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Are you a Vampire?
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SangreNuestra
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16:04:16 Dec 02 2010
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First and far most I am not bashing Vampires I understand that many people live a life as such and I completely respect that. I am fascinated with Vampires and am trying to understand.

My question "Are you a Vampire?" is solely to comprehend the connection with VR members who do claim to be Vampires and the description of a Vampire given. Is there anyone here who claims to be a Vampire as described on What is a Vampire? The description doesn't say a thing about Psy Vampires or Elemental Vampires. Where did all those labels come from and why use the label of Vampire?

I hope I am not disrespecting anyone, it is not my intention and I apologize now if I have by asking.




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dabbler
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16:05:16 Dec 02 2010
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Actually as sad as it is, I think one need wait a month until a thread can be reposted.



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Severus
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16:52:26 Dec 02 2010
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Why was all of the threads postings deleted in the first place??



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Doru
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17:02:59 Dec 02 2010
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Vampire Glyphs by Sean D. Francis

In 1908, a team of Italian archeologists uncovered a relic in the Minoan palace of Phaistos in Crete. This relic was a disc inscribed in an unknown language using stamps, signifying an example of movable type being used around 1600 b.c.e. This relic is referred to as the Phaistos Disc. A similar object was uncovered five years later in an excavation around the city currently called Ismir in Turkey.

Archeologists were excited about the second find, but soon became disheartened as the symbols were not the same. While the Phaistos Disc remains a mystery and possibly a historical anomaly, the second Disc, commonly referred to as the Belzeit Tablet, has been partially decoded in the late 20th century. What it has revealed is both startling and exciting.

For lack of a poetic description, the Belzeit Tablet was created by a unique Mystery Cult operating in the shadow of the ancient Greek city-states with clear connection to Egypt and the Hebrew tribes on the other side of the Mediterranean Sea. This cult practiced a ritualistic worship of beings best described as vampires.

Whether these vampiric beings truely existed or were simply a variant on the Bacchus rites that were performed is still left for debate among the scholars. On the disc, there were over eighteen glyphs represented, but only six have been fully translated and understood. Presented, for the first time on the internet, are the six glyphs and their interpreted meanings.

Balance

With balance comes harmony. Keeping things in balance is difficult. For the vampire, there are more personal issues that need to be kept in balance: predator-prey, passion-reason, lust-restraint, and violence-peace. Each needs to be exercised equally or harmony is lost. All of one thing, no matter how well intentioned or how well presented, will throw the balance off, disrupting the harmony, and destroying order.
Beast

Instinct plays a vital role. When a vampire looks at another she can see the raw primal force that lurks. Every calm is followed by a storm. The longer the calm the more violent the storm. Vampire respect the beast, as it is the instinct that drives passion and curiousity. the beast pushes boundaries, tests limits, and throws all caution to the wind. The beast is neither stupid nor intelligent. The beast is pure instinct.
Blood

Blood represents two important things to the vampire. It represents their existence. It is their source of strength and power. But it also represents their greatest weakness. The lust for blood has clouded the judgment of many. Are vampire powerful because of their reliance on blood, or are they powerful because of the control they have over their addiction. No matter which, the addiction is a downward spiral that inevitably ends in personal destruction for the weak.
City

Cities represent the development of civilization and the inevitable collapse of civilization. Vampire have witnessed this cycle over and over. When a vampire sees something being built, she can remember what used to be at that location before and knows that eventually the current structure will collapse over time, or be demolished. No empire lasts forever.
Reaper

Harvest is a time of death and a time of cleansing. The concept of death to the immortal loses meaning over time. It becomes less a time to fear but a time to be cleansed. A vampire knows that once a generation she needs to cleanse herself and begin anew in order to perpetrate her unnatural existence among mortals. Ending are beginnings.
Sun

Contrary to popular belief, vampires do not curse the Sun any more than a man who cannot swim curses the ocean. The Sun to the vampire represents the inevitable. There are many things once cannot have any control over, even if one is immortal. The Sun represents all that cannot be controlled. It is a fact that must be endured and worked around.

From the following link:
http://www.stygianlabyrinth.net/ariadne/misc/misc_glyphs.htm



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dabbler
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17:04:25 Dec 02 2010
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The last thread was closed due to lenght. So this is a duplicate.



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Severus
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17:44:03 Dec 02 2010
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Upir you are really sad... you do mock and I will once again prove it to the viewers of this thread.

You make posts which say that a persons ideology is lacking in your own words "Merit and scientific fact." Then when you are asked by me to provide you own facts, regarding any origin theory your only response is and I quote:


"As for your apparent "toe-to-toe" challenge, call me strange... but I prefer to and actually do discuss Egyptology with actual Egyptologists, Sumerology with actual Sumerologists and science with those who actually appreciate such and have more than dogmatism to offer."


So in other words we aren't good enough for you!!

You want to discuss things but we clearly are not intellectual enough for you to discuss your Ideals with, you would prefer to sit in the cheat seat and point out flaws with others but you are unwilling to subject yourself to your own standard or measure. Unless of course it is with "those who actually appreciate such and have more than dogmatism to offer."


I give you the department, name of my Collage, and the the location. You know full well that anyone can look up online any individual that holds degrees with the info I have given. Human resource departments do this a million times a day across the globe. But instead of looking you jest and boost you own ego by saying you doubt me and divert the attention and blame away from yourself... it is our fault that the thread has gone to hell.

You sir are good at finger pointing and not much else.
I have given you the floor and you chose to raise yourself above the debate and make yourself untouchable.
Again doing exactly what you claim to hate in others.
You hide behind your undocumented stature as an educated man of scientific principle, which you claim to have.
If there is anyone here who is not be believe in I would have to say it is you.

You are simply a Spiteful man... and This conversation is over.



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UpirLikhyj
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18:20:24 Dec 02 2010
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Spoken like a true academician with an Ivy-League education, no doubt. Surprisingly, as it seems, most middle-school students are likewise capable of similar reasoning and writing skills given the remarkable similarities apparent between this latest post by you, Severus, and arguments commonly seen and witnessed here by all such. Obviously, therefore, our public education system must be much farther ahead of current estimations given that, most certainly, your claim to a Cornell education could not be anything but truthful.

