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I picked up a book at a yardsale entitled, "Painted Black: From Drug Killings to Heavy Metal : The Alarming True Story of How Satanism Is Terrorizing Our Communities" by Carl A. Raschke.

I often find it bothersome when an author is of a certain religious background and writing on a topic of a religion they are totally against.
Carl, in the beginning, claims to be Presbyterian I believe and goes on to state that modern day murders and drugs are the result of Satanists and blames Anton Lavey and Aleister Crowley, and music, among others that go back hundreds of years.

I find it funny how all of the statements below are to be associated with Satanism but not once does he ever mention any of the things that happened in the bible.

My questions are:

What do you think of a few of his statements that I have posted below?

1) "Masonry was a gentleman's club for religious doubters, or even libertines."

2) " The problem of why the siege of American culture flared in the first place follows from the question of why the American counterculture's habit of toying with hallucinogens in the 1960's ballooned into the vast and terrifying, "drug crisis" of the 1980's. It also comports with the question of why the culture of postwar folk music evolved into the rock industry which eventually spawned the cacaphonous, and frequently sinister, "metal" bands of recent years."

3) "The central strand winding through the literature of the occult underworld is the passionate judgement that Christian civilization , which has persisted over a thousand years, is corrupt and hypocritical and that a new "natural" regime of instinctual spontaneity and untrammeled free will must burst the fetters of time. Strikingly, such an attitude, which may be described as "neobarbarism, runs all the way down the line from the French radicals of the 1700's, many of whom practiced a discrete and finely cultivated form of satanism, to LaVey himself. It also constitutes the major message of contemporary "punks" and skinheads. "

4) "In form, if not substance, the satanism of the nineteenth century was a revival of certain heresies of the High Middle Ages, particularly what was known as Catharism in Italy and Albigensianism in France."

5) "The old Persian religion was dualistic, it held that the universe was a battleground for the perpetual struggle between the principles of darkness and light."

6) "The French occultist Alphonse-Louis Constant (a.k.a. Eliphas Levi), who influenced 20th century satanism considerably, bought almost completely into the thesis that the Knight Templars were diabolists. And his engraving of the Templar idol Baphomet has become a classical article of iconography for today's black magicians, a sort of satanist Mona Lisa."

7) "By the close of the nineteenth century, the myth of the Templars as :dark lords" of the supernatural had gained widespread currency among those who sought to perfect the black arts themselves. The effective "satanizing" of the Templars quite separately from their Cathar legacy can be consigned to the modern era's pontiff of all occult showmen and hucksters, Aleister Crowley."

8) "...it is probably fair to say that no true-life personality, even Anton LaVey, has more of a shadow of influence over contemporary satanism than Crowley."

9) "The Mayans were not just storm-troopers. In Occult lore they were the magical masters of the universe because they supposedly understood the hidden meanings of the motions of the stars. They also performed dread, horrible, but carefully orchestrated and "scientific" sacrifices of live human beings to the forces of the underworld, according to archaeological evidence."

10) "Nobody knows exactly what the Mayans were up to. Until the last 10 year archaeologists have assumed that the terrible bloody oblations done dutifully at Mexico City by Indian priests to their sun god before the eyes of the Spanish conquerors were the sick invention of the Aztecs."

Raschke is a typical christian armed with half truths and fear tactics which work well for his "sheep" and do nothing to provide facts. Raschke would start burning witches and satanist if he could get away with it because his thoughts fall in line with murders of past times.

Wow. An excellent thread with many topic within. Satanism is a religion, which is always creating a conflict with organized religion. There is anything wrong by worshiping Satan as a God, because, He is a God. What many religions doesn't understand, is that Satan, was at the beginning of creation until the expulsion from "heaven" by another God due to jealousy. Many of the others religions follow doctrines created after the evolution of Christianity. Satanism is becoming a religion of the Masses and the reason is because many humans are opening the eyes to the truth behind what they were told.

I agree. The thing that got me was going as far back as the Mayans and calling them satanists. The term satanist didn't exist then. Wasn't even thought of.

It disturbs me that the religious practices of our ancestors are deemed satanic and horrific by Christianity, yet they have only to look in their holy book to see the horrific practices that the old testament talked of.

Remember, the crusaders were the one that start the whole "satanism" when they said that the pagans were worshiping a god with horn. Before the hunt, the pagans of the pass use to perform ceremonies in honor of the god of the hunt, just for good luck. Well, those nice "Christians" decided to eliminate any pagan that did not convert into the "new" religion.

Such ignorant authors have no idea how their biased, and bigoted wares fuel perpetuation of stereo typical behavior in rebellious apostates.

I have to look for a few links..

http://holysmoke.org/report/index.htm

Another thing that pisses me off.

