The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

Over the past few years, I have had the oppurtunity to visit the Mayan ruins of the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico. Ixtapa, Playa Del Carmen, Cozumel, and Costa Maya. To put it bluntly, the ruines blew my mind. Right down to the bloody 6 finger (yes.. 6 finger) handprints on the ruin. I listend to more then 1 or 2 tour guides go on about blood drinking rituals, and from what I gathered, a belief of a nonearthbound vamprie descending from the heavens.. The tops of most of these temples had such carvings depecting a being coming from the sky's... and this is where i got lost. My literary studies have been mostly about the European vampires.

I have been trying to find information and discussion on the Mayan Vampire. So far, I have found information only a pertaining to Camazotz, A Demon Bat-God inhabiting the Mayan hell, Xibalba. A blood-feeder He clawed the head off of Hun Hunahpu, but was ultimately defeated and cast out of creation.

I would love a discussion of this, and any links or refrences, books, etc.

The mayan culture was entirely based on blood rituals. I would suggest reading the Popol Vuh. It is the Mayan creation myth. To the Mayans, human blood was the gods water, and human flesh was the gods corn (food). Hence all the blood rituals.

The Myan ruins I saw were in Guatemala, and Belize back in 2003 i think. I saw a ruin that had just been discovered two years prior to my arival, and they found a perfectly intacted chamber in one of the structures. It was cool.

I am specificaly trying to find out the meaning of the carving at the top of the pyramids. upside down women.. giving birth up towards the vampire/demon.. etc.. descending from the sky.

Snovamp.. do you have a link or anything for the Popol Vuh.

Here it is: http://www.sacred-texts.com/nam/maya/pvgm/

Just so you know, it's a really weird read, and you are probably going to want to do it in stages.

ok. im going to give it a read in the morning. looks like it might be interesting too.

it is, and also very confusing. Just so you know there are multipule characters with the same name. So I sugest maybe charting it out as you go.

If we're looking at blood as the water of the gods and the women were upside down in a birthing position, then i'd imagine we're talking about an early attempt at explaining menstration.

I suppose that is one way of looking at it. Kinda funny to think about too.

This looks like a fascinating subject...is there anywhere (other than the website mentioned in the thread) that I can get some info?

The Mayan and the people of Peru have long had the belief that they are ascended from the Heavens. The Pleiadians to be exact. The Pleiadians are also known as the "blues." The so called nice aliens, as opposed to the "greys" that are known for the abductions. The crystal skull called "Max" is also known to be from the Pleiadians. It is dated to be about 30,000 years old! It was found near the Mayan temple. I have had the honor sitting with "Max" myself, alone for over 30 minutes. But that is another story.
As for the Mayan Vampire, there is more going on in that area that we are aware of. Visits are still going on if you listen to people like Shirley. Plus add to all the past history of blood and who knows. Would love to know more about it.

allgenre, this sounds fasinating I hope you can find more have you gone to Wikipedia yet for info they sometimes have a great wealth of info

I visited the Yucatan Penninsula ruins in 1993. They were off limits to tourist at the time but from the ground they are amazing. There were iguanas the size of snall dogs perched among the ruins. I have only heard the same history on the myths as you stated. great topic!

Well I actually read the Popol Vuh in book format for a world lit class I took. So you could go to a book store and look for it. Translations are going to different and you are going to see some christian influence in it because it was written down in spanish from the Myan glyphs during the Spanish conquest over south and central america.

I tried to read that.. OI! It was confusing.. im giving it another shot tonight!!

I plan on making yet another trip to the Mayan Ruins before the end of the year. There are quite a few i havent seen yet.. THis time, im hoping to hire a guide to get to the center of the peninsula.. (I LOVE BEING A TRAVEL AGENT!!)

Does anyone have anymore links?

Heh... And, thus, I will be enjoying the wonders of the Mayan Civilization first hand as well. Goooo Allgenre!!! LoL

The entire culture just warped my mind. Or rather, made me look back and go " If they were as deluded then as they appear, imagine how deluded we are now." I mean, seriously... If you think about it... Erm.. maybe thats for another topic. =)

Still, keep those links coming if anyone has information on the Mayan Vampires/Blood Rituals!