Thank you for deeming fit to so eloquently state your case, express your logic and then slam the door shut on the issue given that, after all... you have spoken. How could I ever have considered you a dogmatist? My sincerest apologies, of course.


- Upir'



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Cabrion
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18:59:52 Dec 02 2010
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Everyone is good at pointing fingers, so long as they have fingers to point. (Sorry people without fingers... though i doubt you can read this because you have to type in your username+password to get here, and you need either fingers or extreeeme dedication to do that. I'm guessing you have fingers.)

Anyway as for the topic...
I believe the definition of vampire to be that which drains the life force of another thing. i would consider every human to be a vampire in some regard, but i see the word as an adjective, not a title.
I think people who seek out learning and wisdom in the name of transcending are called 'students'.
I think people who bash eachother in a thread about things the topic doesn't care about are wasting time. It may be beneficial to make a thread asking "Are Vampires Real?" and battling it out there, or maybe another thread "Upir Vs. Severus" where you guys can call eachother out and both keep being pretty awesome without letting the topic stray again.
This particular thread assumes that vampires are real



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UpirLikhyj
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19:31:47 Dec 02 2010
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Cabrion,

I believe vampires to be real, as well. What I and others have questioned are Doru's and Severus' recent proclamations regarding Vampirism as inherently religious in nature and specifically "Asetian" in reality. It was in questioning such that Doru and Severus deflected the discussion with escalating personal attacks that despite all efforts simply continued.

I did find Doru's last entry (in the now-closed "Are You a Vampire?" thread) regarding the Minoan and Anatolian (Turkish) artifacts to have been quite intriguing... though questions do remain regarding their authenticity.


- Upir'




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FallenStar
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19:54:50 Dec 02 2010
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Evidence, interesting every one seems to focus upon relics and this old tomb or that. Yet they ignore that which stares them in the face. I will say this once more and this is the last time since it falls on deaf ears. There is direct evidence on the History channel about the real Vampire princess.There is real evidence her death her Will and susequent post mortem were a massive cover up. She was the daughter of the Austrian royal family and the ONLY one not to be buired in their cathederal.She does have living relatives both in the Uk and abroad and is linked to the duke of kent and co who are head of the UK wizards.Wiki-
Prince Schwarzenberg is a member of the high nobility of Bohemia and also the current head of the House of Schwarzenberg since 1979.

He is a former Senator from Prague. In May 2010, he was elected a member of the Chamber of Deputies, gaining the largest number of Preference votes.Karel Schwarzenberg is the eldest son of Prince Karl VI of Schwarzenberg of the junior line and Princess Antonie von Fürstenberg. He is also the 1,322nd Knight of the Order of the Golden Fleece of Austria.
Born in Prague, his family fled the country after the Communist coup d'état in 1948 and he grew up in Austria. In the 1960s, he was active in Austrian politics, and he became a leading voice against the communist rule of his native Bohemia after the Prague Spring. He chaired the International Helsinki Federation for Human Rights 1984-1991.
The House of Schwarzenberg originates in Franconia, where the family still owns substantial property[citation needed], but made Bohemia their primary seat in the 17th century, also maintaining residences in Vienna.
And as our mad friend David Ickye would say
"It's all just co-incidence"...




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Cabrion
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01:03:22 Dec 03 2010
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wikipedia does contain a few facts, but only when it is also what the general public believes to be true.
I'm not sure who you mean by the Vampire Princess, but i vaguely recall you rambling something about Rasputan (i'm sorry, i kind of tune it out now) so i'm going to pretend you are talking about Anastasia... whose discovery in her family cemetery was kept hidden shortly after her disappearance..



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Silverhawk
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02:55:04 Dec 03 2010
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Wow...did this thread ever get hairy or what since I was here? :P What's a girl gotta do around here...throw it down and jump in with the men?....ohhh...wait, nevermind..that sounds too orgy-tastic...:P

What is the deal Severus? I leave the room and you start a bar fight? Geez..."really sad" and "simply spiteful?" Your sarcasms were a bit over the top there...Seriously....for an old-fashioned addage..."act your age and not your shoe-size."

*Silverhawk smacks her dear friend, Severus, upon the noggin' with her big Baton Rouge...:P "Down boy...afore I's slaps you silly and makes you like it!...Ragin' Cajun Style"...;) hehe..:P...*


As it is, I am in agreement with Upir in finding Doru's last contribution "intriguing" also. However, I'd like to touch base on a few of those things Doru's article brings up to the light..:)


Balance

With balance comes harmony. Keeping things in balance is difficult. For the vampire, there are more personal issues that need to be kept in balance: predator-prey, passion-reason, lust-restraint, and violence-peace. Each needs to be exercised equally or harmony is lost. All of one thing, no matter how well intentioned or how well presented, will throw the balance off, disrupting the harmony, and destroying order.

*Order and Chaos coexist in habitation with one another to test those well-intentioned souls to harmonize the Absolute that is within. As Upir so well noted in my earlier quote of Manly P. Hall...factually-based understanding and faith-filled belief can find a balance and thus the "whole" of truth...but as he also pointed out, not everyone finds that balance.

Beast

Instinct plays a vital role. When a vampire looks at another she can see the raw primal force that lurks. Every calm is followed by a storm. The longer the calm the more violent the storm. Vampire respect the beast, as it is the instinct that drives passion and curiousity. the beast pushes boundaries, tests limits, and throws all caution to the wind. The beast is neither stupid nor intelligent. The beast is pure instinct.

*Instinct is certainly primal...however it relates in this sense to the inner nature. Again, if Whole Balance is achieved, the inner nature becomes dependent upon the stimuli found within the Heart...and not behaviorly predictable to stimuli originating from other sources....such as "rising to the bait"...verbal or otherwise..;)


Blood

Blood represents two important things to the vampire. It represents their existence. It is their source of strength and power. But it also represents their greatest weakness. The lust for blood has clouded the judgment of many. Are vampire powerful because of their reliance on blood, or are they powerful because of the control they have over their addiction. No matter which, the addiction is a downward spiral that inevitably ends in personal destruction for the weak.

