surely if what you are convinced of, others would jump right in to support you. If it is such general knowledge, why are these guys publishing books, and senimars, and pocketing the money, rather them petitioning, and paying investigators, to florensic dicovery?

Who's pitch do you subscribe to?

Dabbler, I guess we should agree to disagree.

So is one of us wrong, or is both of us wrong on certain things? No need to answer this, only we know the answers, but not at this point in time.



ThothLestat, thanks for the link, I'll look it over this weekend.

agree to disagree, that is faulty reasoning.

you assume so much. Am am actually indifferent to that which you are convicted.. obsessed with.

This is a tangent, something you went into this thread, itching to introduce.

Since you highjacket your own thread, I will post my final post regarding your tangent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcrF346sS_I



Who do you subscribe to? Or is that a "need to know.. hush hush.. secret club oath violation.. careful.. They-might-be-monitoring!

Brain washers can be known as cults that harm the minds of others, that brain wash people by filling their heads with crap. They brain wash people to get them to beleive in what they beleive, by getting people to follow their beleif system. They are closed minded

to expand on that.. Cults are more led to be devoteed more to a leader, and a self syled authority, on their personal fabricated interpretation of choice religios texts.. etc.

I found this and thought of this thread .

"You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free "

Maybe the truth it,s self is another form of brain washing . It,s just another pattern of thinking to conform to .

Interesting..........

But there can only be one Truth, cause it is neither an opinion or belief. IT IS FACT.

What amazes me is how people so intelligent, and open-minded could still hold their belief over fact.

There are things I know and things I do not know. I have eliminated the word "belief" from my vocabulary. So I cannot be Brain Washed.

An argument based upon belief shows one is brain washed.

When one argues with a question such as "Why would they do that?", it is a sign that they are brain washed. Especially cause they would rather hear another belief than to hear A FACT. When one argues with anyones personal affairs as to side step the subject at hand and to discredit the one with FACTS, not only are they still searching for something to believe, it is also in their interest to deny all FACTS so they may have their Belief instead.

Looks like we found the #1 sign of the Brain Washed. Those that hold Belief over Fact.

Does using CAPS ever convince anyone? You subscribe to what you accept as truth. What sources, have led you to your conclusion?

On the first note: ~Magic25UK~, cults cause brain washing, not the other way around.

On the second note: ~Selective~, People with enough intelligence will accept that the subconscious mind adapts to a belief system throughout their lives. It is the process of working out the facts that create a new area to research for those belief systems to become just and convincable. Which is why most of the younger society always seems to back out of certain religious principles for others that would suite their frame of mind and or thought process.

In other words, people decide what they should belief in after it has been embedded in their minds since childhood, after they gain an adult"ish" frame of mind. Accepting facts for differant belief systems.

I am not sure how clear I am making myself, but I think the audience gets the jist.

Truth is what is recorded....

Truth is formed from gathered sources to determine a course of events....

Truth is based only on facts....


If everyones view were a piece of a puzzle. Truth would be the puzzle itself, cause a false view would not fit anywhere.

some will actually mix "puzzles pieces" then attempt to
make the pieces fit.

Pet idealisms, are consistantly vague, and when a hard questions requires a commitment to reveal sources that a person subscribes to, it is never readidly available.

as I follow this thread, it becomes very political in induendo. Alluding to the accompanying rants, and conspiracy packages.

though selective did post a blurb relating to 911 hyperbole.

Like a pit bull with a beef flavored rope toy.

Most will ~Dab~, it is by instinct and that natural drive to prove what is conspiracy as fact or truth. Even if beyond the shadow of doubt, that most conspiracy theories are just that... Theory. Nothing like the paranoid harbinger to conclude with speculation and involve society in instantanious theory based on popular hearsay, even if the "facts" are not readily available. Those who aspire to this fundamental talent would be the true brain washing agents of untold agenda's.

Examples


conspiracy theory:
___ did this to ___ for ___ and then ___ caused ___ to ___


conspiracy fact:
we know ___ happened and we have ___ to prove it. We do not know anything else.



As I posted earlier with the comment regarding "Science" Vs "Scientific Theories". Then in the post I made under it explaining it in more detail. This also applies, look again and see the connection.

Please pause for a moment, step back, and realize what is happening and what your mind is doing.



Conspiracy Theories = Bull Shit

Conspiracy Facts = Truth


To assume all Info is Theory and not Fact is your mind clinging to Belief over Fact.

~Selective~, either you posted that to prove my point, or you posted it to reiterate what I basically just said. Either way, it was almost worded as a challenged post to something that I stated. If this is the case, then your point is rather moot. Since the only thing that you seem to be doing is rambling on with examples by definition, no offense.

SS, yes I was agreeing with you, but you also left out how facts are all thrown together with all that false info, which is how closed minds work.

Just felt I needed to clarify that.

I left that out intentionally to give others a chance to respond with the same notion. I cannot give everything away.. I like to keep the audience on their feet.

But I will conjecture your "that is how close minds work" response.

As those that will bring together facts with fiction, is the point of brain washing society. It is a very intelligent process actually. Who knows what is truth fortold from the lie, but as the truth is mixed in with the lie and they both make sense, then which is the truth vs the lie. Which is why, if the brain washer is intelligent enough, they will make the process a bit well, batman vs the riddler way of thinking, as a parable way of wording certain things to create a confusing, yet clear way of thinking. Keeping the topic as coherent as possible with slight descrepancies. Makes one think even more to seperate the facts from the fictions.

The close minded on the other hand will not aspire to see the truth from the lies, but instead believe what they are told regardless of either. Therefore, the open minded individuals are the ones causing the manipulation and brainwashing.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.