Well, I don't remember where I read it..possibly on here. But It was believed that Nephelim, or the sons of Angels and Woman were Anemic, as well as had a few other issues and needed human, or animal blood to sustain life. So its very possible that this bat god was a type of Nephelim. More likely one fathered by a more infamous angel like Lucifer.

Um the Nephelim are a Judism and christianity thing. They have nothing to do with the Myans.

And yes the Popol Vuh is confusing! I think I had to read the first 5 chapters 3-4 times before I figured out what the crap was going on.

National Geographic also did an article on the Popol Vuh not too long ago. So you could look that up as well.

Yes the Nephelim is Derived from Christianity and Hebrew. Though have you thought about story characters with great powers? Hercules, Achilies, And bare with me Beowulf, although he said to have gained his strength from his faith in God is it not possible he was actually Nephelim.

A drawing of a woman giving birth on her head to this vampire like creature. Could this not suggest a Nephelim? Again there is another belief that the Mortal Childeren of Lucifer were the true reasons for the floods around the world as his childeren were evil and hungered for human blood.

There are many, MANY creatures, but as many evil dark creatures there are that many more hero's. So is it not very possible?

You can't compare the two religions. Their creation everything about them is different. Anyways have you yourself ever seen a Nephelim? To be precise no one knows for sure what they look like. So you can't say they are vampire gross looking monsters. People just know what they are "sons of gods" that crossbread with "daughters of men." Nephelim are considered evil be christians and hebrews. In Myan religion blood isn't an evil thing. It is a sacrifical thing and angels and demons don't exist. There is only order and chaos. They gave blood to the gods to maintain order.

A difference of worlds and Religions does not mean it isn't possible. People interperet things differently. You've been flat out denying the possibility. Yes I know all about blood to keep order, my ancestors supposedly sacrificed twenty-thousand people in a very short time to appease their gods in a very very important ritual.

These people sacrificed so that the sun would rise another day. So evil creatures would not disturb and kill their people while they slept. I very well understand the importance of blood to these people.

it wasn't so evil creatures would disturb them. It was so the gods wouldnt disturb them.

NamelesslGuardian - Not at one time did i say she was giving birth on her head. I said the pictures were upside down.


Snowvamp - I read it twice. Made some note, and going to compare with some other stuff im looking at.

So far though, I have discovered that the Mayan's not only practicied sacraficial rituals, but they did practice alot of blood drinking rites. However, I have yet to uncover why... and thats the crux of it... im nosey.. and I want to know why.

As for the pictures chiseled into the tops of temples. I have found two reasons.. but not sure which is right.. or if both are right.

1> It was that to have been disrespectful to the god since he/she would be looking at it upside down otherwise.

2> Sacrificial offering of body and blood to god, or higher being. Which brings back to the batheaded god said to drink from the Mayans.

Anyone have any more links or info?

most glyphs chisled at the top of temples were to express the temples purpose, but that's not the case for some.

Like I said earlier... National geo did an article on the myans not too long ago. I'll try and find a link to the particular article i'm talking about. national geographic doesn't at least two or three articles on the mayans a year. So yea...

OOO if you find it.. please post here.

Most of the articles on the national geographic site are cut off. But I found another site that has a lot of information on the mayans...
http://www.mayadiscovery.com/ing/default.htm

you might find the information there useful

Wow...I am speechless. I was not aware that there were legends of Vampires in South Amerivan Culture. I have, however, heard of the sacrifices. I am learning from you guys, please continue on with this discussion...It is fascinating!

I would actually like to think that all legends may have some common links or myths that bring it all together. We know that almost every civilization talks of a great flood including the Mayans where Huracán (the Heart of Heaven) destroyed the first humans in anger because they forgot him.

So while using the term Nephelim to describe these children of powerful beings and man or woman may have been a bit touchy, the idea seems somewhat sound mythologically. A great many religions talk of gods or goddesses having children with mortals.

I'm not trying to imply that the Bat-God-Creature was in fact an offspring of god and woman but there doesn't seem to be a great deal of info on the birth or creation of Camazotz.