*Blood represents life to all things, it is the sustenance of the Mother's womb and from it springs all creatures and thus encompasses all existence. Blood is powerful in that it represents the Water, the Life, and the constant flow of Change in our lives. One who is lost in lustful pursuits of strength and power...insatiable devouring of what is merely necessary, turn that which is meet and good into a lascivious addiction. This is true of whatever addiction you hold and represents those who have not achieved Balance or tamed the Beast.


City

Cities represent the development of civilization and the inevitable collapse of civilization. Vampire have witnessed this cycle over and over. When a vampire sees something being built, she can remember what used to be at that location before and knows that eventually the current structure will collapse over time, or be demolished. No empire lasts forever.

*Jesus said as much too...;) as well, I can remember structures demolished and replaced in my 35 aaaannnnd holding (thank-you) years...verily I say unto you...."there is nothing new under the sun."

Reaper

Harvest is a time of death and a time of cleansing. The concept of death to the immortal loses meaning over time. It becomes less a time to fear but a time to be cleansed. A vampire knows that once a generation she needs to cleanse herself and begin anew in order to perpetrate her unnatural existence among mortals. Ending are beginnings.

*Harvest is also the time for storing up to survive the winter and was thus a celebratory ritual that has..throughout various cultures and ages...continued in some form or fashion...it is the time of giving thanks for the plenty that the harvest brings and also reflection upon the harsh conditions or trials that one travailed to bring the harvest in before it was ruined and all was lost. It is subsequent then to point out here that the Death was subjective to whether or not the Harvest was successful.


Sun

Contrary to popular belief, vampires do not curse the Sun any more than a man who cannot swim curses the ocean. The Sun to the vampire represents the inevitable. There are many things once cannot have any control over, even if one is immortal. The Sun represents all that cannot be controlled. It is a fact that must be endured and worked around.

*The alchemical sign of the Sun is a circle with a dot in the center. It represents the womb and the phallic and represents the life on a cellular level. Thus the Sun fuels the Blood of Life and continues the the path of the Serpent eating its own Tail...Immortality is summed up in the figure eight of Infinity...the Mobius Strip...the entwining of higher consciousness and thought..

Therefore the Sun is not a thing to be "endured and worked around," but one that must be embraced where the inner darkness is enlightened and thus, no longer ignorant to curse that which it did not understand in the beginning.

So I end with this quote for your consideration Doru..and Severus...and all Asetians...;)

"And thus the soul, though of divine origin, and proceeding from the regions on high, becomes merged in the dark receptacle of the body; and being naturally a posterior god, it descends hither through a certain voluntary inclination, for the sake of power, and of adorning inferior concerns. Hence, if it swiftly flies from hence it will suffer no injury from its revolt, since by this means it receives a knowledge of evil, unfolds its latent powers, and exhibits a variety of operations peculiar to its nature, which by perpetually abiding in an incorporeal habit, and never proceeding into energy, would have been bestowed in vain."

Plotinus

As to "what" does this have to do with vampires? Are we not in agreement that vampires seek to devour the life essence in its various forms? Hence Heraclites declared that we live the death of the soul and die the life of the soul, and Empedocles stated the process of generation causes the living to pass into the dead.

Thus...philosophically speaking...we are the living dead.

;)



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therealthing
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03:26:42 Dec 03 2010
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The word vampire itself seems to be clouded with a variety of definitions when used in conjunction with humans. However when one discuss a vampire bat, no one disputes whether they are vampire bats. People accept the term because they drink blood. So, if a human drinks blood, is it not they too are a vampire. BTW I do not drink blood. This is just stimulating conversation to me. There are also vampire birds and even vampire caterpillars, of which I wrote an article about in the VR database.

So, is it not the hollywood stereotypical vampire that people are really objecting to. Of course the thing with mirrors, garlic and such are part of long history of mixing various legends and experiences. There will always be things that are for your spirit to understand and not intellect.

There are many creatures that have existed and do exist that are not known to the western world. That doesn't mean they don't exist. Remember there was a time when people thought gorillas were a myth. No one believed they were real until finally someone proved it. Yes we should have proof of certain things, but there are some things that are beyond the mind's ability to comprehend that should be accepted for the truth they are and don't need debate.

The best cannot be seen or spoken. It is beyond the grasp of the intellect and all symbolic representation.

Individuals must be wise enough to know the truth when they hear it. Problem is most people in western society don't know what the truth is. So, they decide not to trust anything. There must be balance in all things, even trust. And first and foremost, you must trust yourself.

Luckily in my culture,Native American, I could go to elders that have held knowledge unchanged for thousands and thousands of years. So, I don't need to question it because I know I can trust that elder to tell me the same truth as it was spoken to them, verbatum. It is unfortunate that western society has broken down so much that they no longer even trust their own instincts.

So, perhaps the semantics of the word vampire is really what people are wrestling with ?



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GlindaLynn
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04:00:43 Dec 03 2010
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Has anyone actually posted anything that answered the question directly? I don't know I'm new here..



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Cabrion
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07:18:05 Dec 03 2010
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A couple people have Glinda, it's just not that simple for everryone, and gotta admit, it does make for an entertaining conversation ^_^



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Severus
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14:59:56 Dec 03 2010
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If I may say cabrion It's not entertaining at all, I am acussed of starting a bar fight but I'm not the one going after 18 year old high girls on the merit of their personal beliefs. This is how some of us live our lives and we take it seriously. Someone asks for real advice and information because they need Guidance and when it is given, in stroll the Proof Nazis. I'm not sure who made Upir forum overload in charge of deciding who beliefs have enough Merit to be admissible but this is exactly why most folks avoid the main forums like the Plague.
I tried hard to explain this fact... no one has the right to demand that you defend your position when you can't Even defend your own. It's a Social network Lighten up Would yeah... Geez.

But I see that is not possible So I give you your Forum... I did what I did before I came in here and I can do it just as easily without this forum.

You have lost a voice here today... Enjoy you victory.