Taken from the link that dabbler put up earlier

"Hypothesis: Dabbling in heavy metal music, fantasy role playing games and/or the occult lead to serious Involvement in occult activity and sometimes with occult crime. Proponents feel that dabbling in heavy metal, role playing games and/or the occult can be contagious, leading to more serious, perhaps criminal and life-threatening involvement. While participation doesn't cause such behavior, it strongly contributes to anti-social and even criminal activity."

Do they not understand that the test subjects they are looking at to base this hypothesis on were already fucked up in the head to begin with?

There is always an underlying factor to a persons odd behavior and actions.

I have never heard of a regular person going down, buying a heavy metal cd, and then suddenly thinking, "oh my, I think I'm going to go buy myself a book on witchcraft", and then buying the book and thinking, "hmm... maybe I'll go to Larry's tonight and play Dungeons and Dragons." and he goes to Larry's and then becomes the next hannibal. I mean come on!

Ok dabbler, give me another link.

It does not help matters when delinquents acting in Peer fueled packs are interviewed after committing heinous Impulsive crimes, and want something to point a finger at, rather then manning up to their actions..

What really registers to me is that True Satanism is about Manning up, and Owning Ones actions, or inaction.

But all that punks want is sensational illusions of power, and the misrepresentation (as demonstrated in the Main Post) actually encourage such behavior.

I have heard it referred to as Santa-ism.

I'll add that Satanist, are as plagued by those who perpetuate graphic behavior in the name of Satanism, as Christians, and Muslims are by fanatic. I personally have nothing against moderate believers in established, or fringe beliefs, but I will not be tolerant (and neither should the majority of believers) of actions, and instigation's of factions that creep into their ranks, and validate their Bigotry, and Malice.

I agree.

Another point: Every race and religion have their own bad people. But I notice it is the Christians that write books and televise their propaganda about non-believers and "satanists" being evil. How many times have you seen a satanist televise anything about a Christian? Or write a book about Christianity in a negative manner?

When Anton LaVey wrote the Satanic Bible, he did a little picking but nothing like the attacks Christianity has made on other religions. It seems Christianity has become a bully religion. And they seem to be getting away with this bullying.

Lavay wrote on the character of religious people.

I personally know more satanist that do not subscribe to a corpeal entity. Meaning Satan is a fairy tale, produced by myth makers. Weak people need
deities to userp, most priest, pastors want an effort free meal ticket.

It boils down to - any crackpot can write a book full of false information. Some of us call it fiction - he tries to pass it off as fact. People blinded by their shared dogma will swallow it up like a bag of candy on halloween.

The rest of humanity will see it for what it is. Nonsense. After all, there has to be a basis for Satinism, right? And that basis is religion and belief the god exists. One cannot exist without the other.

Atheists that don't believe in god wouldn't believe in satan either - one can't exist without the other.

So like valleys and mountains, mainstream christian religion and satanism are simply opposite sides of the same coin.

Yes.. I'm rambling.

Interesting tidbit, is there ARE satanists that are also Atheists. The majority of Satanists worship not Satan, but revere themselves as deities of their own world. And the Atheistic Satanists (many of which follow Anton Szandor LaVey, whose teachings are based on self-indulgence and "eye for an eye" morality) simply believe that Satan is symbolic of man's inherent nature - both the good and bad. They tend to be kind to their friends, and merciless to those that insult or hurt them.

Regardless, though, it seems that this author is writing about things he has done no real research on, and trying to pass it off as fact. Reminds me of an anti-marijuana video I once saw called Reefer Madness...

Just claiming that there are things (metal music being one of them in this case) that can apparently make a person do things they wouldn't normally do. As previously stated, if someone is listening to metal while they kill someone else, that thought/desire/rage was already brewing - it wasn't magically put there by Marilyn Manson, Ozzy Osbourne, Rob Zombie, Hatebreed, or any other musician, and to think it could have been is just ludicrous.

alls i can say is some people should not write books and that being the case of the author at hand

DemonicxKitten
Elemental (77)
Posts: 796

On Satanism
Posted: 08:59:21 - Oct 18 2010
Times viewed: 4
ADMIN: | EDIT |

wow this is interesting

Delete


DemonicxKitten - this post adds nothing to the conversation or the topic. Please refrain from making such posts in the future. Thank you.

While anyone can write a book and get it published, it is up to the reader of the book to choose to believe in whats written. Like everything else in life, most consider what they know to be fact until they themselves begin to question what they know.

Yet, when the readers have an agenda, it only adds fuel to the fire. Publishers should be held accountable for the trash they sell. I will refrain from purchasing books from Harpercollins Country in the future.

A few more excerpts from the book:

" Ernest Weil, sixty-five, a retired Denver aerospace engineer, was found in a car trunk near a Gallup, New Mexico, watering hole. "Satanic Grafiti, for lack of a better term," noted Gallup assistant district attorney Anthony Porter, "was written on the rocks around the watering hole, and we believe some of the graffiti appears to have been made from the victims blood." Nearby rocks bore the bloddy lettering S.O.D., which according to Porter stood for "Sisters of the Devil," and the word Metallica. Porter said he believed the motive for the killing was robbery, not satanism. Two young Navajos were taken into custody as suspects in the killing."

