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We have all seen the film about the spear of destiny that pierced the side of Christ.

However the History Channel confirm Hitler ordered the spear of destiny be sent from Vienna to Berlin during the second world war.

Nostradamus claims their are 3 deamons, now thought to be Napoleon, Hitler (he named Hisler)
The last is a man from the Middle-East with a blue turban.
perhaps Iran who will start the final war? they are developing nuclear weapons and have vowed to erase Israel.

Do you believe or know about the spear of destiny and the prophecy?

From what I remember....

the Spear of Destiny was the Spear that pierced Jesus Christ's side during his Crusifiction.

A Roman Centurion named Longinus, stabbed Christ to hasten his death.... some say out of compassion, others say to allow him to leave. But since the spear spilled Christ's blood..... Christ's followers have believed the spear was infused with Christ's power.....

Various warrior kings have possessed the Spear believeing it would grant them victory in battle.....

in addition.... the Spear was altered from it's original form, so it could house a Nail that is believed to be used a Christ's crusifiction...... and was even plated with Gold.

However.... during the centuries..... several Spears of Destiny have popped up.... causing confusion and debate over the authenticity of any and all of the Spears. And various scientific tests have not been able to prove with any certainty thatany of the Spears are truely the Spear of Destiny.

:)

Many rumors have been going around since the show constintine had came out about the Lance of Longinus( the spear of destiny). Yes rumors are said that Hitler and other world leaders searched for the spear, it is rumored that who ever holds the spear will the hold the power to defeat any army. Rumors that Alexander great had it in his position. but all rumors

One of the many holy relics that churches believe isd buried away from peoples eyes.

Many stories out there if you look.

There have been plenty of interpretations regarding the Holy Lance.

Here is a rundown of the history:

"THE MYSTERIOUS ANCIENT SPEARHEAD

Everyone knows that Jesus was pierced in the side with a Spear of some sort. It is usually assumed that it was just an ordinary Roman soldier's spear that just happened to be available at the time. Later, it passes into many hands, arriving--supposedly--into Hitler's possession at the start of the Second World War. Near the end of that war, the story goes, General Patton discovers the Spear in a bunker under Nuremberg, realizes what it is, and at that very moment, Hitler commits suicide and the U.S. succeeds Germany as the new World Power...because it now holds the
Spear.

Well, not so fast... That Spear--seen above--has been
kept in Vienna, Austria, where Hitler obtained it back in
1938, since shortly after the War. Is Austria now a World Power? It used to be--before the First World War, but no longer. But, of course, some people insist that Austria's Hapsburg family secretly runs the world from behind their gilded walls in Vienna.

Maybe. But not very effectively. The fact is, this may
not be the true Spear. It could be one of several copies
made at various times throughout the centuries. The real Spear--if the legend of it always being in the possession of the current ruling World Power were true--ought to be in the United States, for the U.S. has emerged as the very greatest World Power in modern history. And what about Judea? The Spear was in Jerusalem for centuries and it does not appear to have made the Jewish people dominant in the ancient world. In fact, they were overrun by just about every one of their neighbors. Come to think of it, Nazi Germany was also conquered when it had the Spear. So was Austria in 1938 and again when the Spear was returned after the war. It may be that having this Spear is a way to get your nation conquered by its neighbors..."

To read the rest of speculated History, click: here

Many thanks Hawk and SS very enlightening, I am certain Hitler did his own homework as he loved the Occult.

He was involved in several other disciplines but where is the spear right now?

After all, it maybe important, it is probably hidden with the ark?

i dont think it is in the ark because i think just recently they thought they found the ark. uless your talking about the ark of the covenant. from which the measurements of the ark in the bible would not hold a spear.

there were rumors that Hitler had possession of the spear until the U.S. took it by force, ironically, they said he died the same day...

But I would have no clue if it were one bit accurate...

The lack of logic in the whole premise astounds me. Assuming Jesus Christ was really, really , really the son of god, and had some sort of supermagical powers which saturated his blood and could survive the millennia, what makes you think this super creature would allow this spear to be used for some ill-conceived power mongering notion?

Hitler was an asshole and he came to an asshole's end. The friggin Spear of Destiny was part of his madness. Let's just hope that the next asshole who decides to be a world conquerer also gets distracted by all these superstitions. If it's some guy in Iran, he'll probably go after ala's favorite concubine's hookah.

I like SS theory, every time some Megalomaniac has the spear they seem do rather badly.

It is always assumed the spear was evil but maybe it isn't.

