This idea came to me one day as i was sitting and thinking about everything that has been talked about here, and brought to my attention through some reading material and I can't help but wonder if perhaps all of these entities that people define as "demons, angelics, vampires" all-in-all are the very same thing.
What if the only thing that makes these beings, with all of their titles and status and abilities are all pretty much the same thing, the use of energies, sort of like how paranormal researchers say ghosties or intelligent spirits or entities drain things around them to use it to communicate etc.....
Perhaps the only true difference between any of them is their intentions?
So my question to all of you would be....
Have any of these thoughts crossed your minds? Is it possible that ghosts/demonic/angelics could just be the same thing? What would make them different to you?
Plenty of alleged encounters that occur when a person is in bed, are related to sleep paralysis.
Then factor in all the alleged cases that are products environmental anomalies (light etc).
Consider the credibility of the witness.
and what is left is a claim to study, and hopefully a location to observe.
I believe they could be. For people can believe in fallen angels. A demon, angel, and anything along those lines could be the same thing with a different perspective and a different agenda. Not to say that they were sent here for their purpose, but their intentions may have changed as they grew smarter to how the world worked.
They are electromagnetic in nature so when you put that into perspective,I would say yes,they are pretty much the same thing.Just take into account that there are two poles .
Also,on another note,Dab is correct in pointing out that many encounters are simply misinterpretations and misidentification of something.
well if your basing them off of electrical currents yes they are fairly similar but it seems as though they all operate on different wave lengths just as humans are all humans but we all look and act different. so yes angels, demon, vampires etc. all work in the same spectrum but they would not be the same being.
Those are some very interesting answers. I think most things can be explained with a little more technology and with the understanding of how the spiritual works, or perhaps spiritual planes that conflict with our physical planes or "medium" as others call it. Energy is within all things so it make sense that if we have evidence of the spiritual such as captured entities, stories about them, personal encounters (which doesn't neccessarily dictate a medical issue btw esp if others can verify what is being seen), evidence of reincarnation apparently (thanks to LW), then everything is just a matter of intention. Thanks above posters ;)
I think it depends on how one's view of is each of them.
Basically we all have different perceptions of their intentions are.
A fallen angel is not in high regard to most people
as the Archangels are.
They are all spiritual beings with a different energy...maybe
Whether positive or negative energy.
They seem to all have a different mission on this plane.
But they are all energy.
Romman,I should say that while absoloutely,these enties would be on different wavelengths(frequencies) because that is what our Universe is based on and based on everything I have learned,exploring the spiritual is science in its own right and when you put spiritual study hand in hand with physics and quauntum science,its pretty amazing... you get answers and evidence to support the spiritual .;)For some,like myself,it isnt a matter of science verses spiritual.It is one in the same.
Exactly things of a spiritual nature are hard to rationalize in a physical way, its all guessing games and first hand experiemce
Posted from vampire rave mobile so sorry for any spelling errors
And who's to say that Demons,angels and such arent aliens? And that ancient cultures could only describe them as gods and supernatural beings?
You make a good point. If we think about all of our ancients cultures, be it religious in nature, tribal etc., all have beginnings that start with an outside source as our Maker or Makers. There are many texts that point to this as fact. If we are to look at "the trinity" as a true story, we basically are seeing where we're being taught that there is a creative origin (which is considered "God" or the "Source" intelligent energies), the holy ghost is taught to us that the paranormal exists, and if one believes Jesus is a form of God...then it is the spiritual and physical coming together here on Earth.
I don't wanna toss this into a religious thread, that's not my purpose here. It's to use that as an example that humanity isn't foreign to the ideas that we are accepting that we have been encountering outside sources, sources of energy that is constantly being used for different purposes, and quite frankly our ancestry was limited in their words on how to describe things they have seen or encountered, but they have documented everything in writing or drawings or songs/stories passed down through the ages.