Okay apparently the assistant district attorney didn't listen to metal. Because I used to listen to S.O.D which stands for Stormtroopers of Death.. NOT sisters of the devil. Shit. It just goes to show you that people that are totally misinformed don't know shit. If he would have known who metallica was, then he sure would have known who SOD was because they were both popular and thrashing about in the mid 80's.

And then towards the end he says that he believes the motive was robbery, not satanism. Then why make the assumptions that SOD means sisters of the devil? I just don't get some people.

Another excerpt:

"Smart and popular Michelle Kimball, fifteen, of Bristol, Vermont, stunned classmates by committing suicide with a gunshot would to the forehead. Investigators surmised that the death had been due to her belief in satanism. Michelle had made frequent mention of her adoration of Satan in her diaries. "The devil is the person to worship," she had reportedly confided to friends. Kimball also cited lyrics from such "satanic metal" groups as Judas Priest and Black Sabbath. The local newspaper observed that "satanism...may appear to parents and friends as just one more manifestation of the rebellious teen years."

Judas Priest and Black Sabbath? Never ever growing up did I ever think of these two bands as satanic metal. Come on! They are classic rock now! lol


Another excerpt:

"On Boston's South Shore, police considered filing charges against a pack of alleged "devil worshipers" after raiding their"church," an abandoned munitions bunker deep in the woods of Wompatuck State Park. During the raid the cops confiscated an animal skull, a silver chalice, swords, machetes, and knives. During World War II, the bunker housed guns and ammunition. At the site, police found copious occult symbolism, including pentagrams and a five-sided, special altar of sacrifice. many of the cult members had dressed themselves in long, black cloaks. Also in the bunker was found a life-size, enameled crucifix with barbed wire parodying the crown of thorns worn by Christ during his passion."

A five-sided special altar of sacrifice? You have got to be kidding me. Where is the proof? And notice how they say they only "considered" filing charges? Apparently it wasn't that bad because they didn't, right?

If people took the actions of the AOG (army of god)Eric Randolph to represent Christians there would be a confrontation every time a church wanted to open.

Yet objectionable atheist realize that it is not fair to lump
Fundamentalist factions in with a core group.

Same with Fred Phelps.

I just moved from Topeka KS where the phelps family live and have their church. I personally cant stand the Phelps family.

I would like to see this author write a book, on the likes of AOG, and Phelps.

At least the Islamic Community is differentiating themselves from The Nation Of Islam

I agree with this post.

As Dr Evil says, as the voice of 60s revisionism, "Freedom failed."

wow..where to start?

first im a mason...and that comment before strikes me as ...interesting...perhaps weird. lol


ive known several flavors of satanists...from those that say curse you when you sneeze (no, im not kidding), to those that are essentially atheists, that use the figure of satan as a role model...the rebel.

and yes..some christians have serious issues...im still more worried about fundamentalist belief systems that seem to produce alot of killers rather than stupid rhetoric.
~W~

Yeah the mason thing was a bit out there to me. But I guess back in the 60's and 70's they didn't have the knowledge about things that we do now, so they made a lot of irrational and uneducated statements.

According to what I have read on Judaism sites is that Satan was an angel that had the role of adversary. He never went out of favor with God at all. It is inferred to be a title rather than a name. Not sure of the true name of that particular angel. Others had that title when they did what could be considered a negative act. This is something that is misunderstood in Christianity from what I can find out and besides, not all Satanists are Theist anyway. There is a large variety and types of them. There are many factions who still dwell on old wive's tales of the past and scare tactics of religious groups to get their converts.

Some of the statements really look out there but there has been a bias concerning Masons for hundreds of years. Catholics are not allowed to belong or they get kicked out of the church if found out. My daughter wanted to get into the ladies part since our family has had various relatives as members both male and female. She rethought it when she found this out. If you don't believe me look it up, lol.

The part on Zoroastrianism looks to be correct. It is supposedly where the duality came into Judeo/Christianity from the Persians but for the most part it seems to be a little loony but I would have to get a copy of the book and follow up on where he obtained his information.

It sounds like this author had an agenda. I'm basing this off of what I've read here...Most religions that are widely recognized and acknowledged as legitimate generally want two things: money and power. It doesn't matter if your belong to a Satanist group or a Christian group. When leaders of one religion write negatively about an opposing religion, they are seeking to diminish it's credibility. Like mudslinging in an election, they want the power, the money and the ability to say, "Look, I was right!"

If you dignify a guy like him with a response, someone who probably spent months or years crunching information he accumulated and then twisted and spun, he wins. I'm willing to bet not many of his followers are hanging out on VR forums, and if they are, it's NOT to validate your opinions of the said author or to expand their minds and learn about different cultures and lifestyles.

thing is that most christians ive known (even the cool ones) hear the word satanist, and they experience an emotional reaction similar to what most moslems feel when someone says jew.