Think about it, if yew were slowly slipping away wouldn't yew want some nice soldier to put yew out of your misery?

Come to think of it what happened to the soldier?

first alexander the great could not have had the spear as he lived almost 300 years before christ.

second, it prolly was actually a pilum, not a spear. a pilum was actually a javelin that would bend so that after they were thrown, they couldnt be thrown back easily.

if this object looked like what we think of as a spear, then id think that it was post christ.
if it looks like a long skinny shank, with a harpoon head...then who knows?
still..
last i checked the thousand year reich lasted only 12 years.

~W~

I believe there is book by that name written by trevor Ravenscroft. I read it a number of years ago. I remember there was some discussion of Hitler in it

Lord wolf < you are right alexander was not the leader, looked it up, My apoligies was thinking of Theodosius yet many claims have been set on this biblical relic, many claims of different spears seem to exist.

Yet which lance or spear is the real one if it does exist.

Did the soldier incinerate or have a lovely life?

It's not a hard question and one which is VERY important.

The spear of destiny is not only seen in one religion/culture, if you look through the myriad of spiritual beliefs you'll find similar 'legends'. So in saying that, do you believe it is just a matter of prophecy or legend? Or is legend based on some truth/proof?

ok, i was thinking of a pila, but the "lance" could have been a lancea (which is where the world lance comes from). it was shaped a bit more like what we think a spear looks like.
hard to imagine an artifact that killed a particular man surviving for 2000 years, especially when the first hundred years or so very few people thought jesus was anything special.
just my thoughts
~W~

Many thanks Master Aracon, in my experience many of these stories are so often based upon Chinese whispers and tales retold.
The lack of detail certain faiths are able to disseminate is all to telling. The fact Hitler chose to dabble in such things and his mundane body vanished is never the less interesting.
Putting ancient relics in secret storage speaks volumes.

I've also heard the rumor that Hitler possessed the Spear at one point. What I didn't know what that he supposedly died the day he lost it. It seems to me if this spear did exist and gave it's possessor power to defeat any army, then it surely failed, as we all know the Third Reich collapsed. I doubt the spear still exists and if it does, it's probably buried somewhere or under lock and key.

if hitler was the possessor tho, he certainly lacked the ability to defeat the red army.
his body vanished mostly because after eating a bullet, some of his henchmen carried his body outside, put him in a shell hole wrapped in a rubber sheet, poured ALOT of gasoline on him and set him on fire.

the soviets actually recovered the skeleton based on dental records from hitlers dentist.
the remains currently are in a box in the basement of the kremlin.

if hitler was the possessor tho, he certainly lacked the ability to defeat the red army.
his body vanished mostly because after eating a bullet, some of his henchmen carried his body outside, put him in a shell hole wrapped in a rubber sheet, poured ALOT of gasoline on him and set him on fire.

the soviets actually recovered the skeleton based on dental records from hitlers dentist.
the remains currently are in a box in the basement of the kremlin.
~W~

My question is were is the spear now ? Is it hidden in some gov't basement or by someone who is guarding it against "evil" ? The spear didn't kill Jesus but does have his blood on it making it a holy object ,with its own power. If only in the mind of the believers.

it is thought to have been destroyed in the linz museum by allied bombing.
~W~

A good question is, are the pictures of the original spear piece legitimate, when and where were they taken? This should give an answer to a couple of previous questions in this thread.

Do some research people, then draw your conclusions.

of course taken into account the vaste number of alledged relics that have all vanished from tours, when science minded believers sought to test said relics
to aid in authenticity.

If ever such an item existed.. then it would be highly likely that there would be X amount of forgeries as well.

Even the Shroud of Turin Devotees are beginning to insist that someone switched the " authentic one" with a forgery.

Yet guard records dispute their claim across the board.

The chain of handling is detailed, and exaustive.

Could you imagine the monetary gain of the individuals that advised The Riech Leaders in the matter if a relic?

How convincing they had to be?

my understanding is that it was himmler that really wanted the spear. he saw himself as a direct descendant of the teutonic knights. based on what ive read, hitler prolly just patted him on the head and said "ok hank, if it makes you feel better, go get it".
~W~

"Could you imagine the monetary gain of the individuals that advised The Riech Leaders in the matter if a relic?

How convincing they had to be?"

A gun to the head is everything when regarding "causes". Point a gun at an individuals head and they will do anything you ask. Thus was the way of the Reich.

W,

Somebody did there research.

Thsnks for the expansion.

SS I wonder how many people where involved in the acquistion of the item, and how those individuals were selected to enlist on the project.

