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Would you…yeah I am talking to you! Would you really want to get along with all in The Vampire Rave? Would you truly want everyone to have your same thoughts? Share your ideals? Exist in a huggy buggy cavalcade of good cheer? Not I ~scowls~! That would truly be Hell!

I love the debates…I love the battles…I love trying to back another into a corner! I have always loved being attacked. It has never been for attention…I really have no dire need of that…as hard as that may be for some of you to believe. I love watching intellect pitted against intellect and I love joining the fray. Back me into a corner please…if you can. I hate to admit this…but…I love that perhaps…perhaps I will be somehow enlightened…eh…it could happen.

Yes I alienate myself…that is quite natural for me to do…I think of it as a gift. Thank God I have no need to fit in…how boring. And is that not exactly what it is…boring? Oh sure…sure…I suppose a friend or two can be nice. I have joined a group or two in my time…in moments of insanity…and if they were devoid of confrontation? ZZZzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzz! I was bored to tears…tears I tell you! I ran out faster than Barney Frank dropping to his knees!

You are like bees in my brain…”But MeanMeanMrTu…you…you joined The Vampire Rave!”…yes…yes I did…but I knew what I would find…and you have not let me down! Besides…most of you are so damn creative here…truly a site of kooks and monsters! How could I not come back?

Peace and harmony? Is that truly what you want? Peace and harmony is for old women in rockers.

The beauty of existence is the struggle…the fight…the battle.

*Raises brow*Was there a point to this thread, Mr. Tu.. Or were you just babbling at the mouth again?

Don't make me back you into the perverbial corner...

So...you are saying...you do not understand the question put forth in this Thread?

Oh, I understand the question, I just reserve the right not to respond to it. As I will not be antagonised. Go ahead though, and have fun. I may patronise and condescend you along the way, yes. But have fun, nonetheless.

But...*ponders*...you have responded to it...see...if you did not post at all...that would be not responding to it.

No sense in a game of wits, Mr. Tu. Unless, you consider this to be your way of backing someone into a corner.

No...I just want you to explain how a post is not responding.

As well, do you see the game of wits from my end? Acting like you in such a way. Makes one ponder how to of the same mind, would not be irritating if played right. I guess the scenerio would have to be differant for the point to come across naturally.

What I "see"...is I asked a valid question regarding debate...whether it was really wanted by the community as a whole not to have such things. Did they really wish harmony?

What I got was you pretentiously parading and capering about as though a very haughty superior. You could have given some thought to the question and gave your personal opinion.

I am lost, I have no idea where this thread is expected to go.. but I will none the less post, because the other threads i was depending on to raise my count have been closed.

BTW, I fully expected this to be a thread to promote.. mayhaps instigate a duel between those who wish to be more "true vamp(y)ire" then the others.

Since most within the "vampire" social clubs IE communities, are rather pretentious and have that air of authority surrounding them, then my point came across rather well.

Though part of it was missed. Two minds that think alike can share a space without any sort of derogatory comments for one another. Was I questioning the thread? Nope, just acting like someone who would cause a game of wits to happen. Veiled in a conversation, trying to one up the one next to them, for the sake of intellectual debate that seems to happen every so often that tries to prove who has the greater "whatever."

Dualing anything happens all the time. It is always a one upmanship. It seems to be for the benefit of posterity.

fair enough, I can agree with that.. but in the mean time.. what should we do?

Even those who share a common ideal have factions, they may agree 95% with each other.. but that remaining 5% they will debate until they open different congregations.

well debate about something,if tu wants a debate give him one,what sunject though? actually you have already been debating lol

I have no desire to get along with everyone or even most. I to like a good debate MeanMeanMrTu.
The problem I find most often is the topics being debated is worth the time.

Yeah, but more often then not, we have those too immature or hot headed that oft times resort to out right insults if they percieve the debater talking down abou them, though it was not aimed at them.

Personally, I do not get along with people real time. But I am quite the conversationalist nonetheless, it just depends on the topic.

Which is why I so greatly debate with myself to which threads are worth the time.