~W~

That is why the xtians preach Satan as a corporeal entity, an entity that is attacking them..

than when a member turns apostate they adopt that in rebellion, to intimidate those who they feel oppressed them, and lets not forget the Testimonies that xtians share, share in such a way as to impress others of how sinful they were before being saved, it is all about key buzz words.

"He's like those Tea Party conservative, who would make us as bland and vanilla as he is. He's just another Sarah Palin, in male disguise." Interesting to mixed Politics with satanism. I am a Tea party Activist, but, I follow the rule and regulation of VR. So, attained from attacking a political party and stay in the subject of the thread. Satanism has been part of the Human race from the beginning, but now, is becoming more popular. Reason, the propaganda giving by the Organized churches about may hem, killing, raping and torturing. All in the name of Lucifer. Those atrocities never happen, including during a Black mass, to invoke Beelzebub.

We cannot judge his intelligence of a religion by the book... he may be against it, but know much more about the religion than most people who claim to be followers. There are many people who know a religion thoroughly and because of that wisdom and knowledge are turned AWAY from the religion all together. Sometimes knowing too much can persuade someone from following into trends that the ignorant choose to follow. I will be the first to admit that many Christians DO indeed go against their own words of wisdom and contradict the Bible by their actions.... but we have to be educated enough to realize that because he is writing from a Christian perspective [as the book is OBVIOUSLY for Christians], that their ideas and way of viewing the world of others will be different from those who live outside of the "Christianity Bubble".

I don't agree with the book, but I don't doubt his knowledge of the religion itself either, he simply sees it from another light.

i feel that sometimes a book is only worth as much as the paper it is written on and at other times i believe a book to be worth the knowledge that it shares,but for this book i think perhaps it is either outdated or the author was misguided in their lack of research.

Sounds like the usual fear mongering crap from fundies trying to make a buck off of scared parents. Sad part is that the parents don't know better so they listen to it.

I've spent 15 years trying to point out the innacuracies of such "experts". Most of them are devout Christians who believe that anything that is not of their faith is Satanism. Let's face it, most of us know that is not accurate. Paganism had many negative deities (Set, Kali-Ma, ect) but they were more along the lines of tricksters and not all out bad guys.

Another bit to add to this is that in just about every case involving "occult ties", the people who committed said crimes, almost 99% of the time had pre existing mental illnesses. Those illnesses were either left untreated or unrecognized (usually by the parents who don't know what to do).

I'll also take a lucky guess this book was written before the Lanning Report, which debunked a lot of the BS put out there by so called "Occult Experts"

Still, whenever some loony goes off and listens to (insert band of choice here) and reads (insert "occult" book of choice here), then decides to commit a crime, it's easier for the parents and the media to blame the wierdos than it is for them to take a long hard look in the mirror.

Best quote ever was from a psychiatrist named Dr. Paul Rilley "Music isn't Satanic, Parents are." His point was that Parents have 10 times more influence over their kids than music, movies, games, ect.

Sorry to get off on a rant there...

Damn Well Stated!

The Satanic Panic crossed from Religious into secular Psycho-therapist fueled .. or refueled what the fundies had on simmer. Thankfully the whole debacle was unraveled, and exposed, the so called Psycho-therapist were licensed revoked practitioners who hand picked parents with suggestible children.. Now that gives me the Creeps.. someone outa' write a book about those Parents, and "professionals"!

I do believe there has been something written on the subject, other than the Lanning report.

Blasphemous Rumors: Is Satanic Ritual Abuse Fact or Fantasy? an Investigation by Andrew Boyd (i believe it is out of print)

Deamons of the Modern World by McGrath

Satan's Silence: Ritual Abuse and the Making of a Modern American Witch Hunt by Debbie Nathan


These are just a handfull. Unfortunately more are out of print. These are what I managed to find during a quick amazon search

What boggles me is that the self titled Regression Psycho-Therapist are still getting gigs, and holding practice.

There are a lot of pros and cons on this topic that could go off in many directions. Some of it is perspective. It matters what the writer's beliefs are and from that frame of reference will build a case for his viewpoints. It can be done quite well.

You know Fundamentalist Chrisitianity is quite modern. It has only been around since the late 19th Century. It is more of a movement than a specific organization. It comprises churches by many names. They "oppose Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture and have become associated with reaction against social and political liberalism and rejection of the theory of evolution." (various sites)

Some also believe that the drawing of Eliphas Levi is something he came up with and that what the Templars had was probably an Oracular Head which is what the oracles of the times used and they probably took this practice with them. It wasn't exactly considered Satanic but more Pagan oriented. The spirit being spoke through these heads and gave counsel. I read about this a long time ago so I don't remember the details. I cannot find a link online.