One could imagine they had to have qualifications.. ologist of some sort.

in the 20s and early 30s there were large numbers of "experts" on just about every occult subject. himmler was one of those. since the former holy roman empire (who possessed the "spear") had put it in a museum in the austro-hungarian empire, which then became austria, which then was annexed into the reich, acquiring the artifact was a simple matter. they prolly wouldnt have done much fact finding about it as they already "knew" what they wanted to know. the national socialists werent real big on getting more facts about something that they felt they already knew everything of use about.

himmler felt himself to be an expert, ergo, he was. i dont now for certain that there werent other experts brought in, but it wouldnt fit his usual operating methods.
~W~

Trevor Ravenscroft
The "Spear of Destiny" is a name given to the Holy Lance in various stories that attribute mystical powers to it. Many of these have originated in recent times and several popular New Age and conspiracy theory books have popularized the legend of the spear.

Trevor Ravenscroft’s 1973 The Spear of Destiny[14] (as well as a later book The Mark of the Beast[15]) claims that Adolf Hitler started World War II in order to capture the spear, with which he was obsessed. At the end of the war the spear came into the hands of US General George Patton. According to legend, losing the spear would result in death, and that was fulfilled when Hitler committed suicide.

Ravenscroft repeatedly attempted to define the mysterious “powers” that the legend says the spear serves. He found it to be a hostile and evil spirit, which he sometimes referred to as the Antichrist, though that is open to interpretation. He never actually referred to the spear as spiritually controlled, but rather as intertwined with all of mankind's ambitions.

Here is something for you all to read as far as hitler and the spear is concerned and what a man said of him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Lance#Trevor_Ravenscroft

-That website points up has a lot of other things so maybe you can look more into it as well.

Oh and this came from wiki sorry I am just on my meds for my knee.

I have heard of the spear of destiny. I heard Hitler was after all these thing ie the Holy Grail etc. Hitler was a collecture

I believe the third will be the man ion the blue turban and he will end the 2000 year fued in the middle east and unite those counties and it will be the third world war . and when that happens it will take the eagle and the bear to stop them . they will have weapons to tear flesh from bone and bring you to a skeleton before you even die . and the us and russia will be able to stop it

Hawk 'bout said it all. though I find it interesting that like the Holy Grail.. man searches on. "Why?"

It cannot be for the historical value.. the supernatural?? well, "people don't believe such things!" Do they??

How some who profess faith
so easily render said faith
to relics, and nostalgia


What behaviour is manifest by those who dwell upon material affirmation,
would the belief any thing more then show and tell?

i fail to see how this religious icon is valuable to anyone in form. The only power it holds, be it real, is it's legend.
I don't see how a spear with blood on it gives anyone any more power than the spears that were made today ((which are probably a little more reliable by this time))

does anyone believe that it has supernatural powers?

Actually ~Dab~, there was a movie that was made.. no, not Constantine, but another that was regarding the DNA evidence left over by the nails from the Nazerene. By the end of this movie, there was a rebirth of sorts by the Catholic church of whom was pictured as corrupt in the movie since within the movie, the pope was a member of a dark fraternity. He wanted the DNA to be scientifically given to a project that would give birth to the antichrist.

It was entirely political, an attempt at world domination through religion.

Hitler wanted this as well, his philosophy was based on the beliefs he held within his Thule Society. Believing that he could create just as with the movie, an advanced race that was equal to the hyperborean Thule race. Blonde hair and blue eyed humanoids that lived a prolonged life, stood above 6' average and were stronger then the average human.

Thus, he strived to find this spear of destiny, ie Spear of Longinus or Holy Lance. Just for its DNA. Like the movie, he wanted that DNA to recreate the myth that was the Nazerene, as well as for its supposed mystical qualities of ruling nations. He, while in the Thule Society did try experiments regarding interbreeding from animals and such to try and create other types of creatures. He, in my perspective, actually thought he was a living god. His higher ups gave him too much power at one time. It may have corrupt his mind.

There really is no proof that Hitler actually found any of the mythical relics, ie holy grail; ark of the covenant; excaliber sword of Arthur, King of the Britains; holy lance, etc.

As well, there is no real proof that these items ever existed save for in books and from word of mouth regarding historians and their archeological findings. Which in turn, only found related geology that corresponded with the time periods as well as artifacts corresponding again with the time periods.

intersting, I could see how there would be a psycological edge that anyone possesses alledged relics would hold over members of established faiths.
Especially a person of notorious character.

Newer thread on this subject.

Closing for now.

Thank You