So it is my theory or belief that whatever we perceive we can only call it or name it something we're given word wise to interpret to others what something is, but yet we do not have the facts of what said entities are.
One might call a black mass figure, a demon, or a vampire because it uses a dark energy as other people have said.
What if they were just part of an alien race? Afterall , whenever we are taking about "fallen angels" and such, most would relate that to a race of advanced beings correct?
So logically speaking if we were to believe in our ancestries truths, it is saying to us that these beings, whether angelic, demonic, otherworldly and so on, have always been part of us and each being described is generally labeled or judged based apon an action.
and the dabster didst declare: Plenty of alleged encounters that occur when a person is in bed, are related to sleep paralysis.
does that include all that stuff with my exwife???
LOL
jokes aside, one of my contentions about believing in such things as vampires (the classic, archetype vamp) are the other things that people believe in commonly. angels, devils, demons, god, gods, spirits, ghosts, etc etc ....
im not running down those that believe in such things as i believe in some of them myself, but especially if you are a christian/moslem background, how do you say that a vampire (a creature of hell) is less real than a demon (a creature of hell)?
~W~
There is indeed an arbitrary factor to the matter LW, well stated. How people will believe prayer works, and totally write off as rubbish Vodoo when to me personally I see each as a pretense for third party invoking.
its one of my justifications (not that i need one) for being a pantheist. if one exists, why not all?
its also a reason i wont ridicule those that believe in somethings that i might not.
altho i do draw the line at godzilla....
(well...wait...there was my exwife....)
never mind
:c)
~W~
that is a really good point.
what if all the different gods really do exist, like say on different planes
Another good question.
If we were to look at the stories where these otherworldly beings came down to Earth and mated with human women, these "Gods" as they were described would have these "special babies" whom are considered Demi-Gods or as written in ancient text as "Giants or Men of Reknown".
Which that too connects with Asuras btw. Different cultures, same type descriptions, different names.
So if those stories , which are very similar to one another, are indeed true.....then you would already have these Gods or Demi-Gods roaming the Earth.
Other than a mixed-breed version of a human/alien, wouldn't these beings also be altered energy wise as well, or energetically enhanced?
you know what else is weird cultural tradition: a great flood story like 5 different cultures have one that i can think of
its a bit off thread, but the great flood tales only seeming point of commonality is that there was a flood. these stories only happen in areas that are flood prone (areas near great rivers). you dont have any stories of great floods from people that live in the sahara, or from the aborigines of australia, because they just dont have any knowledge of big floods.
that said
if im going to stay true to my earlier comment, i cant rule out space aliens either, but if someone from another world came here, the odds of them looking similar to us would seem very out there.
going back to the spiritual side (yeah...who is to say what is "out there lol") if a spiritual entity (a god, demon, etc) could mate with a human, then who is to say what the offspring might or might not be? could even be a vampire. i think the living dead scenario is far fetched, but a spiritual entity that my take human energy/blood/semen (thinking of the succubus there).
its a thought at least.
~W~
Actually,there is one story that the Aboriginies have about a flood.Its called "the Flood"
It is the story of Pangea and how the water divided up all the tribes and the land etc...
no I have no problem with the idea of space aliens, perhaps one day we to will fly to distant planets and find some civilization more primitive than ourselves, and then we too will be worshiped as gods.
Ijust don't want the alien/god scenario turning out like it did in 10000BC, because that was really stupid.
To LordWulf - actually central Australia does flood every so often, the last big one was in March this year. It was billed as a "once in a lifetime event". The desert lakes also fill from floodwaters every couple of decades. It's rare, but it happens. So flooding would have been known and stories would have been passed around about it, if only for the hunting opportunities afterwards.
Perhaps the only true difference between any of them is their intentions?
I think it's more likely that the only true difference might be the individual's interpretation of their intentions and their openness to the experience.
i stand corrected on flooding in oz, but if it does flood, and there is a flood myth (called "the flood"...lol thanks oceanne), then it actually shows my point.