Therefore to draw conclusions, you go to the sources you know. He probably had a list of scholars writings that he could use for points he wished to make but nothing is infallible. He wanted to prove his theories it would seem and it isn't so hard to do because there are so many theories pro and con you can prove almost anything even if it is someone's loony ravings. People have built ideologies on beings that never existed except in superstition and misundertanding of things that were written. Since Christianity took on the dualistic ideas one cannot expect them not to believe there is an opposite side that is evil and put a name to it, whether accurate or not.

Satanism - In order to think that satan exists, you must first believe in the christian god to a point, because that's where the whole satan story came from. Religion, in general, is a bunch of collective stories, fables, and legends that have been passed down over the centuries - and as with anything else, every time a story is retold it takes on a new identity according to the last person who told it. Personally, I do not believe in satanism because I do not believe in christianity. That is not to say that satanists are wrong in their belief system, it is just another prime example of the christian church twisting words and stories around to compliment its own twisted foundational half-truths. Yes, people did worship the horned god (the lord of the hunt, Cernunnos, etc) which predated the christian god. Christianity was also nice enough to steal much of its traditions from Paganism, such as holidays and basic customs. So, its all relative - each person has their own truths that they cling to for their own reasons, which don't necessarily have to make sense to others - If it makes sense to them, all the power to them.

Let me first say that I am Christian of faith. Now let me say that Satanism is a truly misunderstood religion. I am not a Satanist nor would I ever become one, but I do know true Satanists do not kill and eat our children in the night or slaughter innocents for fun. They are people just like me who worship Satan vs. Christ and it is there right to do so without judgment from the rest of us. There is a difference between Satanism and Occultism and I think maybe people need to look more in depth to specifics before writing books or making judgments against other people.

Absolutely - I agree with your statement that people need to read more in depth into the discussion before making judgments. I judge people by what comes out of their mouth and how well what comes out of their mouth is accentuated by appropriate action.

It is a fact that satanism is a spin-off of christianity (some see it as the opposite). As my profile page suggests, I am an eclectic free-thinking pagan who believes that most of the worlds' religions basically teach the same thing (Be good to others and treat them according to their deeds), while some border on craziness (i.e. scientology is just too out there for my taste). I was raised christian, even went to a catholic grammar school. I was never baptized, because I was born protestant in Scotland. I continued to attend a christian church until I reached the age of reason and started conducting my own investigation into the truths of the world's religions. As long as their has been a god to worship, in one form or another, people have died in deity's name. I am not slamming others for practicing the christian faith - if it makes sense to you then have at it. However, my opinion of christianity (I am entitled to it, since my many years of research have confirmed its truth to me) I have a problem with a god who claims to love the world so much, yet does nothing as its inhabitants die of disease, famine and squalor. When good things happen, its his will. When bad things happen, he works in mysterious ways. Religion is control, no matter how you dice it - A way to control the masses. Satanism, in its most fundamental form, is still based on satan, otherwise known as lucifer (one of the christian god's angels who was cast down from heaven because he allegedly challenged god's rule). Because it has ties to christianity, it cannot exist in my mind because I do not believe in either.

So, like I said. If it makes sense to you, awesome. Everyone should be entitled to their truth - but they should also be open minded enough to accept the opinions of others when those opinions are based in fact. Very little to nothing in the realm of religion is based in fact - in other words, cannot be proven. This is why creationism is such a hard pill to swallow - science has the methods to prove that evolution does happen. This is the perfect segue for me to make my final argument on religion - whether it is satanism, christianity, islam, or whatever. The bottom line is that if science and religion were to work together, they could accomplish far more than either could accomplish alone (This will never happen, for obvious reasons).

What you have to remember when you read something like this author's work is that it's almost like watching Nancy Grace on Fox.

As has been pointed out, Carl A. Raschke used half-truths and in some cases probably outright fabrications to sell a book. It's yellow press at it's best.

You also have to remember that most of his thinking is based on the Christian religious attitude of the 1960's and 70's, and sound very much like the drivel spouted in the seminaries. Trevecca Nazarene University was the worst of these, and he does have an evangelistic bent.

You also need to keep in mind that Satanism as a whole has changed completely over the years. I met Anton Lavey in Charlotte, NC in 1980 and attended one of his lectures. He did push the notion that Satan was more a mirror image of man standing up for his mental, physical, and spiritual rights in a world where the organized religions demanded that he deny his true nature and submit himself to the will and opinions of a larger and judge mental majority.

Modern Satanism now looks at Man and into the restrictions of the organized religion and says, "Who do you think you are to dictate to me?" If I keep the laws of the land, and obey the restrictions of my government, my personal morals and spiritual commitments are none of your damned business."

I can't say say I disagree.

Remember that every few years someone like Carl Raschke comes along, and we have to tolerate him for a while.

As I heard a very good friend of mine say - flush the toilet. He made a stink. You just don't have to pay attention.

