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i had a thread on here that was closed that asked a question. allow me now to rephrase the question. we know of many beliefs where there is a good and a bad side to it. could we as humans be misunderstanding the message, or perhaps only reading one sides propaganda?

this can be christianity, islam, ..even wicca (perhaps the left hand path is the better one for mortals).

while i am very curious about everyones ideas, please PLEASE dont use this as an opportunity to bash others beliefs. i want to approach this philosophically with maturity. each belief system can be held up to ridicule (mine included, but i really do hope we can explore this question without negativity.

for the moderators- if this thread still seems too provocative, i appologize and will not open a similar thread.
thanks

I think all religions can and are misunderstood by at least someone out there. It's not the 'religion' that's to blame either- it's usually the people that read their own agenda into and turn things into negatives. Most religions are positive... some bad things may have happened in their histories, but Christianity gets a really bad wrap for its stories- whereas Greek Mythology and similar are praised as awesome stories even with the wrath of their gods. Why? Maybe it is because so many people really believe in the Judeo-Christian writings as opposed to other myths regarded as just 'stories'. Well honestly, I regard many of these Biblical works as just stories myself (Jesus spoke in parables)- but stories that speak truth nonetheless. There is a difference between truth and fact: something might not be factual- but it still might speak truth. Like Aesop's Fables- they're meant to be stories that teach you something.

These Biblical stories don't fly with a lot of people because people of today view it all with a modern eye. You can't really get an honest grasp of it without a good knowledge of their culture, tradition, and writing style.

Pagans get a bad wrap because many have been colored by a specific view given to them... when there is no concept of the 'devil' in Wicca, for example. Some rarely have the ability to clear their minds and learn something on their own without misguided influences.

I think almost all religions are misunderstood, especially in modern times.
Take the bible for example, the books written in the bible are writtin from a 2000+ year old civilization where science and technology didnt exist like it does now.
When they speak of angels and other heavenly beings visiting earth and they describe what they looked like. They describe that experience the best way they can.
If modern man saw such things there would be some kind of scientific explanation for these visions.

What I think is wrong is extreme islam followers think it is Allah that blesses them for the killing and hatred they have in this stupid war, and they justify it as Allah's will.
Yea if a country was invading my homeland and trying to force me to follow them I surely would be just as pissed off, But I wouldnt say attacks on these invaders would be justified as God's will.

Thats my take on it, i could go on and on but those are some of the main examples I see in modern times where people misinterpret religions.

Be careful not to get into politics or religion bashing. It's hard to keep these threads alive, and the only way we can do it is to not get personal with feelings towards politics and negativity of other people's belief-systems.

Well I also feel it just does not matter what religion it is or belief people are set in their whole history of the basic Religions, then you have people who as was said add their own way or thought on the reliond or belief that they themselves has.

peopl are still as it was eons ago some religions and beliefs are just considered taboo / bad/ not really a religion any way you wish to put it.

Grant it society has slowly opened up and *allow* the many other religions, such as Wiccan, Satanism and Islamic, Buddism etc. just to name a very few, to be talked and discussed more in the public eye than it has been in the past, yet they are still questionable and frowned upon by many. Kinda like how dare you even think that such an dsuch can even be considered a religion

Religious beliefs will always be misunderstood unless people actually take the tike to learn about them from *Reliable Sources* such as one ofour Finset on here *ImagesInwords* among others that can actually sit and explain the many different avenues, on Religion adn their different beliefs.

untill they do that then we will have nay -sayers, doubting Thomases etc. so to speak. Yet it would be nice if we could teach it as a class in our school s as an Elective *choice* if the child and parents allow and in highschool I think we should still have World History as to including everything of each country, and the beliefs that govern their main streams.

yet I do not see that to happen anytime soon since they do not even allow us to use the word god etc. any more I remember always first thing in class we pledged to the United states flag of / for alligence (sp).

yes I am old LOL no but old enough to had seen alot of things change some bad some good.
Our family was taught to respect them all and learn about them so that maybe just maybe we may understand the difference and why or how they believe what they do believe.

just my opinion...

I dont get mormonism. I think it's a cult.

i think every religion is takin out of context by different people... im willing to bet(myself included)noone gets the exact meaning of any religion

If we speak in generalities, then I see religion as doing more harm than good. The main problem being DOGMA.