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SangreNuestra
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15:55:14 Dec 03 2010
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This thread was not open to judge anyone's belief at all. Whether all of you agree or disagree, everyone is their own person with their own belief and certainly should be allowed to express those beliefs without the bashing. As an outsider (only because I am not a Vampire) I am ever so grateful that so much information has been posted. Like I have stated before, whether the information is good or bad. informative or not, right or wrong, speaking for myself I will ultimately take in what I will and discard the rest. The debate is good very strong points as a discussion should be.

Don't doubt yourself if you truly believe what you are saying then what anyone else says shouldn't even matter :)



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UpirLikhyj
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19:38:55 Dec 03 2010
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To answer such a question as posed by this forum topic, we must first come to grips with the definition of the term, itself: Vampire.

If, as Oceanne pointed out in the prior now-closed thread, a vampire is any being that requires outside energy to survives, then by such a definition not only are we all vampires... but, in fact, so also is every living organism in the Universe given that, in some fashion, all living things need energy whether from food, sunlight, water, etc. Of course, as mentioned in my reply to her erudite observation, if the term, vampire, is so open-ended as to include within all living organisms... the term loses all defining characteristics given that such include everyone and every living thing. And, obviously, whoever first coined the term back during or before the 11th Century was certainly attempting to define something, or someone, a bit more specific.

If such a defintion, on the other hand, refers to blood-drinkers... then, again, while more specific yet anyone can "drink blood." Thus the ability to drink blood does not limit the definition much further. Now, were this a religious rite engaged in as part of that which identifies a particular religious group, such as Doru and Severus have argued, at least this does further limit the definition.

However... such a religious definition does not satisfy the additional parameters that always have accompanied the blood-drinking trait found in Vampire Lore in which all such bloodsuckers were... reanimated corpses and, additionally, needed to drink blood to live and, in fact, did not eat food at all but instead only drank blood. Thus, I don't see how becoming a member of any "vampire" religion would imbue the initiate into such with any capacity to pass through death, itself, and then rise from the grave and "live" thereafter with only blood as an energy source.

Thus... we seem to be left (in my view, at least) with only two other possible definitions.

The first being what I feel we most often see here: Those who choose to emulate the Vampire of fiction without actually being, themselves, reanimated corpses who live solely on drinking blood, as Vampires have always been defined in Vampire fiction and lores. While this is fun and can be exhilarating, yet such also bears with it the potential to permit oneself to become deluded into beginning to believe that one actually is... a real Vampire. This was a problem that Bela Lugosi suffered following his cinematic portrayal as the eponymous Count Dracula; he identified so completely with this fictional character that in death, he was buried in his Dracula costume. Many have likewise said the same of Max Schreck, following his earlier cinematic portrayal of the vampire in 1922's "Nosferatu."

Given these facts, in my opinion there can be no doubt but that those self-described as HLV (Human Living Vampires) fit this description exactly. After all, by every definition of the folkoric vampire, the very term itself is an irresolvable contradiction.


The only other definition for "Vampire" that I can find is that left us by history when the term, itself, was first written down... and far predating the "Vampire Panics" of the 17th through 19th Centuries, during which time all the aforementioned "Vampire" tales and lore were popularized and fictionalized into the vampire we know today.

When we go back in time more than 500 years before the term "Vampire" meant an undead blood-drinker, we find the term originally used as a nickname by an Eastern Orthodox Christian Priest who called himself: Father Vampire Insatiable (Pop Upir Likhyj), who worked as a master translator and linguist in the direct employ of Prince Vladimir, son of Yaroslav the Great, of Novgorod, Russia.

As pointed out so well by Dr. Bruce McClelland, author of "Vampires and their Slayers: A Cultural History of Killing the Undead," it is immediately apparent that what the term "Vampire" meant when first coined and employed is a far cry from what it came to mean centuries, thereafter.

Thus... before any of us can declare ourselves to be, or not to be, a "Vampire," oughtn't we first to investigate what the term actually meant when coined to define what it originally did? Until or unless we can... the question cannot be truthfully answered.


- Upir'






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Severus
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21:28:58 Dec 03 2010
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SangreNuestra,

Thank you for starting this thread, despite the context of some posts I and other have made I hope you where able to walk away with more than Junk information.


For the foreseeable future this is the last post I am going to make in the main forums and I do so for clarity Only.

Asetianism is a state of being not a group or cult. The fact that Aset Ka has chosen to adopt and publicly announce this as there ideology tracing there roots back to Isis, Atum, and Sekhmet does not mean that all Asetians are members of Aset Ka or walk around with the Asetian bibles in there hands.
To assume so is much like visiting a southern baptist church and saying that is the sum of the christian philosophy.

The goddess Sekmet had a cult in ancient times which devoted themselves to blood drinking during the 12th dynasty. That is in addition to the other well documented Ideologies like the transformation of the soul lead to the Egyptian alteration theories of vampirism based on text that was found pointing toward this being one of the cosmologies. this data points to there being real sources of information that go into the heart of what I and many believe to be the true nature of vampirism.

The vampire is not a Religious right of passage for any group or individual, It Is a state of evolved consciousness, it is about the soul.

The farther back in the Vampire legacy you go the more you see them referred to as Demons and other similar spirit like creatures. Reason being that Demons are not human they are spirits (as defined in most of the folklore) and thrive on spiritual energies found within humans not any physical digestive substance you would get from consuming blood or flesh. In short they feed on pranic energy... Life force... what ever you choose to call it. Vampirism is a PSI or Psionic condition.

On a personal note:
I am a Vampiric because I feed and sustain myself in this manner. There are many people like me and this realisation for many within our community grows with each passing day.
These people have spent years and is some cases decades struggling with real need and forces that reside within them to the point of desperation. Then they see this kind of information, they know what they see and feel within them and the understand. Examining it's characteristic and deconstructing it is a deeply personal journey, and in my opinion should not be subject to the scrutiny of others for scrutiny sack. If you dislike what a person has offered then address it but don't demand that the merit of what they feel inside be explain and put on trial in every public thread that is made.
Having to justify ourselves at every turn, to take everyone on a tour for the meaning of every word is an illogical process as it forces those you wish to learn from and debate with to back into the shadows, to leave in frustration...