~W~
Well i think we're getting a bit off topic with this adding "the flood" stuff, when it's about energy and the common ground we find in all spiritual beings and why or why not can all of these beings we percieve to simply be the same logically speaking, all connected to the universe in some form, but yet we are seeing them and defining them all as something different....
ok why is it that all the gods are either look like men and women or something involving animals?
I don't know if many here can see or agree with me about that but my logical explanation about why certain "gods and goddesses" had animals to represent them, was simply because they were animals that were familiar with them around in that area at the time. Perhaps they were animal totems of the Gods. Perhaps the animals represented a certain "rank" of what they were here for. Birds seem to represent "royalty"in most cultures, or perhaps air flight relation? Ground animals for Gods that reigned over those that worked for them etc? Just guesses here. Not facts, but those thoughts do and have crossed my mind a few times.
Even still these Gods of old, always seemed to take on human-like forms or animal relations, which could either be for us to seperate or individualize each God, or the animal itself, is tied to them spiritually.
it could be that they were to show ties between god and the natural world
It could be that they identified with the animals. The thing is I think man gets a certain perception and over time as these ideas are passed down they aren't the same as they were in the beginning. They thought man and Neanderthal were a separate thing but now with DNA testing they are finding that in human DNA. We just don't know everything. What some thought of as a demon was something else in Greece, very like a muse, inspirational. As to whether they could be the same thing, I have to go with the frequency thing and / or spectrum of light. At certain levels we are unable to perceive certain things so we really don't know what might be living there. It may be the rare person who can perceive these things or some may be able to lower their frequencies to be seen. They often describe the coldness around the area of manifestation. Most believe the energy is being drawn. They have proven there are other dimensions and perhaps there are those with the knowledge to pass through to other realities. I personally think some of the names are the same being but described differently by the biases of the culture. Some have been one thing and by the religious views been turned into something they were not originally due to trying to discredit whomever it may be. It's a very complex issue I think but a good topic.
while i certainly could be wrong, i think that the gods predate humanity, and are energy based beings, but we stamp things that are beyond our understanding with a familiar image. that image may be that of a man or women, a cow or a crocodile.
we take these beings and assign them a job...this god is in charge of the sun, or the moon, or childbirth, as they must have some purpose.
just my two cents...your milage may vary
~W~
First off the myths and origins though mostly the same have some things that separate them. To call them all the same would be a large overstatement, in truth vamps are neither angle or demon for they are both. Real simple look at who the "parents are in the mythology, Lilith who is seen as a demon by many. Then there Lucifer who was angel at one time then according to Christan legends latter became the"devil" after being cast out of heaven.
Gaulder, you are so right on the money. And am I the only one who has a problem with the "angels came down and mated with the women" phrase?
Angels came down. Wrong. Maybe they came sideways.
Mated with women. Wrong. Presupposes angels all male, and that the women had no say in the matter.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. A paternalistic human interpretation of creation with all the best parts going to the men.
On a calmer note, this is from Paulo Coelho:
A boy was walking to buy bread when the mayor of the city crossed the street.
‘The reason he is so powerful, is because, he’s made pact with the devil,’ – a very devout woman in the street told the boy, and he was intrigued.
While traveling to another town, the boy saw a beautiful corn field. He asked who was he owner as soon as he arrived at his destination
‘All this land belongs to the same man. I’d say the Devil had a hand in that.’ – answered one of the villagers.
Later the same day, a beautiful woman walked past the boy. A priest also saw her and said aloud:
‘That woman was sent by Satan!’
From then on, the boy decide to seek the Devil out. One day he managed to see him face to face.
‘They say you can make people powerful, rich, and beautiful.’
‘To be totally honest, this is not true’ replied the Devil. ‘You have just been listening to the views of those who are trying to promote me.’