They may start out with a few fine precepts to guide humanity to treat one another better, but ultimately all the metaphors, parables, gospels, quatrains and rambling on reduces down to limiting thinking. "My answers are only answers," Religion says.

And the way the three major religions do it is to use fear.

Religion exists because we are communal animals who fear death and follow the charismatic pack leader. Most of us seek easy answers, and religion is there to supply them.

All religions are misunderstood and are twisted in some way. Some get a bad wrap because of the way people in that religion express themselves or like in Christianity try to force Christianity on people. Most think they are right in that their religion is the only path to God. That I don't agree with at all. I believe in all paths to God.

Messianic Judaism gets a bad wrap all the time because people do not think it is what it is and condone it. It is basic Christian beliefs with Jewish Holidays therefore making it what Christ was when he was alive.


Wicca, Islam, Left Hand Path etc get bashed and are misunderstood all the time because people don't understand the religions and are close minded in some way about religion. Society is slowly coming around and opening up about the different religions that are around.

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Your question: We know of many beliefs where there is a good and a bad side to it. could we as humans be misunderstanding the message, or perhaps only reading one sides propaganda?
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In general with all religions, I would divide the message into three parts.

1. Spiritual Concepts
2. Social Law & Order
3. World Domination For Absolute Control



I think most get into religion for the Spiritual Concepts and don't realize the dangers they unleash by allowing the religions to become the very dictators in politics that they fear and try to run from.

There is Religion, and then there's Organized Religion. Think of Religion as a classroom full of kids. Organized Religion would be the kid in the back of the class that gets the whole class in trouble so the whole class has to stay after school. My point here is no matter how important and loving the Religions are, I feel they should break away from Government Paid Churches and Paid Preachers! They should never be associated with or involved with any country, politicians, or leaders! They should never try to control what others think by making them fear or hate concepts they have not looked at or studied yet! They should never be material or turn anyone away, and they should never seek to take rights away from anyone who has done nothing to anyone else.

Orwel wrote about The Thought Police in his book "1984", and this is how I see Religions. Combined with Law & Order so you fear certain thoughts and hate others without knowing why cause of all the conditioning that's been done to you your whole life. This is more often the result of psychology and psychiatry but was started by Religions and still a direct influence of Religions. Growing up today in this age, everyone is expected to have a religion upon receiving a birth certificate, so in this fashion I feel religions have slipped into society as something everyone identifies with while never taking a second glance at.

I never bash any Religions. I simply feel their is a time and place for everything, and the time and place for all religions should be kept in books or shared in discussion groups only. The same with any group, someone will always want to play leader, and when they do, this is when everything always goes down hill.

It was my research into the supernatural and how the mind works that eventually lead me to my deep understanding. I'm sure there are others that think deeper than me, we are all slowly on the same path to realization.

I think the biggest danger to religion is the people that don't understand their own, because everything they know is from the book of hear-say. Then there are the people that maliciously misdirect the ignorant masses into pogroms of hate.

I am not sure most people even want to understand... even if comprehension came without effort.

The majorissue when it come to religions and when people trying to teach it is they most of the times go out of context. Things be angled in directions that not always is true and into views that suit the beliver. I think it is very importent to understand the context of it as it is writen and not just fragment of it.

thanks for the replies guys...stimulating conversation here.
as for mormanism (or anything for that matter) and cults.

technically any belief system with set ritual is a cult. ive known a number of mormans, and they treat their kids well, and seem quite honorable.
isnt there a line about "by their works you shall know them"?

ive heard that almost any non christian belief is a cult or inspired by satan.
ive also heard from non christians that all christianity is a cult, mind controling, hating, etc.

im of a belief system called asatru. i love it and it fits me, but those folks so many centuries ago that were asatru could be pretty harsh. the ancient celts could be harsh (wicker man anyone?), and yes...the ancient greek beliefs could be very very harsh.

i really dont think so much its the belief system...i think what matters is what is done with it. there have been some serious ugliness from medieval christianity, ancient paganism, and modern islam (among others), but ive got friends that are islamic that are great folks...i know great people that are christian (many sects), satanists, pagans....you name it.

ive also seen people of many different belief systems trash others beliefs. ive seen pagans get all torqued up about how intolerant christians are ...while be pretty damned intolerant of them.

sorry folks not really going anywhere with this monologue, just ruminating.
~W~

LordWolf, you mentioned "Wicker Man", I saw that movie. It's about the island of all women that.. well... I don't want to spoil the ending for anyone who may have not seen it yet, but yeah. Then the few guys on the island with them are their slaves.