The mayans didn't have a flood. They were just destroyed, so thats different from european and asianic religions. And if you read the Popul Vuh, humans were destroyed 4 times before the gods were finally satisfied. And if disease or anything happened to the Mayans they would blame the gods, because one of them had to be pissed off about something so to punish the mayans (like with most things) the mayans had to pay with their lives.

snowvamp.. in reading that.. there was an endless rain that lead one to think there was a great flood.

Was I reading that wrong?

nope it wasn't a flood. That was my understanding of it from when I was in Central and South America, and from what I read in the Popul Vuh. The people I talked to didn't seem to associate it with flooding, but then again I was being given a crash course in Mayan history when I was there. So you never know.

Mayans generally don't go into very much depth about their relgion and history. A lot of their culture is left a secret for a reason. If you have read the Popul Vuh you probably noticed the numbers 4 and 7 a lot. You will never know the significance of those numbers because the Mayans won't tell anyone outside of their culture. There are a lot of hidden meanings in the Popul Vuh, so "endless rain" doesn't necessarily mean flooding. And you also have to keep in mind that the translation is altered slightly. The person who wrote it down was writting it during the Spanish conquest, and the conquistadors were attempting to convert all of the Mayans. So you have to notice the Christian influence in some areas of the Popul Vuh.

In both the Washington State University website, Wikepedia, and the world religion site at www.metareligion.com, the translation states that the first men made of wood, were destroyed by a great flood.

"Immediately the wooden figures were annihilated, destroyed, broken up, and killed.

A flood was brought about by the Heart of Heaven; a great flood was formed which fell on the heads of the wooden creatures.

Of tzité, the flesh of man was made, but when woman was fashioned by the Creator and the Maker, her flesh was made of rushes. These were the materials the Creator and the Maker wanted to use in making them.

But those that they had made, that they had created, did not think, did not speak with their Creator, their Maker. And for this reason they were killed, they were deluged. A heavy resin fell from the sky. The one called Xecotcovach came and gouged out their eyes; Camalotz came and cut off their heads; Cotzbalam came and devoured their flesh. Tucumbalam came, too, and broke and mangled their bones and their nerves, and ground and crumbled their bones."

In truth though, the point is that many cultures (almost all of them) have very similar stories and mythology in their history of creation and destruction. I find that to support the idea that other parts of religion may have also been from a 'global memory' of great events...be they floods, destroyed cities, or gods mating with mortals.

Felix.. have you not been listening to me?!! The translation we changed slightly to have christian beliefs incorporated into them. If you ask a Mayan about that, they won't agree with it entirely. If you read the Popul Vuh you will also notice a variation off of the virgin birth. That again is a change that occured during the translation. The Mayans won't tell you outright what happened because they tend to really safe guard their religion. Personally I don't blame them. All they really give the outside world is a general idea. But believe what you will. Just in my own personal experience of talking to Mayans, and reading/discussing the Popul Vuh in a lit. class, the Mayans vs the European/Asianic religions are completely different. But that isn't what this forum is about. And we are getting really off topic discussing this.

There is a god with a bat head. Might be something there.

I read about the god with the bat head (its in one of my earlier posts), but its been extremely difficult to find any information on that.

when I was visiting the ruins, and alot of the stores and exhibits on the interior of Cozumel.. i noticed that most of the Mayan pottery sculptures had fangs for incisors. So when I look on this demon god with the bat head, blood drinking and sacrifices... I ask myself.. is this perhaps some of the first instances where an entire culture of people practiced a form of Vamparisim.. though maybe by a different name?

Maybe so... I mean that culture is driven by blood. But our idea behind vampirism as we know it all stems from the idea there is a creature that came out of hell/chaos to spread hell/chaos. To them blood was the tool to install order. So a vampire would be something to establish order. Kind of a strange twist to it.

A strange twist indeed, and one I would truly love to explore more of.

You are so right though, about Mayans being extremely secretive - including their now living relatives.

I know. I think the modern Mayans are even more secretive than ever now. But it makes sense. If you look at every religion that people know a lot about like Paganism, christianity, islam, and judism there are a lot of negitive feels towards them... as well as positive. But the Mayan religion... know one knows what to feel because no one knows enough about it except the Mayans and they aren't talking.

Fascinating.

I recollect reading something some time ago about the Games which the Mayans took seriously to compete for the "Right" to be sacrified. Much like the celtic games for the same reason.