Just as I do now.




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vampchica4
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23:58:45 Dec 03 2010
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PLEASE dont leave!!

ill miss your outlook. And I do agree with you. But dont let some scientist drive you out of sharing your knowledge, even if it isnt appreciated by everyone...

We're getting off the main topic of the thread.



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Silverhawk
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00:09:40 Dec 04 2010
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Oh Severus...now THIS is a most excellent contribution from your behalf...THIS is what I expected of you...not the previous trappings your exhorted against Upir's opinions. As I hope you understand me better, I hope to find you once again with all your fervor and heart in the Forum in days to come. Thank you much for sharing this, your passion and explanations for others to read and understand...it makes more sense than throwing down gauntlets and acting like verbal gladiators...^^

As many here may already percieve, I am not one to easilyl put under the thumb of identification...I am both logical and spiritual...I see both sides..at least...I try to...so if I have said anything or given the impression I do not understand the spiritual/psi side of these discussions, please do not assume such...I also seek out the logical, scientific side of things as well..:) It's just me.

Although not all psychic phenomenon...whether you speak of vampiric spiritualism or other things entirely...has legitimate "physical" proof...it is nonetheless an adherent interpretation that not all things known have physical proof...some are quantative and yet are proven indirectly....and as Vampirechica said so well at the beginning of this thread...some things must be taken and believed by Faith...in acknowledging the higher power that is relevant to us all...no matter what form it takes.

Blessed Be...^^ especially SangraNuestra...great thread...:)



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UpirLikhyj
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04:50:32 Dec 04 2010
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While aware that Sekhmet, the lion-headed goddess, was said in Egyptian mythology to drink blood, I have been unable to find anywhere that says her devotees did, as well. Could you please provide for us the source(s) for this statement? Thank you in advance.




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SangreNuestra
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06:08:05 Dec 04 2010
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Severus I do not wish for you to leave and I never had the intention to cause anyone to feel they have to hide or feel they have to defend themselves. You helped carry this thread into a serious and deep discussion. I have complete respect for you and everyone else that boldly posted and contributed to this thread.

I wanted it to be interesting and full of information because I have always been fascinated with Vampires and now with everything else that I have read about. Yes I did in fact know when I opened the thread that there would possibly be people disagreeing with each other, but because that is not something I am focused on I acknowledge it all, with balance.

You know, in my life I have found myself in the position where I was expected to choose because of influence, and never have because I wanted to be true to myself and honest with others. I have never been so affected by any one persons words that I have had to step back. Oh step back I have, to allow others to have their own opinions and their own word, but it's not in my nature to say you are wrong about your beliefs, or wrong about the way you feel. I apologize that this has made you feel you cannot post in the main Forum. I do apologize

I also never intended to get personal with any one on the thread, but I feel strongly about bringing you such discomfort. Even posting this is a bit personal for me. However, I do wish people to understand that I am grateful you have shared so much information.

It is just that we should be grateful, not only to those with whose views we may agree, but also to those who have expressed more superficial views; for these also contributed something, by developing before us the powers of thought.
Aristotle



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FallenStar
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09:33:17 Dec 04 2010
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Cabrion, to answer your question I speak of Eleonora Von Scwhartzenburg of Bohemia, (princess of Austria) she a witch who drank from the wolf. Who became Vampyric.



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dabbler
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14:57:47 Dec 04 2010
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Wouldn't the best route be just to refer to those who believe such as austians (sic)



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dabbler
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14:59:52 Dec 04 2010
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Just say "We Are Asetian, and we have practices that are a tad vampiric."

See. But I suspect that wouldn't be as flamboyant as saying "We are the OG Vampires"



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Cabrion
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17:42:26 Dec 04 2010
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(AN) oh.... k =)
that one i've never heard of



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dabbler
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17:45:06 Dec 04 2010
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I also make note that my last thread sought the same sources, and that it was like pulling teeth just to get anything.

Weather or not the info present here is valid or not at least it was put out there, rather then horded.



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TerminalVelocity
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17:58:46 Dec 04 2010
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Trying to define what a vampire is ,is like asking 300 different people what love is. You will get 300 different answers. Perhaps we could agree to that, especially in this day and age where words meanings are changed at the drop of a hat. It wasn't that long ago that gay meant you were happy, so there you go.

Also, reanimated corpses were not the only source of all vampire tales. Vampiric practices have been seen all over the world in different forms. In some cultures it is not permitted to write about them, or they don't want to share it with outsiders. Can you blame them. Even to just post your opinion in here is to get ripped to shreds,lol.



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dabbler
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18:24:07 Dec 04 2010
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and some of that "Ripping to shreds" happens to come from other factions that claim to be "More vamp then thou", so it is not just "Outsiders" that scrutinize such amended definitions.



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TerminalVelocity
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18:28:58 Dec 04 2010
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Agreed
=)



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SangreNuestra
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18:31:58 Dec 04 2010
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So far the only scrutinizing I see is among the community



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dabbler
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18:37:26 Dec 04 2010
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So if they cannot find acceptance among factions, then how do they expect to be accepted by outside parties, especially when their is reluctance to educate (even marginally) others. There is no summations of resources available for independent study either, not even a suggestion.

Though in honesty I applaud the info that was finally offered here.



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SangreNuestra
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18:48:15 Dec 04 2010
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I agree dabbler, I got more than I expected and I'm trying to read everything that was suggested as well. This is the Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory, where else would I have gone to educate myself, but from the people themselves



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TerminalVelocity
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18:50:52 Dec 04 2010
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Honestly I don't think outsiders care. It seems the only ones wrestling with the terminology are the vampires, or those who believe in some sort of vampirism.
Why can't they just agree to disagree ?
=)



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dabbler
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18:53:31 Dec 04 2010
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Some need others to validate their beliefs, and then still others want others to "Bow" to their assumed air of betterness.



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Cabrion
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18:59:14 Dec 04 2010
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But the air is cleaner of therrre Dabs, but nobody knowwws yet, tis why they must be forcibly removed from said dirty air



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TerminalVelocity
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19:09:41 Dec 04 2010
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Sad but true dab.