There was also an Outer Limits Show about a guy that wakes after being in a deep sleep for many years. He wakes to find he's the only man among a world with only women where men are gone and don't exist anymore. In this show they mention women are peaceful and it's the men that are war and hate driven. The ending here is nearly the same as the Wicker Man movie, but this show had a much better plot and a much better ending.

I think these were based on an idea that the world might be able to live in peace with no violence at all if men were wiped off the face of the Earth, and women could self produce offspring artificially. Not sure who originally came up with the idea though, or if any religious groups actually follow it. It's just Sci-Fi I think.



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About Cults, Cults are defined as any groups that seek an outside control over their members. This includes limiting and restricting their communication and resources with the outside world.

Seeing how most of society is sheep, I think most people act as if they were in a cult and so many groups of people have been referred to as cults without actually being cults.

I agree that all religions are misunderstood. Because most religious points of view can be manipulated and interpretations of texts are used to suit individuals who want to corrupt it for their own personal use. That use generally being to control others.

I think all religions are amazing and have much to teach people. Nearly all religions have a concurrent theme running through them and that is peace and love within you, and towards others.

So all in all the misunderstanding comes from people who wish to use the religion for their own wants and gains.

Religions are misunderstood because their philosophies make them so, philosophies are written by the hand of man or woman, and therefore would be flawed in one or two places or disagreed with by others.

Which is why there are more then one religion in the world. Those of whom have created those religions were trying to subject their audiences into a frame of mind best suited for which ever community they were living in, as well as based on their nationality.

It is all political in the long run, since religion is all about the politics behind closed doors as in how to gain control of the masses by certain types of manipulation tactics. What is said during Chapel time, who has the most respect and or authority to preach what ever they want the public to be programmed with. Just as with television stations. Televangialists do it all the time because they, or their heirarchy know what to say and how to say it.

Yes, religion has lost its main meaning a long time ago. Which is why it is so misunderstood. But, why would those individuals in the heirarchy want to program society? For what purpose or cause? What is the main agenda. These questions still have yet to be answered by those of higher powers on the physical level.

Damn the man!!

I remember when I ran into my Ex-sister-in-Law, about a year ago.

When we were talking and she found out I was in a non-structured religion, her 1st response was....I needed to go to her church and get deprogrammed.

I just smiled.

People do misunderstand other's beliefs.

I know a person who wants to be in a actual coven so bad....at first it was a study group and now it is a year and a day that must be completed. Casting circles with her few members.

The point I am getting to is I do not judge these people.

Books are wonderful guides. But it is my actions and words that I am accountable for.
People may misunderstand my beliefs, but it is I within
that is working on a Higher Level of Spirituality.
I believe any religion is a personal one,
Now when people misuse words for money or for those who want followers as in a cult.
It shows money can be one greedy, and those who are cult follower's put their beliefs more in a man, (the leader),
then trusting in a Higher Power.

As to the misunderstanding about religions, i agree with those who find both the believers and the non-believers in and out of a religion often do not understand the particular religion involved in the discussion. Since I actually read every post on a particular thread before I post, I recommend everyone that has not yet done so to read Kglitterous' post. He makes a statement there [I am parphrasing here] that he is not sure that people really want to understand anyone else's religion or perhaps even their own religion '"even if comprehension came without effort."

WOW. I shout WOW. That is something we all should think hard about. If we understood all religions we would probably not criticize them. But what is thrown at us by the media is "look at what this religious nut did". Whether it is Satanism, Christianity, Judiasm or Islam, what do any of us really know about these religions if we have not studied them. But we are quick to criticize the religion of the abortion doctor killer or the religion of the suicide bomber or the religion of the man who murders in the Gaza Strip or the vampire killers from Kentucky rather than criticize them for their act of free will. in each case their unprovoked, murderous act of free will was based on [and we all should be able to agree on this] a misinterpretation of their own religion.

Than you for your insight Kglitterous. In the all out war of religion against religion, I salute your understanding.

food4thought

Religion is everywhere and unfortunately misunderstood by many cause no one wants to learn more about them.