OB

I agree the principle that human beings should be allowed to act like human beings, and should not be locked up in a box and put on a shelf to rot. This is absolutely where I have a problem with the notion of abstinence - where people say they are doing it for their religious faiths. Denying ourselves what it is to be human is absolutely stupid - And anyone who says different is deluding themselves. I have a problem with the christian god for this very reason - He says, "Don't do ten specific things - If you do you will suffer forever in hell, but I love you". (Carlin, 1937-2008 RIP) It's a load of bullshit. I view the christian god as a sadistic, absentee landlord - I know, let's create a race of beings, give them the ability to reason, and then condemn them when they start to use the reasoning ability we just gave them. Whatever. I have said it before and I will say it again - organized religion is BULLSHIT, it is designed to control people and hold humanity hostage in its own insecurities. It takes in billions a year and pays not one red cent in taxes. So they can keep their religion, while their religious leaders live in wealth and grandeur in their marble and golden vatican city there are people living outside the vatican in squalor - some missionaries of god they are.

I will stop ranting now. Religion is a deeply personal thing and whatever makes sense to each of us is OUR OWN TRUTH. I ultimately do not have an issue with other people around me of various denominations, it becomes a problem when they try to force their beliefs on me. If we are to ever evolve past our current existence, we must expose the institution that is the church for what it really is - a several thousand year old lie that was built on lies.

I dole a portion of the blame to Secular media as well, they need to Blazon every Swastika, Upside down Cross, or Pentagram Graffiti attack as "Occults? In Your Neighborhood?" When all in all it is Ass-hats-in-ape-packs-one-uping each other, to show who is most daring, and darker then the other, when all it is is perpetuating what they were led to believe was signs of Satan Worshipers.. repeat .. rewash.. Cue.. Ad finum..as media, fueled often leaning against religious based sponsors

ive not heard of jews doing so, but i have heard plenty of moslems that refer to not believers as followers of shaitan. you would hear about it in iraq alot.

the kemets (those that follow egyptian beliefs) see set as the bad guy

asatruar have loki

so its not just the christians, but in this country at least, they have the numbers so they are heard from the most.
~W~

shatain is illusion "smokeless fire".

They jsut dont know of things that they're not into. i normally tend to ignore it because the people that know me dont consider me to be like that on any level. yeah i can b like some of those things, but not on a normal basis. its just how people think. its not right but its how we have to deal.

Birra makes a very good point that the Churches that despise the Satanic side do not want to mention the"Other
side of the valley".
And if they do it is always about lies and burning and never once a concession that the other side of the Valley can be quite peaceful at night, and the Bats are an essential part of ecology.Or that raves under the moonlight are wicked fun.
Instead they just slag off the wet-backs, secretly get drunk then sneak off to the choir boy dorms.Well evidently some do; and then have the cheek to introduce the condom after centuries of disease has withered their flocks and wonder why nobody listens anymore.Moreover Hollywood and books re-enforce the stereo type.
Wouldn't it be ground breaking to see the charitable satanist who lead people away from slavery and proselytizing doctrine to a land of parties, freedom and new found spirituality under the stars.Just a thought.

Without being biased, I will say this, since the dawn of time we have searched to find blame for the things we do.

"The woman you gave me, she made me do it."

"The snake tricked me."

"The devil made me do it."

In reality, every evil that has ever been committed on this planet, ever, was by mankind. No magician nor sadist, no demon or rock group made us do it, we volunteered.

That being said, my one question is this, how many people of all faiths look else where and negate our chances for real change and hope for the future by just placing credit for our actions where they belong, us.


The worst serial killer in history, was still responsible for his actions, no matter the childhood, the drugs he took, the religion he followed or the entertainment he enjoyed. Just as the best person to ever walk the earth is responsible for his actions.

Very interesting.

Sounds like this author is biased. While there are satanic and occult influences that permeate through American culture, it is up the the individuals free will to determine the actions that are taken.

Religious people tend to want to be apart of a battle, fanatics want power to be granted them. usurping ones deity is nothing new, and actually those who propagate moronic behavior "In the Name of Satan" are doing the same thing. So there are Fundy "Devil Worshipers" just as there are "Jesus Freaks".

i heard LaVey wrote the satanic bible just to prove he could make a bunch of people believe anything that sounded attractive. Thoughts?

Of all the items that you posted - Number 9 (on the Mayans) gets the cake.

There have a been a lot of lore about the Mayans and not to mention movies (dare I say it - 2012) that have been based on Mayan myths.

But then again, the Mayans also did have a lot of other things close to what we have here - vampires and werewolf myths.

Anyways, thanks for posting this.

I was just wondering, what is going through Satan mind, by seeing the humans giving thanks to a Turkey. LOL Yes, the things that we do, is almost funny and pleasant, just like a continuous comedy. That Satanic People follow Thanksgiving? I was just wondering.