From what you have written so far however the reasoning seams differnt.

To the celts this world is pain and suffering (so that the spirit may learn) and to pass on to the world of the ever living was release, but for the mayans the BLOOD is the important part, sort of providing the gods with the tastiest food!

Interesting.

wow... I think I need to have a history lesson. But there is something that I always try to keep in mind when questioning things, there always seems to be a grain of truth that comes out of stories and legends.

This is true.

You know I just thought of something. Mayans just seem to have an obessision with fanged animals or winged animals in general. Maybe that goes into the whole vampire thing.

SnowVamp - I was listening to you and I agree that there is a huge possibility for religious editing on the part of conquerers...but given the fact that the current Maya population doesn't have a direct answer to the disappearrance of the previous Mayan culture and given that the Modern Maya are broken into 31 completely different groups with completely different languages depending on the geographic location, I'd think it would be hard to say what is and isn't true as far as translation goes.

You aren't listening. Anywho like I said subject that we arguing about is closed.... because it has little to do with what we are suppose to be discussing. SO GET BACK ON SUBJECT!!!

Allgenre - what was the site with the handprint and Camazotz? I'm heading to the Yucatan peninsula this year.

The bloody 6 finger handprints I saw myself at the Tulum Ruins near Cozumel/Playa Del Carmen.

Here are what websites I have found.. well.. websites that didnt strike me as ground up horseshit.

http://www.blueroadrunner.com/camazotz.htm

http://web.raex.com/~obsidian/Mayapan.html#Hunahpu-Ixbalanque

Snowvamp - I too noticed the Mayan obsession with fanged animals, which is reflected in their pottery.

Now I could be wrong.. as our guide didnt get all in depth, but I believe either the nobles of Mayan culture, or the sacraficial victims.. had "the right" to have their teeth filed into fangs.

Ill see if I can find a way to clarify that.. or if anyone can, please post here with a link.


Personaly, I believe the Mayans were practicing a very early form of Vampirism, though called a different name.

Now filing the teeth to fangs I didn't know about! It would probably be priests and scarifical victims that had it done most likely. Fangs would be something that would represent the gods. So scarifical victims because they are being given to the gods, or priests because they were representing the gods. Something tells me it probably wasn't the kings. But that is really interesting. I'm going to have to look into that!

this is a very good topic for discussion and has sparked my interests as its been awhile since i have read up on the mayans, but i did like nameless's idea about the possible nephilim which is christian based, but they could be named a different thing in another civilization

and maybe the mayans now are hiding something and vampires in the true undead sense they know about more than any other religion and hide it for a reason, very good thread here as i think i will add it as favorites and look at the links everyone posted

That link about the giant vampire bat. Based off of reading that, it almost sounds like they worshiped the animal. I think I agree with you, this a culture that is heavily based on vampirism... or something like it. At least blood is a huge part of it!

It appears it was something everyone did, and it didn't have to do with death.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/belize/updates/pooks1.html

Also found a link indicating it was done for beauty purposes....

http://www.ambergriscaye.com/museum/digit3.html

It seems they would put pieces of jade or fools gold into their teeth!

snowvamp,

I disagree with your assertion that Felix, ampng others, is speaking off topic, since it is vitally important to understand the historical contexts in which myth's and legends are born.

And why is it unacceptable to you that someone would wish to correlate ideas of vampyrism from other cultures, which hold similarities?

I don't feel that there is a need to be so defensive towards the thread topic, since, as you yourself accept, the factual basis for much of your own statements regarding this, are based upon rumour and supposition about a secretive history which descended Maya do not wish to discuss.

The only way in which truth can be driven at in such circumstances, is to examine the surrounding cultures and their interactions with the Mayan.

I find it fascinating that the Maya, Azteca, et al, were heavily into warfare and sacrifice, but to be frank, most animals that survive in the jungle have big sharp pointy teeth, such as Jaguar, so I wouldn't yet place too much stock in depicted beasts with pointy teeth being representations of vampyres, not least until it can be supported with some form of archeological evidence.

I'm not saying that understandin the Mayan religion is bad. I'm just saying that comparing it to christianity is WRONG! It is nothing like it, and a Mayan would smile and laugh at that assumption. What I'm trying to say is that you have to realize that the translations we are reading are tainted. The Mayans don't want the outside world knowing their secrets. And you can't compare christianity and Mayanism. You have to look at the two seperately... not together.