You guys are fun. I should have come in here sooner,lol
=)



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UpirLikhyj
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20:00:43 Dec 04 2010
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TerminalVelocity,

I certainly can appreciate your analogy re: love and vampires both being difficult to define. However, I don't know as the analogy holds upon further scrutiny. An emotion is purely subjective as also is taste: what one considers pleasant may not be so to another. An adjective, such as "gay," is less subjective and yet still subject to the views of such as perceived by others and with the natural changes that occur in vocabulary. However, a thing or a person and the defining characteristics of same are not inherently subjective. A dog is a dog, a horse is a horse, a particular race is defined by the characteristics that differentiate one from another, and so on. These are far less subjective and far more objectively defined and identified.

Thus, while the "vampire" might indeed find its definitions change through time, much as has the word "gay," yet we should be able to trace the word back etymologically to understand what it meant at the time and who specifically it defined. Only then, in my view, will we have found the true "vampire" of history.

Now, as regards those myriad other "beasties" that are lumped in as various forms of "vampire" in world history, are they not all defined as such based on the fictionalized characteristics found in modern pop-culture iconography (blood-drinking, fanged, "undead" revenants)? If so (and there can be no doubt but that they are)... then we are judging ancient myths and lore not based on the original definition of "vampire" but only on the de-evolution of the term as understood only in the past couple hundred years.

That is akin to using the modern definition of the word "gay" and then applying that definition of being homosexual to every instance in past literature where someone is described as being "gay"... rather than correctly realizing that was is being described is someone who is happy and merry and having fun, as the term used to mean back when. Another example, were we to use our current understanding of the term, the popular phrase "The Gay Nineties" would have it seem that the 1890s were a time of mass outings-from-the-closet of homosexuals when this is not at all what the phrase meant at that time.

In the same way, looking for fanged blood-sucking revenants throughout the past and in other ancient cultures instead of first seeking to understand what the term "vampire" actually meant when first coined and popularized in the 11th and 12th Centuries in Slavic Lands... where no blood-sucking revenants were being reported... has us all, in my view, committing an incredibly foolish intellectual faux pas.


- Upir'







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Oceanne
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15:40:21 Dec 05 2010
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"Weather or not the info present here is valid or not at least it was put out there, rather then horded. "

You better believe it Dab.I mean,isnt that the whole idea of a database in the fist place?... to supply information for others so they can decide what it is THEY want to believe or subscribe to? There are always the pros and cons to a subject.It is always a good thing to bring any and all info to the table so we can all look at it and perhaps even debate it.I dont care whether one believes they can prove Einstein wrong or not.If he IS wrong,the information should still be made available.And in turn,so should theirs.
The subject of Vampires is a passionate and ambiguous one.People are going to get heated at times.But we have to push through that in order to make any progress in these disscussions,otherwise it just goes round and round.
EVERYONE'S thoughts,opinions and gathered information is not only needed,but in my eyes,appreciated.



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Silverhawk
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17:55:51 Dec 05 2010
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I absolutely concur with you Oceanne. I've found in my short time on this forum that much of one side or the other is shown...and so very rarely does the conversation become a melting pot as this has done so well. Perhaps it has occurred because it has simply needed to happen...finally...:)



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UpirLikhyj
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08:37:46 Dec 11 2010
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The above post provides in my view a glowing exemplar of the perfect "I Am a Vampire" statement as so often found here. In it we find the three prime ingredients for just about all such:

1. State your claim boldly and emphatically,
2. Meticulously avoid providing with the claim any logical argument for your claim or any evidences or reasons for such
3. Include with your claim a pre-emptive attack against anyone who might dare to question your claim so as to hopefully discourage anyone from doing so.


And, btw, are not these same key strategies employed in just about every fraudulent claim ever made?

Perhaps one of the most well-known of these is that epitomized in the wonderful children's morality play: "The Emperor's New Clothes" wherein the Emperor declares himself handsomely dressed and makes clear that only an ignorant fool would dare to declare him otherwise... as he parades about completely nude.


- Upir'



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Sovereign
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16:10:26 Dec 11 2010
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just as an investigator attempts to find the reasoning behind a serial killer rampage you attempt to solve the puzzle of insanity with logic. that is why you fail to see beyond the shadow known as the veil and see into the darkness. that is why you fail to see those within your own circle. while vampires like doru and severus are kind enough to chat with you even train and educate you you fail to see that they do so only because they wish to live among you. i share no such desire and their actions sicken me. in the end they will die trying to defend you from their own kind. a fate they deserve no doubt. our legions have been dormant far to long but now your end is near.



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UpirLikhyj
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16:44:31 Dec 11 2010
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Now there is a possibility I had not seriously considered. Perhaps you are correct that such claims as you make are not the result of con-artistry and fraud perpetrated for the purposes of narcissistic self-promotion but are, instead, hallmark evidences of insanity.

If so, know well that I do not "attempt to solve the puzzle of insanity" but to simply expose it for what it is. And if truly this is insanity in some cases, then thank you for so admirably revealing it as such and accomplishing this task for me.




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MooniePie
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16:57:06 Dec 11 2010
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Sovereign,

Your elaborate role-playing and attempts at 'proving' what you think you are, are just digs at people. And that is not called for.

If you have nothing relevant to say on a topic, it's probably best you don't share it.



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FallenStar
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17:28:49 Dec 11 2010
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The Sov. Ring is probably right though, I think its best to sit that one out and watch the stupid folks. Sitting back on yon high place with a glass of red saying things like "Told you so"...



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MooniePie
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17:42:58 Dec 11 2010
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AlieNation,

Do not think you are exempt from making flaming posts and name calling.



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Doru
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21:53:23 Dec 11 2010
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The thread is "Are you a Vampire?", not "How we condemn those who answer the thread". Regardless of your beliefs, I am a vampire and your beliefs cannot change what I am. *smiles*



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UpirLikhyj
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01:20:28 Dec 12 2010
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Doru, where has anyone here been "condemned" for claiming to be a vampire?

Instead, all I find are those claiming to be vampires condemning as "ignorant" and "arrogant," etc., anyone who questions or doubts such claims.