Aw. Marcus, no.

Queen Elizabeth of 16th century England did eat roasted goose AND when she heard that the Spanish Armada sunk, she ordered another batch of goose to chow down - for thanks.

That's in England.

But when the Pilgrims arrived to the land of milk and honey - America - geese were hard to find, while turkey was an easy catch.

Thus we celebrate Thanksgiving with a turkey and not giving thanks to a turkey.

Funny thing though, you thinking about what people who worship Satan on Thanksgiving. Hah!

Ahhh, Thanks!!!! Always is good to be enlighten and to learn something new.

You're welcome!!

I think it would be hilarious to see the expression on satans face when he sees countless people praying seemingly TO their food. Turkey, goose, if you give thanks before the meal the history really doesn't matter, it can still be seen as giving thanks TO the meal, rather than for it.

And anyway, unless the schools need a complete overhaul for faulty teachings, Thanksgiving is an american holiday, started IN america, the first celebration of which was shared between pioneers and indians (Just before americans decided to slaughter their new friends) in December, and was later moved back to November so as not to interfere with the shopping week. (December 11th)
here's a link http://wilstar.com/holidays/thankstr.htm

Alright - let's make one thing clear.

We say grace or probably utter a small sentence of thanks to God or to whoever is listening or to whoever we think is listening.

And not to the food food which we're about to sink our incisors in.

It's just like you are saying that we're back in ye olden times - when the Israelites; in the absence of Mose, prayed to a golden calf.

Regardless if it's Thanksgiving or not.

I'm aware of that.
From outside the house looking in, one would not be able to tell who the prayer is directed at, and could easily assume it is to the food itself.
This is what makes it funny until dissected

Some opt to forgo any pray, or grace, and just articulate about what they are thankful for. Thanks giving is a very atheist friendly celebration, The settlers being so thankful the indigenous tribes feed their pathetically unprepared asses.

Anton LeVay is a very interesting man. I remember when everyone was up in arms about him back in the sixties. He was quite flamboyant. He picked what he thought was the best out of occult writings and things he knew and experienced to write in his Bible when approached by Avon Books. Some have called it plaigarism but that could be said of many people. Ideas are exchanged and they are reinterpreted by others.

The thing is, people shouldn't assume when the word Satanist is stated that it has anything to do with Christian views. There are some that do base their beliefs on those views but like most of the more recognized religions, Satanism has many faces and can be many things. It is not all the same. In certain religions Satan never fell at all and holds a high place next to God as an adversarial angel at the behest of God.

Levayan style Satanism has only been around for such a short time in the scheme of things and yet they have been talking about Satanism long before that time. It is the legends that have evolved by religious beliefs that have made people think it is evil. Some is mere propaganda and other times it is the actions of deranged people who just use the tag. Most often from what I have read it is things that have been handed down through superstitions from times centuries prior. There are those that do look upon this angel as fallen and worship him as a god. As whether to assume they are doing anything negative is presumptious on the writer's part. Anyone can call themselves by any name and the use of that word to some is empowerment.

I find it amusing that most of the people on this particular website have no idea what Satanisim is really about. It is certainly NOT a spin off of Christianity, nor is it certianly NOT worshiping Satan as a god.(that would be a cult, dear children, and is not Satanisim but devil worship which are both completely different things) Ignorance of something is no excuse to talk about it. As being actually somewhat interested in the Satanic religion, I own most of the books that entail the religions beliefs and practices. Which do not include: Human sacrifice, baby killings, the ritualistic killing of animals what-so-ever, or any form of colective gathering. It is against their beliefs to harm or kill any animal or small child for any reason. As far as what they worship, they are the gods or goddesses of their own world. They simply worship themselves. So please, do your homework when trying to spout off on a subject you know nothing about, if you have any questions, or replies to this, contact me, I'd be ever-so happy to continue this disscussion.

Actual satanism is more or less an individual adopting the mindset of satan himself, if i've heard correctly.
What would be the sort of thing a satanist would be active in, if anything close to specific? And what would the reason why a satanist would not take part in those activities be?
Google has like.. over a thousand different theories >_>

There are two forms of satanism, the more well known is more of a humanist belief than anything else and the one you very seldom hear about and never see anything concrete on is the one that worships satan in bid for power of different types. This is most likely just a more direct way to address the same entity that the different cults that worshiped "false gods" worshiped.

sycotic

I think you are reading post from another site.

In this thread no one is presenting the stereotypical trapping that are perpetuated about Satanism, the whole thread from the start clearly demonstrates how authors (usually with bias) tack ambiguous, and vague misnomers onto something (often with hopes of fanning pyres against the ideal, or belief.


I would ask you to copy paste any post here that does as you declare.

I would suspect there are people here who have a much more sound concept of satanism as you do. Owning books does not make a scholar.

to the ditzy and obscene, I offer this one piece of advice. If you think you have something to offer, something real, then my all means offer it up. If all you have is gross misspellings and missed grammar, then perhaps you could keep it to yourself.