I like to debate and say my point of view, however if I disagree with someone, it's just that a disagreement, I don't see why it should be taken personally. Even friends and partners disagree. However the opinion of others matter as well.

That's the purpose of this Forum to debate, but not to be offensive, that's another thing, debating is different from fighting.

I disagree on the notion that anything other then debating is "fighting," not at all. I would not call it fighting, since fighting is a physical format. I would istead term it either bickering, or quarreling. Argument if you will.

Yes I just couldn't remember which right word to use in English because in my native language we use fight for both occasions.

Anyway people should also remain on topic otherwise it is just a confusion.

Peace and Harmony yes I want that, if that makes me old I don't mind.

Why should we want peace when it comes to an intellectual and spiritual melting pot such as this? How else would we learn new things, in turn questioning our own beliefs as well as providing a different one for someone else.

Not to mention...if done in a completely honest yet astute way those with half a brain will appreciate the debate and take what they wish from it-with an open mind of course.

People should know how to use their words ethically, and give reasons why they either agree or disagree with an opinion, that was my point.

You mean objectively, instead of obtrusively or obstructive? With an objective frame of mind, one can stand in almost any debate rather then the obtrusive individual that creates an obstructive path that does tend to put anyone into the perverbial corner and meaning it. Therefore, causing the debate to turn into an arguement where there is nothing but quarreling from all sides. Then, the point of the debate is unfortunately lost.

Debates are great and very useful, as long as everyone in the debate is listening to what's being said. All it takes is one person who want to prove someone wrong, instead of just stating their own views, and it quickly become an argument instead of a debate. I love all the different views on this site, so much to learn from it all, after listening and researching of course. Just as long as nobody post with the only intent being to prove someone wrong. Pointing out holes in a person's post or raising questions is great. But poke holes in someones thread unless you know what they're saying in the first place. Otherwise you're just trying to prove them wrong just for the sake of proving them wrong. And I don't believe that's part of a proper debate. So... who wants to debate :)

I seek out intelligent people and I carefully read their energy before approaching them.

I seek a higher consciousness from everyone, and to those that are not ready I cast aside without a word uttered in hope they may be ready the next time they cross my path.

However, we all have different mind sets.

We all have different goals.

I however see everything and through everything, so I tend to think inside the thoughts of others.


Debating should never be done to prove yourself, only to raise the awareness and intellect of another.

I seek not to argue with anyone.


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On a side note, the rush I feel from a confrontation, I feed on it, and the more intense the drama, usually the clearer I can think, only my actions become much quicker and automatic, and my vision becomes lucid and fixed.

I always thought debating was to understand were each individual is coming from. Like a debate on politics, religon, etc. I know those are often pretty interesting debates. But many times there's really no point at the end of the debate either the parties do argue or the agree to disagree and than move on.

This got me thinking of my debate team in Junior C.
Trailing tangents does not a debate make. Sparing over semantics, and unsupported (note not evididenced) position. it appears on topic, but it is fleeing to a tangent.


Seldomly do peaple who are emotional invested in their belief, politics, etc.. make wise options for a debate team.

In answer to your question, Mr. Tu...this place would be very boring if we all thought alike and if we were all huggy like 2 bugs in a rug...ewww...did somebody just hug me?..oh no...*cheers* to debates and freedom of speech...

Without challenge life would be boring...at least to me.

I do believe in respect for one another, but there is no way everybody is going to all get along on even one city block let alone a website.

If we all wished to live in blissful harmony we would be on facebook talking about the trivialites of the day. The debate, the many ideas, beliefs, cultures make this a true melting pot and an opportunity for people who actually think, to get together and communicate. Sometimes communication involves debate. It doesn't have to mean arguing, though there are some who would much rather argue or ridicule than debate. There have been some very good points made here, most by those who can usually be counted on to do so, but also by others who we might not hear from as often.

Yes.

It is very entertaining.

Angela Ashes.. I Disagree.. it is Rather entertaining.. not Simply Entertaining..