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FallenStar
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18:36:31 Dec 12 2010
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Sire M.Pie, I merely meant that never in the History of the world has the existence of "otherkin" been so openly discussed and that conflict is evident. One only has to look at around the world at korea, wikileaks, food costs, political strife, the imminent collapse of the euro, 2012, solar flares, the distrust of banks and institutions.All this tension around the world is tangible and perhaps just one pin prick could burst the bubble. At this very juncture the Vampire chooses to come forth openly.
I would be interested if Vampires think this is coincidence?



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UpirLikhyj
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16:48:20 Dec 13 2010
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AN, while indeed there is much strife in the world, yet when one looks at any point in history, recent or not so recent, strife and turmoil and unrest and war can be found.

Now... the one area of upheaval you mentioned that is not quite so routine is the economic state of the world. Here, indeed, it would seem we are all receiving a front-row seat education in how destructive and ultimately catastrophic is our current world monetary system in which all such is controlled and being deliberately manipulated by central banks and their shadowy masters (those who govern and mandate to the BIS and IMF, in particular), none of whom are elected or made responsible by or to anyone for the manner in which they deliberately create, prop up, and destroy economies worldwide... at will.

And while the above paragraph is, indeed, related to the true Vampire of history... or rather, to his enemies... yet I don't understand your mention of vampires "openly declaring themselves" at this point in history as I know of no such who have so openly announced their presence. Perhaps you could elucidate this statement for all of us a bit further.

Thanks,

- Upir'




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UpirLikhyj
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16:51:16 Dec 13 2010
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AN, one of the disadvantages of this forum is in being unable to view prior entries so as to correctly refer and/or quote from them. Your exact statement (if now memory serves) was that vampires have chosen to ... "come forth openly." And it was to this that I addressed my question in the last post here.

How have vampires "come forth openly"?



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FallenStar
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17:42:28 Dec 13 2010
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Upir, this seems a little disingenuous. Having read this and many other related threads (as I know you have) Not to mention a dozen profiles. Vampires are no longer hiding, or rather hiding in plain sight. Many here have said who they are and the some have even mention the groups and councils they sit with. Some are enforcers some are more religious but to suggest (at this juncture) they hide is non-sense.
You know of whom I speak so why should I spell them out, that is a matter for them. The obvious question is why now?



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UpirLikhyj
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18:32:30 Dec 13 2010
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AN, again with the sniping remarks rather than simply answering the question.

There is nothing "disingenuous" about my question regarding what you meant by vampires coming out openly. Did you mean "coming out" as the subject has in recent movies and the media attention such have engendered? Did you mean news events of which I and others might, perchance, have been unaware? Did you mean perhaps via some scientific or medical discovery that legitimizes vampirism in some new or even old way that would, thus, have vampires finally "coming out openly" in having us realize they are real?

Or do you simply refer to VR where (as we have all abundantly seen) anyone and everyone can anonymously claim anything and everything imaginable, almost none of which can be taken seriously without greater evidence or verification, of which none is ever provided?

Again... what do you mean by vampires "coming out openly"?


- Upir'




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Silverhawk
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12:23:56 Dec 14 2010
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I believe what AN is saying in his generalized statement (correct me if I'm wrong), is that vampires, regardless of their personal ideology (enforcers vs religious, etc.) are coming forth and discussing their differences and making basic, internal societal references that are otherwise and most often kept clear of such threads for discussion in the open. (ex: Asetians)

However, to link the idea of conspiracy theory to a massive movement of "true" vampires making themselves known during a time of world, economic unrest is a bit much. As it is, the whole of that thought is purely conjecture.



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FallenStar
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15:23:41 Dec 14 2010
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Upir, I was not sniping I was merely pointing out that twenty years ago Vampires did not "exist" and now societies are everywhere.Not just on VR look up Seattle, London or Berlin Vamps.
Silverhawk is perfectly correct in clarification and one Bows with thanks for the frank answer that the two are unrelated.
I am not so sure, but yes, perhaps it is just coincidence.



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UpirLikhyj
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16:56:24 Dec 14 2010
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AN, of course you were sniping. But I am glad that thanks to Silverhawk, you have deigned to answer the question. And while I don't know as I agree with it given that vampires and interest in them have been around and quite popular for many decades, yet I at least now better understand your viewpoint.

The difference today in my view is that while previously only an extremely small segment of the population considered themselves "vampires," now thanks to the many modern re-inventions of the term (e.g., HLV, Aset-Ka), anyone and everyone is free to claim identity as a "vampire" whether such be for drinking a bit of blood every now and then, aligning themselves with any of a growing number of "vampire" religions or societies, fancying themselves to be psychic "feeders," or simply for being social outcasts and, thus, thinking that identifying with the "vampire" (the ultimate social outcast) will make them somehow counter-culture "kewl." (I strongly suspect that "Sovereign" falls decidely well within this latter category.)

To my view, at least, this speaks far more to our dangerously ignorant and vain-glorious Western culture than it does to world events as a whole.


- Upir'



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FallenStar
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05:02:45 Dec 15 2010
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Oh dear, I am a free lance Vamp hence my posts. Sometimes they are a little naughty but not really flaming. I think Vamp societies try and try to get a little more open and get this sort of thing in response...
" aligning themselves with any of a growing number of "vampire" religions or societies, fancying themselves... "
If you really think these posts are just a fancy and we are sniping at you. Firstly, you are paranoid, and secondly, you are sadly misinformed about your own place in this world. My point was a valid one. Whether these modern day 'revelations' are coincidence or not. The fact you have already made your mind up that only you know the true path is astonishing.That only you have investigated the correct evidence.That only you have the knowlege to make the correct deductions smacks of imperial hubris.Anyway, try to stand back and have a think about it. Do you really think Vampire societies controlling vast wealth care?



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UpirLikhyj
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06:30:58 Dec 15 2010
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AN... You (not anyone else) called me "disingenuous" for simply asking what you meant by vampires "com(ing) forth openly." Apparently even such inoffensive questions warrant from you accusatory responses. I hardly feel I am the one acting "paranoid."