While it is true that owning a book does not make one a scholar, neither does criticism without basis.

My point was that Sycotics post was unwarrented.

The vary presence of this thread shows how VR members are breaking thru the stereotypes leveled against Satanism. Though I am sure there are some who opt to remain ignorant, and perpetuate such stereotypes.

While I can lump most of this information into the biased and misinformed, there are two points of which I can speak. First, his discussion of the Knight Templar is utterly false and is not based on any of the current historiography. I've done work on the KT and I've read many of the primary sources (granted in translation). We know very little of any accurate fact about the sect and so to make such blanket statements about their activities and connections to later sects is an obscenity to scholarship.

Second, his analysis of the Cathars is just as much of an affront to history as the Templars. The Cathars were Christians and no reputable historian would ever say otherwise. This is like denying the Holocaust in the historical world. They held the same core beliefs in Jesus as any other Christian. They deviated from orthodox interpretations of the scriptures and chose to follow many of the holy texts that were eliminated from the Bible when it was created in 312. This earned them the label of heretic. They also provided the pope with an excellent excuse to continue the Church's miserable history of the Crusades by turning the wars against heretics in Europe rather than lose one more time to the Muslims.

I loath it when some idiot twists history to suit his or her narrow ideology...

seems to be the constant with fundamentalist authors.

Fundamentalists period from my experience...

People who believe in something so fervently that they are unwilling to allow others to explore the higher powers in their own way frighten me deeply. I am not a Satanist, for example, but for those who worship him... they find something very powerful there. Some of us worship nature, ancients gods and goddesses... one of my friends worships trees... if it helps you find peace so be it. Sadly there are so many who think there is only one god... and they've been so willing to kill in the name of that belief...

see by saying "Those who worship him.." you perpetuate a myth about satanism. One that propagates satanism being a different side of the Christian Coin. I follow the rest of your post.

A point to make here:

Satan as an entity actually does not exist outside of the Christian paradigm. So in essence, as a theology, it is indeed a faction of Christianity. To worship the more broad concept of darkness does remove the Christian facet.

While I do not consider Satanism the "other side of the Christian coin," it must be considered under the larger religious philosophy as such. Much like the various Jesus-centered Christian sects, Satanists follow a being created in Biblical scripture. The specific reference to Satan does not occur before the advent of Christianity.

To say there are dark forces in the world changes the issue. Every religious sect that historians understand has some concept of good and evil/ dark and light. How those forces are interpreted varies greatly and the worship of those forces has always occurred.

The term worship is not a Christian specific term either. I worship my gods and goddesses and I am not a Christian. That's how I use and apply the term just for clarification of my terminology.

Not all satanist worship a corporeal entity. However, fundamentalist grind that myth into their sermons.

Many "people" argue, that anybody that follow or "worship" Satan, is prone to be possessed by demons forces. There is a glitch in that statement, and that is because almost all the possessed recorded, were not follower of Satan, by the contrary, they were follower of another religions. Another misconception is that all follower of Satan will burn in a eternal Hell. Wrong!!!! Satan take a good care of his follower, the same as God do to his Christian follower. There always will be rivalry between those two, God and the Devil, is just like politics. Have a wonderful day!!!

darn.. so many questions, n answers, 'cept:

Levi and their ilk profess to know.. as do many others, as do Christians and.. hells teeth, after all what christians have done in the name of their god, what right do they have to criticise anyone?

NB: My grandad was a Mason... in the community of the day, it was a bunch of enterprising businessmen, who found comfort and 'good business', from their meeting.

Let me begin by saying that I do not follow Satanism. I am a devout Wiccan and therefore choose to follow nature in itself and my Goddess. However, the religious views of others are not mine to judge. Just as Christians have often misjudged me as a Wiccan, Satanists are often misjudged for their beliefs on a much larger scale. Who gave others the power to judge? Christians, as we should all know, believe in a God who created Earth and holds all the power in the world. So, shouldn't the Christians believe that it is God's job to place judgement on his own creations? Is it not believed to be God's place to 'smite the sinner' as they say? I use the Christian faith as an example of the many who place judgement simply because in my own personal experience, I have known Christians to be the most judgemental of other religions. I have also seen many examples of Christians using their "faith" as an excuse to break their own rules.
"HE THAT IS WITHOUT SIN AMONG YOU, LET HIM FIRST CAST A STONE AT HER ." This is a verse from the New Testament of the Bible. It basically says that men who have done wrong cannot judge those who also make mistakes, yet Christians will be the first to judge a Satanist, or a Wiccan for that matter. Should they be allowed to break their own rules? No, but they do. Should we? No, but so do all of us.
So stop judging! If someone doesn't believe what you believe, it is his or her own business, not yours, not mine. America, my home country, was built on the foundations of freedom. Do we not all deserve freedom?