Now I appreciate trying to understand the culture. But this thread is a specific thread. On Mayan Vampirism to be exact. Not about the religion in general... and certainaly not on the Mayan religion vs Christianity. If you want to discuss that start another thread. But i'm here to figure out Mayan Vampirism!

Now back to the teeth filing!
From what I've researched, the filing had something to do with the emulation of the jaguar. Jaguars were held in very high esteem by the Mayans.

I see your reasoning, but please accept that people have to have a frame of reference in which to understand something.

Early Christian experiences of the Blood Sacrifices and cultures of that ilk, would have been quite alien and would have been recorded in a fashion concurrent with their understanding.

And so, by realising this, one can take the benefit of hindsight and work to decipher what was actually meant by their interperatations and equivalences, within biblical concepts.

As for filing teeth, pygmy women in South-West Africa do this too, but this hardly realates anything to vampyres.

http://www.crystalinks.com/mayanspiderwomen.html

please take a look at this site...here is a quota:
"Description

Her most obvious trait is simply the fact that she is female, but she does have several other recognizable qualities to help archaeologists identify her.

The great goddess wears a frame headdress that often includes the face of a jaguar and has a medallion in the center on which an owl is usually depicted.

She will also be shown among several spiders and is frequently seen with a yellow body coloration, further distinguishing her from other Mesoamerican deities.

Her single most recognizable feature, however, is a very distinguishable nosepiece. This bar is large enough to conceal her whole mouth, and is equipped with what appears to be arachnid-like fangs. The rectangle-shaped bar hangs from directly under her nose and usually has three circles on it. Immediately below these circles hang three fangs. The two outer fangs curl to point away from the center, while the middle fang just comes straight down looking like the letter U. The overall affect, then, is an otherwise plain Mesoamerican goddess with a frighteningly spider-like appearance.

Domain

This Spider Woman is now thought to have been a goddess of the underworld, darkness, the earth, water, war, and possibly even creation itself. To the ancient civilizations of Mesoamerica, the jaguar, the owl, and especially the spider were considered creatures of darkness, often found in caves and during the night. The fact that the Teotihuacan Spider Woman is frequently depicted with all of these creatures further supports the idea of her underworld connections.

The "great goddess" is connected to darkness and caves, water, and war. One reason to accept these associations is simply because of the jaguar commonly found in her headdress. The jaguar was arguably the most important animal to the Mesoamericans when it came to mythology. The fact, then, that the Spider Woman was associated with the jaguar suggests her greatness. The largest species of cat in the new world, the jaguar can be active at any time during the day, but is most often seen on the prowl at night, and especially at dusk or dawn. It is no wonder, then, that these ancient people related the big cats to darkness, for they are truly the rulers of the night. "

Katarina,

All of that article is very intriguing, but where do you feel it links in with vampyrism, besides her association with all things dark and having pointy teeth?

Stabb - we arent talking about Pygmy women for one. You do have a habit of locking onto one thing and running with it solo, instead of looking at the entire picture.

So why do I think that the filing of teeth into fangs may have been related to vampirism among the Mayans? I mentioned this earlier. Perhaps you missed it? On most of the pottery and sculptures I have seen of the Mayans when I was there, they had fangs. All of the teeth shown in/on the works of art were quite normal. Except for the two fangs. Now this could be further emulating the Jaguar, which they obviously held in the highest regard, or it could be a sign of vampirism.. or it could be something else. Being as the Mayans held many blood sacrafices, and it has been shown they DID consume blood, coupled with the other facts of worshiping a a good with a batlike head, and the pictures denoted at the top of the temples. I believe the filing of teeth into fangs also had something to do with it as well.


Snow - I noticed most articles are showing all the teeth filed. Now, our tour guide could have been pulling our chains. I would like to think he wasnt as we paid money for the history lessons and the tours. According to him, a select few only had the two teeth filed into fangs, the rest of the teeth in that persons mouth were left alone.

Stabb, It was not an attack on your person. If you took it that way, it wasnt meant to be. It did seem like you were picking on small point and running with it.