Now... back to the subject at hand, if that's okay... I much prefer a "free-lance" vampire to those clamoring to join or otherwise affiliate with the latest vampire group du jour. Yesterday it was Strigoi VII (did I get the number right?) that was all the rage. Then it as the Vampire Temple with it's Vampire Bible and today it's Aset-Ka with the Asetian Bible. Tomorrow... who knows?

Seems to me, any true Vampiric path would not so faddishly self-promote and "proselytize" via organized religious or philosophical groups.



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ContessaIsabella
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07:22:21 Dec 15 2010
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Well you were either being obtuse or disingenous as you just realed off some of the groups I spoke of;

....."Yesterday it was Strigoi VII (did I get the number right?) that was all the rage. Then it as the Vampire Temple with it's Vampire Bible and today it's Aset-Ka with the Asetian Bible"

Not to mention Silverhawk knew what I meant, anyway I will not get into semantics. Your view is clear, we are dellusional and you few have the valid information. Thats ok, but your prelonged presence indicates your own doubt. My own view? most are blind monkeys being readied for the slaughter. Who knows, we will see, after all I am really quite batty !



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Dragonrouge
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10:34:22 Dec 15 2010
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Are you a vampire?

Yes, if you perceive that as a metaphor.
I don`t drink blood and I don`t suck energy from creatures.I am skeptical about the modern concepts of so called "sanguinarian" and "psychic" vampires. There are energies hard to perceived by our five known senses, but they are even harder to manipulate.



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Doru
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15:00:37 Dec 15 2010
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With the word “Vampire” being used so liberal and so often, vampires can come out in the open with minimal condemnation. The societies of ancient can openly practice without the fears of the past and those who fear the consequences of their practices can only watch and mumble words that fall on deaf ears. *smiles*



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UpirLikhyj
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15:19:22 Dec 15 2010
Read 1,463 times

Talk about sucker punching from the sidelines, where is this attack by you coming from, "GreenKnight"?

I can't find a single previous entry by you anywhere in this entire forum thread (unless you are AN or Doru or Severus masquerading under a different name) and now you suddenly leap into the fray flailing insults about calling me "obtuse" and "disingenuous" for no apparent reason as you give no explanation for such derrogatory labels, all while irrationally claiming to have previously mentioned here the groups I mentioned in my last entry.

Please help us all understand how you could have possibly made mention of such groups previously in this thread when this is your first entry here. And even had you previously mentioned them here in some miraculous fashion, how does my mentioning them again make me guilty of being either obtuse or disingenuous?

And where... anywhere... have I called you or any other member "delusional"? Either answer these questions or admit by your inability to do so that this latest



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UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
15:21:31 Dec 15 2010
Read 1,460 times

Talk about sucker punching from the sidelines, where is this attack by you coming from, "GreenKnight"?

I can't find a single previous entry by you anywhere in this entire forum thread (unless you are AN or Doru or Severus masquerading under a different name) and now you suddenly leap into the fray flailing insults about calling me "obtuse" and "disingenuous" for no apparent reason as you give no explanation for such derrogatory labels, all while irrationally claiming to have previously mentioned here the groups I mentioned in my last entry.

Please help us all understand how you could have possibly made mention of such groups previously in this thread when this is your first entry here. And even had you previously mentioned them here in some miraculous fashion, how does my mentioning them again make me guilty of being either obtuse or disingenuous?

And where... anywhere... have I called you or any other member "delusional"? Either answer these questions or admit by your inability to do so that this latest ad homimem-laden round of illogic is exactly that.

Now... may we please back to the topic or does anyone else feel the need to throw a tantrum at me, too?


- Upir'



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Doru
Doru
Premiere Sire (128)
Posts: 1,197
Honor: 346
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
15:36:51 Dec 15 2010
Read 1,456 times

Upir,

I only have "one" profile and would not want another to take any condemnation for any remarks I make in this thread.

Doru



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UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
15:43:19 Dec 15 2010
Read 1,453 times

Doru, I fully agree with you on that. And I hope you understood that I was not accusing you, at all. I stated that as the only possible option for GreenKnight claiming to have previously mentioned groups here when this was his/her first post in this forum topic.



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Doru
Doru
Premiere Sire (128)
Posts: 1,197
Honor: 346
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 18 years.
15:52:43 Dec 15 2010
Read 1,447 times

Upir,

Nonetheless, I do see his points because of your cynical and condeming comments of others in this thread. If you don't agree, just look at your comments.

Doru



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UpirLikhyj
UpirLikhyj

No Longer Registered
16:15:26 Dec 15 2010
Read 1,445 times

Doru, we all know well that in the previous "Are You a Vampire?" thread, you and Severus accused myself and others here of being "ignorant" and "arrogant." (I am happy to quote direcftly from that closed thread if you feel the need to have me do so... or others can go read it all for themselves.)

And the entries by both of you is where all of this started. I called you on the carpet for that, then... and if and when others resort to ad hominem illogic in hurling insults as well (as has GreenKnight here most recently), then such illogic is going to be pointed out by me and others, too.

However, pointing out and calling others on the carpet for hurling insults and condemnations is not the same as being insulting and condemning... as you have again begun to be now.

I was thoughtful and considerate of you in my last entry, even though I had said nothing offensive to you. Yet, I could see how such might have been misunderstood and so I responded in agreement with you. You have chosen to take that olive branch and hurled it back yet again. That is your choice. However, it is not I who has been condemning or insulting in either this latest exchange or in previous ones here any more than I was just now with GreenKnight after his unprovoked and illogical attack.

Now... can we return this thread back to its topic? And if you still wish to continue this discussion, you are welcome to message me direct and we can hash this out all you like.


- Upir'







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MooniePie
MooniePie
Royal Sire (228)
Posts: 1,604
Honor: 75
[ Give / Take ]
Vampire Rave member for 21 years.
20:15:57 Dec 15 2010
Read 1,429 times

This thread has turned into constant bickering.
I am closing this. Please wait 30 days to revisit the topic.



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• • • • THIS THREAD IS CLOSED • • • •
•  Closed by MooniePie on Dec 15 2010  •

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