Gaulder, I do agree with you about the legends of most "dark figures" whether Gods or not, probably started off being innocent or existed here, taking on roles in life, in our history, that which others have twisted them out to be something they originally were not. I can at least see how during cultural changes, country to country, or what was maybe acceptable in one person's era as innocent and natural, turned into a big fat "no-no" in another time frame when rules and law was being put into place.
Still even so, most of these legends started off with some sort of celestial energy or being, that existed outside of our world and landed here on Earth. With that being said, of all places within the universe, one has to question, what makes our world the home of such figures?
Ever stop to think that maybe those "Gods" might just be us ? Our own entities)once we go through our lives and reincarnations here?
Just a thought..
We are the gods, flawed as we are and with all our faith loopholes and shite we can't explain, minus the reincarnation stuff which is another feeble dream of life extension. We are alone. We only have now, and alas, only each other.
I don't think I can agree with that statement personally. With all the evidence we have in ancient cultures around the globe, I don't believe everybody held the "God/Goddess" energies as say , those that were genetically "altered" by an outside source. Humanity has been here for a very long time, but from prior ancient records, something came to change that through human/divine children. So no i can't say I agree to that. If you think about it, people have different abilities and various energy off-puttings and something about that alone makes us different from another human being.
Right,just as the Gods are all different.
For those who believe in reincarnation,it is possible that thru reincarnationon one progresses to that state.
Its just another point of view.Not one I find myself subscribing to,but I have thought about the scenario.
The gods/goddesses stories depict divine beings who are flawed. They fuck up big time. Who wants a god like that?
The stories aren't real peeps, they're myths trying to explain the universe devised by humans and based on the only characters available - humans.
Just cause the story exists doesn't make it real. It's hype, and crude hype at that.
I do not think of myself as a god, anyone who does is up there own **** However I do tend to be in flood places if I am around and am in a really in a bad mood.
Evidence...Brisbane and Melbourne.Witnesses...
Are here on the Rave.
I will let them sign on if they choose to do so.
Fallen...yes, that is true...God? Nah...No Way.
Thats just Humans grasping at straws when things get weird...more like EMF I feel it coming like a generator.
Bloodmother, I don't get where you believe the "Gods" fucked up. For one, the legends around the entire frickin Globe ok....Not just ONE area, we're talking different structures, different cultures, different names but SAME type Gods if you will, as THEY called them, were beings that were more advanced that taught humanity how to do things. There are structures even TODAY that we cannot match up to but yet, our ancestry had the knowledge and capabilities to do the great things that they have. If anything, humanity in THAT time, were HONORING our past teachers, so I really do not understand where you get this "attitude" about our previous loyalties to those that were seen as guides. I will not be so disrepectful.
I am aware of all the skeptics and everyone's different viewpoints but basically most of those skeptics and negatives are based around those who have no proof of things , whereas someone else may. The only way someone like that will ever get any peace about "why people believe that way" will only be through experiences that others have went through and ARE going through. End of story.
I would also like to say that this thread isn't about what people think about "Gods". Let's try to stick with the subject of the question first asked. Thank you.
Current research indicates humanity originated in Africa, and then spread out. It's conceivable that all those stories started there. The stories were spoken. New languages developed, and like the party game, the gist stayed the same, but variances developed.
So, in my view just because there are semblances of the same deities and stories worldwide does not make them real or true. It just harkens back to our - humanities - beginnings.
It also says a lot about our need to believe in something greater than, well, us.
You asked for contributions on mythical creatures being the same or different, so reading back it appears to me that people have posted addressing that question.
A dichotomy evolves based on firmly held beliefs: If you believe in a "gods" involvement then everything you read, see or think will go to support that belief. The belief demands it.
If you look at anthropological, archeological, and the physics involved in universes that are being created now, you may go in a different direction. Not all the questions have been answered, but a study of myths combined with the scientific data seems to indicate that the gods came out of us, not us out of them.