Religions, it seems to me, usually tend to have far more in common than not when their foundational teachings and values are examined. And, after all, are not these two areas the most important motivating factors in revering and following any such?

The "Golden Rule" did not originate with Christianity but, in fact, was espoused 600 years earlier in China by Confucious. And this is not at all to say that it originated with him, either.

Whether expressed secularly, spiritually, philosophically or religiously, the same principles and values that bring lasting happiness and fulfillment are, after all, fairly universal regardless of culture or, for that matter, religion. Thus, almost all religions do hold such time-honored values as the foundations thereof... simply because they have been proven to work and to be of great worth, or... value.

The difference seems to lie in HOW such values are propagated and HOW they are taught. Herein lies the disparity.

Almost all religions teach these core values through the use of ... allegories, usually. These are stories of past heroes and heroines who learn or naturally always choose actions based on such key values and are thus rewarded through sometimes natural though often supernatural forces or personages, as a result. And these serve to teach the importance of doing what is good and positive and uplifting (in religious terms: "righteous") so as to likewise benefit both in this life and the life hereafter.

Rituals result as the means of venerating, reverencing, and honoring such "heroes/heroines" as well as their teachings by vicariously taking part in their lives or commemorating their actions or teachings in life so as to emulate same in our own.

This is what seems pretty much the common denominators among all religions, something shared by all cultures and races.

The misunderstandings occur in one culture's difficulty in understanding or appreciating the religious rituals and beliefs of another, despite the similarity of foundational values... which does seem rather trivial given the foundational similarities shared by almost all.


As cults were mentioned... it also seems to be the case that just as there is great similarity between religions, so also there seems to be between politics and religion. To me, it seems that cults are to religion what dictatorships are to politics. In both, a central leader takes control of his/her constituents' lives and property while dictating to them their behavior. Just an observation.


- Upir'








lives of these heroic characters

But a brilliant observation UpirLikhyj.

food4thought

Religion is nothing more then a system of beliefs from various cultures that have been cultivated threw out the centuries, they are a system of various moral and ethical beliefs upheld by various cultures and the differences between each religions moral values and the desire to be"The True Religion" causes them to draw the line between other beliefs systems so they dont take the times to have an open mind and try to understand one anothers beliefs and values, it in my opinion is this ignorance and close mindedness that causes them to misunderstand one another sometimes to the point of causing new churches or beliefs to break off from older religions.

Any religion is misunderstood because everyone has their own ideas about religions, on their religions and others, whether they're religious and not.

Partially it influences what you were taught and where you are from. Example where I live the majority are Catholic therefore they assume the whole country is, so if they hear the words, Satanism, Pagan, Atheist,...they'll feel scared while others would feel annoyed if someone claimed they're Catholic. Unluckily you find many people who just believe what they were taught without questioning and shun or/and condone other religions.

It also influences how people portray themselves. Example, if one of a particular religion, all he does is to rant against other religions, someone else might think that all of the people of 'that' religion are like him.

Even the fact that a religion becomes popular you'll find people saying, people believe that religion because it's popular.

Even gettng influenced by a TV program which picks on a certain religion and we all know how society is influenced by the media.

Another thing is interpretation, the written and the practiced one. You find people of the same religion yet they practice it differently.

The problem is when people want to force their belief and their opinion on religion/s on others.

There are many religions and many labels.

i do think its tragic when one is unable to question the beliefs that one espouses. i dont mean to the point of rejection (altho it should be an option not ruled out). but it seems that if ones belief is strong, then questioning those beliefs would serve to strengthen that belief.

just my dos centavos tho
~W~

As we all know, all forms of written and preached religions are different depending on the culture.
Religions are good to keep people alive, to give them something to follow blindly in order to keep them busy and away from thinking outside the borders.
Throughout history and mankind, religion has been one of the most powerful control instruments.
Of course each and every religion is, in a way, misunderstood by some who are not not adepts of it.
I think the creator, the force, is somewhat upset, yet amused by the infinite forms it was given by mortals..
I do not intend to offend anyone, I myself am baptized as a Christian, but that does not mean that I wanted to, as I was, back then, a being who had absolutely no control or power of decision over itself.
I think that religion should be based on self, on the God within and not on something that someone - human like yourself - has written a loooong time ago.