The discussion is speculation at best. Information that I have gathered on my visits there, and through the web which is very little indeed.

Being as how I didnt record my guides discussion with our group - who by the way is of Mayan ancestry.. I have nothing to give you.

I did open this thread for further investigation of the possibility of Mayan Vampirism. Note the word: POSSIBILITY.

Based on the information I have found so far, and that which I got while on the tours.. I am offering a THEORY. Not cold hard fact.

Interesting article....

Anywho, I was wondering if anyone did anymore research on those huge vampire bats? I'm beginning to wonder if that is the reason why they have a god with a bat head. Because from what I found, they were an animal that was both held with high regard but also feared.

How big do vampire bats get, anyways? Not to stray, just curious?

Stabb, you are more then welcome to play devils advocate. Im not making any final judgements at all - as that would then leave me closed minded to anything else or new that may come up.

Snow, I havent really looked at those huge bats. I have had 3 deadlines come up, so my attention has been rather drawn away.


And Stabb, perhaps you could share with us, what you know about the Mayans a bit more in depth?

Mustad -

(taken from The Cryptid Zoo) Science recognizes only three living species of vampire bat: the common vampire bat, the white-winged vampire bat and the hairy-legged vampire bat. All three species are found in South America and/or Central America. Today's vampire bats are quite tiny; they can easily be enclosed in a person's hand, with wingspans that do not exceed 8 inches. But they had a larger cousin, who is thought to be extinct. Named the giant vampire bat or Desmodus draculae, this creature inhabited Venezuela and Brazil in South America during the Pleistocene. Its wingspan has been reconstructed as being about 17 inches when it was alive.

But perhaps it, or a related species, is still alive today. Reports from cattlemen in southeastern Brazil describe a large bloodsucking bat that sounds like the presumably extinct giant vampire bat. Reported sizes cover a range, up to a wingspan of 3 feet, 3 inches. Cryptozoologists have so far failed to find any living examples of the giant vampire bat, but there is still much hope. Bats are some of the hardest animals in the world to locate, and therefore many new species are thought to await discovery.

Along with the teeth modifications, the myans would remove parts of their skulls.

Durring a class i had taken the professor said that there is a fertilization ritual to prepair the land in which blood is drained from a sacrifice and mixed in with the grain to plant and drank by females who were considered of age, to help please the earth and insure fertility in both cases.

I have also read about instances in which cannabalism occured, but not for nourishment. If a man were a fast runner then people would eat his legs in hope that the spirit would transpher the trait.

It was of my humble opinion that the spider woman had "vampiric" qualities. She was worshipped with blood letting. Her high priestess wore ceremonial teeth. She was associated with darkness. Also since she was a war goddess, enemies captured were often sacrificed to placate her...like the ritualistic cutting out of the heart....since it is assumed that she needed placating...because of the bloodlust. So yes, this one's humble opinion was that she could have been a link to the thread...mayan vampirism.
I was also reading somewhere that the women being upside down could have something to do with menstruation..and possible blood rituals during that time.

The ancient Mayans could of also believed in vampires considering they shared their land with vampire bats. They told of the god of the caves, a part-bat part-human creature, called Camazotz. He was a particularly unsavoury character, and feared by the Mayan people - though not feared enough that he was not a popular subject for art, easily identified by his claws and rodent nose.

I have also read that a great deal of the ancient human sacrifice that took place in the Aztec and Mayan cultures was to keep the fifth destruction of the earth from occuring by placating the god responsible and less about placating the gods on a daily level. I know in the Aztec culture, this was the god Tonatuih and that the 5th destruction would be from the sun itself...Unlike the Maya who had calculated the destruction to a date (December 23rd, 2012 as discussed in other threads), the Aztecs has lost their ability to calculate the exact date and instead were totally committed to trying to slow down or stop the 5th destruction with human sacrifice.

The Mayan civilisation was one the most advnced cultres in history, so advanced in fact that we have only just within the past 120 years come to surpass them.

Its religions and cults all deeply connected with death, blood scarifice and communion with the gods.
Including having relations with them.

As for the woman giving birth I would say it is more the artists perception than she being upside down. Indeed shes giving birth but move the image around in your mind.

well I did not know all this and I am glad to of stopped in and now I will visit the website and get myself a history lesson TY