;)

To everything you do there is a cost, a balance and a reaction. When energy manipulation goes wrong, the consequences can be detrimental to physical, mental, and spiritual health, so it is important to know when to stop, and how to fix mistakes.

Well i do believe this thread has accomplished it's goal and has started a debate... huzzah.

I love debating, and yes MrTu I agree completely VR would be boring without those of us who have an enthusiasm for it. Here is where the problem lies though.

People tend to mistake suggestions and healthy debate for a personal character attack on an all too regular basis. Quite sad really, I have noticed occasions when people take offence in such a way the thread is closed.

I also am often left wondering why some people ask for an opinion or open up a debate in a thread, when they make it painfully clear early on after just a few responses, that all they really wanted was for you to agree with their thoughts on the topic at hand.

The convictions of those who post in the forum in this manner must not be as strong as you try to suggest if they still feel the need to constantly seek out others approval.

**must not be as strong as THEY try**

I like a good honest debate, even among my friends -- and often play Devil's Advocate when the situation warrants it. It's a good mental exercise to know what the weaknesses and strengths of your arguments are.

Lolita, and Thoth.. well stated. Lolita I feel those threads are seeking testimonial, under the pretense of
discussion. a underlying motive of this is social phishing, often a person with generic intrest in a subculture, or what not is compelled (usually by ridicle from members of said subculture) to bolster their generic knowledge.

So they go phishing for gems, the bait varies.

I'm not so cynical, Dab, but I think some members have already made up their mind about a specific topic & are only seeking validation and consensus of their views.

I follow your reasoning.

Which implies their conviction is not as strong as they would have others think. In part they are seeking fortification against reasonable critique of their loosly held convictions. Too often I see members blur the line between beliefs, and convictions.

ah yes, "reasonable" to you and me, but to them; "critique" is another word for "attack". Yes?
*strokes invisible goatee*

Most people welcome being told their Fallacies are exposed..

You know,I have often noticed that when it comes to Vampires,there always seems to be a real resentment towards those who profess being or are addressed as a King of the Vampires or Queen.Take Don the Vampire..when things about him were posted here on VR.,peeps got all worked up and wouldnt say anything good about him,and werent supportive of him.I wonder why?or when some other vampire gets any kind of public attention or acclaim,all you hear is how poser or roleplayer they are etc...

Occeanna, Perhaps it is the need to save face.

Often those who seek to convince others are threatened by others who are in a position to present their interptetation of an idealism. This puts the person who would have others accept their interpretation (or lack of). The threat is that people will
respond to their claims with.."Well Don Henry said on Tyra That Vampires.."

or, "Why arn't you speaking about what you define vampires as?"

Anyone who comes out and says.. I am a Vampire..
often follows their professing, with "But I can't say what I criteria makes me a vampire."

Perhaps, this is related to the apparent desire to appear "mystical", and "Mysterious".

Hmm,yes perhaps you are right in that Dab.I would hate to think that would be the only motivation though.
However,I had posted in another thread...Dreamwalker.TheBan and SS were talking and I thought it a good opp. to do an experiment of sorts.I have offered to participate and have put out a call there for others to help.Its been two days.Not one reply. :(
And yet I see so many professing they can hop around in dreams.My question is,how will we ever find out or gather any evidence that this is something we can really do as humans or if its a bunch of crapp? Or...if it is something that we can do ,only it just occurs randomly? needless to say,I am really dissapointed that no one has stepped up to the plate on this.Who cares if we bomb out .At least we are trying to prove these things exsist.
And you know as well as I do I would love to be able to do that.

Debate of cultures or sub cultures are always promenant in every spectrum of society, for individualism is based on one thoughts and their structure in which they dictate ones life. debate is always there, but why debate thoughts and idealism is theirs and mine are mine debate if you want. no sense in it I see.

First welcome back Cadre.

Where is the line crossed, by those who hold the idealism? Is it the idealism they are debating, or their personal agenda?

I find more people wanting others to accept their claims of experiences, then to subscribe to their ideals.

Then their are those who pitch ideals, and beliefs that they don't even subscribe to, but just want to see how many they can feed it to, such indivuiduals are flushed out in public venues.