Actually if anyone has been keeping up with say, the history channel or discovery channel, there is this show called Ancient Aliens. All which makes some pretty valid points about our ancient ancestors and to say that WE are dependant apon these Gods or something greater than ourselves, well that's not the case for everyone. I believe those stories that were passed down, were for a reason, and we have evidence of these things through language, through building structures, and things that were designed, and crafted and made with materials that seems more or less, too advanced for humanity in those times.
The stories of Gods and their children all say they came from the stars, from the heavens and it is kind of hard to deny that factor, since some of those stories were not neccessarily passed down from the same sources, but from new visitations, different time periods which too, is evident from findings.
I see where some people have addressed the subject with great answers so far, but some have been pretty off topic and would like to keep steering on the same path with these discussions.
It is simply asking that for those that talk about vampires, demons, angelics and the like, would not simply be the same type of energies that is harnessed from the same source or sources, but used differently based on actions that of which said entities make use of them?
Typically I am seeing that there is really not much difference other than the perceptions of which people have labeled them according to either "judged by looks" or "judged by feeling" or "judged by action" scenerios.
Asura, when I referred to gods fucking up, I was specifically thinking of Greek and Roman deities who lied, cheated, murdered, displayed cowardice, etc. I can't cite similar frailties in other cultures w/o hitting my Joseph Campbell books, but reading in-depth you'll find that they're not infallible. They represent something, there's heavy symbolism - for humans. Even the old testament god was a mysogynistic bloodthirsty prick, imo, but once again he reflected the middle-eastern culture from which he sprang.
Gotta point out to you that the History Channel and the Discovery Channel are commercial enterprises, and despite their noble names, some of what they present is speculative, not factual. I even found Bigfoot "research" on the History online site which was the same crap that's been touted for decades.
It's kinda like those "news" shows who don't really report the news, only give their opinions disguised as facts. Hard to tell the difference sometimes, and why Reading books from a Variety of sources is always a good idea.
Bloodmother..I see right ehre you are coming from and I also agree.With that said,and in light of other posts and points..Asura's included,it just might stand to reason that yes,Gods,angels devils etc...are of the same energes..BUT remeber that even if they are the same,they still vibrate on different levels.Now whether it is due to their actions,I really dont know but it is possible and something to look into.i do want to go get something and bring it over for you to see...I'll be beck...
actually i have thoughts simlar to those of yours tho i believe they are all basicly the same but all have diferences also. like in the spirit world, you have human spritis aka ghosts animal spririts and spirits that were never human and these can include anything celestial such as angels or any demom really.
Demons, angels and humans all came out of the same cosmic puddle.
Thank you for clarifying more about that BM to your prior post. I understand that most of what is air'ed on TV is speculative, but what they bring onto the table does make one question the facts that they DO have.
Even though our roots may have come from Africa somewhere....the acceptance of something greater than ourselves, something of the divine has been carried down through the ages, displayed practically everywhere and has never ceased being taught.
A time when science and religion fought one another, is now using their technologies to try and either debunk or prove "the spiritual", that whatever people are feeling and seeing, isn't just something that can be explained away so easily.
It's actually a great thing, a great improvement in my opinion, to see the spiritual and the skeptic individuals actually working together to try and FIND answers people are looking for, versus those that tell people that they are crazy and come off more negative about such issues.
Well if you think about it....
Humans are all the same- although we have different skin colors, different features, different languages, different forms of DNA that cause for different looks. We all need food, water, and air to survive.
Why not think of Demons, Angels, Vampires, etc as the same?
There are slight differences such as behaviors, abilities, their cravings, but they all have the basic essential needs as well.
They need to "feed" in a sense.
The human brain is only partially used, what if instead of being a different "race or creature" isn't really what they are?
If you think about it, they could very well just be humans who have tapped into the unused parts of their brain and have learned to form and use it to their extend opposed to being just "like every other human".
I am rambling, but you get the idea.